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Why I call fail-ga on SE for FF14
sdeleon515
Member UncommonPosts: 151
And I'll use my Crystal Ball and say I've played WoW for 4 months and FF11 since NA release on PC and still have it active on Ifrit server with a playtime of over 1,900 days so don't even call the "oh your a WoW fanboy" to this post. I frankly I was disappointed with a lot of calls made on FF11. I'll make it list friendly and some points will only be remembered by some players.
1: "There aren't any RMT but only players with more time to play than others". If you actually remember reading this near summary of what SE once said and the fact that they took 2/3 years to actually address RMT issues in a serious manner then I'm worried about FF14. Now obviously their RMT-related expertise has grown but much like when players told them about Salvage duping, or when Taj told them about the glitch regarding Nyzul Isle, SE has a history of not addressing issues that are rather serious in a manner in lue of the words ASAP. Go ahead TRY TO HONESTLY DEFEND SE ON THIS ISSUE! Can you really honestly defend a company that has been told "hey your game is broke" and they ignore it for 1-3 years? So this is point 1 of why FF14 is gonna have the same failures. No game is made perfect when released, you try to get it as polished as well as possible. But what happens when something does break and they know about it? Like salvage should we expect the "oh we'll find the easy answer despite we knew it and never said a thing about it". At least some games, specifically Eve online, talked to players and its developers to find a proper solution. So ty SE for FF11 but if you taught me anything, you never admit to anything broke and therefore won't fix it if its broke for a very long time.
2: Game economy. Still play FF11? I'm a clothcraftter (100 w/ all items), Woodworking on alt character (91). Tell me is it broke? SE insists on not interferring on the game economy. Here's a thought. Anyone brought a Feral Mask and then they released Walhara Turban and MNK's got a new item to love. How about how items like THF knife drops vs. before. Or how Astral Rings dropped originally (and your old-school FF if you have memories of picking chests in Oz for them). Fact is SE does intereact with the game economy when new items are released or they change conditions for drops. Instead of taking a stance of "oh we don't interfere" maybe you should. Some mmorpgs have found ways to have NPC interact and stabilize the economy ensuring crafters have a market and, even if its little profit, it IS profit at some level. Remember the game inflation with 15M serket rings and 10M haubies? Thanks SE, you still suck at making a game economy that works.
3: I'm Asian so I can say this and not be racist but stop the f**kin' "oh its all about community crap" and stop making sh*t that requires all these people to get good stuff. Why? Because its the law of a-holes. The more people you need, the more chances you will encounter an a-hole that ruins it for everyone. Have someone run away with your dyna/sky bank? Have someone convince the LS leader to give your drop to someone else because they're friends and your not? I can tolerate maybe 18 ppl alliances to do crap. And even if you can find 18 ppl trustworthy to do stuff, sometimes they can just suck. I don't think stuff should always be done solo bit they days of needing 64 ppl, like dyna, are long over (and seriously i know you don't now need 64 but there was a time ya did when doing xarc and lvl'ed in moon so yea w/e). In the end, more ppl = more pain = gawd sakes sometimes its not worth it because....
4: Its not worth it because drop rates are just ridiculous. Want a fair and honest example:R/Ex version of o-kotes in Oz..'Nuff said. Face it why make it very hard to drop overall when it is rare/ex? Maybe try boosting it to over 20/25% drop rate? Why do I feel like this'll be the case w/ FF14 as well. And since we're on the topic of gear lets go to the next point.
5: Can we have more alternatives to how something that's very nice drops? God forbid we have the NAs vs. JPs war again for land kings. Those were ridiculously silly times with each side forcing the land kind to pop on their peak time. Yea I'm sure if we had Faffy and Niddy-clones drop similar items we'd face the same issue but competition would get spread out. I mean can't we have a useless Jormy drop something better? This type of competition may be addressed but there is still antagonism here and we're gonna see it in FF14.
6: And for the final rant what's with the attitude of "well we're out of ideas so lets start fresh". Anyone remember lvling in moon? If you have a moongate pass and used it to exp then let me ask you this, how long was it useful for? If don't have a friggin clue what I'm talking about then how about if I word like: omgz where do we exp now? Instead of improving current content and making it better for everyone, SE just gives up and says "oh here's a whole new area". Isn't that what WoTG is in a way? Better yet ISN'T THIS WHAT FF14 IS? ISN'T FF14 MADE AND PRESENTED THE WAY IT IS BECAUSE FF11 US JUST BROKE!
I 
you SE but its a love-hate relationship. I think you hade HUGE opportunities to make FF11 so much more than it is now and it isn't because you just gave the attitude of "we know what players want". You know what, its nice to actually listent to the player base and not the base that whines about exp grind or "omgz I died, make a more lenient death penalty". I really don't think you've actually learned alot of the lessons you should have from FF11 and why I don't have high hopes for FF14.
The thing is Ff14 IS A FRGGIN NEW MMORPG SO WHY NOT ACTUALLY TAKE A CHANCE AND DO SOMETHING NEW WITH IT? Why not take Eve-online's idea of player-developer interactions as well as their approach to game economy. How about Fallen Earth's reliance of crafting as a neccessity and giving it a good staying power in the economy. How about WoW's approach to not needing so many damn ppl to do stuff. How about you introduce EQ's approach to jobs and lvling and instead of having specific jobs you have career paths that allow for more uniqueness and individuallity. Did you kow mmorpg company CCP choose a few players to work with them and present ideas and explore potential improvements in the game. That's just impressive feedback. What's your venues of feedback? I still don't believe you got my message about the player called "sfgjsldkjf" who I said was an RMT 4 years ago. Your probably still 'investigating' it aren't ya. How about your forgiven if you make FF14 so much more than FF11 and do something special with it. Oh wait you can't since FF14 is pretty much nearly done so there goes that idea. That's why I don't have high hopes for you FF14. Your just basically FF11 re-hashed with improvements and a blank slate. That's the hard truth we're gonna all have to accept and just don't want to. Do I know what FF14 really has to offer? Not really. In boxing there's this legendary trainer called Eddie Futch. He said that to analyze what a boxer does, see what he does habitually and constantly. You know what, I've seen tons of what you've done consistently on FF11. I also know your a coporation. Take these two and it means your not gonna do something special because your afraid of being ahead of the curve and possibly failing. So go ahead and re-hash FF11 into FF14. And for the record you so far are on track with the races and their specialties. I mean Elvaan's not trusting Humes, wow I never saw that coming.
Comments
oh your a WoW fanboy...
sorry, had to do it after I read the sentence...
stop being a dipshit he doesnt seem like a mindless wow drone. However i havent played FF 11 at all (i actaully did play it for bit but enough to say shit). I would give FF 14 a chance once it reaches OBT 50% it will probabbly fail at this point i think. Fans of FF11 will probably go over either way.
LOL.
To the OP... sorry dude but you put way too much effort into calling fail on a game that's not out, barely in beta, and any in-game footage is from an alpha that is likely to be completely different from the final release. Anything else in your post is just speculation based on your experience with FF11.
I'm seriously curious as to why people feel compelled to say how terrible this game is... when it's not even close to being released?
Never argue with an idiot. He will drag you down to his level, then beat you with experience.
there idiots.
They're* =]
And, yeah.
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Front: UNO Chemistry Club
Back: /\OH --> Bad Decisions
You seam to be stuck in the past, holding to some percived wrong SE has done to you or something. One friendly advice...
Move on!
The only thing im skeptical about is the 6-8 party members for a group thats seems alittle much.... but im sure they'll do great like they always do...
OP has fair points, but it's all just pure speculation at this point.
Lets just wait and see how beta goes first before making judgements?
If the only thing SE learned from XI is that world spawn bosses are a mistake, then it'll be a step in the right direction.
I have quite some time in ff11 as well. I am worried about how they making ff14 too solo friendly. Main reason I liked ff11 was because it forced you to work together with your fellow players. I can see what FF14 will be like: all the chars that can solo probally will, and all the chars that can't will be stuck with the shit end of the stick LFP for hours. I know when you check a mob to see how it compares it checks your party to the enemys party. But still.. It worries me that they gonna make it too solo.. and that it'll lose the ff11 feel.
I also hope mithra's don't have such a stupid combat stance this time around.. or i'll just be a female hume.. Yeah I know its not the real names, but SE is kinda fail for using exact same races (Besides Lalafiel) and just changing the name of them.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Taj was the only person to really Beat ffxi, I miss reading about all his H4X on bg forums back in the day. lol
(or maybe that guy who ninja looted Absolute Virtue's N. Sash drop and liquidated it lol)
OP....STOP COMPARING! everyone i run into seems to compare every aspect of 14 to their FF11 experience. from all the info ive read, this game is going to be very different from 11, and you have to stop making comparisons. The machanics of 14 will very likely be quite different from FF11 (or they seem to be as of now) so don't pass any judgement, hell we don't have any soild info from the players yet (because beta hasnt started) so take a deep breath and wait it out, or you can just stick to WoW and call it a day.
Hey never called WoW any better now did I lol! As for the FF11 vs. FF14 comparisons, how valid are they? The one thing is you can say a game is "dramatically different" but your also dealing with the majority of the same talent base, minds and individuals from FF11 aren't ya? Ever noticed how people create and do things in consistent about manner?
As I said before and I'll be more than re-iterate it again if it was subtley putt: FF11 and FF14 may not be the same per se but we'll be dealing with the same people as before for the most part, a game content created with the same individuals who are run but a corporation. And this part is important because very few games try to do the "let's be ahead of the curve and really try something". SE is a business and when FF11 came out you can't claim they didn't rely on their FF-franchise base of players to partake their first dwellings into mmorpg history. I think one of the writes of mmorpg.com put it nicely to paraphrase their wording that you don't want to deviate from what is known to work but it also means you don't want to take chances to see what will be better either.
That's why I don't have the same expectations for FF14 as I did FF11. I mean lets face it, I'm gonna have to deal with Sage Sundi again and that's laughable. Here's my counter question then. For the barrages of fanboys of lovingly await for FF14, how much deviation is there so far from FF14 from FF11? Your biggest line of defense is "the game isn't even released". For people who've worked on computers and software programming, you'll know that BETA testing is the final polishing of a game; its mostly done and needs near real-world gameplay to see how it holds up. But the storyboards, characters, etc are already written in stone for the most part. Having said that much of what's already been released is how different now from FF11? Races, 3 cities, teaming up of 3 nations to fight an "unknown evil". You can even toss in the mirror storyline of tavnazia. Or how about to get it from the FF14 website itself where the powerful city of Ala Mhigo is destroyed.
As I said before you don't have tp be an Einstien to know that the majority of times when someone does something they do so in a consistent manner usually without much deviation. A poster on this website have in their comment when it comes to game making "when someone complains about a game, i tell them try to make a game. Most don't last 10 minutes. The others that make it get lost on how to approach it. That's how tough it is to make a game". When you ask someone to make games they'll always need a frame of reference. FF11 had as its frame of reference its own console games and other mmorpgs that proceeded it. FF14 has as its own frame of reference FF11 and the initial storyline, city-states, selection of races really can't ignore that premise now can it. Fact is because something newer comes out doesn't mean its better (and vice-versa can be said to be true as well). Want a real life example that's undeniable? Hey Windows XP meet Vista, 'nuff said. If SE bothered to actually hire new talent and try something different in its initial settings, you know what I'd admit they would be on to something. But given all the info its released you can't say blindly there is absolutely no resemblence at a striking lvl between 11 and 14. Example, I'm not a fan of PvPvE but even if they hinted it would exist, that would be really be epic given their stance of it on FF11. What if they included mean dwarfs that existed alongside taru and added in an additional race, that'd be something new too. How about a new job class never really seen in an FF franchise before that is mildly interesting. I can only think of pup as being the lone job that I have a hard time thinking of never making an appearance in FF before. AION was released with the critique that its not an original game but does what mmorpgs do and looks beautiful. With all that's out there about FF14, its as if the same critique will be true. Want more proof? Does it suprise you which races live in the 3 city-states? They haven't posted who'll live in Gridania but I can take a guess it'll be a rather short race. And the bio on the races? The Elezen feeling Eorzea being their birthright and not liking the Hyur, for a minute I thought I was reading about Sandoria there.
Defend FF14 all you want. I've seen more talent, motivation and joy from them trying to make FF7 and F8. hell FF7 was originally just a trailer and never intended to be a game at first but made something good there. That's the SE I respect and followed before. They took chances and ventured to new areas. FFX just looked like a begining of a "wtf are you thinking attitude". I mean you couldn't think of anything better for Tidus to be than a soccer player when you were at the drawing boards? FF11 looked like it was the beginning of something new. But we have FF14 now. If SE changed the people in key positions for development, I'd been interested to see what new ideas might emerge. That didn't happen. Oh and for one poster on another site, the idea of jobs determined by wpn weilded is like having your own moogle follow you around to change jobs because people find it a pain (and rightfully so) to keep changing jobs. I haven't played or even beta'd FF14 but I have a prediction for you, expect Carbuncle to make an appearance lol. I think rehashing some things is a good thing though but there is something called over doing it. FF14 makes its appearance with this sense of "well we've fk'ed up 11 so here's 14, enjoy". Wow..thanks for the half-assed effort.
Inversely I am very curious to see why people feel compelled to say how great this game is going to be. Have the lessons of the past 4-5 years of MMO released not taught us anything about Hype?
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"I like wow, I like aion and I like AoC all for different reasons.....the later cause i get to see boobs, but still its a reason!!" - Sawlstone
Bingo..
To the OP - You may not be a WoW fanboy, but you're the opposite extreme. You are so entrenched in FFXI that your whole "reality" is dictated by your experiences (good or bad) in FFXI. You provide a lot of examples of the "problems" with FFXI, and automatically, without blinking, assume that the identical issues will be present in FFXIV.
I for one, believe the opposite. I belive SE has made considerable strides from their first MMO to their second MMO. Whatever similarities you perceive are largely based on the fact you have similar looking zones and the same races. The similarities may end there, or they may not. The point is... YOU HAVE NO IDEA until the game is released (at least beta).
From what we DO know, the combat is considerably different in that there is no auto attack. You actively select your abilities. This is a huge change from FFXI. Additionally, the game is going to be considerably more casual friendly.
The funniest thing about this whole thing is that you CONTINUED to play FFXI for years and years even though you listed all its "fatal flaws." If you played FFXI that long with all its flaws, I'd hate to imagine how much you'll play FFXIV if it removes/corrects the flaws you mentioned.
Everything i've seen or heard of FFXIV makes me want to play more and mo. There's a reason this game is the most anticipated game on this site. You're in the minority my friend.
OP:
Why such a wall of text on such a useless topic? FFXIV = FFXIV and FFXI = FFXI. FFXIV /= FFXI. Can you write about something else, please?
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"Your pride, good sir, far exceeds your worth." -x3r0h
Oldest mmorpg.com member with the least amount of post counts. That counts for something, right?
Maybe you would be better off playing another game than FFXIV? Since your mind is already made up, I think you won't find it enjoyable. Just take a break from Final Fantasy and find a game you like. Let it go.
I'm sorry you feel that way OP. It seems like your negative experience is more for FFXI rather than FFXIV. Yes, SquareEnix is the developer for FFXIV also and I agree that there is a cause for worry if you had a bad experience with the last game, But I would give it a chance before dismissing it all together. SquareEnix might have changed for your sake, only time will tell.
tldr
Thems a lot a words.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Why write a terrible thousand word essay about why you hate something?
Turn off the computer and go outside, or go make a friend and complain about this together to each other.
I loved ffxi just as much as I hated it but I played it since NA pc release, do I want to come to a mmo forum and bash their next game? Nope.
I didnt like Aion, am I going to write a thousand word essay on why I hated it? Nope.
I found WoW boring, I didnt go to the WoW forums and complain that Diablo 3 is gonna be boring.
ANYWAYS!
With the info on 14 we have now, I do see a lot of similarities with 11 but I also see new things. I've accpeted the same old races because like many other 11 fans, I loved my taru. I also like the tribes idea, it might give more depth to the normal old races or it might not, who knows. A more involoved battle system albeit slower then 11 or faster, again ~ WHO KNOWS?!
Its people like you that I would prefer to not see in 14. If you can do so much better then be a game developer. Try not to give the sad excuse of "I expect them to develop a game that is new and innovative for me that I'll love and if I spend my money on it I'm entitled to my opinion". Nobody is entitled to anything from anyone else, if you want something the way you want it, do it yourself or just accept what you have.
IMO this is exactly how the relationship between devs and players should be. I'll admit that SE has a lot of flaws and made a lot of mistakes in running XI just like you mentioned, but I also expect that their reluctance to change anything is part of the reason that the majority of their subscribers have stayed with them for several years. Most of the time players demand something be changed they don't look at the bigger picture and how that affects the way they interact with the game and its community. The devs need to know when to disappoint their players for the greater good of the game.
After reading the OPs second essay length post, I've come to the conclusion he's just burnt out of MMOs. Probably hasn't realized it himself.
SE is building on the success of XI with XIV. I don't see how it's a failure. Business wise, good move. Keeping current and former XI players interested, yet including features that made a game like WoW become a monster.
Take a breather. Expectations can change.
SE must have done something right. They've been able to keep the OP playing for "1,900 days of playtime," and even though he was compelled to write a ridiculously long rant about what he doesn't like, he still has an active sub. I could only hope that FFXIV will hold my attention so well.
Seriously though:
A) Let me be the first to call bullshit on the 1,900 days claim. You'd have had to play an average of about 16 hours per day, everyday, for eight years to reach that. I'd honestly question whether a human could survive like that. Unless the OP was purposely exaggerating, or meant Vana'diel time.
He could be counting his bazaar idle time as "playing" time.