Wow, the article writer is an elitist prick. It is people like him that ruin the community for new players. Why should someone have to leave game, start up the browser, search Google, and then come back in game when a simple query in chat in the game would give him the answer 10 times faster? Or does he think that games have advice channels for no particular reason. I would much rather have someone ask questions than assume they know what they are doing and screw things up for everyone else.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
I don't suppose I have much of a reason to interject my oppinions on the matter, as I have yet to even write the first post on the subject, but this is an issue that I, as somone who's played MMOs for years, feel relatively strongly about. Firstly, if the individual you quoted missed your point, you missed something as well. It's silly to argue the "time" it takes an individual to open up a web browser to search for an answer to a question. Tabbed browser, windowed mode, in-game browser, and whatever else are all meaningless, when there's a community of about a thousand players logged into global chat that can answer your question. MMORPGs are multiplayer games and social experiments regardless of how easily players go through their day without making contact with other players, and as such, in almost no situation should a player be "expected" to research ANYTHING out of game that he could simply get by "interacting" with another player.
All MMOs have their serious players who spend hours researching topics online, or who search google for answers to simpler questions, but we shouldn't expect everyone to behave that way. Sure, it's comendable for an individual to take the time to personally research an issue, but again, these are multiplayer interactions and asking for assistance certainly falls under the category of interaction. Most questions that can theoretically be answered via a google search usually don't require much explanation, and I question that if I want to surround myself with a community who would rather take the time out to flame me for asking a simple question in general chat when they could either not answer the question or simply provide me an answer, though I know typing two words in global chat is certainly an exhausting experience for veteran players.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
I am certainly entitled to forming my oppinion about an individual based on the type of questions they asked, and as such, I'm certainly more likely to commend an individual who researches questions his or herself; however, players have no reason to feel as if they are "required" to search for an answer to a question when there are a thousand players playing the same game at the same time who could give them a legitimate answer, as I said above.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
Again, you miss the point. I don't care what is valued outside the game world, because when I'm playing a video game, I seek to escape the hassles of my day to day life. I don't consider myself a newb in any of the games I play, but I don't really research things unless it pleases me to do so. Why? Because I play these games for fun, and given that I have a very limited amount of time I can even play these games, I want to spend said time actually playing the game, not reading over class boards and game websites.
I've asked questions in guild chat, advice chat, global chat, and whatever else, and sometimes I've been flamed just as much as anyone, even if I don't exactly rely on those players to teach me how every aspect of the game I'm playing. My point is that how does an individual know that the random new guy in general chat is wanting the vet to play the game for him? Asking how to jump is a stupid question, but what if he comes from playing Lineage 2 or any other serious of point and click MMOs? He might have researched every aspect of his class. He might know more about how to play the game than you do, but he simply may not know how to jump. If I heard this question in general chat, I may laugh, but at least I would just type /1 "spacebar," instead of taking the time to write a rant on an mmorpg website. Fact is, no one knows the extend to which another player wants to have help just by a few questions that player may ask in general chat.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
The difference between the two of us is that I don't put the same emphasis on learning to read an English assignment as I do on learning to play a video game. Video games are meant to be played for my own personal leisure, because I know that what I may learn how to do in a video game is largely entirely irrelevant to my success or lack of success in the real world, and once I know that I realize that arguments like this are all rather silly.
I've seen alot of so called "Vets" make noob mistakes in game play, sure there is some jesting, but punishing new players in any way becuase they ask a common question really gets to me. I like newbies I'll go out of way to help some and even take a few under my wing to get them to a higher lvl of gaming.
Players need to remember these are GAMES not real life. Now a days death penelties are little to none, so dying because some other player makes a mistake is nothing. Back in the days of EQ and older games were you could lose a lvl or a weeks worth of grinding is a different story, but if you have reached that lvl in those games you don't see to many noobs.
There is a difference between Vets and Carnies.
Vets are expierenced players of the game they are playing.
Carnies are expierenced players of the game they are playing and they tend to let everyone know about it, in every chat window, forum, website, fansite....... typcally ego maniacs, that punish new players for their lack of gaming knowledge. Because they assume godhood in online gaming.
(Carnies is short for "carnivore" type players who prey on other players for personal enjoyment, also know as Hardcore pvpers, Pkers, Gankers,PvP L33Tists)
Shankin, I remember my first mmo vividly, and I still hate pvp because of it. Freaking Lineage 2, the second job I never knew I never wanted. I got called the rude new player slang names in that game too, because I did not own a bot that made my millions for me, and asking what the best ways to make money were had been labeled a newb. Personally, I feel the whole thing is just a label made by veterans to feel they are better, a power trip most likely.
Griefers are no better than rapers in my books, my poor little sorceress did not deserve that
I can't agree entirely with the attitude presented toward less experienced players.
What is sad is when guild leaders or officers put too much effort into judging their members. No one plays the game to be classified or branded.
Drawing lines in the sand between "vet/noob" or "good-raider/bad-raider" is an unhealthy step for guild leaders and officers, and is ultimately destructive to MMO communities.
