Mortal Online: CEO Interview

Stradden · January 2010

The team from mortal Online has been quiet as of late, but CEO Henrik Nyström did take the time to answer a few of Garrett Fuller's questions about the game.

MMORPG.com:

Can you give us an update on Mortal Online? Readers have wanted to know the status. Things have been dark for a while.

Henrik Nyström:

We are currently in beta, all the core features planned for release are in place for testing and tweaking and we've even managed to add some we didn't think we'd have time for until after launch. At the same time there's constant polishing and balancing going on and there's a lot to do in very little time! Recently we had to take a break for the Christmas holidays and this was right after a major patch that unfortunately introduced a lot of new bugs. Bad planning you might say but we felt we had to take the risk as we really needed to test all the new stuff. It didn't turn out well, and to our frustration the game had to stay in that shape before we got back to fix it. Since we are a very small team that has been working nonstop for quite some time now, we just had to get some days off on the holidays, spending time with friends and families. As there will be no rest after release either we really had to charge our batteries if only for a week or two.

Read the CEO Interview.

akathos · January 2010

Theres always going to be haters with an MMO and also opposites attract and thus fan boys will defend, however i am neither just fancied commenting on this brief interview. I think if there is truth in what they say, fair play to them, we all need rest to re-charge. Good luck to their new release

LiquidWolf · January 2010

I've seen a number of the game-information responses on the forums, but it's nice to see they still remain consistent in their direction. Honestly, i'm not sure i've seen very many MMOs with developers who communicate and share their ideas with the company like Star Vault does.

The patch before Winter Holidays was a bit sketchy, but once they got back things seemed to have made a large turn around... only the occasional bugging Razerback (Massive Boar) moving at warp speed to kill you...

Here are the most recent patch notes:

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/30519-patch-notes-v-0-12-16-18-january-18th.html

For more explanation on nudity, Mats Person has a good post here:

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/19214-dev-response-nudity-nudity-toggle-debate-5.html#post445206

For information on the flagging system, at least when it was being designed, you can check out this PDF:

http://www.mortalonline.com/files/flagging/MO_Flagging.pdf

Overall their direction is fairly obvious, and their communication top-notch... I've had too many other MMO's pull blinds over my eyes, so this is a good change.

Proson · January 2010

Nice, looking forward to release

HerculesSAS · January 2010

A quick perusal of the MO forums will show the discontent of the players. Right now, the vast majority of the players feel the game is not ready for launch, including both fanboys of the game, and haters of the game. With the paid beta, sync issues, mediocre combat and mediocre crafting well... I don't see longevity in this game.

I think the game will be another Dark and Light, released far before it's done, and far too buggy to play. People playing in small numbers seem to have no issue, but being in a 'sandbox' world without any 'sandbox' tools to affect that world will not provide a healthy release for players. And with the paid beta, the people who were already interested in the game are basically already a part of it.

Much as I'd like to say good luck, I have played the game enough to know that the mismanagement of the game, lack of focus and scattered design, along with the ability to hack the game (worse than Darkfall, because it's easier) and the problems with sync and lag well... it's gonna bomb. But to those that are fans well... step right up and play, I don't think you'll be there long either because the population will be dwindling fast.

NasirJ · January 2010

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

A quick perusal of the MO forums will show the discontent of the players. Right now, the vast majority of the players feel the game is not ready for launch, including both fanboys of the game, and haters of the game. With the paid beta, sync issues, mediocre combat and mediocre crafting well... I don't see longevity in this game.

From what I have seen so far on the forums (march 09 reg) everyone seems to be pretty content waiting for the launch. There has been a few people who has publicly quit which is normal but what your are saying is stretching the truth to an extreme. The beta forums is filled with balancing questions and general tester feedback nothing out of the norm.

I think the game will be another Dark and Light, released far before it's done, and far too buggy to play. People playing in small numbers seem to have no issue, but being in a 'sandbox' world without any 'sandbox' tools to affect that world will not provide a healthy release for players.

You couldn't be farther from the truth. What tools are missing? You can craft houses, armor, weapons, and numerous add-ons like stables to keep your horses. That sounds like tools to me. Which ones are you talking about? Last time I checked the skill book vendors had a nice variety of books to learn.

And with the paid beta, the people who were already interested in the game are basically already a part of it. So you are saying there is no new people joining the game? I purchased it a few days before the stress test, and during the stress test a few people I came across actually bought the game after they seen it from stress testing. So again are you just pulling these things out of the air?

Much as I'd like to say good luck, I have played the game enough to know that the mismanagement of the game, lack of focus and scattered design, along with the ability to hack the game (worse than Darkfall, because it's easier) and the problems with sync and lag well... it's gonna bomb. But to those that are fans well... step right up and play, I don't think you'll be there long either because the population will be dwindling fast. I have yet to see any types of hacks, although I have not been everywhere yet so I suppose it could be reds that use em. If you believe the game will bomb then fine, move along, let other people decide for themselves when the open beta comes.

Yamota · January 2010

Funny how they justify having full nudity with "you should be able to handle it" and "nudity does not always imply sex".

Funny because Sweden was the country that first comersialised porn. The so called "Swedish Sin".

