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Do MMO gamers like any game? ever?!
tidalkraken
Member Posts: 49
Regardless which site I go to, which game I play, or even who I talk to, it feels like every MMO gamer out there just... well... hates MMOs and MMO players.
The second a new game is announced, no one seems that enthused. In fact, a lot of people usually seem downright pissed off. Some drop the usual "WoW clone" comments, many call it a grindfest before they've even seen a video, and if it's a f2p title you'd better believe that everyone on the internet is going to say "it's just a way to get money from us".
- STO launches = everyone hates it
- WoTLK launches = WoW declared dead by gamers
- Aion launches = everyone slams it
- TERA is announced = immediately dismissed as an asian grindfest
- RoM comes out = considered a money pit
- Allods comes out = declared broken and greedy by the general population
- Sentinel's Fate launches in retail = People who had been begging for retail EQ2 boxes suddenly contradict themselves and start ragging on SOE for doing it.
When it comes to MMO players, very few actually take the time to help anyone anymore. It's usually a slew of "lolnoob" and various derogatory comments regarding one's mother, in lieu of a tip or help with a quest. Just the other night, in Allods Online, someone asked a very simple, honest question regarding a quest. Someone who had repeated it several times, that everyone could see running back and forth from start to finish, simply answered angrily "Google is your friend, nub". I would like to say that this is an isolated incident, but we have all had many encounters like this.
Everything is compared to everything else, and gamers want everything for free. When a f2p title like RoM or Allods is announced / launched, the constructive criticism that the companies want is overshadows by an outpour of blind hatred and anger-infused slander. "They just want our money!" many will shout. "They mine our pockets!"
Yes, cash shop prices can get ridiculous sometimes, and for games like Allods I believe that there will need to be some mechanics adjustments (removal of FoD, or lowering the price of incense), but usually if they are discussed in a civil manner, the game developers won't see you as just an angry internet toughguy, they'll actually understand you are an asset to their company's growth and prosperity.
I am currently finishing up a degree in 3D animation and design and putting in applications at Atari, Turbine, and various smaller studios around my area. Guess what? I'm not going to work for free, and I'm fairly certain that anyone working on a worthwhile title is going to want some sort of compensation for their months or years of hard work. The server admins are probably the most vehement about money, since they have to work pretty much 24/7 to keep your asses online! Think they're going to do it for free, because they just LOVE the oh-so-charming community of the game that they helped create? The same community that constantly blames them for absolutely everything that happens in the game, even if it can't be helped?
Why hate every new game that comes out? Why constantly compare it even if it has nothing to do with any other game out there?
Why treat other players like crap?
Game companies need to turn a profit to keep making games / expansions / new content. Gamers need to inform game companies of changes that need to be made. Gamers also need to "play nice" if they ever want to see others in their world again.
I believe that, while vertain developers are not doing the MMO industry any favors, the main problem is player reactions and "ragequits".
Take a chill pill, help out a noob, and stop helping kill this entire industry by being so selfish and, yes, greedy.
Comments
Pretty much sums up how I feel about todays MMO community (and to be honest the community after 2003-04) which seems to suffer from a high rash inducing, debilitating case of "impossible-high-standards-elitism" whose many effects lead some people to have very severe cases of "manic zealotry", or "ignorant bigotry", and in some rare instances "complete historical misrepresentation syndrome". With all joking aside, I myself love many of the games on the market today and look forward to the games coming in the near future. cheers
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
I could be way off course, and don't want to offend or put my foot in my mouth, but I digress.
I think the majority of it has to do with age and the experience we all have in the MMO world. Just from personal run ins, the generation right below me (I'm 25) in a gaming sense is just a bit more rash/kurt and give it to me now now. It's like half of these people never had a dial-up connection and had to learn some patience. Plus, anything on the internet, or anything with anonymity brings out the "I can say whatever I want without backing it up".
Well, looking at your list, I'd say you are spot on and it explains completely why we don't like most of those.
Doesn't mean dislike all games, I am currently enjoyijng EVE, am subscribed to Aion though I loath it (my son and his friends play) enjoyed my time in WOW (before BC) and loved DAOC.
Outside of those, most other MMO's that I tried I not care for due to one reason or another.
Sometimes it was the bad release (AOC)
Sometimes it was because I had tired of the quest based progression, level based game play (LotRO)
Some games were Pay to Win (ROM as you noted)
Some games didn't thrill me though others loved them (COH, GW's)
Some games just pissed me off for not living up to my ideal of what they should have been (STO, WAR)
Lots of reasons, mostly entirely due to my preferences, but I certainly don't hate all MMO's.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
So I'm the only person who has yet to find a terribad community in an MMO?
I also find a lot of MMOs to be fun, maybe not STO, but the rest, ya!
I think I'm just one of those players who is adapting rather than leaving...
"The question that sometimes drives me hazy: Am I, or the others crazy?" - Albert Einstein
I think there is just a particular type of person who not only feels disenfranchised (and mabye even in "life") but also feels like he/she needs to just diss on everything.
But I also think there is a bit of snobbery as well. The idea that they hold something to such a high ideal and that everything else is just "less than".
I went to school for music and I saw it there too. People who were music snobs (some of them being my friends) who looked down on everything that was even remotely popular. Not taking into account that different types of music fulfill different types of societal needs. Doesn't help that music companies seem smarmy and mercenary.
In any case, negative people will always try to spread negativiity. It's what they do. Of course, one needs to be a bit more open and realize that just because someone is saying something bad about a game doesn't mean that there isn't truth to it. But if we keep our perspective we willl more easily see where there are issues and where it's just the usual crowd who just hates everything.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I feel you on the adapting. I really, really want to play a new game. I have powered through ME2/Dragon Age/Demon Souls (well not that one, hard as hell), but I have commitment issues obviously. I want to try out LORO, but never do. Maybe I need to adapt instead of just have my unreachable standards.
MMORPG.com's members seem to foster a lot of this "anti-everything" hate.
Let's end the use of the following words in posts refering to MMO's and their development:
1. Sadly
2. Unfortunatly
3. Broken
4. Fail
I would love to see mmorpg become more constructive and positive.
I dunno, I'm really enjoying my return to Vanguard: Saga of Heroes, as well as my ongoing accounts in EVE Online. I think there's a lot of belly-aching in the community of the MMO genre because we all want everything and we all want it now--or at least the vocal minority would want us to think.
Honestly I think it could be general to say that the people who are enjoying the games they play are spending their time actually playing the games, and people who aren't enjoying things are spending their time complaining about them on forums.
I hear you though, the genre/industry could do with a lot more constructive thinking in general from players, both in how we react to things and also in what our expectations are.
Currently playing: LOTRO, Guild Wars 2.
Have played: EVE Online; Champions Online; Age of Conan; City of Heroes/Villains; Star Wars Galaxies (pre-CU, pre-NGE); World of Warcraft (Vanilla to Cataclysm); Hellgate: London; Warhammer Online; Lord of the Rings Online; Vanguard: Saga of Heroes; Star Wars: The Old Republic
Wishlist: Mass Effect Online
I think there's several contributing factors:
1. Nothing is new anymore. It's pretty rare for any new MMO to have even one feature that truly innovative. So, right off the bat, the naysayers go "same old same old". Nothing will ever recapture that first-MMO-you-played feeling.
2. There are a wealth of options available to a would-be MMO'er these days. In the old days, there were few choices, so you learned to like what you had.
3. I think this is the biggest factor: there is no 100% consensus on what gamers want. What is a pro for one person is a con for another. Look at the list of controverted possibilities; heavy PvP focus or PvE, heavy grouping or solo-friendly, sandbox or themepark, heavily instanced or wide open, twitch based or not, F2P or P2P, etc etc.
The only thing you can be certain of is disagreement.
Since investors want to maximize profits, they want to be as many things to as many people as possible, and this generally winds up watering down the whole thing. With this approach, no one gets their 'perfect' game, and thus, all are unsatisfied to varying degrees.
While it might not be the best dollars and cents decision, I think it would be best for a company to focus on a certain type of gamer and cater the game to them. Try to be the best in that niche.
Good post and I agree.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Your post is funny. It addressed both the cause and effect portions of at least one angle of 'why'.
The populace has changed. What was once territory belonging to a small, nerd community has blossomed into being household name. The common definition of what it meant to be an 'online gamer', much less an 'MMORPG'er has been diluted, and thus, so too has the trust, and compassion between the gamers themselves.
At the very root, gamers are passionate people. It can, and should, be expected that there is a certain degree of expectation, a standard, by which one will stand behind.
But yet, the games themselves are about catering to everyone. Something that older games had, even in (or perhaps due to?) a simpler form that they were, was content and solid game design.
With time, expectations rise, but there can also be many an argument submitted for the angle that the games themselves have regressed in terms of content... that games now being offered give plenty of visuals but no depth, no meaningness of play. In either case, whichever camp one might stand behind, it's obvious that expectations aren't met- either due to declining development or increased expectations, or both.
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
If you judge hate by forum posts. Every gamer is a sociopath
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
I dont agree with the opening post
Unfortunately the users here have a tendency to hit on the target so accurately that we feel its totally negative .The MMO game that are coming out are mostly just not to the mark
I am not the one who gets swayed away by what people write I buy and subs each game and decide for myself
But down the line what I feel is ,what was said before on the forums.
1)AOC - I payed for a few months but then the heavy instancing just got to me .It had all the candy graphics but still I didnt enjoy it
I tried returning twice even after that but couldnt hold on to it
2) WAR- Like many people already had said individual character progression was not good and that what I felt .Tier 1 and 2I had a blast but hitting Tier 3 I didnt feel like going forward.My gamelay is usaually a warrior hack nslash and tank type but in wAR initailly the tanks were so unenjoyable that I played AOE fire class .I enjoyed 2 tiers a lot on that toon but I didnt want to play a ranged class
3) Darkfall - Not a fanboy but i subbed to the game I was in a hardcore clan with vent , but then each day it more like a chore
Also rampant hacks and teleports ruined gameplay for me and I opted out
4) STO - well forums users were right in all that they said even before the game was launched .Actually this is the only MMO I am playing at the moment because I like space PVP a lot Being a Fed I dont do PVE quest I lvl just by PVP . I am just sticking around till something interesting comes around.
5) AION - People shouted GRINF FEST I ignored them .Till lvl 25 or 30 I loved the game but then I found myself every night repeating the same (Fire temple ) instance over and over and over again becaue it gave good x to lv up and then it struck me frak I am grinding .I got teh mnessage after running Fire temple 19 times in a row .So I left.
6) MO - The game is so horrible ( sync wise , bug and technical issues wise) I wuld never dream of paying for an alpha game like this But 1 thing I appreciatre about SV that they have come out in the open with what the ahve to offer and they need player sub money to support the game .In this case (exceptionb) people exactl know what they are paying for it and players decide to support for then so be it but I am not going to do it
7) Free to play gamesnt like Cash Shops, item malls etc Just too irritating.
I personally like these forums better , honestluy it gives me 90% a correct perspective of any MMO game I want but like I said at th end of the day I use it as a reference only
The problem is not with the games themselves or even "old" gamers or now the new breed of WoW gamers as i like to call them.
It's society/humanity on a whole, the Fast Food, TV generation Now the internet/cellphone crowd. They want simple and free..everything handed to them in the game cause they want to do as little work as possible.
As sad as it is this is how most of the human race works, who wants to have a hard game when you have a hard life...who wants challenge when you can have it easy and ''pretend" success has come to you.
Nearly every single game that has come out lately has followed the trend of short and easy with good graphics, cause that is what the people want..and we keep showing it by purchasing the crap doesnt matter what it is.
And the proof is in the pudding, all other MMO's have little sway on the new world of gaming the only one to really do anything has been WoW. Which proves what most gamers and the ''Casual" who doesnt game much, the simple drag you by your feet and give most things to you on a silver platter, to read the strats off some website to defeat boss A,B,C, some magazine or site to give you all the "cheats" a mod to tell you when to move left..when to cast a spell, when to heal, when to......yeah you get the picture.
Yay for advancement in civilization....made a good chunk of humanity into lazy obese whiners.
IMO.. I think one of the biggest problems is that so many developer teams in the industry today have tunnel vision. They seem to focus on 1 form of game play or style, which happens to be their own personal agenda, and then design a game around it believing everyone is going to love their style of play. eg PvP.. WoW is as big as it is because it's simple and it targets many styles until you get to the end (maxed level), then you are forced into what the devs want and desire, RAIDING.. There are just too many different styles of play, and I have yet to run across any dev team that is smart enough, or has the time to design the game I want..
The only game left for me to love anymore is a true and well produced sandbox, but I doubt we'll ever see that anytime soon..
Its the internet... What did you expect?
Welcome aboard the increadible world of Internet forums where people go to whine and call eachother names.
I rally can't belive someone didn't know that...
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I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
RIP George Carlin.
True, publishers and developers have been short on relasing innovative titles, that offer more than one selective way to play. Nothing in the form of social play has been offered in years, it's all based on combat, combat and some more combat just in case you missed having some combat in your game.
I think another issue is players are the exact same way. Players want everything to be a certain way, just as developers do. Right now there's a disconnect between the two sides, be it because developers are attempting to broaden their horizons, or that players are simply sick and tired of the same old, same old.
I don't feel either side is right or wrong. To me it's just another stage of the growing pains MMIO's have been going through over the last 10 or so years. Both are looking for that perfect mix of game and world, which just hasn't been found yet, at least in a way that innovates on Blizzards approach and catches on to millions of people.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I have never heard of a Mmo gamer who did not enjoy peggle...
Make it so...
Very interesting opinion. However! Consider the other side of the coin too.
-I love helping new players as much as the next guy, but "post-wow" I've witnessed the sheer laziness of certain gamers. People don't bother reading quests and spamming chat for solutions, others begging for gear and money and yet other groups not bothering to look up any resources available to them.
Kind and genuine requests almost always get a response in my personal experience (unless it just so happens that nobody knows the answer). The ignorance of "some1 run me threw VC pl0X" is met with little to no tolerance. Sadly the later is more commonly found in games nowadays, but that's unfortunately the "risk" you take when catering products to a younger audience or lowest common denominator.
As far as everyone "hating game X" goes, you need to dig a bit deeper as to why "game X" is hated.
Granted there are certain "buttplugs" amongst us that are determined to bash everything under the sun, but there are MANY good reasons for community outrage in most games.
(and yes, short of EQ/Tera, I own the CEs (where possible) and have played the games on your list)
To go into a few examples:
Take STO, a prime example for extreme over-promise and the just as extreme under-delivery. I will not go into details here, but it deserves every bit of criticism it's getting. Heck, even the media agrees!
Aion, while a bit better, had its share of irritating problems as well. The server problems at launch, constant gold spam and bots. Absolutely horrendous support (ever been stuck in the game world, with no in-game commands working, waiting for days(!) for support to move you?)
"Everyone screams cashgrab!" you say. Well, if a company marks up their prices by 900%, like gpotato in Allods. it is really hard to scream anything else. They had the outrage and hate coming right when that decision was made. RoM's Frogster by the way is no saint in that regard either, feel free to browse their forums some day. In fact, many F2P games are plagued by shady business practices (AO's gambling for instance), it may not be enough for people to drop the game, but the negative feedback will be there.
Much of the hate you see out there nowadays is a direct result of poor management and development decisions. I personally never "ragequit" a game, but there have been quite a few decisions that made me unsub, shacking my head in disgust.
I really wish you the best in your future career, but know that you'll be at the mercy of your colleagues and your leaders in these things. You can create the most breathtaking scenery known to man, but a few screw ups from within your management can lead to the downfall of the entire project. earning it a truck load of hate.
Much like a restaurant: You can be a 5 star chef creating incredible meals, but if your manager in the dining area tells clients that are unhappy with their seating arrangements that they can leave, because "They don't get it". Well... he screws you out of your much-wanted paycheck, despite your delicious food.
i play Age of Conan, Eve and Bad Company 2. the most fun ive had in years gotta be BC2
From the information I have gathered reading posts on MMO forums, MMO gamers like 2 MMOs. They like the game that they can never play again in the form that they knew it, and they like the next MMO that isn't out yet. Because there is no going back to their old game and the next game isn't out, they will tread water in MMO "X".
I love unoptimized game engines, crashes, bugs, and content promised at launch but not delivered. So personally I don't get all the negativity either.
Posted by ViewDoo on 3/30/10 at 12:21:06 PM
From the information I have gathered reading posts on MMO forums, MMO gamers like 2 MMOs. They like the game that they can never play again in the form that they knew it, and they like the next MMO that isn't out yet. Because there is no going back to their old game and the next game isn't out, they will tread water in MMO "X".
Well said...+1
HEAVEN OR HELL
Duel 1
Lets ROCK!
So it's the customers fault now, is it? And you say you plan to work in the industry, yes? You might want to reconsider that attitude. I'm not buying or MMO's to pay your rent, I'm buying them to get entertained. And if your artistic genius is not able to provide a sufficiently entertaining product, then no, we don't have a deal. Come back when you have something worth buying.
I would have to agree with you, this websites community is a very vocal minority, bent on destroying anything they don't like or that isn't catered to them. I think it exists a great deal on this forum because the majority of the time people are allowed to get away with provoking one another and in the end nobody is being courteous to anyone anymore.
I think it has something to do with our culture in general. I spend a great deal of time on Japanese forums and the members there seem to treat each other with a great deal of respect compared to the predominated English speaking forums.
There is also the xbox live complex (or youtube comments complex etc.) that seem to be very present in the personality of most gamers. this probably can tell us a lot about a persons true character.