If they can make the combat lagg free and a bit faster I will be sold. As it stands now the combat feels very slow and very laggy. Hope they sort it as we need more games like this to break the current mmo mold.
Have you heard of Xsyon?
Yes, waiting for some game play vids and more solid info.
LOL that is the sorriest bit of housing I've seen in a while.
Shadowbane was far more advanced, so is Darkfall, and both offered much more depth in what you could do. The doors don't even have an animation to open or close.
First of all, it's in beta. Secondly, if you like Shadowbane so much why don't you play it? Oh wait, it folded didn't it? What a shame, you mean all those great door animations couldn't keep it going?
This isn't a question of "if you like Shadowbane so much why don't you play it", it's a matter of MO having a "killer feature" that will keep people playing despite the horrible bugs, crashes, lag, broken features, etc.
There's NOTHING. See, at least in EVE they did something unique and had the nice ability to come in at a time where MMOs weren't huge on the landscape. This is 2010. There a dime a dozen MMOs and most of them actually work properly, even if they aren't a lot of fun. What makes MO stand out from them? NOTHING. The combat sucks. The house building is worse than a game that was out 7 years ago. There's no content. The AI still sucks. Lots of rubberbanding, crashing, and lag. And to boot, their entire design philosophy is basically to take multiple games that worked on their own, take the best parts and think that they created a hit game by implementing all those ideas and doing it BADLY to boot.
And that "it's beta" comment... it's a joke at this point. Open beta means that everything in the game has been thoroughly tested, and all the systems work properly and as intended. Granted there will still be unforseen bugs, and it's a business decision to acutally "launch", but a proper development cycle keeps those bugs to a minimum. And here they are in open beta, introducing massive new features and content that is completely unimpressive and continues to break existing systems. SV is an abject failure of a developer, and gives any other developer out there a bad name. People like this should not be programming anything, they should stick to spending their dad's money on overpriced cars and things like that. When people think that money will get them the success they desire, they wind up like Hulk Hogan's kid who thought he was a race car driver and wound up basically killing a guy and every race he ran he sucked. Some people just aren't cut out to do certain jobs, and in this case SV isn't cut out to make a game like pong, much less MO.
I think we both know that's not true. A few minutes on the forums or on IRC shows even the biggest supporters talking about the terrible lag.
And as for lots of people online... who knows? I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfall.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Again, you believe at face value what Henrik and Co say.
I don't.
You state what they say as fact. I state it as biased opinion. And further, when I'm making my point, I usually like to say "I think" to denote what my opinion is, so you know it's an opinion.
If you continue to believe Henrik and Co that's fine -- but with their vested interests in the game and its success, you will never hear a negative thing from that team because that's just stupid. But then again, the MO forums are moderated heavily so that's why we sit on here to chat, without any problem, because people are actually allowed to have an alternate viewpoint without being berated by the fans on the MO forums. And all this, coming from the same person who made personal attacks against me on the MO forums too. Please, don't start the high horse because you should really look at your own past before you do that.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Again, you believe at face value what Henrik and Co say.
LOL that is the sorriest bit of housing I've seen in a while.
Shadowbane was far more advanced, so is Darkfall, and both offered much more depth in what you could do. The doors don't even have an animation to open or close.
First of all, it's in beta. Secondly, if you like Shadowbane so much why don't you play it? Oh wait, it folded didn't it? What a shame, you mean all those great door animations couldn't keep it going?
This isn't a question of "if you like Shadowbane so much why don't you play it", it's a matter of MO having a "killer feature" that will keep people playing despite the horrible bugs, crashes, lag, broken features, etc.
There's NOTHING. See, at least in EVE they did something unique and had the nice ability to come in at a time where MMOs weren't huge on the landscape. This is 2010. There a dime a dozen MMOs and most of them actually work properly, even if they aren't a lot of fun. What makes MO stand out from them? NOTHING. The combat sucks. The house building is worse than a game that was out 7 years ago. There's no content. The AI still sucks. Lots of rubberbanding, crashing, and lag. And to boot, their entire design philosophy is basically to take multiple games that worked on their own, take the best parts and think that they created a hit game by implementing all those ideas and doing it BADLY to boot.