Anyway, this game will probably tank, not because of nudity, or rather because the game simply is far, far from being in released state.

HerculesSAS · January 2010

Originally posted by Nasir64
From what I have seen so far on the forums (march 09 reg) everyone seems to be pretty content waiting for the launch. There has been a few people who has publicly quit which is normal but what your are saying is stretching the truth to an extreme. The beta forums is filled with balancing questions and general tester feedback nothing out of the norm.

There's more than a little evidence to that point... most people think the game is going to be delayed (out of hope), or hope it's going to be delayed outright. Here you go:

http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/30442-two-weeks-untill-release.html
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/30524-if-they-release-broken-unplayable.html -- Apparently about 50% of people will pay for the game even if it's totally broken.
http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/29582-should-st-delay-mo-beyond-30-days.html -- 88% of people in this poll want it delayed.

You couldn't be farther from the truth. What tools are missing? You can craft houses, armor, weapons, and numerous add-ons like stables to keep your horses. That sounds like tools to me. Which ones are you talking about? Last time I checked the skill book vendors had a nice variety of books to learn.

How do you affect the world? Building a house has no meaning. Winning a battle has no meaning. Crafting is a means to an end for PvP but basically, that's about it. You can't craft things that make the world any different. Sandbox means you create your own content, but the tools are in place to do it. I always look back to UO here, because that's the comparison made by Star Vault. UO had the ability to set up vendors, create furniture, decorate your house, create a library, wear an orc helm and go live amongst the orcs, etc. You could poison an apple and give it to somebody as a gift. You could be a thief that stole town sigils for faction warfare. Or you could do the PvP thing too, which is obviously where I spent all my time.

So you are saying there is no new people joining the game? I purchased it a few days before the stress test, and during the stress test a few people I came across actually bought the game after they seen it from stress testing. So again are you just pulling these things out of the air?

No, and I don't have any hard numbers for it either -- but my gut instinct tells me that with all the publicized problems of the game, and the fact they had a paid beta... the vast majority of people that were interested have already got their copy. Granted, it doesn't mean that others won't buy in, but it won't be a real big influx of additional subscriptions or box sales at launch. Though I'll put the caveat, that I'm just guessing. Perhaps people are bigger suckers than I think.

I have yet to see any types of hacks, although I have not been everywhere yet so I suppose it could be reds that use em. If you believe the game will bomb then fine, move along, let other people decide for themselves when the open beta comes.

I could post here on how to hack -- it would literally take an average user a matter of minutes to do -- but it's against the TOS. Let's just say it's ridiculously easy because of the way they designed the game. You'll find out for yourself when the game launches, and since people are so bored with the content, getting banned won't be a really big issue.

NasirJ · January 2010

How do you affect the world? Building a house has no meaning. Winning a battle has no meaning. Crafting is a means to an end for PvP but basically, that's about it. You can't craft things that make the world any different. Sandbox means you create your own content, but the tools are in place to do it. I always look back to UO here, because that's the comparison made by Star Vault. UO had the ability to set up vendors, create furniture, decorate your house, create a library, wear an orc helm and go live amongst the orcs, etc. You could poison an apple and give it to somebody as a gift. You could be a thief that stole town sigils for faction warfare. Or you could do the PvP thing too, which is obviously where I spent all my time.

This makes no sense at all because 90% of the stuff you mentioned has the basic tools to be implemented. You want a chair ... i mean come on your grasping at air now. If they can put in houses to build with stables to hold your horses im sure they can program a simple chair. And you can place items in peoples inventories. I am also fairly sure I seen skill books that allows vendors, don't quote me on that.

Most of what you mention above is fairly simple add-ons and polish to the current CORE system they have implemented right NOW. I can see that it wouldn't matter if they had flying pink ponies that gave you ice cream and BJs, you are on a crusade to try and destroy something. Good luck with that, maybe its just your nature. I usually steer clear of doomsayers.

LiquidWolf · January 2010

Originally posted by Yamota

Funny how they justify having full nudity with "you should be able to handle it" and "nudity does not always imply sex".
Funny because Sweden was the country that first comersialised porn. The so called "Swedish Sin".
Anyway, this game will probably tank, not because of nudity, or rather because the game simply is far, far from being in released state.

First off...

I recommend you read up on the "swedish sin" and foreigners accounts of it...

http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=LZWb9xH9p6bX6WnkpQLLmPZfxhMh52M7FvhwNTmnphq5F2zwxyhp!631636653!610724718?docId=5002441295

A good free preview that discusses the topic... which also points out that it is hardly the focus of anyone who is analyzing swedish society.

You can also use the Swedish website for more info...

http://www.sweden.se/eng/Home/Lifestyle/Swedes/Reading/The-Swedish-myths-True-false-or-somewhere-in-between/

It seems only people who need to make snide remarks point it out.

Your use of the term Porn is inaccurate considering their use of NUDITY on the silver screen and beaches was not for pornographic purposes... merely mis-interpreted by some conservative groups.

Sexually explicit pictures, writing, or other material whose primary purpose is to cause sexual arousal.

In any regards... the game hardly focuses on nudity, and so far i've seen very few people actually abuse it since characters started out with clothing.

