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I'm Sick of Companies Trying to Scam Players
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A game that draws you in and then turns around and says you have to pay more to access extra content in order to progress, or promises certain content and then makes you pay for it can be a scam. Or even more, one that takes your money and runs. But when Blizzard says you can pay $10 for vanity pets, that in no way means you have to buy them or you can't access end game. Item shops, though they are indeed a way for a company to make more money, are generally for content that is optional. Yes, it may give payers an advantage over non-payers, but that doesn't mean you cannot play the game without using the shop.
Maybe when we reach a point where you buy a game for $50, open the box, find nothing but a dead cockroach inside, and then realize that you have to pay for DLC, we can call it a scam.
We can argue about pricing and quality of content, but (most) companies are still delivering what they advertise. They're not intentionally deceiving anybody.
This is ridiculous.
The OP can toss around loaded accusations of "scam" and "extortion" indiscriminately (not to mention drop the f-bomb), and I'm moderated for telling him he's being irresponsible and childish?
Precisely what kind of operation is mmorpg.com running here? Is this really the sort of audience you're trying to cultivate and provide a platform?
Companies will take what they can, games, autos, food, hospitals, it doesn't matter. They are in business for profit, not for your well being. Some have regs they have to follow, some do not. games do not, other than moral.
You are the one that decides what these companies can get away with. For example SWG. no one will try that again, The outrage from us, the consumer, made sure of that.
Until enough players decide that enough is enough with half assed releases, games with nothing original or new and being nickled and dimed for everything the company can think of, it's going to get worse. Look at the releases of the last couple of years, missing content, poor performance, shoddy story lines, no originality.
As many older gamers, I believe mmo's have gotten worse over the years. Is that the companies fault ? I think not , it's ours. Every time we buy into the hype we support the general back sliding of mmo's . The make a buck fast and move on mentality. If you're happy with the new releases, good deal. If not, don't blame anyone but yourself.
Voice what you think, after all this is a forum and discussion brings about change.
He was most probably reporting your posts because you were upsetting him with your logic.
You don't like it. Don't buy it. This rant is stupid.
I 100% support Blizzard's right to sell virtual pets. It is a free country. There is no deception. You don't have to buy it.
Could you link the article that confirms this please. I always thought DLC was a way of prolonging the life of a game and the revenue stream for that game. You have no-one but yourself to blame, for being so naive. Companies are not philanthropists.
Theres no specific article to link. A few years ago when DLC was on the rise everyone agreed that it should be used to lower the prices of games (to battle piracy) and to expand with DLC. Im glad i didnt buy a game that milks its customers (cough Borderlands/ Champions Online)
Who? At what universal gathering was this "agreement" made? Or is it YOUR take on DLC? Damn I'm so glad I don't buy cars that require me to pay more for added extras like sunroof, aircon, electric seats, satnav, alloy wheels, leather trim, metalic paint. Please open your eyes to this reality.
No, that would be blatant theft. Extortion is a different matter entirely.
Let me set you all a scenario: If a disabled person is sold a bunch of shiny stones for a great deal of money, is it theft?
( Also, I don't actually play STO or CO, so yeah. )
Wow.... I actually /facepalmed at reading this. How does this analogy relate to ANYTHING let alone this thread of yours? What has being disabled got to do with buying shiny stones? If they BOUGHT them and received the stones how could it be theft?
I'm guessing your are less experienced in the wider world. We were all a bit green round the gills once, it will dawn on you one day.
He was most probably reporting your posts because you were upsetting him with your logic.
LOL, nice thought but no, you were warned because you attacked the poster by name calling, most defintiely a no no here at MMORPG.com
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No, that would be blatant theft. Extortion is a different matter entirely.
Let me set you all a scenario: If a disabled person is sold a bunch of shiny stones for a great deal of money, is it theft?
( Also, I don't actually play STO or CO, so yeah. )
Wow.... I actually /facepalmed at reading this. How does this analogy relate to ANYTHING let alone this thread of yours? What has being disabled got to do with buying shiny stones? If they BOUGHT them and received the stones how could it be theft?
I'm guessing your are less experienced in the wider world. We were all a bit green round the gills once, it will dawn on you one day.
Apparently, handicapped people shouldn't be allowed to buy jewelry?
He was most probably reporting your posts because you were upsetting him with your logic.
LOL, nice thought but no, you were warned because you attacked the poster by name calling, most defintiely a no no here at MMORPG.com
Unless the other guy starts it. I was called a grass-eating cow by someone, so in retaliation I called him an old fart. Even if I get in trouble, it was worth it.
