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EAs subscription goals for TOR

2

Comments

  • therain93therain93 Member UncommonPosts: 2,039

    So, only 1.9 millions sub will be total fail? ( ' ;

  • FuggoFuggo Member Posts: 121
    Originally posted by zidane01970


    Honestly, if it's bioware doing it, and since it's starwars I almost have no doubt it'll reach that goal pretty easily, at least for awhile. Considering there's so many classes each with separate storylines and such, or so it seems, it all looks pretty good.
     
    And if that many people are honestly complaining about a cartooney graphics style, and what some of you say is true, MMO players really need to get off their high horse. It's the game that's fun, not the graphics. I -still- play the original two dooms.



     

    And to play the game and have fun I must look at it. =)

    [Earthrise ss in my profile][Coming out Q2 2010]

  • AselliaAsellia Member UncommonPosts: 174
    Originally posted by Fuggo

    Originally posted by zidane01970


    Honestly, if it's bioware doing it, and since it's starwars I almost have no doubt it'll reach that goal pretty easily, at least for awhile. Considering there's so many classes each with separate storylines and such, or so it seems, it all looks pretty good.
     
    And if that many people are honestly complaining about a cartooney graphics style, and what some of you say is true, MMO players really need to get off their high horse. It's the game that's fun, not the graphics. I -still- play the original two dooms.



     

    And to play the game and have fun I must look at it. =)

     

    Yes, which implies graphics are a factor that help the experience, not make it.

  • Toquio3Toquio3 Member Posts: 1,074

    Age of Conan is pretty realistic. If thats all that matters to you why dont you go play that? Truth is, everyone who says the graphics are too cartoony and childish are full of shit. They are still going to buy that box, whether they aknowledge it or not.

    And I dont think the graphics are cartoony. Do you people even know what a cartoon is?

    And childish? I think Age of Conan is childish. I think TERA is childish.

     

    image
    If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.

  • sadeisinsanesadeisinsane Member Posts: 58

    I think that Bioware is fully capable of reaching the subs they require to make a  profit.  Like others who posted here, Bioware has a good reputation of providing quality games.  They have a huge IP with a good fan base to work with also.  Also by doing some things different then the standard MMOs, they are trying to offer something that nobody else has, i.e. full voice overs - meaning you no longer have to read quests, they also mentioned they are trying to break up the necessity for tank + healer + dps when it comes to grouping essentially breaking up the monotony of raiding, along with adding some new types of quest objectives - trying to steer clear of "go kill x number of y. Being very story driven and giving your choices during your personal story that will have different outcomes is something we have not seen in MMOs as well.  Sure for some people,  they may only be interested in endgame and how to get there ASAP, and story of the game matters little to them, but I think that is a small amount of people when compared to the over all community.  MMOs need a game like this, that is willing to break the mold, and do it successfully.

    Plus with all the game content they have already revealed, with more still to come, I believe that TOR will have a lot to keep people busy for a long while helping with the longevity of the game.

  • Xondar123Xondar123 Member CommonPosts: 2,543
    Originally posted by Krashner

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Well, then they better get it right.

    I have a lot of faith in bioware, but it's still their first mmo so I'm not sure how to feel about it. If they can make it fun like KOTOR 1, 2 was garbage, I think they'll have nothing to worry about. Oh well, regardless if its going to fail or not I still plan on at least trying it

     

    Wasn't KOTOR 2 made by Obsidian and not Bioware?

  • gauge2k3gauge2k3 Member Posts: 442

    Bad move, and this just shows how little EA knows about this market STILL.  No one from the market they are pulling from based on IP (SWG and star wars) wants Star Wars WoW.  Also we have proved that, IP or not, WoW players are not willing to leave WoW for another WoW.

    This game is doomed from the beginning.  Show me a game that is not WoW, I mean as retardedly mass market, and I will show you a game that at least shows potential to have more than a million subs.

  • SgtFrogSgtFrog Member Posts: 5,001

    good luck to them i guess.

    image
    March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon

  • XiaokiXiaoki Member EpicPosts: 4,050


    Originally posted by arctarus
    Just wondering, isit truly wise to release subs numbers require? If they didn't say anything in the beginning, and able to retain 800k subs, they would be consider quite a huge success.
    But now that we know they need at least 1mil to get even, it may be label a failure and there will be fear that the game will be shut down or put in maint mode...
     