Guild officers who only associate themselves with players with the "best class build" and "best armor" and then scoff at others is a level of arrogance that squeezes the life out of loyal guild mates who are more than just a pile of stats.
Shame on you Jaime... if you have been bitten by the WoW elitist bug, then I'm disappointed.
"I'm a nerd, and I'm pretty proud of it." - Gilbert, Revenge of the Nerds[1984]
Wow, the article writer is an elitist prick. It is people like him that ruin the community for new players. Why should someone have to leave game, start up the browser, search Google, and then come back in game when a simple query in chat in the game would give him the answer 10 times faster? Or does he think that games have advice channels for no particular reason. I would much rather have someone ask questions than assume they know what they are doing and screw things up for everyone else.
^^^ Absolute truth except the writer is a she. Too bad games like Global Agenda crash every other time you alt tab. Add to that the fact that questions only arise in game and rarely before loading it up and you are literally asking a player to exit out of the game completely find the answer themselves then reload into the game all while hoping that they have a printer or photographic memory if the answer has more than one or two steps.
"Vets expect all players to look things up before asking, and that includes new players." These are not vets they are assholes. It has always confounded me that people act with hostility towards people asking questions. Considering these questions always pop up in general chat are these people really that offended that the constant stream of garbage that runs through most games' common chat areas was interrupted by someone's question? I always try to be the guy who puts up with the endless amounts of trash in common chats to answer questions, even ones that are asked a million times. And I always wait a few extra seconds just on the off chance that some douche displays his elitist attitude to the public. That makes my response show him for what he is.
As far as noobs in a pvp area? I have no mercy on them unless they are gray and its an open pvp world. Information is easy and free and noobs deserve as much as they can get. Pity on the other hand when in battle is for the weak. Destroy or be destroyed is the name of the game and they must expect it or go home.
Wow, the article writer is an elitist prick. It is people like him that ruin the community for new players. Why should someone have to leave game, start up the browser, search Google, and then come back in game when a simple query in chat in the game would give him the answer 10 times faster? Or does he think that games have advice channels for no particular reason. I would much rather have someone ask questions than assume they know what they are doing and screw things up for everyone else.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Well, using your far-from-accurate analogy, English teachers are paid to get you to educate and self-motivate. Parents pay taxes which go to the school, who employ the teachers to get you to 'be better'.
Of course, in a game, you directly pay the 'school' to lump you with a bunch of other 'students'- half of whom usually want to kick your butt, and the other half who are busy doing whatever to not get said butts kicked. No 'teachers' in site- scanty and borderline useless manuals- which usually teach little of 'real value' gamewise.
It's not like veterans go out of their way to make fun of new players, or that we've made it an official sport. In fact, the existence of noobs confuses us.
Yes. No one has ever seen that happen. It's an urban legend.
All it takes to not be a noob is a little common sense.
Ah. Noobs don't have common sense then? And veterans do? So- gaming gives common sense? Everyone game- it'll fix the world!
Many of the concepts new players seem to struggle with in MMOs are concepts that really aren't foreign to gaming at all anymore, and we're left to wonder what era they magically stepped out of.
Maybe the era of 'New to gaming'? New-b? Duh?
I often see noobs begging for clemency, usually with the age old "I didn't know!" excuse. Believe it or not, vets get it. We understand that you come into a new game and you don't know everything.
And you show it by spewing excuses and elitist contempt.
RTFM
It has been said that any game that cannot be played without reading the manual is by nature in need of improvement. Awkward commands, interface- unintuitive actions- run the gamut. Maybe it's in the manual. Maybe it shouldn't need to be.
And by the way- manuals get lost.
And some people are trying the game over at a friends. And some people played 20 other games & think they shouldn't need to read it (A different 'era they magically stepped out of.')
Research it
...This is an extension of RTFM. Of course the answers aren't all in the elusive "manual."
Hm. Fancy that. At 'Noob' level, players are discovering issues that a google search is needed to remedy. Again- no responsibility to the game designer. Random noob should scour the net for every question he'll have playing the game. Even when they don't know what exactly they're looking for- cause they're noobs.
...Now of course, Googling what you're looking for doesn't always work; sometimes the answers are harder to find, or obscure, or a great fan site is buried away in the search engine basement.
Vets will expect you to do this- Even if they could give you the answer in 2 seconds
Don't kamikaze
...The simple truth is, as a new player, you do not know what you are doing, at least not well enough to go charging ahead of your fellow group members.
Course, if you did nothing and just lagged behind- you'd get kicked too. You need to be expert right away. Make it so.
Don't assume
This may seem like another silly, obvious statement, and it really is...
I will let the blatant hypocrisy of this statement stand.
It's that he then made the assumption, based on what knowledge he had, that he was right, and promptly and publicly asserted this false assumption in front of plenty of players who had more knowledge than he did.
You have to be paying attention I guess.
Tell us you're new
I really doubt this is often the problem- but whatev...
So. You you wrote a nice argument, stating 5 excuses- excuse me- reasons why 'you experts' can ignore 'us noobs'- because we have 5 reasons to know better- right?- and my, that's a nice, elitist, 'Us' vs 'Them' tone you've used to further bolster the egos of the misguided. Bravo.
Worst of all- the chances of any real fraction of all the 'noobs' coming here from everywhere & reading your article are slim- closer to none. You might have had more luck writing for experts- they link & share and- wait- you did that! You crafty dog! And the best part is you just further justified contempt for the underdog, and are helping to undermine the spirit of community in MMOs everywhere. Congratulations!
"It's not like veterans go out of their way to make fun of new players, or that we've made it an official sport"
Why would anyone think that? So how many 'leet points' did this article get you, anyway? Yeah- I know- research it...
Think of it like this:
Is it better to give a thirsty man a bottle of water, or educate him on how to dig a well?
Being able to think for oneself & figure out a certain amount on your own is not like rocket science, it's a life skill that crosses all borders, whn it comes to specialised knowledge, that's when you start asking the pertinent questions of the learned, & do so with respect or expect to either be ignored or derided.
Having lazy assholes constatly asking the most basic "it's right there in front of you for god's sake" questions only serves to re-affirm the misogynist has it right about people in general.
How many brain cells does it take to familiarise onself with the controls of a push bike, a car, a jet aircraft, an MMO, how do you go about any of that is all basic common sense, provided you have a grasp of the principles each have. Every videogame ever made has some degree of "familiarisation" to it, & reading the manual, if you've never played a videogame before would be the best place to get an understanding of wtf you are going to be doing.
First thing you do is read the manual up to the point where you enter the game, then once in you figure out the control scheme, then learn about the UI, then about any options you can use to modify those.
Then you go back to the manual & read up on gameplay, progression, development etc, play your char through the first few levels to get some first-hand experience, & soon you're away.
The thing to do is actually read tips & pop-up boxes if you are new & not just close them down because you find them annoying, so often I come across players asking the most ridiculous questions they should have figured out, if only they were paying some attention.
And that's the key to it all really, paying attention, if you hate reading & paying attention don't play MMO's, you're not the right person to be playing them.
Do you know, I'm a compulsive manual reader, I read the websites too and I use google. I have been playing WoW for a couple of years since I bought it to take my mind off of being stuck in Saudi Arabia, and still use it to take my mind off being stuck in China now...
And I'm still learning things everyday in game, stuff I didn't know but wasn't afraid to ask about.
I have met dozens of really nice people in this way, and it's why I like MMO's they involve other people, your "stupid obvious question" is only "stupid and obvious" because you already know the answer, the other person wouldn't be asking if they didn't know.
Elitist jerks are the number one off-putter in MMO's for me, they make a great experience a shoddy one very quickly.
My server seems pretty low on "noob" bashers in WoW and I'm not sure there was anyone else on my WAR server... but cross server PuGing has introduced me to some wonderful people and some utter ****'s too.
If you genuinely expect to play an MMO as god, then please **** off away from the one I'm playing. If you want to talk, let's talk but hold back with the insults and looking down your nose, we all learn differently so get over yourself.
I am just glad the playing field was a lot smaller and a lot less hostile when I started playing EQ 1. These days, the hostility, arrogance and outright conceit of a lot of communities is appauling. WIthout new players, games don't last.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I agree with this article in regards to the message as a whole. If you really want to learn to play the game, there has to be some effort exerted by the player themselves to learn the game. The resources are out there especially if the game is popular. For those calling her elitist, its hard to ignore the fact that there are these types of people and for those that deny it obviously aren't in the guild where they have that guy that asks everyone where to spend every single one of their talent points or don't know how to run the most common of 5 man instances. I don't think she comes off as elitist because if she wanted to, she would of tried a helluvalot harder.
In addition, I think another great point in regards to searching relevant websites/forums/resources over utilizing the "manual" of the game would be due to the fact that MMORPG's are frequently updated as soon as the first month or two of release of some games (ahem ahem Cryptic). The best ways to stay on top of it would be to visit dedicated community websites or the game's website themselves for the most up to date information. In the end, these games aren't all that hard to learn and become half-way decent in.
My rule of thumb is that when a person uses the term "noob" in any fashion other than irony, then that person probably has some serious real-life social hurdles that they can't overcome and come to online worlds to take out their frustrations.
Like the author.
If you see a new player make a mistake and choose to laugh or take advantage instead of help, you're socially maladjusted. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if it's the internets or not. If you feel that there are different rules for how you should treat people if you're sitting in front of a computer screen, then you should stop spending time behind a computer screen.
Of course I realize that my view is by far a minority view amongst the "leet" and hard-core gamers who populate MMOs and this site. As such, I'm slowly accepting that MMOs are not the place for "normal" people, but are a refuge for people like the author and her ilk.
Wow, the article writer is an elitist prick. It is people like him that ruin the community for new players. Why should someone have to leave game, start up the browser, search Google, and then come back in game when a simple query in chat in the game would give him the answer 10 times faster? Or does he think that games have advice channels for no particular reason. I would much rather have someone ask questions than assume they know what they are doing and screw things up for everyone else.
Why should we have to have our chat boxes spamed so hard we can't play because some people refuse to listen and are apparently not bright enough to notice that games are monkey simple and the vast majority of them use the same or at least similer set ups. Now if they say they come from an Amish communtiy and its their first day with electricity they might have an excuse. If they have been playing MMOs for 3 years and they still spam my chat box they should expect either ridicule or if the Devs are mercifull an /addignore. And as an aside, browsers can be accessed from within 99% of games now.
Also as an aside, more games have a channel dedicated to advice than there are games with built in browsers. Don't wanna answer questions? Turn of the advice channel. And politely direct questions in other channels to advice. Of course, any game with a community full of people like you, I'd like have general chat turned off cause you sound like the type that fills chat with Chuck Noris and Yo Mama jokes.
I have never once played a game where the chat box was spammed so hard by questions the game was unplayable, wxcept in a few open betas, and in those cases, often no one knew what was going on. But I have seen channels rendered unusable by dicks like you filling it with "L2Play noob" and other such shit after someone asks a question.
The year must have been 2000? and I was playing My 1st mmp, Asherons Call, nothing like being Lv6 and having a Lv87 player take you off into a High level area and then, leaving you to DIE!! with the final departing words of.....DIE NOOB!!!!!
(Not word for word precise, but pretty darn close)
Wow, the article writer is an elitist prick. It is people like him that ruin the community for new players. Why should someone have to leave game, start up the browser, search Google, and then come back in game when a simple query in chat in the game would give him the answer 10 times faster? Or does he think that games have advice channels for no particular reason. I would much rather have someone ask questions than assume they know what they are doing and screw things up for everyone else.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Ah, I see. WoW player who thinks all games work the same way. Most games do not have plug ins that pretty much play the game for you. Many games crash when you try to alt tab. Many games do not have a tutorial that explains all the buttons for you. Some have very basic tutorials that tell you just enough to be able to basically control your character, and some have none at all.
Besides, nothing in your article hinted that it was directed at the person who asks "a million questions about the class they selected" but seemed to ridicule anyone who had a question, as if he or she should have known what he needed to learn before booting the game and Googled it. Newsflash, you often don't know what you don't know until you run into the situation needing the knowledge. You don't know what question to ask or what info to look for until you hit the situation where it is needed.
The boss analogy was pure fail. Jobs tend to have these things called interviews and resumes. You are expected to have the background that gives you the knowledge the job requires and the interview is there to make sure you know what you claim to know. On top of that, there is training made available at any job where you are going to need specific knowledge before you start your duties. On top of all that, as someone who has been "boss" I much prefer my workers, when confronted with something they don't understand, to come to me and ask instead of either making it up as they go along, or stopping everything to go and try to look something up.
In your teacher analogy, you mention giving the student a dictionary. That would be akin to taking the time to link a reference site when presented with a question. Your attitude as displayed in the article would have the teacher berate the student as a noob and then sarcastically say there is a bookstore somewhere in town with dictionaries.
this article made me laugh my ass off. explaining the true meaning of noob. thinking of all the times when i called someone a noob or thought about calling someone a noob. I laugh at noobs at least once a day but rarely do i call them out, knowing that at one time i had questions as well. I only call them out if they are blatantly ignorant and wont listen to reason. Great read!
I have been gaming for a long time and i try to look at it this way. (1) We all at one time or another have been Noobs. (2) With alot of new mmo's out there is not alot of in depth info out yet so yes we do have prior gaming to back us up but there still is a learning curve to the game. Think of a noob as a 2 or 3 year old as you need to teach them as they go along as they do not always understand the game they are playing as of yet. I think most Guild Leaders understand this and thats what makes good guilds in the long run. Yes i have seen the worst of Noobs (healers running into tank, DPS running around everywhere and pulling in massive amount of arrgo back to the group, Pets running to the wrong group} But in time these players learn and become good players most of the time. Understanding goes along way in MMO's. In my book there are no stupid ? just stupid answers lol.
Wow, the article writer is an elitist prick. It is people like him that ruin the community for new players. Why should someone have to leave game, start up the browser, search Google, and then come back in game when a simple query in chat in the game would give him the answer 10 times faster? Or does he think that games have advice channels for no particular reason. I would much rather have someone ask questions than assume they know what they are doing and screw things up for everyone else.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Ah, I see. WoW player who thinks all games work the same way. Most games do not have plug ins that pretty much play the game for you. Many games crash when you try to alt tab. Many games do not have a tutorial that explains all the buttons for you. Some have very basic tutorials that tell you just enough to be able to basically control your character, and some have none at all.
I've yet to come across any games that crash when I alt tab.
Great article Jaime. I think the boys at camp need to be a bit worried as the fem is bringing home the trophy buck, yet again!
