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Adrala, good post...
HerculesSAS
Member Posts: 1,272
www.mortalonline.com/forums/30566-how-mo-developed.html
Just points out things I said a long, long time ago.
Comments
I saw that yesterday, surprised they did not delete it. Pretty good questions indeed.
They did not have to develop an engine from the ground.
*** But we had to make each game mechanic and feature from scratch. Other studios has engine programmers and game mechanic programmers, compare it to us who bought the engine and only has game mechanic programmers.
They did not have to handmake every sq. meter of the terrain since Grome is able of creating believable terrain that needs just a bit of polishing afterwards.
*** You still have to create the terrain and go through the whole export pipeline to make it work in Unreal. It's not a one click job.
They did not have to create the network code since it was developed by Epic China.
But we had to extend and add all Mortal Online features to the system and make it work.
They did not have to develop a sofistacate server cluster ala EvE...
-snip-
****
And this: (FragNTag)I will give you a hint from experience. Purchasing a premade engine will save a development team zero time unless they have been working with it before hand. It just changes the work from actually programming to trying to figure out why it does not work like you want it to.
And finally this! ;o): Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny Lindberg
We already know what we've done right and wrong, all we can do now is make our best to remedy the situation. End Quote.
And still many people support you. Don't forget that, NEVER
Support! Here comes more!
*pushing support @ SV* lol
You fail at quoting
Well. I was just doing the old copy/paste from MOFO you know! ^^
OMG!
Why arent you banned?
Yeah I asked few questions and I got answers. It wasnt that hard as you see. No need to leak beta vids, bash the CEO and his father, etc. ^^
OMG!
Why arent you banned?
Yeah I asked few questions and I got answers. It wasnt that hard as you see. No need to leak beta vids, bash the CEO and his father, etc. ^^
I am not bashing anybody, but I will question their ethics and morals if they are trying to lie when selling a product. And when we debate why MO is failing so miserably (which you seem to see as well), the talk of competence, past experience, and how they even got started does come up from time to time.
As for the ban well... I only post during work hours, when I'm home it's "me" time so I don't bother coming here. I still have a kid at home so I do have other responsiblities
Anyway, glad to see that you now find it apparent that with all this time, they could have worked on the core features (ie, combat and maybe crafting), but instead kept introducing fluff and junk that is all unpolished and broken. I wish you had made the point months ago when I did and supported me though, maybe SV would be focusing more on that than taking all that pats on the back and going forward with horrible ideas. But again, that's because they have a management team that has no idea what they are doing.
OMG!
Why arent you banned?
Yeah I asked few questions and I got answers. It wasnt that hard as you see. No need to leak beta vids, bash the CEO and his father, etc. ^^
I am not bashing anybody, but I will question their ethics and morals if they are trying to lie when selling a product. And when we debate why MO is failing so miserably (which you seem to see as well), the talk of competence, past experience, and how they even got started does come up from time to time.
As for the ban well... I only post during work hours, when I'm home it's "me" time so I don't bother coming here. I still have a kid at home so I do have other responsiblities
Anyway, glad to see that you now find it apparent that with all this time, they could have worked on the core features (ie, combat and maybe crafting), but instead kept introducing fluff and junk that is all unpolished and broken. I wish you had made the point months ago when I did and supported me though, maybe SV would be focusing more on that than taking all that pats on the back and going forward with horrible ideas. But again, that's because they have a management team that has no idea what they are doing.
Herc, I still have no evidence that they lied about anything intentionally. If anything doesn't make it in game that they said would be in game, I don't think it's because they lied, but because of misplanning and being unable to implement everything they intended. The boxes went out as they said, which I'm sure you know by now. They talked their game up a lot, but what brand new company wouldn't be excited and proud of something they created?
I agree that SV has some management issues. Henrik is an entrepreneur, not a CEO, in my opinion. Most entrepreneurs don't make good CEOs, as the mindset of an entrepreneur is often very different from one of a successful CEO. In fact, entrepreneurial minds are quite the opposite of management/organizational ones (impetuous, loose, conceptual vs. reliable, structured, procedural). In other words, Henrik should have started up the company and elected someone else to take the role of CEO, while he remained the "visionary" responsible for the direction of the game, but not the management of the company.
OMG!
Why arent you banned?
Yeah I asked few questions and I got answers. It wasnt that hard as you see. No need to leak beta vids, bash the CEO and his father, etc. ^^
I am not bashing anybody, but I will question their ethics and morals if they are trying to lie when selling a product. And when we debate why MO is failing so miserably (which you seem to see as well), the talk of competence, past experience, and how they even got started does come up from time to time.
As for the ban well... I only post during work hours, when I'm home it's "me" time so I don't bother coming here. I still have a kid at home so I do have other responsiblities
Anyway, glad to see that you now find it apparent that with all this time, they could have worked on the core features (ie, combat and maybe crafting), but instead kept introducing fluff and junk that is all unpolished and broken. I wish you had made the point months ago when I did and supported me though, maybe SV would be focusing more on that than taking all that pats on the back and going forward with horrible ideas. But again, that's because they have a management team that has no idea what they are doing.
Herc, I still have no evidence that they lied about anything intentionally. If anything doesn't make it in game that they said would be in game, I don't think it's because they lied, but because of misplanning and being unable to implement everything they intended. The boxes went out as they said, which I'm sure you know by now. They talked their game up a lot, but what brand new company wouldn't be excited and proud of something they created?
I agree that SV has some management issues. Henrik is an entrepreneur, not a CEO, in my opinion. Most entrepreneurs don't make good CEOs, as the mindset of an entrepreneur is often very different from one of a successful CEO. In fact, entrepreneurial minds are quite the opposite of management/organizational ones (impetuous, loose, conceptual vs. reliable, structured, procedural). In other words, Henrik should have started up the company and elected someone else to take the role of CEO, while he remained the "visionary" responsible for the direction of the game, but not the management of the company.
There were more than a handful of lies, specially when I talked to Henrik myself and he told me that theivery was done, the environment was done, all the systems were completed and just "waiting on Epic" to go into the game.
As we know now, theivery was posted on the development blog as being developed by Emil Jones currently. Same thing with a lot of the environment (note the new jungle or cave system, etc). The same goes along with the heaps of BS about "epic monsters" and "advanced AI" that was espoused on IRC and subsequently leaked to the web. They also hinted at the notion that Epic Games was an 'investor' in Star Vault, and was working actively to get them to launch. Look at the posts on the forums -- people STILL believe this, and that's because Henrik continually said things to that affect in IRC on a regular basis.
Sorry, but I find those items as lies, meant to push a view of the game that is not looked at negatively. Throwing around Epic as a big hitter makes people think that there's a real big investment here, a game that is going to go right because they have all the backing of one of the biggest game developers out there. We know now, and have for a while, that Epic provides SV with technical support. That's about it. The systems have been largely undeveloped, and are just now going into the game. I've maintained all along that the best asset MO has is its art team, but it's nothing amazing compared to modern day MMOs. It's just the best SV has right now. And for that, I think a lot of the models and things are already built and waiting to go in, it's just that the server issues are so severe they can't handle having more than 5 mobs in the entire game.
I think if you want to be an optimist, feel free. I started questioning the behavior of Star Vault long before they banned me. People of course, forget that and think I'm just saying these things because of that. Read the posts folks, and read the dates. I called them on this stuff a long while ago, and if you expect miracles, then I feel bad for you. This game is going to be so problematic and trouble filled that it will be basically unplayable. People have problem with sync issues when there are barely 100 people online. Best of luck when the rest of the 10k that preordered try to get on. It's going to be a nightmare.
As for Henrik well... it's like any kid who has a rich dad and thinks he can "do something". I think of him as Hulk Hogan's kid, who thought he knew how to race cars, and wound up being the worst race car driver in the world. He has no experience, no knowledge, and just wanted to play UO again so badly that he took money to "make UO". Now that it's almost time for launch, and the money has run out well... it shows what the difference between experience is, and lack of experience is.
well with regards to your Henrik paragraph I do think he did have a good vision of what a sandbox pvp mmo should be like
however he did not clearly have enough money to make his vision a reality and the SV team clearly does not have the man power to develop the game they envisioned its just a big magnitude of a game
I will give an example of how many people takes to make a polished game like Aion, it may not be everyones game but look at how many people we're involved in its development, NCsoft had good lord over 120 people involved in Aion's development
I mean compare it with SV's team and the vision they proposed to the MMO community its just an impossibility for them to do it with their limited resources and non existent experience
NCsoft might not be a visionary like Henrik and SV but they have the experience when it comes to developing MMO's while SV does not
right now SV is struggling to release the game and its core functions are not even working properly, that should be an indication for people to open their eyes and see why this game will never have a good launch
Hope another company buys them out to continue development, but they must have the same vision. A well established company with more money would probably make MO a great success, but while SV is making it, running out of money, its probably going to be a disaster for months and months until it dies, but what do I know.
Hope another company buys them out to continue development, but they must have the same vision. A well established company with more money would probably make MO a great success, but while SV is making it, running out of money, its probably going to be a disaster for months and months until it dies, but what do I know.
The sad truth is no one wants to risk tens of millions of dollars on a niche pvp centric open sandbox type game, while there is a real market for this niche type there needs to be alot of thought that should be placed into development on such a game so that it continues subscription retention after initial box sales has passed
things like pvp balancing, griefing balancing, item balancing, non exploitable flagging mechanics, crafting economy mechanics, AI balancing, and so much more
this is a massive undertaking that I have yet to see a single company succeed in, while one company may excel in a few certain aspects of balancing such as gameplay and AI, they would often fail in the class balancing part when it comes to pvp
right now I am not convinced that SV all at the same time:
add content like the ones they said will be in the game ( this meaning the massive things like one time epic npc's, npc population, quest npcs, new buildings, underground dungeons, new landmass )
fix existing bugs
fix bugs that will come with their patch
fix game mechanics
sorry but I am realistic it's just too huge for the scope of SV and they have practically no experience in developing and maintaining an MMO
the poor management is starting to remind me of Sigil who developed Vanguard: Saga of Heroes remember that blunder? where Brad McQuaid and Co. screwed up tens of millions of dollars in development and they never had a functional game for Microsoft and when Vanguard launched it was soo unstable, bugged, and broken most of the players left and never came back
Vanguard's reputation never recovered due to this, SV has already started to bite on more than they can chew if they launch with a broken game it will be Vanguard all over again
Hope another company buys them out to continue development, but they must have the same vision. A well established company with more money would probably make MO a great success, but while SV is making it, running out of money, its probably going to be a disaster for months and months until it dies, but what do I know.
The sad truth is no one wants to risk tens of millions of dollars on a niche pvp centric open sandbox type game, while there is a real market for this niche type there needs to be alot of thought that should be placed into development on such a game so that it continues subscription retention after initial box sales has passed
things like pvp balancing, griefing balancing, item balancing, non exploitable flagging mechanics, crafting economy mechanics, AI balancing, and so much more
this is a massive undertaking that I have yet to see a single company succeed in, while one company may excel in a few certain aspects of balancing such as gameplay and AI, they would often fail in the class balancing part when it comes to pvp
right now I am not convinced that SV all at the same time:
add content like the ones they said will be in the game ( this meaning the massive things like one time epic npc's, npc population, quest npcs, new buildings, underground dungeons, new landmass )
fix existing bugs
fix bugs that will come with their patch
fix game mechanics
sorry but I am realistic it's just too huge for the scope of SV and they have practically no experience in developing and maintaining an MMO
the poor management is starting to remind me of Sigil who developed Vanguard: Saga of Heroes remember that blunder? where Brad McQuaid and Co. screwed up tens of millions of dollars in development and they never had a functional game for Microsoft and when Vanguard launched it was soo unstable, bugged, and broken most of the players left and never came back
Vanguard's reputation never recovered due to this, SV has already started to bite on more than they can chew if they launch with a broken game it will be Vanguard all over again
Will you please stop using bold italic letters for emphasis it's bloody annoying to read like that!