Wurm too, by the way. The most sanboxy MMORPG I know. ATitD is p2p as well as LOVE, which is in beta.
I think you weight character customization a bit too much, it's just one feature of sanboxes and doesn't stand out anymore than other features. Well, that's my opinion anyway.
Well that's debatable.
IN games like Eve, Ryzom and Darkfall Character development is infinite.
Older games like SWG and UO had skill caps but you could easily re-template so that was a very big part of the game.
I would go so far as to say Character development is the biggest part of the game for many people.
Look at ta game like Ryzom it lacks many features but the reason people play it is because filling that skill tree takes years.
Where most sandbox games lack in "content" they make up in character development and tools.
I believe the term "Sandbox" was lost in translation. The beauty of UO was you could set up a tent on the side of the road from Britain and Yew and demand tolls from every passerby. If they refused, kill them, take their weapons and gold. If they complied, it creates fun RP. What made UO special is that it provided you with the tools to make you own world inside of the PERSISTENT world inside of UO.
I also believe Wurm should be on top of your list, if not close. Wurm provides you with the tools - or you have to actually craft them - and you build your own world.
Originally posted by Craggur I also believe Wurm should be on top of your list, if not close. Wurm provides you with the tools - or you have to actually craft them - and you build your own world.
Very true! I honestly believe that Wurm Online is the MMORPG which got the closest to the term "Sandbox"! Too bad its bleeding from several wounds...
Haven & Hearth Kinda like Wurm online but browser based. Tale in the Desert IV Sandbox like game set in ancient Egypt. Roma Victor I am not 100% since I've never played, but I've heard it has a steep learning curve, deep crafting system and some consider it as a sandbox. Eternal Lands To me it is one. No classes, many skills and stuff to do.
Very Nice!!! Im gonna give a quick read about these games and toss them up.
In my opinion, Vanguard fits perfectly this hybrid theme. A Tale in the Desert and LOVE are couple you didn't mention.
I've never heard of Love and I wasn't aware of Tale of the desert being a hybrid or sandbox. I assumed it was just a crafting game.
Ill do some research on both games.
Damn... this list is going to be getting long since we have many opinions on what a Hybrid actually is.
Almost all games outside of Second Life can be called sandbox/themepark hybrids.
What differentiates them is the amount of sandbox type features they contain and freedom of character progresion.
On the side of games that are heavy with sandbox type features you have UO, DFO, EVE etc, while on the side of games that are more linear and have less emphasis on sandbox game play you have WOW, EQ2 etc.
Fallen Earth and Vanguard probably fall somewhere in the middle of the two sides.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If Fallen Earth is listed as a sandbox hybrid, then Vanguard should be there as well. The games in their gameplay design are basically the same (quest driven leveling, open zoneless world, crafting separated from adventuring, leveling gives points you distribute among attributes to name a few).
Apples and Oranges
Cats and Dogs
Fallen Earth is a bit different than Vanguard
The big thing is how characters are handled;
Vanguard is a CLASS BASED game; where you have minor stat distribution
Fallen Earth is purely a STAT BASED game where no 2 characters are ever the same (unless someone posts their build and is copied)
Also FE has a meaningful faction system and VG does not
Not bad mouthing VG,I played Vanguard from launch to just recently (and had fun for a while), but they are seriously nothing alike.
Honestly guys when it comes to sandbox the real limiting factor is class. Even if I have a list a skills to "grind" if I am a warrior and cant ever cast a spell without respecing (or based on the class:palidan,dread knigh,ect) it just simply is not sand box!
VG has a class system and yes distributable stat points and If i remeber corectly you also have skills that can be worked through usage. BUT and it is a HUGE but a warrior is always a warrior and never a necromancer.
In the big original sandbox UO, you could be a palidan taming necro mage or a straight warior a mage decked out to the gills with just mage bonus skills or any combonation you chose.
The main idea is the limiting factors. IF you are limited by a choice and that choice closes off a larger portion of posible feature it no longer "fits" sandbox.
Take a look at FE. Ok now there are no class restrictions. But the entire game world revolves around a very specific quest driven system. Literally without it, it would take you 50 times longer to level your toon. But again the fact that makes it remain a sandbox is you can chose your skills per "lvl up"(which is weird but stil acceptable) or through actions and there is no "If I take up rifle I cant also be a pistoleer". The choice is maybe that in the end you wont be as effective but that choice is not in the developers hands but the players.
Features like open world or player housing are not sandbox simply because you may does not mean you can. Now if we only close the door to instances via lvl cap or even class restictions(in eve certain zones are closed off because of ship size) does this remove the sand from the box. NO. Even when you can run head long into lvl 80 material as a lvl 10 it does not mean you are free to do so. Look In UO as a fresh out of the box noob you not just may but actualy can walk up and fight and slay the dragon if you do it right. Im not talking exploit but simply based on a single skill or group of sub par skills.
Hybrid?
Now thats a notion that seems a little strange to me. Yes a game may have "features" that a sandbox can have but without real freedom to make a class out of any of the particular skills/abilitys reguardless of a "cap"(the only avalible limit that classifies as sandbox) you are playing a "themed" title.
Haven & Hearth is beta and currently free/opensource, no microtransactions.
It's also closer to a real sandbox than a hybrid. btw can you add links? and maybe make different categories for sandbox , hybrid and "special" for stuff like Second Life?
edit: I'd define fully sandbox as:
- no classes
- many non-combat activities
- rich and persistant interaction with the world (building, terraforming, etc.)
With the crazy amount of games that could be tossed on the list and certain games still up for debate once I get the list down Ill reformat everything with links.
I'm still looking for info on Love and whether people think DDO and GW would be considered "Hybrids".
Also would like to know what people think of certain obscure titles like Face of Mankind and Neocron.
Ill continue to add to the list overtime and format the games by Sub genre and Payment model once the list is complete (which could take a while lol!).
Comments
Well that's debatable.
IN games like Eve, Ryzom and Darkfall Character development is infinite.
Older games like SWG and UO had skill caps but you could easily re-template so that was a very big part of the game.
I would go so far as to say Character development is the biggest part of the game for many people.
Look at ta game like Ryzom it lacks many features but the reason people play it is because filling that skill tree takes years.
Where most sandbox games lack in "content" they make up in character development and tools.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Saga of Ryzom is on the list and a very good game btw
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
That's probably very much true. Wurm is p2p/f2p, but f2p experience is limited.
Meh, i fail
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
I believe the term "Sandbox" was lost in translation. The beauty of UO was you could set up a tent on the side of the road from Britain and Yew and demand tolls from every passerby. If they refused, kill them, take their weapons and gold. If they complied, it creates fun RP. What made UO special is that it provided you with the tools to make you own world inside of the PERSISTENT world inside of UO.
I also believe Wurm should be on top of your list, if not close. Wurm provides you with the tools - or you have to actually craft them - and you build your own world.
Play a role! Shadowclan
Haven & Hearth
Kinda like Wurm online but browser based.
Tale in the Desert IV
Sandbox like game set in ancient Egypt.
Roma Victor
I am not 100% since I've never played, but I've heard it has a steep learning curve, deep crafting system and some consider it as a sandbox.
Eternal Lands
To me it is one. No classes, many skills and stuff to do.
"Ad astra per aspera."
Very true! I honestly believe that Wurm Online is the MMORPG which got the closest to the term "Sandbox"! Too bad its bleeding from several wounds...
"Ad astra per aspera."
Any list that has UO and AO on it needs to have Asheron's Call.
Huge open world, no classes, it fits right into your list.
Very Nice!!! Im gonna give a quick read about these games and toss them up.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I've never heard of Love and I wasn't aware of Tale of the desert being a hybrid or sandbox. I assumed it was just a crafting game.
Ill do some research on both games.
Damn... this list is going to be getting long since we have many opinions on what a Hybrid actually is.
Almost all games outside of Second Life can be called sandbox/themepark hybrids.
What differentiates them is the amount of sandbox type features they contain and freedom of character progresion.
On the side of games that are heavy with sandbox type features you have UO, DFO, EVE etc, while on the side of games that are more linear and have less emphasis on sandbox game play you have WOW, EQ2 etc.
Fallen Earth and Vanguard probably fall somewhere in the middle of the two sides.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Apples and Oranges
Cats and Dogs
Fallen Earth is a bit different than Vanguard
The big thing is how characters are handled;
Vanguard is a CLASS BASED game; where you have minor stat distribution
Fallen Earth is purely a STAT BASED game where no 2 characters are ever the same (unless someone posts their build and is copied)
Also FE has a meaningful faction system and VG does not
Not bad mouthing VG,I played Vanguard from launch to just recently (and had fun for a while), but they are seriously nothing alike.
VG:FE as WoW:EVE
Seriously!
Honestly guys when it comes to sandbox the real limiting factor is class. Even if I have a list a skills to "grind" if I am a warrior and cant ever cast a spell without respecing (or based on the class:palidan,dread knigh,ect) it just simply is not sand box!
VG has a class system and yes distributable stat points and If i remeber corectly you also have skills that can be worked through usage. BUT and it is a HUGE but a warrior is always a warrior and never a necromancer.
In the big original sandbox UO, you could be a palidan taming necro mage or a straight warior a mage decked out to the gills with just mage bonus skills or any combonation you chose.
The main idea is the limiting factors. IF you are limited by a choice and that choice closes off a larger portion of posible feature it no longer "fits" sandbox.
Take a look at FE. Ok now there are no class restrictions. But the entire game world revolves around a very specific quest driven system. Literally without it, it would take you 50 times longer to level your toon. But again the fact that makes it remain a sandbox is you can chose your skills per "lvl up"(which is weird but stil acceptable) or through actions and there is no "If I take up rifle I cant also be a pistoleer". The choice is maybe that in the end you wont be as effective but that choice is not in the developers hands but the players.
Features like open world or player housing are not sandbox simply because you may does not mean you can. Now if we only close the door to instances via lvl cap or even class restictions(in eve certain zones are closed off because of ship size) does this remove the sand from the box. NO. Even when you can run head long into lvl 80 material as a lvl 10 it does not mean you are free to do so. Look In UO as a fresh out of the box noob you not just may but actualy can walk up and fight and slay the dragon if you do it right. Im not talking exploit but simply based on a single skill or group of sub par skills.
Hybrid?
Now thats a notion that seems a little strange to me. Yes a game may have "features" that a sandbox can have but without real freedom to make a class out of any of the particular skills/abilitys reguardless of a "cap"(the only avalible limit that classifies as sandbox) you are playing a "themed" title.
Still in development, but you might want to add Dawntide to that list.
Edit: Just ignore me, it's already on there /slapsforehead
However, devs have indicated that is subscription based and not F2P or MT.
Haven & Hearth is beta and currently free/opensource, no microtransactions.
It's also closer to a real sandbox than a hybrid.
btw can you add links? and maybe make different categories for sandbox , hybrid and "special" for stuff like Second Life?
edit: I'd define fully sandbox as:
- no classes
- many non-combat activities
- rich and persistant interaction with the world (building, terraforming, etc.)
Hype train -> Reality
OK I wasn't sure about the Payment they were using thank you for the info
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Oh, and Perpetuum and Mortal Online are also beta.
Hype train -> Reality
With the crazy amount of games that could be tossed on the list and certain games still up for debate once I get the list down Ill reformat everything with links.
I'm still looking for info on Love and whether people think DDO and GW would be considered "Hybrids".
Also would like to know what people think of certain obscure titles like Face of Mankind and Neocron.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I think Wurm Online is free
Added Links to the main post.
Ill continue to add to the list overtime and format the games by Sub genre and Payment model once the list is complete (which could take a while lol!).
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
It was good but it's long gone. This thread is about games you can or you will be able to play.
Not sure what you mean by "long gone". The game is still up and running. Thousands play. I been playing that game since 03. So update your thread.