I think its more along the lines that your "tips" were more generous than supposed to be. You didn't ask questions and turned a blind eye as to where the money was coming from. Granted NCsoft acted VERY VERY late on this, you leveled and developed on illegal items and gold and therefore the majority of your progress is now tainted by illegitamacy. It was either that or de-level you, and what point to revert you to etc could be quite chaotic so account termination is the most straight forward and easiest.
That or you actually knew about the bad kinah and you pretend to be the innocent victim which happens with 95% of the people who not only get banned in games but get thrown in jail and claim innocence. *shrug* I guess the story here is to question where you get your handouts from because if its too good to be true, usually there's a catch.
why should you have to ask anyone where they got their money, hes not a cop. obviously he was playing the game the way it should be played.
my account was recently banned for no reason at all, never botted, or ever bought anything from a third party, the game is cool, but the customer service sucks...they werent helpful at all, not willing to look into it, i do believe my account was hacked, and apparently i was penalized for it. i only got a month and a half worth of playing time, good luck to all that play this game.
So the complaint is... you were cheating, people wanted cheats banned, NCSoft banned the cheats including you, now you are unhappy about that? I do believe that you didn't know where the money came from, however I am tempted to believe that's because you didn't ask either. NCSoft are actually doing the right thing here and it would be good to see other developers follow this pattern too, a slash and burn policy for all those associated with cheating would deter gold farming much better than any other measure.
Why should he care where the money came from? It's not his problem. It's NCSOFT' problem and the problem who bought the kinah.
Why should he care where the money came from? It's not his problem. It's NCSOFT' problem and the problem who bought the kinah.
Do you seriously think it is so easy to fix this?
You obviously don't understand the problem RMT causes in a game with so many players.
As I said, the guy was removed from the game because he was linked to RMT. He can now contact support to sort it out with them (will probably take him a couple weeks due to the high number of players). Meanwhile, the RMT he was benefiting from is not in the game anymore.
hmmm... ok lets look at it this way, say im selling something on the player market and someone buys the said item with Kinah they bought from a *website* does that mean im going to get banned for receiving bought Kinah?... If i trade for something from a player how the hell im i supposed to know that guy has bought the Kinah?.. im banned again, pretty retarded i think hey!!, that last bit actually happened to me in game, NCsoft did eventually sort it out and i got a somewhat reluctant apology after about 3 weeks, my reply was delete the account and stop payment and to charge back what they owed me in back game time. i got it back by the way as well.
You cant tell who has bought kinah or items by just trading with them, NCsoft can but shouldnt ban people because of there ignorance,
The goldsellers and bots in Aion just like drug dealer wants to expand their business so they decided to roaming on the street, they don't care about get caught or get ban, they only want to making more money before ban. That was the mentality of illegal business. It does not matter how many accounts has been banned. They only calculate the final profit.
Ever since the botters are greatly reduced in Aion, prices gone up unbelivably high and constantly short of supply from auction house. It makes grinding even more heavier and nearly impossible to play.
The inflation is even worse than there was goldsellers and botters.
But why people hate goldseller so much? Because they 24/7 around the clock spamming the goldselling advertising in the chat, everyone has been affected by their business. And botters occupied the location makes people even more difficult to play Aion.
The solution for Aion is reduced the inflation problem, reduce the material price and increase the Kinah drops, make people rich is so-called economy. It will boost people to grinding and enjoy to have best armors/weapons they can have.
Aion follows the hardwork game style which is not realistic. In real world, you need to work hard to earn your money, but in virtual world, it should be opposite. That's why people like the virtual world.
Wonderful news, keep the banhammer falling on those muppets that cant get into their little heads that cheating is not allowed.
The more they ban from Aion the more I feel like comming back. Gone with the bots, gone with the cheaters, gone with the kinah selling muppets and those that "think" they use it legit.
Taking Kinah from someone that says "woohoo I got a billion Kinah, here have a few million" is as equal guilty and should get banned too.
hmmm... ok lets look at it this way, say im selling something on the player market and someone buys the said item with Kinah they bought from a *website* does that mean im going to get banned for receiving bought Kinah?... If i trade for something from a player how the hell im i supposed to know that guy has bought the Kinah?.. im banned again, pretty retarded i think hey!!, that last bit actually happened to me in game, NCsoft did eventually sort it out and i got a somewhat reluctant apology after about 3 weeks, my reply was delete the account and stop payment and to charge back what they owed me in back game time. i got it back by the way as well.
