My thoughts are as usual "why is the mmo crowd so bitchy?". On the one hand you've got folks constantly throwing there 2-3 lifetime subs in your face and all of a sudden a sale that has no adverse effect on gameplay has the forums up in arms. Also though I'd also like to note while there is a fair number of posts complaining about it there's probably an equal number of people just constantly bumping up the negative posts each other are making (atleast that's what I noticed).
And for every constructive legitimate thread or post made about this issue and how it effects the community (Which has a HUGE effect on game play) there is of course a fanboi, content to stick his fingers in his ears and tell us we are all crazy all the while whistling the star trek theme.
All I got to say is epic fail. I am glad that I did not get involved with cryptic. Once bitten twice shy.
There is no way on this earth I would ever ever give cryptic any money. I hope they get sued out of existance by the folks who bough it then had the 60 days downgraded to 30.
Thanks for the links Nekolix! This is what Curs0r must be referring to:
Looking above note the wording in bold. In particular note how it's mentioned that you will get a double bonus. Not triple as others will have you believe. If it were truly 3 months 30 days w/purchase + 60 days in addition, then it would be included in the promo's description no?
Now look at the wording at the bottom: Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase.
Now please note that this isn't included with the body of the promo description, it's separate from it and follows the game description. Call it laziness on the part of Cryptic but it's part of the website that's normally there anyway. And I can see how some people would mistake this as meaning that ANOTHER 30 days is included making the promo a triple bonus, but it's not.
Now this screenshot shows what the purchasing screen looked like before (or after) the promo. Note that the same words:
Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase
is still in there and in the same spot. This tells me that the above screenshot showing the promo description was nothing more than a plug-in. And that the 30 Day trial included statement would be there with or without a promo involved.
It also goes to show me that players are reaching for an extra month even when the official promo description states that players will receive double the time they normally would and NOT triple. Make of it as you will but I stand by my original point.
Until I get a screenshot of a player that made the actual PURCHASE (which would include a breakdown of the services to be expected) I cannot think that a mere misunderstanding of a promo webpage holds enough weight to warrant a fraud lawsuit.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Thanks for the links Nekolix! This is what Curs0r must be referring to:
Looking above note the wording in bold. In particular note how it's mentioned that you will get a double bonus. Not triple as others will have you believe. If it were truly 3 months 30 days w/purchase + 60 days in addition, then it would be included in the promo's description no? Now look at the wording at the bottom: Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase. Now please note that this isn't included with the body of the promo description, it's separate from it and follows the game description. Call it laziness on the part of Cryptic but it's part of the website that's normally there anyway. And I can see how some people would mistake this as meaning that ANOTHER 30 days is included making the promo a triple bonus, but it's not.
Now this screenshot shows what the purchasing screen looked like before (or after) the promo. Note that the same words: Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase is still in there and in the same spot. This tells me that the above screenshot showing the promo description was nothing more than a plug-in. And that the 30 Day trial included statement would be there with or without a promo involved.
It also goes to show me that players are reaching for an extra month even when the official promo description states that players will receive double the time they normally would and NOT triple. Make of it as you will but I stand by my original point.
Until I get a screenshot of a player that made the actual PURCHASE (which would include a breakdown of the services to be expected) I cannot think that a mere misunderstanding of a promo webpage holds enough weight to warrant a fraud lawsuit.
What's weird is that those images prove the opposite of your take on the situation. Stay in school kids.
I went back through the advertisements. I think I can fix this. Many have said that they should receive 90 days additional game time. The advertisement said 60 days. Not 90. I hope this helps.
I went back through the advertisements. I think I can fix this. Many have said that they should receive 90 days additional game time. The advertisement said 60 days. Not 90. I hope this helps. Have a nice day!
You get a boxed set and a 60 day key they have to honor it, the guy in the STO forum post I put in here earlier and said Atari contacted him and he did get 90 days.
