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Star Wars: The Old Republic: Friday Update: Game vs. World and Community
MikeB
Community ManagerAdministrator RarePosts: 6,555
As Community Manager here at MMORPG.com, this week's Friday Update for Star Wars: The Old Republic touches on a subject dear to my heart: community! D'uh!
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This week's update is a new developer blog from Principal Lead Systems Designer Damion Schubert, who opens up by discussing the often controversial topic of MMO design philosophies: i.e. designing a "game" vs. a "world":
Massively multiplayer games are not new. The first true massively multiplayer game was a text-only virtual world called MUD, put together by Richard Bartle and Roy Trubshaw in 1978. This little window of dizzying text descriptions was a far cry visually from the seductively lush 3D virtual worlds of today, but it was enough. Enough to get the genre started, and enough to get armchair designers across the world to imagine the possibilities, and debate philosophical matters of game design. One of these questions, still asked today, is whether or not massively multiplayer environments should strive to be games or to be worlds.
Advocates of the world philosophy see the space as a simulation or a sandbox. Fans of this viewpoint favor freedom and realism above all else – players have the ability to use and abuse almost anything around them, including other players. In ‘world’ MMOs, players tend to have a wide range of possible actions, most of which have relatively little depth. The depth of the world MMO comes from the interactions – players are urged to explore the world, and to find their own fun. The world MMO hates artificial constraints like classes or level requirements.
The game philosophy is quite the opposite, of course. Advocates of this view favor fun and balance more than anything. The game MMO is often described as being more like a theme park than a virtual world – player activity is tightly controlled, in such a way to help maximize the chance the player will have a fun, balanced and interesting combat experience and, in general, not be nasty to each other. The game MMO has no problem with introducing arbitrary rules to provide a tight, visceral gaming experience. Players can perform fewer actions, but these actions tend to have greater depth (such as a deeper, more balanced combat game).
In the end, Damion takes issue with both philosophies.With worlds, Damion finds these games can be much more harsh, less forgiving, and hard for newer players to get into. They are only as "good as the people who arrived before you." This makes designers nervous.
On the other hand, MMORPGs designed as "games" also have issues, mainly the lack of freedom, which is really the hallmark of MMOs.
So how does Star Wars: The Old Republic fall with regards to these two design philosophies? According to Damion, the game will be in the middle of the road, with the aim of utilizing the strength of both design philosophies, more specifically, providing "a directed and balanced game experience inside a lush, free-form Star Wars world."
This is where Damion gets into that whole "Community" bit, something he feels has been missing in the game vs. world debate, and he goes on to describe how BioWare will be addressing this key third element with Star Wars: The Old Republic:
Community is the crazy notion that massively multiplayer games are more interesting when other players matter. Advocates of this viewpoint savor competition and cooperation above all else. Community-driven players want, above all else, to be able to interact and gather with other players, in a civil way. They share ideals with the other schools of thought: community-driven players tend to value balance and fairness, but they also want the freedom to express themselves and interact with others.
To me, as an MMO designer, community is the whole ball of wax. Let’s face it, if you wanted to play just a ‘game’, you’d be off playing a single player roleplaying game. If you wanted a ‘world’, maybe you’d play a life-simulation game. But community – well, that’s the whole ‘massively multiplayer’ part of MMO. When you look at it this way, ‘community’ is at least as important as ‘game’ or ‘world’ in this debate.
And probably more so.
Consider our multiplayer dialogue system. The Old Republic is in every way shape and form an MMO, though if a player desires to, they can solo all the way to max level – they'll be missing some great content, but we don’t want players to feel they have to group. But we really want them to want to. As such, this has been an area of ripe experimentation for us, and has led us down some fruitful paths. Multiplayer conversations, where players can cooperate or compete to respond, has proven to be fun (and often hilariously so), in our playtesting (and no, another player cannot jack your dark side score with his response). But we’re not satisfied with just extrinsic rewards – we’re now experimenting with rewards that are unlocked for helping party members with class quest objectives, and we’re generally pleased with how it’s playing.
Damion also discusses community even with regards to crafting, he admits that the team has been unhappy with their various crafting implementations as they found players would be crafting almost exclusively for themselves. The intention is for dedicated crafters to be able to carve out a niche in their particular community and make a name for themselves. Such words bring up happy memories of my favorite crafters in Star Wars Galaxies to mind, unfortunately we'll have to wait for a future letter to hear more about BioWare's crafting plans.
Damion closes out the letter by promising that we'll be hearing tons more from the various game designers in the coming months as they lockdown features and become comfortable talking about them. BioWare has stated they do not talk about things they aren't 100% sure are in, and this could explain the limited scope of coverage we've seen thus far. Perhaps now that the game is further along, and continues to chug further along, we'll be hearing more and more about the game's features.
View the original dev blog entry here.
I have a good feeling that Damion's words here about community will resonate strongly with the MMORPG.com community. What are your thoughts? Let us know in the comments below!
Comments
Yeah. Just try to tell me BioWare doesn't know what they're doing. Excellent dev blog.
I was just about to Tip this article, you beat me by a few minutes Mike :P
Great read, I am really looking forward to TOR and I have complete faith in Bioware to develop an amazing Star Wars themed MMORPG for the players to enjoy. The level of commitment they exhibit at this point in the games development cycle speaks volumes about the level of quality they hope to achieve, and there dedication is second to none imho.
the crafting part made me jump a little =] which gives me a little hope
however i am glad that at least one dev knows a little bit about what the community talks about.
it would be great to start getting solid info every Friday. Even if it is something small
anyway great read
I just want to step in pre-emptively here and state that I hope you will all keep things civil as I know we have a particularly passionate community with regards to the subject matter in this letter vs. Star Wars: The Old Republic. I am looking forward to seeing some good discussion come out of this, so let's not let it devolve into attacks and trolling.
Thanks guys! Have a great weekend!
Awesome read, shows that there is indeed HOPE to be had with devs like that. Can't wait to see what else BioWare has up their sleeves!
That guy is right on and he deserves an adult beverage and maybe an adult massage
While he certainly gave some hope concerning crafting and economy, he didn't actually say anything other than the fact that BioWare is well aware of the difference between Sandbox and Game.
Rightly so. It's what the community has been running around in circles screaming about ever since the game (and story-driven focus) was announced. Right now, until BioWare is ready to release solid info, it's kind of a quiet, soothing stage. They'll talk about the game to alleviate some concerns and go into greater detail when they reveal more gameplay mechanics.
Just don't pay attention if you don't like being reassured, hehe.
While there's not much red meat in this update, I'm seeing some things that give me hope, like the part about crafting among other things.
I'm sure this will do nothing to silence the people that insist this is just a instanced single player game with co-op mode, however.
Oh nothing will silence them, but its a good read nonetheless. I have a very good feeling that BioWare has a good grasp on what the overall MMO community is like, and they are trying to cater to every part they can without sacrificing vision. I have a good feeling they will pull it off as well.
That's a lot of speculation for a game that's likely not going to release until next year.
Vault-Tec analysts have concluded that the odds of worldwide nuclear armaggeddon this decade are 17,143,762... to 1.
The post is reassuring to be... sure. Bioware is one of the few game companies even if owned by EA at this point to be able to say "this sucks, this needs to be fixed" and do so, dates be damned. I hope crafting is interesting, I did enjoy the *harvesting* part of SW:G's crafting, but the actual crafting was boring. I never cared for the super minor bonuses using the "rare" materials got you.
In good time. Consider this a filler episode of a TV series. It explains some side content and the overall focus of the plot, but theres no real defining story elements to progress the story. They just poke at it with a stick and make you want to stay tuned to the next show so you know what this all means.
What I like is that he acknowledges the lack of substance regarding information by saying (paraphrase) "hey, we know there's not a lot of solid information out there on some things, but we're not going to talk about anything we haven't nailed down one hundred percent ourselves." The fact that they don't like to put out bad information that causes people to speculate and expect things that don't or won't end up in the final game is one of the reasons I like BioWare and one of the reasons they have a good reputation with me. I've yet to see a BioWare game that I have bought and played that truly sucked. The company has a good reputation with me, they know what they're doing, and the fact that they're not going to put out bad information now and then come back in six months and say, "oh, well, yeah, we thought about it, we were really excited about it, but then we found out that it just really wasn't going to work at all with this game" is one of the reasons that in my opinion, they keep putting out high quality games.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
I will believe it when i see it, but hey at least the words are nice.
the Evil Raider that outgears you and makes you cry for welfare epics on the forums.