You cant tell who has bought kinah or items by just trading with them, NCsoft can but shouldnt ban people because of there ignorance,
But the problem is that it's one of the ways people that bought kinah from gold sellers get their kinah, you put an expensive item in AH and the gold seller buys it.
So the complaint is... you were cheating, people wanted cheats banned, NCSoft banned the cheats including you, now you are unhappy about that? I do believe that you didn't know where the money came from, however I am tempted to believe that's because you didn't ask either. NCSoft are actually doing the right thing here and it would be good to see other developers follow this pattern too, a slash and burn policy for all those associated with cheating would deter gold farming much better than any other measure.
Good plan. When someone cheated on a server they should close it down and ban everyone who had a character on that server, because somehow all were involved in it. Maybe they should take it even one step further and ban everyone who had an account at the moment someone cheated. Serves them well. /sarcasm off
It is sad this happened to you, but you should blame him, no one else.
"Guilt" by association... Whata concept... Of course it files in the face of such ancient concepts as justice and fairness. But hell, what do we care? Ban'em all and let CS sort'em out! But anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with what NCsoft laughingly calls "Customer Service", wouldn't be quite so quick on the trigger.
It is sad this happened to you, but you should blame him, no one else.
"Guilt" by association... Whata concept... Of course it files in the face of such ancient concepts as justice and fairness. But hell, what do we care? Ban'em all and let CS sort'em out! But anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with what NCsoft laughingly calls "Customer Service", wouldn't be quite so quick on the trigger.
Yeah, it's not like in the real world people get in trouble all the time for things like receiving stolen property or being an accessory to a crime. If you didn't personally commit the crime, you're fine!
It is sad this happened to you, but you should blame him, no one else.
"Guilt" by association... Whata concept... Of course it files in the face of such ancient concepts as justice and fairness. But hell, what do we care? Ban'em all and let CS sort'em out! But anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with what NCsoft laughingly calls "Customer Service", wouldn't be quite so quick on the trigger.
Yeah, it's not like in the real world people get in trouble all the time for things like receiving stolen property or being an accessory to a crime. If you didn't personally commit the crime, you're fine!
To be an accessory before, after the fact, or a conspirator, and ot be charged criminally with receiving stolen property, you have to have knowledge or constructive knowledge of the crime. Constructive knowledge being basically that a reasonable person should have known under the circumstances.
The OP seems to have been banned when there was not anything to indicate he should have known the other party was a kinah buyer (hence the unban after petitioning). That is probably perfectly fine under their EULA, but a bad move in terms of PR.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
the problem is there is no real fix for this and Nc could never be sure you wasn't involved. gold farmers have been using secondary accounts to move the kinah, to them your GM was one of these secondary accounts and was selling you the kinah.
never read the posts about the guy ripping off the gold sellers and ended up with a temp bann till it all got sorted out? gold sellers was setting up shops in a certain spot, the guy was making characters with almost identical names and had the same exact items in his shop for the same prices but farther out so the sellers would see him first. gold sellers was funneling money form one account to another by putting up shop selling stacks of junk for INSANE prices like millions for 100 arrows. he ended up getting the money legitimately when you think about it in simple terms, he just sold them junk just at SUPER HIGH prices. was thier own fault they bought a stack of 100 arrows for 10 million kinah...lol
but like i said to them your GM looked like he was one of the secondary accounts funneling/selling money to all you other people he "Helped". only put help in quotes because at the time it seemed like he was helping but ended up screwing you if that is how it happend.
Wonderful news, keep the banhammer falling on those muppets that cant get into their little heads that cheating is not allowed.
The more they ban from Aion the more I feel like comming back. Gone with the bots, gone with the cheaters, gone with the kinah selling muppets and those that "think" they use it legit.
Taking Kinah from someone that says "woohoo I got a billion Kinah, here have a few million" is as equal guilty and should get banned too.
have you actually ever played crafter in mmos?
crafter in guilds/clans ?
you get loads of materials to make the stuff they want without even asking where it comes from. i mean... why would you even do that?
'what do you need?'
'leather belt'
'where do those materials come from?'
'what kind of question is that? the auction ofcourse.'
thats as far as it could go... and without any results as well.
It is sad this happened to you, but you should blame him, no one else.
"Guilt" by association... Whata concept... Of course it files in the face of such ancient concepts as justice and fairness. But hell, what do we care? Ban'em all and let CS sort'em out! But anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with what NCsoft laughingly calls "Customer Service", wouldn't be quite so quick on the trigger.
