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General: Pre-Orders and Lifetime Subs

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  • SimsuSimsu Member UncommonPosts: 386

    Good write up. Would like to see more "consumer awareness" articles and then have em float around the site so new MMORPG.com viewers would see them pop up from time to time.

  • PyrateLVPyrateLV Member CommonPosts: 1,096

    The old adage "A Fool and his Money are soon Parted" never rings so true as it does with Gamers.

     

    I will usually pre-order a game if Im really interested in it. Just so I know I will get it upon release. Though after Best Buy took a week to get STO to me I will make sure I get "In Store Pick Up" next time.

    However, what I really dont like is Companies who use Pre-Order as a way to access a Beta, or give special goodies and early access as incentive to Pre-Order.

    I absolutely hate Life Time Subs. I agree with you Jon. It completely removes your power as a Consumer/Customer.

    Tried: EQ2 - AC - EU - HZ - TR - MxO - TTO - WURM - SL - VG:SoH - PotBS - PS - AoC - WAR - DDO - SWTOR
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  • peacekraftpeacekraft Member Posts: 189

    I had never considered the point about giving up your power as a consumer with a life time sub. I did preorder Age of Conan and Warhammer online but I played both of those games enough to justify those preorders, but yea I suppose it is mainly the price reductions offered by retailers for buying preorders that get me to buy the games early in combination with, yes, the shiny things on offer.

  • ZyonneZyonne Member Posts: 259

    I do have "money to throw around", so I don't mind paying for a game unseen if it is a game I would have bought on launch day anyway.  It usually takes a month or two for decent reviews to come out, which I don't have the patience to wait for, and I rarely agree with popular opinion, so I figure I might as well get the preorder bonuses by paying for the game early. That said, I've never complain about the waste of money if the game doesn't live up to my expectations, and I probably never will. I'm too busy complaining about how the game turned out to care about the money. :p

    I completely agree with the part about lifetime subscriptions, though. The only power you have as a consumer when it comes to showing dissatisfaction with a service is to stop paying for it, and buying a lifetime subscription takes away that power. Even if I somehow knew I'd be likely to play a new MMO for years to come, I wouldn't take an offer for a lifetime subscription. I don't care about the money, though. If I considered my gaming time a monetary investment that should be as low as possible, I might consider lifetime subscriptions.

  • joker007mojoker007mo Member Posts: 712

    Originally posted by Toquio3



    The only game I ever pre-ordered was Guild Wars Factions. I dunno, I guess Im just easy to please, but I never bought a mmo I didnt like, and even on single player games, I can count with the fingers of one hand the ones I didnt enjoy.

    I'll totally pre-order TOR for example if I have the chance, same with WoD. I know my tastes pretty well, and if I look at a game, even if its in development, and I think Im going to like it, chances are I will.

    I think when it comes to mmorpgs, the fun begins with you. Its true in my case.

    same here factions nightfall and eye of the north all preorder and it was mainly because i plain liked guild wars and knew that it extended the game i already had

    plus i wanted my paragon lol

    image

  • iamjmkiamjmk Member Posts: 51

    Oh I don't disagree Loke in fact I did pay a little at a time for Champions and was sorry I went through with it when I was exhausted with it in short order.........before my free month in fact. So I payed 5$ for STO got in the Beta realized it was a redo at least for me and saved the rest of my money. As to the saving the money week by week I agree if you have the discipline to sock it away and not use it  or have the family absorb it then that is the wiser course. 

  • LexinLexin Member UncommonPosts: 701

    I have never pre-ordered or bought a Lifetime subscription to any MMO only games I pre-order are none MMO. Though there currently is 1 game I might pre-order which is APB because by the videos and from what i know it will be an awesome game really it's the only MMO I have thought about buying before it's even out. As for lifetime subs NEVER because if the game is horrible i just wasted a ton of money on a pile of garbage.

    image

  • lethyslethys Member UncommonPosts: 585

    I agree completely with the article.