Ruyn · January 2010

Originally posted by Nasir64

How do you affect the world? Building a house has no meaning. Winning a battle has no meaning. Crafting is a means to an end for PvP but basically, that's about it. You can't craft things that make the world any different. Sandbox means you create your own content, but the tools are in place to do it. I always look back to UO here, because that's the comparison made by Star Vault. UO had the ability to set up vendors, create furniture, decorate your house, create a library, wear an orc helm and go live amongst the orcs, etc. You could poison an apple and give it to somebody as a gift. You could be a thief that stole town sigils for faction warfare. Or you could do the PvP thing too, which is obviously where I spent all my time.

This makes no sense at all because 90% of the stuff you mentioned has the basic tools to be implemented. You want a chair ... i mean come on your grasping at air now. If they can put in houses to build with stables to hold your horses im sure they can program a simple chair. And you can place items in peoples inventories. I am also fairly sure I seen skill books that allows vendors, don't quote me on that.

Most of what you mention above is fairly simple add-ons and polish to the current CORE system they have implemented right NOW. I can see that it wouldn't matter if they had flying pink ponies that gave you ice cream and BJs, you are on a crusade to try and destroy something. Good luck with that, maybe its just your nature. I usually steer clear of doomsayers.

Let's hope they can get the "core" as you say it running smooth and bug free. That remains to be seen.

HerculesSAS · January 2010

Originally posted by Angorim

Originally posted by Nasir64

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

A quick perusal of the MO forums will show the discontent of the players. Right now, the vast majority of the players feel the game is not ready for launch, including both fanboys of the game, and haters of the game. With the paid beta, sync issues, mediocre combat and mediocre crafting well... I don't see longevity in this game.

From what I have seen so far on the forums (march 09 reg) everyone seems to be pretty content waiting for the launch. There has been a few people who has publicly quit which is normal but what your are saying is stretching the truth to an extreme. The beta forums is filled with balancing questions and general tester feedback nothing out of the norm.

I think the game will be another Dark and Light, released far before it's done, and far too buggy to play. People playing in small numbers seem to have no issue, but being in a 'sandbox' world without any 'sandbox' tools to affect that world will not provide a healthy release for players.

You couldn't be farther from the truth. What tools are missing? You can craft houses, armor, weapons, and numerous add-ons like stables to keep your horses. That sounds like tools to me. Which ones are you talking about? Last time I checked the skill book vendors had a nice variety of books to learn.

And with the paid beta, the people who were already interested in the game are basically already a part of it. So you are saying there is no new people joining the game? I purchased it a few days before the stress test, and during the stress test a few people I came across actually bought the game after they seen it from stress testing. So again are you just pulling these things out of the air?

Much as I'd like to say good luck, I have played the game enough to know that the mismanagement of the game, lack of focus and scattered design, along with the ability to hack the game (worse than Darkfall, because it's easier) and the problems with sync and lag well... it's gonna bomb. But to those that are fans well... step right up and play, I don't think you'll be there long either because the population will be dwindling fast. I have yet to see any types of hacks, although I have not been everywhere yet so I suppose it could be reds that use em. If you believe the game will bomb then fine, move along, let other people decide for themselves when the open beta comes.

Hercules has made it a personal crusade to "protect" the populous of, at least on this forum, from this sham. Or at least that's the most logical reasoning I can come up with.

While I agree that paying for beta is a stupid move, no one is forcing the people that do buy it to do so. Everyone can pretty much come to the same conclusion, whether you've paid for the beta or not, that the game needs a lot more development. Anything beyond that is wild speculation and purely opinion related.

To be perfectly honest, there is great entertainment value in the way people act over a video game. I can sit here and make a point about the game, because I do follow it and I am still interested in its development. I have said all along, if they made the game great or whatever, I'd be there playing it with everybody else.

Thing is though, people here would much rather go with personal attacks, deragatory statements, etc.. all about a video game. I just sit and talk about a video game while I'm not busy at work. When I'm home I don't care for this game or anything else, I don't spend my time with it.

And yea, if I can convince a few people that they should wait a bit for the game (because it isn't going to make it far), then I think it's a good deed that I saved somebody $50 or $70 or more. Everybody else who is a 'true believer' well.. their wishes are going to get granted soon with the release, and I'll get a good chuckle as the frequent the MMO boards asking "hey guys, the game is really good now, honest! Come back!" -- just like they did with Darkfall. At least with Darkfall though, there was a whole playable game to begin with. MO isn't even a game as there's nothing to do other than craft armor/weapons, PvP, and when you die, rinse and repeat.

For entertainment value, there's nothing to beat the nerdrage of people who defend a video game, and stoop to no lower levels to make their point. But at 6pm, they will still be doing it, and I'll be home doing my own thing

JackArbiter · January 2010

""" Much as I'd like to say good luck, I have played the game enough to know (....) it's gonna bomb."""

Why can't you just say good luck? You have played the laggy beta with the rest of us. At least, up until a point. You still mention "sync issues." They fixed sync/lag issues for the most part a few patches ago. This very month. Before that I'd withheld my opinions about whether the game would turn out. Now I think it'll do alright, maybe, if they have enough money to survive the first 6 months and slowly grow the game afterward. Anyway, you think Darkfall (the game you compare it with, I'm not a Darkfall basher) didn't have sync issues? People couldn't see each other in game, two weeks before release. They did their job and fixed it. Bravo.

