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General: 5, 9, F2P, a Million and More
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com's Free Zone columnist Richard Aihoshi takes a look at the recent downsizing at Red 5 Studios, Star Trek Online and more in this week's article.
Will 5 and 9 add up to F2P?
Late last month, Red 5 Studios issued a brief press release confirming what had been rumored for some time, that it was headed for a downsizing. The statement didn't provide anything at all in terms of details. It said only that there had been a restructuring involving "additional investment from a strategic partner in the online games industry", that some people had chosen to leave, and that others had been let go. A quick glimpse at the company's website shows 32 pictures of staff. I never counted before, but I'd wager there used to be at least 50 or 60.
Last week, Reuters reported that Chinese publisher The9 has invested in two developers, one being Red 5. The information was attributed to a company source, but it has yet to be confirmed. Coincidentally, Red 5 was formed about five years ago by former senior members of the World of Warcraft team including Mark Kern and Bill Petras, while The9 operated the game in China until it lost the license to NetEase in mid-2009.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
What do you mean with "especially considering half of WoW's so-called subscribers don't pay a monthly fee now anyway."?
"It's not that I'm so smart; it's just that I stay with problems longer."
-- Albert Einstein
I was just thinking the same thing.
I normally don't post here but this caught my I... and I echo the previous comments. What exactly do you mean by that?
My only assumption is that the numbers blizz puts out includes banned, "frozen", and trial accounts? That way they can say "We Have 11 Million Accounts!" instead of "We have 5 million Active Users!"
/pure speculation, of course.
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I believe that he is referring to the fact that even when blizz was claiming 11.5 million active users, which I don't argue with, only 4.5 million, by Blizz's own count were from NA/Europe. The rest were predominantly, though not only, from Asian countries that tend to not use the monthly sub model. They use a pay by the hour model. He's not claiming that WoW was an item mall game over there, only that they did not use what NA/Europe tends to think of as the "traditional" payment model.
Atari backpedalled on the 1 million subs for STO too, its 1 million signups to cryptic websites, and as its a universal signup....
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html
I'm guessing a good portion of the accounts are from china where the subscription model is different (they buy xx amount of playtime which subtracts everytime the account logs on.
Sorry if i'm wrong.
The problem is Richard that most MMO's don't survive well without a decent pvp segment. A f2p game on the other hand has major issues when purchased items effect pvp. While I do play several f2p games, I most definitely don't pvp in them for that very reason.
So while it is quite possibly true that Red 5 or Blizzard's next release will have major f2p segments, it will be interesting how they handle the pvp aspect of the game. Letting item shop items have an affect on pvp will definitely hurt the size of the playerbase they attract, in my opinion of course.
We will just have to wait and see.
IMO, If developers would put in a dual model similar to DDO, but more on the strict side. e.g. No items, xp boosts, nothing that is not purely cosmetic in other words, but DO offer the game through X level, after which you have 2 choices:
A: Pay monthly for ALL available content. (and I do mean ALL) Even if the cost is slightly higher for a quality game. For Example, I would gladly pay $19.99 per/month on a yearly basis for access to every bit of content in the game at will. The costs would have to be respective of quality.
B: Pay per content. (specific level zone content) per month. If you can only play 3 hours a day, but level x-x content @ X$ for X days.
This way, no pay your way to the top, also no argument about, playing less but paying the same amount (which I disagree with, If you and I pay the same we are equal IMO, it should not matter If you can play 12 hours a day and I can play 3, we should both still be charged the same amount). It is my own personal MMO Billing unification theory. I call it PayToPlayativity. ^_^
some have country get a time card system a la maplestory and all of those!
Well for one thing if Blizzard tries to claim they have 11.5 million active users,they are not to be trusted for their word ever again.
This would be assuming ONE user per account,witch anyone with any common sense at all knows RMT makes that impossible and there is tons of multi boxers in WOW ,i mean TONS !.Also botters to witch there is thousands in WOW means again one person could control several accounts.
I would believe the number of 4.5 million active users,that would make sense and a number i personally came up with a few months ago when i tried to break down actual WOW accounts.I however never believed Blizzard from day 1,they will of course PRETEND to have 11.5 million when they know full well this is not true,especially since they have tools in place to monitor all users activities.
The funny thing when you read Blizzard advertising is they ALWAYS talk about their sub numbers or VAGUE statements,they NEVER talk specifics or facts.
