It varies a lot imo. Newbs do have a hard time, most MMO's are complex games and require a level of dedication and learning period (some more than others) and you should come prepared to learn. Ideally you would be helped by more experienced players but that doesn't happen all the time, also ideally you should try to learn on your own and figure out what the world is.
Sometimes people do this wrong they come into a game with ideas on what should be and anything else is wrong. These are the sort of people that don't learn and come with stupid questions as they refused to listen (they don't need to they already have the game figured out in their head) and something must be wrong with the world for it to not to work like it should.
It has been said that any game that cannot be played without reading the manual is by nature in need of improvement. Awkward commands, interface- unintuitive actions- run the gamut. Maybe it's in the manual. Maybe it shouldn't need to be.
A lot of people (not necessarily the guy above) think the same should apply to tutorials (and other forms of help) and skip them as they are unneeded. For a lot of games this will work though you will ask questions that you should know if you put in the effort. Some games however are different, they do things in a unique way, their increddibly complex or they are aimed at a minority rather than a majority. This often leads to players going into a game with no idea what their getting into, the best example of this I can think of is EVE.
The game has been called spreadsheets online more than a few times, and it's learning curve is different from most as well as a lot of design dicisions that are almost unique. If you go into this game (or any game) with the wrong expectations your gonna have a hard time and you have noone to blame but yourself. If this does happen however you can still recover by admitting your mistake and trying to learn from it and seeking help (likely by going back to the tutorial).
However the newb giving a 2nd try and getting past the learning stage isn't what you tend to see, not because it doens't happen but because it goes unnoticed. Noobs behaving badly usually goes quite public a lot of the time resulting in a forum post something along the lines of "This game sucks. You should do it this way. I'm leaving and never coming back". These sorts of responses are really unnecessary, if the game isn't for you just move on no need to try and shove it in our faces. There's a saying in EVE something like noob tears fueling griefers ships and it couldn't be more true, people who obviously hate us are hurt when we grief them so our response is to cause them more suffering in a endless cycle.
While it's only a small part of the problem the actions of a few of the more vocal newbs tend to reflect very badly on them as a whole.
Wow, the article writer is an elitist prick. It is people like him that ruin the community for new players. Why should someone have to leave game, start up the browser, search Google, and then come back in game when a simple query in chat in the game would give him the answer 10 times faster? Or does he think that games have advice channels for no particular reason. I would much rather have someone ask questions than assume they know what they are doing and screw things up for everyone else.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Ah, I see. WoW player who thinks all games work the same way. Most games do not have plug ins that pretty much play the game for you. Many games crash when you try to alt tab. Many games do not have a tutorial that explains all the buttons for you. Some have very basic tutorials that tell you just enough to be able to basically control your character, and some have none at all.
I've yet to come across any games that crash when I alt tab.
The ones that do often don't for everyone. Mortal Online, for instance, will Alt-Tab fine on my wife's PC but freezes on mine when I try.
Great article Jaime. I think the boys at camp need to be a bit worried as the fem is bringing home the trophy buck, yet again!
Now, while I did enjoy the article, I was very much hoping you would go into a bit of detail about the words noob, newb, and their difference by definition. I've seen a lot of confusion and/or mistakes when it comes to their proper use and for me the difference between the two is critical. In my eyes it can separate the ignorant or uneducated from the downright lazy, stupid or witless. Here is a good link:
For those that are unclear as to the difference between the words noob and newb and their primary uses, I suggest you RTFM :P
(Something tells me I may be seeing a lot of Pope John Paul II in the near future.)
That's pretty close, A "Newb" is someone who is new to the game. A "Noob"-(As in, Boob) is someone who has been playing the game for awhile but chooses to act like a newb. Newbie? I don't know, i think that's just another word for "Newb" and not "Noob".
"New Player: What a crappy game. I can't cast spells because I don't have the reagents and the game doesn't sell them.
Vet #1: Actually, they do . . .
New Player: No they don't.
Vet #2: Yes, they do. Did you visit the apothecary?
New Player: Well that's good to know."
Just thought I would comment on the way you had taken this player:
I think the way he acted was in fact a way to ask you about that but to give out a rant at the same time; not nescessarily a rant about the game but maybe he was just in a bad mood. I have a friend (in real life) who frequently "asks" about things in the same way as the player in your column, and the reason he asks them that way is the fact he just gets pissed easily.
TL;DR, I think the player in this case did understand there had to be a way to buy those reagents he needed, he just happened to be on a bad mood or so and decided to find out where you could get these reagents by giving out a rant instead of just asking gently.
To me the article was just this side of a rant. Didn't care for it. It had some valid points but really would have been better balanced if there were more acknowledgment of the 'newbs' perspective.
While I ceased to be a 'MMO newbie' sometime back in 1995, I am a newbie every time I step into a game. I generally try to use the help options, run at least the basic tutorials and check the forums/search engines (if a game seems worth a moderate amount of effort) and yet questions crop up. I was in the Allods CBT (as many were recently) and for some reason I missed 'How to auto-attack with a wand'. (As I now understand it you can't, they just modify stats when spell casting). When I asked the question though, politely and succinctly I was immediately shouted at. NEWB, ***** NEWBIE etc. Sheer joy.
I am not saying that I haven't held the hand of many a new player and sometimes had to just cut my losses and move on (I try to tell people before I leave a grp or conversation to be polite) but there is a far cry from a persistent 'What, Why, How' from the same person than there is from a single reasonable question from someone. I know all about the newbie areas of a new game where the same questions get asked over and over, often by different players. If it bothers people that much that they get rude, perhaps they (the elite vet players) should switch channels or ignore specific chat channels.
*shrug* A bit more politeness all around would help many things in the world. (IMO)
And for the record, I can't remember RTFM being a regularly used acronym ever....
But i have to add, that usually games with steep learning curves are the ones you can find help in easiest, when you ask other players.
Usually players who have the patience to learn a game also have patience to teach others.
Fallen Earth or EVE are good examples, and do have a rather helpful community as long as you behave well.
^.^
Originally posted by nethaniah
Seriously Farmville? Yeah I think it's great. In a World where half our population is dying of hunger the more fortunate half is spending their time harvesting food that doesn't exist.
WE had a perfect example of this noon/noobie thing in lotro
This guy got to end game content and had no idea of what his class does. Something is bad wrong when you burn through all the content and you have no clue of what your doing other than mashing buttons, and then post going whats dps and agro.
It is one thing to ask noob questions, its another thing to go gee wiz i have no clue what I am doing and I don't get it at the end game. This is how a lot of mmo games have failed, and just turned folks into button pushing robots who don't take the time to learn their class.
But i have to add, that usually games with steep learning curves are the ones you can find help in easiest, when you ask other players.