""" A quick perusal of the MO forums will show the discontent of the players. """

Among current beta players, sure we'd prefer the company wait if they can. But a current poll shows beta players 3:1 in favor of subscribing past the first month based on current playability. As you say that includes the more dedicated fans, but many of the no votes specifically state that they'll wait and see after the first free month is up.

""" Without any sandbox tools """

What are we missing, shovels and pails? Yes it's not full of content, but you can craft armor, melee weapons, bows, houses, and crafting stations which is a good start.

""" along with the ability to hack the game (worse than Darkfall, because it's easier) """

You obviously don't know what you're talking about. When you hit a key the commands are sent to each game app in the same manner, and any game like this will require client-side hit detection. The difference between the two is that EPIC China has built a cheat-detection system that Star Vault has put in place for MO and while it probably sucks like all other cheat detection systems it at least detects obvious movement violations and automatically slams down on cheaters.

Speedhacking in Darkfall was the norm at first - which I've heard has been tamped down at least somewhat, which is great for them and helps secure all the hard work they've put in the game building their engine and world from scratch and is also great for my many friends that still play the game. And I wish AV GOOD LUCK because they're decent guys trying to do something different from the norm... and because I'm not a hater who's butthurt because the devs didn't like my idea for a new forum when they were too busy tamping down the obvious bugs right after beta started to worry about getting a bug submission system working just so people could send repetitive information to them concerning bugs they were already aware of. Yes, I'm talking about you and MO.

So how about ease off the personal anger and put a little more objectivity into your concerns? Hell maybe even pull for a small dev team workin' their asses off to make a UO-style first-person twitchy game in the face of all these massive corporations churning out the same garbage we were all tired of in 2002?

LiquidWolf · January 2010

Originally posted by Ruyn

Originally posted by Nasir64

How do you affect the world? Building a house has no meaning. Winning a battle has no meaning. Crafting is a means to an end for PvP but basically, that's about it. You can't craft things that make the world any different. Sandbox means you create your own content, but the tools are in place to do it. I always look back to UO here, because that's the comparison made by Star Vault. UO had the ability to set up vendors, create furniture, decorate your house, create a library, wear an orc helm and go live amongst the orcs, etc. You could poison an apple and give it to somebody as a gift. You could be a thief that stole town sigils for faction warfare. Or you could do the PvP thing too, which is obviously where I spent all my time.

This makes no sense at all because 90% of the stuff you mentioned has the basic tools to be implemented. You want a chair ... i mean come on your grasping at air now. If they can put in houses to build with stables to hold your horses im sure they can program a simple chair. And you can place items in peoples inventories. I am also fairly sure I seen skill books that allows vendors, don't quote me on that.

Most of what you mention above is fairly simple add-ons and polish to the current CORE system they have implemented right NOW. I can see that it wouldn't matter if they had flying pink ponies that gave you ice cream and BJs, you are on a crusade to try and destroy something. Good luck with that, maybe its just your nature. I usually steer clear of doomsayers.

Let's hope they can get the "core" as you say it running smooth and bug free. That remains to be seen.

remains to be seen? I was logged in last night and the "core" seemed to be doing just fine.

Bug Free is another matter, but even YOU have never seen a "Bug Free" MMO in your life. Don't toss that term around like you know something about it.

Look, UO was great, but it didn't start out bug free and feature rich... it worked to that point. I enjoyed it at it's height, but i'm never going to imagine that Ultimate Online started out like that.

What Mortal Online is doing... it's on the same track as UO was. That doesn't mean it will BE UO, but it will be trying to hit similar heights and audiences.

misterdurp · January 2010

I think a lot of ppl are expecting a fully fledged competitor in the mmo market but unlike Darkfall, which was in developement for many many years and generated a HUGE amount of hype this game will really focus a lot on a small release and continues to build upon the small playerbase to expand over the years. Darkfall already had a large amount of players leaving the game a month after release cause ppl simply expected too much, in MO this wont be the case cause the communication is very open unlike DF where open beta (and NDA drop) was what, 2 weeks before release?

Neanderthal · January 2010

The <first person view only> restriction was the single reason I lost interest in this game. I mean it's fine if that's what they want to do, it's their game. But they are deluding themselves when they say that people will learn to like it. None of us are new to games. Anyone who checks out MO will have already played many other games. People already know if they like 1st person view or not. Simply telling people, "You'll learn to like it" isn't going to change a damn thing. Nobody who dislikes it is suddenly going to start liking it just because some random guy tells them to.

But from what I've heard about the game it's probably just as well that I didn't start getting my hopes up.

leowyatt · January 2010

Originally posted by JackArbiter

*snip*
So how about ease off the personal anger and put a little more objectivity into your concerns? Hell maybe even pull for a small dev team workin' their asses off to make a UO-style first-person twitchy game in the face of all these massive corporations churning out the same garbage we were all tired of in 2002?

^ This right here...

I see so many people begging and moaning for this every day on these forums yet when a company has the balls to actually try it everyone comes down on them like they are blizzard with 100's of millions of dollars to throw around. As far as I can see the MO team has been very upfront and real about what to expect with this game and how its gonna roll out. I respect that alot.