     

    [Mod edit]

  • AstralglideAstralglide Member UncommonPosts: 686

    Great column, Jon. Thank you for giving credibility to the argument for maintaining the power that we have as consumers. You will be missed here, please keep us updated on your MMO.

    A witty saying proves nothing.
    -Voltaire

  • KhalathwyrKhalathwyr Member UncommonPosts: 3,133

    As far as pre-orders go I see your point and agree with you. I don't think I personally am going to pre-order any games moving forward unless I am 100% onboard with what the game is doing gameplay wise and I have been in the beta for at least 3+ weeks. World of Darkness Online is currently the only upcoming game where I'm entertaining the idea based on CCP's past take on character progression (I don't think it'll be the exact same but knowing their love for skill-based progression and that the WoD system is skill based I'm very hopeful that's the direction it'll go).

    Now, Life-time Subscriptions...again, World of Darkness online is the only game where I'd even entertain the idea. That said, CCP has got to nail it in all aspects of this game in order for me to do this. And I mean nail it. Having bought 2 LT's for LOTRO and played it for only around a year, I can say without a doubt that no themepark game will ever get a LT sub out of me again. I don't look for sympathy. I look at it as a lesson learned.

    I also agree whole-heartedly about the comments that why should a game company care after they have you $200-300 LT sub. People can lie to themselves and think that the company does, but as is said so often on these forums these companies are in the business of making money. In most cases they have your money so they in turn just do what they want to do. NOw, Cryptic seems to be an exception in that they are creating more special perks for LT holders and hardly anything for the non-LT. It'll be interesting to see, a year and a half down the road when those LT subs have played out based on a $15/month sub scale and they have ticked off a sizeable section of their monthly sub holders via giving mucho love to the LT and very little to the nons. Combine that with their pace and volume of "content" they are putting out and I don't see a healthy retention for them.

    Course, noting the cynical comment and realizing that applies squarely to me, the thought that if I can pay a LT to a game I like and squeak out a year and a half of gameplay in a game made to my taste, then after that point if the company decides to just do what they want, ala SWG and the NGE, well, I haven't really contributed money to their dev costs to make those changes and as I'm not currently paying a sub it makes it easier to accept them doing what they want (killing the game I like) and just walking away. I mean, NGE, TOA (DAOC) and going back changes they made to UO 3 or 4 expansions in tell me that any company is capable of blowing up the gameplay that its game started with 2+ years after launch and knowing that I haven't been paying for them to do such, and thus alienate me, would make me feel alot better.

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  • VelniasVelnias Member Posts: 26

    Sorry champ, but Lifetime Subs save a ton of money in the long run.

  • Yavin_PrimeYavin_Prime Member Posts: 233

    Indeed i have to agree with you. I bought a lifetime sub to STO. Now I'm not complaining about it, infact the opposite its the game I thought I was getting. However after I bought it it hit me a month ago that "I gave away my vote," sure in the long run I won't pay as much if I keep playing the game, however they never feel the "risk" of loseing me. Based on the fact that I can't cancel my account and "stick it to 'em" I will never realy do a lifetime sub again. I had my fun, I tried it out and I realy don't need to do it again. To date I've only played one game for over two years... Star Wars Galaxies. In the end I was dang happy I had the ability to "stick it to" SOE after they esencialy reinvented my whole game... our whole game!!! So with that said I agree, as a person who got a lifetime sub, never again. It sounds good at first but for the sake of quality its a bust.

  • maskedweaselmaskedweasel Member LegendaryPosts: 12,195

    Not too bad of an article though, his reasons for pre-ordering are pretty much all the reasons anyone would ever pre-order.  Pre-ordering is not a bad thing in theory -- the company knows at what amount of product they will be selling and can plan accordingly -- they try and give out incentives to pre-order -- it oftentimes gives you early access to the game.