And that "it's beta" comment... it's a joke at this point. Open beta means that everything in the game has been thoroughly tested, and all the systems work properly and as intended. Granted there will still be unforseen bugs, and it's a business decision to acutally "launch", but a proper development cycle keeps those bugs to a minimum. And here they are in open beta, introducing massive new features and content that is completely unimpressive and continues to break existing systems. SV is an abject failure of a developer, and gives any other developer out there a bad name. People like this should not be programming anything, they should stick to spending their dad's money on overpriced cars and things like that. When people think that money will get them the success they desire, they wind up like Hulk Hogan's kid who thought he was a race car driver and wound up basically killing a guy and every race he ran he sucked. Some people just aren't cut out to do certain jobs, and in this case SV isn't cut out to make a game like pong, much less MO.
I see you are still crusading, i really feel sorry for you i really am, i'm glad i dont have such a pathetic life that my soul purpose is to troll a game forums for months on end.
It's entertainment for me. I am at work when I post, and at work only. When I'm home I don't care about this board or anything else related. Look at the timestamps on my posts. There may be some that are later, but I do work late hours on occasion too.
I see you are still crusading, i really feel sorry for you i really am, i'm glad i dont have such a pathetic life that my soul purpose is to troll a game forums for months on end.
It's entertainment for me. I am at work when I post, and at work only. When I'm home I don't care about this board or anything else related. Look at the timestamps on my posts. There may be some that are later, but I do work late hours on occasion too.
And that "it's beta" comment... it's a joke at this point.
I can clear this confusion up right now. MO is not an open Beta. It is, in fact, an open Alpha. And I don't have a problem with that as long as the devs don't attempt to release the game in its current state.
It's a new style of development for indie developers. Inviting potential customers at the Alpha stage of game development. Building a solid fanbase that are also your primary alpha/beta testers. In theory it should speed up the development process and allow for very early feedback from your player base so that the devs can properly set priorities for feature development, etc.
Yeah, all great in theory. But can StarVault pull it off?
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Dev's "personally" say anything to protect themselves and keep you a paying customer.
Take everything they say and throw it away until you actually see it in game. Until then you can just assume is doesn't exist beyond imagination.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Dev's "personally" say anything to protect themselves and keep you a paying customer.
Take everything they say and throw it away until you actually see it in game. Until then you can just assume is doesn't exist beyond imagination.
It ain't rocket sience to go in to the servers and walk around to see big amount of new names and players running everywhere, also you can see their stocks doing steady win.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Dev's "personally" say anything to protect themselves and keep you a paying customer.
Take everything they say and throw it away until you actually see it in game. Until then you can just assume is doesn't exist beyond imagination.
It ain't rocket sience to go in to the servers and walk around to see big amount of new names and players running everywhere, also you can see their stocks doing steady win.
Yeah was going to say the same thing.
I believe no one. I have learned to take Henrik´s words with grain of satl and i know him being a CEO of a small companie he have to usually exagerate some things in order to keep the share holders happy.
HOWEVER I do play play the game ( when was the last time you logged in Herc? Oh wait you are banned since September last year lol) and what I see is towns pakced with people and a lot of guys running arround the world. MUCH MORE than before!
[Sorry for snipping it, was too long to quote in toto.]
See, you work on the premise that "it's going to come", and I work on the premise that what you see is what you get. Right now, houses and any other buildable structure are NOT customizable at ALL. You can't build a custom structure either -- you can only build static meshes that plop down on certain locations. Programatically it's not exactly a miracle to deliver that. However, to deliver the customizable housing, the ability to decorate and have a custom floorplan, make it more useful than just a static mesh for your 'e-peen' well... that takes a LOT more development skill because you have to basically create an algorithm and a UI to deliver such a task.
That's why MO is largely a simple, mindless game with no depth whatsoever. There aren't any deep systems other than crafting, but in a logical (code) sense, it's also not that impressive. Again... it's been apparent for some time that SV lacks the talent (and I think it's more managerial than anything else) to deliver what Henrik wants. It's a great example of why gamers don't necessarily make good developers. And that's why the miracle patch that they "messed up" hasn't had ONE WORD posted about it yet -- because they are running around trying to fix things they have no idea how to even properly diagnose. It's just entertaining and sad.
Au contraire, I don't have any particular premise here. As I stated on another thread, I have next to no personal attachement to the game other than mild frustration from non-functional patcher-slash-launcher. My argument's sole purpose was to state that although there is no customisable housing nor interior design UI it does not, as such, render this system the worst there has existed on an MMO for a long time as you suggested in your original posting. Certainly we can argue whether this system is an accomplishment of any sort but I do feel that a place for that discussion is elsewhere than on this particular thread.