I look at FACTS to determine a developers actual standing.I look at Blizzard,if they truly had that many accounts paying all those millions they would have the best staff and best gaming engine on the planet,the truth is they have neither.They would also have several gaming divisions,How is that Square Enix can operate twice the size operation with 7+ gaming divisions and Blizzard is lucky to form two?I think the truth is that somebody is lying here.How is it that Blizzard NEEDED to take on Activision?Since when does the top dog need help?
Why would Blizzard have to hire outside help to develop their SC:Ghost for the console?You would think a giant ,with that much money and the studios they have in place,they would not need any help at all.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
it might not be f2p at all,but remember that asian gamer are netbars fan!
we dont have that mostly here in america the closest are probably arcade or some like starbuck!
but room full of computer for gamer saw that once!there its legion !thereare countless of them netbars in asia!
http://event51.wanmei.com/shenmo/201001/netbarshow/
this is a show event so it is a netbar of a kind !
similar to when blizzard did their annual but it give an idea
I don't think Blizzard has lied about their numbers, you'll notice that when they started to have a decline in users in NA / EU they stopped providing a territory breakdown of their numbers. Also we having had a new number out of them in sometime, so I'm sure it isn't 11.5 million any more, when you consider the issues they've had since moving to Netease and the release of Aion in China, both of which are going to hurt their numbers.
But Richard is right, that in China it isn't a monthly sub, its pay per minute, so you can't really say it is the same. I would however say pay per minute or pay per hour, is closer to the subscription model than the item shop model, as you are still paying for game time not virtual items.
There is no way most developers want to charge for CONTENT, most of them are charging for imaginary virtual items like mounts, cool looking stuff and advantages in gameplay such as resources, xp/att enchancers, etc.
So, which would you like to do? Develop a $10 area of content (has to design area, monsters, quests, drops, etc) or sell a box with a roulette between around 10 items including trash for $10 EACH? Pretty obvious for money-hungry companies with small development teams and low budget MMOs that are released into several different versions worldwide.
Obviously there are developers that are still doing their job decently, as in selling content instead of items.
The example of Mr. Aihoshi already makes it clear - F2P company takes control of a development studios and starts by getting rid of half of the team.
And as far as my thoughts go if you pay per hour played instead of month played you still are in a P2P game, the only difference if the unit of time used.
I suspect he is referring to the Asian countries. Many of them use internet cafes to play.
Because half of the 11m players number coming from chinesse players and they were paying per hour ,wow is not P2play at china (and some other countries like vietnam iirc)
Which is why I only support developers who push content over fluff filler. I would give my money to BioWare, Blizzard, PlayNC, because they are proven to make games I deem full of content and worth the money. My point was there should be multiple payment models to accomodate multiple types of players similar to what blizzard has done. Hourly for asian markets, monthly for US/EU, etc...
Well, I think it would be best in MMOs would offer both types of payments
eg, you can buy 60 gameplay hours for 15 USD, or you can buy 1 month of gameplay for that.
It would be more casual player friendly.
hmm if is the pay by time its still P2P like someone else said here, in my country ragnarok have the play by time(or at least it have its been 4 years I don't play rag) and its still P2P.
and stop stating the "strenghing tides" of F2P, F2P games don't have any pvp worth to play enough in most time, some can keep some balance but a lot of then don't, motive i'm playin aion now is for a descent pvp game not a pay to win game, F2P games are mostly for PvE content and a lot of this games lack it also, and also forget DDO they developed the game primary to be P2P but then people leave and change his paying methods to gather more players, but since a lot of quest need you to pay for then its still separed free players to paying player what in IMHO is bad for a game,
Star trek have a huge fan base so for now its ok, I want to see waht criptic will do to spoil everyone
I still rofl at the 1 million subs that sto got, he he. They have a single shard server and if you think they can support 1 million folks signing in i would love to see them try.
This is correct. The majority of WoW subscribers (at peak) did not pay a monthly fee. They paid using an hourly/minute model. This throws off the numbers, because as long as someone logs into an account for a single time in a month, they are considered active. We will not even go into the difference in cost.