We all know that no big house dev team is going to touch a design like this, its too risky and niche. They want the formula that works and so anyone with that kinda money is going to do one thing... copy wow to try for the big bucks. They don't give a damn about innovation and fun they just want money.

With how NEEDED a game like this is in the genre we all should be rallying and rooting for the underdog to succeed and show the big dev houses that a game like this can be successful and profitable. Maybe we will stop getting all these watered down co-op rpgs shoved at us.

I'm not saying to run out and help financially cause you should be cautious with your money, but you should at least try and understand what a group of people are trying very hard to do for us and rally behind them to show the industry what we really want in a game.

HerculesSAS · January 2010

Originally posted by JackArbiter

""" Much as I'd like to say good luck, I have played the game enough to know (....) it's gonna bomb."""
Why can't you just say good luck? You have played the laggy beta with the rest of us. At least, up until a point. You still mention "sync issues." They fixed sync/lag issues for the most part a few patches ago. This very month. Before that I'd withheld my opinions about whether the game would turn out. Now I think it'll do alright, maybe, if they have enough money to survive the first 6 months and slowly grow the game afterward. Anyway, you think Darkfall (the game you compare it with, I'm not a Darkfall basher) didn't have sync issues? People couldn't see each other in game, two weeks before release. They did their job and fixed it. Bravo.
""" A quick perusal of the MO forums will show the discontent of the players. """
Among current beta players, sure we'd prefer the company wait if they can. But a current poll shows beta players 3:1 in favor of subscribing past the first month based on current playability. As you say that includes the more dedicated fans, but many of the no votes specifically state that they'll wait and see after the first free month is up.
""" Without any sandbox tools """
What are we missing, shovels and pails? Yes it's not full of content, but you can craft armor, melee weapons, bows, houses, and crafting stations which is a good start.
""" along with the ability to hack the game (worse than Darkfall, because it's easier) """
You obviously don't know what you're talking about. When you hit a key the commands are sent to each game app in the same manner, and any game like this will require client-side hit detection. The difference between the two is that EPIC China has built a cheat-detection system that Star Vault has put in place for MO and while it probably sucks like all other cheat detection systems it at least detects obvious movement violations and automatically slams down on cheaters.
Speedhacking in Darkfall was the norm at first - which I've heard has been tamped down at least somewhat, which is great for them and helps secure all the hard work they've put in the game building their engine and world from scratch and is also great for my many friends that still play the game. And I wish AV GOOD LUCK because they're decent guys trying to do something different from the norm... and because I'm not a hater who's butthurt because the devs didn't like my idea for a new forum when they were too busy tamping down the obvious bugs right after beta started to worry about getting a bug submission system working just so people could send repetitive information to them concerning bugs they were already aware of. Yes, I'm talking about you and MO.
So how about ease off the personal anger and put a little more objectivity into your concerns? Hell maybe even pull for a small dev team workin' their asses off to make a UO-style first-person twitchy game in the face of all these massive corporations churning out the same garbage we were all tired of in 2002?

Man, your quoting is killing me

If you think sync issues are gone -- great. I think differently and when release happens and there's a full load, we will see soon enough who is correct.

As for the sandbox tools... I mentioned UO. All the things you mentioned are already available in unreal MODS -- crafting, shops, etc. None of what is in the game is revolutionary in the slightest, it's an evolution or devolution of existing MMOs and a straight copy of their featureset. Mostly, it's a copy of UO, but missing everything that UO had going for it. The only thing that is similar to UO, is the flagging system -- which is still broken. I know the devs have mentioned EVE as a comparison for their growth, but EVE had a "killer feature" when it launched, and easier overhead because their game took place in SPACE (ie, no environments). The killer feature was PvP/Politics, and it was implemented well FROM THE BEGINNING. MO has combat that is basically a copy of Age of Chivalry, except it doesn't work as well and with the invisible crosshair, and no swing arcs, doesn't even do as much. Best of luck if people buy the game for the crafting, which I won't even argue because I won't ever do it.

As for 'cheat detection'.... it's a laugh. If you think MO's client has cheat detection built into it, great. I know it does not, and while you can reinforce your opinions by those on the MO forums, or the MO devs, I know that a simple DLL injection into the client causes no suspicion on the server. I'm fairly sure that the server has some cheat detection so you can't manipulate it directly, but the client is unprotected and easy to hack. Again, I won't tell you how -- but it's REALLY, REALLY easy, and even more so since all the hits are client side.

From my point of view, I am objective. I look at the game, I look at what they are offering, and I offer my opinion. Oddly enough, while people call me a troll, I said the same things in the MO forums a LONG time ago. I've been consistent from well before beta, and the fact that the message doesn't agree with you does not make it any less objective. From your point of view, you are being objective. Of course, we all have our own views on things but I look at it from the point of view of a person that actually does know logic, programming, process, procedure, implementation, design, etc from a software point of view. You look at it from the viewpoint of a game player and how "fun" the game is.