Usually players who have the patience to learn a game also have patience to teach others.
Fallen Earth or EVE are good examples, and do have a rather helpful community as long as you behave well.
^.^
True. While some of us might get internally frustrated, MOST OF THE TIME you won't hear it or see it. Both of those communities are very helpful. The qualifier is "as long as you behave well." Generally screaming in all caps in help chat, "THIS GAME SUX," and then spouting off some assumption about something that "doesn't work" before you've asked if you're doing it right....isn't "behaving well." But that being said...most of the time your frustration will get met with some patient and kind response in help chat, or even a nurturing /tell from a caring fellow player.
Generally I agree with the article, there is a need to reinforce that tutorials are made by the developers for a reason, and the players that do not take the time to work their way through the 15 minutes of pain need to be willing to show some decorum in-game and not expect every other player to drop what ever they are doing to answer a basic question that could have been enlightened through a few minutes of tutorial work. Also with many of the games being hyped as they are, there is often plenty of information available for assimilation if you take a few minutes to look for it on the net.
Plus many of the tutorials also provide those that complete them with a few added bonuses, such as in EVE where you get a few ships and some skills for free.
I have recently been bitten hard by LOTRO and find it a little frustrating when the chat window gets clogged with where do I find X when if they read the task details it usually points out where to start looking to complete the quest. That said I have asked for assistance in the past and have given my time freely to assist others, it what makes the community work.
Sigh... my computer just deleted my post midthrough thanks to a manditory refresh. Please stand by as I try to contemplate what I was saying, word for word.
Something about how we were all noobs once, and how after playing WoW, how I was still a noob in Perfect World because of how different it is. Different isn't bad though, it just stops you from AoE/CC grinding as a fire mage. There's also S4, which, due to my playstyle, made me all but useless as a player after a month long break which destroyed my ability to aim. Does that make me a noob? No.
Okay, where was I?
I guess I'll share my noob story. I remember when I first got WoW after graduating Rappelz after graduating Flyff after graduating Runescape. I made a mage, and because of a friend, did the opposite of what my instincts told me and went for fire, a raid spec. Between levels 1-20 I could get by just fine by fireball spam and occasionally using other skills. Simply put, I was afraid to do anything different-- cooldowns were a new and scary thing to me. I still carry that mentality to an extent, but not to such one where it involves me dying, and actually, it helps preventing that. As soon as level 21 came, the hell started... well it had started before that. I remember a friend of a friend almost ripping her hair out because while running me through an instance, I got the urge to help her, successfully dying over 20 times that night perhaps. More on that later. After quitting WoW, getting back to it, creating a druid, levelling said druid to 70, healing some heroics, failing Kara because of guildwide gear problems, I went back to that little fire mage. It was after the person who got me into WoW, and told me to level with a raidspec, told me to delete my mage that, out of defiance, I said no and looked up a guide to magery. That's where the fun started, from there on I learned how to take a single mob without getting hit, what the scary cooldowns were for, and etc.
On a side note, the raid spec was perhaps the best class to level with if you knew what you were doing. Mana economy sucked and it was the least forgiving but you could solo group quests as long as the elite wasn't immune to CC effects.
Time passed, and eventually I got said character to 70, along the way successfully redeeming my past noobdom that was aforementioned by at 60, taking that instance where I died and had my loot ninja'd for dying by the horns and conquering it. At 70 I didn't dps much as a mage, LK was about to release in like... 2 days. After that I levelled to 80 with little issue and hell, even won a few fights with an almost no stamina, levelling build. 80 came along and the class changed entirely, but I rolled with it and did decent dps in instances. It wasn't until the class changed a second time and fire spec was no longer a dps spec with crit gear that I literally just said "Fuck this" and quit.
So that's my noob story that came full circle. In the end I ended up a noob as well for now having the wrong gear build, while, before I quit, was surprised at how much damage a paladin could do without trying. I guess it's more of a 'WoW killed mages' story than anything.
Still, expanding my horizons to new games, I can easily say how easy it is to be a noob. Being a former WoW player didn't help one bit while playing Alaplaya's new Avalon Heroes. Not only was the notion of not being in complete control of your character alien, but the stats were weird too. My mentality was: +3 strength, who would use this? +7% damage? +20% stats? Well, it turned out that that made the golden difference, not only because of how the stats worked, but because there was no battlefeild skill involved-- you weren't sparring with an opponent in hopes of beating a rocket launcher with a pistol, you were sitting back commanding your hero to do so. Evidently, your hero's no legend so for using that mentality, you would only be labeled a noob, even by the one you love.
Just remember, noobs, we all start somewhere, and it can take years to exit noobdom. If you're a noob and ask for help, the people that tell you to fuck off in nicer words, contrary to this article, are elitist trolls--assholes. Admittedly I do laugh alittle on the inside when I see a 60 warrior in intellect gear and naturally go "fail" when he tries to gank my friend of the same level with 3 70s standing by, but we all have to start somewhere and we all have different learning speeds. Well, admittedly I didn't know he was in int gear till later thanks to an ally friend I had on msn, but still...
Don't be afraid to ask questions, because especially in some of the newer games, reading the manual's a fractal mess even for experienced players. Don't take offense to advice either, however. I guess the biggest pointers I can give that are just ahead of basic are: Don't ignore the crafting/enchanting system the game tries to, usually poorly, introduce early on; it will bite your ass later. If there's an ingame help function, check it before asking, if not, ask away and at least the better minded players will almost always help you. Read spell descriptions carefully too and remember, the best class to start on is usually the warrior. That's all I can think of for now, and now I'm going to post before I hit control+v and have the page lock up on me forcing me to refresh.
People that put themselves above others put me in a bad mood. http://www.surrealtwilight.com/index.php ^Has nothing to do with that retarded Vampire Novel Series, I swear!^
Yeah, I'm pretty slow too... 0 to 60 in about a year lol. If you ever see me in a game and you got questions, I'll be more than happy to give you some direction if I got the time.
This article and so many replies sadly demonstrates the state of the communities on the internet. For some reason, compassion and respect are looked at as weaknesses. Open your mind and your heart and you will gain more than the shallow satisfaction one gets from pwning someone whos skill and knowledge are much below your own. Teach a noob, make a friend, then maybe you can have real fun.
Wow, the article writer is an elitist prick. It is people like him that ruin the community for new players. Why should someone have to leave game, start up the browser, search Google, and then come back in game when a simple query in chat in the game would give him the answer 10 times faster? Or does he think that games have advice channels for no particular reason. I would much rather have someone ask questions than assume they know what they are doing and screw things up for everyone else.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Only one missing any point is yourself.
It's a damn game. It's for fun. It's not a job, other players are not your boss. It's not English class, other players are not your English professor and they have every ability to ignore questions if they feel it too beneath them to respond. Raknar was correct, you are a prick.
Im one of those that step into games without any knowledge.
But i love it that way i wanne learn all when i play, not first find out before go ingame.
So far and that is sinds 99 ive np at all, but i also never bother others with silly questions eather.
And when ive learn most basic or even more about game im also that guy that always help new/noob players, im that guy that they talk about in general and say ask him he always help you out he is very helpfull and nice.
And that for someone who play mostly hardcore free for all games and have ingame no mercy, but help out who wants it friend or foe in chat i dont make exceptions i help all who want it.
But its sometimes beyond believe how some buy a game dont check if there pc/laptop can handle game or bought it and find out its harsh pk game and then start crying i dont like those and wont help them ill be silence then:P
Newbees/noobs you will always have you just have to learn live with it.
Ive seen plenty so called vets still doing stupid things but claiming being awesome hehe.
Some friendlyness and patience and helpfullness can't hurt where not all with super high intelligents and nobody have made his own brain so give them some slack will yah:)
Some helpfull hand can't hurt right?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
This article and so many replies sadly demonstrates the state of the communities on the internet. For some reason, compassion and respect are looked at as weaknesses. Open your mind and your heart and you will gain more than the shallow satisfaction one gets from pwning someone whos skill and knowledge are much below your own. Teach a noob, make a friend, then maybe you can have real fun.
One love.
Im keep doing it but make friends becouse you help noobs is rare, there polite enough to say thank you but thats mostly it, im talking with my experience in Darkfall now.
Asheron's call 2 so far was exception that community was awesome beyond believe.
There are even those who try ask for even more after you help them in kind of demanding way lol, without any shame or moral lol.
But i never want anything for my help so mostly np there.
It sometimes payes, that people who have helped suddenly give you something or wanne help you thats nice tho.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Good article. I'd like to add some more advice for nubs...
1. Do the tutorial and read everything in it at least once. I'm usually a pretty helpful person but when I start seeing questions from people that I know for a fact are underlined in bid bold letters with a bright red circle around them on the 2nd step of the tutorial I pretty much go into ignore mode on any future questions from those people no matter how valid those questions are.
2. Be polite. If people wanna be rude to you for asking a question that's their problem but you're much more likely to find the helpful people if you are polite to start. I can't tell you how many people I've seen being rude idiots only to ask for help 3 seconds later and then get all pissed off when no one wants to help them.
3. Labeled global channels (Trade, WTS/WTB, LFG) are not for random questions and chatter. You might get your questions answered if you ask them in these channels but you're probably going to get less "dumbass/noob" points if you use your local/region/class channels first and then if you don't get an answer use a global as a last resort. I know when I see people asking in the local channel and then in global I'm a lot less annoyed by their off topic chat spam in the global channels.
4. Use the search feature to look for people who you can send a tell/whisper to in order to ask them questions rather than using the global channels. If I have done my research and I still have questions about say warriors I will do a search for the higher level ones and then send one a tell along the lines of "Hey have you got a couple minutes to answer some questions about warriors?" I will usually always help someone with questions if they send me a polite tell and I've found that most other people will as well. This is also a good way to meet new people. I've gotten lots of friends from these kinds of encounters.
Call me an idealist, call me a rare person, or call me a liar, I don't care, but I abhor the term noob, much less ever laughed at a new person.
I played DAoC for 3 years before really understanding what that term meant, and I really think it's a term that was mainly used in the generation of players that came into the genre after me.
I agree with the articles points though. While I may not use the term noob, I do see a lack of effort from players in a game, and think of them as lazy or idiots. In the past two releases I've played (AION & STO), one thing that's really bugged me are the people who don't explore the basic use of their AI, their menus, their surroundings, nor do they read the quest text. They then proceed to flood the chat channel with questions I find idiotic and lazy, since they'd of found the answers to those questions if they would just make the above effort.
So because of the fact that the majority of people who even use the chat channel are like that, I rarely even have the chat channel open anymore. So I've gone from being an avid grouper and group starter, to a solo oriented player who groups mainly with the guild and PUG's only for things that needs grouping.
This article and so many replies sadly demonstrates the state of the communities on the internet. For some reason, compassion and respect are looked at as weaknesses. Open your mind and your heart and you will gain more than the shallow satisfaction one gets from pwning someone whos skill and knowledge are much below your own. Teach a noob, make a friend, then maybe you can have real fun.
One love.
One important point I believe you may have missed is, that while there are those examples you speak of in your post, there are others out there. There are those that will be taught, yet don't care to learn. Some that will have no interest in becoming your friend. And finally there are those that will suck all the enjoyment out of your helping them by leaching every ounce of courtesy you're willing to give, with absolutely no thought of appreciation or an inkling of retention for that of which you are teaching them and/or willingness to pay it forward. Believe it or not there are even a few out there that do not, for a mere second, look at what you are doing as a gift of generosity, but in fact, (shudder) believe you 'owe' it to them.
Having said all that, I have always been more than willing to help and will often go out of my way, as I do believe in karma. However, at the same token, I also believe in a healthy ignore list.
The difference between the two of us is that I don't put the same emphasis on learning to read an English assignment as I do on learning to play a video game. Video games are meant to be played for my own personal leisure, because I know that what I may learn how to do in a video game is largely entirely irrelevant to my success or lack of success in the real world, and once I know that I realize that arguments like this are all rather silly.
Let me put it this way. If you had to start a colony on a new world, and you had to pick 20 people from a pool of 40, where 20 of those 40 made every effort to learn, weren't lazy, and had common sense, while the other 20 relied on others to do the learning for them, were lazy and had no common sense. Which 20 people would you choose? Which colony do you think will thrive the most?
Now in a game, you are still a part of a community, whether that community is playing for fun or not. This means that people will still loosely formulate a society akin to the one you live in in real life. So people will seperate into groups, and the same attributes will be frowned upon in the game as are out of the game. Just like rudeness is frowned upon outside the game, rudeness is frowned upon inside the game. Just like laziness is frowned upon in real life, laziness in frowned upon in game life. Just like people who are resourceful, read the manual, the tutorial, their quests, and explore their UI and surroundings in a game are respected in a game, those in real life who are resourceful, read their text books and manuals, listen to those wiser and more knowledgable than them, and aren't afraid to explore what's avialable to them are respected.
Just because you're playing a game, doesn't give you the excuse to be a lazy stupid bum; a leech on the community. I am more than happy to help people, as I was helped when I was a new player in DAoC. However, if you ask questions that were answered already in the manual, tutorial, or could be found by exploring the UI, Menu's, and your surroundings, then I won't answer those questions and will likely think less of you as a person.