Now, while I did enjoy the article, I was very much hoping you would go into a bit of detail about the words noob, newb, and their difference by definition. I've seen a lot of confusion and/or mistakes when it comes to their proper use and for me the difference between the two is critical. In my eyes it can separate the ignorant or uneducated from the downright lazy, stupid or witless. Here is a good link:
Comments
Where's Sulu?
Does anyone know where Sulu is?
I can't find Sulu.
Why won't anyone tell me where Sulu is?
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
I don't suppose I have much of a reason to interject my oppinions on the matter, as I have yet to even write the first post on the subject, but this is an issue that I, as somone who's played MMOs for years, feel relatively strongly about. Firstly, if the individual you quoted missed your point, you missed something as well. It's silly to argue the "time" it takes an individual to open up a web browser to search for an answer to a question. Tabbed browser, windowed mode, in-game browser, and whatever else are all meaningless, when there's a community of about a thousand players logged into global chat that can answer your question. MMORPGs are multiplayer games and social experiments regardless of how easily players go through their day without making contact with other players, and as such, in almost no situation should a player be "expected" to research ANYTHING out of game that he could simply get by "interacting" with another player.
All MMOs have their serious players who spend hours researching topics online, or who search google for answers to simpler questions, but we shouldn't expect everyone to behave that way. Sure, it's comendable for an individual to take the time to personally research an issue, but again, these are multiplayer interactions and asking for assistance certainly falls under the category of interaction. Most questions that can theoretically be answered via a google search usually don't require much explanation, and I question that if I want to surround myself with a community who would rather take the time out to flame me for asking a simple question in general chat when they could either not answer the question or simply provide me an answer, though I know typing two words in global chat is certainly an exhausting experience for veteran players.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
I am certainly entitled to forming my oppinion about an individual based on the type of questions they asked, and as such, I'm certainly more likely to commend an individual who researches questions his or herself; however, players have no reason to feel as if they are "required" to search for an answer to a question when there are a thousand players playing the same game at the same time who could give them a legitimate answer, as I said above.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
Again, you miss the point. I don't care what is valued outside the game world, because when I'm playing a video game, I seek to escape the hassles of my day to day life. I don't consider myself a newb in any of the games I play, but I don't really research things unless it pleases me to do so. Why? Because I play these games for fun, and given that I have a very limited amount of time I can even play these games, I want to spend said time actually playing the game, not reading over class boards and game websites.
I've asked questions in guild chat, advice chat, global chat, and whatever else, and sometimes I've been flamed just as much as anyone, even if I don't exactly rely on those players to teach me how every aspect of the game I'm playing. My point is that how does an individual know that the random new guy in general chat is wanting the vet to play the game for him? Asking how to jump is a stupid question, but what if he comes from playing Lineage 2 or any other serious of point and click MMOs? He might have researched every aspect of his class. He might know more about how to play the game than you do, but he simply may not know how to jump. If I heard this question in general chat, I may laugh, but at least I would just type /1 "spacebar," instead of taking the time to write a rant on an mmorpg website. Fact is, no one knows the extend to which another player wants to have help just by a few questions that player may ask in general chat.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
The difference between the two of us is that I don't put the same emphasis on learning to read an English assignment as I do on learning to play a video game. Video games are meant to be played for my own personal leisure, because I know that what I may learn how to do in a video game is largely entirely irrelevant to my success or lack of success in the real world, and once I know that I realize that arguments like this are all rather silly.
I'm with shankin, play an mmo for the fun.
I've seen alot of so called "Vets" make noob mistakes in game play, sure there is some jesting, but punishing new players in any way becuase they ask a common question really gets to me. I like newbies I'll go out of way to help some and even take a few under my wing to get them to a higher lvl of gaming.
Players need to remember these are GAMES not real life. Now a days death penelties are little to none, so dying because some other player makes a mistake is nothing. Back in the days of EQ and older games were you could lose a lvl or a weeks worth of grinding is a different story, but if you have reached that lvl in those games you don't see to many noobs.
There is a difference between Vets and Carnies.
Vets are expierenced players of the game they are playing.
Carnies are expierenced players of the game they are playing and they tend to let everyone know about it, in every chat window, forum, website, fansite....... typcally ego maniacs, that punish new players for their lack of gaming knowledge. Because they assume godhood in online gaming.
(Carnies is short for "carnivore" type players who prey on other players for personal enjoyment, also know as Hardcore pvpers, Pkers, Gankers,PvP L33Tists)
Collector of old minis.
Playing WAR:Age of Rekoning
www.oldtimersguild.com
Shankin, I remember my first mmo vividly, and I still hate pvp because of it. Freaking Lineage 2, the second job I never knew I never wanted. I got called the rude new player slang names in that game too, because I did not own a bot that made my millions for me, and asking what the best ways to make money were had been labeled a newb. Personally, I feel the whole thing is just a label made by veterans to feel they are better, a power trip most likely.
Griefers are no better than rapers in my books, my poor little sorceress did not deserve that
I still can't find Sulu.
Hes over there -------->
Collector of old minis.
Playing WAR:Age of Rekoning
www.oldtimersguild.com
.
