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My Thank You thread to Starvault
kaydinv
Member Posts: 208
I posted this on the Mortal Online official forums in the General Mortal Online Discussions section and thought I would post it here so that it could get flamed to death...
It's been a long time since I've played an MMO that is fun. MO has a lot (seriously, a lot) of issues/bugs and it looks really far from done from my point of view, but from what I can tell of what is available, this game has a lot of potential. It has a lot of heart and it's clear Starvault has put a lot of effort into making this game work.
There's even a lot of features that I disagree with (thieving is a pointless griefing mechanic, and this is coming from a UO vet), but there is no denying that this game is set up for a lot of fun. I've been running around Nave(?) with a bunch of friends, many of them also UO vets, and it just feels like it did the first time I played an MMO. Getting lost in a game that actually feels like a world, finding interesting landmarks, developing a character slowly into what I want as a character, etc...If it weren't for all the bugs, lack of content (I'm finding it terribly hard to find a dungeon or something) and lack of polish I would be in heaven right now. Those things keep me down, and a bit skeptical, especially hearing that you guys have planned to release the game this month when it is clearly not ready to go live. I can see where the game is going, and where it partially lyes at this point and that sort of cancels out all the bad.
So, since there's a lot of negative posts I just wanted to say excellent work and thank you. Hopefully you guys can pull it off.
Speaking to the other players: What do you guys say? Isn't the heart there? Isn't it clear that they've worked hard on this and that it could be something great with time?
If you're interesting in replying to the original thread, you can find it on the MO forums.
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
Comments
Thanks for your impressions. I don't think anyone here will argue that it's free of bugs/issues, but I'm sure you''ll soon see that some see nothing but the problems. One criticism I have is that you really should have linked to the original. http://www.mortalonline.com/forums/40688-thank-you-starvault.html
I'm sure you will find the critics here much more verbose than SHOE has been so far.
Hahahah, thanks for your reply. I didn't link to the original thread only because I thought there was a rule against it here.
I agree, it seems some people can only complain without showing even a little bit of enjoyment from playing the game. I would understand more if the game was released at this point with a monthly fee, but for now I can't justify the kind of criticism I've seen.
What to do, eh?
_________________________________
"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
I love the game, it takes me back to when MMORPGs weren't just glorified single player theme parks with a chat box. The FPV put me off trying it however it's very immersive and fun and right now the game is in beta and F2P so I think everyone should give it a shot. Once they upgrade UE 3.5 and maybe intergrate speedtree they'll implement the features they have waiting to go in, if the desync is squashed.
As for the people hating on it all I can say is that they have issues, I'm not sure what they are but they feel a need to hate on Star Vault and MO to the point of hating on things that they believe SV might do in the future.
There are bugs and unfinished features but this is beta and I'm more than happy to play it and see how things unfold, I already have my MO box and have burnt several copies of a certain theme park MMORPG as offerings to the MMORPG gods in the hope that MO gets fixed up quick!
"Of all tyrannies, a tyranny sincerely exercised for the good of its victims may be the most oppressive. It would be better to live under robber barons than under omnipotent moral busybodies. The robber baron's cruelty may sometimes sleep, his cupidity may at some point be satiated; but those who torment us for our own good will torment us without end for they do so with the approval of their own conscience"
CS Lewis
Aye, I feel the same way. This game really has that feeling of a living, breathing world and I'm actually having fun really exploring. Exploration is something that has been missing in MMO's for such a long time. You can't explore in a game that sends you everywhere through quests and has areas segregated by drastically different level monsters. In MO though, you can totally explore and it pays off much more than the vast majority of MMO's out there. It hasn't quite reached it's potential even in this area, but it's still better than what we've had recently in the worlds of MMO's.
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"Fixed it. Because that wall of text attacked me, killed me and looted my body..."
-George "sniperg" Light
I also really love the direction Star Vault is taking with the game. Sure there are lots of problems that need to be addressed, but that is to be expected at this stage of the game. I can see where they are going with it and what they are trying to do. The game truly does have a lot of potential if people will just give them the time they need to pull it off.
I have seen massive improvements since I joined in beta block B, so I have some faith that they can pull this off eventually.
LOL... What stage would that be? Its not like the game still has months/years of developement. If they had fixed the sync/lag issues it would have release LAST month.
A blank canvas has potential...
I win!!! LOL@U
Just look at virtually every MMO that has released over the last few years. There are usually major problems at release. I'm actually glad they aren't releasing while there are still glaring problems like the desync problem.
These guys don't have the kind of resources most AAA companies do. They are small indie team and they have done great considering what they had to work with. It should be expected that it will take longer for them to solve some issues than it does other companies. I am the first one to admit they have a long way to go, but I am at least giving them a chance to get there. And the game is hardly a blank slate at this point...
I don't flame people for their honest opinions. The only ones that I raise an eyebrow at are the ones from new accounts that come to either praise or condemn the game. There are an amazing amount of people who make a first post here extoling the virtues of the game and company.. and then are never seen again. You of course don't fit this category.. so anyone that would flame you just for your opinion has issues of their own.