Thanks for the links Nekolix! This is what Curs0r must be referring to:
Looking above note the wording in bold. In particular note how it's mentioned that you will get a double bonus. Not triple as others will have you believe. If it were truly 3 months 30 days w/purchase + 60 days in addition, then it would be included in the promo's description no? Now look at the wording at the bottom: Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase. Now please note that this isn't included with the body of the promo description, it's separate from it and follows the game description. Call it laziness on the part of Cryptic but it's part of the website that's normally there anyway. And I can see how some people would mistake this as meaning that ANOTHER 30 days is included making the promo a triple bonus, but it's not.
Now this screenshot shows what the purchasing screen looked like before (or after) the promo. Note that the same words: Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase is still in there and in the same spot. This tells me that the above screenshot showing the promo description was nothing more than a plug-in. And that the 30 Day trial included statement would be there with or without a promo involved.
It also goes to show me that players are reaching for an extra month even when the official promo description states that players will receive double the time they normally would and NOT triple. Make of it as you will but I stand by my original point.
Until I get a screenshot of a player that made the actual PURCHASE (which would include a breakdown of the services to be expected) I cannot think that a mere misunderstanding of a promo webpage holds enough weight to warrant a fraud lawsuit.
Interesting how you completely ignore the parts that say "extra 60 days" and "additional 60 days." You're cherry picking to suit your own beliefs.
Directly from the ad copy: "Limited time double bonus! Buy Star Trek Online Collector's Edition before 9pm PST on Wed March 3rd and get FREE SHIPPING (* lower 48 states only) and extra 60 days free!"
"Your code for additional 60 days will be included in your emailed transaction confirmation."
I bolded, underlined and put it in italics as well as put it in bright yellow so that you won't miss it.
It clearly says you get a DOUBLE bonus not that it doubles your subscription time! It says double because A) 10$ off of the purchase price AND 60 days extra that sir IS a double bonus.
As well as the free shipping, which could be considered another bonus.
It's hilarious that Ramonski7 has been proven wrong time after time, yet he refuses to concede.
It clearly says you get a DOUBLE bonus not that it doubles your subscription time! It says double because A) 10$ off of the purchase price AND 60 days extra that sir IS a double bonus.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
It clearly says you get a DOUBLE bonus not that it doubles your subscription time! It says double because A) 10$ off of the purchase price AND 60 days extra that sir IS a double bonus.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
It clearly says you get a DOUBLE bonus not that it doubles your subscription time! It says double because A) 10$ off of the purchase price AND 60 days extra that sir IS a double bonus.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
He was agreeing with you.
I saw that after I posted, didn't have time to edit. I'm gunshy from being jumped by every troll on the STO forums. Sorry Mahuloq.
Hey wow, I can admit my mistakes! Neato maybe it'll catch on.
It clearly says you get a DOUBLE bonus not that it doubles your subscription time! It says double because A) 10$ off of the purchase price AND 60 days extra that sir IS a double bonus.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
He was agreeing with you.
I saw that after I posted, didn't have time to edit. I'm gunshy from being jumped by every troll on the STO forums. Sorry Mahuloq.
Hey wow, I can admit my mistakes! Neato maybe it'll catch on.
You bring up an interesting point here. There does seem to be some communication error here on the part of readers (Proving that you really need to read everything thoroughly before you press the "Pay Now!" Button).
As I know all too well, misunderstanding can get you into a lot of trouble. In Cryptic/Atari's Defense, it would seem they are taking efforts to honor such a deal, even if such a deal never actually existed, which at least makes me think they are working with the customers, rather than against them.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
What's weird is that those images prove the opposite of your take on the situation. Stay in school kids.
You're still not getting it. If they TRULY were giving away 90 free days it would be included in the promo description, no? It would say:
Limited time triple bonus! Buy Star Trek Online PC-DVD before 9pm PST on Wed
March 3rd and get $10 off and extra 90 days free! Your code for additional 90 days will
be included in your email transaction confirmation.
But then again many would take that to mean that they get 90 days + 30 free days with the purchase of the game. Then we'd all be back at square one again. It was simple a misunderstanding of the way the description of the promo was taken by some people.
A more effective way would be to write it as such so even the average person would get it:
Limited time double bonus! Buy Star Trek Online PC-DVD before 9pm PST on Wed March 3rd and get $10 off and extra 60 days free! That means in addition to the standard 30 days that's included with your purchase, you will receive an extra 30 days of free play! Your code for additional 60 days (instead of 30 days) will be included in your email transaction confirmation.