I can't agree entirely with the attitude presented toward less experienced players.
What is sad is when guild leaders or officers put too much effort into judging their members. No one plays the game to be classified or branded.
Drawing lines in the sand between "vet/noob" or "good-raider/bad-raider" is an unhealthy step for guild leaders and officers, and is ultimately destructive to MMO communities.
Guild officers who only associate themselves with players with the "best class build" and "best armor" and then scoff at others is a level of arrogance that squeezes the life out of loyal guild mates who are more than just a pile of stats.
Shame on you Jaime... if you have been bitten by the WoW elitist bug, then I'm disappointed.
"I'm a nerd, and I'm pretty proud of it." - Gilbert, Revenge of the Nerds[1984]
^^^ Absolute truth except the writer is a she. Too bad games like Global Agenda crash every other time you alt tab. Add to that the fact that questions only arise in game and rarely before loading it up and you are literally asking a player to exit out of the game completely find the answer themselves then reload into the game all while hoping that they have a printer or photographic memory if the answer has more than one or two steps.
"Vets expect all players to look things up before asking, and that includes new players." These are not vets they are assholes. It has always confounded me that people act with hostility towards people asking questions. Considering these questions always pop up in general chat are these people really that offended that the constant stream of garbage that runs through most games' common chat areas was interrupted by someone's question? I always try to be the guy who puts up with the endless amounts of trash in common chats to answer questions, even ones that are asked a million times. And I always wait a few extra seconds just on the off chance that some douche displays his elitist attitude to the public. That makes my response show him for what he is.
As far as noobs in a pvp area? I have no mercy on them unless they are gray and its an open pvp world. Information is easy and free and noobs deserve as much as they can get. Pity on the other hand when in battle is for the weak. Destroy or be destroyed is the name of the game and they must expect it or go home.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Well, using your far-from-accurate analogy, English teachers are paid to get you to educate and self-motivate. Parents pay taxes which go to the school, who employ the teachers to get you to 'be better'.
Of course, in a game, you directly pay the 'school' to lump you with a bunch of other 'students'- half of whom usually want to kick your butt, and the other half who are busy doing whatever to not get said butts kicked. No 'teachers' in site- scanty and borderline useless manuals- which usually teach little of 'real value' gamewise.
It's not like veterans go out of their way to make fun of new players, or that we've made it an official sport. In fact, the existence of noobs confuses us.
Yes. No one has ever seen that happen. It's an urban legend.
All it takes to not be a noob is a little common sense.
Ah. Noobs don't have common sense then? And veterans do? So- gaming gives common sense? Everyone game- it'll fix the world!
Many of the concepts new players seem to struggle with in MMOs are concepts that really aren't foreign to gaming at all anymore, and we're left to wonder what era they magically stepped out of.
Maybe the era of 'New to gaming'? New-b? Duh?
I often see noobs begging for clemency, usually with the age old "I didn't know!" excuse. Believe it or not, vets get it. We understand that you come into a new game and you don't know everything.
And you show it by spewing excuses and elitist contempt.
RTFM
It has been said that any game that cannot be played without reading the manual is by nature in need of improvement. Awkward commands, interface- unintuitive actions- run the gamut. Maybe it's in the manual. Maybe it shouldn't need to be.
And by the way- manuals get lost.
And some people are trying the game over at a friends. And some people played 20 other games & think they shouldn't need to read it (A different 'era they magically stepped out of.')
Research it
...This is an extension of RTFM. Of course the answers aren't all in the elusive "manual."
Hm. Fancy that. At 'Noob' level, players are discovering issues that a google search is needed to remedy. Again- no responsibility to the game designer. Random noob should scour the net for every question he'll have playing the game. Even when they don't know what exactly they're looking for- cause they're noobs.
...Now of course, Googling what you're looking for doesn't always work; sometimes the answers are harder to find, or obscure, or a great fan site is buried away in the search engine basement.
Vets will expect you to do this- Even if they could give you the answer in 2 seconds
Don't kamikaze
...The simple truth is, as a new player, you do not know what you are doing, at least not well enough to go charging ahead of your fellow group members.
Course, if you did nothing and just lagged behind- you'd get kicked too. You need to be expert right away. Make it so.
Don't assume
This may seem like another silly, obvious statement, and it really is...
I will let the blatant hypocrisy of this statement stand.
It's that he then made the assumption, based on what knowledge he had, that he was right, and promptly and publicly asserted this false assumption in front of plenty of players who had more knowledge than he did.
You have to be paying attention I guess.
Tell us you're new
I really doubt this is often the problem- but whatev...
So. You you wrote a nice argument, stating 5 excuses- excuse me- reasons why 'you experts' can ignore 'us noobs'- because we have 5 reasons to know better- right?- and my, that's a nice, elitist, 'Us' vs 'Them' tone you've used to further bolster the egos of the misguided. Bravo.