He was most probably reporting your posts because you were upsetting him with your logic.
LOL, nice thought but no, you were warned because you attacked the poster by name calling, most defintiely a no no here at MMORPG.com
Um, the only "name" I called the OP was "kid". Which by comparison to most of nonsense he's been contributing, I thought was pretty generous.
I looked up Cryptic Studios on the Better Business Bureau and they have a rating of "F". Look here http://sanjose.bbb.org/Business-Report/Cryptic-Studios-221613
Once again I'll start by saying I don't like Cryptic.
However, all it takes with the BBB to get a bad rating is for you to not answer their calls/e-mails. BBB records complaints from anyone who contacts them, they then contact the company to get their side. If the company (like a fair number of middle-sized companies) decides they don't want to deal with the ridiculous issues that get brought to them and so they don't return the BBB e-mail or phone calls then the BBB instantly drops their rating.
So all it actually takes is a few people to say something ridiculous (which half the posts on this site show that people don't understand what is fair in business and what isn't, a lot of false entitlement going on with gamers these days) to the BBB and the company in turn not to respond to the BBB and boom you get a D or F.
I've never felt the BBB is really an accurate rating system in the least.
Look down the bottom of that page where it lists issues and why it gives the rating of F. 35 of 36 issues were no response. Everywhere else on the page it says no extra info on the company and nothing else is wrong, the BBB just hates when companies don't answer them.
Yeah, look a little closer.
That's for a grand total of thirty six (36) complaints over the course of THREE YEARS. Go lookup SOE or Blizzard. I'd be willing to wager they get more complaints than that per HOUR.
Not to defend Cryptic (as I've said, I probably won't buy STO as a result of Champions being lackluster) but I wonder how many videogame companies have terrible ratings as a result of their customers feeling a greater-than-usual sense of entitlement like the OP.
Seems like considerably more entitlement exists with videogames than other products - or perhaps it exists but I don't visit hardcore car-lover websites (as one example) to hear them saying similar things.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
You are wrong. What the majority of players don't understand is that Game Companies are selling a SERVICE, not a software.
I agree with OP that some company (with big investor behind), are doing things in an absolutely unethical way, and, guess what?, most players say nothing. There should be some legal regulation on how these companies should release their services but, until someone doesn't organize a class action against the lies around a product, nothing will change.
Lol, companies started to sell beta access for real money!! ROFL, you pay to work for them instead of contrary. LMAO. Congratulations, it's not a company's fault, it's a player's fault.
Specifically, it's not about Cryptic, because they are not the only one, they just seems less smart in hiding their real interests and plans.
It seems that people really think Internet is a virtual place where the rights can't be defended. Internet is a real place with real people, real companies and, most important, with real money.
Your money.
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I don't think STO and CO can be considered as scams. As long as they sell us what they advertise it is fine. It doesn't matter if they want you to pay for the box plus a monthly subscription plus fee for an expansion every two months it is all good as long as they sell products matching their descriptions.
Some companies sell you gamble boxes containing 20 items with unknown chance of getting a mount but they tell you "the box CONTAIN a mount". They refuse to tell you the chance of getting the mount no matter what. They may also take advantage of a charity by teling you "a portion of the sales of a product will be donated to charity" but they only tell you it is 5% in the forum but not the pages where they do the advertising. Well you know the charity will reject their donation. They may run a fishing event which requires you to buy from their cash shop. They will tell you you get a chance to win a puppy bag but what they won't tell you is it takes 250 days of fishing to get it and the event only runs for 30 days.
This is Atlantica Online.
So you think STO and CO are scams comparing to Atlantica Online?
You are wrong. What the majority of players don't understand is that Game Companies are selling a SERVICE, not a software.
I agree with OP that some company (with big investor behind), are doing things in an absolutely unethical way, and, guess what?, most players say nothing. There should be some legal regulation on how these companies should release their services but, until someone doesn't organize a class action against the lies around a product, nothing will change.
Lol, companies started to sell beta access for real money!! ROFL, you pay to work for them instead of contrary. LMAO. Congratulations, it's not a company's fault, it's a player's fault.
Specifically, it's not about Cryptic, because they are not the only one, they just seems less smart in hiding their real interests and plans.
It seems that people really think Internet is a virtual place where the rights can't be defended. Internet is a real place with real people, real companies and, most important, with real money.
Your money.
