Would have been intresting if OP would have mentioned how devs could make this happen in a genre like MMORPG where you can expect hundreds of players playing simultaneously on one server, instead of what is obvious how it can be delivered in multiplayer games. AvP is a nice game but to say MMORPG devs should learn from it is NOT what I would like MMORPG developers to actually do. It works great in multiplayer games as we expect it the way it is, MMORPG should offer so much more that it's kinda unrealistic to expect such a limited experiance from a MMORPG. Okay lets say they should learn from it, is it that we want our PVP experiance to be inside small instances where we can do a 16vs16 battle against eachother?
I guess in an MMORPG you can't have the Alien crawling on cielings, or sides of walls... they'd be forced to walk/run like any other class?
Nah not really but read what you say below this.
Perhaps you're right in that making distinctive gameplay differences for MMORPGs might prove technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, as it does in fps games.
Excactly
Too bad, you feel that way...
Ah you got me wrong here, it would be awesome if we could have that in a MMORPG, but you see as you yourself said before it's at the moment technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, so don't give me that Too bad you feel that way cause as said it would be awesome but think about your own words as I repeated them
I'm 50/50 on that it would prove to difficult... but still an effort should be made to find something new that could be implemented in an MMORPG, techincal difficulties asside. I think the OP is just trying to suggest that it's a good idea on paper, and perhaps why not try it for MMORPGs... at worse it will fail, or moderately offer something new albeit not perfected for MMORPG environment, or at best give a whole new gameplay mechanic that could open up and set new trends in MMORPG game designs.
Well who knows at this point what could or might happen, still I do like that he suggests this as a possibility, ... perhaps mmo devs should take notice... can't hurt really, and this to the benefit of all gamers if one day one dev. should succeed in this.
I am all for innovations, but would like to see things being perfected with what we have and we not there yet, single/mulitplayer have proven this already with many games that have come and gone in several years, what do we have that comes close to perfection in this genre? Once we see developers actually being close to perfection I hope we will see new innovative idea's come to "virtual life"
But I do want it to be massive and not some instance like multiplayer games, tech will get there, but as said we not there yet.
Heck I agree with most of what you've said, but still the dreamer in me still wants them to try despite the lack of technology and bandwidth... who knows maybe one dev. could suprise us all ... anywho at this point I know it's wishful thinking on my part
Can't agree more Jon. The three faction set up, especially with completely difference abilities, is a winner in my book. So tired of copycat games where everyone is the same. Where is the challenge in those games?
Three factions would have saved Warhammer online. I think many people who tried that game expected or at least hoped that a third faction would be added since it worked so well in DAoC. Mythic's greatest failure was ignoring many of it's greatest accomplishments in DAoC and assuming the nice graphics and implementation of player quests would trump great gameplay and well thought out pvp.
I think that is the most succinct and accurate review of warhammer I have read
When I first read Mythics plans on only having two "fractions", I really thought that they were really missing a trick. That, and the "realm pride" or "that's my castle you scum sucking hib are camping in" effect of the way land (and castle/towers) were implimented in DAoC (in fairness, I did think that the movable battleground idea would be fun along with capital city sacking - shame the idea appears better than the reality).
What I must applaud is that that the Devs of AvP totally ignored the mantra that the only way to get class balance is to have the same classes (and proved that you still can have fun when the opposing class are totally different). Personally I feel the commonly expressed view that you must have the same classes available to all the fractions is poison to creative gameplay. I loved that DAoC's fractions were melee/magic/both design; although WARs mirror classes works very well giving distinctivness (Sqig herder v White Lion) but at least allowing a degree of gagging of the OMG your class PWNs mind ITS NOT FAIR - crybabies.
Could I just add that an AvP mmo based off the series would be something I could get interested in. Especially if I could start off as a face hugger and grow my alien from whatever i attacked
I also agree an mmo with distinct factions could also be interesting
So the focus on the article is a FPS game with a product shot? I swore I logged into MMORPG.com...hmmm...