Worst of all- the chances of any real fraction of all the 'noobs' coming here from everywhere & reading your article are slim- closer to none. You might have had more luck writing for experts- they link & share and- wait- you did that! You crafty dog! And the best part is you just further justified contempt for the underdog, and are helping to undermine the spirit of community in MMOs everywhere. Congratulations!
"It's not like veterans go out of their way to make fun of new players, or that we've made it an official sport"
Why would anyone think that? So how many 'leet points' did this article get you, anyway? Yeah- I know- research it...
Think of it like this:
Is it better to give a thirsty man a bottle of water, or educate him on how to dig a well?
Being able to think for oneself & figure out a certain amount on your own is not like rocket science, it's a life skill that crosses all borders, whn it comes to specialised knowledge, that's when you start asking the pertinent questions of the learned, & do so with respect or expect to either be ignored or derided.
Having lazy assholes constatly asking the most basic "it's right there in front of you for god's sake" questions only serves to re-affirm the misogynist has it right about people in general.
How many brain cells does it take to familiarise onself with the controls of a push bike, a car, a jet aircraft, an MMO, how do you go about any of that is all basic common sense, provided you have a grasp of the principles each have. Every videogame ever made has some degree of "familiarisation" to it, & reading the manual, if you've never played a videogame before would be the best place to get an understanding of wtf you are going to be doing.
First thing you do is read the manual up to the point where you enter the game, then once in you figure out the control scheme, then learn about the UI, then about any options you can use to modify those.
Then you go back to the manual & read up on gameplay, progression, development etc, play your char through the first few levels to get some first-hand experience, & soon you're away.
The thing to do is actually read tips & pop-up boxes if you are new & not just close them down because you find them annoying, so often I come across players asking the most ridiculous questions they should have figured out, if only they were paying some attention.
And that's the key to it all really, paying attention, if you hate reading & paying attention don't play MMO's, you're not the right person to be playing them.
I don't grief new players..ever.
There is a difference in being an elitist digbat and understanding that not to long ago they to were new to game x.
The general rule I follow is: Always offer help when asked. BTW sulu can be found if you look at the game WIKI.
Newbie: ok but where is he
me: ok, one time...Sulu is at x
can you kill him for me and get his weapon/armor?
No..I'll help but I won't play the game for you. (This is getting very very close to an ignore)
New players, newbies will generaly be glad they have a place to look things up. We all miss things every now and then.
Noobs are lazy and want all the goodies but aren't willing to take the time to learn how to get them for themselves
Do you know, I'm a compulsive manual reader, I read the websites too and I use google. I have been playing WoW for a couple of years since I bought it to take my mind off of being stuck in Saudi Arabia, and still use it to take my mind off being stuck in China now...
And I'm still learning things everyday in game, stuff I didn't know but wasn't afraid to ask about.
I have met dozens of really nice people in this way, and it's why I like MMO's they involve other people, your "stupid obvious question" is only "stupid and obvious" because you already know the answer, the other person wouldn't be asking if they didn't know.
Elitist jerks are the number one off-putter in MMO's for me, they make a great experience a shoddy one very quickly.
My server seems pretty low on "noob" bashers in WoW and I'm not sure there was anyone else on my WAR server... but cross server PuGing has introduced me to some wonderful people and some utter ****'s too.
If you genuinely expect to play an MMO as god, then please **** off away from the one I'm playing. If you want to talk, let's talk but hold back with the insults and looking down your nose, we all learn differently so get over yourself.
.
I am just glad the playing field was a lot smaller and a lot less hostile when I started playing EQ 1. These days, the hostility, arrogance and outright conceit of a lot of communities is appauling. WIthout new players, games don't last.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
I agree with this article in regards to the message as a whole. If you really want to learn to play the game, there has to be some effort exerted by the player themselves to learn the game. The resources are out there especially if the game is popular. For those calling her elitist, its hard to ignore the fact that there are these types of people and for those that deny it obviously aren't in the guild where they have that guy that asks everyone where to spend every single one of their talent points or don't know how to run the most common of 5 man instances. I don't think she comes off as elitist because if she wanted to, she would of tried a helluvalot harder.
In addition, I think another great point in regards to searching relevant websites/forums/resources over utilizing the "manual" of the game would be due to the fact that MMORPG's are frequently updated as soon as the first month or two of release of some games (ahem ahem Cryptic). The best ways to stay on top of it would be to visit dedicated community websites or the game's website themselves for the most up to date information. In the end, these games aren't all that hard to learn and become half-way decent in.
My rule of thumb is that when a person uses the term "noob" in any fashion other than irony, then that person probably has some serious real-life social hurdles that they can't overcome and come to online worlds to take out their frustrations.
Like the author.
If you see a new player make a mistake and choose to laugh or take advantage instead of help, you're socially maladjusted. Simple as that. It doesn't matter if it's the internets or not. If you feel that there are different rules for how you should treat people if you're sitting in front of a computer screen, then you should stop spending time behind a computer screen.
Of course I realize that my view is by far a minority view amongst the "leet" and hard-core gamers who populate MMOs and this site. As such, I'm slowly accepting that MMOs are not the place for "normal" people, but are a refuge for people like the author and her ilk.