But like I said that's just me. I didn't get the picture that I would be getting that much time for free. But then again it's the first time I've seen this type of promo used for a MMO. And I've been around for a while.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
claimed to have seen first hand the listing of a 60 day gamecard being included with the deal along with a 30 day free month with purchase is hearsay.
If you have not actually MADE the purchase then your accounts of the facts run the possibility of appearing to be fabrications thought up to support a bias stance against the company when no more of those viewpoints are needed in the discussion. Right now I'm looking for evidence not fighting battles with forum jockeys.
Some people will go to any length to deny reality, amazing. What could be more clear that $39 for the box and an extra 60 days of gametime? The box normally comes with 30 days gametime, both the std and CE version, therefore the "extra 60 days" is in addition to that 30 days for a total of 90 days; otherwise it is not extra it is just 60 days gametime.
Shall we argue whether the Sun is hot or not next?
Good lord, maybe they would say what your saying if they were giving 90 days or only 30 more days. Those 30 days you get with your purchase is a guaranteed it isn't "free" you get it with your purchase. You are getting your : 30 days for the purchase of the product + 60 days extra for this promotion. God we are getting epicly trolled by this guy or he is just dense.
Good lord, maybe they would say what your saying if they were giving 90 days or only 30 more days. Those 30 days you get with your purchase is a guaranteed it isn't "free" you get it with your purchase. You are getting your : 30 days for the purchase of the product + 60 days extra for this promotion. God we are getting epicly trolled by this guy or he is just dense.
I am seriously beginning to think this is just a bid for attention.
I suspect Cryptic has adopted a revenue model based on making a simple quick game, calling it an MMO then attempt to make as much in box sales as you would from a standalone rpg. Then the subscription fees would be enormously profitable. I wouldn't have thought this could be possible given the ongoing costs of maintaining an MMO, but if you factor in Cryptic using the same engine for multiple games, relatively short dev time and their cookie-cutter, barely an mmo approach it may be possible. Add to that their reliance on established IP to drive sales and you can see how they may have pulled it off. Clearly this latest issue was driven by a need for box sales.
The whole situation is their own fault. All they had to do to prevent falling into this mess was make the game they were promising at the very beginning. Instead they made a piece of crap. Well, you reap what you sow.
Good lord, maybe they would say what your saying if they were giving 90 days or only 30 more days. Those 30 days you get with your purchase is a guaranteed it isn't "free" you get it with your purchase. You are getting your : 30 days for the purchase of the product + 60 days extra for this promotion. God we are getting epicly trolled by this guy or he is just dense.
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
Now the screw up with Atari/Cryptic is that most players that they are trying to entice are assuming that on top of the 30 days that they are getting for purchasing the game, that Atari will give them 60 more. But technically since there is no binding stipulation that dictates that they HAVE to given you 30 days in the first place, they can wordplay off that and say they ARE giving you 60 days. And in the technical sense they are giving you an extra 60 days on top of the zero you get when you make this promo purchase.
The only saving grace that players at this point have is the small description at the bottom of the purchasing screenshot that says players get a 30 day trial with their purchase. But that only goes as far as Atari wants it to. They can either put a disclaimer out to discredit that bit of information for this promo or simply say that a trial to unlock Klingons will be issued for 30 days. Either way it goes, so far no one has come up with a actual screenshot of what a final purchase screen included and without that we can speculate all night long about the situation.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Good lord, maybe they would say what your saying if they were giving 90 days or only 30 more days. Those 30 days you get with your purchase is a guaranteed it isn't "free" you get it with your purchase. You are getting your : 30 days for the purchase of the product + 60 days extra for this promotion. God we are getting epicly trolled by this guy or he is just dense.
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
Now the screw up with Atari/Cryptic is that most players that they are trying to entice are assuming that on top of the 30 days that they are getting for purchasing the game, that Atari will give them 60 more. But technically since there is no binding stipulation that dictates that they HAVE to given you 30 days in the first place, they can wordplay off that and say they ARE giving you 60 days. And in the technical sense they are giving you an extra 60 days on top of the zero you get when you make this promo purchase.
