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So where is the skill?
//\//\oo
Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 2,767
in EVE Online
I'm tempted to try EVE, but having watched the PvP boredom on Xfire it seems like it's nothing more than clicking a skill and waiting for something to happen.
According to the creators of the game, there is a lot of skill involved: Player skill is supposed to determine the outcome more than gear is, yet I've not been able to see it in the videos I've seen.
So, EVE community, please answer me this: Where exactly is the skill in this game to be found and what does being a good PvPer entail in terms of skill?
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Comments
I am sorry but who told you that MMORPGS need player skill? all games are the same. the more buttons you mash or less the faster you do it the better. That's the only skill you need.
I think that "player skill" in EVE means the skill of player outside of the game and not in the game. In game all you do is click on menus. But to actually succeed you need "real life" skills, so to speak. The skills to research, to plan, to prepare and to execute the actions you want.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
This just shows you know nothing about EVE. EVE is not about your skill at playing a video game, its about the skills you possess as a person.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
This just shows you know nothing about EVE.
Yes because in EVE everything works on voice command. You never to touch any buttons on your keyboard.
This just shows you know nothing about EVE.
Yes because in EVE everything works on voice command. You never to touch any buttons on your keyboard.
Success in EVE is not decided by who mashes buttons the fastest. If you think that then, great. Good for you.
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
This just shows you know nothing about EVE.
Yes because in EVE everything works on voice command. You never to touch any buttons on your keyboard.
Success in EVE is not decided by who mashes buttons the fastest. If you think that then, great. Good for you.
I am talking about MMORPGS in general. its all about quick reflexes. yes you can have a better load out at your ship but does it matter if you can't point and shoot fast enough?
Being a long time player myself it doesnt take a whole lot unfortunately. Being prepared for PVP is it. It about having Money, skill traiing, ship componet layout vs your opponent and knowing when to use those components, and catching someone off guard. DONT get me wrong here... a noob can take down a vet very easily in the right conditions. Also you need to remember there is no such thing as a fair fight. If you are in a fair fight..someone didnt do something right. If your in a fleet its the makeup of your fleet and if can react to unforseen or various circumstances.
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All my opinions are just that..opinions. If you like my opinions..coolness.If you dont like my opinion....I really dont care.
Playing: ESO, WOT, Smite, and Marvel Heroes
This just shows you know nothing about EVE.
Yes because in EVE everything works on voice command. You never to touch any buttons on your keyboard.
Well, having key bindings doesn't mean it's a button masher. You should check your statements because button mashing in EVE is as pointless and useless as hitting your balls with a pair of stones.
The skill comes from knowledge first and foremost. You have to know what works in what situation, awareness of your enemies capabilities as compared to your own. In eve your greatest asset is situational awareness. Your second greatest is patience to learn and improve your "skill". That's what they are talking about when they say you need to be "skilled" to get by in their game.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
it's not a fps shooter, neither it is gear dependent like a game as WoW.
By skill they mean:
-know your ship and its strong points and weak points.
-know the strong and weak points of your opponent.
-be aware of your surroundings.
Sound simple for a "clicky menu" game, but so-called uber PVP veterans bite the dust with this every day.
Most of the combat scenarios should be played in your head, using your brain. And that's what puts most arcade fans off.
"going into arguments with idiots is a lost cause, it requires you to stoop down to their level and you can't win"
It's ironic that a game so dependent on PVP isn't about PVP. This is the best answer you could ever get. The game really is a complex virtual world, and being able to navigate that is what leads to success.
Of course being able to think quickly and act calmly is a good fall back.
My favorite saying to describe Pvp in eve is that its a 'battle for knowledge/information'
There are many many tools provided to you so that you can obtain this knowledge, the skill comes with :
a, knowing how to use a to these tools, quickly, effectivly and accuratly
b, knowing WHEN to use certain tools in certain situations
c, knowing how to exploit the information you obtain.
The ultimate skill comes with knowing how to act upon the information you obtain while simultaneously trying to second guess (out wit) what your enemy will do, might do and what he knows vs what you know.