Yeah, it's not like in the real world people get in trouble all the time for things like receiving stolen property or being an accessory to a crime. If you didn't personally commit the crime, you're fine!
You are confusing the legal system with justice... Happens frequently... You might also check up on what the charge of accessory(before or after the fact) entails... As for receiving stolen property its up to the state to *demonstrate* the guilt of the person in question. Though these days, such considerations tend to get lost after the mere accusation is lodged. As for NCsoft, they have a rather extensive history of ignoring botters and other such scum as long as they can(for years in Linage2) and then totally over reacting. Thats one of the reasons its chancy playing one of their games.
Ok so I played this game since open beta and have to say the game itself has been a real pleasure to play. I actually think the game is amazing. I loved it more then any mmo I've ever played and I have played a lot from everquest, eq2, ffxi, lotro, etc.
BUT.... ncsoft started listening to it's forums and to people who started complaining and whining day in and day out that there are too many RMTs and botters. They didn't just react though they went nuts!!!! Suddenly ncsoft started banning everyone!!!!!!! First people who actual botted or people who where turned in as botters. Then kinah sellers.. then kinah buyers... recently if you even talked to a person who was a botter, kinah seller, or a kinah buyer they'll ban you for that too saying if you talked to them or if you were in a legion with them or friends with them then you must of known of they're actions and didn't tell us so you can be banned for that even if you didn't actually know.
They told me I was banned because my legion leader had bought kinah and used that kinah to buy items for people in the legion to help out crafters get they're hearts and such they needed for recipe scrolls. Because I was a expert crafter and had been given items to use to craft for people and money from people in the guild for crafting I was considered associated with them and that was just as bad as buying the kinah myself even though I didn't know that's how some of the money had been acquired.
Everyone I know irl who still plays this game is scared out of their mind they're be banned at any moment even if they've done nothing wrong.
Like I said originally this game is amazing, but now NCsoft has ruined it and I'll never play this or any other game NCsoft ever makes in the future.
I'm looking forward to FFXIV or Tera unless something better comes along.
Wonderful news, keep the banhammer falling on those muppets that cant get into their little heads that cheating is not allowed.
The more they ban from Aion the more I feel like comming back. Gone with the bots, gone with the cheaters, gone with the kinah selling muppets and those that "think" they use it legit.
Taking Kinah from someone that says "woohoo I got a billion Kinah, here have a few million" is as equal guilty and should get banned too.
have you actually ever played crafter in mmos?
crafter in guilds/clans ?
you get loads of materials to make the stuff they want without even asking where it comes from. i mean... why would you even do that?
'what do you need?'
'leather belt'
'where do those materials come from?'
'what kind of question is that? the auction ofcourse.'
thats as far as it could go... and without any results as well.
Yeah thats kinda obvious, why would u ever ask a guildy where they got something from, unless he was new 2 the guild and you didn't know him as well? Like I gave my guildy 300k as soon as he asked in guild chat because he needed this crafting material that costs 1 mil, does that make me a gold seller/buyer? Not even close, why would you even consider asking someone," Hey where did you get this?" even if they did buy gold its not like they're going to say, "oh, just bought it from a gold seller." Sazabi is right, the convo will get u almost nowhere, besides even asking for or receiving say 2 mil shouldn't be weird with friends and guildys in aion, b/c once you get to maybe 42 if even that, getting money starts getting a lot easier with mobs and farming mats.
Since the subject element is very hard to be proved by its own nature (noone can read your mind to know if your guilty or not), then they end up accepting other means to prove the connection:
in games things like talking to with one using pms more than what they consider normal, being in the same guild/clan/legion is an objective connection, it works the same way as the theory of juridic person wall... as in someone cant use a juridic person to commit crimes and expect to be unpunished, thats why they created a theory that justify going inside the juridic person and actually punishing the legal responsibles... in games, its the clan/legion/guild members, ALL OF THEM.
Tough, but, hey, they cant allow criminals to cause effects and remain unpunished under the protection of a legion/clan saying that "they didnt knew" EVEN THOUGH THEY GAINED BENEFITS, DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY BY THOSE ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES.
There are many occurrences where a game company can bridge the criminals to other suspicious persons.
Justice is amazing, its an ilusion, is all about who has the power
(on the internet whinning on a forum, making multiple accounts to fortify your own posts is power, it causes effect, and it is too troublesome to be moderated, filtered, controlled, prevented, etc.)
I think its more along the lines that your "tips" were more generous than supposed to be. You didn't ask questions and turned a blind eye as to where the money was coming from. Granted NCsoft acted VERY VERY late on this, you leveled and developed on illegal items and gold and therefore the majority of your progress is now tainted by illegitamacy. It was either that or de-level you, and what point to revert you to etc could be quite chaotic so account termination is the most straight forward and easiest. That or you actually knew about the bad kinah and you pretend to be the innocent victim which happens with 95% of the people who not only get banned in games but get thrown in jail and claim innocence. *shrug* I guess the story here is to question where you get your handouts from because if its too good to be true, usually there's a catch.
I find this to be the case in all of the instances that I'm aware of. I actually knew of someone that was employed by a certain company to moderate this sort of thing. Based on my discussions with him, there is usually quite the trail of evidence (a mile long) that suggests the banned player was either fully involved or had to know well enough as to what was going on and was partaking in said practices with frequency. They just don't ban someone on a whim.
I've been playing these games for years now (and many of them) along with RL friends and none of us believe in partaking in such a thing. Coincidentally, none of us have ever been banned. Maybe we're all just lucky. Hmm, maybe I should buy a lottery ticket!
I think its more along the lines that your "tips" were more generous than supposed to be. You didn't ask questions and turned a blind eye as to where the money was coming from. Granted NCsoft acted VERY VERY late on this, you leveled and developed on illegal items and gold and therefore the majority of your progress is now tainted by illegitamacy. It was either that or de-level you, and what point to revert you to etc could be quite chaotic so account termination is the most straight forward and easiest. That or you actually knew about the bad kinah and you pretend to be the innocent victim which happens with 95% of the people who not only get banned in games but get thrown in jail and claim innocence. *shrug* I guess the story here is to question where you get your handouts from because if its too good to be true, usually there's a catch.
I find this to be the case in all of the instances that I'm aware of. I actually knew of someone that was employed by a certain company to moderate this sort of thing. Based on my discussions with him, there is usually quite the trail of evidence (a mile long) that suggests the banned player was either fully involved or had to know well enough as to what was going on and was partaking in said practices with frequency. They just don't ban someone on a whim.
I've been playing these games for years now (and many of them) along with RL friends and none of us believe in partaking in such a thing. Coincidentally, none of us have ever been banned. Maybe we're all just lucky. Hmm, maybe I should buy a lottery ticket!
I know two people who irl who work as GMs for SE here in Los Angeles. Over the time I've known them I've learned a lot of how SE goes about banning people and issuing warnings and just how the GMs do everything and personally SE is very very easy going with the bannings actually. They typically only look back 10 days unless they find something wrong on the account or a cheat or hack then they'll look back farther to see how many people have used it or more info into what this person has done. They'll warn the hell out of you at least 2 times and there are very few things you can do to get banned on a first offense.It's actually only racism, RMT selling, hacking, and botting that will get you banned without a warning by SE policy.
I've played FFXI since release on PC in north america and still to this day play it . I've never gotten a single GM warning and the two GMs I know don't monitor my server so it has nothing to do with them. I've had no issues in all thier ban waves & I continue to play it straight since day one just like I played Aion, but in Aion I still got banned for nothing that I personally did or had any knowledge of. This is the only MMO in my life I've been banned from and it pisses me off after spending 80 dollars on a limited edition copy and buying subscription to it and playing it for 5 months.
I had no issues in EQ, EQII, FFXI, LOTRO, or Eve.
I filed complaints with them they don't do anything and it takes nearly a week to even get a reply which is just insanely long. I filed against them on the Better business bureau against their texas company location and have written reviews on ebgames, amazon, newegg, and will be writing a review here of the game to detour people from throwing away money on this game.
As well as I've posted forums on aionsource and twittered to all my followers at just how horrible what they call customer service is and how they'll ban people for now good reason even if you didn't do anything.
Also don't expect ncsoft to un-ban because from what I've seen they don't do un-bans. I've even had one friend irl who I got into playing this game and his account was hacked stolen striped completely they even used tools to break all his blue and orange soul bound gear down to sell the enchantment stones they got off it before he could even get a reply from NCsoft on his ticket 5 days later. Then when they got the account back for him they didn't give him any of his items back even though they knew exactly what he had lost then they banned the account in the next wave for RMT activity. It was a rmt that stole his account and did illegal selling and trading on it. Even though they had records that his account was stolen by the RMT they still wouldn't un-ban his account.
There are so many cases I know of people irl who gave this game a try and all going back to LOTRO, FFXI, and such or who are just going to wait until FFXIV or something else comes along. Just go to Aion source and look around hundreds of posts and growing of many of the people who got banned and didn't deserve it.
So yes maybe you should go by a lotto ticket cause you're one of the lucky ones who haven't been banned "yet" but don't be surprised when you do or expect you can do anything about it cause they don't care.
Also don't expect ncsoft to un-ban because from what I've seen they don't do un-bans. I've even had one friend irl who I got into playing this game and his account was hacked stolen striped completely they even used tools to break all his blue and orange soul bound gear down to sell the enchantment stones they got off it before he could even get a reply from NCsoft on his ticket 5 days later. Then when they got the account back for him they didn't give him any of his items back even though they knew exactly what he had lost then they banned the account in the next wave for RMT activity. It was a rmt that stole his account and did illegal selling and trading on it. Even though they had records that his account was stolen by the RMT they still wouldn't un-ban his account. There are so many cases I know of people irl who gave this game a try and all going back to LOTRO, FFXI, and such or who are just going to wait until FFXIV or something else comes along. Just go to Aion source and look around hundreds of posts and growing of many of the people who got banned and didn't deserve it. So yes maybe you should go by a lotto ticket cause you're one of the lucky ones who haven't been banned "yet" but don't be surprised when you do or expect you can do anything about it cause they don't care.
hmmm, maybe I should buy a lotto ticket as well as I've never been banned or hacked. And I don't even use virus protection on my game computer.
NC does unban if it can be proven that it was a mistake.
As far as leaving Aion going back to lotro and final fantasy I would say that that feels more like they were looking for a more pve oriented game as both of those are essentially pve games. So regardless of any issues with NC Soft proper, Aion might not have been the game for them.
All I know is that I've been playing these games since 2004 (not a huge amount of time in the scheme of things but still sizeable) and I've never been unjustly banned nor have I ever been hacked. Given the amount of times I see players saying that they have been hacked and unjustly banned I would expect that at some time it should happen. But it hasn't.
My thought about the hackings is that players are just not being careful, going to sites that are risky, perhaps some are buying money or doing power leveling and they are just plain putting themselves at risk. As far as bannings, we know that unjust bannigns do happen but I've also known people who publicly claimed they were unjustly banned and after the fact admitted that they had done a few things that might deserve a ban. So I always have to take what players claim with a grain of salt.
But as I said, they do make mistakes and have given players back their accounts if it seemed that it was a mistake.
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Comments
I think its more along the lines that your "tips" were more generous than supposed to be. You didn't ask questions and turned a blind eye as to where the money was coming from. Granted NCsoft acted VERY VERY late on this, you leveled and developed on illegal items and gold and therefore the majority of your progress is now tainted by illegitamacy. It was either that or de-level you, and what point to revert you to etc could be quite chaotic so account termination is the most straight forward and easiest.
That or you actually knew about the bad kinah and you pretend to be the innocent victim which happens with 95% of the people who not only get banned in games but get thrown in jail and claim innocence. *shrug* I guess the story here is to question where you get your handouts from because if its too good to be true, usually there's a catch.
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Games Tried: TCOS, 12sky, 12Sky2, Rappelz, LoA, GO, HO, GMU, Warrock, TR, PWI, SotNW:GE, PotC, EVE, MxO, PotBS, KO, HO, 9Dragons, LotRO, DDO, L2, Maplestory, Second Life, CoX, GW, EQ2, Ryzom, WoW, Planetside, SWG, FE, Aion, Allods, CO, etc
why should you have to ask anyone where they got their money, hes not a cop. obviously he was playing the game the way it should be played.
my account was recently banned for no reason at all, never botted, or ever bought anything from a third party, the game is cool, but the customer service sucks...they werent helpful at all, not willing to look into it, i do believe my account was hacked, and apparently i was penalized for it. i only got a month and a half worth of playing time, good luck to all that play this game.
Why should he care where the money came from? It's not his problem. It's NCSOFT' problem and the problem who bought the kinah.
Do you seriously think it is so easy to fix this?
You obviously don't understand the problem RMT causes in a game with so many players.
As I said, the guy was removed from the game because he was linked to RMT. He can now contact support to sort it out with them (will probably take him a couple weeks due to the high number of players). Meanwhile, the RMT he was benefiting from is not in the game anymore.
hmmm... ok lets look at it this way, say im selling something on the player market and someone buys the said item with Kinah they bought from a *website* does that mean im going to get banned for receiving bought Kinah?... If i trade for something from a player how the hell im i supposed to know that guy has bought the Kinah?.. im banned again, pretty retarded i think hey!!, that last bit actually happened to me in game, NCsoft did eventually sort it out and i got a somewhat reluctant apology after about 3 weeks, my reply was delete the account and stop payment and to charge back what they owed me in back game time. i got it back by the way as well.
You cant tell who has bought kinah or items by just trading with them, NCsoft can but shouldnt ban people because of there ignorance,
The goldsellers and bots in Aion just like drug dealer wants to expand their business so they decided to roaming on the street, they don't care about get caught or get ban, they only want to making more money before ban. That was the mentality of illegal business. It does not matter how many accounts has been banned. They only calculate the final profit.
Ever since the botters are greatly reduced in Aion, prices gone up unbelivably high and constantly short of supply from auction house. It makes grinding even more heavier and nearly impossible to play.
The inflation is even worse than there was goldsellers and botters.
But why people hate goldseller so much? Because they 24/7 around the clock spamming the goldselling advertising in the chat, everyone has been affected by their business. And botters occupied the location makes people even more difficult to play Aion.
The solution for Aion is reduced the inflation problem, reduce the material price and increase the Kinah drops, make people rich is so-called economy. It will boost people to grinding and enjoy to have best armors/weapons they can have.
Aion follows the hardwork game style which is not realistic. In real world, you need to work hard to earn your money, but in virtual world, it should be opposite. That's why people like the virtual world.
Wonderful news, keep the banhammer falling on those muppets that cant get into their little heads that cheating is not allowed.
The more they ban from Aion the more I feel like comming back. Gone with the bots, gone with the cheaters, gone with the kinah selling muppets and those that "think" they use it legit.
Taking Kinah from someone that says "woohoo I got a billion Kinah, here have a few million" is as equal guilty and should get banned too.
But the problem is that it's one of the ways people that bought kinah from gold sellers get their kinah, you put an expensive item in AH and the gold seller buys it.
Good plan. When someone cheated on a server they should close it down and ban everyone who had a character on that server, because somehow all were involved in it. Maybe they should take it even one step further and ban everyone who had an account at the moment someone cheated. Serves them well. /sarcasm off
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Delanor
You were fucked by your guild leader.
It is sad this happened to you, but you should blame him, no one else.
"Guilt" by association... Whata concept... Of course it files in the face of such ancient concepts as justice and fairness. But hell, what do we care? Ban'em all and let CS sort'em out! But anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with what NCsoft laughingly calls "Customer Service", wouldn't be quite so quick on the trigger.
You were fucked by your guild leader.
It is sad this happened to you, but you should blame him, no one else.
"Guilt" by association... Whata concept... Of course it files in the face of such ancient concepts as justice and fairness. But hell, what do we care? Ban'em all and let CS sort'em out! But anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with what NCsoft laughingly calls "Customer Service", wouldn't be quite so quick on the trigger.
Yeah, it's not like in the real world people get in trouble all the time for things like receiving stolen property or being an accessory to a crime. If you didn't personally commit the crime, you're fine!
You were fucked by your guild leader.
It is sad this happened to you, but you should blame him, no one else.
"Guilt" by association... Whata concept... Of course it files in the face of such ancient concepts as justice and fairness. But hell, what do we care? Ban'em all and let CS sort'em out! But anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with what NCsoft laughingly calls "Customer Service", wouldn't be quite so quick on the trigger.
Yeah, it's not like in the real world people get in trouble all the time for things like receiving stolen property or being an accessory to a crime. If you didn't personally commit the crime, you're fine!
To be an accessory before, after the fact, or a conspirator, and ot be charged criminally with receiving stolen property, you have to have knowledge or constructive knowledge of the crime. Constructive knowledge being basically that a reasonable person should have known under the circumstances.
