End- game Heroic Raids should be retarded hard. They should not be easy. If you want easier bosses, do 25 man regular or 10 man regular. People should remember that KT wasn't beaten for about a year after his release. A YEAR!
Wow you are wrong... How much more wrong could you be. KT was killed within 3 months of his release. Naxxramas 40man pre-bc was only out for 4 months which is why they decided they wanted to release it again in northrend. Once they released it in wrath of the lich king it was killed the same day the expansion came out.
My bad. It took a year before he was downed on Horde side on my server (Malfurion) - there was a big to-do about it. I was relatively new at the time so I had no idea what that meant. And to clarify further, I was referring to the original 40 man raid
Originally posted by J.Yossarian Originally posted by Astralglide A YEAR!
Naxx 40 was released in late June 2006. Nihilum downed Kel September 7, 2006. Two and a half month or so. Ulduar was released mid April 2009. Stars got world first on Alone in the Darkness Jul 7, 2009. Two and a half month after release.
That said, the 4 Horsemen still holds the record for the encounter that took the longest for any guild to master, without bug fixes or nerfs playing a part. Wrong again.
Release of dungeon to boss defeat 4 Horsemen - 67 days Alone in the Darkness - 83 days
Ragnaros, Nefarian and C'thun took so long to kill because in their first incarnations they were mathematically impossible to kill. With the best gear and every buff possible you still had no hope of killing them. Also, Blizzard never fully tests the last bosses in raids. Vashj, Kael'thas had bugs. Even recently Yogg Saron and Arthas had bugs that negated the first kills of the Lich King and the achievement Alone in the Darkness.
Poeple like to romanticize that the old vanilla raids were so much harder but they werent. They were just untested and buggy.
Alone in the Darkness - 83 days Ragnaros, Nefarian and C'thun took so long to kill because in their first incarnations they were mathematically impossible to kill. With the best gear and every buff possible you still had no hope of killing them.
Also, Blizzard never fully tests the last bosses in raids. Vashj, Kael'thas had bugs. Even recently Yogg Saron and Arthas had bugs that negated the first kills of the Lich King and the achievement Alone in the Darkness. Poeple like to romanticize that the old vanilla raids were so much harder but they werent. They were just untested and buggy.
Again? I think you confuse me with someone else. I do not romanticize old raids nor claim that they were so much harder, quite the contrary. I have always maintained that both the TBC raids and the current hard modes are on par with vanilla. Astralglide said a year and I was the first to correct that.
The Four Horsemen encounter is, according to wowwiki (though I'm unsure how far I should trust them) the most stubborn encounter from first tries until kill, given that the encounter was beatable to begin with (something I guess they are not counting Yogg+0 as). You list the time from Naxx was released, my number is from the first try on that spesiffic encounter. It might be wrong I don't have a better source.
If wow is hard, than you might try a singleplayer game on nighmare mode and compare..because wow is easymode at its hardest peak, the rest can be played blindfolded!
If wow is hard, than you might try a singleplayer game on nighmare mode and compare..because wow is easymode at its hardest peak, the rest can be played blindfolded!
WOW Heroics 25 Raids are too hard, like I said in the intro of this thread.
If you don't believe it: just try and do a world first 25 Heroic downing of Arthas.
You know 11.500.000 tried for 2 months now before you.
[Mod Edit]
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
To me, Burning Crusade was the golden age of raiding. You really had to do it in order from T4 to T6.5, and short cuts were limited. Raiding content dungeons were:
Karazhan (10) - 10 bosses
Gruul's Lair (25) - 2 bosses
Magtheridon's Lair (25) - 1 boss
Serpentshrine Cavern (25) - 6 bosses
Tempest Keep (25) - 4 bosses
Black Temple (25) - 9 bosses
Battle of Mount Hyjal (25) - 5 bosses
Zul'Aman (10) - 6 bosses
Sunwell (25) - 6 bosses
2 world bosses.
They were all new, fresh, didn't feel like too much grinding, and were still very active (moreso for T5 content) towards the end.