     

    Even if public perception deems it a "success" does not mean it actually is.

    A large publisher like EA determines success based on financial performance. So, if TOR maintains 800,000 subscribers it will still be a financial loss to EA because of the amount of money they spent to produce the game.

    If TOR has reasonable retention with an upward trend and critical praise from the media and consumers they may revise their projections from a 6 month to 1 year plan to a 2 year plan.

  • darkangel99darkangel99 Member Posts: 23

    i dont think that is 1 milion subs to break even, im pretty sure it is 1 million box sales to break even on what they have spent so far.  when you figure out how many subs you are gonna have that is when you adjust your team to be able to make a profit  based on the customers.  this game will make a profit, will it make as much of a profit as warcraft, remains to be seen, but i think it will. 

     

    quite frankly this game will not fail since no game really fails, some just have more success than others.  all games make money, even sto made money and is making money for cryptic.  I dont understand why so many people want games to fail, maybe they dont realize the mmo market is very stagnant right now, new games coming out that suck daily, if something doesnt change in the way mmos are made right now then this industry will be dead in a few years with only one game out and that is blizzards warcraft and maybe eve online.  maybe people could at least wish other.  TOR will do just fine and i dont understand the cartoony graphics statement.  the graphics are really good imo, no they are not realistic but they have already explained why they didnt do a realistic approach like lotro and i think for this game the graphics work very well.  maybe the character models aint so superawesome but the planets are very sweet imo and as we all know from the juggernaut of the industry, graphics does not make a game, fun gameplay is what makes the game and a rich indepth story, both of which tor will have.

  • Xondar123Xondar123 Member CommonPosts: 2,543
    Originally posted by Xiaoki


     

    Originally posted by arctarus

    Just wondering, isit truly wise to release subs numbers require? If they didn't say anything in the beginning, and able to retain 800k subs, they would be consider quite a huge success.

    But now that we know they need at least 1mil to get even, it may be label a failure and there will be fear that the game will be shut down or put in maint mode...

     

     

    Even if public perception deems it a "success" does not mean it actually is.

     

    A large publisher like EA determines success based on financial performance. So, if TOR maintains 800,000 subscribers it will still be a financial loss to EA because of the amount of money they spent to produce the game.

    If TOR has reasonable retention with an upward trend and critical praise from the media and consumers they may revise their projections from a 6 month to 1 year plan to a 2 year plan.

     

    That's really short-term thinking... Which is exactly what I'd expect from EA.

  • IsturiIsturi Member Posts: 1,509
    Originally posted by Teala

    Originally posted by Anabantha


    WoW was blizzards first mmo and they did alright =P



     

    WoW was not Blizzards first multipler online game though - Diablo was.

     

    LoL thx Teala for the update. Key words MUTIPLAYER and MMO hehe you are right though and so is Anabantha.

    image

  • MoretrinketsMoretrinkets Member Posts: 730

    First let's wait for the game release plus the first month of honeymoon, then we will have an idea. Having goals is one thing, reaching them is another story.

  • ardohainardohain Member Posts: 103

     

    meh...nm, already covered =)

  • DistopiaDistopia Member EpicPosts: 21,183
    Originally posted by Krashner

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Well, then they better get it right.

    I have a lot of faith in bioware, but it's still their first mmo so I'm not sure how to feel about it. If they can make it fun like KOTOR 1, 2 was garbage, I think they'll have nothing to worry about. Oh well, regardless if its going to fail or not I still plan on at least trying it

     

    This is such a common misconception. Yes Bioware has never released an MMO, the people making TOR in large part have released many of them. As they have people from all over the MMO genre on the project.

    The people working on TOR know what an MMO is, they know how to create one. They know what the definition of an MMO is, they know what people expect when you call your game an MMO.

    This is not the first MMO these designers have created.

    For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson


  • darkwarhammedarkwarhamme Member UncommonPosts: 55
    Originally posted by Malickie

    Originally posted by Krashner

    Originally posted by Sovrath


    Well, then they better get it right.

    I have a lot of faith in bioware, but it's still their first mmo so I'm not sure how to feel about it. If they can make it fun like KOTOR 1, 2 was garbage, I think they'll have nothing to worry about. Oh well, regardless if its going to fail or not I still plan on at least trying it

     

    This is such a common misconception. Yes Bioware has never released an MMO, the people making TOR in large part have released many of them. As they have people from all over the MMO genre on the project.