All this while also managing a team of your own pilots (who's numbers can be anything from 1-500).. Seriously, if you've ever done any kind of organising in real life you'll know just how hard it is to organise several hundred people online.
Most people can pick up any pvp game, fps, rts.. anything, and grasp it pretty quickly enough to compete... but really, pvp in eve is not something simple, its not easy.. its costly and certainly not something that just anyone can pick up.
it's not a fps shooter, neither it is gear dependent like a game as WoW.
By skill they mean:
-know your ship and its strong points and weak points.
-know the strong and weak points of your opponent.
-be aware of your surroundings.
Sound simple for a "clicky menu" game, but so-called uber PVP veterans bite the dust with this every day.
Most of the combat scenarios should be played in your head, using your brain. And that's what puts most arcade fans off.
So once you've learned everything there is to learn: Where is the skill?
I've played other games like AO and Fallen Earth where there was a lot to learn, yet little skill required once you actually knew the mechanics of the game.
Skill is the complexity of actually implementing the knowledge you've acquired of the game; you could have a scenario entirely planned out, but still fail at executing it properly if it required a lot of skill.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
This, in a nutshell.
You have to define exactly what you consider skills, otherwise the question cannot be answered intelligently.
EVE is quite similar to RTS games, if you ask me. Both are about learning and knowledge, although difference is that RTS require high actions per minute and EVE has higher random factor. Both also are very much based on paper, rock and scissors. Certain fittings and ship beat certain combinations, ranged beats melee, cavalry beats ranged etc.
You could say that doesn't require any skill, anyone can become great at the game if they read-up a lot and learn the game through trial and error for countless hours... but isn't it the same with all games? Could be said that skill is equal to time spent learning. Only a physical (including brain functions) disability would stop you from becoming skillful. But is a person considered skilled if they are born with superior physical qualities? In this case a "healthy" person would have the superior physical qualities in comparison to a person with disability (not necessarily actual disability, perhaps just certain less evolved brain function). So again, I claim skill is acquired by spending time learning no matter in what game or real life ability. EVE requires you to do a lot of it, a lot more than in any other game I know, so from this we could figure that in EVE, skill matters a lot.
Waiting on Xsyon & betaing stuff
It's ironic that a game so dependent on PVP isn't about PVP. This is the best answer you could ever get. The game really is a complex virtual world, and being able to navigate that is what leads to success.
Of course being able to think quickly and act calmly is a good fall back.
I think this is because your definition of PvP is just a lttle to narrow. PvP is not just combat between 2 (or more) Player controlled characters. It is any situation in which 2 (or more) players compete against each other, in EvE this also includes Every aspect of the game from Marketeering and Strategic Empire Building down to whos Wallet is bigger. Yes, even 2 players that have never "PvPed" and have stuck to Mission Running or Mining are often in competition for the "Who has the bigger/better ship?" prize.
For all those that insist that PvP must be about button mashing, you are sadly deluded if you think all you have to do in EvE is mash buttons. I have spent an entire battle as a forward scout and after I clicked the button and activated my cloak all I did was click 1 key about a dozen times. To make it even more interesting that button was not even part of the game, it was the TS PTT key. As all I had to do was pay attention and report those things that I saw.
For those that want Pewpew and nothing else, EvE is not your game. Eve will make you think, you will actually have to wake up and pay attention. If you do get anything on a Silver Platter, the guy next to you is probably going to try and steal it or failing that at least destroy it to deny you the gain.
I too judge a game with a free trial entirely on the basis of a few "xfire vids" :eyeroll:
Give me liberty or give me lasers
skill
1 /sk?l/ Show Spelled[skil] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2.
competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3.
a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
4.
Obsolete. understanding
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
skill
1 /sk?l/ Show Spelled[skil] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2.
competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3.
a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
4.
Obsolete. understanding
This is the "skill" needed to be effective in EVE. Sure you may want it be in regard to twitch skill. However, it is what it is. You asked and you have basically been answered. Though I think you have somewhat underestimated the value of how learning effects your "skill" within EVE's environment.