In WotLK, it seems they released 2 *new* real dungeons: Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel. The remaining are mono-boss dungeons with little to no trash. Dungeons are:
Obsidian Sanctum - 4 bosses (though it's more like 1 boss and 3 super-adds)
Eye of Eternity - 1 boss no trash
Naxxramas - 12 bosses (Rework from classic dungeons)
Ulduar - 14 bosses
Crusaders' Coliseum - 5 bosses no trash
Onyxia's Lair - 1 boss (Rework from classic dungeons)
Vault of Archavon - 4 bosses
Icecrown Citadel - 13 bosses
Major differences are: In WotLK, you have hardmodes, and the dungeon is balanced for 10 and 25 man. But also, because you can grab nice gear out of tokens that drops in 5 man dungeons, you can gear up quickly enough to skip through 2 tiers of content, which was never possible before. As a result, I see more "nostalgy raids" going on for Sunwell than Naxx or Ulduar. I hardly see anyone even trying hardmodes in Ulduar. Why bother, if not for the achievements?
Another depressing thing is how Gearscore / Achievements became "the metric for skills". You cannot get in a pug unless you have a GS of more than 5200.
Another depressing thing is how Gearscore / Achievements became "the metric for skills". You cannot get in a pug unless you have a GS of more than 5200. /rant
OFT! Gearscore is a useful tool, but nobody uses it for that. It has become the measure for getting into raids that they can do, but are kept out of because they can't run through the raids. Now the only people who can get gear at end-game are those who are in a raiding guild or those who are lucky enough to get carried because they are "filler"
To me, Burning Crusade was the golden age of raiding. You really had to do it in order from T4 to T6.5, and short cuts were limited. Raiding content dungeons were:
Karazhan (10) - 10 bosses Gruul's Lair (25) - 2 bosses Magtheridon's Lair (25) - 1 boss Serpentshrine Cavern (25) - 6 bosses Tempest Keep (25) - 4 bosses Black Temple (25) - 9 bosses Battle of Mount Hyjal (25) - 5 bosses Zul'Aman (10) - 6 bosses Sunwell (25) - 6 bosses 2 world bosses.
They were all new, fresh, didn't feel like too much grinding, and were still very active (moreso for T5 content) towards the end. In WotLK, it seems they released 2 *new* real dungeons: Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel. The remaining are mono-boss dungeons with little to no trash. Dungeons are:
Obsidian Sanctum - 4 bosses (though it's more like 1 boss and 3 super-adds) Eye of Eternity - 1 boss no trash Naxxramas - 12 bosses (Rework from classic dungeons) Ulduar - 14 bosses Crusaders' Coliseum - 5 bosses no trash Onyxia's Lair - 1 boss (Rework from classic dungeons) Vault of Archavon - 4 bosses Icecrown Citadel - 13 bosses
Major differences are: In WotLK, you have hardmodes, and the dungeon is balanced for 10 and 25 man. But also, because you can grab nice gear out of tokens that drops in 5 man dungeons, you can gear up quickly enough to skip through 2 tiers of content, which was never possible before. As a result, I see more "nostalgy raids" going on for Sunwell than Naxx or Ulduar. I hardly see anyone even trying hardmodes in Ulduar. Why bother, if not for the achievements? Another depressing thing is how Gearscore / Achievements became "the metric for skills". You cannot get in a pug unless you have a GS of more than 5200. /rant
A good overview. Tx.
But my initial remark was that the latest Raids in Wotlk (Crusader's and Icecrown) with their 25 Heroics (and even 10 Heroics) were made foolishly hard. As I can see it through the eyes of our raiding guild.
That was my initial point to start the thread btw: show that tx to the "easy" myth of forum posters, Blizzard is actually listening too much to those who don't .... even play the game. In TBC the "hard" thing was also a kind of "reputation time sinks", which on a videogame point of view is just "time consuming".
Now if I look around a little bit on my server (and I look at the guild advancements), I see very little progress in ICC. Oh people try alright, the crowds are standing en mass before ICC, but the achievements tell otherwise.
This will lead to the following: people will give up to try after say 3 months. The same thing happened to Algalon btw.
And ... the result is ... no one does the (excellent) Ulduar - not even for achievements, while they do BT and Sun; The reason is very simple: too hard (even with übergear).
Standing yesterday with my guild on ICC and just keep whiping for 6 weeks now without any progress....
You see: the problem is I .... play .... Wotlk. I think that's the big diffference (and hence my call out on this thread in the original post).