    The people working on TOR know what an MMO is, they know how to create one. They know what the definition of an MMO is, they know what people expect when you call your game an MMO.

    This is not the first MMO these designers have created.

    You really hit it home with that one. Bioware Austin was formed to work on this MMO, and they have hired many people who have experience working on MMOs in the past.

    Also Bioware aquired Mythic meaning they have full access to another MMO. They have already said they have been learning from them about mistakes that were made as well as sucesses.

     

    Should be interesting to say the least.

  • camp11111camp11111 Member Posts: 602

    *** Subroutine start

    Lord of the Ring Lore.

    Conan Lore.

    Warhammer Lore.

    THE dungeons and dragons Lore

    Surrogate Star trek Lore

    Superheroes Lore

    Pirates of the .. Lore.



    Isn't it great they all had a million active western subscriptions ! ... before launch

    1.2 million sales on launch .... 400K after 6 months, because of the lack of fundamental mmo elements.

    That's the only constant 33% trend we saw in 5 years time. Why should a spaceless SF game, with NPC henchmen to avoid grouping, be any different?

    Because of the Lore ? Gosub ***start.

    Want a real mmorpg? Play WOW with experience turned off mode and be Pve_Pvp King at any level without a rat race.

  • AgtSmithAgtSmith Member Posts: 1,498
    Originally posted by championsFan


    The only thing which I can see stopping EA from meeting their subscription targets would be a botched (greedy) pricing model. Blizzard are obviously masters at the psychology of game addiction (speaking from Diablo 2, personally), but I will not be surprised if TOR exceeds WoW's peak subscription numbers and becomes a decade long phenomenon.  

     

    I trust Bioware will make a good game but I also trust EA will muck it up somehow, and I think it is going to be microtransactions.  If they even have a hint of a item shop then I won't even bother with the game and I have no doubt it will be just another major IP flop.  Bioware has already talked about some kind of unique pricing so I am betting that EA is making the mistake of thinking they have a guaranteed cash cow and they are planning to milk the hell out of it.  Like a hot chick that knows she is hot even if the game is great with EAs attitude and way of doing business they are likely to really much this up, especially if they think now they got a hot chick on their hands.

     

    From the KotRO TOS:

    :• You acknowledge and agree that all points acquired during the Game Program are non-refundable and have no monetary value.

    • You acknowledge and agree that all items acquired for points during the Game Program are non-refundable and non-tradable.

    • You acknowledge and agree that [BioWare] reserves the right to add or remove points to your account at any time and without warning.

    • You acknowledge and agree that [BioWare[ reserves the right to change/add/remove points rewarded in the Game store at any time and without warning.

     

    --------------------------------
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  • solarinesolarine Member Posts: 1,203

    Well, if they only had the established MMO playerbase to go on, it'd indeed be a tough, tough challenge. Fortunately they have more.

    One point I guess people are neglecting is that Bioware is going to bring a good load of non-MMO-players into the MMO space with this game. Just as Blizzard did. Sometimes we think all the people in the US and the EU playing Blizzard are part of the usual MMO subscriber base, but they're not. Most of them play Farmville or somethlng like that after they freeze their WOW subscriptions, because they're not even aware of "a booming MMO industry" in the first place. MMO means WOW to them.

    It's entirely possible Bioware will bring in many such fans. I'd even not be surprised if a major, major part of their subscriber base would be made up of such players instead of your usual MMO gamers. They would be fools to not try and appease them. So, making a sandbox? And alienating their whole fanbase? Are you bloody kidding me? We saw Blizzard pull in millions in their first couple of years whereas the best their major source of inspiration - EQ - managed was 500,000. So the success has more to do with Blizzard's own tenets than the usual charms of the genre itself. Just as in Diablo: The CRPG gamers of the time were screaming: "This is blasphemy! You can't call this an RPG!" Blizzard were laughing all the way to the bank.

    One other thing people are neglecting is: Despite the genre's popularity, next to no company that proved  their worth in the gaming industry at large tried their hand at MMOs - other than Blizzard. Verant Interactive, Mythic, Cryptic, Turbine, none of these companies have proved they can make highly polished, quality games with solid content (which MMOs are not) as is called for in the mainstream single player gaming industry. They just have shown they can concoct some good  online gaming mechanics. So we have only one single precedent for what Bioware is doing at the moment. And that is Blizzard.