I do, however have a dramatically different opinion of the game, the company, and the future of both. I think that after you have spent some more time running around Nave you will come to see just how empty the game is, but that is simply my opinion and you are of course entitled to your own.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
A blank canvas would mean they have nothing, that's not true or representative of the actual product. They do have features that need a ton of work, I also agree with the above poster in that I don't expect as much of them as I would a AAA company.
Most sandboxes release lacking most of their features, SWG released with basically nothing but it's skill system and crafting system in place. Everything else was added in slowly (oh so slowly), over time. Ryzom was out right terrible in OB and during its early post release days. Eve was only a simple shell of a game that barely worked when it released, I could go on and on here.
Considering this company doesn't even have half of what companies like SOE had they've done a decent job in getting what they have done. Could they do better? I can't say, I haven't watched them work. Could they be more professional? Yes, the problem is they really aren't professionals are they? More akin to hobbyists who went a little further than most.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
From my viewpoint there are 4 HUGE issues looming. Stuff like lack of content is much secondary to these...
1. Desync... self-explanatory
2. Lag/Crashing... Much of this is written of as desync... but PvP games need to be able to handle large scale combat. The current desync issues prevent this from even being seriously tested. I can't imagine that the game will be able to handle 100 players casting spells and riding horses/leading pets into combat... When Guild vs Guild combat fails... so will the game.
3. Hacking... Massive issue with no tools demonstrated to handle it. This will ruin a FFA PvP game if not controlled from day 1. Banning when caught? OK... every company to ever exist has stated this as a policy, but without the tools to back up the threat it rings quite hollow.
4. Exploiting/Imbalance... I lump these together. There are currently huge exploits or weapon/skill imbalances that exist. These have the same result on the playerbase that #3 (hacking) does. FFA-PvP games need to ensure that the playingfield is level
Once you get past these 4 issues you can start to make the argument about giving it time to grow.. create content.. and become a real game. Unless these issues are magically addressed before launch, these 4 issues will prevent the game from ever getting to that stage. I'm not Nostradamus, but I think these 4 are proven gamekillers. A game that launches with even 1 of these issues as a known factor is doomed. All 4 currently apply to MO a mere 2 weeks from the end of their latest release window.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
Even if all the lag, desync, hacking, and imbalances were fixed -- the game simply has no content and the features and content it does have, basically suck. It's a bland, boring, empty world with nothing to do and no tools to affect it.
Oh I totally agree, but I think all those could be related as a matter of opinion. The 4 issues I listed really have nothing to do with personal opinions but are pretty much non-debatable gamekillers. If those 4 are solved (again.. 2 weeks left in their latest release window and all 4 exist) one can start to have an honest debate about the nature of the gameplay itself.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
I would expect them to put little of their attention on content at this moment in its development. Since as others have posted, the 4 game killers (which I would agree with) would be higher up on the 'fix it' list. Content can be added as the game matures.
Well thats good to hear... Mortal Online sounds like it could be fun but I'm not realy into games that allow griefing. If devs are going to allow jerks to thrive then I just won't play. I may try it but only if they've got some free trial or something and I don't feel that its right for me to rush on to a beta server and judge the game so we'll see if I ever get on Mortal or not.
Issues #1 and #2 are actively being addressed right now and are the reason that Mortal has not already launched. They are currently devoting the vast majority of their efforts to overcoming these problems. Also, its not like problems such as these aren't common in other MMOs around launch time. Companies always end up being unprepared for the full load of players and often have to make last minute emergency adjustments to net code to fix problems... I honestly don't see how this is different.
Issue #3 can only be corrected on a case by case basis as individual hacks are discovered. I have no doubt that SV will work towards fixing any and all hacks, but right now it is just not as high of a priority as getting the game to work in the first place (issues #1 and #2).
Issue #4 is the same story. Obviously they know these types of problems must be addressed, but right now there are bigger priorities.
They are working on the most important of your listed issues right now. You can't really expect hacking and exploiting to be completely addressed before launch as many of the hacks and exploits haven't even been discovered yet. No game in the history of gaming has ever been able to prevent hacking and exploiting before launch. It is a problem in each and every MMO.
Issue #1 is being worked on. That doesn't mean it's fixed. Same for Issue #2 although they really can't be sure they are working on it until they fix the desync. How many 100 vs 100 battles have been tested? 50 vs 50 with spells mounts and pets? Has it been done enough to launch a game where this is a key feature? Confident that it will work as hoped? As for your point about the full load of players being unknown... I would have to disagree. The vast majority of people that are going to play the game are doing so right now. This is very different from the standard MMO launch.
#3 and #4... there CAN BE NO BIGGER PRIORITIES! If the game launches with the current level of hacking, exploiting and imbalance it will be DOA. Noone is saying they have to be 100% hack-proof, but this is a HUGE issue right now.. anyone who has scanned the forums for the last few weeks would know this. It's overlooked because "it's beta" but once release comes people are not going to stand for constant cheating. Just wait until people start to mass report all the folks macroing...