I think he wrote this in respects to and perhaps as a hint to MMORPG devs. to take notice as the faction/racial/gameplay mechanics of AvP.
Heck, taking AvP and working w/ that, I'm sure SEGA would one day make an MMORPG using the fps version as a base to start from. Who knows. Would be nice though.
/shrugs
AvP Online?
Might be tricky, Preds and Xeno are suppose to be "rare"
Maybe the Terans get to command a squad per player this would make it seem like 5 to one odds for terran vs pred and preds/xeno could be made bad ass powerful
Would have been intresting if OP would have mentioned how devs could make this happen in a genre like MMORPG where you can expect hundreds of players playing simultaneously on one server, instead of what is obvious how it can be delivered in multiplayer games. AvP is a nice game but to say MMORPG devs should learn from it is NOT what I would like MMORPG developers to actually do. It works great in multiplayer games as we expect it the way it is, MMORPG should offer so much more that it's kinda unrealistic to expect such a limited experiance from a MMORPG. Okay lets say they should learn from it, is it that we want our PVP experiance to be inside small instances where we can do a 16vs16 battle against eachother?
I guess in an MMORPG you can't have the Alien crawling on cielings, or sides of walls... they'd be forced to walk/run like any other class?
Nah not really but read what you say below this.
Perhaps you're right in that making distinctive gameplay differences for MMORPGs might prove technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, as it does in fps games.
Excactly
Too bad, you feel that way...
Ah you got me wrong here, it would be awesome if we could have that in a MMORPG, but you see as you yourself said before it's at the moment technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, so don't give me that Too bad you feel that way cause as said it would be awesome but think about your own words as I repeated them
I'm 50/50 on that it would prove to difficult... but still an effort should be made to find something new that could be implemented in an MMORPG, techincal difficulties asside. I think the OP is just trying to suggest that it's a good idea on paper, and perhaps why not try it for MMORPGs... at worse it will fail, or moderately offer something new albeit not perfected for MMORPG environment, or at best give a whole new gameplay mechanic that could open up and set new trends in MMORPG game designs.
Well who knows at this point what could or might happen, still I do like that he suggests this as a possibility, ... perhaps mmo devs should take notice... can't hurt really, and this to the benefit of all gamers if one day one dev. should succeed in this.
I am all for innovations, but would like to see things being perfected with what we have and we not there yet, single/mulitplayer have proven this already with many games that have come and gone in several years, what do we have that comes close to perfection in this genre? Once we see developers actually being close to perfection I hope we will see new innovative idea's come to "virtual life"
But I do want it to be massive and not some instance like multiplayer games, tech will get there, but as said we not there yet.
I have to say this is the best posts I've read in this thread. Question: Anyone got a prediction when the hardware/software technologies will advance to the point of our dream's come true? Honestly the Idea of 3 faction AvP MMORPG sound HAWT!!!!!
I do not understand the desire for an AvP MMORPG, having watched the various Alien, Predator, and AvP movies. You guys do remember the average life expectancy of members of each faction as they come in contact with one another - right? That is a reason it makes a good FPS...MMORPG, not so much.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Would have been intresting if OP would have mentioned how devs could make this happen in a genre like MMORPG where you can expect hundreds of players playing simultaneously on one server, instead of what is obvious how it can be delivered in multiplayer games. AvP is a nice game but to say MMORPG devs should learn from it is NOT what I would like MMORPG developers to actually do. It works great in multiplayer games as we expect it the way it is, MMORPG should offer so much more that it's kinda unrealistic to expect such a limited experiance from a MMORPG. Okay lets say they should learn from it, is it that we want our PVP experiance to be inside small instances where we can do a 16vs16 battle against eachother?
I guess in an MMORPG you can't have the Alien crawling on cielings, or sides of walls... they'd be forced to walk/run like any other class?
Nah not really but read what you say below this.
Perhaps you're right in that making distinctive gameplay differences for MMORPGs might prove technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, as it does in fps games.
Excactly
Too bad, you feel that way...
Ah you got me wrong here, it would be awesome if we could have that in a MMORPG, but you see as you yourself said before it's at the moment technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, so don't give me that Too bad you feel that way cause as said it would be awesome but think about your own words as I repeated them
I'm 50/50 on that it would prove to difficult... but still an effort should be made to find something new that could be implemented in an MMORPG, techincal difficulties asside. I think the OP is just trying to suggest that it's a good idea on paper, and perhaps why not try it for MMORPGs... at worse it will fail, or moderately offer something new albeit not perfected for MMORPG environment, or at best give a whole new gameplay mechanic that could open up and set new trends in MMORPG game designs.
Well who knows at this point what could or might happen, still I do like that he suggests this as a possibility, ... perhaps mmo devs should take notice... can't hurt really, and this to the benefit of all gamers if one day one dev. should succeed in this.
I am all for innovations, but would like to see things being perfected with what we have and we not there yet, single/mulitplayer have proven this already with many games that have come and gone in several years, what do we have that comes close to perfection in this genre? Once we see developers actually being close to perfection I hope we will see new innovative idea's come to "virtual life"
But I do want it to be massive and not some instance like multiplayer games, tech will get there, but as said we not there yet.
I have to say this is the best posts I've read in this thread. Question: Anyone got a prediction when the hardware/software technologies will advance to the point of our dream's come true? Honestly the Idea of 3 faction AvP MMORPG sound HAWT!!!!!
Yeah I wish I knew the answer to that. All I can say is that I hope one day soon the technologies and bandwidth will be here soon. The more I think about it the more I'm excited about the idea.
Again, the only clear reason for 3 factions that is presented is that of population balance and I don't think that's exclusive to games with 3 factions.
It is possible to balance out populations in a 2 faction game, as Aion did close to launch (the 3th faction was a bunch of crap though), though the game still suffered from a lot of other unbalances.
I also doubt whether DAoC was the heaven of balance many people make it out to be, a lot of people seemed to have disliked the alliances as well.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Blizzard themselves came up with a rather neat MMO concept based on the Starcraft universe during one of their april fools. where you as a Terran get a kinda mmofps-game where you rank up and get access to more weapons and machines, traditional rpg-melee-combat playstyle with the Protoss that could play like most of todays MMORPGs and then finally the Zerg where you had a "reborn" system in place and where experience and knowledge carried on from death to death, making you controll more advanced Zerg as you played on - they could otherwise play as an overlord/human-infested "general" that'd take controll of several units of Zergs in a MMORTS fashion.
Blizzard might have been able to, with some effort, fit together MMORTS/MMORPG/MMOFPS play styles into a single MMO game, and I'm pretty sure it would be amazing (and a hell to balance).
Funny how quickly games are forgotten Auto Assault was another 3 faction MMO, sadly this game never really got off to a good start before closing after roughly 15 months
Planetside was one of the few games that keep pulling me back in no matter how badly SOE tried to ruin it. I think the whole 3 sides option not to mention be part of NC, and having access to my beloved Scatter MAX
3 factions are essential in a non-sandbox pvp game.
2 of the 3 MMOs that I have put 2+ years into were Planetside and DAoC (third was Guild Wars). Three diverse factions keeps the gameplay from becoming stagnant, and creates a high level of attachment or faction pride. It also detracts from the typical good vs evil setup and makes things more interesting.
The biggest negative is usually balance issues due to the diverse classes / weapons / equipment leading to one faction being OP and a whole new front for the war - the forums (forumside with Planetside). In some ways this is good for the game because it shows that people actually care and want to see things improved.
We need a 3 faction game again. Pretty much everyone who played Planetside during its golden age era around 2003 agrees that it was one of the best mmo PVP experiences ever.
We need so many more threads about the three realm model - the present system is broken boring and flawed. If mmorpgs realized they could raise the bar above the WoW model and such - we'd have a more developed genre. Too many people are so used to pvp mediocrity - just going out in some field on any mmorpg on any race class combo and just killing the red player - is just old school.
Want to scare the industry? Educate yourselves as to why the three realm model works - why the wild card 3rd realm completely changes the feel of pvp past the mediocre 2 faction model of everything since WoW - and then scare the industry because your expectations have raised.
Raised expectations cost money - and as if we all didn't know by the plethora of failed mmorpg titles since 2004... no one wants to spend more than they have to.
If you would like a solid game with tried and true pvp look up Battlefield Bad Company 2. Excellent title with the gameplay everyone enjoyed from other titles in the series. They didn't screw anything up. They have server support, unlike the travesty that is MW2. The sides and classes are balanced. It's good pvp fun with progression.
Don't glorify BF:BC2 too quickly. The game is nice, but it is still having lots and lots of issues. Really a shame that games release in a beta state more and more.
And DICE could learn from the CR staff of some MMOs, regarding interaction with customers (yes, it isn't an MMO, but considering the amount of work DICE still has to do after launch it isn't too far off).
The only main issues have come from the EA servers and login, minus a few bugs/tweaks. It's leaps and bounds above Cash of Duty.
the point was about 3 factions.. witch the game just made him think about, even tho.. its seen before.. dosent matter if Avp or Cod is great games or not...
i havent read much about it.. but what he's talking about, could pretty much be in work..
World of Darkness... lets just hope its turn's out to be great. hehe,
Comments
I guess in an MMORPG you can't have the Alien crawling on cielings, or sides of walls... they'd be forced to walk/run like any other class?
Nah not really but read what you say below this.
Perhaps you're right in that making distinctive gameplay differences for MMORPGs might prove technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, as it does in fps games.
Excactly
Too bad, you feel that way...
Ah you got me wrong here, it would be awesome if we could have that in a MMORPG, but you see as you yourself said before it's at the moment technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, so don't give me that Too bad you feel that way cause as said it would be awesome but think about your own words as I repeated them
I'm 50/50 on that it would prove to difficult... but still an effort should be made to find something new that could be implemented in an MMORPG, techincal difficulties asside. I think the OP is just trying to suggest that it's a good idea on paper, and perhaps why not try it for MMORPGs... at worse it will fail, or moderately offer something new albeit not perfected for MMORPG environment, or at best give a whole new gameplay mechanic that could open up and set new trends in MMORPG game designs.
Well who knows at this point what could or might happen, still I do like that he suggests this as a possibility, ... perhaps mmo devs should take notice... can't hurt really, and this to the benefit of all gamers if one day one dev. should succeed in this.
I am all for innovations, but would like to see things being perfected with what we have and we not there yet, single/mulitplayer have proven this already with many games that have come and gone in several years, what do we have that comes close to perfection in this genre? Once we see developers actually being close to perfection I hope we will see new innovative idea's come to "virtual life"
But I do want it to be massive and not some instance like multiplayer games, tech will get there, but as said we not there yet.
Heck I agree with most of what you've said, but still the dreamer in me still wants them to try despite the lack of technology and bandwidth... who knows maybe one dev. could suprise us all ... anywho at this point I know it's wishful thinking on my part
this game makes me....
Can't agree more Jon. The three faction set up, especially with completely difference abilities, is a winner in my book. So tired of copycat games where everyone is the same. Where is the challenge in those games?
I think that is the most succinct and accurate review of warhammer I have read
When I first read Mythics plans on only having two "fractions", I really thought that they were really missing a trick. That, and the "realm pride" or "that's my castle you scum sucking hib are camping in" effect of the way land (and castle/towers) were implimented in DAoC (in fairness, I did think that the movable battleground idea would be fun along with capital city sacking - shame the idea appears better than the reality).
What I must applaud is that that the Devs of AvP totally ignored the mantra that the only way to get class balance is to have the same classes (and proved that you still can have fun when the opposing class are totally different). Personally I feel the commonly expressed view that you must have the same classes available to all the fractions is poison to creative gameplay. I loved that DAoC's fractions were melee/magic/both design; although WARs mirror classes works very well giving distinctivness (Sqig herder v White Lion) but at least allowing a degree of gagging of the OMG your class PWNs mind ITS NOT FAIR - crybabies.