Good to hear.
See you in the dream..
The Fires from heaven, now as cold as ice. A rapid ascension tolls a heavy price.
Yet again more talk from BioWare and nothing to show us that backs up his claims,let's see it.
Furious Fighters
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
Reassuring to know that they're aware of the divide in the MMO community these days. My interest in TOR just went up a fair bit. Looking forward to seeing what they try to do to appeal to both the 'game' and 'world' audiences.
I thought this was a great read. I particularly liked their idea that players can obtain rewards for helping other players with their class quests. In games I have played where you have a personal "epic" quest, the hardest part of it is getting help lol. So it looks like they have a good handle on helping to bring people together.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
So how does Star Wars: The Old Republic fall with regards to these two design philosophies? According to Damion, the game will be in the middle of the road, with the aim of utilizing the strength of both design philosophies, more specifically, providing "a directed and balanced game experience inside a lush, free-form Star Wars world."
I came to this exact same conclusion a few weeks ago. I think the perfect MMO would be a hybrid sandbox and theme park game.
If SWTOR really, truely is a hybrid between the two, then it very well may become one of the best MMOs ever made.
Those people don't like to let silly little things like "facts," "reason" and "truth" get in the way of anything they say about the game anyway.
Yes, and this coupled with Scott's estimate of $150 million budget(the largest in MMO history) really fosters a change in my additude towards this game. It still will not be the WOW killer the industry is seeking but it will make a historical mark. I love Star Wars very much but I have seen its flubs that still cry niche for a general audiance. These words are the right way to go for a successful MMO. I am just as excited to hear new info on this game. I sounds, however, its still very early in its full creation. This is evident with the fact no other races have been profiled as player characters. A cosmetic issue in truth in light of just getting the game right at this stage.
Good post.
First of all, good read. What he said just basically gave me more contentness on the matter and then some lol. Second , the chances of the game failing in my opinion are in the lower percentile lol. Logic points the other direction with bioware . Check the track record and if ur in the minority and want to hate , sorry about your luck or subjective views, whichever u prefer . There are plenty other games out there to enjoy. If they can find a middle ground like they say then honestly as gamers we cant ask for much more and with high quality polish..right there is a major plus . I encourage everyone interested to give support and to voice opinions to them on the game, it will only help the overall product, but with that said bioware has made plenty of games without are help and still have made ridiculous fun games imo. Good luck guys.
If they pull this game off like I expect, I will personally give the dev an adult massage...
First I respect the devs for NOT saying anything about that which is not locked down or 100% sure. Best not to put out bad information, especially with the way alot of folks carry on in these forums. I also like sandbox more so than theme park type games, and would think the hybrid between the two if done properly could be a solution that satisfies both ends of the spectrum. However, it is also possible to miss the mark and alienate both ends of the that spectrum. Dangerous ground to tread on indeed.
I am really excited about the crafting / gathering ideas. No game that I have played since the original Star Wars Galaxies has had the intricate balanced interdependent matrix that fullfilled a gather / crafter type player. For the most part, crafting in other MMOs is a joke at best, or a time and money sink. Don't get me wrong, I enjoy exploring more than anything, and then PvE, and then PvP ( if it is balanced). However, Crafting and Gathering while exploring is a great way to fill time slices when not enough time is available to prepare, group, and go find a PvP battle to join in, or go crawl a PvE dungeon or quest. If they pull this off, and make the Crafting and Gathering worth bothering with, count me in for sure.
In addition, he was spot on with the "community" aspect. Community can make or break a game. WoW has decended into prepubesance hell, and it was not only boredom with getting the next gear set, but the community that finally drove the last nail into the coffin for me. I also found the communities in Darkfall and other PvP orientated games to be "lackluster" and often offensive. Communtiy was the main reason I never purchased Darkfall (only did the free time) or Fallen Earth. So yes.. Spot On, Community is the most important aspect of the MMO-RPG type game. I only hope that the players will finally realize what the RPG stands for.
Playing: Nothing (nothing worth playing)
Favorite: SWG (pre NGE, CU)
Played: WoW, Eve, DAoC, Warhamer, AoC, SWG, Earth & Beyond
Hope: GW2 maybe