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A TLDR post about why I quit, and why STO can't satisfy a veteran gamer
blackboxxD
Member Posts: 11
I played through open beta, and all together had the following characters and levels:
Klingon faction, Alien race, BG5 - science
Klingon faction, Alien race, Captain 4 - science
Klingon faction, Alien race, commander 7 - tactical
Federation faction, human, RA5 - science
I've seen everything this game has to offer.
PVE
Space: Mind-numbingly repetitive. Too easy. Uncreative. Painfully stupid AI. "Exploration" consists of precisely 3 types of missions: 1) Run around scanning stuff in space or ground (very boring). 2) Killing 5 or 10 identical spawns of completely mindless AI. 3) Bring supplies to a planet (tedious).
Ground: Perhaps the most terrible MMO game play I've seen in years. It's just shocking. Probably the worst AI I've ever seen. No challenge at all. As per space, run around killing 5-10 spawns of the same aliens, which do nothing but stand there and fire at you, or occasionally attempt ineffective charges.
Plots: A few of the plots rip off D.C. Fontana plots. These are bearable. Whenever the incredibly amateurish Cryptic staff attempts to strike out on their own with plot lines, the result is comical. Furthermore, none of the plots or dialogue are remotely interesting, and this is combined with incredibly shallow encounters. STO never captures the weirdness of Star Trek; nothing is ever surprising. None of the missions present an interesting, unique, or fun boss battle.
Conclusion: PvE in STO is a complete and utter disaster. Also note: STO is being designed as a PvE game. I am extremely dubious about the ability of the Cryptic staff to produce good PvE for the Star Trek setting. If someone had told me that Cryptic's STO PvE was going to be the same as City of Heroes, I would have predicted that this would not work with the setting. The truth is that the PvE is like CoH, only much, much worse.
PvP
In my opinion, this is the only chance Cryptic has to salvage this game into something playable.
Space: In terms purely of the combat mechanics, space pvp is solid. There are enough abilities and builds to mess around with to keep a person interested for awhile, but more depth is needed for long-term playability. This aspect of the game is very salvageable.
Ground: A matter of taste. I like the expose/exploit mechanic. Again, I think that this aspect of the game is very salvageable.
Problems:
1. Once you reach max level, PvP becomes completely pointless. There is literally nothing to be gained from doing PvP other than the medals from daily pvp missions for Klingons. After that daily pvp quest is completed, all other pvp during that day is again pointless.
2. PvP is basically set up like an FPS, rather than an MMO. Two teams face off in an instanced map for either a set number of kills, or until points are reduced to zero on capture maps. There is zero open pvp, and pvp does not in any way affect the factions or game world. For this reason, pvp is essentially meaningless in both the feel and in terms of existential impact on the game world.
Conclusion:
The PvP in STO, although not completely lacking in potential like the PvE, was not enough to keep me playing beyond a few weeks. It just gets boring due to the complete lack of meaning or purpose. Once you get to max level, PvP cannot improve your character or impact the game world in any way at all. This would be less of a problem if the game featured open pvp, which can still be intrinsically fun. But the system of waiting in queues before engaging in short instanced combats is not rewarding, and quickly becomes quite boring.
State of the game
I am in a large multi-game pvp guild. The first few weeks, we had 20-30 players online. There are currently zero. The dedicated PvP guilds are quickly dying, and---if the forums are any indication---the PvE players are leaving in droves as well. Cryptic has promised updates: more boring PvE. More of stuff that virtually nobody likes is not the answer. The "Genesis" system is a complete joke. Everyone hates those randomly generated "exploration" missions; they are shallow and about as fun as a root canal. If this is what Cryptic thinks is going to produce an "end game," then STO is doomed.
If Cryptic showed any interest at all in revising and improving the PvP system, I might have some hope for this game. Unfortunately, it seems that Cryptic is determined to make STO a CoH in space. This is doomed to utter failure, in my opinion.
Bottom line:
Wrong developer and engine for the Star Trek IP. I predict that STO will be an utter debacle.
Comments
It already is. IMO.
[Mod Edit]
Does one really expect anything more from MMOs today? I think MMO players need to realise that if you pay for rubbish, then expect rubbish. As consumers we need to be more active in demanding quality software and not settling for the tripe that's being released (and at subscription based models too) nowadays.
And maybe as consumers some of you would do better to try and understand that you are not going to love every mmo released.
That's why I haven't played an MMO in over 2 years, I won't play just to play if I'm not having fun. I really think TOR is my last hope, if it goes bad then I'll just move on.
MMO's are usually on a 5 year development cycle so maybe we have seen the WOW clones come and burn and maybe we will start to see some fresh ideas in the genre in the future.
I had hope for TOR until Bioware dropped the Bombshell that was "heavily soloable" - Honestly, I've a sinister feeling it'll be nothing more than Guild Wars with Lighsabers, albeit with a decent Story. Still, one can hope - but I'm putting my chips on FF XIV.
A lot of these problems start before the game is ever released.. Don't you just love HYPE.. Game Devs today are as focused in hyping the game then actually designing it.. When you go to their shows like E3 and whatnots, they are only there to hype the game, not to expose you to the upcoming game and give you a realistic preview.. I personally have had it with this "modus operandi" bullshit.. We as potential customers should demand more and expect less unfortunately.. Next time a game Dev wants to lure us in with their vague, and often exaggerated BS, we should say, "NO thanks"..
If the games Dev insist on tossing out bait, then we as customers should say.. "gives us more in detail".. so we know exactly what the hype is going to be.. I can understand not handing out info early on because that is likely to change.. However once you are within that 1 year window, there is no reason to be coy and sly about what the game.. It's not like someone is going to steal your precious.. Perfect example is the upcoming SWToR.. It looks like the same 100% instance multi-player game as STO, only that the story writing is going to be 1,000 % better.. However Bioware is very tight lipped about a lot of the details, and doubt much will be seen or heard until launch..
Have you tried the new 5 man content?
Is that a question or the punchline to a joke
Is that a question or the punchline to a joke
Im honestly curious, his post is from today, just like the content is from today, and i cant do it myself cause im not maxlevel yet, so i have no idea how it looks and wether or not its any different from the rest of Space and Ground combat. Maybe he tried it and thats the reason he quits?
Is that a question or the punchline to a joke
Im honestly curious, his post is from today, just like the content is from today, and i cant do it myself cause im not maxlevel yet, so i have no idea how it looks and wether or not its any different from the rest of Space and Ground combat. Maybe he tried it and thats the reason he quits?
Its possible, my guess is that bearing in mind what he's said about the game, pve vs pvp in space etc, that the pve aspect, needs a lot more work on it to make it interesting than just making more difficult to complete ones, the reason he quit is pretty obvious though.
Is that a question or the punchline to a joke
Im honestly curious, his post is from today, just like the content is from today, and i cant do it myself cause im not maxlevel yet, so i have no idea how it looks and wether or not its any different from the rest of Space and Ground combat. Maybe he tried it and thats the reason he quits?
Its possible, my guess is that bearing in mind what he's said about the game, pve vs pvp in space etc, that the pve aspect, needs a lot more work on it to make it interesting than just making more difficult to complete ones, the reason he quit is pretty obvious though.
Well he said he is RA/BG 5, which means maxlevel. So the 5 man content is only one click away from him and he said he tried everything this game has to offer. Since his post comes the same day as the new content i assume he tried it and didnt like it which was the final straw or something for him.
Just find it strange that he doesnt mention it. 5 man content has per definition to be quite something else from normal singleplayer level content doesnt it? Its like all we had was single player dailys, and now that we get our first 5 man "dungeon" it doesnt even get a mention from those that could test it.
Is that a question or the punchline to a joke
Im honestly curious, his post is from today, just like the content is from today, and i cant do it myself cause im not maxlevel yet, so i have no idea how it looks and wether or not its any different from the rest of Space and Ground combat. Maybe he tried it and thats the reason he quits?
Its possible, my guess is that bearing in mind what he's said about the game, pve vs pvp in space etc, that the pve aspect, needs a lot more work on it to make it interesting than just making more difficult to complete ones, the reason he quit is pretty obvious though.
Well he said he is RA/BG 5, which means maxlevel. So the 5 man content is only one click away from him and he said he tried everything this game has to offer. Since his post comes the same day as the new content i assume he tried it and didnt like it which was the final straw or something for him.
Just find it strange that he doesnt mention it. 5 man content has per definition to be quite something else from normal singleplayer level content doesnt it? Its like all we had was single player dailys, and now that we get our first 5 man "dungeon" it doesnt even get a mention from those that could test it.
My guess is that since he posted this yesterday late, and the new 5-man came out this morning, that he did not try it. Also, judging by his lengthy and detailed critique of the game, I'd wager that a single 5-man mission would not have changed his mind. It seemed pretty clear that he found very few redeeming qualities in the game.
And since he said this: Ground: Perhaps the most terrible MMO game play I've seen in years. It's just shocking. Probably the worst AI I've ever seen. No challenge at all. As per space, run around killing 5-10 spawns of the same aliens, which do nothing but stand there and fire at you, or occasionally attempt ineffective charges. I'd also wager that the new 5-man, which supposedly takes place mostly on the ground, would likely have pissed him off.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
FF XIV is also heavily soloable. You can now be any profession you want by just switching your weapon.
I have not played the new "raidisode," nor do I intend to. As I said in my post, more of what I don't like is not going to keep me playing.
Note, however, that Cryptic shrewdly delayed release of this content until the very same day as pre-order subscriptions end for the first month; no doubt in an effort to milk one more month out of all of the people quitting. The STO site got so bad (the main section was virtually filled with "I quit" posts) that they had to start closing and/or deleting negative posts.
Except for the 20 million $ bonus Cryptic gets for having X number of subs within Y number of months after launch. That will be a success in their eyes, no matter how they have to achieve it.
I also bet that they have more McMMOs coming out - they'll try this same thing as many times as it works for getting paid. Only when it fails to pay out for them will they change their strategies.
Except for the 20 million $ bonus Cryptic gets for having X number of subs within Y number of months after launch. That will be a success in their eyes, no matter how they have to achieve it.
I also bet that they have more McMMOs coming out - they'll try this same thing as many times as it works for getting paid. Only when it fails to pay out for them will they change their strategies.
I don't think McMMOs will work when they don't have a huge IP, like Star trek, to base their games on. Look at Champiobs, it's already biting the dust.
Except for the 20 million $ bonus Cryptic gets for having X number of subs within Y number of months after launch. That will be a success in their eyes, no matter how they have to achieve it.
I also bet that they have more McMMOs coming out - they'll try this same thing as many times as it works for getting paid. Only when it fails to pay out for them will they change their strategies.
Rumor is they're defiling neverwinter nights as we speak ... coming 2011. Chamions with elves and orcs wee!!!
FF XIV is also heavily soloable. You can now be any profession you want by just switching your weapon.
Actually they are making it more solo friendly no one ever said heavily soloable. FFXI was known for its great group based content. They will not totally disregard one of the major factors that made their previous MMO good. And yes you can change profession by the switch of a weapon, but the weapon you switch to needs its skills leveled up. If you are playing your DD/warrior type class/profession and switch to your healer type class/profession your skills will not be the same for each class unless you level them each separately.
Except for the 20 million $ bonus Cryptic gets for having X number of subs within Y number of months after launch. That will be a success in their eyes, no matter how they have to achieve it.
I also bet that they have more McMMOs coming out - they'll try this same thing as many times as it works for getting paid. Only when it fails to pay out for them will they change their strategies.
I don't think McMMOs will work when they don't have a huge IP, like Star trek, to base their games on. Look at Champiobs, it's already biting the dust.
Yeah, but there's a lot of past IPs to go for. I saw someone say NWN might be next - I totally believe it.
So all they have to do is license someone's IP, get the same kind of "X number of subs after so many months gives us X millions bonus" deal, and they can McMMO us again.
Not to be a nitpicker, but if you need rewards for PvPing, then you shouldn't be PvPing. PvP is about the player vs. player experience, if you need to be rewarded for doing it, then you aren't cut out for it. Granted, MMO's have deteriorated to the point that everything is designed to feed you another token to get some better piece of gear. Narrow minded designers with no concept of how to make a meaningful PvP experience are to blame. I played DAoC PvP because it was fun, not because of realm ranks. Unreal Tournament was a blast and I never received a single upgrade, hehehe. The game sucks, glad I didn't buy it
If I just want fps-style pvp, then I'll fps without having to pay 15 dollars. When I pvp in an mmo (which I'm paying by the month for), then I expect more. Furthermore, mmo pvp mechanics are rarely as satisfying as a good fps. There are many ways to reward players for pvp other than gear; for instance, adding something in to give the appearance of having an impact on the game world (such as territory control), or some sort of rvr competition system. Also, a sandbox mmo can get away with reward-free pvp in a way which is more difficult for timed instances.