The only saving grace that players at this point have is the small description at the bottom of the purchasing screenshot that says players get a 30 day trial with their purchase. But that only goes as far as Atari wants it to. They can either put a disclaimer out to discredit that bit of information for this promo or simply say that a trial to unlock Klingons will be issued for 30 days. Either way it goes, so far no one has come up with a actual screenshot of what a final purchase screen included and without that we can speculate all night long about the situation.
Except that there is an asterisk and a disclaimer saying the the box comes standard with 30 days game time as you pointed out to us already (then tried to claim was the result of sloppy website design.)
Amazing.
You seem to hate reading, so I'll repeat what I lifted directly from the ad copy again:
"Your code for additional 60 days will be included in your emailed transaction confirmation."
Therefor, because the ad copy said it would, the final transaction confirmation e-mail will include a code for "additional 60 days" of game time.
How is this hard to understand? You buy the box for $10 off, it comes standard with 30 days game time, there is no way to separate that game time from the retail key you get with the box, plus they send you a code for an additional 60 days of game time. You get two keys: one for your retail copy of the game, one for the additional 60 days game time. You then have 90 days of game time because of the retail key + the code for 60 days of game time they send you in an e-mail.
Further it doesn't matter even the tiniest bit what most players assume, that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. That's just a red herring and a pointless aside on how you think the MMO industry works. Cryptic/Atari sells a game, STO, that always comes standard with 30 days game time included.
I sorry but since this offer was on their website: Atari.com, I doubt that any box key we given out. If by box key you mean product key, then there are different version of product keys no? So what makes you so sure Cryptic handing out the correct product keys out for the promotion? Unless you have a screenshot showing your purchase with a free month attached AND a voucher for 60 days on top of that, then you are still reading too far into the ad.
So I stand by my original opinion based off my own personal experiences on retail until I see proof otherwise.
I was on the Atari site during the sale and it very clearly said *30-day free trial included with purchase.
Underneath that they stated that they would be mailing a 60-day time code after purchase.
Every boxed copy comes with 30days they cannot separate that from the key. Atari was offering an ADDITIONAL 60 days with it. How you don't get that is just boggling my mind.
It's because of the promotion that I did not associate getting a free additional month as well as a 60 day voucher. Usually when sales promotions are in effect, exclusions are listed. Yes, it is standard practice for developers of MMOs to include a free month to go along with your purchase. But just because it's a traditional practice does not mean it's a right or a given.
Boggle all you want, but my gut tells it this was a case of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Atari was offering a promotion without making sure all the details were ironed out while Cryptic dropped the ball on their website by not providing promo product keys or making it clear to gamers that 60 days of free playtime does not mean you get a 60 day gamecard. Huge difference there.
Still, feigning ignorance in a court will only get you so far. "I swear, I had no idea that someone in marketing had posted this request! I also had no idea that our partner; Cryptic Studios had not sent out the promised keys, that in truth don't exist".
It just doesn't add up. Spinning a tale to your customers is one thing, but how can you actually explain this in a court?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
In retail prices are often misquoted all the time. Depending on the difference in price (a few dollars vs a few hundred dollars) it can be as simple as letting it go and honoring the blunder or going so far as to offer an disclaimer and apology for the price mix up. Both I have seen and experienced. And I see this as a case of something Atari is not willing to let slip through.
Call it fair or shady if you want, but it's all legal and has been practiced in retail since retail existed.
EXCEPT for the fact that the original response provided on Cryptic's site from their own people (which I read with my own eyes, before it was altered because someone posted the advertisement materials straight off the Atari website - and several other websites - proving the opposite) was that, despite what was on the parent company's site, the additional sixty days was - and I quote - "never part of the deal."