In many parts of the world, a recurring monthly fee is illegal(it is considered fraud). This is because of the classic 'forget/refuse to stop charging' scam that AOL used to pull, and because the fact that 'unlimited' time is not considered a real amount.. This is why games in these countries use a hourly fee, rather than a flat monthly charge. It is also common that individuals are also paying an hourly fee to access the web.
This is correct. The majority of WoW subscribers (at peak) did not pay a monthly fee. They paid using an hourly/minute model. This throws off the numbers, because as long as someone logs into an account for a single time in a month, they are considered active. We will not even go into the difference in cost.
In many parts of the world, a recurring monthly fee is illegal(it is considered fraud). This is because of the classic 'forget/refuse to stop charging' scam that AOL used to pull, and because the fact that 'unlimited' time is not considered a real amount.. This is why games in these countries use a hourly fee, rather than a flat monthly charge. It is also common that individuals are also paying an hourly fee to access the web.
Never the less the statement is intentionally misleading in an attempt to thwart the P2P model and praise the F2P model for which Mr Aihoshi well known.
Whether they pay monthly or by the hour, it is still a P2P subscription model and has nothing in common with the F2P model as the OP might lead us to believe. Mr Aihoshi is attempting to use that as a tie in to suggest the F2P model is the better choice world wide. Since half of WoW's players were not paying a monthly sub, F2P must be the better model. How can you take a guy that uses that kind of rationale seriously?
Couple that with the fact that Mr Aihoshi's articles are full of wild unfounded speculation, and unverifiable sources many times and it makes it hard to read his articles without cynicism.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
The F2P market is expanding in the west, like it or not. Its not all the same old cookie cutter, low quality junk that it was for all too many years. Last, if you don't like his column, why do you insist on reading it?
The F2P market is expanding in the west, like it or not. Its not all the same old cookie cutter, low quality junk that it was for all too many years. Last, if you don't like his column, why do you insist on reading it?
Like anyone in a sane state that works with this revenue model would talk negatively about its growth. It's a PR, you don't talk bad unless it's the last one, especially when it's a column dedicated to it, by praising one revenue model over the other one you are eventually generating reason for people to defend the other model.
Same could be said about people against P2P, and off we go in this speculative war with no unbiased data though I don't see "The P2P Zone" column playing the other side. It's a one-sided column with no antagonist one, so people can only voice their opinions here, even the writer occasionally attacks those that dislike F2P in his column. I somehow understand why he doesn't reply to comments over here, his own MMORPG.com account being zero-posts.
A weekly debate column could be a lot more interesting and better informative than a weekly "informal PR" column.
Other than DDO and Allods Online ( and Allods Online has yet to be determined ), yes it IS still that same old cookie cutter, low quality junk.
So I can insult his opinions, point out the inaccuracies in his bullshit and laugh at him as he bumbles along attempting to promote the F2P model above all others?
Add to that the fact that DDO was developed with P2P financial backing, and was P2P for quite awhile before going to F2P. Even as a F2P game, it is a significantly different model than your typical F2P model.
I still consider DDO more of a P2P game simply because of the fact that the things that you pay for are content related for the most part rather than significant item enhancements necessary for advancement so prevalent in most F2P models. So in essence you are still paying to pay, and access content as your would in a monthly sub game. DDO shares more in common with the western P2P models and the eastern P2P models than the F2P models IMO.
Allods I cannot speak on as I have no experience with that MMO.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
well true the ayoshi dude only work on rumors, and I still think he should look for a better source for infos.
on allods case since its on Gpotatos hands and from previous data I saw it will be F2P, and allods ever since I saw the name I remember the game rage of mages from a russian producer and when I take a look its was from the same game so I was hoping for it, and till its done and out on the market not in beta can't be said anything.
DDO like I said before can't be used to say the F2P market is getting better because its was for a P2P mode before, now its just look like a unlimited trial with cash shop.
I know some F2P have a some good quality, but a lot of then have no balance with people who use the cash shop with the one who don't what can make the gameplay frustating (hell sometimes even when you pay a little have people who burn like 500 a month on the game) things like that is what kills the subscription mode. i'm far more willing to pay a flat amount each month to keep every on the same ground over the pay to win mode. and why? because no game worth that much.
about some people complaing about the dude, guys I would send a e-mail to some admin here on the site and send the complains direct to then, the dude I doubt he even read here and the best way to get thing better is send the complains to the right persons, maybe even a online petition saying you guys don't want him here anymore, or asking to him make a better job