You start by saying I'm wrong and then you go on to say what it "should" be like. Software, games especially is much harder to regulate because its ENTERTAINMENT. Like a movie or a book.... when you read a childrens book thats 6 pages long to a child, are you suddenly all up in arms because it had just enough content to bring you to the end and nothing more? Will you then, not buy the other books because they should have been included in the first?
Everyone has a chance to make their own choices, and those that didn't want to pay for the beta of MO didn't have to.. but some did.. and that was THEIR choice. The game company didn't force them to buy it. We no longer live in an age where you can't watch these games being played, test them, or read about them before you buy them. Regulations exist for games that sell boxes of "released games" but don't have any game in the boxes.. THAT is a scam... and that is punishable. Releasing a game that people don't like because the additional content will cost money... nope, not a scam... just pisses off customers and makes the developer less popular.
:::Edit::: By the way, the SERVICE you speak of.. thats a subscription. Its like a magazine subscription or my Xbox Live subscription. It allows me to receive the magazine monthly.. or the USE of xbox live. It does not give me the right to have free avatar pieces for my XBL character. Just because you pay a subscription doesn't mean you GET extra content for free... adding additional free content is an ADDED bonus... from GOOD developers. you aren't entitled to it because you pay a subscription.
Pick a MMORPG or just a regular game you feel you can enjoy, no need to get sick, no need to call scam, just don't touch those games you feel is going to make you sick about how they handle things, that's what I do, sure I might be somewhat disappointed in a game like Star Trek, but I already knew Cryptic has never really captured me in playing their games so was not expecting really much from STO, which just turned out by my own experiance of playing it to not be my kind of MMO and I left, with a few writes about my own experaince and opinion, but felt no need to bash the hell out of it. Some people like it, some don't, it's the way the world works.
The reall problem is that the majority of players will engage/pay/play those games so those company's will continue with their practice as it brings them money, so I feel like always you need to look at what the reall cause is of what you ramble about instead of taking the easy road and blame the company's, keep in mind company's do not excist long if customers stop using the products/services, so geuss what, we still see those company's running, must be something with those company's that some people are willing to pay for regardless YOUR or mine feelings about.
And lifetime subs, it's still amazing people go for things like that, do all those people know excactly what can/will happen in life, either with the game, it's company or in their real life's?
As said, pick a game/mmorpg that you feel will suite you in most way's to enjoy it. This is not saying I agree on how some company's work, but I just don't give them my money, nor my time to give them free viral marketing as regardless if it's bashing or praising a game it's still free marketing people seem to give these company's as these company's continue to get attention, cause the things people might bash a game about might be things some might find intresting to go with. I don't like RMT but in some bashes you suddenly see a game that get's bashed for having it, so that's already something that might spark the intrest of people who do like forms of RMT < example....
According to Dictionary.com a scam is
-noun
1. a confidence game or other fraudulent scheme, esp. for making a quick profit; swindle.
–verb (used with object)
2. to cheat or defraud with a scam.
By this definition Tiffany is not running a scam if they sell a necklace for $300k you can buy for just $5k elsewhere, as long as the price, condition and features of the necklace is clearly specified.
STO, CO, RMT games and what not are not fraudulent as long as they clearly tell you what you are paying for.
On the other hand, if a company tell you “their box contain a mount” but you don’t pull a mount out of the box then it is a scam. If a company tell you “you can get a puppy bag by fishing 1000 coupons” but you find out it takes 250 days to get the 1000 coupons where the fishing event only runs for 30 days then you know it is a scam.
I think what is fraudulent and a scam is so obvious. It has nothing to do with RMT, cash shops, monthly fees, expansions and what not. It is whether us players are getting exactly what the mmo tell us we will be getting.
I agree....on all counts.
As a matter of fact, I just saw another thread where people were bitching about having to pay even a monthly fee for MMOs, and whining that, in particular Blizzard, has "made enough money already," and that they should lower their cost. All of the money should just go to updating and maintaining the game, and adding content....they shouldn't be really MAKING MONEY off of it....
/facepalm
I think people who don't work, or perhaps have never worked, or just simply don't understand supply and demand, economics, or finances....can understand that games, while being a great recreational activity....are also a business.
The same people you see whining here....have no problem with the price of Super Bowl tickets, and the fact that THEY don't include your hot dogs and beer....hello, McFly..... It's okay for athletes to make absolutely stupid amounts of money and even be on a team that is constantly LOSING, but let someone who makes their money on CREATIVITY (not sports) be getting rich....