At that point, when you have made a sixty day time code part of a special deal and a major selling point, then yes, it is not only shady, but illegal, to renege on that when it is a large part of why customers have purchased a product. What makes it illegal is when you refuse to refund the customer's money because they did not receive the product that was advertised - which, by all accounts, is exactly what Atari did in this case. Atari had to come back and decide to honor that deal for those who purchased it before they pulled the deal (three days earlier than the promotional materials indicated - the deal was supposed to run through 3 March 2010) because failure to do so would have subjected them to several investigations from Attorneys General here in the US as well as several investigations from overseas agencies, not to mention a whole host of class-action litigations because the TOS and EULA do not cover refusing to provide advertised product.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
Good lord, maybe they would say what your saying if they were giving 90 days or only 30 more days. Those 30 days you get with your purchase is a guaranteed it isn't "free" you get it with your purchase. You are getting your : 30 days for the purchase of the product + 60 days extra for this promotion. God we are getting epicly trolled by this guy or he is just dense.
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
The box itself states that 30 days of gametime is included with purchase - so a promotion for the box and an "extra 60 days" equates to 90 days. But please, go on arguing against the obvious and otherwise making ridiculous statements apologizing for an something so obvious.
It amazes me the level of unawareness that some individuals display when it comes to PR for a product/company. The outside world's (specifically, the gamers') perspective of a company/game ties in strongly with initial and ongoing perceptions. Look at WAR - the game did well initially due to the fanbase Mythic and DAOC had built over the years. While I don't think it delivered up to its potential, even many "haters" out there grudgingly note that there has been a re-investment into the quality and content of the game. Whether or not that will be "too little, too late" remains to be seen. Cryptic made a solid name for themselves with the CoX games, and it payed off well in generating interest for their other games. Champions Online made a serious PR SNAFU by introducing a game-changing patch at the end of their headstart program. It begs the question, what do the development managers and business leads think about in these scenarios? Now, take a game that has been introduced to mediocre reviews and (was) relying almost completely on its IP laurels, and introduce a disasterous series of events that alienates both existing and prospective subscribers to the game. That isn't a balance issue, it is a direct hit to one's wallet. I can only hope those responsible have been sacked.
I never expected much out of Atari. Everything they release is a disappointment. They even managed to destroy the beloved Neverwinter Nights series.
Atari has done nothing but emit failure since it entered the console business, and does nothing but exude failure in the software business. Atari should have just gave up long ago. Maybe they could take that money they steal from people and clean up their mess of ET Games in New Mexico.
But I guess their current owner is too busy playing make believe "Swordquest" with his 18k gold jewel-encrusted, pure-silver bladed sword to care anymore.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Ya know I just happen to have one of those ET Games in my closet
I will point out one thing in their defense. They offered ( and lived up to their offer) of giving a full refund to everyone that pre-orded ( ie paid for it prior to the offical launch) the lifetime or yearly subsctiption. i know almost everyone ( that had a lifetime or yearly) in the house I belong to took them up on their offer last week and we all recieved our refunds on friday.
Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!
Comments
And for every constructive legitimate thread or post made about this issue and how it effects the community (Which has a HUGE effect on game play) there is of course a fanboi, content to stick his fingers in his ears and tell us we are all crazy all the while whistling the star trek theme.
I am take your power k thanks
All I got to say is epic fail. I am glad that I did not get involved with cryptic. Once bitten twice shy.
There is no way on this earth I would ever ever give cryptic any money. I hope they get sued out of existance by the folks who bough it then had the 60 days downgraded to 30.
Very shady that entire thing is.
Thanks for the links Nekolix! This is what Curs0r must be referring to:
Looking above note the wording in bold. In particular note how it's mentioned that you will get a double bonus. Not triple as others will have you believe. If it were truly 3 months 30 days w/purchase + 60 days in addition, then it would be included in the promo's description no?
Now look at the wording at the bottom: Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase.
Now please note that this isn't included with the body of the promo description, it's separate from it and follows the game description. Call it laziness on the part of Cryptic but it's part of the website that's normally there anyway. And I can see how some people would mistake this as meaning that ANOTHER 30 days is included making the promo a triple bonus, but it's not.
Now this screenshot shows what the purchasing screen looked like before (or after) the promo. Note that the same words:
Subscription Required- 30 Day trial included with purchase
is still in there and in the same spot. This tells me that the above screenshot showing the promo description was nothing more than a plug-in. And that the 30 Day trial included statement would be there with or without a promo involved.
It also goes to show me that players are reaching for an extra month even when the official promo description states that players will receive double the time they normally would and NOT triple. Make of it as you will but I stand by my original point.
Until I get a screenshot of a player that made the actual PURCHASE (which would include a breakdown of the services to be expected) I cannot think that a mere misunderstanding of a promo webpage holds enough weight to warrant a fraud lawsuit.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
What's weird is that those images prove the opposite of your take on the situation. Stay in school kids.
I went back through the advertisements. I think I can fix this. Many have said that they should receive 90 days additional game time. The advertisement said 60 days. Not 90. I hope this helps.
Have a nice day!
You get a boxed set and a 60 day key they have to honor it, the guy in the STO forum post I put in here earlier and said Atari contacted him and he did get 90 days.
Interesting how you completely ignore the parts that say "extra 60 days" and "additional 60 days." You're cherry picking to suit your own beliefs.
Directly from the ad copy: "Limited time double bonus! Buy Star Trek Online Collector's Edition before 9pm PST on Wed March 3rd and get FREE SHIPPING (* lower 48 states only) and extra 60 days free!"
"Your code for additional 60 days will be included in your emailed transaction confirmation."
I bolded, underlined and put it in italics as well as put it in bright yellow so that you won't miss it.
It clearly says you get a DOUBLE bonus not that it doubles your subscription time! It says double because
A) 10$ off of the purchase price
AND
that sir IS a double bonus.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showpost.php?p=2280782&postcount=493
I just saw this, apparently they haven't appeased everyone who ordered over the weekend yet.
As well as the free shipping, which could be considered another bonus.
It's hilarious that Ramonski7 has been proven wrong time after time, yet he refuses to concede.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
He was agreeing with you.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
He was agreeing with you.
I saw that after I posted, didn't have time to edit. I'm gunshy from being jumped by every troll on the STO forums. Sorry Mahuloq.
Hey wow, I can admit my mistakes! Neato maybe it'll catch on.
Let me spell this out for you.
The standard edition, all standard edition keys, without exception, come with 30 days trial time, subscription required. Once you enter your game serial you get that time.
The atari statement is 60 days bonus time to your subscription.
Both are credited to your subscription. This has been hashed on the STO forum already. I don't know why we have to discuss it here if you need it explained more clearly go there and read up please.
He was agreeing with you.
I saw that after I posted, didn't have time to edit. I'm gunshy from being jumped by every troll on the STO forums. Sorry Mahuloq.
Hey wow, I can admit my mistakes! Neato maybe it'll catch on.
You bring up an interesting point here. There does seem to be some communication error here on the part of readers (Proving that you really need to read everything thoroughly before you press the "Pay Now!" Button).
As I know all too well, misunderstanding can get you into a lot of trouble. In Cryptic/Atari's Defense, it would seem they are taking efforts to honor such a deal, even if such a deal never actually existed, which at least makes me think they are working with the customers, rather than against them.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Come Join us at www.globalequestria.com - Meet other fans of My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic!
What's weird is that those images prove the opposite of your take on the situation. Stay in school kids.
You're still not getting it. If they TRULY were giving away 90 free days it would be included in the promo description, no? It would say:
Limited time triple bonus! Buy Star Trek Online PC-DVD before 9pm PST on Wed
March 3rd and get $10 off and extra 90 days free! Your code for additional 90 days will
be included in your email transaction confirmation.
But then again many would take that to mean that they get 90 days + 30 free days with the purchase of the game.
Then we'd all be back at square one again. It was simple a misunderstanding of the way the description of the promo was taken by some people.
A more effective way would be to write it as such so even the average person would get it:
Limited time double bonus! Buy Star Trek Online PC-DVD before 9pm PST on Wed March 3rd and get $10 off and extra 60 days free! That means in addition to the standard 30 days that's included with your purchase, you will receive an extra 30 days of free play! Your code for additional 60 days (instead of 30 days) will be included in your email transaction confirmation.
