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How Do You Feel About Having To "Buy" Zones In MMOs?
Dawnherald
Member Posts: 146
Personally I am disgusted by it. And, yes, this only really applies to P2P MMOs, although a few F2P ones are guilty too.
It is a ridiculously short sighted and hilariously idiotic business model, which not only splits the playerbase ( making players feel like there're less people around, and therefore making them more likely to quit ) but also makes player's feel as though they're being nickel and dime'd, which is NEVER a good thing.
Now, expansion packs don't count in this ( except when they're VERY badly done ), as the company tries to keep low level / community zones filled with players ( this is the reason the WoW devs won't put banks / auction houses in Dalaran ) and tries to offer more than a few zones as an incentive. Nevermind the fact that players get a block of high level zones, instead of trying to pick the most popular one.
But, what do you all think of all this?
( Rant brought to you by Star Trek Online's dearth of interesting content, with Cryptic soon to be selling zones, and Champions Online's Vibora Bay, filling content gaps for $$$ since 2010. )
Comments
That is one of my top 3 dealbreaking issues
and (one of) the reasons why i steer clear from all cryptic's games
Everyone was fine with DDO doing it a few weeks ago, has the hate-train jumped stations already?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Selling zones is how P2P has always made money. What do you think they were doing when they charged $50 up front? Selling you the zones. What do you think that expansion pack is? Selling you zones.
P2P has always done this, and since millions (if not billions) are beating there door down for these products... I cant see them stopping.
name just one P2P that released an expansion that was simply "a zone"
also, the initial product was "some zones" and thats it? for the love of god, tell me what P2P do you play so i can avoid it like the plague. the ones I played had, you know, lore, classes, races, quests, gameplay, sieges, gear, raids...
name just one P2P that released an expansion that was simply "a zone"
I have to agree with arcdevil. That post is full of crap.
Xpacs do have zones, as they're gameplay additions. They also tend to add classes, missions in existing areas, abilities, all sorts of bugfixes, new forms of travel, possibly add a few races and generally add on to everything already there all in one package that the dev feels is worth money.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
SWG.
~and yes, yes, you all hate SOE - I get it.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
name just one P2P that released an expansion that was simply "a zone"
also, the initial product was "some zones" and thats it? for the love of god, tell me what P2P do you play so i can avoid it like the plague. the ones I played had, you know, lore, classes, races, quests, gameplay, sieges, gear, raids...
There were several expansions for EverQuest that were only zones.
You could also argue that some of the WoW expansions were only zones, as the rest of the changes were available WITHOUT the expansion.
The bottom line is that P2P sells content. Be it zones, races, classes, etc. This is what they are selling. Dont like it? Then move to F2P, where some of that stuff is free.
I guess your next argument is that all the base client is being sold for is zones, races and classes. :rolleyes:
Also, EQ has had 14 expansions. That's hardly a viable argument.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
I guess your next argument is that all the base client is being sold for is zones, races and classes. :rolleyes:
Also, EQ has had 14 expansions. That's hardly a viable argument.
So, you are saying that since an MMO has been doing it for over 10 years, and is one of the games that has defined the market as a whole... that it has no bearing on this?
The definition of P2P is that you pay BEFORE you get to play. I can show many examples of this (and have given clear explanations)... but can you show examples of P2P that do NOT charge for content?
He's talking about P2P games. DDO is no longer a pure P2P game. Its A Freemium game. You can either play for Free and pay for additional content packs (though you dont have too you can play through the free stuff and repeat it in order to reach max) OR you can pay the standard monthly Fee of a P2P and get complete access to all the zones along with a few free Points to spend on the shop every month.
You should learn to read the entire post before posting...because you kinda ... well your post makes no sense in the context.
I think what Cryptic is doing is utter bullcrap. You pay for the game, you pay a fee, you knwo since the game is launching there's a lot of content missing and expect like all previous games you get some free add ons for the first year then get an expansion thats large and robust. Not a measly zone that covers 3 levels of game play.
btw yes SOE did it with Everquest 2 but after the third one they figured out pretty fast that the idea was falling on its face and the community hated it which is why they've done nothing but full Expansions or Freebies.
Yes, he called out F2P ones on it too. L2R yourself, stooge.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
You fail to win this argument.
Check out the MUD I'm making!
IMHO
i believe that companies should not be doing this. Look at STO. they make you buy the game, then you pay a monthly sub, then they say "if you want everything you have to pay a little more." If you want the full STO experience then you have to buy the klingon and Ferengi pack. Its pure money grabbing. I play Champions and i refuse to pay for another zone. Bring it out as an expansion or something but dont exempt players because they wont pay another $15 for the zone. I actually dont mind it if its cosmetic, like costumes or something like that but as soon as it effects game play like another zone, i think its greed and a good way to alienate your player base.
So somehow paying 50 dollars for a box and 15 dollars a month, AS WELL AS 50 bucks for an expansion does NOT count as "buying zones?"
Yeh, that makes sense.
Just because the OP seems to think that paying for all that doesn't count does not mean that it doesn't. I love how many F2P enemies seem to think that paying for extra lands, character slots or new quests do not count as the same thing as buying something out of a cash shop. There is absolutely no difference, save for packaging.
Beau
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i think the pay as you go method works ok for ddo
no way i'd be using anything of the sort if it was extra to a sub
I will start with... your ability to quote could be greatly improved. I will fix this, so that it can be followed.
So, you are saying that it isn't the practice, but the price. If they were to charge less, it would be ok.