     

     Online pre-ordering has become a major issue as companies stopped allowing you to return pre-orders or transfer to other games if you had misgivings.  When I pre-order I go into a game store and put down 10 - 15 bucks depending on if there are specific items or a beta that I can't get into otherwise.

     

    Most of the time I don't even buy the game at the store, just the pre-order and move my money to a different game I want to buy later.

     

    Where the article really shines is on the lifetimes subscriptions.  I could not have agreed more on the initial reasons not to buy a lifetime subscription. In this volatile business where game companies can change things at their will, you put yourself at a disadvantage by paying for your time up front.  Yes it may cost more in the long run, but if you end up not liking the game after 2 months due to a drastic change, then it saves you plenty.



  • gaeanprayergaeanprayer Member UncommonPosts: 2,341

    Actually, I think Jon is wrong about the lifetime membership undermining consumer power. No game I know of offered lifetime for an unlimited amount of time, usually to the first couple of hundred people willing to shell out that kind of money. The amount of people with a lifetime sub is to be very, very small in comparison to those who pay monthly, so there's still plenty of incentive for game makers to do continue improving their games. You'd be a fool to think the developers of the game didn't plan with their financial departments to see how many of those 'lifetime' slots they could afford to shell out.

    Yes, if EVERYONE had the lifetime, the devs would lose a reason to improve on their game. But do you know any game like that? Of course not. Further, the only lifetime sub I ever bought was $200 for Champions Online, a game I do NOT play regularly but go back to from time to time when I'm bored. Buying the game + a year's worth of monthly payments would come out to roughly what the lifetime sub cost, except people who are making monthly payments will continue to pay after that year is over. For me, the game will essentially be free. If it happens to flop after a year, I'm no worse off than everyone else.

    I agree with the rest of the article though. Especially after that pre-order fail video of Mortal Online. The gift bag was fail, epitomized.

    "Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."

  • fyerwallfyerwall Member UncommonPosts: 3,240

    Originally posted by maskedweasel

    Not too bad of an article though, his reasons for pre-ordering are pretty much all the reasons anyone would ever pre-order.  Pre-ordering is not a bad thing in theory -- the company knows at what amount of product they will be selling and can plan accordingly -- they try and give out incentives to pre-order -- it oftentimes gives you early access to the game.

     

     Online pre-ordering has become a major issue as companies stopped allowing you to return pre-orders or transfer to other games if you had misgivings.  When I pre-order I go into a game store and put down 10 - 15 bucks depending on if there are specific items or a beta that I can't get into otherwise.

     

    Most of the time I don't even buy the game at the store, just the pre-order and move my money to a different game I want to buy later.

     

    Where the article really shines is on the lifetimes subscriptions.  I could not have agreed more on the initial reasons not to buy a lifetime subscription. In this volatile business where game companies can change things at their will, you put yourself at a disadvantage by paying for your time up front.  Yes it may cost more in the long run, but if you end up not liking the game after 2 months due to a drastic change, then it saves you plenty.

     The part I highlighted.

    The only place I preorder is through an actual store, because if I find that the game isnt going to be what I like after all the info is out, I can always just cancel the PO and move it to another game I am interested in.

    Preordering online is kinda 'meh'. Most times its more of a pre purchase (whole amount taken at once) and they rarely offer a refund if you chose to cancel (all sales final even if its weeks before the launch). Sure you can have your credit company dispute the charge, but its really just too much hassle in the long run.

    As for Lifetime subs, sure it might save money in the long run (if you continue to like the game and play it) but most times these offers are only given before launch and often never allow a refund.

    There are 3 types of people in the world.
    1.) Those who make things happen
    2.) Those who watch things happen
    3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"


  • GaylenGaylen Member Posts: 113

    I pretty much entirely disagree.

    Do people still think these developers give a crap if you unsub? It's a dead horse, but again, look at SWG. A mass exodus from that game and SoE gave a collective "meh."