Obviously we aren't going to agree, and I can respect that much that you feel it's going to do great. I respectfully disagree, and in the coming weeks of launch, we will find out who is right, and who is wrong. Honestly, I had at one point hoped that I was wrong as I didn't want to see another MMO bite the dust, but the simple sad fact is that this MMO gives a bad name to all those developers who actually went through the hard work, did things the right way, and failed for different reasons. When they fail (and I believe they will), they will just add more scared investors to this niche genre, so seeing a GOOD game from the "UO-esque" type of genre is going to be even harder to see. The unfortunate part of it is, that so many people will be conned by MO (and are already) that the other 'indy' devs who have some cash to waste will start hyping up a game that they say does everything and more, brings back that feeling of UO, epic mage v mage battles and epic monsters, only to deliver a piece of garbage and further isolate this niche MMO area.

HerculesSAS · January 2010

Originally posted by leowyatt

Originally posted by JackArbiter

*snip*
So how about ease off the personal anger and put a little more objectivity into your concerns? Hell maybe even pull for a small dev team workin' their asses off to make a UO-style first-person twitchy game in the face of all these massive corporations churning out the same garbage we were all tired of in 2002?

^ This right here...

I see so many people begging and moaning for this every day on these forums yet when a company has the balls to actually try it everyone comes down on them like they are blizzard with 100's of millions of dollars to throw around. As far as I can see the MO team has been very upfront and real about what to expect with this game and how its gonna roll out. I respect that alot.

We all know that no big house dev team is going to touch a design like this, its too risky and niche. They want the formula that works and so anyone with that kinda money is going to do one thing... copy wow to try for the big bucks. They don't give a damn about innovation and fun they just want money.

With how NEEDED a game like this is in the genre we all should be rallying and rooting for the underdog to succeed and show the big dev houses that a game like this can be successful and profitable. Maybe we will stop getting all these watered down co-op rpgs shoved at us.

I'm not saying to run out and help financially cause you should be cautious with your money, but you should at least try and understand what a group of people are trying very hard to do for us and rally behind them to show the industry what we really want in a game.

I actually agree. We do need a game like this made, and we need to encourage developers to go and make it.

But we need to also encourage experienced developers. MO's team collectively has shipped zero titles.

Taking money for a beta basically makes you a quasi-investor. And while I understand that folks are excited to get a game like MO (on paper, hell, I was excited too), I think the mistake I made personally was to think that just by wishing it was the case, it would be so. Unfortunately, MO is a great idea in theory, a bad design in practice, and a team that can't carry out the vision which is basically to recreate UO in another form.

Maybe in a few years we'll see another title by some experienced developers, and they will be able to put out a game they know they can handle. Because a small development team cannot be overly ambitious or they basically wind up with failure. Like with MO.

maskedweasel · January 2010

He mentions an open beta coming soon.. but aren't they set to release this month? I hope they don't pull what they did with the stress test and say open beta will be for an extremely limited time.. and only tell us a few hours in advance. I'd really like a chance to see exactly what stage the development is in.

HerculesSAS · January 2010

Originally posted by maskedweasel
He mentions an open beta coming soon.. but aren't they set to release this month? I hope they don't pull what they did with the stress test and say open beta will be for an extremely limited time.. and only tell us a few hours in advance. I'd really like a chance to see exactly what stage the development is in.

I think you'll get a day or two of open beta before they launch. Keep your fingers crossed

Oyjord · January 2010

Originally posted by Neanderthal

The <first person view only> restriction was the single reason I lost interest in this game. I mean it's fine if that's what they want to do, it's their game. But they are deluding themselves when they say that people will learn to like it. None of us are new to games. Anyone who checks out MO will have already played many other games. People already know if they like 1st person view or not. Simply telling people, "You'll learn to like it" isn't going to change a damn thing. Nobody who dislikes it is suddenly going to start liking it just because some random guy tells them to.
But from what I've heard about the game it's probably just as well that I didn't start getting my hopes up.

QFT.