But like I said that's just me. I didn't get the picture that I would be getting that much time for free. But then again it's the first time I've seen this type of promo used for a MMO. And I've been around for a while.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Some people will go to any length to deny reality, amazing. What could be more clear that $39 for the box and an extra 60 days of gametime? The box normally comes with 30 days gametime, both the std and CE version, therefore the "extra 60 days" is in addition to that 30 days for a total of 90 days; otherwise it is not extra it is just 60 days gametime.
Shall we argue whether the Sun is hot or not next?
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
Good lord, maybe they would say what your saying if they were giving 90 days or only 30 more days. Those 30 days you get with your purchase is a guaranteed it isn't "free" you get it with your purchase. You are getting your : 30 days for the purchase of the product + 60 days extra for this promotion. God we are getting epicly trolled by this guy or he is just dense.
I am seriously beginning to think this is just a bid for attention.
The whole situation is their own fault. All they had to do to prevent falling into this mess was make the game they were promising at the very beginning. Instead they made a piece of crap. Well, you reap what you sow.
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
Now the screw up with Atari/Cryptic is that most players that they are trying to entice are assuming that on top of the 30 days that they are getting for purchasing the game, that Atari will give them 60 more. But technically since there is no binding stipulation that dictates that they HAVE to given you 30 days in the first place, they can wordplay off that and say they ARE giving you 60 days. And in the technical sense they are giving you an extra 60 days on top of the zero you get when you make this promo purchase.
The only saving grace that players at this point have is the small description at the bottom of the purchasing screenshot that says players get a 30 day trial with their purchase. But that only goes as far as Atari wants it to. They can either put a disclaimer out to discredit that bit of information for this promo or simply say that a trial to unlock Klingons will be issued for 30 days. Either way it goes, so far no one has come up with a actual screenshot of what a final purchase screen included and without that we can speculate all night long about the situation.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
Now the screw up with Atari/Cryptic is that most players that they are trying to entice are assuming that on top of the 30 days that they are getting for purchasing the game, that Atari will give them 60 more. But technically since there is no binding stipulation that dictates that they HAVE to given you 30 days in the first place, they can wordplay off that and say they ARE giving you 60 days. And in the technical sense they are giving you an extra 60 days on top of the zero you get when you make this promo purchase.
The only saving grace that players at this point have is the small description at the bottom of the purchasing screenshot that says players get a 30 day trial with their purchase. But that only goes as far as Atari wants it to. They can either put a disclaimer out to discredit that bit of information for this promo or simply say that a trial to unlock Klingons will be issued for 30 days. Either way it goes, so far no one has come up with a actual screenshot of what a final purchase screen included and without that we can speculate all night long about the situation.
Except that there is an asterisk and a disclaimer saying the the box comes standard with 30 days game time as you pointed out to us already (then tried to claim was the result of sloppy website design.)
Amazing.
You seem to hate reading, so I'll repeat what I lifted directly from the ad copy again:
"Your code for additional 60 days will be included in your emailed transaction confirmation."
Source: This screenshot: s182.photobucket.com/albums/x202/NekoLLX/Cryptic/
Therefor, because the ad copy said it would, the final transaction confirmation e-mail will include a code for "additional 60 days" of game time.
How is this hard to understand? You buy the box for $10 off, it comes standard with 30 days game time, there is no way to separate that game time from the retail key you get with the box, plus they send you a code for an additional 60 days of game time. You get two keys: one for your retail copy of the game, one for the additional 60 days game time. You then have 90 days of game time because of the retail key + the code for 60 days of game time they send you in an e-mail.
Further it doesn't matter even the tiniest bit what most players assume, that has absolutely nothing to do with anything. That's just a red herring and a pointless aside on how you think the MMO industry works. Cryptic/Atari sells a game, STO, that always comes standard with 30 days game time included.
I sorry but since this offer was on their website: Atari.com, I doubt that any box key we given out. If by box key you mean product key, then there are different version of product keys no? So what makes you so sure Cryptic handing out the correct product keys out for the promotion? Unless you have a screenshot showing your purchase with a free month attached AND a voucher for 60 days on top of that, then you are still reading too far into the ad.
So I stand by my original opinion based off my own personal experiences on retail until I see proof otherwise.
I was on the Atari site during the sale and it very clearly said *30-day free trial included with purchase.