    How long has a significant portion of the MMO community been begging for more sandbox and less theme park rails? Has that materialized just because you didn't buy the lifetime from LOTRO? Players opinions are the lowest on the totem pole cause developers have bean-counters to answer to. As long as WoW keeps boasting millions of subs, companies are going to chase it with imitation.

    If you can find a game you'll like and play for more than 12 months, save yourself a few bucks and buy the lifetime. Spending more than you have to under the dillusion that a company will care what you think or if you unsub is foolishness. They just pocket more of your money while doing what they were going to do anyway.

    Previous played: SWG (pre-NGE), DAoC, CoH, Anarchy Online, DDO, Champions Online Beta, LOTRO, GW2, SWTOR
    image

  • KyleranKyleran Member LegendaryPosts: 44,060

    Originally posted by championsFan

    Not too much has changed since then, but I did learn to appreciate special times like that.   The satisfaction of making a commitment is the thing that Wood's article is missing.

    Dammit man, its a video game, not a new girlfriend. image

    Glad to see someone still loves that game, but doesn't it get a bit lonely sometimes?

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  • DignaDigna Member UncommonPosts: 1,994

    I love to pre-order. I'm not generally concerned with getting into Beta because of it but rather to make sure I play on day one (for games I am really hankering to play). Also, I like it when a game offers a free day or three before the gen-pop comes streaming in. Gives the  pre-orders a chance to get past the over-packed newbie areas (not that I am one to level to end game ASAP).

     

    As was mentioned earlier in this post, if a game is less than perfect (more and more of these in the last couple years I am sorry to say) and I pre-ordered, it's my loss. But MMOs are my vice and that's where I flush my money.

  • VyntVynt Member UncommonPosts: 757

    I don't mind preordering. If I preorder, it means I was going to buy the game regardless. I usually only preorder a game I want because I don't have to bother going to the store, might get a few extras, and sometimes beta which I don't care too much about it.

    Now, lifetimes, I probably won't touch because the current crop of MMOs just haven't had any longevity for me.  It is possible I would get one, but there is just nothing coming soon that makes me think I would play it well over a year. I rather just pay for a month or 3 at a time, and if I end up loving the game and play a few years, sure I would spend more than the lifetime, but  feel it worth it because I enjoyed the game so much. Kind of like EQ and daoc. I felt it was money well spent for the several years of gameplay.

     Most likely I would end up feeling cheated buying a lifetime sub.

  • VypreVypre Member Posts: 180

    Nice piece.  As you can see most fair-minded people have always seen both topics as lay-up issues.

    Pre-Ordering isn't necessarily a bad thing, but how anyone couldn't never consider the point about giving up your power as a consumer with a life time subscription is beyond me.  When I hear that term, the phrase "a sucker born every minute" comes to mind.

    Striving for Silver Stars since Gold is so effeminate.

  • JamionJamion Member UncommonPosts: 59
    I preorder quite often, usually there is a head start incentive to preorder. That being said I usually preorder only games I have a lot of faith in, particularly xpacks. I have only really gotten burned on one preorder, and that was WAR. C'est la Vie.

    As for lifetime subs, I normally am not a lifer; with a few exception. First is Guild Wars, but that really doesn't count as every single person is a lifer, honestly the best money I have ever spent on a game. Star Trek Online I was in the beta for, and although it isn't the best MMO I have ever played I think in the long run it will be well worth it, and they have treated us lifers well so far, I am quite happy.

    As for the future. Well I will preorder GW2 and TOR. GW2 will be same sub base as GW. TOR, if they offer a lifetime I sub I will probably grab it.

    There are other games I am interested in like the Secret World, FF14, etc but I don't think (at least not at this point) would I invest in either a preorder or lifetime sub for any of those.

    image

  • AOCtesterAOCtester Member, Newbie CommonPosts: 431

    Pre-ordering a "normal" game compared to MMOs is just two totally diffrent things to me.  Most companies can be trusted of releaseing a good single player / multiplayer game that works out of the box.  Many offer playable demo even before launch..  This is sadly not what the MMO genre has been able to do in the past 3-4 years.  We have now almost endless lines of MMO games that were so far from beeing half playable at launch.  And if they were playable - they usually had very little content and were in no hurry to add to it.

    If ppl pay for  a boxed version of an MMO game - it should mean that the game WORKS out of the box - like most other games do.  The gamers have given the publishers and developers way to much space to throw out half finished MMO  titles - filled with hype and in some cases still under NDA.  This simply has to stop.  Alot of gamers have been burned - and its their job to warn others what pre-ordering an MMO really means.  In some cases it means that you have payed three times the price for a box of a game - that you might enjoy in 12 months... and then .. ofc paying a sub for it.

    Thats not gaming.

  • NifaNifa Member Posts: 324

    Fairly spot on article.  I tend to agree on the lifetime subs part, particularly if one buys it early on, without really having invested much time into the game (which some people have done lately only to find it a regrettable decision).

    Preorders I'm kind of meh on, personally.  I can't see paying for anything I've not played nor seen anything more than hype on.  You pay for a game sight unseen, well, yeah - you kind of deserve whatever happens there.  Sorry 'bout that.

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  • UendilorUendilor Member UncommonPosts: 1

    Overall I agree with the article, with the exception of the idea that lifetime subscriptions are never a good idea. 

    As someone noted prior, if everyone was on a LTS, then the subscribers have very little power... that said, I don't see any games where this is true.  And for me, given how my life in general works, a lifetime sub for a game I really enjoy (LotRO) works well.  I have a wonky work schedule, plus 2 kids to take care of as a single father.  I will have months where I get tons of time to play the game, and others where I get a total of maybe a week to play out of the month (not consecutive days, necessarily).  If I was paying month to month, or any time based scheme I can think of other than day to day, I'd end up throwing money away most months.  As a lifetime sub, I can play when I have the ability to do so, and not feel like I am wasting money (well, any more than you always waste money on any entertainment, that is). 

    I didn't purchase my LTS until quite some time after I had started playing the game, and was pretty certain that I wasn't going to want to stop playing any time in the near future.  Given the fact that the game has continued to have a draw for me to come play, I don't regret buying my LTS at all.  And since I'm generally pleased with the way LotRO has developed over time, with only a few minor exceptions, I have even less reason to complain.

    Good article regardless... and it's always good to do a "head check" to be sure you understand the downfalls of your actions.

  • RuvianeRuviane Member UncommonPosts: 9

    I was in the Beta of LOTRO, and absolutely fell in love with the game.  I then preordered the game and did get a Lifetime membership.  Our tax money had just come back, and it would have been about the same as a year of playing, so it made financial sense to me..  I was trapped in Retail Hell at the time, so I knew that my time to play would be sporadic at best.  By getting the LT, I don't feel guilty if there is a stretch of time that I don't play much.   If it wasn't for the LT, I would have had to give it up about a year ago, as I was laid off.  Thankfully, that is one thing that I did not have to give up to save money.

     

    I do agree that nobody should get a LT unless it is a game that they have played and enjoyed, but I am quite happy with LOTRO.  Even if there were no more improvements, I would be happy with it. It probably helps that I have read and love the books, too.  The developers definitely read the very long descriptions to keep as true to the source as possible.

     

    I think offering Lifetime Subscriptions at the start of a game makes sense to the publishers, as long as they do limit it to either a certain time limit or a certain number of subscriptions.  This can generate a nice chunk of income to pay any bonuses that the dev team has earned, or pay for the production costs.  The same can be said about any major expansions.  As long as the publishers limit how many LTs they have so they don't shoot themselves in the foot by scavenging too many future earnings, everyone can benefit from a well-run game.

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