Could I just add that an AvP mmo based off the series would be something I could get interested in. Especially if I could start off as a face hugger and grow my alien from whatever i attacked
I also agree an mmo with distinct factions could also be interesting
I think he wrote this in respects to and perhaps as a hint to MMORPG devs. to take notice as the faction/racial/gameplay mechanics of AvP.
Heck, taking AvP and working w/ that, I'm sure SEGA would one day make an MMORPG using the fps version as a base to start from. Who knows. Would be nice though.
/shrugs
AvP Online?
Might be tricky, Preds and Xeno are suppose to be "rare"
Maybe the Terans get to command a squad per player this would make it seem like 5 to one odds for terran vs pred and preds/xeno could be made bad ass powerful
I guess in an MMORPG you can't have the Alien crawling on cielings, or sides of walls... they'd be forced to walk/run like any other class?
Nah not really but read what you say below this.
Perhaps you're right in that making distinctive gameplay differences for MMORPGs might prove technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, as it does in fps games.
Excactly
Too bad, you feel that way...
Ah you got me wrong here, it would be awesome if we could have that in a MMORPG, but you see as you yourself said before it's at the moment technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, so don't give me that Too bad you feel that way cause as said it would be awesome but think about your own words as I repeated them
I'm 50/50 on that it would prove to difficult... but still an effort should be made to find something new that could be implemented in an MMORPG, techincal difficulties asside. I think the OP is just trying to suggest that it's a good idea on paper, and perhaps why not try it for MMORPGs... at worse it will fail, or moderately offer something new albeit not perfected for MMORPG environment, or at best give a whole new gameplay mechanic that could open up and set new trends in MMORPG game designs.
Well who knows at this point what could or might happen, still I do like that he suggests this as a possibility, ... perhaps mmo devs should take notice... can't hurt really, and this to the benefit of all gamers if one day one dev. should succeed in this.
I am all for innovations, but would like to see things being perfected with what we have and we not there yet, single/mulitplayer have proven this already with many games that have come and gone in several years, what do we have that comes close to perfection in this genre? Once we see developers actually being close to perfection I hope we will see new innovative idea's come to "virtual life"
But I do want it to be massive and not some instance like multiplayer games, tech will get there, but as said we not there yet.
I have to say this is the best posts I've read in this thread. Question: Anyone got a prediction when the hardware/software technologies will advance to the point of our dream's come true? Honestly the Idea of 3 faction AvP MMORPG sound HAWT!!!!!
I do not understand the desire for an AvP MMORPG, having watched the various Alien, Predator, and AvP movies. You guys do remember the average life expectancy of members of each faction as they come in contact with one another - right? That is a reason it makes a good FPS...MMORPG, not so much.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
I guess in an MMORPG you can't have the Alien crawling on cielings, or sides of walls... they'd be forced to walk/run like any other class?
Nah not really but read what you say below this.
Perhaps you're right in that making distinctive gameplay differences for MMORPGs might prove technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, as it does in fps games.
Excactly
Too bad, you feel that way...
Ah you got me wrong here, it would be awesome if we could have that in a MMORPG, but you see as you yourself said before it's at the moment technically impossible or improbable to execute correctly, so don't give me that Too bad you feel that way cause as said it would be awesome but think about your own words as I repeated them
I'm 50/50 on that it would prove to difficult... but still an effort should be made to find something new that could be implemented in an MMORPG, techincal difficulties asside. I think the OP is just trying to suggest that it's a good idea on paper, and perhaps why not try it for MMORPGs... at worse it will fail, or moderately offer something new albeit not perfected for MMORPG environment, or at best give a whole new gameplay mechanic that could open up and set new trends in MMORPG game designs.
Well who knows at this point what could or might happen, still I do like that he suggests this as a possibility, ... perhaps mmo devs should take notice... can't hurt really, and this to the benefit of all gamers if one day one dev. should succeed in this.
I am all for innovations, but would like to see things being perfected with what we have and we not there yet, single/mulitplayer have proven this already with many games that have come and gone in several years, what do we have that comes close to perfection in this genre? Once we see developers actually being close to perfection I hope we will see new innovative idea's come to "virtual life"
But I do want it to be massive and not some instance like multiplayer games, tech will get there, but as said we not there yet.