You can call me an elitist prick or arrogant if you want, I really don't care, because anyone who values mediocrity, laziness, and blatant ignorance doesn't have a opinion even worthy of listening to.
I do not have any sympathy or tolerance for the willfully ignorant when there are so many books to read, schools to go to, and ways to fund your education. Everyone is ignorant to something, it's those who know their ignorant and take the steps to educate themselves without being overly dependant on others, who gain my respect.
I have to say I agree with shankin. People play games to relax. Expecting people who haven't played the game before or holding them to some arbitrary standard you feel is good enough is arrogant and, like shankin said, the reason that games with steeper learning curves don't have bigger player base.
Admittedly, Pre-CU SWG was really guilty of this. I remember once picking the game up about a few months in, and, not knowing anybody, flagging rebel because I thought having a rank by my name was "cool" (bear in mind that this was within the first couple days of playing). well, no sooner had I got to the hunting ground for the mobs I was grinding brawler skill on, than some imperial wise-ass came along and incapped me, kept me incapped (and thus,unable to do much other than complain) and proceeded to simulate rape on my body. Naturally I complained about this, and was told "hur hur, lrn2play n00b" with little explanation of what I did wrong. My point is, the elitism of the hardcores can kill a game quicker than any change the devteam makes. Again, referencing SWG< I remember resubbing when NGE hit to make a jedi as I didn't want to be arsed into mastering -every- profession or jumping through whatever insane hoops (I do have a life, after all). ANd, within 5 minutes of getting to tattooine, and minding my own business, people were sending me tells telling me that as a "jedi n00b" that I was responsbile for everything wrong with the game and that I needed to drink a gallon of bleach. Or then there's the Launch Day WoW raiders who think things should go back to a year of runnng the same raid 3 times a day for a POSSIBLE chance of your chest piece dropping, or the CS players who call anybody who DARES use the wrong weapon a scrub, or worse, an "AWP Whore"
Seriously, if the hard cores spent more time explaining things to newbie players or, god forbid, giving them instructions of where to look, Maybe we wouldn't have to have this age old N00b vs. Newb debate.
I agree. I know those who have been playing for a long time and know and understand the game just don't want to take the time to help noobs. The truth is we were all noobs once and some people can't figure things out as quick as others.
I remember when I began gaming it was in Diablo. Ah yea the click to move and what seemed so easy for those who had played games for some time was not all that easy for someone like me. Then on to a much different platform, EQ which was a big change. Combat, movement, the world and oh my it was open! (opposed to choosing who could join or not) Luckily I had a friend who sat and walked me through the steps on a class/race she played. Later I changed it but not till I had better understanding of what the hell was going on. lol But as I saw people asking for help in game I would sit and take time to explain things to them and help them out. People won't play a game if they are not able to understand it. That means subs lost and maybe the fall of the game you are enjoying. hmm
By the time I moved on to WoW the game mechanics were easier for me. But even so the world and such was different than EQ. Classes, races and roles were different as well. Oh and I could solo! I have helped many along the way. Because I remember being the noob and what it was like. I want the game to continue and to me helping noobs will help this.
I have played some of f2p that even with my years of gaming I ask for help on something and sadly more times than not I get no reply. Can you say uninstall. I am not going to play a game if I can't enjoy it. Gaming is my fun and entertainment. I think out of all the f2p I have tried Atlantis is the only one I have not had that kind of issue. Mainly because it actually benefits you to help others.
To the author of this article, how would you like it if, on the day of your eventual heart attack, the EMTs just laughed at you and said, "L2Exercise, n00b!"? I don't know why you demigods of gaming would be so annoyed by the questions of new players, considering the majority of these questions are mainly asked in the starter levels. There's no prerequisite for you to answer, and you won't have to deal with these "lowly" players once you reach mid-game. I'd rather have my chat box filled with the questions of new players, rather than the usual spam of gold farmers.
Yes, I've certainly laughed at the foibles of new players, but not in gamechat where they can feel that they are the butt of joke.
While I've played in many games over the years I'm still a noob when I enter a new game, or even when I enter an utterly new zone in game that I've played for years. When I'm away from the game for a while I still make gross mistakes on my return that provoke comment, most recently in gamechat "A$$... you'll wish you hadn't bought that account." And in private contact for the same mess, "Here's the link to ... . It will help you a lot." I try to play like the player who contacted me in private. I hope that I succeed.
It would be nice if everyone did all of the research before starting the game, but that's not ever going to happen. Doesn't happen elsewhere in real life; is fantasy to think it will happen with MMORPG's. Performing all of the research wouldn't solve all of the issues that veteran players have with new ones: a child of ten commonly has a different comprehension from that of a teenager or an "older" player. Players who have played any kind of computer-required game have a different understanding of the documentation from players that have only played online versions of games like backgammon or poker.
Originally posted by Amathe Newbie = new player. They can't fairly be expected to know much about how to play. Not usually derogatory. Noob or Newb = someone who has been in game for long enough to know better, but still acts or plays like a newbie.
This.
There is no shame in being new to something. In a good community, you can fully expect to receive useful advice if you're simply new and ask some good questions.
However, being new is no excuse for being lazy. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who are wasting my time because they are too lazy to do their homework. Asking basic things that are covered in the tutorial or that you can find by one quick search on the net counts as wasting my time. Especially since I could be answering good questions that are not covered in a tutorial..
Newbie = new player. They can't fairly be expected to know much about how to play. Not usually derogatory.
Noob or Newb = someone who has been in game for long enough to know better, but still acts or plays like a newbie.
This.
There is no shame in being new to something. In a good community, you can fully expect to receive useful advice if you're simply new and ask some good questions.
However, being new is no excuse for being lazy. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who are wasting my time because they are too lazy to do their homework. Asking basic things that are covered in the tutorial or that you can find by one quick search on the net counts as wasting my time. Especially since I could be answering good questions that are not covered in a tutorial..
How are they wasting YOUR time? Are you under contract to answer them? Are you pathologically driven to respond to their questions whether you want to answer them or not? No? Then they are not wasting YOUR time.
I must be one of those rare personalities.. because I really don't enjoy getting my jollies off by insulting people or forum-smacking people. I am a community builder.. not some eliteist who wantst to demonstrate his exceptional skills.
Killing new players.. or forum bashing.. or insulting... what a gigantic waste of energy. Its not a 'teaching tools' most times.. its just a way from one human being to vent their frustrations (whatever the source) on an easy target.
Every new player is possible a future team mate.
Every new player is putting $$$ into a game that may be used to make it better.
Every new player is not going to know it all or even know where to look.
It takes some bravery to ASK a question when you are stuck. Yes.. sometimes new players over-do it and get a little to dependant on asking everyone the quick answer.
But I don't instantly make that assumption. Forums seem ripe with people simply looking to find a reason to express anger. Cyber-bullies exist.. and they haunt every public forum I've ever had the luxury of visiting.
For every idiot new player there is probably a dozen or more good candidates. But they are all painted with the same brush on the forums.
Asking newbie questions to players In-game does not seem to result in as much bashing as as on the forums. Its like players are less impolite in-person (virtually) than on via forum replies.. but thats not always the case.
Look.. newbies are not better or worse than Veterans. They're plenty of 'verterans' that do way more harm than good as well. They don't instantly get a 'get-out-of-jail' free card because of their post count or guild size or # of years playing. If the are jerks and trolls.. I'd take a dozen newbies asking me the same question three times a day to get rid of those players.
If you know the answer.. tell it without the bloody drama and 'teach you a lesson' attitude.
If you don't know the answer, DON'T reply... or FIND IT OUT... or POLITELY make a suggestion on where to find it.
Its just a question, and if you don't have the time to reply to it then don't and SKIP the tempation just to hit reply and bash the player.
I wonder how many forum threads would be useful and short if they didn't get burried with all the negative replies that invariably have to be posted for simple questions.
No excuses... you decide what you read, what you reply to (or not)... I'd say its not the newbies fault they asked a simple question.. at least they are trying to learn.
Ya.. if the are ignorant and making assumptions.. point to the facts... and leave the thread already.
No 'quote war' argument is going to change anyone's personality flaws. Save your efforts for something constructive or just stay away if you lack the ability to do so.
Forums & player help area's are to help each other, first and foremost. Its not that hard to be nice.
Comments
It varies a lot imo. Newbs do have a hard time, most MMO's are complex games and require a level of dedication and learning period (some more than others) and you should come prepared to learn. Ideally you would be helped by more experienced players but that doesn't happen all the time, also ideally you should try to learn on your own and figure out what the world is.
Sometimes people do this wrong they come into a game with ideas on what should be and anything else is wrong. These are the sort of people that don't learn and come with stupid questions as they refused to listen (they don't need to they already have the game figured out in their head) and something must be wrong with the world for it to not to work like it should.
It has been said that any game that cannot be played without reading the manual is by nature in need of improvement. Awkward commands, interface- unintuitive actions- run the gamut. Maybe it's in the manual. Maybe it shouldn't need to be.
A lot of people (not necessarily the guy above) think the same should apply to tutorials (and other forms of help) and skip them as they are unneeded. For a lot of games this will work though you will ask questions that you should know if you put in the effort. Some games however are different, they do things in a unique way, their increddibly complex or they are aimed at a minority rather than a majority. This often leads to players going into a game with no idea what their getting into, the best example of this I can think of is EVE.
The game has been called spreadsheets online more than a few times, and it's learning curve is different from most as well as a lot of design dicisions that are almost unique. If you go into this game (or any game) with the wrong expectations your gonna have a hard time and you have noone to blame but yourself. If this does happen however you can still recover by admitting your mistake and trying to learn from it and seeking help (likely by going back to the tutorial).
However the newb giving a 2nd try and getting past the learning stage isn't what you tend to see, not because it doens't happen but because it goes unnoticed. Noobs behaving badly usually goes quite public a lot of the time resulting in a forum post something along the lines of "This game sucks. You should do it this way. I'm leaving and never coming back". These sorts of responses are really unnecessary, if the game isn't for you just move on no need to try and shove it in our faces. There's a saying in EVE something like noob tears fueling griefers ships and it couldn't be more true, people who obviously hate us are hurt when we grief them so our response is to cause them more suffering in a endless cycle.
While it's only a small part of the problem the actions of a few of the more vocal newbs tend to reflect very badly on them as a whole.
Into the breach meatbags
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Ah, I see. WoW player who thinks all games work the same way. Most games do not have plug ins that pretty much play the game for you. Many games crash when you try to alt tab. Many games do not have a tutorial that explains all the buttons for you. Some have very basic tutorials that tell you just enough to be able to basically control your character, and some have none at all.
I've yet to come across any games that crash when I alt tab.
The ones that do often don't for everyone. Mortal Online, for instance, will Alt-Tab fine on my wife's PC but freezes on mine when I try.
That's pretty close, A "Newb" is someone who is new to the game. A "Noob"-(As in, Boob) is someone who has been playing the game for awhile but chooses to act like a newb. Newbie? I don't know, i think that's just another word for "Newb" and not "Noob".
Godspeed my fellow gamer
"New Player: What a crappy game. I can't cast spells because I don't have the reagents and the game doesn't sell them.
Vet #1: Actually, they do . . .
New Player: No they don't.
Vet #2: Yes, they do. Did you visit the apothecary?
New Player: Well that's good to know."
Just thought I would comment on the way you had taken this player:
I think the way he acted was in fact a way to ask you about that but to give out a rant at the same time; not nescessarily a rant about the game but maybe he was just in a bad mood. I have a friend (in real life) who frequently "asks" about things in the same way as the player in your column, and the reason he asks them that way is the fact he just gets pissed easily.
TL;DR, I think the player in this case did understand there had to be a way to buy those reagents he needed, he just happened to be on a bad mood or so and decided to find out where you could get these reagents by giving out a rant instead of just asking gently.
To me the article was just this side of a rant. Didn't care for it. It had some valid points but really would have been better balanced if there were more acknowledgment of the 'newbs' perspective.
While I ceased to be a 'MMO newbie' sometime back in 1995, I am a newbie every time I step into a game. I generally try to use the help options, run at least the basic tutorials and check the forums/search engines (if a game seems worth a moderate amount of effort) and yet questions crop up. I was in the Allods CBT (as many were recently) and for some reason I missed 'How to auto-attack with a wand'. (As I now understand it you can't, they just modify stats when spell casting). When I asked the question though, politely and succinctly I was immediately shouted at. NEWB, ***** NEWBIE etc. Sheer joy.
I am not saying that I haven't held the hand of many a new player and sometimes had to just cut my losses and move on (I try to tell people before I leave a grp or conversation to be polite) but there is a far cry from a persistent 'What, Why, How' from the same person than there is from a single reasonable question from someone. I know all about the newbie areas of a new game where the same questions get asked over and over, often by different players. If it bothers people that much that they get rude, perhaps they (the elite vet players) should switch channels or ignore specific chat channels.
*shrug* A bit more politeness all around would help many things in the world. (IMO)
And for the record, I can't remember RTFM being a regularly used acronym ever....
I can't seem to remember seeing RTFM either.
But i have to add, that usually games with steep learning curves are the ones you can find help in easiest, when you ask other players.
Usually players who have the patience to learn a game also have patience to teach others.
Fallen Earth or EVE are good examples, and do have a rather helpful community as long as you behave well.
^.^
WE had a perfect example of this noon/noobie thing in lotro
This guy got to end game content and had no idea of what his class does. Something is bad wrong when you burn through all the content and you have no clue of what your doing other than mashing buttons, and then post going whats dps and agro.
It is one thing to ask noob questions, its another thing to go gee wiz i have no clue what I am doing and I don't get it at the end game. This is how a lot of mmo games have failed, and just turned folks into button pushing robots who don't take the time to learn their class.
http://forums.lotro.com/showthread.php?t=317809
True. While some of us might get internally frustrated, MOST OF THE TIME you won't hear it or see it. Both of those communities are very helpful. The qualifier is "as long as you behave well." Generally screaming in all caps in help chat, "THIS GAME SUX," and then spouting off some assumption about something that "doesn't work" before you've asked if you're doing it right....isn't "behaving well." But that being said...most of the time your frustration will get met with some patient and kind response in help chat, or even a nurturing /tell from a caring fellow player.
All hope is not lost. lol
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Generally I agree with the article, there is a need to reinforce that tutorials are made by the developers for a reason, and the players that do not take the time to work their way through the 15 minutes of pain need to be willing to show some decorum in-game and not expect every other player to drop what ever they are doing to answer a basic question that could have been enlightened through a few minutes of tutorial work. Also with many of the games being hyped as they are, there is often plenty of information available for assimilation if you take a few minutes to look for it on the net.
Plus many of the tutorials also provide those that complete them with a few added bonuses, such as in EVE where you get a few ships and some skills for free.
I have recently been bitten hard by LOTRO and find it a little frustrating when the chat window gets clogged with where do I find X when if they read the task details it usually points out where to start looking to complete the quest. That said I have asked for assistance in the past and have given my time freely to assist others, it what makes the community work.
Sigh... my computer just deleted my post midthrough thanks to a manditory refresh. Please stand by as I try to contemplate what I was saying, word for word.
Something about how we were all noobs once, and how after playing WoW, how I was still a noob in Perfect World because of how different it is. Different isn't bad though, it just stops you from AoE/CC grinding as a fire mage. There's also S4, which, due to my playstyle, made me all but useless as a player after a month long break which destroyed my ability to aim. Does that make me a noob? No.
Okay, where was I?
I guess I'll share my noob story. I remember when I first got WoW after graduating Rappelz after graduating Flyff after graduating Runescape. I made a mage, and because of a friend, did the opposite of what my instincts told me and went for fire, a raid spec. Between levels 1-20 I could get by just fine by fireball spam and occasionally using other skills. Simply put, I was afraid to do anything different-- cooldowns were a new and scary thing to me. I still carry that mentality to an extent, but not to such one where it involves me dying, and actually, it helps preventing that. As soon as level 21 came, the hell started... well it had started before that. I remember a friend of a friend almost ripping her hair out because while running me through an instance, I got the urge to help her, successfully dying over 20 times that night perhaps. More on that later. After quitting WoW, getting back to it, creating a druid, levelling said druid to 70, healing some heroics, failing Kara because of guildwide gear problems, I went back to that little fire mage. It was after the person who got me into WoW, and told me to level with a raidspec, told me to delete my mage that, out of defiance, I said no and looked up a guide to magery. That's where the fun started, from there on I learned how to take a single mob without getting hit, what the scary cooldowns were for, and etc.
On a side note, the raid spec was perhaps the best class to level with if you knew what you were doing. Mana economy sucked and it was the least forgiving but you could solo group quests as long as the elite wasn't immune to CC effects.
Time passed, and eventually I got said character to 70, along the way successfully redeeming my past noobdom that was aforementioned by at 60, taking that instance where I died and had my loot ninja'd for dying by the horns and conquering it. At 70 I didn't dps much as a mage, LK was about to release in like... 2 days. After that I levelled to 80 with little issue and hell, even won a few fights with an almost no stamina, levelling build. 80 came along and the class changed entirely, but I rolled with it and did decent dps in instances. It wasn't until the class changed a second time and fire spec was no longer a dps spec with crit gear that I literally just said "Fuck this" and quit.
So that's my noob story that came full circle. In the end I ended up a noob as well for now having the wrong gear build, while, before I quit, was surprised at how much damage a paladin could do without trying. I guess it's more of a 'WoW killed mages' story than anything.
Still, expanding my horizons to new games, I can easily say how easy it is to be a noob. Being a former WoW player didn't help one bit while playing Alaplaya's new Avalon Heroes. Not only was the notion of not being in complete control of your character alien, but the stats were weird too. My mentality was: +3 strength, who would use this? +7% damage? +20% stats? Well, it turned out that that made the golden difference, not only because of how the stats worked, but because there was no battlefeild skill involved-- you weren't sparring with an opponent in hopes of beating a rocket launcher with a pistol, you were sitting back commanding your hero to do so. Evidently, your hero's no legend so for using that mentality, you would only be labeled a noob, even by the one you love.
Just remember, noobs, we all start somewhere, and it can take years to exit noobdom. If you're a noob and ask for help, the people that tell you to fuck off in nicer words, contrary to this article, are elitist trolls--assholes. Admittedly I do laugh alittle on the inside when I see a 60 warrior in intellect gear and naturally go "fail" when he tries to gank my friend of the same level with 3 70s standing by, but we all have to start somewhere and we all have different learning speeds. Well, admittedly I didn't know he was in int gear till later thanks to an ally friend I had on msn, but still...
Don't be afraid to ask questions, because especially in some of the newer games, reading the manual's a fractal mess even for experienced players. Don't take offense to advice either, however. I guess the biggest pointers I can give that are just ahead of basic are: Don't ignore the crafting/enchanting system the game tries to, usually poorly, introduce early on; it will bite your ass later. If there's an ingame help function, check it before asking, if not, ask away and at least the better minded players will almost always help you. Read spell descriptions carefully too and remember, the best class to start on is usually the warrior. That's all I can think of for now, and now I'm going to post before I hit control+v and have the page lock up on me forcing me to refresh.
People that put themselves above others put me in a bad mood.
http://www.surrealtwilight.com/index.php
^Has nothing to do with that retarded Vampire Novel Series, I swear!^
Yeah, I'm pretty slow too... 0 to 60 in about a year lol. If you ever see me in a game and you got questions, I'll be more than happy to give you some direction if I got the time.
