See there you go again with 'Prove me wrong, you cannot touch me blah blah wah wah'. I'm no backpeddling a jot. I AM SAYING I DONT CARE ABOUT YOU. Effs sake, you just cannot understand can you, I've better things to do than chase down a no name idiot. I even said I don't get my kicks out of griefing others, but you see that as backpeddling. Lol, if it makes you feel better *pats carebear on head*.
It stands to reason that if ANYONE had the time or inclination to go after you in particular your gameplay WOULD be affected, you seem to think you are untouchable though with your newb 2 & 1/2 years experience carebearing.
Thought about how many cash farmers are doing so completely anonymously via Plex, so will rarely if ever get banned or stopped? You probably have and do this yourself which is why you defend it so vehemently. I'm not going to spell out how you could use Plex to push real RMT, but no keep sticking your head up your ass and singing lalala 'doesn't affect me'. Then again, I suspect you are just the sort of idiot who relies on his isk income from selling Plex to survive. Anyway, I'm done replying as well.
See, this is where you need to actually read what someone says. I'm not challenging you to do it. I'm challenging you to put forward a plausible method as to how you'd do it. I think you realise, after a little thought, that no it's not as easy as you tried to make it sound in your post and now you're backing away from what you said while trying not to admit that you were completely wrong.
So come on, tell us: your aunt Flo just died and left you 20 billion ISK she got from selling PLEX. How do you "ruin my gameplay for months". Posting the strategy can't possibly be more work than all the effort you're putting in to avoid posting it.
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to post as a) I didn't read every post and b) I have strong suspicions about the motivations and obstinance of the OP.
But I'd like to make a couple points.
1) In RMT transaction, an item is created out of thin air (by the game company) in exchange for real life cash. So lets say I purchase Megacyte. I spent 1000.00 and end up with say 100,000,000 units of Megacyte. I now sell that Megacyte.
The market is now flooded with said Megacyte. The price of megacyte bottoms out. The people who own megacyte lose billions. Miners lose an avenue of making money. People owning modules made from Megacyte also lose billions. Prices get out of whack. Wierd things happen to the Market. The price of Megacyte becomes worthless.
2) In RMT transactions, an item is created out of the nether of space (by the game company) in exchange for real life cash. So lets say I purchase gold (ISKs) from CCP. I spent 1000.00 and end up with say 100 billion isk.
Since I am now filthy rich, I buy anything and everything I want. As I gobble up faction and officer goods at insane prices (cause who really cares if I'm getting the BEST deal or not) prices of items start to skyrocket. Inflation ensues. ISK (gold) bottoms out and more and more ISKs are needed to buy modules.
3) In Eve, if I buy a PLEX for real life cash (from CCP), nothing is created out of thin air. Future playing time is simply exchanged for money already IN the game world (it has to be in a Player's Wallet, already earned). No inflation (or it's minimalized). No bottoming out of prices.
For what it is worth, CCP actually pays a real-life economist to give advice/help with the player Market, something no other game does (that I know of).
We need to start thinking of MMO's as we do music or literature or the movies. There is not one MMO or one game that will be universally satisfactory to everyone's taste. MMO's don't come in one genre just as books or music doesn't come in one genre. Change and innovation is a good thing in the MMO industry just as it is in literature and music, but every MMO doesn't need to push the envelope or be cutting edge to be "good" or fun. It just needs to be good. The same is true for music. The same is true for books or for movies. Music evolves. MMO's evolve. Storytelling evolves. And in doing so, it doesn't make obsolete or not enjoyable everything that's been done before.
Buying PLEXes and selling them for ISK is RMT. It may be nit picking but PLEXes are generated from thin air. It is not as harmful as in some games (RoM etc..) but it is RMT nevertheless. In essence why people dislike RMT is that someone can buy themselves an advantage. ISK is an advantage.
I feel sad how RMT attracts the attention of morons. I saw a guy who spent a lot of cash pimping out his Drake (!!!). Seriously... money wasted. I heard a player had spent over $500 in RoM just to get an edge to PK. I've heard similar stories from Atlantica too.
I propose a moment of silence to those players ...with facepalm.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
RTM this... RTM that... ISK sellers anyone? They are, and will be. And they are the Real harm, as they sell one ISK for Real Money, and no-one in-game gets nothing in return.
With PLEX I get the money, and the other side gets "free" game-time, and the devs get the money to support the project. Win-win-win.
The only valid question is... does PLEX (or ISK for PLEX) give one advantage? The answer is no. No matter just how much ISK a new player has, he will never ever become "Super-Killa". Sure, he can buy an X and outfit it with an Y and Z... only to be blown in 5 sec. It is a shortcut, and it takes a lot of skill to turn it into an advantage.
PLEX curbs Gold S., somewhat. PLEX allows new players to get easier start (= more potential subscribers). PLEX allows the "hardcore" to play "free".
The "fairness" fetish should just go. Life is not fair, laws are not fair, even the best ones, as there is always a way to twist them. And universe at large is not fair, yet it offers a lot of opportunities. Some may waste them, others may use them wisely.
The "fairness" fetish should just go. Life is not fair, laws are not fair, even the best ones, as there is always a way to twist them. And universe at large is not fair, yet it offers a lot of opportunities. Some may waste them, others may use them wisely.
You clean the chess-board with a swipe of your hand and declare "Life is not fair. I win." Right...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
The "fairness" fetish should just go. Life is not fair, laws are not fair, even the best ones, as there is always a way to twist them. And universe at large is not fair, yet it offers a lot of opportunities. Some may waste them, others may use them wisely.
You clean the chess-board with a swipe of your hand and declare "Life is not fair. I win." Right...
Don't forget to smack your opponent up side the head as well....... total win for sure.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
You clean the chess-board with a swipe of your hand and declare "Life is not fair. I win." Right...
Well, dear Sir that is over-reaction . Well, I do agree, that such situations happen all over the world, actually. But that's not the point of this rather useless topic. The point is simple "why-this-darn-person-can-buy-what-I-have-to-grind" (the answer is darn simple - because they chose to part with some money and avoid SOME (aka most boring part) of the grind). Asteroid grind in EVE is quite boring. Especially in the beginning. Please stay on-topic and don't troll.
Yes but something like in RoM. One can spend money to buy uber gear or then waste countless hours of grinding for that same item that drops 0,0000001% of the time. Someone chose to spend some money there aswell. As I said before Eve has the same thing but not as harmful.
You can always say that "nobody buys that many items", but some people do.
And you can say that "nobody buys that much ISK", but some people do.
It still is an advantage. Monopoly isn't that fun when one of the players has two times the money in the beginning. Games like sports are most fun when everyone is equal. Players are trying to findout their limits and their superiority within the game. Real-life money is an advantage from outside the game.
It has so bad ring to it that people refuse to play these games altogether. And I don't blame them. Many of the RMTs are just plain wrong.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Just in case 24 pages of clueless debate wasn't enough, this threadknot popped up on the WoW forums, of all places, today.
That thread!
I mean jesus christ, sure I'm disagreeing with some people here about the secondary effects of the PLEX market, but at least they understand how a relatively simple transaction works.
Ruinal et al., I confess that I several times cast aspersions on your intelligence. I now see that an apology is due. We might disagree about the secondary effects of PLEX, but at least you're a league above those WoW players.
So, wait... if I buy a $15 game time card from Blizzard for 30,000 gold and then sell it in game to another player for 30,000 gold, then Blizzard got 30k and $15 for one month instead of $30, the guy I soldit to got $15 of game time for 30k, and I'm now even on cash but still owe my $15 for the month of game time.
I'm sorry, but it seems to work out for everyone but me. I don't like it.
I'm kidding.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The PLEX system has actually increased the value of isk as it has effectively eliminated RMT as a viable business. GMs reverese all transactions performed by known RMT accounts. This makes mining, as lame as it is, a viable gameplay option. Still loads of macros out there, but at least there isn't as much isk spamming.
As far as purchasing trained characters, fine. Let them. I've met some real idiots who bought old characters and lost everything thinking they were good cause they had loads of SP. You have to know what you're doing with what you have in order to be useful and all skills end at lvl 5 so you can only get so good in terms of skill training.
I didnt like it either when I read you could trade timecard codes ingame for ISK. I know it doesnt hurt economy and in a way its nice to be able to play for free. But for the person who buys his ISK with it, I do think its simply cheating.
The whole argument about that it doesnt really give an advantage to the person who buys ISK, is moot. The person wouldnt buy the ISK if it wasnt to his/her advantage (he pays rl money to avoid something ingame). I see ISK as an asset ingame (or something you can buy assets with), so I can understand the reasoning why people say its RMT.
Also, CCP doesnt have to make a profit from it for it to be RMT.
No matter how much you think about it, it still rakes in more money for CCP = they don't really mind as long as it gives them money. Besides, at least you can get into the game faster.
Nice troll, kid. Now get off your butt and go home.
I didnt like it either when I read you could trade timecard codes ingame for ISK. I know it doesnt hurt economy and in a way its nice to be able to play for free. But for the person who buys his ISK with it, I do think its simply cheating.
The whole argument about that it doesnt really give an advantage to the person who buys ISK, is moot. The person wouldnt buy the ISK if it wasnt to his/her advantage (he pays rl money to avoid something ingame). I see ISK as an asset ingame (or something you can buy assets with), so I can understand the reasoning why people say its RMT.
Also, CCP doesnt have to make a profit from it for it to be RMT.
Of course it gives an advantage. The point that people are trying to make is that it is impractical to try and buy an overwhelming advantage.
No-one is trying to say that the PLEX system isn't a form of RMT. The argument is that it is a form of RMT that reduces or evades many of the harmful effects associated with "normal" gold-seller style RMT, as well as producing some positive effects (cash-poor, time-rich players can play for free).
Why this is so hard for some people to understand escapes me.
I didnt like it either when I read you could trade timecard codes ingame for ISK. I know it doesnt hurt economy and in a way its nice to be able to play for free. But for the person who buys his ISK with it, I do think its simply cheating.
The whole argument about that it doesnt really give an advantage to the person who buys ISK, is moot. The person wouldnt buy the ISK if it wasnt to his/her advantage (he pays rl money to avoid something ingame). I see ISK as an asset ingame (or something you can buy assets with), so I can understand the reasoning why people say its RMT.
Also, CCP doesnt have to make a profit from it for it to be RMT.
Of course it gives an advantage. The point that people are trying to make is that it is impractical to try and buy an overwhelming advantage.
No-one is trying to say that the PLEX system isn't a form of RMT. The argument is that it is a form of RMT that reduces or evades many of the harmful effects associated with "normal" gold-seller style RMT, as well as producing some positive effects (cash-poor, time-rich players can play for free).
Why this is so hard for some people to understand escapes me.
Because RMT is evil... Duh!
There is a crusade against RMT, and you are either with them, or part of the evil conspiracy. Your explaination of 'good' RMT is a sin against god, and for that you will be smote down!!!!
i.e. Dont try to use logic to explain something that people dont want to hear... because they are not actually listening (except to tell you that you are wrong).
As someone pointed out on one of the many pages of this thread...
The PLEX isn't making ISK, it's moving it around....
Theoretically, you could see more PLEX on the market than there is ISK to buy it all (At the current price), and since the value drops as more PLEX become available... you'd eventually hit a point where it isn't worth it for a player to put it on the market. Buying it from CCP to use it on your account wouldn't make much sense as you pay a $2 dollar premium on every PLEX instead of the standard subscription cost.
Instead of fighting ISK sellers and the "black market", CCP's use/authorization of PLEX has brought the majority of "black market" users into their system.
The prices are comparable, if not better, than many "Buy ISK" websites, but the most important factor is that the transactions within CCP's system are considered safe. This eliminates the majority of police-work and investigation that CCP would have had to do to stop the "black market" transactions, and they make a profit. This has also caused increased work for the "sellers" to stay in business and be competitive... and really all they get is the few individuals who want the 50-150 million ISK more than the current PLEX market price.
Which.. in all honesty isn't much better.
I also see another benefit... This is helping CCP find/target the money-making areas of the game and keep them in check with greater ease. Players that make ISK to buy PLEX and play for free, and the ISK-Sellers who try to sell the ISK at better rate than the going market value of PLEX.
CCP could throttle those ISK-making areas and help control their market, and always have it in their favor.
Which is very illegal in real life... if I remember correctly... but in these digital worlds there is no rule against that.
A quick thought... the money CCP takes in from PLEX can be used to buy ISK from the ISK-sellers, keep track of the individuals that trade, and track how the ISK changed hands and capture/ban everyone that was involved in one sweep. Might nto be a good use of the money, and i'm not sure they would ban... probably just track and maybe give them connection issues to stop/slow their ISK farming.
I didnt like it either when I read you could trade timecard codes ingame for ISK. I know it doesnt hurt economy and in a way its nice to be able to play for free. But for the person who buys his ISK with it, I do think its simply cheating.
The whole argument about that it doesnt really give an advantage to the person who buys ISK, is moot. The person wouldnt buy the ISK if it wasnt to his/her advantage (he pays rl money to avoid something ingame). I see ISK as an asset ingame (or something you can buy assets with), so I can understand the reasoning why people say its RMT.
Also, CCP doesnt have to make a profit from it for it to be RMT.
Of course it gives an advantage. The point that people are trying to make is that it is impractical to try and buy an overwhelming advantage.
No-one is trying to say that the PLEX system isn't a form of RMT. The argument is that it is a form of RMT that reduces or evades many of the harmful effects associated with "normal" gold-seller style RMT, as well as producing some positive effects (cash-poor, time-rich players can play for free).
Why this is so hard for some people to understand escapes me.
Because RMT is evil... Duh!
There is a crusade against RMT, and you are either with them, or part of the evil conspiracy. Your explaination of 'good' RMT is a sin against god, and for that you will be smote down!!!!
i.e. Dont try to use logic to explain something that people dont want to hear... because they are not actually listening (except to tell you that you are wrong).
Yet another parallel with the "War On Drugs". Any attempt at a rational analysis is immediately drowned out by hysterical moral panic.
There is a crusade against RMT, and you are either with them, or part of the evil conspiracy. Your explaination of 'good' RMT is a sin against god, and for that you will be smote down!!!!
i.e. Dont try to use logic to explain something that people dont want to hear... because they are not actually listening (except to tell you that you are wrong).
Um, then any game company making money in any way, ie charging for the box, monthly subscription or having a cash shop is guilty of RMT?
I don't think so, these companies are the ones that own the games they run, they give us lisences to play in them in return for money, however it is garnered.
RMT however, is using the games to make money for the RMters themselves, they do nothing to keep the game alive, they actually hurt the economies and the communities of the games they leech off. They often practice fraud using stolen credit card information to pay for subs, which then get charged back when the unauthorised charges are discovered by the real card holders, thus making more work for the companies that run the games and increasing their costs to run the games. They also tend to rip off those foolish enough to use their services by various means. These are the reasons why there is a crusade against RMT, and rightly so.
I think any definition of RMT that includes the actual owners of the games is a little silly tbh, as long as its done openly and not some back door operation, as you would then be denying them any way of getting income to keep the games alive.
Just to clarify, i do not see CCP selling plex as a backdoor operation, they openly advertise it and its part of their strategy to combat RMT in Eve Online.
By the way, religious discussion is for another forum.
Comments
See, this is where you need to actually read what someone says. I'm not challenging you to do it. I'm challenging you to put forward a plausible method as to how you'd do it. I think you realise, after a little thought, that no it's not as easy as you tried to make it sound in your post and now you're backing away from what you said while trying not to admit that you were completely wrong.
So come on, tell us: your aunt Flo just died and left you 20 billion ISK she got from selling PLEX. How do you "ruin my gameplay for months". Posting the strategy can't possibly be more work than all the effort you're putting in to avoid posting it.
PS That's 3 & 1/2 years of noob carebearing tyvm.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
I'm not sure why I'm bothering to post as a) I didn't read every post and b) I have strong suspicions about the motivations and obstinance of the OP.
But I'd like to make a couple points.
1) In RMT transaction, an item is created out of thin air (by the game company) in exchange for real life cash. So lets say I purchase Megacyte. I spent 1000.00 and end up with say 100,000,000 units of Megacyte. I now sell that Megacyte.
The market is now flooded with said Megacyte. The price of megacyte bottoms out. The people who own megacyte lose billions. Miners lose an avenue of making money. People owning modules made from Megacyte also lose billions. Prices get out of whack. Wierd things happen to the Market. The price of Megacyte becomes worthless.
2) In RMT transactions, an item is created out of the nether of space (by the game company) in exchange for real life cash. So lets say I purchase gold (ISKs) from CCP. I spent 1000.00 and end up with say 100 billion isk.
Since I am now filthy rich, I buy anything and everything I want. As I gobble up faction and officer goods at insane prices (cause who really cares if I'm getting the BEST deal or not) prices of items start to skyrocket. Inflation ensues. ISK (gold) bottoms out and more and more ISKs are needed to buy modules.
3) In Eve, if I buy a PLEX for real life cash (from CCP), nothing is created out of thin air. Future playing time is simply exchanged for money already IN the game world (it has to be in a Player's Wallet, already earned). No inflation (or it's minimalized). No bottoming out of prices.
For what it is worth, CCP actually pays a real-life economist to give advice/help with the player Market, something no other game does (that I know of).
Buying PLEXes and selling them for ISK is RMT. It may be nit picking but PLEXes are generated from thin air. It is not as harmful as in some games (RoM etc..) but it is RMT nevertheless. In essence why people dislike RMT is that someone can buy themselves an advantage. ISK is an advantage.
I feel sad how RMT attracts the attention of morons. I saw a guy who spent a lot of cash pimping out his Drake (!!!). Seriously... money wasted. I heard a player had spent over $500 in RoM just to get an edge to PK. I've heard similar stories from Atlantica too.
I propose a moment of silence to those players ...with facepalm.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
RTM this... RTM that... ISK sellers anyone? They are, and will be. And they are the Real harm, as they sell one ISK for Real Money, and no-one in-game gets nothing in return.
With PLEX I get the money, and the other side gets "free" game-time, and the devs get the money to support the project. Win-win-win.
The only valid question is... does PLEX (or ISK for PLEX) give one advantage? The answer is no. No matter just how much ISK a new player has, he will never ever become "Super-Killa". Sure, he can buy an X and outfit it with an Y and Z... only to be blown in 5 sec. It is a shortcut, and it takes a lot of skill to turn it into an advantage.
PLEX curbs Gold S., somewhat. PLEX allows new players to get easier start (= more potential subscribers). PLEX allows the "hardcore" to play "free".
The "fairness" fetish should just go. Life is not fair, laws are not fair, even the best ones, as there is always a way to twist them. And universe at large is not fair, yet it offers a lot of opportunities. Some may waste them, others may use them wisely.
You clean the chess-board with a swipe of your hand and declare "Life is not fair. I win." Right...
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Don't forget to smack your opponent up side the head as well....... total win for sure.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Please refrain from personal attacks, be nice
.
Really? This thread is still going? really? come on.... really? I mean really? Eve = cash shop? really? seriously?
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
Well, dear Sir that is over-reaction
. Well, I do agree, that such situations happen all over the world, actually. But that's not the point of this rather useless topic. The point is simple "why-this-darn-person-can-buy-what-I-have-to-grind" (the answer is darn simple - because they chose to part with some money and avoid SOME (aka most boring part) of the grind). Asteroid grind in EVE is quite boring. Especially in the beginning. Please stay on-topic and don't troll.
Yes but something like in RoM. One can spend money to buy uber gear or then waste countless hours of grinding for that same item that drops 0,0000001% of the time. Someone chose to spend some money there aswell. As I said before Eve has the same thing but not as harmful.
You can always say that "nobody buys that many items", but some people do.
And you can say that "nobody buys that much ISK", but some people do.
It still is an advantage. Monopoly isn't that fun when one of the players has two times the money in the beginning. Games like sports are most fun when everyone is equal. Players are trying to findout their limits and their superiority within the game. Real-life money is an advantage from outside the game.
It has so bad ring to it that people refuse to play these games altogether. And I don't blame them. Many of the RMTs are just plain wrong.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Just in case 24 pages of clueless debate wasn't enough, this threadknot popped up on the WoW forums, of all places, today.
That thread!
I mean jesus christ, sure I'm disagreeing with some people here about the secondary effects of the PLEX market, but at least they understand how a relatively simple transaction works.
Ruinal et al., I confess that I several times cast aspersions on your intelligence. I now see that an apology is due. We might disagree about the secondary effects of PLEX, but at least you're a league above those WoW players.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Those people are even more out of touch than most of you guys.
Its pathetic.
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
So, wait... if I buy a $15 game time card from Blizzard for 30,000 gold and then sell it in game to another player for 30,000 gold, then Blizzard got 30k and $15 for one month instead of $30, the guy I soldit to got $15 of game time for 30k, and I'm now even on cash but still owe my $15 for the month of game time.
I'm sorry, but it seems to work out for everyone but me. I don't like it.
I'm kidding.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
The PLEX system has actually increased the value of isk as it has effectively eliminated RMT as a viable business. GMs reverese all transactions performed by known RMT accounts. This makes mining, as lame as it is, a viable gameplay option. Still loads of macros out there, but at least there isn't as much isk spamming.
As far as purchasing trained characters, fine. Let them. I've met some real idiots who bought old characters and lost everything thinking they were good cause they had loads of SP. You have to know what you're doing with what you have in order to be useful and all skills end at lvl 5 so you can only get so good in terms of skill training.
I didnt like it either when I read you could trade timecard codes ingame for ISK. I know it doesnt hurt economy and in a way its nice to be able to play for free. But for the person who buys his ISK with it, I do think its simply cheating.
The whole argument about that it doesnt really give an advantage to the person who buys ISK, is moot. The person wouldnt buy the ISK if it wasnt to his/her advantage (he pays rl money to avoid something ingame). I see ISK as an asset ingame (or something you can buy assets with), so I can understand the reasoning why people say its RMT.
Also, CCP doesnt have to make a profit from it for it to be RMT.
LOL yeah I'm sure the RTM shops would agree!
Thats completely besides the point whether you should call it RMT or not. Its RMT because you buy ingame things with rl money.
No matter how much you think about it, it still rakes in more money for CCP = they don't really mind as long as it gives them money. Besides, at least you can get into the game faster.
Nice troll, kid. Now get off your butt and go home.
Of course it gives an advantage. The point that people are trying to make is that it is impractical to try and buy an overwhelming advantage.
No-one is trying to say that the PLEX system isn't a form of RMT. The argument is that it is a form of RMT that reduces or evades many of the harmful effects associated with "normal" gold-seller style RMT, as well as producing some positive effects (cash-poor, time-rich players can play for free).
Why this is so hard for some people to understand escapes me.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Because RMT is evil... Duh!
There is a crusade against RMT, and you are either with them, or part of the evil conspiracy. Your explaination of 'good' RMT is a sin against god, and for that you will be smote down!!!!
i.e. Dont try to use logic to explain something that people dont want to hear... because they are not actually listening (except to tell you that you are wrong).
As someone pointed out on one of the many pages of this thread...
The PLEX isn't making ISK, it's moving it around....
Theoretically, you could see more PLEX on the market than there is ISK to buy it all (At the current price), and since the value drops as more PLEX become available... you'd eventually hit a point where it isn't worth it for a player to put it on the market. Buying it from CCP to use it on your account wouldn't make much sense as you pay a $2 dollar premium on every PLEX instead of the standard subscription cost.
Instead of fighting ISK sellers and the "black market", CCP's use/authorization of PLEX has brought the majority of "black market" users into their system.
The prices are comparable, if not better, than many "Buy ISK" websites, but the most important factor is that the transactions within CCP's system are considered safe. This eliminates the majority of police-work and investigation that CCP would have had to do to stop the "black market" transactions, and they make a profit. This has also caused increased work for the "sellers" to stay in business and be competitive... and really all they get is the few individuals who want the 50-150 million ISK more than the current PLEX market price.
Which.. in all honesty isn't much better.
I also see another benefit... This is helping CCP find/target the money-making areas of the game and keep them in check with greater ease. Players that make ISK to buy PLEX and play for free, and the ISK-Sellers who try to sell the ISK at better rate than the going market value of PLEX.
CCP could throttle those ISK-making areas and help control their market, and always have it in their favor.
Which is very illegal in real life... if I remember correctly... but in these digital worlds there is no rule against that.
A quick thought... the money CCP takes in from PLEX can be used to buy ISK from the ISK-sellers, keep track of the individuals that trade, and track how the ISK changed hands and capture/ban everyone that was involved in one sweep. Might nto be a good use of the money, and i'm not sure they would ban... probably just track and maybe give them connection issues to stop/slow their ISK farming.
Yet another parallel with the "War On Drugs". Any attempt at a rational analysis is immediately drowned out by hysterical moral panic.
Give me liberty or give me lasers
Um, then any game company making money in any way, ie charging for the box, monthly subscription or having a cash shop is guilty of RMT?
I don't think so, these companies are the ones that own the games they run, they give us lisences to play in them in return for money, however it is garnered.
RMT however, is using the games to make money for the RMters themselves, they do nothing to keep the game alive, they actually hurt the economies and the communities of the games they leech off. They often practice fraud using stolen credit card information to pay for subs, which then get charged back when the unauthorised charges are discovered by the real card holders, thus making more work for the companies that run the games and increasing their costs to run the games. They also tend to rip off those foolish enough to use their services by various means. These are the reasons why there is a crusade against RMT, and rightly so.
I think any definition of RMT that includes the actual owners of the games is a little silly tbh, as long as its done openly and not some back door operation, as you would then be denying them any way of getting income to keep the games alive.
Just to clarify, i do not see CCP selling plex as a backdoor operation, they openly advertise it and its part of their strategy to combat RMT in Eve Online.
By the way, religious discussion is for another forum.
F2P/P2P excellent thread.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/282517/F2P-An-Engineers-perspective.html