I have to say this is the best posts I've read in this thread. Question: Anyone got a prediction when the hardware/software technologies will advance to the point of our dream's come true? Honestly the Idea of 3 faction AvP MMORPG sound HAWT!!!!!
Yeah I wish I knew the answer to that. All I can say is that I hope one day soon the technologies and bandwidth will be here soon. The more I think about it the more I'm excited about the idea.
3 factions mixes PvP greatly, and since I am a huge fan of PvP I would definately pick a game with 3 factions.
Currently playing: N/A
Retired from: GW, WAR, Aion, LOTRO, Rift, SW:TOR, Vinductus
Again, the only clear reason for 3 factions that is presented is that of population balance and I don't think that's exclusive to games with 3 factions.
It is possible to balance out populations in a 2 faction game, as Aion did close to launch (the 3th faction was a bunch of crap though), though the game still suffered from a lot of other unbalances.
I also doubt whether DAoC was the heaven of balance many people make it out to be, a lot of people seemed to have disliked the alliances as well.
Feel free to use my referral link for SW:TOR if you want to test out the game. You'll get some special unlocks!
Blizzard themselves came up with a rather neat MMO concept based on the Starcraft universe during one of their april fools. where you as a Terran get a kinda mmofps-game where you rank up and get access to more weapons and machines, traditional rpg-melee-combat playstyle with the Protoss that could play like most of todays MMORPGs and then finally the Zerg where you had a "reborn" system in place and where experience and knowledge carried on from death to death, making you controll more advanced Zerg as you played on - they could otherwise play as an overlord/human-infested "general" that'd take controll of several units of Zergs in a MMORTS fashion.
Blizzard might have been able to, with some effort, fit together MMORTS/MMORPG/MMOFPS play styles into a single MMO game, and I'm pretty sure it would be amazing (and a hell to balance).
Funny how quickly games are forgotten Auto Assault was another 3 faction MMO, sadly this game never really got off to a good start before closing after roughly 15 months
Planetside was one of the few games that keep pulling me back in no matter how badly SOE tried to ruin it. I think the whole 3 sides option not to mention be part of NC, and having access to my beloved Scatter MAX
3 factions are essential in a non-sandbox pvp game.
2 of the 3 MMOs that I have put 2+ years into were Planetside and DAoC (third was Guild Wars). Three diverse factions keeps the gameplay from becoming stagnant, and creates a high level of attachment or faction pride. It also detracts from the typical good vs evil setup and makes things more interesting.
The biggest negative is usually balance issues due to the diverse classes / weapons / equipment leading to one faction being OP and a whole new front for the war - the forums (forumside with Planetside). In some ways this is good for the game because it shows that people actually care and want to see things improved.
We need a 3 faction game again. Pretty much everyone who played Planetside during its golden age era around 2003 agrees that it was one of the best mmo PVP experiences ever.
We need so many more threads about the three realm model - the present system is broken boring and flawed. If mmorpgs realized they could raise the bar above the WoW model and such - we'd have a more developed genre. Too many people are so used to pvp mediocrity - just going out in some field on any mmorpg on any race class combo and just killing the red player - is just old school.
Want to scare the industry? Educate yourselves as to why the three realm model works - why the wild card 3rd realm completely changes the feel of pvp past the mediocre 2 faction model of everything since WoW - and then scare the industry because your expectations have raised.
Raised expectations cost money - and as if we all didn't know by the plethora of failed mmorpg titles since 2004... no one wants to spend more than they have to.
The only main issues have come from the EA servers and login, minus a few bugs/tweaks. It's leaps and bounds above Cash of Duty.
the point was about 3 factions.. witch the game just made him think about, even tho.. its seen before.. dosent matter if Avp or Cod is great games or not...
i havent read much about it.. but what he's talking about, could pretty much be in work..
World of Darkness... lets just hope its turn's out to be great. hehe,