Godspeed my fellow gamer
This article and so many replies sadly demonstrates the state of the communities on the internet. For some reason, compassion and respect are looked at as weaknesses. Open your mind and your heart and you will gain more than the shallow satisfaction one gets from pwning someone whos skill and knowledge are much below your own. Teach a noob, make a friend, then maybe you can have real fun.
One love.
I think you missed the point. Also, how many people really have to leave game to start up a browser these days? Most MMOs support tabbing and windowed mode. Heck, many have a database you can use in game.
As I pointed out, there are questions vets understand and support, and your last sentence echoed what I said in my article. But a new player shouldn't come in game and ask a million questions about the class they selected that would have been answered if they spent five minutes reading the game website, or ask someone to make them a character build in general chat - these things should be researched.
Being self-resourceful is a skill that's valued outside the game world too. An English teacher isn't there to be your personal dictionary; a boss isn't there to tell you how to do every little detail in your job. Vets aren't asking for new players to not ask questions; vets are asking new players to not rely on them for every single little thing.
So if you think your English teacher is a prick when they tell you how to use a dictionary after you ask them to define more than a few words in your reading assignment, then yes, I'm that kind of prick.
Only one missing any point is yourself.
It's a damn game. It's for fun. It's not a job, other players are not your boss. It's not English class, other players are not your English professor and they have every ability to ignore questions if they feel it too beneath them to respond. Raknar was correct, you are a prick.
Im one of those that step into games without any knowledge.
But i love it that way i wanne learn all when i play, not first find out before go ingame.
So far and that is sinds 99 ive np at all, but i also never bother others with silly questions eather.
And when ive learn most basic or even more about game im also that guy that always help new/noob players, im that guy that they talk about in general and say ask him he always help you out he is very helpfull and nice.
And that for someone who play mostly hardcore free for all games and have ingame no mercy, but help out who wants it friend or foe in chat i dont make exceptions i help all who want it.
But its sometimes beyond believe how some buy a game dont check if there pc/laptop can handle game or bought it and find out its harsh pk game and then start crying i dont like those and wont help them ill be silence then:P
Newbees/noobs you will always have you just have to learn live with it.
Ive seen plenty so called vets still doing stupid things but claiming being awesome hehe.
Some friendlyness and patience and helpfullness can't hurt where not all with super high intelligents and nobody have made his own brain so give them some slack will yah:)
Some helpfull hand can't hurt right?
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Im keep doing it but make friends becouse you help noobs is rare, there polite enough to say thank you but thats mostly it, im talking with my experience in Darkfall now.
Asheron's call 2 so far was exception that community was awesome beyond believe.
There are even those who try ask for even more after you help them in kind of demanding way lol, without any shame or moral lol.
But i never want anything for my help so mostly np there.
It sometimes payes, that people who have helped suddenly give you something or wanne help you thats nice tho.
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
Good article. I'd like to add some more advice for nubs...
1. Do the tutorial and read everything in it at least once. I'm usually a pretty helpful person but when I start seeing questions from people that I know for a fact are underlined in bid bold letters with a bright red circle around them on the 2nd step of the tutorial I pretty much go into ignore mode on any future questions from those people no matter how valid those questions are.
2. Be polite. If people wanna be rude to you for asking a question that's their problem but you're much more likely to find the helpful people if you are polite to start. I can't tell you how many people I've seen being rude idiots only to ask for help 3 seconds later and then get all pissed off when no one wants to help them.
3. Labeled global channels (Trade, WTS/WTB, LFG) are not for random questions and chatter. You might get your questions answered if you ask them in these channels but you're probably going to get less "dumbass/noob" points if you use your local/region/class channels first and then if you don't get an answer use a global as a last resort. I know when I see people asking in the local channel and then in global I'm a lot less annoyed by their off topic chat spam in the global channels.
4. Use the search feature to look for people who you can send a tell/whisper to in order to ask them questions rather than using the global channels. If I have done my research and I still have questions about say warriors I will do a search for the higher level ones and then send one a tell along the lines of "Hey have you got a couple minutes to answer some questions about warriors?" I will usually always help someone with questions if they send me a polite tell and I've found that most other people will as well. This is also a good way to meet new people. I've gotten lots of friends from these kinds of encounters.
Call me an idealist, call me a rare person, or call me a liar, I don't care, but I abhor the term noob, much less ever laughed at a new person.
I played DAoC for 3 years before really understanding what that term meant, and I really think it's a term that was mainly used in the generation of players that came into the genre after me.
I agree with the articles points though. While I may not use the term noob, I do see a lack of effort from players in a game, and think of them as lazy or idiots. In the past two releases I've played (AION & STO), one thing that's really bugged me are the people who don't explore the basic use of their AI, their menus, their surroundings, nor do they read the quest text. They then proceed to flood the chat channel with questions I find idiotic and lazy, since they'd of found the answers to those questions if they would just make the above effort.
So because of the fact that the majority of people who even use the chat channel are like that, I rarely even have the chat channel open anymore. So I've gone from being an avid grouper and group starter, to a solo oriented player who groups mainly with the guild and PUG's only for things that needs grouping.
One important point I believe you may have missed is, that while there are those examples you speak of in your post, there are others out there. There are those that will be taught, yet don't care to learn. Some that will have no interest in becoming your friend. And finally there are those that will suck all the enjoyment out of your helping them by leaching every ounce of courtesy you're willing to give, with absolutely no thought of appreciation or an inkling of retention for that of which you are teaching them and/or willingness to pay it forward. Believe it or not there are even a few out there that do not, for a mere second, look at what you are doing as a gift of generosity, but in fact, (shudder) believe you 'owe' it to them.
Having said all that, I have always been more than willing to help and will often go out of my way, as I do believe in karma. However, at the same token, I also believe in a healthy ignore list.
Your fail comment, failed.
Let me put it this way. If you had to start a colony on a new world, and you had to pick 20 people from a pool of 40, where 20 of those 40 made every effort to learn, weren't lazy, and had common sense, while the other 20 relied on others to do the learning for them, were lazy and had no common sense. Which 20 people would you choose? Which colony do you think will thrive the most?
Now in a game, you are still a part of a community, whether that community is playing for fun or not. This means that people will still loosely formulate a society akin to the one you live in in real life. So people will seperate into groups, and the same attributes will be frowned upon in the game as are out of the game. Just like rudeness is frowned upon outside the game, rudeness is frowned upon inside the game. Just like laziness is frowned upon in real life, laziness in frowned upon in game life. Just like people who are resourceful, read the manual, the tutorial, their quests, and explore their UI and surroundings in a game are respected in a game, those in real life who are resourceful, read their text books and manuals, listen to those wiser and more knowledgable than them, and aren't afraid to explore what's avialable to them are respected.