Lest you doubt the frequency of these issues see below reason for closing a recent cheating thread:
#2 (permalink)
kootenay vbmenu_register("postmenu_824386", true);
Lictor
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Canada
Rep Power: 5
You can check out this thread for starters. Right because it is open beta, the devs I believe decided not to have their anti-hacking program active, so people won't know how it works, and make a work around for it.
So I suggest you check out that link. And do what is suggested in it. And the hacking/cheating/exploiting will be looked at.
Also going to close this as there are many, and I mean many threads already on this.
__________________
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the word the Lorax seems perfectly clear. UNLESS someone like you cares a whole aweful lot, nothing is going to get better. It's not
The Lorax's laws
Anyhow.. I stand by the statement that these are 4 gamekillers and the survival chance of any game that launches with even one of these existing in a significant way is slim to none. Currently.. 2 weeks from the end of the latest stated release window.. all 4 are large issues. Resolve them all and we can start to discuss the core gameplay issues which Hercules mentioned.
All time classic MY NEW FAVORITE POST! (Keep laying those bricks)
"I should point out that no other company has shipped out a beta on a disc before this." - Official Mortal Online Lead Community Moderator
Proudly wearing the Harbinger badge since Dec 23, 2017.
Coined the phrase "Role-Playing a Development Team" January 2018
"Oddly Slap is the main reason I stay in these forums." - Mystichaze April 9th 2018
"the devs I believe decided not to have their anti-hacking program active, so people won't know how it works, and make a work around for it."
That has to be the most ridiculous thing Ive ever heard and seems to be pulled out of his backside. SV can't even code a patcher and we're supposed to believe they have an adequate cheat/hacking system. As we all know, anti-cheat system can play havok on clients and servers. So SV plans to just turn the thing on at launch and hope for ther best? (if they really had one)
MO is what it is, there's no secret client, no secret cheat/hack system, no secret high resolution textures...
Assuming MO had cheat/hack software
, what would prevent people from "making a work around" after launch?
I'm sure SV has plans for a cheat/hack system at some point, but to believe they have a functioning one laying in wait is naive.
I win!!! LOL@U
Remember when Adventurine said that a lot of their features were "turned off" and turned out they didn't even exist? Yeah I think that's what happened here.
He who keeps his cool best wins.
I'm really enjoying the game, i agree with most of you, especially on the fact that themepark MMO's slowly deprived virtual worlds of everything, every challenge, exploration, every interaction first with people then with the environment. It's horrible, someone should stop them, kill them, do something to their eyes, i dunno.
Mortal has terrible lag(i have to launch the game 3 times before i get in) and some professions lack content, but im a slag hauler since 2 months now and i didnt even get to refining yet, it's amazingly complex and realistic and exciting.
If every profession gets the degree of complexity of the hauler, AND if they give tools to fighters and adventurers to fight and conquer and sail and get together and form parties and gangs and maybe get political on areas, all of this just as complex as hauling, it's gonna be the best and most sophisticated sandbox fantasy game ever existed. Just omg.
I really hope the game prospers, if it does, we will see INCREDIBLE things, imo.
HAving said that, i m tired of fantasy sandbox, it's time to get full sci-fi simulations.
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I would say that the "small, indie team" argument is no longer valid as SV are releasing MO at AAA prices. AAA price means AAA game, otherwise it's just overpriced surely? If SV is running on a shoestring budget then that should mean less money to recoup from sales and subscriptions.
So as long as it satisfies its target audience better than STO we're good? http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/forum/880/General-Discussion.html
Seriously, AAA doesn't mean a whole lot, since there are arguably 2 AAA games that are F2P (Free realms and DDO). "Small, Indie team" can help to explain their development cycle/speed. As to whether that justifies the cost, that is a decision everone has to make on their own.
^this!
I am all with you there!
Your ability to explore would probably be because theres nothing else in the world (NPCs and mobs) to stop you. Yeah, theres other players, but so few as to not be a problem once you move away from th starter towns. Its just hills and trees and rocks.
PAST: UO-SWG-DAOC-WOW-DDO-VG-AOC-WAR-FE-DFO-LOTRO-RIFT-GW2
PRESENT: Nothing
FUTURE: ESO
Agreed. Wish MMO companies would learn from past companies' mistakes, unfortunately they do not.
Those 4 issues will kill a game, I wish the company luck never-the-less, because it is the last attempt at a real MMO based on exploration and fun, not themeparks and gear chasing.
The "premium price blah blah blah" arguement is the old one.
I paid the SAME price for an album from an indie artist from their own label as I did for an album by a major recording artist on a major record label.
I just can't believe the audacity of these companies to charge for "pre-orders", but is it their fault or our own for continuing to pay to play betas? Every company is doing it now-a-days, it is quiet sad.
But at least SV is letting people play the beta for free and see for themselves how everything is going rather than hiding behind a NDA and launching a broken game then charging monthly fees for it.