You have referenced several F2P games (supporting MY statement, not yours) one P2P that has a small fee (I guessing you are going with, if it is cheap, it doesn't count)and two that even you don't know about. So, yes you could continue... but you would just point out that by definition P2P charges for stuff... and that stuff is content.
You have also tried to argue that their fees are 'justified' in some way, and as such should not be considered as fees.
None of this matters. It is a commercial deal. Quid pro quo. This goes back a few thousand years... but I am guessing that you will argue what this doesnt apply either, because it is only a 'little money'. What, 30 pieces of silver?
SWG.
~and yes, yes, you all hate SOE - I get it.
Ahahaha. Are you seriously comparing entire planets worth of content to a single zone aimed at mid-level players?
EDIT:
Also the EQ expansion packs and EQ2 adventure packs are an antirely unfair comparison. CO was literally missing content for 37-40. You could try to do harder missions or easier missions but there was a big roadblock right there. It would be entirely different if you could easily level without ever visiting Vibroa Bay. But they way it's set up you basically have to go there or suffer a much more painful levelling experience. That is low. The EQ2 adventure packs (which were multiple zones) were more flavour. Not owning them didn't hinder your playing at all, it was just extra stuff to do. As for EQ, I don't know I looked at the expansions on wikipedia they all seemed to have decent amounts of content for an expansion. And again, unless the expansion raised the level cap or something you could play without buying the expansion. It's basically content that should be in the game already. Like the races in STO. And while they prodive you with $10, as soon as more content comes along you are going to have to pay for that. The STO races should have been free .. but that's how cryptic works
name just one P2P that released an expansion that was simply "a zone"
also, the initial product was "some zones" and thats it? for the love of god, tell me what P2P do you play so i can avoid it like the plague. the ones I played had, you know, lore, classes, races, quests, gameplay, sieges, gear, raids...
There were several expansions for EverQuest that were only zones.
You could also argue that some of the WoW expansions were only zones, as the rest of the changes were available WITHOUT the expansion.
The bottom line is that P2P sells content. Be it zones, races, classes, etc. This is what they are selling. Dont like it? Then move to F2P, where some of that stuff is free.
I think you know what people are talking about, but you're being silly about the subject. At it's very base, an expansion pack will be multile zones, or an entire continent. That's what WoW did with their expansions (though if I'm not mistaken, they added races, classes and professions as well. Claiming that those things were available without the expansion pack is simply incorrect. Go ahead, get an account with the basic WoW client and no expansions and then try to roll a Blood Elf death knight.)
What the OP is referring to is selling single, individual zones in some sort of store like what Cryptic is doing with Vibora Pay. You know this very well, or else you didn't bother to read the OP's post before chiming in.
No, those things are actually nothing like buying zones on an individual basis at all actually. Those are content packs that have much more content than a single individual zone.
Not to mention that people pay the $15 fee so that parts of the game lacking in content can get new content made.
This
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I don't mind paying to access zones in F2P/Freemium games. Hell, most of them give you a choice of either paying monthly to access everything, or buying it piecemeal, the latter of which is oftentimes a better option for a casual player or someone without a predictable/stable monthly income.
That being said, I think it's completely ridiculous for a company which only offers a subscription based service to force already paying customers to pay MORE to access content which should have been covered by the sub fee, or even the initial purchase price. Especially when said content is intended to fix a gap which has been there since launch day, or includes features which were promised to players even before launch.
In short it's greedy, borderline unethical, and any company which does it certainly isn't getting my money.
Depends on the sub method used by the game. It doesn't bother me in DDO because you can either pay a monthly fee to have access to everything, not pay a monthly sub and simply buy adventure packs that you might prefer, or not buy any at all and either earn points by playing in game to purchase what you want, or just deal with what is available for free.
In a game that expects a monthly sub I'm a bit more sceptical when they're charging for extra content. If the extra content includes additional levels, zones, additional raid material, other niceties then I don't really mind. If the extra content is simply filler for the original game that actually provides missing endgame material for the original product or content needed to level to the original goal of the game without repeating what was originally planned as the end goal then I cry foul. At that point they're simply charging extra for what should have been initially included in the game or at least provided by the original cost of the game and recurring monthly subs for its customers.
As for cash shops in f2p games they don't bother me at all except in games where they make PvP if that is a focus of the game an absolute joke.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Superman0X, I actually found it harder to read your quotations than Johnmatthais. I also don't know or care about what you two are arguing about. Anyway...
I feel angrily towards any sort of nickeling and diming. I much prefer to pay for solid, obvious things. When I buy an expansion pack, I want a box, and a new little CD sitting somewhere in my house.
If someone were to say to me "Oh, you can't go here. It's $2 to go here." I would probably just not go there.
Of course, developers can do whatever the hell they want, and if they were upfront about it all I wouldn't have a problem with it. But what Cryptic seems to be doing to the player base is Tiger Woods'ing them pretty hard in their wallets.
I am playing EVE and it's alright... level V skills are a bit much.
You all need to learn to spell.
utter crap and a deal breaker for me.
Although technically we do end up paying for new zones in expansions.
MMO wish list:
-Changeable worlds
-Solid non level based game
-Sharks with lasers attached to their heads
I think that it is unfair for pay to play games to ever charge for zones. The thing is, we are already paying for a subscription to the game. Paying for more than the subscription means that we are better off being nickel and dimed by a free to play game. At least then there is no added monthly charge.
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