Those same people get all bent out of shape.
EDIT: Sorry I don't see the "fraudulent" nature of RMT either. No one is breaking your arm and MAKING you buy anything....I don't get it.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I can't help but laugh and shake my heads at the people who keep stating that businesses are businesses and they have a right to do whatever they want, however they want, to make money. Additionally, that if any consumer has a problem with that, they should essentially just keep their mouths shut and go somewhere else.
It's the above kind of attitude that causes a lot of industries to cycle between boom and bust so dramatically that it causes more harm than good. Without consumer feedback, meaning more than simply choosing whether or not to purchase something, then businesses start guessing at what consumers want. Over time, the perceived consumer expectations drift away from real expectations. Despite people still buying certain products, they may still be growing less and less content. Until eventually either competition comes out to fill that niche, or something else happens to drastically shift the market, and then the businesses who have come out of alignment with their customer's desires are stuck out in the cold.
The auto industry is the perfect example. For years many North American car manufacturers continued to churn out expensive, large, gas guzzling cars. Why? Because they thought they could keep selling them that way, and those types of cars were the largest profit margin for them to produce. Despite this, consumers had been over time growing more conscious of raising gas prices. In a combination of both the latest economic downturn, which occurred directly after the highest oil/gas prices ever, caused a huge shift in the market. Those huge, expensive, gas guzzling cars would barely sell anymore. Most consumers wanted more economical, fuel efficient cars now, but the industry was too deeply rooted in their current manufacturing methods to shift quickly enough, not to mention were hemorrhaging money due to their severe drop off in sales with the market shift.
So tl;dr, yes companies have every right to do or charge whatever they want, however they want. But consumers also have the right to tell said companies why they feel they're wrong for doing so. If the companies don't want to listen, that's their choice, but when the market shifts and they're left out in the cold for no longer meeting the market's new demands, they only have themselves to blame for not considering consumer criticism.
I agree....on all counts.
As a matter of fact, I just saw another thread where people were bitching about having to pay even a monthly fee for MMOs, and whining that, in particular Blizzard, has "made enough money already," and that they should lower their cost. All of the money should just go to updating and maintaining the game, and adding content....they shouldn't be really MAKING MONEY off of it....
/facepalm
I think people who don't work, or perhaps have never worked, or just simply don't understand supply and demand, economics, or finances....can understand that games, while being a great recreational activity....are also a business.
The same people you see whining here....have no problem with the price of Super Bowl tickets, and the fact that THEY don't include your hot dogs and beer....hello, McFly..... It's okay for athletes to make absolutely stupid amounts of money and even be on a team that is constantly LOSING, but let someone who makes their money on CREATIVITY (not sports) be getting rich....
Those same people get all bent out of shape.
EDIT: Sorry I don't see the "fraudulent" nature of RMT either. No one is breaking your arm and MAKING you buy anything....I don't get it.
Maybe the game studios have been taken over by aliens and are doing the usual hijinx to con us into buying a game we would otherwise already buy, based on a fluffy pet that we will have access to in game, but otherwise holds no value to our gameplay of said game. Or maybe they are offering tshirts in game, in a fantasy setting. You know, wouldn't it be rad that I had a tshirt while wearing otherwise impossible armour? Or wait, maybe there is a huge (read aroudn 100 employee or so, max) studio out there that will cater to all of my personal demands?! Why hasn't the one of 20 or so GMs ,in a game of hundreds of thousands of players, solved global pollution in an hour or less, by golly! Why, why?! It MUST BE A CONSPIRACY TO EXTRACT THE DOLLAR FROM THE STUPID FOLK!!!!
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Tried- L2, Ryzom, WAR, DDO, PWI, Tab Rasa, Requiem, Champs, AA, JD, PWI, SUN, Dawntide
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"Hey, if Activision liked it, then they should have put a ring on it," Double Fine President Tim Schafer said. "Oh great, now Beyonce is going to sue me too."
I guess some of you people just don't have enough self control to only spend your money on things you want to spend it on. There's really no point in having this discussion with people who lack even the intelligence to control their own damn pocket book.
Those of us that understand a business is a business....also understand that we have a right to choose where we spend our money. I've never said it's not okay to bitch about whatever you want. But don't expect all of your bitching to cause businesses to cease wanting to make money. Your bitching is useless. The way you make a statement is with YOUR money. Spend it where you think it is most wisely spent.
And if I'M the stupid one for saying that....lol....I think we have some problems with logic and reasoning on these forums.....
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club