We still need another mechanic in those end raids, I don't know what exactly (it certainly is not more raids as that will just thin the pops), but perhaps making one tiny mistake with just one person in one split second in a group of 25 ...is asking too much for a game. Bring in the grind again ? I don't think that's a solution too. Gearing up through easy group play is actually fun for new 80's. It certainly beats the solo reputation grinds of the old days.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
If indeed the end-game raids offer a real challenge I don't think that should be changed because WoW needs more challenges in it . When I left it seamed to me the only really challenging part of the gameplay was the Arena system but I'm not someone thats concerned with getting all the epic gear and to the end-game content as fast as possible which is why I liked WoW in its initial years and felt let down as Blizzard made it increasingly easier to level and gain (welfare) epics .
All thoes who complain about the difficuty are all thoes new players Blizzard got after making the game easyer so player didnt get real challenge and when faced whit real challenge they complains
All thoes who complain about the difficuty are all thoes new players Blizzard got after making the game easyer so player didnt get real challenge and when faced whit real challenge they complains
I played since the EU launch.
And the thing that changed were the 4 different modes since patch 3.2. Heroic 25 is the final 4th step now I am talking about.
I don't consider reputation grinding to get attuned in the old days "hard", that's just time consuming.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
If wow is hard, than you might try a singleplayer game on nighmare mode and compare..because wow is easymode at its hardest peak, the rest can be played blindfolded!
Single player games on their hardest difficulty tend to be easier because you only need rely on yourself. In WoW you must rely on 24 other people not to be complete idiots. There is a difficulty in this some times and will halt progression. Now I will agree if you have the best people in the world working together they make the most difficult challenges in WoW look like child's play compared to some of the hardest single player games, but still the point remains the same.
If wow is hard, than you might try a singleplayer game on nighmare mode and compare..because wow is easymode at its hardest peak, the rest can be played blindfolded!
Single player games on their hardest difficulty tend to be easier because you only need rely on yourself. In WoW you must rely on 24 other people not to be complete idiots. There is a difficulty in this some times and will halt progression. Now I will agree if you have the best people in the world working together they make the most difficult challenges in WoW look like child's play compared to some of the hardest single player games, but still the point remains the same.
I like the "not to be complete idiots" part.
And "child's play". Nope, the Lich King is still not downed yet in heroic 25. Perhaps because of child's play in top guilds?
We await the announced buffs now.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Single player games on their hardest difficulty tend to be easier because you only need rely on yourself. In WoW you must rely on 24 other people not to be complete idiots....remains the same.
So what your saying is the game is dead easy - its just the brain dead players who refuse to give up blindfolds and subbing in order force the release of D3 and SC2?
It's a shame that such a poorly constructed game has lowered the expectations and quality of what would of been a better and newer generation of MMORPG fans.
And 0.10% is 0.10% of the hardcore Raiding guilds, not even players.
Tx to the bragging noobs, no one can down the final bosses anymore.
Sigh..generally players who complain its too hard, were complaining about how the game is too easy. I'm really, really glad there's some truly challenging content left in WoW, which takes the best gear and excellent coordination and communcation. This is coming from someone who isn't a raider, let alone hardcore raider. Because the rest of the game is mindlessly easy to the max now.
First months when a new raid / dungeon is introduced its always hard and almost unbeatable but after that they adapt it to the rest of the people in wow so that everyone can get tru the content which I think is lame.
lol try 18 hour raid in FF before u whine (Pandemonium Warden)... WoW is still easy mode.
And of course you've actually done that...right? Oh, wait, no, just using another tired talking point. Thought so.
Actually yes, i cleared the boss before enix nerfed it to pieces, because of all the whiners... Namely mmorpg.com users.
Dude, are you really proud of a game that takes 18 hours to kill a boss?, I mean some of us have serious stuff to do, other than waste 18 hours in a VIDEO GAME, you know, things like work, education, girls, among other things...
I bet you had a lot of fun spending 18 hours in front of your computer to accomplish somethings that doesn't give you anything but feed your ego, I guess thats why most of us choose WoW cause we want a Video game not a Second life.
Edit: Btw, just wait for the Strength of Wrynn and Hellscream’s Warsong buff increases to 30% everyone will be able to kill the lich king, not in Heroic mode tho.
And 0.10% is 0.10% of the hardcore Raiding guilds, not even players.
Tx to the bragging noobs, no one can down the final bosses anymore.
In the words of a great man ...'Camp11111, we're gonna need to go ahead and move you downstairs into storage B. We have some new people coming in, and we need all the space we can get. So if you could go ahead and pack up your stuff and move it down there, that would be terrific, mmmKay"? "Oh, and next Friday is Hawaiian shirt day. So, you know, if you want to you can go ahead and wear a Hawaiian shirt and jeans". Nah but seriously not everyone is going to down LK sorry.
lol try 18 hour raid in FF before u whine (Pandemonium Warden)... WoW is still easy mode.
And of course you've actually done that...right? Oh, wait, no, just using another tired talking point. Thought so.
Actually yes, i cleared the boss before enix nerfed it to pieces, because of all the whiners... Namely mmorpg.com users.
Dude, are you really proud of a game that takes 18 hours to kill a boss?, I mean some of us have serious stuff to do, other than waste 18 hours in a VIDEO GAME, you know, things like work, education, girls, among other things...
I bet you had a lot of fun spending 18 hours in front of your computer to accomplish somethings that doesn't give you anything but feed your ego, I guess thats why most of us choose WoW cause we want a Video game not a Second life.
There should always be things in a game that take extraordinary efforts to complete otherwise the game is simply ordinary.
Yeah, 18 hours... thats the way to go, it is healthy, mmmkay ?
lol try 18 hour raid in FF before u whine (Pandemonium Warden)... WoW is still easy mode.
And of course you've actually done that...right? Oh, wait, no, just using another tired talking point. Thought so.
Actually yes, i cleared the boss before enix nerfed it to pieces, because of all the whiners... Namely mmorpg.com users.
Dude, are you really proud of a game that takes 18 hours to kill a boss?, I mean some of us have serious stuff to do, other than waste 18 hours in a VIDEO GAME, you know, things like work, education, girls, among other things...
I bet you had a lot of fun spending 18 hours in front of your computer to accomplish somethings that doesn't give you anything but feed your ego, I guess thats why most of us choose WoW cause we want a Video game not a Second life.
There should always be things in a game that take extraordinary efforts to complete otherwise the game is simply ordinary.
I'm not sure how much extraordinary effort really goes into a fight that lasts more than 18 hours. That sounds more like a test of endurance than anything challenging in a video game.
If an npc encounter cannot defeat a raid group in 18 hours then I am not really sure how much difficulty there can be in that fight.
Comments
World Firsts (look at the time it took to master those instances)
CLASSIC
Molten Core:
First Lucifron kill - 20th January 2005
First Ragnaros - 25th April 2005l
Blackwing Lair:
First Razorgore the Untamed - 12th July 2005
First Nefarian - 26th September 2005
AQ 40:
Ahn'Qiraj was opened for the first time in the realm Medivh on January 23, 2006
C'Thun - 25th April 2006
Naxxmaras:
Grand Widow Faerlina - 21st June 2006 (did not find dates for Anub)
Kel'Thuzad - 7th September 2006
WOTLK
Naxxmaras:
Anub'Rekhan November - 15th 2008
Kel'Thuzad November - 15th 2008
Ulduar:
Flame Leviathan - April 14th
Algalon (25) - June 3rd 2009
Trial of the Crusader:
Released on 4th August 2009
Heroic Anub'arak - September 07
Icecrown Citadel (probably took longer because of limited access and not due to the difficulty):
Released on 8th December 2009
Lich King (25-man) - February 5.
"The person who experiences greatness must have a feeling for the myth he is in."
Wow you are wrong... How much more wrong could you be. KT was killed within 3 months of his release. Naxxramas 40man pre-bc was only out for 4 months which is why they decided they wanted to release it again in northrend. Once they released it in wrath of the lich king it was killed the same day the expansion came out.
My bad. It took a year before he was downed on Horde side on my server (Malfurion) - there was a big to-do about it. I was relatively new at the time so I had no idea what that meant. And to clarify further, I was referring to the original 40 man raid
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
Naxx 40 was released in late June 2006. Nihilum downed Kel September 7, 2006. Two and a half month or so.
Ulduar was released mid April 2009. Stars got world first on Alone in the Darkness Jul 7, 2009. Two and a half month after release.
That said, the 4 Horsemen still holds the record for the encounter that took the longest for any guild to master, without bug fixes or nerfs playing a part.
Wrong again.
Release of dungeon to boss defeat
4 Horsemen - 67 days
Alone in the Darkness - 83 days
Ragnaros, Nefarian and C'thun took so long to kill because in their first incarnations they were mathematically impossible to kill. With the best gear and every buff possible you still had no hope of killing them.
Also, Blizzard never fully tests the last bosses in raids. Vashj, Kael'thas had bugs. Even recently Yogg Saron and Arthas had bugs that negated the first kills of the Lich King and the achievement Alone in the Darkness.
Poeple like to romanticize that the old vanilla raids were so much harder but they werent. They were just untested and buggy.
Again? I think you confuse me with someone else. I do not romanticize old raids nor claim that they were so much harder, quite the contrary. I have always maintained that both the TBC raids and the current hard modes are on par with vanilla. Astralglide said a year and I was the first to correct that.
The Four Horsemen encounter is, according to wowwiki (though I'm unsure how far I should trust them) the most stubborn encounter from first tries until kill, given that the encounter was beatable to begin with (something I guess they are not counting Yogg+0 as). You list the time from Naxx was released, my number is from the first try on that spesiffic encounter. It might be wrong I don't have a better source.
If wow is hard, than you might try a singleplayer game on nighmare mode and compare..because wow is easymode at its hardest peak, the rest can be played blindfolded!
Want to play: Lego Universe
WOW Heroics 25 Raids are too hard, like I said in the intro of this thread.
If you don't believe it: just try and do a world first 25 Heroic downing of Arthas.
You know 11.500.000 tried for 2 months now before you.
[Mod Edit]
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Moderator, delete this post!
Want to play: Lego Universe
Moderator, delete this post!
Want to play: Lego Universe
To me, Burning Crusade was the golden age of raiding. You really had to do it in order from T4 to T6.5, and short cuts were limited. Raiding content dungeons were:
They were all new, fresh, didn't feel like too much grinding, and were still very active (moreso for T5 content) towards the end.
In WotLK, it seems they released 2 *new* real dungeons: Ulduar and Icecrown Citadel. The remaining are mono-boss dungeons with little to no trash. Dungeons are:
Major differences are: In WotLK, you have hardmodes, and the dungeon is balanced for 10 and 25 man. But also, because you can grab nice gear out of tokens that drops in 5 man dungeons, you can gear up quickly enough to skip through 2 tiers of content, which was never possible before. As a result, I see more "nostalgy raids" going on for Sunwell than Naxx or Ulduar. I hardly see anyone even trying hardmodes in Ulduar. Why bother, if not for the achievements?
Another depressing thing is how Gearscore / Achievements became "the metric for skills". You cannot get in a pug unless you have a GS of more than 5200.
/rant
OFT! Gearscore is a useful tool, but nobody uses it for that. It has become the measure for getting into raids that they can do, but are kept out of because they can't run through the raids. Now the only people who can get gear at end-game are those who are in a raiding guild or those who are lucky enough to get carried because they are "filler"
A witty saying proves nothing.
-Voltaire
And of course you've actually done that...right? Oh, wait, no, just using another tired talking point. Thought so.
A good overview. Tx.
But my initial remark was that the latest Raids in Wotlk (Crusader's and Icecrown) with their 25 Heroics (and even 10 Heroics) were made foolishly hard. As I can see it through the eyes of our raiding guild.
That was my initial point to start the thread btw: show that tx to the "easy" myth of forum posters, Blizzard is actually listening too much to those who don't .... even play the game. In TBC the "hard" thing was also a kind of "reputation time sinks", which on a videogame point of view is just "time consuming".
Now if I look around a little bit on my server (and I look at the guild advancements), I see very little progress in ICC. Oh people try alright, the crowds are standing en mass before ICC, but the achievements tell otherwise.
This will lead to the following: people will give up to try after say 3 months. The same thing happened to Algalon btw.
And ... the result is ... no one does the (excellent) Ulduar - not even for achievements, while they do BT and Sun; The reason is very simple: too hard (even with übergear).
Standing yesterday with my guild on ICC and just keep whiping for 6 weeks now without any progress....
You see: the problem is I .... play .... Wotlk. I think that's the big diffference (and hence my call out on this thread in the original post).
We still need another mechanic in those end raids, I don't know what exactly (it certainly is not more raids as that will just thin the pops), but perhaps making one tiny mistake with just one person in one split second in a group of 25 ...is asking too much for a game. Bring in the grind again ? I don't think that's a solution too. Gearing up through easy group play is actually fun for new 80's. It certainly beats the solo reputation grinds of the old days.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
If indeed the end-game raids offer a real challenge I don't think that should be changed because WoW needs more challenges in it . When I left it seamed to me the only really challenging part of the gameplay was the Arena system but I'm not someone thats concerned with getting all the epic gear and to the end-game content as fast as possible which is why I liked WoW in its initial years and felt let down as Blizzard made it increasingly easier to level and gain (welfare) epics .
Still each to his own .
All thoes who complain about the difficuty are all thoes new players Blizzard got after making the game easyer so player didnt get real challenge and when faced whit real challenge they complains
I played since the EU launch.
And the thing that changed were the 4 different modes since patch 3.2. Heroic 25 is the final 4th step now I am talking about.
I don't consider reputation grinding to get attuned in the old days "hard", that's just time consuming.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
Single player games on their hardest difficulty tend to be easier because you only need rely on yourself. In WoW you must rely on 24 other people not to be complete idiots. There is a difficulty in this some times and will halt progression. Now I will agree if you have the best people in the world working together they make the most difficult challenges in WoW look like child's play compared to some of the hardest single player games, but still the point remains the same.
Single player games on their hardest difficulty tend to be easier because you only need rely on yourself. In WoW you must rely on 24 other people not to be complete idiots. There is a difficulty in this some times and will halt progression. Now I will agree if you have the best people in the world working together they make the most difficult challenges in WoW look like child's play compared to some of the hardest single player games, but still the point remains the same.
I like the "not to be complete idiots" part.
And "child's play". Nope, the Lich King is still not downed yet in heroic 25. Perhaps because of child's play in top guilds?
We await the announced buffs now.
Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.
So what your saying is the game is dead easy - its just the brain dead players who refuse to give up blindfolds and subbing in order force the release of D3 and SC2?
It's a shame that such a poorly constructed game has lowered the expectations and quality of what would of been a better and newer generation of MMORPG fans.
Sigh..generally players who complain its too hard, were complaining about how the game is too easy. I'm really, really glad there's some truly challenging content left in WoW, which takes the best gear and excellent coordination and communcation. This is coming from someone who isn't a raider, let alone hardcore raider. Because the rest of the game is mindlessly easy to the max now.
Actually yes, i cleared the boss before enix nerfed it to pieces
[Mod Edit]
Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.
First months when a new raid / dungeon is introduced its always hard and almost unbeatable but after that they adapt it to the rest of the people in wow so that everyone can get tru the content which I think is lame.
So just wait for the nerf if you cant make it.
Havent played FF yet but I heard its hardmode.
Dude, are you really proud of a game that takes 18 hours to kill a boss?, I mean some of us have serious stuff to do, other than waste 18 hours in a VIDEO GAME, you know, things like work, education, girls, among other things...
I bet you had a lot of fun spending 18 hours in front of your computer to accomplish somethings that doesn't give you anything but feed your ego, I guess thats why most of us choose WoW cause we want a Video game not a Second life.
Edit: Btw, just wait for the Strength of Wrynn and Hellscream’s Warsong buff increases to 30% everyone will be able to kill the lich king, not in Heroic mode tho.
In the words of a great man
...'Camp11111, we're gonna need to go ahead and move you downstairs into storage B. We have some new people coming in, and we need all the space we can get. So if you could go ahead and pack up your stuff and move it down there, that would be terrific, mmmKay"? "Oh, and next Friday is Hawaiian shirt day. So, you know, if you want to you can go ahead and wear a Hawaiian shirt and jeans". Nah but seriously not everyone is going to down LK sorry.
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
Yeah, 18 hours... thats the way to go, it is healthy, mmmkay ?
I'm not sure how much extraordinary effort really goes into a fight that lasts more than 18 hours. That sounds more like a test of endurance than anything challenging in a video game.
If an npc encounter cannot defeat a raid group in 18 hours then I am not really sure how much difficulty there can be in that fight.