JackArbiter · January 2010

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

Man, your quoting is killing me
If you mean the mechanics of how I did it, yeah, I hate how the posting in these forums works. If you mean taking things out of context HAHA I do it because I can. If you mean typing too much crap... prepare for bleeding eyes:
If you think sync issues are gone -- great. I think differently and when release happens and there's a full load, we will see soon enough who is correct.
I was assuming you meant the really bad lag/sync issues even in unpopulated areas. I have no idea how hundreds in one place is gonna be (which is why I said FOR THE MOST PART)- probably won't be great, for sure.
As for the sandbox tools... I mentioned UO.
Yes, everyone mentions some game or other that they played years after release that had all sorts of features. UO in the beginning was a broken piece of **** compared to UO right before Trammel. The devs had to have money coming in and people playing and requesting things and breaking things in order to progress. As you say, c'est la vie.
All the things you mentioned are already available in unreal MODS -- crafting, shops, etc.
Now put all those mods into one place w/ 5k people running about and make them work in every situation and balance them between each other. Setting up these individual systems within a prebuilt fully-tested engine is NOT the challenge SV is facing. It's putting them in their specific engine. Buying into speedtree 5 is not a challenge... incorporating it is, as it breaks everything. It's an MMO on a map without instances and many more variables than a first-person game has. It's going to be harder than most people think.
None of what is in the game is revolutionary in the slightest, it's an evolution or devolution of existing MMOs and a straight copy of their featureset.
You mean trying to emulate real life as much as possible isn't a revolutionary idea? Say it ain't so.
I know the devs have mentioned EVE as a comparison for their growth, but EVE had a "killer feature" when it launched, and easier overhead because their game took place in SPACE (ie, no environments). The killer feature was PvP/Politics, and it was implemented well FROM THE BEGINNING.
Yes, it was easier because of no environments. Your point? It'll be harder for SV? Yeah, it will. Meanwhile, politics and pvp are player-driven. If you mean guild/guild mechanics are not yet very advanced, well I have no clue about that. Don't think anyone does.
MO has combat that is basically a copy of Age of Chivalry, except it doesn't work as well and with the invisible crosshair, and no swing arcs, doesn't even do as much.
AoCh has an invisible crosshair too. They both have "swing arcs." AoCh sends out stunted bullet trajectories in the path that you control and when one hit is detected against a mesh the lines stop being sent out. That is how the arc works. That is how MO works. MO does have fewer ways to swing, if that's what you mean. It's UE 3.5, however, and this can be adjusted in the future. Meanwhile, your point was supposed to be that because MO "copied" AoCh (how about copied oblivion or copied dark messiah or... hit detection! what!? THEY TOTALLY COPIED PONG) the pvp is worse than EvE. As if EvE didn't copy something from someone else, as if autotarget is better than twitchy just 'cause twitchy has been done before.
As for 'cheat detection'.... it's a laugh. If you think MO's client has cheat detection built into it, great. I know it does not, and while you can reinforce your opinions by those on the MO forums, or the MO devs, I know that a simple DLL injection into the client causes no suspicion on the server. I'm fairly sure that the server has some cheat detection so you can't manipulate it directly, but the client is unprotected and easy to hack. Again, I won't tell you how -- but it's REALLY, REALLY easy, and even more so since all the hits are client side.
You're reading random **** into what I said. It's server-side for now, I didn't claim differently, and while I assume a "punkbuster" system is in the works from the response I got from a dev I don't know for a fact. There was no suggestion of whether it'd be client or server side by the dev. All I said was it's not easier than DF, which is what you said, and which is not true unless you're talking about needing fewer lines of code, which is irrelevant. They're both easy as hell, damncheaters can't be stopped by "better coding," cheating is gonna happen in any online game without a detection system. And because MO has at least a server side "warping" or "speed" detection system it is at least one step better than how DF was in the beginning (got no idea how DF is now).
From my point of view, I am objective. I look at the game, I look at what they are offering, and I offer my opinion. Oddly enough, while people call me a troll, I said the same things in the MO forums a LONG time ago. I've been consistent from well before beta, and the fact that the message doesn't agree with you does not make it any less objective.
Your opinion is wrong! <---See that? That's a stupid thing to say (I'm not saying that's what either of us is saying). True "opinions" can't be wrong. Declarative sentences that are meant to be statements of fact... those can be wrong. So when you say "I would wish them luck but I won't because they're going to fail" it makes people angry and they call you a troll. Because you have not stated your opinion, you have gone beyond that and made a statement of fact concerning what will happen in the future that you can't possibly know to be true. As far as your opinions, well a lot of people share them. If you look at what I said you can see that I share them. It's gonna be a rough road and many things are not close to ideal. But I think that's an opinion the SV guys also share. Again, when you say everything they have done so far has been wrong and that they'll obviously fail since they are incompetent... well not many share that "opinion" as it is not an "opinion."
Of course, we all have our own views on things but I look at it from the point of view of a person that actually does know logic, programming, process, procedure, implementation, design, etc from a software point of view. You look at it from the viewpoint of a game player and how "fun" the game is.
AW SHUCKS I don't know nothin' 'bout no computers NOHOW! Thanks for the assumption. I realize that the computer literacy of most people on the internet these days is "retarded chimp" in comparison w/ the average computer literacy of people on the internet in '93 but I was one of those people, using my black and white AOL and my friend's Prodigy. Look at me and how objective and analytically sound this makes my arguments! And despite your vast wellspring of knowledge from which to draw from you still talk as if it's all so simple, man if they were just as good as z3r0c00l from the movie hackers we'd have us a cheat-proof "revolutionary" MMO full of awesomesauce.
Obviously we aren't going to agree, and I can respect that much that you feel it's going to do great.
Nothing I said could give the impression I think it's going to do great. My exact words: """Now I think it'll do alright, maybe, if they have enough money to survive the first 6 months and slowly grow the game afterward.""" i.e. I hope. I think maybe in 6 months or a year it'll be better. I'm thoroughly jaded against the possibility of good things happening in this world. Just tired of people pulling against good things.
this MMO gives a bad name ... When they fail....people will be conned by MO .... only to deliver a piece of garbage
This crap I'm quoting isn't objective. You get halfway through a post and then you go all angry berserk like this, it's not healthy. Man, the game's not out. You've pretty much shown you've not even played recently. You're not taking into account all the other games that started out small and minimal. You're missing the entire point of what people who have a small amount of modest hope for the game are trying to say. You're saying don't buy the game, don't even give it a shot, don't even look to find out. You're simply on here trolling at the game and the company. You're saying you're not... but you are. And that's fine, to each his own, you can do what you want. And I can sit here blowing my downtime at work on a Friday being overly-sarcastic and trying to prove to an apple that he's an apple because someone is wrong on the internet.