Underneath that they stated that they would be mailing a 60-day time code after purchase.
Every boxed copy comes with 30days they cannot separate that from the key. Atari was offering an ADDITIONAL 60 days with it. How you don't get that is just boggling my mind.
It's because of the promotion that I did not associate getting a free additional month as well as a 60 day voucher. Usually when sales promotions are in effect, exclusions are listed. Yes, it is standard practice for developers of MMOs to include a free month to go along with your purchase. But just because it's a traditional practice does not mean it's a right or a given.
Boggle all you want, but my gut tells it this was a case of the right hand not knowing what the left was doing. Atari was offering a promotion without making sure all the details were ironed out while Cryptic dropped the ball on their website by not providing promo product keys or making it clear to gamers that 60 days of free playtime does not mean you get a 60 day gamecard. Huge difference there.
Still, feigning ignorance in a court will only get you so far. "I swear, I had no idea that someone in marketing had posted this request! I also had no idea that our partner; Cryptic Studios had not sent out the promised keys, that in truth don't exist".
It just doesn't add up. Spinning a tale to your customers is one thing, but how can you actually explain this in a court?
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
In retail prices are often misquoted all the time. Depending on the difference in price (a few dollars vs a few hundred dollars) it can be as simple as letting it go and honoring the blunder or going so far as to offer an disclaimer and apology for the price mix up. Both I have seen and experienced. And I see this as a case of something Atari is not willing to let slip through.
Call it fair or shady if you want, but it's all legal and has been practiced in retail since retail existed.
EXCEPT for the fact that the original response provided on Cryptic's site from their own people (which I read with my own eyes, before it was altered because someone posted the advertisement materials straight off the Atari website - and several other websites - proving the opposite) was that, despite what was on the parent company's site, the additional sixty days was - and I quote - "never part of the deal."
At that point, when you have made a sixty day time code part of a special deal and a major selling point, then yes, it is not only shady, but illegal, to renege on that when it is a large part of why customers have purchased a product. What makes it illegal is when you refuse to refund the customer's money because they did not receive the product that was advertised - which, by all accounts, is exactly what Atari did in this case. Atari had to come back and decide to honor that deal for those who purchased it before they pulled the deal (three days earlier than the promotional materials indicated - the deal was supposed to run through 3 March 2010) because failure to do so would have subjected them to several investigations from Attorneys General here in the US as well as several investigations from overseas agencies, not to mention a whole host of class-action litigations because the TOS and EULA do not cover refusing to provide advertised product.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
Understand this, most players automatically assume that every MMO that is released has to give you 30 days worth of gametime and up until this point developers have catered to this practice. But in reality they don't have to give you jack.
The box itself states that 30 days of gametime is included with purchase - so a promotion for the box and an "extra 60 days" equates to 90 days. But please, go on arguing against the obvious and otherwise making ridiculous statements apologizing for an something so obvious.
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Achiever 60.00%, Socializer 53.00%, Killer 47.00%, Explorer 40.00%
Intel Core i7 Quad, Intel X58 SLi, 6G Corsair XMS DDR3, Intel X-25 SSD, 3 WD Velociraptor SATA SuperTrak SAS EX8650 Array, OCZ 1250W PS, GTX 295, xFi, 32" 1080p LCD
I never expected much out of Atari. Everything they release is a disappointment. They even managed to destroy the beloved Neverwinter Nights series.
Atari has done nothing but emit failure since it entered the console business, and does nothing but exude failure in the software business. Atari should have just gave up long ago. Maybe they could take that money they steal from people and clean up their mess of ET Games in New Mexico.
But I guess their current owner is too busy playing make believe "Swordquest" with his 18k gold jewel-encrusted, pure-silver bladed sword to care anymore.
~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!
Ya know I just happen to have one of those ET Games in my closet
I will point out one thing in their defense. They offered ( and lived up to their offer) of giving a full refund to everyone that pre-orded ( ie paid for it prior to the offical launch) the lifetime or yearly subsctiption. i know almost everyone ( that had a lifetime or yearly) in the house I belong to took them up on their offer last week and we all recieved our refunds on friday.
Magic is impressive, but now Minsc leads! Swords for everyone!