From what I understand within EVE a player never truly learns everything, much like real life, every encounter can be a learning experience.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
it's not a fps shooter, neither it is gear dependent like a game as WoW.
By skill they mean:
-know your ship and its strong points and weak points.
-know the strong and weak points of your opponent.
-be aware of your surroundings.
Sound simple for a "clicky menu" game, but so-called uber PVP veterans bite the dust with this every day.
Most of the combat scenarios should be played in your head, using your brain. And that's what puts most arcade fans off.
So once you've learned everything there is to learn: Where is the skill?
I've played other games like AO and Fallen Earth where there was a lot to learn, yet little skill required once you actually knew the mechanics of the game.
Skill is the complexity of actually implementing the knowledge you've acquired of the game; you could have a scenario entirely planned out, but still fail at executing it properly if it required a lot of skill.
If you ever run into an EVE player who claims to have learned everything there is please send him my way, as I've not run across anyone who would state this.
Every ship type (and sometimes between ships of a similar type) fly and fight differently. You can't use the same tactics on any of them, so most people try to get good at a handful because its hard to be great at more than that.
Some ships use ECM jam the enemy guns (at great range), others use energy drains to take the capacitor from their opponents. Some rely on tremendous speed (which make them hard to hit) and others have webbers to slow those same folks down and kill them. (if they can get in range)
Its all a careful ballet that you have to watch a variety of factors including range, transversal velocity, actual velocity, type of damage your weapons do vs type of damage your opponent is weakest against and switch accordingly. If a jamming or armor buffer ships comes on to the field your FC has to make sure it is killed as quickly as possible. Meanwhile your opponents will probably be spider tanking (remote repairing) your target to prevent you from killing it.
Back and forth, dozens if not hundreds of factors can play, and at any moment you opponents can surprise you and bring the unexpected.
I recall one situation where I was in a hydra fleet (horde of small, cheap ships) in empire fighting a war dec. Its a great tactic for swarming one or two lone ships because even if you lose a dozen during the attack, you still claim victory over the costlier larger ships.
Unless, while sitting at a safe spot, you opponent warps in a battleshiop fitted to the max with smart bombs which can devestate small ships in seconds and in our case, the single unaffiliated ship died to Concorde (NPC Police) but only after killing 60% of our force. We made the mistake of assuming no one could use smart bombs in empire effectively and it never occurred to us to use an unaffiliated alt to pull it off even if it meant the loss of the (totally insured) BS to Concorde.
Its those sorts of moves that make EVE so different, and your combat experience can vary so widely. Victory can and is snatched from the jaws of defeat regularly.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
skill
1 /sk?l/ Show Spelled[skil] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2.
competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3.
a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
4.
Obsolete. understanding
The following are some skills that are used in EVE, Political skills, Marketing skills, Scamming, Long term Spying and internal disruption.
Tactical planning and execution, Strategic planning and execution, Lying, stealing etc its a pretty much and anything goes game.
As far as the direct combat goes it is not a twitch game so no extreme hand and eye coordination is needed.
You need to be pretty good at situational and spatial awareness also.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
skill
1 /sk?l/ Show Spelled[skil] Show IPA
–noun
1.
the ability, coming from one's knowledge, practice, aptitude, etc., to do something well: Carpentry was one of his many skills.
2.
competent excellence in performance; expertness; dexterity: The dancers performed with skill.
3.
a craft, trade, or job requiring manual dexterity or special training in which a person has competence and experience: the skill of cabinetmaking.
4.
Obsolete. understanding
The following are some skills that are used in EVE, Political skills, Marketing skills, Scamming, Long term Spying and internal disruption.
Tactical planning and execution, Strategic planning and execution, Lying, stealing etc its a pretty much and anything goes game.
As far as the direct combat goes it is not a twitch game so no extreme hand and eye coordination is needed.
Thanks.
This is a sequence of characters intended to produce some profound mental effect, but it has failed.
Thanks.
So Hand eye coordination is "skill"?
That's all you wanted to know?
Learning game mechanics and tactics in Eve > Holding a mouse pointer over a player and clicking a button.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP