The only point I can honestly see is how to Troll a gaming forum. Saying that a someone can buy their way into EVE is not worth the effort to type about. It takes two thing to succeed in this game, diplomacy and quick thinking, and you can't buy either one. Anyone who playes for any real length of time knows this.
Now if you have played before and understand the game, and know how to do those two things, yeah you can buy your way in, but that's the only way.
To the OP, the EXACT reason I quit this game. EVE players brag how their so hard core and at one point an argument on the forums came up about F2P games (Black Prophecy) and Micro transactions. HA! They were so blind, what the hell do they think PLEX cards are?! A MICRO TRANSACTION. Don’t wanna run missions? Go ahead and buy a plex. You could also become a pet to whatever big alliance is nearby as well. IMO joining this game now is a waste of time. It’s become too stagnant, the powerblocks are in place, and nobodies getting any space unless you’ve got years of establishment. I could only imagine how amazing the game was when null sec was still new territory to claim. But those days are gone. Not only that, although this isn’t a revelation or anything, the multiboxing in this game is out of control. In no other game can you benefit more multiboxing than EVE online. The playing field in this game is way too off for my taste. Right now it just is what it is, and that’s a game for the suckers that run 3+ accounts. But whatever, it’s their money, their jollies.
You are incorrect on several key points. While EVE's PLEX systems is a form of RMT, it is very disimilar to a traditional cash shop found in a P2 W game.
Using the EVE PLEX does indeed allow people to skip tedious PVE that they might not enjoy (I do like it BTW) and focus on the PVP which I feel is a benefit. It does not impart on them any more advantage over a person like me who earns his ISK in game except of course give them more time to practice PVPing.
Its understandable if you don't agree with this mechanic and don't play EVE because of it, personal preference of every player.
Now, regarding the rest of your post concerning stagnant powerblocks you couldn't be any more wrong. The two largest 0.0 empires last year no longer even exist and totally new power blocs have arisen to challenge for dominance. In time, these too will fall.
But that's a topic for another thread.
First, good post. No, it’s not exactly like a cash shop like in Dungeons and Dragons, but fairly close. And yes, there is the bit about training those skills for longs periods, but as mentioned before, even then you could buy a character (provided one fits the bill). Regardless, it’s not exactly a cash shop, but if you break the PLEX cards down into finer bits of sand it eventually gives you access to a very large majority of whatever you may want. Also, although I don’t play anymore I do keep tabs, and I’m fairly certain both of those largest 0.0 empires were not defeated through fantastic tactical combat, but metagaming, quite anti-climatic and opposite compared to the impressive trailers CCP releases.
To the OP, the EXACT reason I quit this game. EVE players brag how their so hard core and at one point an argument on the forums came up about F2P games (Black Prophecy) and Micro transactions. HA! They were so blind, what the hell do they think PLEX cards are?! A MICRO TRANSACTION. Don’t wanna run missions? Go ahead and buy a plex. You could also become a pet to whatever big alliance is nearby as well. IMO joining this game now is a waste of time. It’s become too stagnant, the powerblocks are in place, and nobodies getting any space unless you’ve got years of establishment. I could only imagine how amazing the game was when null sec was still new territory to claim. But those days are gone. Not only that, although this isn’t a revelation or anything, the multiboxing in this game is out of control. In no other game can you benefit more multiboxing than EVE online. The playing field in this game is way too off for my taste. Right now it just is what it is, and that’s a game for the suckers that run 3+ accounts. But whatever, it’s their money, their jollies.
You are incorrect on several key points. While EVE's PLEX systems is a form of RMT, it is very disimilar to a traditional cash shop found in a P2 W game.
Using the EVE PLEX does indeed allow people to skip tedious PVE that they might not enjoy (I do like it BTW) and focus on the PVP which I feel is a benefit. It does not impart on them any more advantage over a person like me who earns his ISK in game except of course give them more time to practice PVPing.
Its understandable if you don't agree with this mechanic and don't play EVE because of it, personal preference of every player.
Now, regarding the rest of your post concerning stagnant powerblocks you couldn't be any more wrong. The two largest 0.0 empires last year no longer even exist and totally new power blocs have arisen to challenge for dominance. In time, these too will fall.
But that's a topic for another thread.
First, good post. No, it’s not exactly like a cash shop like in Dungeons and Dragons, but fairly close. And yes, there is the bit about training those skills for longs periods, but as mentioned before, even then you could buy a character (provided one fits the bill). Regardless, it’s not exactly a cash shop, but if you break the PLEX cards down into finer bits of sand it eventually gives you access to a very large majority of whatever you may want. Also, although I don’t play anymore I do keep tabs, and I’m fairly certain both of those largest 0.0 empires were not defeated through fantastic tactical combat, but metagaming, quite anti-climatic and opposite compared to the impressive trailers CCP releases.
You should go hang out in Fountain for a little while. You will find that both of the large 0.0 alliances you speak off are engaged in fantastic tactical combat, albeit in slightly different incarnations, which of course is the nature of metagaming. What you will not find is anyone giving 2 cents of thought over GTC's LOL
Even for those in denial ,all you need is grade 3 math skills to realize a developer does not go from 30-50 people to 500 employees and with only ONE product making them money.CCP has no doubt made a ton of cash from ISK.They have in fact made so much money ,they could afford to hire 50 0employees and start several new projects.Even Blizzard struggles with 11 million players because iot costs a lot to run a game,Eve imo is VERY low cost to operate.
Epic games who achieve a LOT more than CCP does. doesn't even come close to 500 employees lol,and they have made a ton of money licensing their game engines.SO unless CPP has some magical money trees growing on their property,they have made a ton of money from somewhere.
The problem here is MOST if not all Eve players are taking this as a knock against the game they love,when in reality this is a knock about economics,moral,legit business practices and how CCP does business.
If i said this was SOE related ,would it be truthful to say this would be 100x bigger news and EVERYONE would be crying lynch them?truth or not?
I have come out and said i could not stand nor did i trust Square Enix for taking 5 years to finally get after RMT,and i called the decisions to wait so long VERY suspect ,i even quit playing my favorit game.I called foul for charging us to pay extra for extra security,i caleld foul for an xpac rehashing old game material,so some of us CAN admit wrongs ,while some just defend like fanbois no matter how bad the morality of it is.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This plex thing is designed to help ccp make some $ and i don't blame them...
They cannot stop isk sellers from existing that's a plain fact , so they are getting their cut of the salles:)
The bad thing is , isk selling for $ just got almost unbanable , everyone is selling plex , before plex they could actually monitor isk transactions and ban sellers but now .... it's impossible.
Anyway , i think they deserve the $ they are making of plex , the effort this company has put in to make one of the best game if not the best in the history of mmorpg's is truly amazing.
Originally posted by augustgrace meh, didn't see the date on that. Still the fact remains that you can buy isk.
no. you cant buy isk. because if isk was generated the economy would crash and the point of the game would be dead.
if you take the huge 0.0 fleet fights, they are all about isk. it does not matter if someone has more ships or better tactics or whatever. all that matters is who lost more isk in the end. and if you could buy isk for RL cash the game would be ruined.
you and the OP fail to realize something very important. there is not an infinite amount of plexes, and they are not seeded by CCP. they need to be bought by players first! a Russian guy tried to make an impact in a war by spending thousands of dollars on plexes. and the plex market crashed. supply and demand baby, the very point of the game.
Originally posted by augustgrace This does the same as any other cash shop; takes out the skill and gives an advantage to those with money to burn.
No, people with skill make enough isk to buy plexes ingame and play for free remember
eve has 500.000 subscribers paying 15 a month to play making 7.500.000 euro's
now they do this plex thing which the hater call a cashshop
ok use your brain people cause here comes the trick...
half of the subscribers ( for example purposes only) pay with plex
so that makes 250.000 regular player makiing 3.750.000 euro's
and 250.00 paying with plex , which someboyd also payed 15 euro's for , making 3.750.000 euro's
now we add this up ...and ... tadaa 7.5000.000 euro's
So can someone plz explain to me where ccp makes extra cash out of this?
If you wanna go cashshop plz go troll the STO forums or any other mmo cause it's not here.
and before you wanna post about it's unfair and stagnant and i know this guy that payed 500.000 dollar for his alliance .... plz make another thread .. this thread is about wether ccp is managing a cash shop ...all the other stuff is not relevant to this topic.
eve has 500.000 subscribers paying 15 a month to play making 7.500.000 euro's
now they do this plex thing which the hater call a cashshop
ok use your brain people cause here comes the trick...
half of the subscribers ( for example purposes only) pay with plex
so that makes 250.000 regular player makiing 3.750.000 euro's
and 250.00 paying with plex , which someboyd also payed 15 euro's for , making 3.750.000 euro's
now we add this up ...and ... tadaa 7.5000.000 euro's
So can someone plz explain to me where ccp makes extra cash out of this?
If you wanna go cashshop plz go troll the STO forums or any other mmo cause it's not here.
and before you wanna post about it's unfair and stagnant and i know this guy that payed 500.000 dollar for his alliance .... plz make another thread .. this thread is about wether ccp is managing a cash shop ...all the other stuff is not relevant to this topic.
Nice try at deflecting but I'm affraid its not working. I know basic maths too. Look at me 1+3 = 4.
Whats happenning with this system is that the amount of subs doesn't reflect the reality. There would be a lot less subs if you couldn't buy PLEX. Maybe I'll teach you something here, but some people cheat in the game they play. In this case, its a lot of bot/macro-miner used to be able to play for free. Thats money CCP wouldn't get without the PLEX market.
CCP would lose alot of subs if they got rid of the plex market .... alot of people depend on those for their game time, and in this economy its believable that some/most/half may not even be able to pay for the 15$ a month fee ... if they have just one account.
Playing: EVE Online Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2 KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
I have come out and said i could not stand nor did i trust Square Enix for taking 5 years to finally get after RMT,and i called the decisions to wait so long VERY suspect ,i even quit playing my favorit game.I called foul for charging us to pay extra for extra security,i caleld foul for an xpac rehashing old game material,so some of us CAN admit wrongs ,while some just defend like fanbois no matter how bad the morality of it is.
So... it's not possible that people simply see a given sitaution from a different perspective and disagree with you? They must be "defending like fanbois" if they don't share your idea of "the truth"?
Your opinion is right, and anyone whose view differs is wrong?
Wow... little high on yourself, aren't you?
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Originally posted by Nekrataal Whats happenning with this system is that the amount of subs doesn't reflect the reality. There would be a lot less subs if you couldn't buy PLEX.
I have already asked in this thread the same question but... What's your point?
Yes, CCP would probably have some less subs but I miss your point if you are even trying to make one.
eve has 500.000 subscribers paying 15 a month to play making 7.500.000 euro's
now they do this plex thing which the hater call a cashshop
ok use your brain people cause here comes the trick...
half of the subscribers ( for example purposes only) pay with plex
so that makes 250.000 regular player makiing 3.750.000 euro's
and 250.00 paying with plex , which someboyd also payed 15 euro's for , making 3.750.000 euro's
now we add this up ...and ... tadaa 7.5000.000 euro's
So can someone plz explain to me where ccp makes extra cash out of this?
If you wanna go cashshop plz go troll the STO forums or any other mmo cause it's not here.
and before you wanna post about it's unfair and stagnant and i know this guy that payed 500.000 dollar for his alliance .... plz make another thread .. this thread is about wether ccp is managing a cash shop ...all the other stuff is not relevant to this topic.
Nice try at deflecting but I'm affraid its not working. I know basic maths too. Look at me 1+3 = 4.
Whats happenning with this system is that the amount of subs doesn't reflect the reality. There would be a lot less subs if you couldn't buy PLEX. Maybe I'll teach you something here, but some people cheat in the game they play. In this case, its a lot of bot/macro-miner used to be able to play for free. Thats money CCP wouldn't get without the PLEX market.
I think I made my point clear enough you just don't want to see acknowledge it. Its off topic I'll give you that. I think you are down playing the impact of PLEX on the amount of subs though. There would be a lot more than "some"...
Originally posted by Nekrataal @ Gdemani I think I made my point clear enough you just don't want to see acknowledge it. Its off topic I'll give you that. I think you are down playing the impact of PLEX on the amount of subs though. There would be a lot more than "some"...
I have nothing to acknowledge nor I am playing down anything. I have already said that there would be some sub loss. That is quite reasonable guess no one is arguing about but what is your point then...?
'A lot more than some' is not really saying anything. Can you pull out some numbers, data and reasoning for your calculations?
Whats happenning with this system is that the amount of subs doesn't reflect the reality. There would be a lot less subs if you couldn't buy PLEX.
I have already asked in this thread the same question but... What's your point?
Yes, CCP would probably have some less subs but I miss your point if you are even trying to make one.
I've gotta agree with this. I mean, regardless of whether you want to call it a cash shop, RMT, or some other name that makes a person feel better about playing or not, how do PLEX not reflect the reality of the sub number? I mean, the fact that every sub is paid for with real cash remains unchanged. Just the fact that Joe might pay for a PLEX with ISK and Bob might have paid for his sub and a GTC. Net result is that two subs are paid for and therefore, the reality is reflected.
Now sure, if an option like PLEX didn't exist then there might be some sub loss, but that doesn't change the current situation. So, the reality is that "x" number of subs are paid for and that CCP has implemented a system that enables more people to participate in their game. Seems like a win-win.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Whats happenning with this system is that the amount of subs doesn't reflect the reality. There would be a lot less subs if you couldn't buy PLEX.
I have already asked in this thread the same question but... What's your point?
Yes, CCP would probably have some less subs but I miss your point if you are even trying to make one.
ROFL I love how you make up these completely unsubstaintiated fantasy type points to support you're troll delusions. Try this one for you're next Troll, the rotation of the planets proves CCP uses cheap polygons and if they tried to change them it would desrtoy the python code. It pretty much the same as what you're saying here. You have no way of knowing the effect GTC has on the games subscription rate, and the fact is most of the people in this thread are in a much better position to talk about it.
CCP would lose alot of subs if they got rid of the plex market .... alot of people depend on those for their game time, and in this economy its believable that some/most/half may not even be able to pay for the 15$ a month fee ... if they have just one account.
True, but someone in the game is paying for it. Every month all subscriptions are paid by an EVE player. I have money buy a GTC. That is the same as a two month subscription and nothing more. Someone is broke (IRL) and needs to fund his toons so he pay's me in ISK and I fund both his toons for the month. This is why it's not a cash shop or RTM, it's directly linked to subscriptions.
Whats happenning with this system is that the amount of subs doesn't reflect the reality. There would be a lot less subs if you couldn't buy PLEX.
I have already asked in this thread the same question but... What's your point?
Yes, CCP would probably have some less subs but I miss your point if you are even trying to make one.
I've gotta agree with this. I mean, regardless of whether you want to call it a cash shop, RMT, or some other name that makes a person feel better about playing or not, how do PLEX not reflect the reality of the sub number? I mean, the fact that every sub is paid for with real cash remains unchanged. Just the fact that Joe might pay for a PLEX with ISK and Bob might have paid for his sub and a GTC. Net result is that two subs are paid for and therefore, the reality is reflected.
Now sure, if an option like PLEX didn't exist then there might be some sub loss, but that doesn't change the current situation. So, the reality is that "x" number of subs are paid for and that CCP has implemented a system that enables more people to participate in their game. Seems like a win-win.
I guess my point is the sub number that CCP flunt to the gullible consummer isn't true at all. Number of account =! active players by a long shot. Everyone that has played for any decent amount of time knows this, but the fanbois, like the few last posters ( that I've block btw... that kind of forum warriors can rot for all I care) , will die on their keyboards before letting their cherrished game down in any way shape or form. Its that important to them to stay blind to any flaws the game might have.
I guess their point is that there's no flaws & thats the way they enjoy it. (which, to me, tell a lot about them)
The whole thing is a shaddy buisness that feed on the noobs who think they can compete. ( because he's being told so by those same people who play for free buying their PLEX from said noobs) Its a win win for them, they play for free & have more easy target to blow up. The morality of it all is very questionnable though. ( I'm starting to think thats what these people enjoy most... immorallity. They trive on it. Sucking the life of anyone they can take advantage of, but I disgress...
Do I need to say more to make my point?( which you wont agree with. I already know that)
CCP is in on it. Here's the never ending purposefull game design:
Noob >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vets ( & its a fact that all big corps have their established bot miner ops in their own far from the eye 0.0 alliance controlled space, which btw aren't part of the 6000 that have just been banned) >> wardec noob ( with alt corps in empire space ) >> noobs loose ships ( he has no REAL chance in hell ) >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vet >> etc...
One of the lastest events "the hulkaggeddon" is a barely disguised way to boost the monthly earning for CCP. That compagnie have no shame what so ever...
The whole thing is design from the ground up to feed on "the foolish enough to belive" new players. In short, thats my point... like it or not.
Like I said, its a sexy ( not so much ) threesome that does dirty thing under the sheets at night. I'll stay out of it thank you & will not back off if ask what I think about it. People need to know both side of the coin & thats what I did here as I was asked to state my point by those that can't read between the lines of my previous posts. Happy now warriors?
We're still off topic though so this was final post in this thread. I've already said everything I had to say about the op itself. No its not a cash shop, yes is it RMT in a p2p game. Any other game dev would get flame to death if caught doing what CCP is doing.
Whats happenning with this system is that the amount of subs doesn't reflect the reality. There would be a lot less subs if you couldn't buy PLEX.
I have already asked in this thread the same question but... What's your point?
Yes, CCP would probably have some less subs but I miss your point if you are even trying to make one.
I've gotta agree with this. I mean, regardless of whether you want to call it a cash shop, RMT, or some other name that makes a person feel better about playing or not, how do PLEX not reflect the reality of the sub number? I mean, the fact that every sub is paid for with real cash remains unchanged. Just the fact that Joe might pay for a PLEX with ISK and Bob might have paid for his sub and a GTC. Net result is that two subs are paid for and therefore, the reality is reflected.
Now sure, if an option like PLEX didn't exist then there might be some sub loss, but that doesn't change the current situation. So, the reality is that "x" number of subs are paid for and that CCP has implemented a system that enables more people to participate in their game. Seems like a win-win.
I guess my point is the sub number that CCP flunt to the gullible consummer isn't true at all. Number of account =! active players by a long shot. Everyone that has played for any decent amount of time knows this, but the fanbois, like the few last posters ( that I've block btw... that kind of forum warriors can rot for all I care) , will die on their keyboards before letting their cherrished game down in any way shape or form. Its that important to them to stay blind to any flaws the game might have.
I guess their point is that there's no flaws & thats the way they enjoy it. (which, to me, tell a lot about them)
The whole thing is a shaddy buisness that feed on the noobs who think they can compete. ( because he's being told so by those same people who play for free buying their PLEX from said noobs) Its a win win for them, they play for free & have more easy target to blow up. The morality of it all is very questionnable though. ( I'm starting to think thats what these people enjoy most... immorallity. They trive on it. Sucking the life of anyone they can take advantage of, but I disgress...
Do I need to say more to make my point?( which you wont agree with. I already know that)
CCP is in on it. Here's the never ending purposefull game design:
Noob >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vets ( & its a fact that all big corps have their established bot miner ops in their own far from the eye 0.0 alliance controlled space, which btw aren't part of the 6000 that have just been banned) >> wardec noob ( with alt corps in empire space ) >> noobs loose ships ( he has no REAL chance in hell ) >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vet >> etc...
One of the lastest events "the hulkaggeddon" is a barely disguised way to boost the monthly earning for CCP. That compagnie have no shame what so ever...
The whole thing is design from the ground up to feed on "the foolish enough to belive" new players. In short, thats my point... like it or not.
Like I said, its a sexy ( not so much ) threesome that does dirty thing under the sheets at night. I'll stay out of it thank you & will not back off if ask what I think about it. People need to know both side of the coin & thats what I did here as I was asked to state my point by those that can't read between the lines of my previous posts. Happy now warriors?
We're still off topic though so this was final post in this thread. I've already said everything I had to say about the op itself. No its not a cash shop, yes is it RMT in a p2p game. Any other game dev would get flame to death if caught doing what CCP is doing.
So you block everyone that disagrees with you more veemently? cool.
I see your point, I think. You think CCP is evil for having RMT in their game. And then you go off on a big conspiracy theory of really how evil CCP is. Hows that tin foil hat working for you?
Who gives a shit anyway. The game is fun to those that play it, what else matters?
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
I guess my point is the sub number that CCP flunt to the gullible consummer isn't true at all. Number of account =! active players by a long shot. Everyone that has played for any decent amount of time knows this, but the fanbois, like the few last posters ( that I've block btw... that kind of forum warriors can rot for all I care) , will die on their keyboards before letting their cherrished game down in any way shape or form. Its that important to them to stay blind to any flaws the game might have.
I guess their point is that there's no flaws & thats the way they enjoy it. (which, to me, tell a lot about them)
The whole thing is a shaddy buisness that feed on the noobs who think they can compete. ( because he's being told so by those same people who play for free buying their PLEX from said noobs) Its a win win for them, they play for free & have more easy target to blow up. The morality of it all is very questionnable though. ( I'm starting to think thats what these people enjoy most... immorallity. They trive on it. Sucking the life of anyone they can take advantage of, but I disgress...
Do I need to say more to make my point?( which you wont agree with. I already know that)
CCP is in on it. Here's the never ending purposefull game design:
Noob >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vets ( & its a fact that all big corps have their established bot miner ops in their own far from the eye 0.0 alliance controlled space, which btw aren't part of the 6000 that have just been banned) >> wardec noob ( with alt corps in empire space ) >> noobs loose ships ( he has no REAL chance in hell ) >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vet >> etc...
One of the lastest events "the hulkaggeddon" is a barely disguised way to boost the monthly earning for CCP. That compagnie have no shame what so ever...
The whole thing is design from the ground up to feed on "the foolish enough to belive" new players. In short, thats my point... like it or not.
Like I said, its a sexy ( not so much ) threesome that does dirty thing under the sheets at night. I'll stay out of it thank you & will not back off if ask what I think about it. People need to know both side of the coin & thats what I did here as I was asked to state my point by those that can't read between the lines of my previous posts. Happy now warriors?
We're still off topic though so this was final post in this thread. I've already said everything I had to say about the op itself. No its not a cash shop, yes is it RMT in a p2p game. Any other game dev would get flame to death if caught doing what CCP is doing.
What the freak are you talking about! If you want to know the number of active players just log in, it tells you right there. Since I have been playing that number has always slowly risen. This is because it's a great game that's a lot of fun. GTC's are just one small aspect of the game, and while it makes the game better it's just one small part of the game. It's not the reason the game has continually grown at a steady consistent rate since release.
The Game grows because it's a well made fun space game, there is no great trick going on and to say that is just silly.
The thing that frustrates many is they try to "buy their way in", or play it as a themepark and fail miserably, but there are just as many that understand the open nature of the game, the depth of the game mechanics, and learn to thrive in a very hostile and competitive game world.
The only real money transfers are the players paying for game time, just like every other game LOL
I think I made my point clear enough you just don't want to see acknowledge it. Its off topic I'll give you that. I think you are down playing the impact of PLEX on the amount of subs though. There would be a lot more than "some"...
I guess my point is the sub number that CCP flunt to the gullible consummer isn't true at all. Number of account =! active players by a long shot. Everyone that has played for any decent amount of time knows this, but the fanbois, like the few last posters ( that I've block btw... that kind of forum warriors can rot for all I care) , will die on their keyboards before letting their cherrished game down in any way shape or form. Its that important to them to stay blind to any flaws the game might have.
I guess their point is that there's no flaws & thats the way they enjoy it. (which, to me, tell a lot about them)
The whole thing is a shaddy buisness that feed on the noobs who think they can compete. ( because he's being told so by those same people who play for free buying their PLEX from said noobs) Its a win win for them, they play for free & have more easy target to blow up. The morality of it all is very questionnable though. ( I'm starting to think thats what these people enjoy most... immorallity. They trive on it. Sucking the life of anyone they can take advantage of, but I disgress...
Do I need to say more to make my point?( which you wont agree with. I already know that)
CCP is in on it. Here's the never ending purposefull game design:
Noob >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vets ( & its a fact that all big corps have their established bot miner ops in their own far from the eye 0.0 alliance controlled space, which btw aren't part of the 6000 that have just been banned) >> wardec noob ( with alt corps in empire space ) >> noobs loose ships ( he has no REAL chance in hell ) >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vet >> etc...
One of the lastest events "the hulkaggeddon" is a barely disguised way to boost the monthly earning for CCP. That compagnie have no shame what so ever...
The whole thing is design from the ground up to feed on "the foolish enough to belive" new players. In short, thats my point... like it or not.
Like I said, its a sexy ( not so much ) threesome that does dirty thing under the sheets at night. I'll stay out of it thank you & will not back off if ask what I think about it. People need to know both side of the coin & thats what I did here as I was asked to state my point by those that can't read between the lines of my previous posts. Happy now warriors?
We're still off topic though so this was final post in this thread. I've already said everything I had to say about the op itself. No its not a cash shop, yes is it RMT in a p2p game. Any other game dev would get flame to death if caught doing what CCP is doing.
I won't go so far as to say this is off topic as it does pertain to views regarding RMT if not exclusively a discussion on whether PLEX is RMT. Its a tangent, but not a whole different subject.
That said, I can understand what you are saying about active players vs total subs. To that extent, the concurrent user count is published for all to see and the records are routinely posted to these forums. So, I'm not sure there is any plot to deceive. CCP has even gone so far as to publish statistical breakdowns of their subscription base. These stats included the number of multiple accounts if I recall.
Really, I think it is all just a matter of where you are looking at this from. I don't see the noob/plex relation as I have had a number of friends I have brought into the game, I've explained GTC/PLEX to them, and not one of them has bothered with it past that initial explanation. Hulkageddon? Sure, I guess I could understand your view if it hadn't been extremely well publicized that it was coming. I saw it more as a tool for thinning out macro-miners. But, again, that is how I see it and there is always room for another view.
Personally, I don't see PLEX as an inherently predatory system that you make it out to be. Any system, regardless of intention, can certainly be bent and misused and, if any group of people will do that, it's EvE players. But, for the most part, PLEX is a creative mechanism and, in my opinion, does more good then harm.
I'm not trying to come of as a fanboi, though admittedly, I do enjoy the game (warts and all). As you say, there are two sides to every coin and I fall on the side that CCPs PLEX system is significantly different then traditional RMT implementations that it warrants a distinction from them. That said, I don't really care what it gets called. I'm still playing and, if PLEX went away tomorrow, I would still play and that is what is important in my view. I do, however, enjoy the discussion even if we don't necessarily agree so thanks for that and I'll catch you in another thread should you not return to this one.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Comments
Bla bla bla bal bla...
First, good post. No, it’s not exactly like a cash shop like in Dungeons and Dragons, but fairly close. And yes, there is the bit about training those skills for longs periods, but as mentioned before, even then you could buy a character (provided one fits the bill). Regardless, it’s not exactly a cash shop, but if you break the PLEX cards down into finer bits of sand it eventually gives you access to a very large majority of whatever you may want. Also, although I don’t play anymore I do keep tabs, and I’m fairly certain both of those largest 0.0 empires were not defeated through fantastic tactical combat, but metagaming, quite anti-climatic and opposite compared to the impressive trailers CCP releases.
You should go hang out in Fountain for a little while. You will find that both of the large 0.0 alliances you speak off are engaged in fantastic tactical combat, albeit in slightly different incarnations, which of course is the nature of metagaming. What you will not find is anyone giving 2 cents of thought over GTC's LOL
Even for those in denial ,all you need is grade 3 math skills to realize a developer does not go from 30-50 people to 500 employees and with only ONE product making them money.CCP has no doubt made a ton of cash from ISK.They have in fact made so much money ,they could afford to hire 50 0employees and start several new projects.Even Blizzard struggles with 11 million players because iot costs a lot to run a game,Eve imo is VERY low cost to operate.
Epic games who achieve a LOT more than CCP does. doesn't even come close to 500 employees lol,and they have made a ton of money licensing their game engines.SO unless CPP has some magical money trees growing on their property,they have made a ton of money from somewhere.
The problem here is MOST if not all Eve players are taking this as a knock against the game they love,when in reality this is a knock about economics,moral,legit business practices and how CCP does business.
If i said this was SOE related ,would it be truthful to say this would be 100x bigger news and EVERYONE would be crying lynch them?truth or not?
I have come out and said i could not stand nor did i trust Square Enix for taking 5 years to finally get after RMT,and i called the decisions to wait so long VERY suspect ,i even quit playing my favorit game.I called foul for charging us to pay extra for extra security,i caleld foul for an xpac rehashing old game material,so some of us CAN admit wrongs ,while some just defend like fanbois no matter how bad the morality of it is.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
This plex thing is designed to help ccp make some $ and i don't blame them...
They cannot stop isk sellers from existing that's a plain fact , so they are getting their cut of the salles:)
The bad thing is , isk selling for $ just got almost unbanable , everyone is selling plex , before plex they could actually monitor isk transactions and ban sellers but now .... it's impossible.
Anyway , i think they deserve the $ they are making of plex , the effort this company has put in to make one of the best game if not the best in the history of mmorpg's is truly amazing.
no. you cant buy isk. because if isk was generated the economy would crash and the point of the game would be dead.
if you take the huge 0.0 fleet fights, they are all about isk. it does not matter if someone has more ships or better tactics or whatever. all that matters is who lost more isk in the end. and if you could buy isk for RL cash the game would be ruined.
you and the OP fail to realize something very important. there is not an infinite amount of plexes, and they are not seeded by CCP. they need to be bought by players first! a Russian guy tried to make an impact in a war by spending thousands of dollars on plexes. and the plex market crashed. supply and demand baby, the very point of the game.
No, people with skill make enough isk to buy plexes ingame and play for free remember
ok grab your calculators...
eve has 500.000 subscribers paying 15 a month to play making 7.500.000 euro's
now they do this plex thing which the hater call a cashshop
ok use your brain people cause here comes the trick...
half of the subscribers ( for example purposes only) pay with plex
so that makes 250.000 regular player makiing 3.750.000 euro's
and 250.00 paying with plex , which someboyd also payed 15 euro's for , making 3.750.000 euro's
now we add this up ...and ... tadaa 7.5000.000 euro's
So can someone plz explain to me where ccp makes extra cash out of this?
If you wanna go cashshop plz go troll the STO forums or any other mmo cause it's not here.
and before you wanna post about it's unfair and stagnant and i know this guy that payed 500.000 dollar for his alliance .... plz make another thread .. this thread is about wether ccp is managing a cash shop ...all the other stuff is not relevant to this topic.
Nice try at deflecting but I'm affraid its not working. I know basic maths too. Look at me 1+3 = 4.
Whats happenning with this system is that the amount of subs doesn't reflect the reality. There would be a lot less subs if you couldn't buy PLEX. Maybe I'll teach you something here, but some people cheat in the game they play. In this case, its a lot of bot/macro-miner used to be able to play for free. Thats money CCP wouldn't get without the PLEX market.
CCP would lose alot of subs if they got rid of the plex market .... alot of people depend on those for their game time, and in this economy its believable that some/most/half may not even be able to pay for the 15$ a month fee ... if they have just one account.
Playing: EVE Online
Favorite MMOs: WoW, SWG Pre-cu, Lineage 2, UO, EQ, EVE online
Looking forward to: Archeage, Kingdom Under Fire 2
KUF2's Official Website - http://www.kufii.com/ENG/ -
So... it's not possible that people simply see a given sitaution from a different perspective and disagree with you? They must be "defending like fanbois" if they don't share your idea of "the truth"?
Your opinion is right, and anyone whose view differs is wrong?
Wow... little high on yourself, aren't you?
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I have already asked in this thread the same question but... What's your point?
Yes, CCP would probably have some less subs but I miss your point if you are even trying to make one.
yeah would not need bot miner account to support my other accounts
That's is not the topic,
The topic is is it a HIDDEN CASSHOP?
It is not.
or can you give me another definiton of cashshop?
@ Gdemani
I think I made my point clear enough you just don't want to see acknowledge it. Its off topic I'll give you that. I think you are down playing the impact of PLEX on the amount of subs though. There would be a lot more than "some"...
@Horusra
Right, because you can everyone can. Fail...
@Lord_turnip
You oviously didn't red the whole thread, but you can read whats below the line. thank you.
------------------------------------------------
Anyways, I've admitted that its off topic so I'll stop here with this CCP/PLEX/bot miner sexy threesome.
I have nothing to acknowledge nor I am playing down anything. I have already said that there would be some sub loss. That is quite reasonable guess no one is arguing about but what is your point then...?
'A lot more than some' is not really saying anything. Can you pull out some numbers, data and reasoning for your calculations?
Carefull you guys are going to blow up everyones fanboi detector in a light year radius.
I've gotta agree with this. I mean, regardless of whether you want to call it a cash shop, RMT, or some other name that makes a person feel better about playing or not, how do PLEX not reflect the reality of the sub number? I mean, the fact that every sub is paid for with real cash remains unchanged. Just the fact that Joe might pay for a PLEX with ISK and Bob might have paid for his sub and a GTC. Net result is that two subs are paid for and therefore, the reality is reflected.
Now sure, if an option like PLEX didn't exist then there might be some sub loss, but that doesn't change the current situation. So, the reality is that "x" number of subs are paid for and that CCP has implemented a system that enables more people to participate in their game. Seems like a win-win.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
ROFL I love how you make up these completely unsubstaintiated fantasy type points to support you're troll delusions. Try this one for you're next Troll, the rotation of the planets proves CCP uses cheap polygons and if they tried to change them it would desrtoy the python code. It pretty much the same as what you're saying here. You have no way of knowing the effect GTC has on the games subscription rate, and the fact is most of the people in this thread are in a much better position to talk about it.
True, but someone in the game is paying for it. Every month all subscriptions are paid by an EVE player. I have money buy a GTC. That is the same as a two month subscription and nothing more. Someone is broke (IRL) and needs to fund his toons so he pay's me in ISK and I fund both his toons for the month. This is why it's not a cash shop or RTM, it's directly linked to subscriptions.
I guess my point is the sub number that CCP flunt to the gullible consummer isn't true at all. Number of account =! active players by a long shot. Everyone that has played for any decent amount of time knows this, but the fanbois, like the few last posters ( that I've block btw... that kind of forum warriors can rot for all I care) , will die on their keyboards before letting their cherrished game down in any way shape or form. Its that important to them to stay blind to any flaws the game might have.
I guess their point is that there's no flaws & thats the way they enjoy it. (which, to me, tell a lot about them)
The whole thing is a shaddy buisness that feed on the noobs who think they can compete. ( because he's being told so by those same people who play for free buying their PLEX from said noobs) Its a win win for them, they play for free & have more easy target to blow up. The morality of it all is very questionnable though. ( I'm starting to think thats what these people enjoy most... immorallity. They trive on it. Sucking the life of anyone they can take advantage of, but I disgress...
Do I need to say more to make my point?( which you wont agree with. I already know that)
CCP is in on it. Here's the never ending purposefull game design:
Noob >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vets ( & its a fact that all big corps have their established bot miner ops in their own far from the eye 0.0 alliance controlled space, which btw aren't part of the 6000 that have just been banned) >> wardec noob ( with alt corps in empire space ) >> noobs loose ships ( he has no REAL chance in hell ) >> ccp ($$$) >> plex >> vet >> etc...
One of the lastest events "the hulkaggeddon" is a barely disguised way to boost the monthly earning for CCP. That compagnie have no shame what so ever...
The whole thing is design from the ground up to feed on "the foolish enough to belive" new players. In short, thats my point... like it or not.
Like I said, its a sexy ( not so much ) threesome that does dirty thing under the sheets at night. I'll stay out of it thank you & will not back off if ask what I think about it. People need to know both side of the coin & thats what I did here as I was asked to state my point by those that can't read between the lines of my previous posts. Happy now warriors?
We're still off topic though so this was final post in this thread. I've already said everything I had to say about the op itself. No its not a cash shop, yes is it RMT in a p2p game. Any other game dev would get flame to death if caught doing what CCP is doing.
CCP are shady in how they use EVE and ISK to make more money in RMT behind the scens posing as something else offering the service.
So you block everyone that disagrees with you more veemently? cool.
I see your point, I think. You think CCP is evil for having RMT in their game. And then you go off on a big conspiracy theory of really how evil CCP is. Hows that tin foil hat working for you?
Who gives a shit anyway. The game is fun to those that play it, what else matters?
If you stand VERY still, and close your eyes, after a minute you can actually FEEL the universe revolving around PvP.
What the freak are you talking about! If you want to know the number of active players just log in, it tells you right there. Since I have been playing that number has always slowly risen. This is because it's a great game that's a lot of fun. GTC's are just one small aspect of the game, and while it makes the game better it's just one small part of the game. It's not the reason the game has continually grown at a steady consistent rate since release.
The Game grows because it's a well made fun space game, there is no great trick going on and to say that is just silly.
The thing that frustrates many is they try to "buy their way in", or play it as a themepark and fail miserably, but there are just as many that understand the open nature of the game, the depth of the game mechanics, and learn to thrive in a very hostile and competitive game world.
The only real money transfers are the players paying for game time, just like every other game LOL
I won't go so far as to say this is off topic as it does pertain to views regarding RMT if not exclusively a discussion on whether PLEX is RMT. Its a tangent, but not a whole different subject.
That said, I can understand what you are saying about active players vs total subs. To that extent, the concurrent user count is published for all to see and the records are routinely posted to these forums. So, I'm not sure there is any plot to deceive. CCP has even gone so far as to publish statistical breakdowns of their subscription base. These stats included the number of multiple accounts if I recall.
Really, I think it is all just a matter of where you are looking at this from. I don't see the noob/plex relation as I have had a number of friends I have brought into the game, I've explained GTC/PLEX to them, and not one of them has bothered with it past that initial explanation. Hulkageddon? Sure, I guess I could understand your view if it hadn't been extremely well publicized that it was coming. I saw it more as a tool for thinning out macro-miners. But, again, that is how I see it and there is always room for another view.
Personally, I don't see PLEX as an inherently predatory system that you make it out to be. Any system, regardless of intention, can certainly be bent and misused and, if any group of people will do that, it's EvE players. But, for the most part, PLEX is a creative mechanism and, in my opinion, does more good then harm.
I'm not trying to come of as a fanboi, though admittedly, I do enjoy the game (warts and all). As you say, there are two sides to every coin and I fall on the side that CCPs PLEX system is significantly different then traditional RMT implementations that it warrants a distinction from them. That said, I don't really care what it gets called. I'm still playing and, if PLEX went away tomorrow, I would still play and that is what is important in my view. I do, however, enjoy the discussion even if we don't necessarily agree so thanks for that and I'll catch you in another thread should you not return to this one.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence