I totally disagree with this article and this is the reason why.
Pre order. when i preorder a game it is for the sole benefit of getting into a open beta to try the game out. i did it with sto and im glad i did, cause I went into best buy and paid 5 bucks to get beta access, maybe i couldve gotten it without preordering, idk and idc, it was my five bucks and that was how i wanted to spend it. After playing the beta i realized i didnt want the game so i just never went to pick it up on release. now if you are talking about the mortal online preorder or xsyon preorder where you pay the whole price for the game upfront, yeah i can agree not to do that but just that little 5 dollar preorder from gamestop or best buy, it is totally worth it as long as it comes with a beta access to try the game imo.
Lifetime subs. Man i am still so kicking myself for not getting lifetime sub on lotro. that is not a game that i really want to play all the time, but each time a new update comes out i want to go check it out and i dont want to resub and cancel my current game to go play it. Now some of you can say well just pay for two subs, problem is I dont have time to play two games all the time, with wife and kids i may get 10 to 15 hours a week to play a game, i dont feel that justifies 30 bucks a month every month when i might get 5 to 8 hours a week on each game so i pay for one at a time, but if i did lifetime i could still be enjoying lotro every update or when i want to play it and enjoying eve online which im currently playing.
Now i do agree that you shouldnt complain about either one once you plop down your money, just chalk it up as a loss but to me both of those are good for the consumer more than the company. sure preorders get more people to think about the game plus gives the company a ballpark figure as to how many customers they will have on launch but it generally gives consumers early access to the game before they plop down 50 bucks on it. Lifetime subs are just great deals for the consumers if they play for more than a year or year and a half which granted some games might not be worth that, but some of them really have been worth it, and i missed the boat because of thinking like this article, i had a chance to get lotro for 199 lifetime as a founders, and i spent way more than that on monthly fees and didnt quit till around december last year or right before that latest xpac came out to go play eve with some friends.
good article but there is also another point of view for some people.
I have never preordered an MMO, and 95% of the preorders for single players I beta'd first. You buy it before its released, you throw the dice. Now if you buy it and it does a complete 360 in the first 30 days, hell yes. Demand your money back.
I do have to agree the practice of pre-orders = beta access is dubious in principal at BEST.
Now I will admit. Unless jar jar is a playable race or there are game changing / impacting (non cosmetic) microtransactions, I WILL preorder SWTOR.....IF I get in the beta and enjoy it. BioWare has earned my trust with their past releases and behavior. The twitter thing was overly...public... but they did and are giving away a TON of shit for free. Hell, all I dod was tweet and make some forum posts and I got a 5770 graphics card. For nothing but my casual time.
Lifer for STO here. I beta tested the game so I had played it before I decided to get it. I still enjoy it thoroughly. Does it take my power as a consumer away...yes in one form it does...but I still regularly buy the Cryptic store stuff as I want the full game experience...not a basic version. I'm sure a lot of lifers do the same...at varying degrees...some buy more some buy less. That still makes us customers.
Another aspect being a lifetime subscriber affects is the weight of your word of mouth, especially if it is close to launch (but not right after launch, I'm talking within a month or so). When someone who's subscribing monthly quits a game they haven't invested a lot into the game...they don't have anymore time commitment to the game than 30 days or so....so if they quit...it's not a huge deal. A lifer has to play a certain amount of time to get their money's worth...for STO I have to play for about 18 months before my money will have been well spent. If I quit well before that time is up...that says something significant about the game. My opinion of the game is elevated because of what I have invested in the game.
Now maybe you'll say my opinion of myself and my status in the community is inflated...fine...you think that, I don't care...but you know what I say is true. You know that when you hear a lifetime subscriber threatening to quit a game that you shouldn't take it lightly. That is an indication of a serious problem with the game...an indication that you should steer clear. The power of word of mouth...especially from a lifetime subscriber, is an important factor to consider.
What about the lifers who bitched about the game immediately after launch? They fall in a special category...people who didn't know what they were getting into. They foolishly bought the game before they knew what they were getting. They are not committed to the game like I am committed to the game. They are not in it for the long haul...they just want their frickin refund.
I pre-ordered Vanguard. Luckily I got myself into its open beta and was able to cancel that pre-order. I've been wary of pre-ordering since then. Though after reading near universal good previews/reviews of Aion and because it was already a successful game overseas of, I pre-ordered that to have a look at it in open beta and didn't feel ripped off.
Pre-orders are generally a bad idea for the consumer. But if you research the product then you minimise the risk. And the ones that guarantee beta access can end up saving you money. You can use it as a cheap preview and then cancel the pre-order if it doesn't look good.
But I think anyone who buys a lifetime subscription pre-launch, especially if they haven't had an opportunity to play it, is insane. The only MMOs ever to have offered lifetime subs have been underperformers and the obvious intent of the developers has been to make up for poor expected box sales.
I'd go one further than Jon, though. Having seen so many awful MMO releases over the past few years I'd avoid even buying MMOs at launch. They're almost universally unfinished - Aion is the only recent exception I can think of - and there's a fair bet you'll see a free trial within 6 months of release. So why buy?
Though what's good for the consumer here is bad for the developer - even the ones not trying to rip us off with unfinished products.
Pre-order sale numbers give them an idea of how many total box sales they'll make. That tells them how many game boxes to have produced and how many players to expect, i.e. what kind of server resources they'll need for a smooth launch. If it's available via download then pre-ordering and pre-downloading is better all round because you won't have everyone trying to download it at once.
But by screwing us they've screwed themselves, which in turn screws us a bit more. It's an orgy of errors that will end up costing everyone.
I rarely ever Pre-Order a game, and then it must meet certain criteria:
1) Made by a reputable company (BioWare, Blizzard, etc).
2) I've done the research online to ensure it is most likely a game that I will not be disappointed with (such as StarCraft II).
3) The game is either popular enough to likely be sold out quickly, or has significant Pre-Order bonuses.
As to Lifetime Subscriptions: While I do agree with the overall points the article makes, I think the trend in MMO gaming is going to somewhat mitigate those points. With the current "Subscription Only" model, the article is right. Lifetime subscribers give up a great deal of their Consumer Power. However, the trend of MMOs seems to be the incorporation of Micro-Transactions (no matter how much consumers may dislike it, it does appear to be catching on). Thus, where before a Lifetimer would be adding nothing to the Developer's coffers, now that Lifetime is just as likely, if not more so, to visit the "In-Game Store" and plop down a few bucks for an In-Game item - thus, generating more revenue for the Developer. And since this person has a Lifetime subscription, they will be less likely to "jump ship" when a new MMO comes out. Thus, ensuring a continued revenue stream.
Good article. It did make me think as I have/do pre-order, but much less than I use to, and honestly nothing out that makes me want to pre-order.
Basically pre-order's now are xpac of games I already play versus the new one out. Learned that the past few years with games that after a month were not holding my interest.
As for the LTS, I wish I had bought LoTRO when it first came out, its a beautiful game, but not one I can invest tons of time in per week/month as I already pay for 2-3 other MMO's. I randomly like to pop in LoTRO, and a LTS comes up again (I was told this month possibly) I'm going to buy it. Would I buy a LTS on a new game based on hype - NO!
People that are anti-LTS, do you pay monthly? Semi-annually? Or annually for your subs? I pay semi or annually for games I play alot, monthly for those new or resubbing. Saves a few bucks and I know I'm going to play so worth it to me. MMO's are my money-sink versus console games, movies, or other forms of entertainment.
As far as preorders go in the area that I live in if it's a pc game if you don't preorder it or arn't willing to run out and pick it up within a few days of it's release you won't be getting one at all or at least for like a month. In every brick and mortar store around here they barely get more then a handful of copies of any given pc title unless it turns out to be some kind of epic AAA blockbuster and then usually the guys behind the counter make sure all thier buddies and themselves get a copy on release day and if they happen to have any left they'll put it on the shelf.
I don't know how many times I've gone to my local gamestop or bestbuy only to find the shelf empty or be told "you got lucky and got the last copy" within in a few days of release of a new title and if they would be sold out and I ask them when they'll get more in I usually just get a shrug and they'll say "I dunno"
I basically get like 80% of my games pc or console online now where in general I get beter prices and delivery to my door without any of the hassle.
I am sorry, but I find this a hilarious concept in relation to any company running an MMO.
My experience with Everquest, WoW and a host of other MMOs is that there is little indication that they care 2 cents about individual subscriptions. I have never seen a game company react positively to anyone who has said "change this or I will cancel my subscription". However I have seen plenty of times when the person has received a Customer Service version of "sorry your leaving, don't let the door hit you on the way out".
I have a lifetime sub to LOTRO. I have gone months without playing only to return for a month. I have played on one week and off the next. I purchased the lifetime sub because it was convenient for ME. I purchased this sub because I saw the large potential (then unrealized) and had confidence that something with the LotR IP would have lasting endurance. The $199 price tag was equivalent to about 13 months at normal subscription rate. Assuming you play longer than a year (and the game lasts longer than a year) everything after that is pure gravy. I paid a premium to play as I wish and I will save hundreds of dollars with my lifetime subscription over the long term.
Now, there are some that will pay for a lifetime fee for a game sight unseen and never get their money's worth. These same people never gave more than 2 seconds thought to their (reasonably) substantial purchase. Don't blame the subscription format for that, blame the idiots who chose to buy the subscription without an ounce of due diligence. These are the same people who send money to South African money launderers and buy $6 lattes.
Don't disagree with the story but I do not regret paying for my lifetime membership of LOTRO. I wish I could have had the offer for EQ. would have saved me tuns of money on the months that I did not play. but that is OK too. Not sure I would Pre-order unless I had been in a Beta and knew what I was pre-ordering and it had a good benefit for me.
Nail on the head with the article, in fact based off the crap I've seen developed from the studios who offer these kind of options I'm going to be especially cynical towards buying their hype.
Agreed with Jon. I think the MMORPG industry is the only one where paying huge sums of money for products we haven't seen yet is considered "normal". Seriously, think about it. If you were to explain to someone who has never seen or played MMOs that you paid $50 for a game you haven't even played yet, they'd tell ya how crazy the whole idea really is. Same with charging what you would spend on a polished and widely played game for another one that is not even finished, just to hope it'll improve.
I've never understood it myself, really, and I've been playing MMOs for a while now. I usually wait for the game to be out for a while or play a trial, and THEN buy it. And if I didn't like the game, I just stop playing, surely not going to support it. In every other industry, we expect to receive what we pay for, why would it be different in MMOs?
Well, my experience is a lot narrower, and deeper, than y'all's. I'm a Turbine junkie. I played AC1, I played AC2 (till it died, much-lamented), I beta-tested DDO but, never having played D&D in any other form, I wasn't impressed (I made a Cleric character, because I like playing healers; I died over and over and over; and everybody on the beta forums kept saying, "BUT! A Cleric is a powerful war-mage!" Well, mine wasn't.). Then I played LotRO in alpha 3 and all the beta and my husband and I both pre-ordered and bought lifetime memberships and we're still in LotRO.
Yes, there are things in the game I don't care for. I avoid them as I can.
I've seen lots of other games, mostly over my son's shoulder as he played them (CoH, CoV, WoW beta, several others). I was never tempted.
So if your attitude toward a game is "Yeah, I'll play this sometime, probably, for a couple months if I really like it, for one or two days if I don't, there are plenty of other fish in the sea," why, yes, then there is no point in your pre-ordering or lifetiming. Everybody to his own taste, said the old lady as she kissed the cow.
Right now we are profoundly grateful that we bought lifetime memberships to LotRO, because we're currently unemployed and broke and couldn't afford a monthly subscription at present. But we don't have to.
heh. Right-on, Jon. I find it hllarious when another uneducated consumer pays a life-time sub for a mmorpg, only to be taken for a ride.
Unfortunately, some of you in the minority might not think that consumers dont wield the power. But when I think about it, it might be the unfortunate few that either are entrenched in a socialist environment where they are prone to giving the government (studio) the power to do anything, or are just the the additional few so uneducated about Capitalism, it's scary.
Long-story short, there are probably only 2 mmo's that were ever worthy of a life-time at the time; LotRo and WoW. 2 games worthy out of perhaps 50 in the past 6 years. Yea; those are good odds.
"Here's my opinion: buying a lifetime subscription to a game completely undermines your power as a consumer. MMO development studios don't put time and resources into updating their games as much as they do out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it in order to keep making money. Ultimately, to keep people subscribing to their game. If they already have all of the money they're going to get out of you. Why then, other than out of the goodness of their hearts (or good PR, but we're all too cynical for that), would they care what your opinions are, you've already given them your power."
"Here's my opinion: buying a lifetime subscription to a game completely undermines your power as a consumer. MMO development studios don't put time and resources into updating their games as much as they do out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it in order to keep making money. Ultimately, to keep people subscribing to their game. If they already have all of the money they're going to get out of you. Why then, other than out of the goodness of their hearts (or good PR, but we're all too cynical for that), would they care what your opinions are, you've already given them your power."
/bingo
I hear what yer saying but I will definetly pre-order a game that is an expansion of one I am playing and like.
I will also .. ALWAYS go for a lifetime sub for the same game if it is offered. The way I see it is I'm going to be playing this game for alot longer than what the $$ spent on a lifetime would cost.
The argument: 'buying a lifetime subscription to a game completely undermines your power as a consumer. MMO development studios don't put time and resources into updating their games' is silly!!!!! My purchase means squat as far as 'power' goes. What it does mean is I'll be saving $$$ in the long run.
Before doing either, the game should appeal in a big way as something I'll be playing for a long time...even after the main time playing its nice to be able to o back and just pop around when I feel like it.
Pre order is IMO a good way to get into a the betas and get the fun little exrtas for $5, check out the game and if it sucks your only out the $5. Lifetime for a game that may or may not suck is a big risk of your $200.00 ( seemingly standard life sub) . Personally i am on alot of private beta lists and many public lists so the only games i pre order are the ones that suck me in and i enjoy. i pre ordered cause i want the stupid pet or cool weapon. But there arent many that have done that with.
I wish i could have beta'd and preordered my wife.... o crap i guess i did, but my kids arent pets, and no cool weapons, dam got screwed with that life time sub!
pre-order used to mean something but you aren't guaranteed to get a copy anymore than the next because of employee mistakes.
everytime people cry about lifetime subscriptions it stinks highly of jealousy.
williwaw87Maple Story CorrespondentMemberPosts: 43
There are always exceptions. Guild Wars has a lifetime subscription type model. You pay for it and that is it. However, there are still frequent patches and events.
The article didn't really address that there are two types of pre-orders. Also Jon seemed to imply that somehow pre-ordering a game also means you will have high expectations for the game, while not pre-ordering means you will have low expectations. That's just silly.
IE: You can be super excited and hyped about a game and not pre-order. Or you could just know the name of a game, and pre-order it.
Pre-ordering =/= expecatiations.
Anyway, the first type of pre-order is where you go into a retail store, put down $5 on a box with a pre-order key inside, and when the game is released you go back to the store, they credit the $5 toward the total cost of the game and it didn't cost you anything extra, except for some time.
OR
You go back to the store with your recepit, tell them you don't want to buy the game, and get your $5 back. This is the part that most people don't realize. Pre-ordering a game at a retail store does not lock you into purchasing the game, or losing your $5. You can ALWAYS get your money back for the pre-order, as long as you have proof of purchase.
The above type of pre-order also applies to services like D2D or Steam. As long as you request a refund before the game is released they will give you your money back for the pre-order purchase.
I've noticed some people feel guilty about doing this, don't. The pre-order system is set up this way on purpose. It's not shady, it's how the system works. Just FYI. The game development company does not see any money until the actual game is sold. Your pre-order deposit doesn't go anywhere until the retail game is purchased.
Really, pre-order type 1 is a win-win situation.
Now, pre-order type 2 is something that I will personally never do. Paying full price for a game directly from the development company before the game is released.
In most of these cases the pre-order price has been non-refundable even if you request a refund before the game is released. This, to me, is a very shady practice and I would never pay for something before I get to see if I like it or not.
Obviously there is a major difference between these two types of pre-order systems.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
More and more, we are paying for sub-par products. We vote with our wallets. Let's do a better job of voting.
Important facts: 1. Free to Play games are poorly made. 2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals. 3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE. 4. Community is more important than you think.
Just FYI for all, if you pre order from gamestop, put your $5 down and not actually buy the game cause maybe you didnt enjoy the beta or just changed your mind, your cash stays in the system and can be refunded anytime or applied to another purchase kind of like "store credit"
I know people hate the low ball buy backs ( trade ins) that places like gamestop offer (we know this excludes PC) but if you have console games collecting dust, why not get something for them vs nothing? Helps me recycle some money spent on alot of my kids DS games and WII games. Also i think buying used games that they promise will work or your money back, is wise. Why not save a few bucks? And they give 10% off used games.
I bought 2 lifetime subscriptions to LOTRO when it was released. One for me and one for my wife. We still play.
It was one of the best decisions I've made. We've saved $652 and counting. That's nothing to sneeze at.
I definitely do not agree with Jon's assumption that games with lifetime subscriptions do not update their games. LOTRO has had tons of updates over the last 3 years. They have multiple festivals each year where new, unique mini-games are available, not to mention 2 full expansions and tons of smaller book updates.
Also Guild Wars is another game where they don't even charge a subscription, they get all of their money from the box sales, there isn't even an option to subscribe, yet they have had a lot of free updates since the initial release.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I have lifetime subscriptions for Lotro and STO. Mostly it's been a mistake. The Lotro one I don't feell too bad about because I love Turbine and even if I'm not playing the game I appreciate it for what it is and would do anything to support them (I'm an ex Asheron's Call player and they've earned my loyalty).
STO on the other hand makes me sick to my stomach. I don't know why I did it, I've tried two Cryptic games before it (CoH and CO) and I was not into either of them. I guess it was an expensive and wasteful impulse buy. The pre-order trinkets helped lure me in. I don't think I'll ever play a Cryptic game again.
If Blizzard offered a lifetime subcription now (5-6 years after launch of WoW) in the 3 year / $300 range I think I would get it because the game keeps evolving and even if I don't play it seriously I play in spurts and would happily support Blizzard by putting my money in their hands.
Edit: ha! member since 03' and first post. Go figure - I guess this topic just pushed my button.
I understand completely the marketing side of it, and the intial capital it offers games producers.
The only ways I could justify purchasing a life-time sub is either
a) the game promises to be so great that you are confident that you will be playing the game for a long time
or
b) you realisitically think that you will be playing the game for a period of time which makes the life-time sub more financially attractive than paying monthly (i.e. a game is $15 a month or $200 life-time sub). If you see yourself playing for 14 months or more, you may as well get the lifetime.
or
c) It's the only way to get some attractive offer like early-start, beta access etc. I don't get too excited by these offers - pay a couple hundred dollars to be a tester and some starter equipment? I think not.
I guess I do get a little irritated when people buy life-time subs and then moan after a couple of months. It's called a 'lifetime' sub for a reason and if you're moaning now you probably didn't take the decision seriously enough in the first place.
Pre-orders: Tbh, I don't quite have Jons' aversion to pre-orders. I won't pre-order something before I absolutely want it, but often there are incentives to pre-ordering. I've lived in the UK and Australia, and often you can save money off the purchase price by pre-ordering - whether you're pre-ordering digitally direct from the games developers, from a game-shop website who are going to mail you the game, or from a walk-in store. In these 2 countries PC games are becoming more and more difficult to track down in walk-in stores as digital distribution become more popular. A lot of stores will not stock games that aren't mainstream, and slightly obscure games can be difficult to locate. Most recently I pre-ordered CO from a walk-in store in Aus. This was a specialist gaming shop with staff who played MMOs and they had never heard of it. I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't pre-ordered it I would have had a good hunt on my hands to find a boxed copy.
I guess the moral of the story is that both these options are tactics by games developers/producers to encourage you, the gamer, to either outlay money before you receive your goods or to outlay more money and subscribe for longer than you might normally. To encourage you to do so they offer incentives such as early access, equipment, reduced subscriptions (based on the length of your subscription) etc.
Just because something is a blatant marketing or capital raising ploy doesn't mean it's without it's benefits , however! I will probably pre-order SWTOR, and DCUO for that matter. DCUO won't be getting a life-time sub, but if the lifetime sub for SWTOR equates to around 12 months of subs...I may have a decision to make;)
Comments
I totally disagree with this article and this is the reason why.
Pre order. when i preorder a game it is for the sole benefit of getting into a open beta to try the game out. i did it with sto and im glad i did, cause I went into best buy and paid 5 bucks to get beta access, maybe i couldve gotten it without preordering, idk and idc, it was my five bucks and that was how i wanted to spend it. After playing the beta i realized i didnt want the game so i just never went to pick it up on release. now if you are talking about the mortal online preorder or xsyon preorder where you pay the whole price for the game upfront, yeah i can agree not to do that but just that little 5 dollar preorder from gamestop or best buy, it is totally worth it as long as it comes with a beta access to try the game imo.
Lifetime subs. Man i am still so kicking myself for not getting lifetime sub on lotro. that is not a game that i really want to play all the time, but each time a new update comes out i want to go check it out and i dont want to resub and cancel my current game to go play it. Now some of you can say well just pay for two subs, problem is I dont have time to play two games all the time, with wife and kids i may get 10 to 15 hours a week to play a game, i dont feel that justifies 30 bucks a month every month when i might get 5 to 8 hours a week on each game so i pay for one at a time, but if i did lifetime i could still be enjoying lotro every update or when i want to play it and enjoying eve online which im currently playing.
Now i do agree that you shouldnt complain about either one once you plop down your money, just chalk it up as a loss but to me both of those are good for the consumer more than the company. sure preorders get more people to think about the game plus gives the company a ballpark figure as to how many customers they will have on launch but it generally gives consumers early access to the game before they plop down 50 bucks on it. Lifetime subs are just great deals for the consumers if they play for more than a year or year and a half which granted some games might not be worth that, but some of them really have been worth it, and i missed the boat because of thinking like this article, i had a chance to get lotro for 199 lifetime as a founders, and i spent way more than that on monthly fees and didnt quit till around december last year or right before that latest xpac came out to go play eve with some friends.
good article but there is also another point of view for some people.
I have never preordered an MMO, and 95% of the preorders for single players I beta'd first. You buy it before its released, you throw the dice. Now if you buy it and it does a complete 360 in the first 30 days, hell yes. Demand your money back.
I do have to agree the practice of pre-orders = beta access is dubious in principal at BEST.
Now I will admit. Unless jar jar is a playable race or there are game changing / impacting (non cosmetic) microtransactions, I WILL preorder SWTOR.....IF I get in the beta and enjoy it. BioWare has earned my trust with their past releases and behavior. The twitter thing was overly...public... but they did and are giving away a TON of shit for free. Hell, all I dod was tweet and make some forum posts and I got a 5770 graphics card. For nothing but my casual time.
Sorry, started to ramble off topic there.
Lifer for STO here. I beta tested the game so I had played it before I decided to get it. I still enjoy it thoroughly. Does it take my power as a consumer away...yes in one form it does...but I still regularly buy the Cryptic store stuff as I want the full game experience...not a basic version. I'm sure a lot of lifers do the same...at varying degrees...some buy more some buy less. That still makes us customers.
Another aspect being a lifetime subscriber affects is the weight of your word of mouth, especially if it is close to launch (but not right after launch, I'm talking within a month or so). When someone who's subscribing monthly quits a game they haven't invested a lot into the game...they don't have anymore time commitment to the game than 30 days or so....so if they quit...it's not a huge deal. A lifer has to play a certain amount of time to get their money's worth...for STO I have to play for about 18 months before my money will have been well spent. If I quit well before that time is up...that says something significant about the game. My opinion of the game is elevated because of what I have invested in the game.
Now maybe you'll say my opinion of myself and my status in the community is inflated...fine...you think that, I don't care...but you know what I say is true. You know that when you hear a lifetime subscriber threatening to quit a game that you shouldn't take it lightly. That is an indication of a serious problem with the game...an indication that you should steer clear. The power of word of mouth...especially from a lifetime subscriber, is an important factor to consider.
What about the lifers who bitched about the game immediately after launch? They fall in a special category...people who didn't know what they were getting into. They foolishly bought the game before they knew what they were getting. They are not committed to the game like I am committed to the game. They are not in it for the long haul...they just want their frickin refund.
I mostly agree with Jon Wood.
I pre-ordered Vanguard. Luckily I got myself into its open beta and was able to cancel that pre-order. I've been wary of pre-ordering since then. Though after reading near universal good previews/reviews of Aion and because it was already a successful game overseas of, I pre-ordered that to have a look at it in open beta and didn't feel ripped off.
Pre-orders are generally a bad idea for the consumer. But if you research the product then you minimise the risk. And the ones that guarantee beta access can end up saving you money. You can use it as a cheap preview and then cancel the pre-order if it doesn't look good.
But I think anyone who buys a lifetime subscription pre-launch, especially if they haven't had an opportunity to play it, is insane. The only MMOs ever to have offered lifetime subs have been underperformers and the obvious intent of the developers has been to make up for poor expected box sales.
I'd go one further than Jon, though. Having seen so many awful MMO releases over the past few years I'd avoid even buying MMOs at launch. They're almost universally unfinished - Aion is the only recent exception I can think of - and there's a fair bet you'll see a free trial within 6 months of release. So why buy?
Though what's good for the consumer here is bad for the developer - even the ones not trying to rip us off with unfinished products.
Pre-order sale numbers give them an idea of how many total box sales they'll make. That tells them how many game boxes to have produced and how many players to expect, i.e. what kind of server resources they'll need for a smooth launch. If it's available via download then pre-ordering and pre-downloading is better all round because you won't have everyone trying to download it at once.
But by screwing us they've screwed themselves, which in turn screws us a bit more. It's an orgy of errors that will end up costing everyone.
I rarely ever Pre-Order a game, and then it must meet certain criteria:
1) Made by a reputable company (BioWare, Blizzard, etc).
2) I've done the research online to ensure it is most likely a game that I will not be disappointed with (such as StarCraft II).
3) The game is either popular enough to likely be sold out quickly, or has significant Pre-Order bonuses.
As to Lifetime Subscriptions: While I do agree with the overall points the article makes, I think the trend in MMO gaming is going to somewhat mitigate those points. With the current "Subscription Only" model, the article is right. Lifetime subscribers give up a great deal of their Consumer Power. However, the trend of MMOs seems to be the incorporation of Micro-Transactions (no matter how much consumers may dislike it, it does appear to be catching on). Thus, where before a Lifetimer would be adding nothing to the Developer's coffers, now that Lifetime is just as likely, if not more so, to visit the "In-Game Store" and plop down a few bucks for an In-Game item - thus, generating more revenue for the Developer. And since this person has a Lifetime subscription, they will be less likely to "jump ship" when a new MMO comes out. Thus, ensuring a continued revenue stream.
Good article. It did make me think as I have/do pre-order, but much less than I use to, and honestly nothing out that makes me want to pre-order.
Basically pre-order's now are xpac of games I already play versus the new one out. Learned that the past few years with games that after a month were not holding my interest.
As for the LTS, I wish I had bought LoTRO when it first came out, its a beautiful game, but not one I can invest tons of time in per week/month as I already pay for 2-3 other MMO's. I randomly like to pop in LoTRO, and a LTS comes up again (I was told this month possibly) I'm going to buy it. Would I buy a LTS on a new game based on hype - NO!
People that are anti-LTS, do you pay monthly? Semi-annually? Or annually for your subs? I pay semi or annually for games I play alot, monthly for those new or resubbing. Saves a few bucks and I know I'm going to play so worth it to me. MMO's are my money-sink versus console games, movies, or other forms of entertainment.
Proud member of Hammerfist Clan Gaming Community.
Currently playing: RIFT, EQ2, WoW, LoTRO
Retired: Warhammer, AoC, EQ
Waiting: SWToR & GW2
As far as preorders go in the area that I live in if it's a pc game if you don't preorder it or arn't willing to run out and pick it up within a few days of it's release you won't be getting one at all or at least for like a month. In every brick and mortar store around here they barely get more then a handful of copies of any given pc title unless it turns out to be some kind of epic AAA blockbuster and then usually the guys behind the counter make sure all thier buddies and themselves get a copy on release day and if they happen to have any left they'll put it on the shelf.
I don't know how many times I've gone to my local gamestop or bestbuy only to find the shelf empty or be told "you got lucky and got the last copy" within in a few days of release of a new title and if they would be sold out and I ask them when they'll get more in I usually just get a shrug and they'll say "I dunno"
I basically get like 80% of my games pc or console online now where in general I get beter prices and delivery to my door without any of the hassle.
Power of the consumer?
I am sorry, but I find this a hilarious concept in relation to any company running an MMO.
My experience with Everquest, WoW and a host of other MMOs is that there is little indication that they care 2 cents about individual subscriptions. I have never seen a game company react positively to anyone who has said "change this or I will cancel my subscription". However I have seen plenty of times when the person has received a Customer Service version of "sorry your leaving, don't let the door hit you on the way out".
I have a lifetime sub to LOTRO. I have gone months without playing only to return for a month. I have played on one week and off the next. I purchased the lifetime sub because it was convenient for ME. I purchased this sub because I saw the large potential (then unrealized) and had confidence that something with the LotR IP would have lasting endurance. The $199 price tag was equivalent to about 13 months at normal subscription rate. Assuming you play longer than a year (and the game lasts longer than a year) everything after that is pure gravy. I paid a premium to play as I wish and I will save hundreds of dollars with my lifetime subscription over the long term.
Now, there are some that will pay for a lifetime fee for a game sight unseen and never get their money's worth. These same people never gave more than 2 seconds thought to their (reasonably) substantial purchase. Don't blame the subscription format for that, blame the idiots who chose to buy the subscription without an ounce of due diligence. These are the same people who send money to South African money launderers and buy $6 lattes.
Don't disagree with the story but I do not regret paying for my lifetime membership of LOTRO. I wish I could have had the offer for EQ. would have saved me tuns of money on the months that I did not play. but that is OK too. Not sure I would Pre-order unless I had been in a Beta and knew what I was pre-ordering and it had a good benefit for me.
Thanks for the article. Keep it up.
Nail on the head with the article, in fact based off the crap I've seen developed from the studios who offer these kind of options I'm going to be especially cynical towards buying their hype.
Agreed with Jon. I think the MMORPG industry is the only one where paying huge sums of money for products we haven't seen yet is considered "normal". Seriously, think about it. If you were to explain to someone who has never seen or played MMOs that you paid $50 for a game you haven't even played yet, they'd tell ya how crazy the whole idea really is. Same with charging what you would spend on a polished and widely played game for another one that is not even finished, just to hope it'll improve.
I've never understood it myself, really, and I've been playing MMOs for a while now. I usually wait for the game to be out for a while or play a trial, and THEN buy it. And if I didn't like the game, I just stop playing, surely not going to support it. In every other industry, we expect to receive what we pay for, why would it be different in MMOs?
Edit: Typos
Well, my experience is a lot narrower, and deeper, than y'all's. I'm a Turbine junkie. I played AC1, I played AC2 (till it died, much-lamented), I beta-tested DDO but, never having played D&D in any other form, I wasn't impressed (I made a Cleric character, because I like playing healers; I died over and over and over; and everybody on the beta forums kept saying, "BUT! A Cleric is a powerful war-mage!" Well, mine wasn't.). Then I played LotRO in alpha 3 and all the beta and my husband and I both pre-ordered and bought lifetime memberships and we're still in LotRO.
Yes, there are things in the game I don't care for. I avoid them as I can.
I've seen lots of other games, mostly over my son's shoulder as he played them (CoH, CoV, WoW beta, several others). I was never tempted.
So if your attitude toward a game is "Yeah, I'll play this sometime, probably, for a couple months if I really like it, for one or two days if I don't, there are plenty of other fish in the sea," why, yes, then there is no point in your pre-ordering or lifetiming. Everybody to his own taste, said the old lady as she kissed the cow.
Right now we are profoundly grateful that we bought lifetime memberships to LotRO, because we're currently unemployed and broke and couldn't afford a monthly subscription at present. But we don't have to.
heh. Right-on, Jon. I find it hllarious when another uneducated consumer pays a life-time sub for a mmorpg, only to be taken for a ride.
Unfortunately, some of you in the minority might not think that consumers dont wield the power. But when I think about it, it might be the unfortunate few that either are entrenched in a socialist environment where they are prone to giving the government (studio) the power to do anything, or are just the the additional few so uneducated about Capitalism, it's scary.
Long-story short, there are probably only 2 mmo's that were ever worthy of a life-time at the time; LotRo and WoW. 2 games worthy out of perhaps 50 in the past 6 years. Yea; those are good odds.
"Here's my opinion: buying a lifetime subscription to a game completely undermines your power as a consumer. MMO development studios don't put time and resources into updating their games as much as they do out of the goodness of their hearts. They do it in order to keep making money. Ultimately, to keep people subscribing to their game. If they already have all of the money they're going to get out of you. Why then, other than out of the goodness of their hearts (or good PR, but we're all too cynical for that), would they care what your opinions are, you've already given them your power."
/bingo
I hear what yer saying but I will definetly pre-order a game that is an expansion of one I am playing and like.
I will also .. ALWAYS go for a lifetime sub for the same game if it is offered. The way I see it is I'm going to be playing this game for alot longer than what the $$ spent on a lifetime would cost.
The argument: 'buying a lifetime subscription to a game completely undermines your power as a consumer. MMO development studios don't put time and resources into updating their games' is silly!!!!! My purchase means squat as far as 'power' goes. What it does mean is I'll be saving $$$ in the long run.
Before doing either, the game should appeal in a big way as something I'll be playing for a long time...even after the main time playing its nice to be able to o back and just pop around when I feel like it.
Pre order is IMO a good way to get into a the betas and get the fun little exrtas for $5, check out the game and if it sucks your only out the $5. Lifetime for a game that may or may not suck is a big risk of your $200.00 ( seemingly standard life sub) . Personally i am on alot of private beta lists and many public lists so the only games i pre order are the ones that suck me in and i enjoy. i pre ordered cause i want the stupid pet or cool weapon. But there arent many that have done that with.
I wish i could have beta'd and preordered my wife.... o crap i guess i did, but my kids arent pets, and no cool weapons, dam got screwed with that life time sub!
pre-order used to mean something but you aren't guaranteed to get a copy anymore than the next because of employee mistakes.
everytime people cry about lifetime subscriptions it stinks highly of jealousy.
There are always exceptions. Guild Wars has a lifetime subscription type model. You pay for it and that is it. However, there are still frequent patches and events.
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On the topic of Pre-Orders:
The article didn't really address that there are two types of pre-orders. Also Jon seemed to imply that somehow pre-ordering a game also means you will have high expectations for the game, while not pre-ordering means you will have low expectations. That's just silly.
IE: You can be super excited and hyped about a game and not pre-order. Or you could just know the name of a game, and pre-order it.
Pre-ordering =/= expecatiations.
Anyway, the first type of pre-order is where you go into a retail store, put down $5 on a box with a pre-order key inside, and when the game is released you go back to the store, they credit the $5 toward the total cost of the game and it didn't cost you anything extra, except for some time.
OR
You go back to the store with your recepit, tell them you don't want to buy the game, and get your $5 back. This is the part that most people don't realize. Pre-ordering a game at a retail store does not lock you into purchasing the game, or losing your $5. You can ALWAYS get your money back for the pre-order, as long as you have proof of purchase.
The above type of pre-order also applies to services like D2D or Steam. As long as you request a refund before the game is released they will give you your money back for the pre-order purchase.
I've noticed some people feel guilty about doing this, don't. The pre-order system is set up this way on purpose. It's not shady, it's how the system works. Just FYI. The game development company does not see any money until the actual game is sold. Your pre-order deposit doesn't go anywhere until the retail game is purchased.
Really, pre-order type 1 is a win-win situation.
Now, pre-order type 2 is something that I will personally never do. Paying full price for a game directly from the development company before the game is released.
In most of these cases the pre-order price has been non-refundable even if you request a refund before the game is released. This, to me, is a very shady practice and I would never pay for something before I get to see if I like it or not.
Obviously there is a major difference between these two types of pre-order systems.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
Yes.
Yes.
And yes!
More and more, we are paying for sub-par products. We vote with our wallets. Let's do a better job of voting.
Important facts:
1. Free to Play games are poorly made.
2. Casuals are not all idiots, but idiots call themselves casuals.
3. Great solo and group content are not mutually exclusive, but they suffer when one is shoved into the mold of the other. The same is true of PvP and PvE.
4. Community is more important than you think.
Just FYI for all, if you pre order from gamestop, put your $5 down and not actually buy the game cause maybe you didnt enjoy the beta or just changed your mind, your cash stays in the system and can be refunded anytime or applied to another purchase kind of like "store credit"
I know people hate the low ball buy backs ( trade ins) that places like gamestop offer (we know this excludes PC) but if you have console games collecting dust, why not get something for them vs nothing? Helps me recycle some money spent on alot of my kids DS games and WII games. Also i think buying used games that they promise will work or your money back, is wise. Why not save a few bucks? And they give 10% off used games.
On the topic of Lifetime Subscriptions:
I bought 2 lifetime subscriptions to LOTRO when it was released. One for me and one for my wife. We still play.
It was one of the best decisions I've made. We've saved $652 and counting. That's nothing to sneeze at.
I definitely do not agree with Jon's assumption that games with lifetime subscriptions do not update their games. LOTRO has had tons of updates over the last 3 years. They have multiple festivals each year where new, unique mini-games are available, not to mention 2 full expansions and tons of smaller book updates.
Also Guild Wars is another game where they don't even charge a subscription, they get all of their money from the box sales, there isn't even an option to subscribe, yet they have had a lot of free updates since the initial release.
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
I dont Play Video games
I just like the articles on MMORPG.com
I have lifetime subscriptions for Lotro and STO. Mostly it's been a mistake. The Lotro one I don't feell too bad about because I love Turbine and even if I'm not playing the game I appreciate it for what it is and would do anything to support them (I'm an ex Asheron's Call player and they've earned my loyalty).
STO on the other hand makes me sick to my stomach. I don't know why I did it, I've tried two Cryptic games before it (CoH and CO) and I was not into either of them. I guess it was an expensive and wasteful impulse buy. The pre-order trinkets helped lure me in. I don't think I'll ever play a Cryptic game again.
If Blizzard offered a lifetime subcription now (5-6 years after launch of WoW) in the 3 year / $300 range I think I would get it because the game keeps evolving and even if I don't play it seriously I play in spurts and would happily support Blizzard by putting my money in their hands.
Edit: ha! member since 03' and first post. Go figure - I guess this topic just pushed my button.
I've never purchased a life-time sub.
I understand completely the marketing side of it, and the intial capital it offers games producers.
The only ways I could justify purchasing a life-time sub is either
a) the game promises to be so great that you are confident that you will be playing the game for a long time
or
b) you realisitically think that you will be playing the game for a period of time which makes the life-time sub more financially attractive than paying monthly (i.e. a game is $15 a month or $200 life-time sub). If you see yourself playing for 14 months or more, you may as well get the lifetime.
or
c) It's the only way to get some attractive offer like early-start, beta access etc. I don't get too excited by these offers - pay a couple hundred dollars to be a tester and some starter equipment? I think not.
I guess I do get a little irritated when people buy life-time subs and then moan after a couple of months. It's called a 'lifetime' sub for a reason and if you're moaning now you probably didn't take the decision seriously enough in the first place.
Pre-orders: Tbh, I don't quite have Jons' aversion to pre-orders. I won't pre-order something before I absolutely want it, but often there are incentives to pre-ordering. I've lived in the UK and Australia, and often you can save money off the purchase price by pre-ordering - whether you're pre-ordering digitally direct from the games developers, from a game-shop website who are going to mail you the game, or from a walk-in store. In these 2 countries PC games are becoming more and more difficult to track down in walk-in stores as digital distribution become more popular. A lot of stores will not stock games that aren't mainstream, and slightly obscure games can be difficult to locate. Most recently I pre-ordered CO from a walk-in store in Aus. This was a specialist gaming shop with staff who played MMOs and they had never heard of it. I'm pretty sure that if I hadn't pre-ordered it I would have had a good hunt on my hands to find a boxed copy.
I guess the moral of the story is that both these options are tactics by games developers/producers to encourage you, the gamer, to either outlay money before you receive your goods or to outlay more money and subscribe for longer than you might normally. To encourage you to do so they offer incentives such as early access, equipment, reduced subscriptions (based on the length of your subscription) etc.
Just because something is a blatant marketing or capital raising ploy doesn't mean it's without it's benefits , however! I will probably pre-order SWTOR, and DCUO for that matter. DCUO won't be getting a life-time sub, but if the lifetime sub for SWTOR equates to around 12 months of subs...I may have a decision to make;)