The OP seems to have been banned when there was not anything to indicate he should have known the other party was a kinah buyer (hence the unban after petitioning). That is probably perfectly fine under their EULA, but a bad move in terms of PR.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
the problem is there is no real fix for this and Nc could never be sure you wasn't involved. gold farmers have been using secondary accounts to move the kinah, to them your GM was one of these secondary accounts and was selling you the kinah.
never read the posts about the guy ripping off the gold sellers and ended up with a temp bann till it all got sorted out? gold sellers was setting up shops in a certain spot, the guy was making characters with almost identical names and had the same exact items in his shop for the same prices but farther out so the sellers would see him first. gold sellers was funneling money form one account to another by putting up shop selling stacks of junk for INSANE prices like millions for 100 arrows. he ended up getting the money legitimately when you think about it in simple terms, he just sold them junk just at SUPER HIGH prices. was thier own fault they bought a stack of 100 arrows for 10 million kinah...lol
but like i said to them your GM looked like he was one of the secondary accounts funneling/selling money to all you other people he "Helped". only put help in quotes because at the time it seemed like he was helping but ended up screwing you if that is how it happend.
have you actually ever played crafter in mmos?
crafter in guilds/clans ?
you get loads of materials to make the stuff they want without even asking where it comes from. i mean... why would you even do that?
'what do you need?'
'leather belt'
'where do those materials come from?'
'what kind of question is that? the auction ofcourse.'
thats as far as it could go... and without any results as well.
You were fucked by your guild leader.
It is sad this happened to you, but you should blame him, no one else.
"Guilt" by association... Whata concept... Of course it files in the face of such ancient concepts as justice and fairness. But hell, what do we care? Ban'em all and let CS sort'em out! But anyone who has had the misfortune to deal with what NCsoft laughingly calls "Customer Service", wouldn't be quite so quick on the trigger.
Yeah, it's not like in the real world people get in trouble all the time for things like receiving stolen property or being an accessory to a crime. If you didn't personally commit the crime, you're fine!
You are confusing the legal system with justice... Happens frequently... You might also check up on what the charge of accessory(before or after the fact) entails... As for receiving stolen property its up to the state to *demonstrate* the guilt of the person in question. Though these days, such considerations tend to get lost after the mere accusation is lodged. As for NCsoft, they have a rather extensive history of ignoring botters and other such scum as long as they can(for years in Linage2) and then totally over reacting. Thats one of the reasons its chancy playing one of their games.
Aren't they a Korean Company?
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
have you actually ever played crafter in mmos?
crafter in guilds/clans ?
you get loads of materials to make the stuff they want without even asking where it comes from. i mean... why would you even do that?
'what do you need?'
'leather belt'
'where do those materials come from?'
'what kind of question is that? the auction ofcourse.'
thats as far as it could go... and without any results as well.
Yeah thats kinda obvious, why would u ever ask a guildy where they got something from, unless he was new 2 the guild and you didn't know him as well? Like I gave my guildy 300k as soon as he asked in guild chat because he needed this crafting material that costs 1 mil, does that make me a gold seller/buyer? Not even close, why would you even consider asking someone," Hey where did you get this?" even if they did buy gold its not like they're going to say, "oh, just bought it from a gold seller." Sazabi is right, the convo will get u almost nowhere, besides even asking for or receiving say 2 mil shouldn't be weird with friends and guildys in aion, b/c once you get to maybe 42 if even that, getting money starts getting a lot easier with mobs and farming mats.
Thats what happens in Criminal Law.
Since the subject element is very hard to be proved by its own nature (noone can read your mind to know if your guilty or not), then they end up accepting other means to prove the connection:
in games things like talking to with one using pms more than what they consider normal, being in the same guild/clan/legion is an objective connection, it works the same way as the theory of juridic person wall... as in someone cant use a juridic person to commit crimes and expect to be unpunished, thats why they created a theory that justify going inside the juridic person and actually punishing the legal responsibles... in games, its the clan/legion/guild members, ALL OF THEM.
Tough, but, hey, they cant allow criminals to cause effects and remain unpunished under the protection of a legion/clan saying that "they didnt knew" EVEN THOUGH THEY GAINED BENEFITS, DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY BY THOSE ILLEGAL ACTIVITIES.
There are many occurrences where a game company can bridge the criminals to other suspicious persons.
Justice is amazing, its an ilusion, is all about who has the power
(on the internet whinning on a forum, making multiple accounts to fortify your own posts is power, it causes effect, and it is too troublesome to be moderated, filtered, controlled, prevented, etc.)
I find this to be the case in all of the instances that I'm aware of. I actually knew of someone that was employed by a certain company to moderate this sort of thing. Based on my discussions with him, there is usually quite the trail of evidence (a mile long) that suggests the banned player was either fully involved or had to know well enough as to what was going on and was partaking in said practices with frequency. They just don't ban someone on a whim.