Just because you're playing a game, doesn't give you the excuse to be a lazy stupid bum; a leech on the community. I am more than happy to help people, as I was helped when I was a new player in DAoC. However, if you ask questions that were answered already in the manual, tutorial, or could be found by exploring the UI, Menu's, and your surroundings, then I won't answer those questions and will likely think less of you as a person.
You can call me an elitist prick or arrogant if you want, I really don't care, because anyone who values mediocrity, laziness, and blatant ignorance doesn't have a opinion even worthy of listening to.
I do not have any sympathy or tolerance for the willfully ignorant when there are so many books to read, schools to go to, and ways to fund your education. Everyone is ignorant to something, it's those who know their ignorant and take the steps to educate themselves without being overly dependant on others, who gain my respect.
I agree. I know those who have been playing for a long time and know and understand the game just don't want to take the time to help noobs. The truth is we were all noobs once and some people can't figure things out as quick as others.
I remember when I began gaming it was in Diablo. Ah yea the click to move and what seemed so easy for those who had played games for some time was not all that easy for someone like me. Then on to a much different platform, EQ which was a big change. Combat, movement, the world and oh my it was open! (opposed to choosing who could join or not) Luckily I had a friend who sat and walked me through the steps on a class/race she played. Later I changed it but not till I had better understanding of what the hell was going on. lol But as I saw people asking for help in game I would sit and take time to explain things to them and help them out. People won't play a game if they are not able to understand it. That means subs lost and maybe the fall of the game you are enjoying. hmm
By the time I moved on to WoW the game mechanics were easier for me. But even so the world and such was different than EQ. Classes, races and roles were different as well. Oh and I could solo! I have helped many along the way. Because I remember being the noob and what it was like. I want the game to continue and to me helping noobs will help this.
I have played some of f2p that even with my years of gaming I ask for help on something and sadly more times than not I get no reply. Can you say uninstall. I am not going to play a game if I can't enjoy it. Gaming is my fun and entertainment. I think out of all the f2p I have tried Atlantis is the only one I have not had that kind of issue. Mainly because it actually benefits you to help others.
Gikku
To the author of this article, how would you like it if, on the day of your eventual heart attack, the EMTs just laughed at you and said, "L2Exercise, n00b!"? I don't know why you demigods of gaming would be so annoyed by the questions of new players, considering the majority of these questions are mainly asked in the starter levels. There's no prerequisite for you to answer, and you won't have to deal with these "lowly" players once you reach mid-game. I'd rather have my chat box filled with the questions of new players, rather than the usual spam of gold farmers.
Yes, I've certainly laughed at the foibles of new players, but not in gamechat where they can feel that they are the butt of joke.
While I've played in many games over the years I'm still a noob when I enter a new game, or even when I enter an utterly new zone in game that I've played for years. When I'm away from the game for a while I still make gross mistakes on my return that provoke comment, most recently in gamechat "A$$... you'll wish you hadn't bought that account." And in private contact for the same mess, "Here's the link to ... . It will help you a lot." I try to play like the player who contacted me in private. I hope that I succeed.
It would be nice if everyone did all of the research before starting the game, but that's not ever going to happen. Doesn't happen elsewhere in real life; is fantasy to think it will happen with MMORPG's. Performing all of the research wouldn't solve all of the issues that veteran players have with new ones: a child of ten commonly has a different comprehension from that of a teenager or an "older" player. Players who have played any kind of computer-required game have a different understanding of the documentation from players that have only played online versions of games like backgammon or poker.
How about a follow-on article on veteran players?
If you don't ask, no one can say, "YES!!"
This.
There is no shame in being new to something. In a good community, you can fully expect to receive useful advice if you're simply new and ask some good questions.
However, being new is no excuse for being lazy. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who are wasting my time because they are too lazy to do their homework. Asking basic things that are covered in the tutorial or that you can find by one quick search on the net counts as wasting my time. Especially since I could be answering good questions that are not covered in a tutorial..
This.
There is no shame in being new to something. In a good community, you can fully expect to receive useful advice if you're simply new and ask some good questions.
However, being new is no excuse for being lazy. I have absolutely no sympathy for people who are wasting my time because they are too lazy to do their homework. Asking basic things that are covered in the tutorial or that you can find by one quick search on the net counts as wasting my time. Especially since I could be answering good questions that are not covered in a tutorial..
How are they wasting YOUR time? Are you under contract to answer them? Are you pathologically driven to respond to their questions whether you want to answer them or not? No? Then they are not wasting YOUR time.
I must be one of those rare personalities.. because I really don't enjoy getting my jollies off by insulting people or forum-smacking people. I am a community builder.. not some eliteist who wantst to demonstrate his exceptional skills.
Killing new players.. or forum bashing.. or insulting... what a gigantic waste of energy. Its not a 'teaching tools' most times.. its just a way from one human being to vent their frustrations (whatever the source) on an easy target.
Every new player is possible a future team mate.
Every new player is putting $$$ into a game that may be used to make it better.
Every new player is not going to know it all or even know where to look.
It takes some bravery to ASK a question when you are stuck. Yes.. sometimes new players over-do it and get a little to dependant on asking everyone the quick answer.
But I don't instantly make that assumption. Forums seem ripe with people simply looking to find a reason to express anger. Cyber-bullies exist.. and they haunt every public forum I've ever had the luxury of visiting.
For every idiot new player there is probably a dozen or more good candidates. But they are all painted with the same brush on the forums.
Asking newbie questions to players In-game does not seem to result in as much bashing as as on the forums. Its like players are less impolite in-person (virtually) than on via forum replies.. but thats not always the case.
Look.. newbies are not better or worse than Veterans. They're plenty of 'verterans' that do way more harm than good as well. They don't instantly get a 'get-out-of-jail' free card because of their post count or guild size or # of years playing. If the are jerks and trolls.. I'd take a dozen newbies asking me the same question three times a day to get rid of those players.
If you know the answer.. tell it without the bloody drama and 'teach you a lesson' attitude.
If you don't know the answer, DON'T reply... or FIND IT OUT... or POLITELY make a suggestion on where to find it.
Its just a question, and if you don't have the time to reply to it then don't and SKIP the tempation just to hit reply and bash the player.
I wonder how many forum threads would be useful and short if they didn't get burried with all the negative replies that invariably have to be posted for simple questions.
No excuses... you decide what you read, what you reply to (or not)... I'd say its not the newbies fault they asked a simple question.. at least they are trying to learn.
Ya.. if the are ignorant and making assumptions.. point to the facts... and leave the thread already.
No 'quote war' argument is going to change anyone's personality flaws. Save your efforts for something constructive or just stay away if you lack the ability to do so.
Forums & player help area's are to help each other, first and foremost. Its not that hard to be nice.
SWG/STO/(SWTOR)