Moreover, despite all the drama this game has caused, one can hope nothing but the best for all that give this genre a serious go. Will they fail? It is very much possible if they can't keep their costs at minimum as there hardly will be too many players for the game for a number of reasons. When it comes to talent, I think that, in a sense, they are "creating" talent as we speak by trying to create a game of their dreams. Will they have enough time to develop something worthwhile with their gradually growing expertise? Who knows.
[Sorry for snipping it, was too long to quote in toto.]
See, you work on the premise that "it's going to come", and I work on the premise that what you see is what you get. Right now, houses and any other buildable structure are NOT customizable at ALL. You can't build a custom structure either -- you can only build static meshes that plop down on certain locations. Programatically it's not exactly a miracle to deliver that. However, to deliver the customizable housing, the ability to decorate and have a custom floorplan, make it more useful than just a static mesh for your 'e-peen' well... that takes a LOT more development skill because you have to basically create an algorithm and a UI to deliver such a task.
That's why MO is largely a simple, mindless game with no depth whatsoever. There aren't any deep systems other than crafting, but in a logical (code) sense, it's also not that impressive. Again... it's been apparent for some time that SV lacks the talent (and I think it's more managerial than anything else) to deliver what Henrik wants. It's a great example of why gamers don't necessarily make good developers. And that's why the miracle patch that they "messed up" hasn't had ONE WORD posted about it yet -- because they are running around trying to fix things they have no idea how to even properly diagnose. It's just entertaining and sad.
Au contraire, I don't have any particular premise here. As I stated on another thread, I have next to no personal attachement to the game other than mild frustration from non-functional patcher-slash-launcher. My argument's sole purpose was to state that although there is no customisable housing nor interior design UI it does not, as such, render this system the worst there has existed on an MMO for a long time as you suggested in your original posting. Certainly we can argue whether this system is an accomplishment of any sort but I do feel that a place for that discussion is elsewhere than on this particular thread.
Moreover, despite all the drama this game has caused, one can hope nothing but the best for all that give this genre a serious go. Will they fail? It is very much possible if they can't keep their costs at minimum as there hardly will be too many players for the game for a number of reasons. When it comes to talent, I think that, in a sense, they are "creating" talent as we speak by trying to create a game of their dreams. Will they have enough time to develop something worthwhile with their gradually growing expertise? Who knows.
I will agree with you on the housing -- it's just the worst implementation I've seen in some time, and given that games much older have much better implementations, it says a lot about the quality of the game.
That said, as for "hoping for the best for the genre"... this is a fallacious argument. You cannot promote developers who clearly have no idea what they are doing, building a piece of trash with no underlying design, and then hope it's going to bolster the genre. If anything, it makes the players of the genre look like easy suckers. And if you accept the garbage that SV is putting out to "support the genre" all you're doing it sending the message out that you're SO desperate for a game like MO, that you'll basically buy anything like it. And you'll see the horrible developers come forward in spades with all kinds of new ideas and games that are half baked, all because they know that this genre will accept them.
When you are a discerning customer, and state your opinion about what you want, and what you will accept, and yes -- bolster the idea that you want a game that's a sandbox PvP game -- other developers read about it. But they also read about customers saying "this is a piece of crap" and then knowing they can't pass that garbage along again, so they have to do it right. EVE comparisons are over folks -- that timeframe and lack of competition has now passed and won't come back. And by the time a good sandbox PvP game comes out, people will be so frustrated with the crap they kept trying out, they won't know a GOOD game because they will think that it's yet another piece of crap.
I dare to disagree with you once more, HerculesSAS. I don't think that failures will be counter-productive for the genre as a whole. If you in all honesty think that a developer launches a project and has as their only goal scamming money from 10,000 odd customers, then, indeed, we are doomed and should not support anything but AAA developers. I think that Darkfall's case is illustrative of this all. At the moment, many do think that Darkfall has turned the page and has managed to summon forth part of what they promised on their webpage pre-launch. Still, saying that at around the time of launch they had an "underlying design" is equally fallacious as my optimism.
Personally I'd say that those in position to decide the future trends of MMOG-genre as a whole are paying attention to most launches and based on the impact a game has on the gaming community they will evaluate its success or failure. I strongly do doubt that anyone would like to imitate what Starvault and Aventurine have shown. Or from the bigger names Funcom, Mythic and to an extent NCSoft. That's why you see every game compared to World of Warcraft if they strive for success but we can fairly well say that there are great things in, e.g., Age of Conan, Warhammer and Aion. Their merits aren't neglected by the fact that their developers lost their "design" for a while. Ideas are then replicated more or less precisly on other titles to come until someone manages to combine them in a truely satisfying fashion. I'd like to see Mortal Online as a single stop on this attempt and regardless of its success as a whole, some of its features may well live on and develop into canon of MMOGs.
I dare to disagree with you once more, HerculesSAS. I don't think that failures will be counter-productive for the genre as a whole. If you in all honesty think that a developer launches a project and has as their only goal scamming money from 10,000 odd customers, then, indeed, we are doomed and should not support anything but AAA developers. I think that Darkfall's case is illustrative of this all. At the moment, many do think that Darkfall has turned the page and has managed to summon forth part of what they promised on their webpage pre-launch. Still, saying that at around the time of launch they had an "underlying design" is equally fallacious as my optimism.
Personally I'd say that those in position to decide the future trends of MMOG-genre as a whole are paying attention to most launches and based on the impact a game has on the gaming community they will evaluate its success or failure. I strongly do doubt that anyone would like to imitate what Starvault and Aventurine have shown. Or from the bigger names Funcom, Mythic and to an extent NCSoft. That's why you see every game compared to World of Warcraft if they strive for success but we can fairly well say that there are great things in, e.g., Age of Conan, Warhammer and Aion. Their merits aren't neglected by the fact that their developers lost their "design" for a while. Ideas are then replicated more or less precisly on other titles to come until someone manages to combine them in a truely satisfying fashion. I'd like to see Mortal Online as a single stop on this attempt and regardless of its success as a whole, some of its features may well live on and develop into canon of MMOGs.
I think you misread me a bit -- I don't think SV is out to scam anybody. I really don't. That may be surprising to you, and probably a lot of others. I think they WANT to make a successful game. They simply don't have the experience, management, or talent to do it.
As for Darkfall's comparison -- it's moot. When DF came out, the game was complete, even in closed beta. And the launch was botched for sure -- but the game itself was VERY playable. Bugs, sure.. but you could run around, kill people, use all the magic spells, do melee combat, and even seige to a certain extent. It wasn't much fun for me, but for others it was.
MO is not even PLAYABLE. And it's in open beta right now. Most of the features are broken, or not finished. The ones that are finished are underwhelming, and it pales in comparison in EVERY WAY to Darkfall. And I don't even LIKE Darkfall.
As for the scammers well... that's a consequence of MO's launch. It's not SV's intention to scam, but then most people that start like SV is, a house full of inexperienced modders -- just don't have the capability to make a playable game. At least EVE had programmers that shipped other products. DF got a cash injection and built their own game engine from the ground up. Do you want to be supporting the idea that any guy off the street should try to make an MMO? Or do you value some experience? Do you value SOME quality? Because if you don't, and you accept garbage, you can be sure that more garbage will be presented to you -- and you'll wait even longer for a good game because of all the crap you see.
As for the scammers well... that's a consequence of MO's launch. It's not SV's intention to scam, but then most people that start like SV is, a house full of inexperienced modders -- just don't have the capability to make a playable game. At least EVE had programmers that shipped other products. DF got a cash injection and built their own game engine from the ground up. Do you want to be supporting the idea that any guy off the street should try to make an MMO? Or do you value some experience? Do you value SOME quality? Because if you don't, and you accept garbage, you can be sure that more garbage will be presented to you -- and you'll wait even longer for a good game because of all the crap you see.
I think that this is somewhat de-railing the discussion off from palisades and keeps, therefore this will be last of my contribution for this particular thread. But, back to topic quoted above. For me it seems that either you are unintentionally reading something that is not present at my posts or you are repeating a mantra you learned a while back. On every response you change your argument in a fashion that underlines a single word and revolves around it and make it seem like a coherent reply. On your latest one, partly quoted above, this word is "scam". Had it anything to do with my reply upon which I pondered whether also those who fail to make a lasting impact can still alter the future of the genre? No.
Nevertheless, I think that you do have an interesting argument on stating that a set amount of prior experience should be required from a team trying to make an MMOG. Yet, as you yourself state, only "most" endeavours starting like Mortal Online fail. There is a chance for succesfully pulling it through -- making an impact. For me, getting enough funding, be it of whatever source, to both license a game engine and even approach a release -- be it staggering or not -- is the very anti-thesis of failure. Hence, there is not particularily high risk of us seeing "guy off the street" developing MMOGs.
The sad thing about quality is its very subjective nature; many argue that Age of Conan's gaming experience past level-20 was of low quality. Using the same metrics on Mortal Online and we are likely to say that the entire game is of low quality, which likely is your argument. Similarily someone can say that Molten Core is a bad raid instance but comparing it to other games it shines as a beacon of light in the sea of innovation. Therefore, your standards of quality aren't absolute even if majority of others would agree (as do I, to an extent). As such, and getting us back to topic, the keeps and palisades of Mortal Online aren't likely the best there has ever existed nor the most innovative one but they can and will function as a mark of quality for those who do like from the game from their very own subjective standards. Whether you like from this or not is your personal choice but extrapolating your personal standards of quality over to the team of developers and people enjoying their creation is faulty logics.
I think that this is somewhat de-railing the discussion off from palisades and keeps, therefore this will be last of my contribution for this particular thread. But, back to topic quoted above. For me it seems that either you are unintentionally reading something that is not present at my posts or you are repeating a mantra you learned a while back. On every response you change your argument in a fashion that underlines a single word and revolves around it and make it seem like a coherent reply. On your latest one, partly quoted above, this word is "scam". Had it anything to do with my reply upon which I pondered whether alNevertheless, I think that you do have an interesting argument on stating that a set amount of prior experience should be required from a team trying to make an MMOG. Yet, as you yourself state, only "most" endeavours starting like Mortal Online fail. There is a chance for succesfully pulling it through -- making an impact. For me, getting enough funding, be it of whatever source, to both license a game engine and even approach a release -- be it staggering or not -- is the very anti-thesis of failure. Hence, there is not particularily high risk of us seeing "guy off the street" developing MMOGs.
Just to this point...
So you think for your daddy to give you money somehow makes you a success? Where do you think that "funding" came from? Henrik's dad had cash, he thought he could make a game because he loved games so much, and thus MO was born. I find a project MORE prone to failure if you don't have to PROVE the need for funding. There was no need for a business plan, no need for customer retention plans, no need for long term strategies, etc -- because it's all from dear old dad. And obviously now you see the folly in it, because there isn't an obvious business plan, there isn't a customer retention plan, and the architecture of the entire game is problematic.
There's always a risk of the "guy off the street" selling you a scam. Made possible by MO and games like it, where scam artists see the guilliability of the sandbox MMO fans, and just play to that. See the thing is, if it's a scam -- they don't HAVE to make a game... they just have to promise the world and deliver nothing. And they will get that idea by SV trying to make a game they have no skill to create, and reinforce their idea on our own acceptance of their failures.
Comments
Have you heard of Xsyon?
Yes, waiting for some game play vids and more solid info.
First of all, it's in beta. Secondly, if you like Shadowbane so much why don't you play it? Oh wait, it folded didn't it? What a shame, you mean all those great door animations couldn't keep it going?
This isn't a question of "if you like Shadowbane so much why don't you play it", it's a matter of MO having a "killer feature" that will keep people playing despite the horrible bugs, crashes, lag, broken features, etc.
There's NOTHING. See, at least in EVE they did something unique and had the nice ability to come in at a time where MMOs weren't huge on the landscape. This is 2010. There a dime a dozen MMOs and most of them actually work properly, even if they aren't a lot of fun. What makes MO stand out from them? NOTHING. The combat sucks. The house building is worse than a game that was out 7 years ago. There's no content. The AI still sucks. Lots of rubberbanding, crashing, and lag. And to boot, their entire design philosophy is basically to take multiple games that worked on their own, take the best parts and think that they created a hit game by implementing all those ideas and doing it BADLY to boot.
And that "it's beta" comment... it's a joke at this point. Open beta means that everything in the game has been thoroughly tested, and all the systems work properly and as intended. Granted there will still be unforseen bugs, and it's a business decision to acutally "launch", but a proper development cycle keeps those bugs to a minimum. And here they are in open beta, introducing massive new features and content that is completely unimpressive and continues to break existing systems. SV is an abject failure of a developer, and gives any other developer out there a bad name. People like this should not be programming anything, they should stick to spending their dad's money on overpriced cars and things like that. When people think that money will get them the success they desire, they wind up like Hulk Hogan's kid who thought he was a race car driver and wound up basically killing a guy and every race he ran he sucked. Some people just aren't cut out to do certain jobs, and in this case SV isn't cut out to make a game like pong, much less MO.
lots of ppl online and lagg is gone
I think we both know that's not true. A few minutes on the forums or on IRC shows even the biggest supporters talking about the terrible lag.
And as for lots of people online... who knows? I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfall.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
You can burn me, but i wont die.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Again, you believe at face value what Henrik and Co say.
I don't.
You state what they say as fact. I state it as biased opinion. And further, when I'm making my point, I usually like to say "I think" to denote what my opinion is, so you know it's an opinion.
If you continue to believe Henrik and Co that's fine -- but with their vested interests in the game and its success, you will never hear a negative thing from that team because that's just stupid. But then again, the MO forums are moderated heavily so that's why we sit on here to chat, without any problem, because people are actually allowed to have an alternate viewpoint without being berated by the fans on the MO forums. And all this, coming from the same person who made personal attacks against me on the MO forums too. Please, don't start the high horse because you should really look at your own past before you do that.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Again, you believe at face value what Henrik and Co say.
I don't.
Yeah. I see, there went base of your posts, Doh.
You can burn me, but i wont die.
First of all, it's in beta. Secondly, if you like Shadowbane so much why don't you play it? Oh wait, it folded didn't it? What a shame, you mean all those great door animations couldn't keep it going?
This isn't a question of "if you like Shadowbane so much why don't you play it", it's a matter of MO having a "killer feature" that will keep people playing despite the horrible bugs, crashes, lag, broken features, etc.
There's NOTHING. See, at least in EVE they did something unique and had the nice ability to come in at a time where MMOs weren't huge on the landscape. This is 2010. There a dime a dozen MMOs and most of them actually work properly, even if they aren't a lot of fun. What makes MO stand out from them? NOTHING. The combat sucks. The house building is worse than a game that was out 7 years ago. There's no content. The AI still sucks. Lots of rubberbanding, crashing, and lag. And to boot, their entire design philosophy is basically to take multiple games that worked on their own, take the best parts and think that they created a hit game by implementing all those ideas and doing it BADLY to boot.
And that "it's beta" comment... it's a joke at this point. Open beta means that everything in the game has been thoroughly tested, and all the systems work properly and as intended. Granted there will still be unforseen bugs, and it's a business decision to acutally "launch", but a proper development cycle keeps those bugs to a minimum. And here they are in open beta, introducing massive new features and content that is completely unimpressive and continues to break existing systems. SV is an abject failure of a developer, and gives any other developer out there a bad name. People like this should not be programming anything, they should stick to spending their dad's money on overpriced cars and things like that. When people think that money will get them the success they desire, they wind up like Hulk Hogan's kid who thought he was a race car driver and wound up basically killing a guy and every race he ran he sucked. Some people just aren't cut out to do certain jobs, and in this case SV isn't cut out to make a game like pong, much less MO.
[Mod Edit]
+1
It's entertainment for me. I am at work when I post, and at work only. When I'm home I don't care about this board or anything else related. Look at the timestamps on my posts. There may be some that are later, but I do work late hours on occasion too.
It's entertainment for me. I am at work when I post, and at work only. When I'm home I don't care about this board or anything else related. Look at the timestamps on my posts. There may be some that are later, but I do work late hours on occasion too.
Lol Hercules, I'm speechless.
You can burn me, but i wont die.
I can clear this confusion up right now. MO is not an open Beta. It is, in fact, an open Alpha. And I don't have a problem with that as long as the devs don't attempt to release the game in its current state.
It's a new style of development for indie developers. Inviting potential customers at the Alpha stage of game development. Building a solid fanbase that are also your primary alpha/beta testers. In theory it should speed up the development process and allow for very early feedback from your player base so that the devs can properly set priorities for feature development, etc.
Yeah, all great in theory. But can StarVault pull it off?
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Dev's "personally" say anything to protect themselves and keep you a paying customer.
Take everything they say and throw it away until you actually see it in game. Until then you can just assume is doesn't exist beyond imagination.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Dev's "personally" say anything to protect themselves and keep you a paying customer.
Take everything they say and throw it away until you actually see it in game. Until then you can just assume is doesn't exist beyond imagination.
It ain't rocket sience to go in to the servers and walk around to see big amount of new names and players running everywhere, also you can see their stocks doing steady win.
You can burn me, but i wont die.
I think it's back to closed beta numbers, because everybody already has seen MO for the abject failure it is, and passed. Probably subbed to Darkfalll.
Hercules... Thats just an awful way to use your time, by talking nonsense. Devs personally have said that the OB has brought up big amount of new customers and the servers really are busy all the time.
I just don't get you.
Dev's "personally" say anything to protect themselves and keep you a paying customer.
Take everything they say and throw it away until you actually see it in game. Until then you can just assume is doesn't exist beyond imagination.
It ain't rocket sience to go in to the servers and walk around to see big amount of new names and players running everywhere, also you can see their stocks doing steady win.
Yeah was going to say the same thing.
I believe no one. I have learned to take Henrik´s words with grain of satl and i know him being a CEO of a small companie he have to usually exagerate some things in order to keep the share holders happy.
HOWEVER I do play play the game ( when was the last time you logged in Herc? Oh wait you are banned since September last year lol) and what I see is towns pakced with people and a lot of guys running arround the world. MUCH MORE than before!
Au contraire, I don't have any particular premise here. As I stated on another thread, I have next to no personal attachement to the game other than mild frustration from non-functional patcher-slash-launcher. My argument's sole purpose was to state that although there is no customisable housing nor interior design UI it does not, as such, render this system the worst there has existed on an MMO for a long time as you suggested in your original posting. Certainly we can argue whether this system is an accomplishment of any sort but I do feel that a place for that discussion is elsewhere than on this particular thread.
Moreover, despite all the drama this game has caused, one can hope nothing but the best for all that give this genre a serious go. Will they fail? It is very much possible if they can't keep their costs at minimum as there hardly will be too many players for the game for a number of reasons. When it comes to talent, I think that, in a sense, they are "creating" talent as we speak by trying to create a game of their dreams. Will they have enough time to develop something worthwhile with their gradually growing expertise? Who knows.
Au contraire, I don't have any particular premise here. As I stated on another thread, I have next to no personal attachement to the game other than mild frustration from non-functional patcher-slash-launcher. My argument's sole purpose was to state that although there is no customisable housing nor interior design UI it does not, as such, render this system the worst there has existed on an MMO for a long time as you suggested in your original posting. Certainly we can argue whether this system is an accomplishment of any sort but I do feel that a place for that discussion is elsewhere than on this particular thread.
Moreover, despite all the drama this game has caused, one can hope nothing but the best for all that give this genre a serious go. Will they fail? It is very much possible if they can't keep their costs at minimum as there hardly will be too many players for the game for a number of reasons. When it comes to talent, I think that, in a sense, they are "creating" talent as we speak by trying to create a game of their dreams. Will they have enough time to develop something worthwhile with their gradually growing expertise? Who knows.
I will agree with you on the housing -- it's just the worst implementation I've seen in some time, and given that games much older have much better implementations, it says a lot about the quality of the game.
That said, as for "hoping for the best for the genre"... this is a fallacious argument. You cannot promote developers who clearly have no idea what they are doing, building a piece of trash with no underlying design, and then hope it's going to bolster the genre. If anything, it makes the players of the genre look like easy suckers. And if you accept the garbage that SV is putting out to "support the genre" all you're doing it sending the message out that you're SO desperate for a game like MO, that you'll basically buy anything like it. And you'll see the horrible developers come forward in spades with all kinds of new ideas and games that are half baked, all because they know that this genre will accept them.
When you are a discerning customer, and state your opinion about what you want, and what you will accept, and yes -- bolster the idea that you want a game that's a sandbox PvP game -- other developers read about it. But they also read about customers saying "this is a piece of crap" and then knowing they can't pass that garbage along again, so they have to do it right. EVE comparisons are over folks -- that timeframe and lack of competition has now passed and won't come back. And by the time a good sandbox PvP game comes out, people will be so frustrated with the crap they kept trying out, they won't know a GOOD game because they will think that it's yet another piece of crap.
Just like MO.
I dare to disagree with you once more, HerculesSAS. I don't think that failures will be counter-productive for the genre as a whole. If you in all honesty think that a developer launches a project and has as their only goal scamming money from 10,000 odd customers, then, indeed, we are doomed and should not support anything but AAA developers. I think that Darkfall's case is illustrative of this all. At the moment, many do think that Darkfall has turned the page and has managed to summon forth part of what they promised on their webpage pre-launch. Still, saying that at around the time of launch they had an "underlying design" is equally fallacious as my optimism.
Personally I'd say that those in position to decide the future trends of MMOG-genre as a whole are paying attention to most launches and based on the impact a game has on the gaming community they will evaluate its success or failure. I strongly do doubt that anyone would like to imitate what Starvault and Aventurine have shown. Or from the bigger names Funcom, Mythic and to an extent NCSoft. That's why you see every game compared to World of Warcraft if they strive for success but we can fairly well say that there are great things in, e.g., Age of Conan, Warhammer and Aion. Their merits aren't neglected by the fact that their developers lost their "design" for a while. Ideas are then replicated more or less precisly on other titles to come until someone manages to combine them in a truely satisfying fashion. I'd like to see Mortal Online as a single stop on this attempt and regardless of its success as a whole, some of its features may well live on and develop into canon of MMOGs.
I think you misread me a bit -- I don't think SV is out to scam anybody. I really don't. That may be surprising to you, and probably a lot of others. I think they WANT to make a successful game. They simply don't have the experience, management, or talent to do it.
As for Darkfall's comparison -- it's moot. When DF came out, the game was complete, even in closed beta. And the launch was botched for sure -- but the game itself was VERY playable. Bugs, sure.. but you could run around, kill people, use all the magic spells, do melee combat, and even seige to a certain extent. It wasn't much fun for me, but for others it was.
MO is not even PLAYABLE. And it's in open beta right now. Most of the features are broken, or not finished. The ones that are finished are underwhelming, and it pales in comparison in EVERY WAY to Darkfall. And I don't even LIKE Darkfall.
As for the scammers well... that's a consequence of MO's launch. It's not SV's intention to scam, but then most people that start like SV is, a house full of inexperienced modders -- just don't have the capability to make a playable game. At least EVE had programmers that shipped other products. DF got a cash injection and built their own game engine from the ground up. Do you want to be supporting the idea that any guy off the street should try to make an MMO? Or do you value some experience? Do you value SOME quality? Because if you don't, and you accept garbage, you can be sure that more garbage will be presented to you -- and you'll wait even longer for a good game because of all the crap you see.
I think that this is somewhat de-railing the discussion off from palisades and keeps, therefore this will be last of my contribution for this particular thread. But, back to topic quoted above. For me it seems that either you are unintentionally reading something that is not present at my posts or you are repeating a mantra you learned a while back. On every response you change your argument in a fashion that underlines a single word and revolves around it and make it seem like a coherent reply. On your latest one, partly quoted above, this word is "scam". Had it anything to do with my reply upon which I pondered whether also those who fail to make a lasting impact can still alter the future of the genre? No.
Nevertheless, I think that you do have an interesting argument on stating that a set amount of prior experience should be required from a team trying to make an MMOG. Yet, as you yourself state, only "most" endeavours starting like Mortal Online fail. There is a chance for succesfully pulling it through -- making an impact. For me, getting enough funding, be it of whatever source, to both license a game engine and even approach a release -- be it staggering or not -- is the very anti-thesis of failure. Hence, there is not particularily high risk of us seeing "guy off the street" developing MMOGs.
The sad thing about quality is its very subjective nature; many argue that Age of Conan's gaming experience past level-20 was of low quality. Using the same metrics on Mortal Online and we are likely to say that the entire game is of low quality, which likely is your argument. Similarily someone can say that Molten Core is a bad raid instance but comparing it to other games it shines as a beacon of light in the sea of innovation. Therefore, your standards of quality aren't absolute even if majority of others would agree (as do I, to an extent). As such, and getting us back to topic, the keeps and palisades of Mortal Online aren't likely the best there has ever existed nor the most innovative one but they can and will function as a mark of quality for those who do like from the game from their very own subjective standards. Whether you like from this or not is your personal choice but extrapolating your personal standards of quality over to the team of developers and people enjoying their creation is faulty logics.
Just to this point...
So you think for your daddy to give you money somehow makes you a success? Where do you think that "funding" came from? Henrik's dad had cash, he thought he could make a game because he loved games so much, and thus MO was born. I find a project MORE prone to failure if you don't have to PROVE the need for funding. There was no need for a business plan, no need for customer retention plans, no need for long term strategies, etc -- because it's all from dear old dad. And obviously now you see the folly in it, because there isn't an obvious business plan, there isn't a customer retention plan, and the architecture of the entire game is problematic.
There's always a risk of the "guy off the street" selling you a scam. Made possible by MO and games like it, where scam artists see the guilliability of the sandbox MMO fans, and just play to that. See the thing is, if it's a scam -- they don't HAVE to make a game... they just have to promise the world and deliver nothing. And they will get that idea by SV trying to make a game they have no skill to create, and reinforce their idea on our own acceptance of their failures.