    I don't mean this game will have WOW level of success, but I do mean we should not judge it in terms of other games from companies with *only* MMO experience and just a fanbase comprising online gamers (Don't forget: *they* are the ones who have to steal from Blizzard to up their subs, because they have no access to the playerbase outside the MMO space).

    I won't be surprised if several other major single player gaming companies follow suit if Bioware scores a home run with this.



     

  • DerWotanDerWotan Member Posts: 1,012

    Boneheaded move its that simple. It doesn't matter how much money you are throwing at your game no one can predict the outcome. Could it be a success? Definately. Could it fail? For sure.

    Bioware IS under pressure now. Reminds me so much on WAR its not even funny the same incredible high expectations (3 million after 2 years!),  kind of equal hype and the ongoing awesome/never seen before marketing BS.

    Right now I really don't know what to think about this game. The gfx needs work work and work because its looks to cartoony/childish. Bioware didn't show much gameplaywise: [i]yes the game is fully voiced and about the story got that.[/i]

    Better they show us the group and endgame system soon because these kind of things are made to keep people enjoying the game. The story will be over at some point (200 hours!) which is basically 6 weeks so not very long.

    If BW can somehow manage to get 800.000 subs and keep them over months it should be a huge success, no matter what some stupid businessmen are thinking.

    We need a MMORPG Cataclysm asap, finish the dark age of MMORPGS now!

    "Everything you're bitching about is wrong. People don't have the time to invest in corpse runs, impossible zones, or long winded quests. Sometimes, they just want to pop on and play."
    "Then maybe MMORPGs aren't for you."

  • gauge2k3gauge2k3 Member Posts: 442

    Can I ask this.

    1.  How many WoW fans want WoW in space?

    2.  Even if you want WoW in space, will you leave WoW to play it?

    3.  How many star wars fans want WoW in space?

    4.  How many SWG (pre-CU) fans want WoW in space?  (oh yeah we already have that....didn't do so hot....)

     

    This is the group of people this game is aimed at.  Whether or not bioware thinks or knows about it.  Answer those questions and I think you will come up pretty short.  I'll leave you to your own revelations.

  • Daffid011Daffid011 Member UncommonPosts: 7,945
    Originally posted by DerWotan


    Boneheaded move its that simple. It doesn't matter how much money you are throwing at your game no one can predict the outcome. Could it be a success? Definately. Could it fail? For sure.
    Bioware IS under pressure now. Reminds me so much on WAR its not even funny the same incredible high expectations (3 million after 2 years!),  kind of equal hype and the ongoing awesome/never seen before marketing BS.
    Right now I really don't know what to think about this game. The gfx needs work work and work because its looks to cartoony/childish. Bioware didn't show much gameplaywise: [i]yes the game is fully voiced and about the story got that.[/i]
    Better they show us the group and endgame system soon because these kind of things are made to keep people enjoying the game. The story will be over at some point (200 hours!) which is basically 6 weeks so not very long.
    If BW can somehow manage to get 800.000 subs and keep them over months it should be a huge success, no matter what some stupid businessmen are thinking.

     

    This is pretty much how I feel.

    I look forward to another bioware game, because they make good games, but at the same time I am getting very nervous about how EA is talking and what has been shown of this game so far.

    All the talk about playing a character through a story and then being able to play another character through the same story, but with different twists sort of scares me.  I'm sure the stories will be good and make building the first character very interesting.  Having different stories for additional characters will make playing alts somewhat better, but what happens when the story lines end? 

     

    My big fear is that there will not be much to do once the storyline ends until EA makes bioware churn out little chapters of stories every couple of months and throws them into some cash shop. 

     

     

  • AnubisanAnubisan Member UncommonPosts: 1,798

    Have faith in almighty Bioware brothers and sisters!

  • leumasx7leumasx7 Member Posts: 218

    key tip for bioware...

     

    Delay for at least 5months after WoW expansion... if u can... for the delay.

     

    Do Extensive Alpha/Beta testing to tune the game.

  • Vagrant_ZeroVagrant_Zero Member Posts: 1,190


    Originally posted by leumasx7
    key tip for bioware...
     
    Delay for at least 5months after WoW expansion... if u can... for the delay.
     
    Do Extensive Alpha/Beta testing to tune the game.

    TOR isn't slated to launch until a good six months if not more after Cata.

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