HerculesSAS · January 2010

Instead of requoting yet again, and going through the heartache of the atrocious quote system MMORPG has, I'll just make a few points so it's easier to read. It was the mechanics I was talking about, regarding the quote system

I think instead of replying to every point, I'll say this RE: the EVE comparison. EVE's PvP was what kept people playing. Not the fact it *had* PvP, else every other game out there would be doing great -- the the fact that it had deep, strategic PvP. MO's combat mimics Age of Chivalry in many ways, but doesn't have the swing 'arc' or trajectories. It hits a single spot, with an invisible crosshair. Go ahead and try it out. That's why the debate is so heated about having a crosshair or not in the game, because it's really important in order to actually 'hit' your opponent. Otherwise if you're a centimeter off, you won't hit the guy at all, even though your swing would technically have hit him.

As for not trying it well... I am not saying that. There's supposed to be an open beta, and I would encourage anybody interested to give it an honest look. But as is the case with a lot of players in MO, they believe it to be more than it is. Reading some of the commentary about "best combat in an MMO", or "amazing AI", or other things that are total garbage is where I would caution people to tread lightly and use a bit of logic. It will not become the game, just because you wish it to be so.

I agree with you though, in terms of the 6 months waiting for it to be a good game. Personally, I don't think it will take 6 months for it to be a reasonable game, because there are so many problems now and so few fully functional systems. I can't forsee the future, but if in the future MO does become the game they claimed in interviews and on paper, then I'll probably play it as well. But as I watch from the sidelines, I see a whole lot of hype, a forum with developers who start fights with forum members, a CEO who has almost no experience whatsoever, and a 'team' that has collectively shipped nothing even as simple as PONG to date. While the optimism you have I would share if those facts were different, alas I revert to reality, where looking at all that's stacked up against the game being a success, I'd rather be a pessimist and be right, than an optimist and be let down. If the game fails, I will admit there will be a simple smile resembling "I told you so". I suppose that's my constant battle with fanboys though, so nothing against you on that one

Cheers.

downtoearth · January 2010

Originally posted by HerculesSAS

Instead of requoting yet again, and going through the heartache of the atrocious quote system MMORPG has, I'll just make a few points so it's easier to read. It was the mechanics I was talking about, regarding the quote system
I think instead of replying to every point, I'll say this RE: the EVE comparison. EVE's PvP was what kept people playing. Not the fact it *had* PvP, else every other game out there would be doing great -- the the fact that it had deep, strategic PvP. MO's combat mimics Age of Chivalry in many ways, but doesn't have the swing 'arc' or trajectories. It hits a single spot, with an invisible crosshair. Go ahead and try it out. That's why the debate is so heated about having a crosshair or not in the game, because it's really important in order to actually 'hit' your opponent. Otherwise if you're a centimeter off, you won't hit the guy at all, even though your swing would technically have hit him.
As for not trying it well... I am not saying that. There's supposed to be an open beta, and I would encourage anybody interested to give it an honest look. But as is the case with a lot of players in MO, they believe it to be more than it is. Reading some of the commentary about "best combat in an MMO", or "amazing AI", or other things that are total garbage is where I would caution people to tread lightly and use a bit of logic. It will not become the game, just because you wish it to be so.
I agree with you though, in terms of the 6 months waiting for it to be a good game. Personally, I don't think it will take 6 months for it to be a reasonable game, because there are so many problems now and so few fully functional systems. I can't forsee the future, but if in the future MO does become the game they claimed in interviews and on paper, then I'll probably play it as well. But as I watch from the sidelines, I see a whole lot of hype, a forum with developers who start fights with forum members, a CEO who has almost no experience whatsoever, and a 'team' that has collectively shipped nothing even as simple as PONG to date. While the optimism you have I would share if those facts were different, alas I revert to reality, where looking at all that's stacked up against the game being a success, I'd rather be a pessimist and be right, than an optimist and be let down. If the game fails, I will admit there will be a simple smile resembling "I told you so". I suppose that's my constant battle with fanboys though, so nothing against you on that one
Cheers.

the combat pvp wise( now the pve is where it needs lil more work) can be fixed fairly easyly but the crafting system needed to get in and tested first since its much more complexed

rageagainst · January 2010

Originally posted by misterdurp

I think a lot of ppl are expecting a fully fledged competitor in the mmo market but unlike Darkfall, which was in developement for many many years and generated a HUGE amount of hype this game will really focus a lot on a small release and continues to build upon the small playerbase to expand over the years. Darkfall already had a large amount of players leaving the game a month after release cause ppl simply expected too much, in MO this wont be the case cause the communication is very open unlike DF where open beta (and NDA drop) was what, 2 weeks before release?

This, the devs stated everything that's going to be in for launch, and its basically the foundation for their game. They aren't like AV who said the game would be fully featured. This game is going the EvE route, start off with a solid core playerbase and then grow from there, which I think is what Darkfall was trying to do, but their incredible false promises by the dev team and withholding of information generated an unheard of amount of hype. This in turn gave DF one of the worst reps in MMO history, along with DnL

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