I've been playing these games for years now (and many of them) along with RL friends and none of us believe in partaking in such a thing. Coincidentally, none of us have ever been banned. Maybe we're all just lucky. Hmm, maybe I should buy a lottery ticket!
Your fail comment, failed.
I find this to be the case in all of the instances that I'm aware of. I actually knew of someone that was employed by a certain company to moderate this sort of thing. Based on my discussions with him, there is usually quite the trail of evidence (a mile long) that suggests the banned player was either fully involved or had to know well enough as to what was going on and was partaking in said practices with frequency. They just don't ban someone on a whim.
I've been playing these games for years now (and many of them) along with RL friends and none of us believe in partaking in such a thing. Coincidentally, none of us have ever been banned. Maybe we're all just lucky. Hmm, maybe I should buy a lottery ticket!
I know two people who irl who work as GMs for SE here in Los Angeles. Over the time I've known them I've learned a lot of how SE goes about banning people and issuing warnings and just how the GMs do everything and personally SE is very very easy going with the bannings actually. They typically only look back 10 days unless they find something wrong on the account or a cheat or hack then they'll look back farther to see how many people have used it or more info into what this person has done. They'll warn the hell out of you at least 2 times and there are very few things you can do to get banned on a first offense.It's actually only racism, RMT selling, hacking, and botting that will get you banned without a warning by SE policy.
I've played FFXI since release on PC in north america and still to this day play it . I've never gotten a single GM warning and the two GMs I know don't monitor my server so it has nothing to do with them. I've had no issues in all thier ban waves & I continue to play it straight since day one just like I played Aion, but in Aion I still got banned for nothing that I personally did or had any knowledge of. This is the only MMO in my life I've been banned from and it pisses me off after spending 80 dollars on a limited edition copy and buying subscription to it and playing it for 5 months.
I had no issues in EQ, EQII, FFXI, LOTRO, or Eve.
I filed complaints with them they don't do anything and it takes nearly a week to even get a reply which is just insanely long. I filed against them on the Better business bureau against their texas company location and have written reviews on ebgames, amazon, newegg, and will be writing a review here of the game to detour people from throwing away money on this game.
As well as I've posted forums on aionsource and twittered to all my followers at just how horrible what they call customer service is and how they'll ban people for now good reason even if you didn't do anything.
Also don't expect ncsoft to un-ban because from what I've seen they don't do un-bans. I've even had one friend irl who I got into playing this game and his account was hacked stolen striped completely they even used tools to break all his blue and orange soul bound gear down to sell the enchantment stones they got off it before he could even get a reply from NCsoft on his ticket 5 days later. Then when they got the account back for him they didn't give him any of his items back even though they knew exactly what he had lost then they banned the account in the next wave for RMT activity. It was a rmt that stole his account and did illegal selling and trading on it. Even though they had records that his account was stolen by the RMT they still wouldn't un-ban his account.
There are so many cases I know of people irl who gave this game a try and all going back to LOTRO, FFXI, and such or who are just going to wait until FFXIV or something else comes along. Just go to Aion source and look around hundreds of posts and growing of many of the people who got banned and didn't deserve it.
So yes maybe you should go by a lotto ticket cause you're one of the lucky ones who haven't been banned "yet" but don't be surprised when you do or expect you can do anything about it cause they don't care.
hmmm, maybe I should buy a lotto ticket as well as I've never been banned or hacked. And I don't even use virus protection on my game computer.
NC does unban if it can be proven that it was a mistake.
As far as leaving Aion going back to lotro and final fantasy I would say that that feels more like they were looking for a more pve oriented game as both of those are essentially pve games. So regardless of any issues with NC Soft proper, Aion might not have been the game for them.
All I know is that I've been playing these games since 2004 (not a huge amount of time in the scheme of things but still sizeable) and I've never been unjustly banned nor have I ever been hacked. Given the amount of times I see players saying that they have been hacked and unjustly banned I would expect that at some time it should happen. But it hasn't.
My thought about the hackings is that players are just not being careful, going to sites that are risky, perhaps some are buying money or doing power leveling and they are just plain putting themselves at risk. As far as bannings, we know that unjust bannigns do happen but I've also known people who publicly claimed they were unjustly banned and after the fact admitted that they had done a few things that might deserve a ban. So I always have to take what players claim with a grain of salt.
But as I said, they do make mistakes and have given players back their accounts if it seemed that it was a mistake.
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