Why should we have to have our chat boxes spamed so hard we can't play because some people refuse to listen and are apparently not bright enough to notice that games are monkey simple and the vast majority of them use the same or at least similer set ups. Now if they say they come from an Amish communtiy and its their first day with electricity they might have an excuse. If they have been playing MMOs for 3 years and they still spam my chat box they should expect either ridicule or if the Devs are mercifull an /addignore. And as an aside, browsers can be accessed from within 99% of games now.
Also as an aside, more games have a channel dedicated to advice than there are games with built in browsers. Don't wanna answer questions? Turn of the advice channel. And politely direct questions in other channels to advice. Of course, any game with a community full of people like you, I'd like have general chat turned off cause you sound like the type that fills chat with Chuck Noris and Yo Mama jokes.
I have never once played a game where the chat box was spammed so hard by questions the game was unplayable, wxcept in a few open betas, and in those cases, often no one knew what was going on. But I have seen channels rendered unusable by dicks like you filling it with "L2Play noob" and other such shit after someone asks a question.
The year must have been 2000? and I was playing My 1st mmp, Asherons Call, nothing like being Lv6 and having a Lv87 player take you off into a High level area and then, leaving you to DIE!! with the final departing words of.....DIE NOOB!!!!!
(Not word for word precise, but pretty darn close)
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Ah, I see. WoW player who thinks all games work the same way. Most games do not have plug ins that pretty much play the game for you. Many games crash when you try to alt tab. Many games do not have a tutorial that explains all the buttons for you. Some have very basic tutorials that tell you just enough to be able to basically control your character, and some have none at all.
Besides, nothing in your article hinted that it was directed at the person who asks "a million questions about the class they selected" but seemed to ridicule anyone who had a question, as if he or she should have known what he needed to learn before booting the game and Googled it. Newsflash, you often don't know what you don't know until you run into the situation needing the knowledge. You don't know what question to ask or what info to look for until you hit the situation where it is needed.
The boss analogy was pure fail. Jobs tend to have these things called interviews and resumes. You are expected to have the background that gives you the knowledge the job requires and the interview is there to make sure you know what you claim to know. On top of that, there is training made available at any job where you are going to need specific knowledge before you start your duties. On top of all that, as someone who has been "boss" I much prefer my workers, when confronted with something they don't understand, to come to me and ask instead of either making it up as they go along, or stopping everything to go and try to look something up.
In your teacher analogy, you mention giving the student a dictionary. That would be akin to taking the time to link a reference site when presented with a question. Your attitude as displayed in the article would have the teacher berate the student as a noob and then sarcastically say there is a bookstore somewhere in town with dictionaries.
this article made me laugh my ass off. explaining the true meaning of noob. thinking of all the times when i called someone a noob or thought about calling someone a noob. I laugh at noobs at least once a day but rarely do i call them out, knowing that at one time i had questions as well. I only call them out if they are blatantly ignorant and wont listen to reason. Great read!
If i have to choose between being noob or pro, i will choose noob.
WOW,eq2,Vanguard,WAR,LOTRO,AOC,Rift Aion, SWTOR, TERA.
Currently playing GW2.
I have been gaming for a long time and i try to look at it this way. (1) We all at one time or another have been Noobs. (2) With alot of new mmo's out there is not alot of in depth info out yet so yes we do have prior gaming to back us up but there still is a learning curve to the game. Think of a noob as a 2 or 3 year old as you need to teach them as they go along as they do not always understand the game they are playing as of yet. I think most Guild Leaders understand this and thats what makes good guilds in the long run. Yes i have seen the worst of Noobs (healers running into tank, DPS running around everywhere and pulling in massive amount of arrgo back to the group, Pets running to the wrong group} But in time these players learn and become good players most of the time. Understanding goes along way in MMO's. In my book there are no stupid ? just stupid answers lol.
Spankthetoad
The only people that use the word noob are the ones that think they know everything about the game, but don't.
The games I play I know I don't, I am always learning something new.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Ah, I see. WoW player who thinks all games work the same way. Most games do not have plug ins that pretty much play the game for you. Many games crash when you try to alt tab. Many games do not have a tutorial that explains all the buttons for you. Some have very basic tutorials that tell you just enough to be able to basically control your character, and some have none at all.
I've yet to come across any games that crash when I alt tab.
Great article Jaime. I think the boys at camp need to be a bit worried as the fem is bringing home the trophy buck, yet again!
Now, while I did enjoy the article, I was very much hoping you would go into a bit of detail about the words noob, newb, and their difference by definition. I've seen a lot of confusion and/or mistakes when it comes to their proper use and for me the difference between the two is critical. In my eyes it can separate the ignorant or uneducated from the downright lazy, stupid or witless. Here is a good link:
www.urbandictionary.com/define.php
For those that are unclear as to the difference between the words noob and newb and their primary uses, I suggest you RTFM :P
(Something tells me I may be seeing a lot of Pope John Paul II in the near future.)
Your fail comment, failed.