They are probably going to have MT's for buying additional content from my impressions i.e. chapters/mini expansions. Telling a story is going to be pretty hard if new content is only going to be added in full on expansions which can take a few years to develop so adding content in small expansions/chapters makes sense. Then again I could be completely wrong but its just my gut feeling.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
I don't have any problem with MT as long as they don't affect in game performance (combat, levelling, etc.). If it's just cosmetic, name changes, etc. then whatever. I think MTs are a good thing for any game/mmo if done right as it will help make the game more profitable. This would mean the game stays around longer, new development/expansions, etc.
Obviously, if they make uber weapons, armor, etc as MTs then this game will just suck..
I have no problem with an item store as long as they are up front about it, and what they intend to use it for. i.e. I don't want to see game breaking items in there, but if they want vanity items I am cool with that. Most games in some way have it or disguise it via "card games"
They are probably going to have MT's for buying additional content from my impressions i.e. chapters/mini expansions. Telling a story is going to be pretty hard if new content is only going to be added in full on expansions which can take a few years to develop so adding content in small expansions/chapters makes sense. Then again I could be completely wrong but its just my gut feeling.
oh that would so kill the game for me, didnt champions online have that?
"did you buy the "instance"?"
"no"
"then you cant group with us"
should be released for free so everyone can get it, or in expansion
anything that enhances stats, xp generation etc has nothing to do in a p2p mmo and i wont support a game taht has it
Every modern mmo has MT. I don't really see the issue.
Not true at all. There are tons of games with no MT, what are you thinking?
I was going to say about the same thing as Xodus since I can only think of one game that does not offer some sort of way to spend real money to get in-game items of some sort. Most games have at least some sort of pet or mount that you can buy for real money or a collectible card game attached that gives you items. Only game that comes to mind without anything like this is Asheron's Call and it has been so long since I played that it may also have added some sort of RMT.
I'll be upset if they link a lot of appearance stuff to an item store. To me it would NOT be cool if I have pay 5 bucks to make my Jedi look how he ought to (very often such things are various iconic looks). Some appearence stuff is ok (like the pets in WoW), but not the iconic things.
I really doubt this is going to be a dreaded P2P + Microstransactions For Significant Stuff model though.
Microtransactions and item stores IMO represent very short thinking on the companies part. You would make more money in the long run by offering that item in a hard to do quest or by a crafting proffession than you would from an item store. If it's in a quest that requires a lot of team work then you've added another "famous" dungeon or place that people look forward to doing because it is so challenging. If you offer it as something to be crafted, then you've just made crafting in the game more important and thus more crafter type players will want to subscribe to your game. Being able to buy it for $5.00 just means that the player walks around with a mark on them and it only adds to the perception that you're trying to milk them for everything.
I don't care if they have an item store in addition to the monthly subscription, as long as the item store is for cosmetic purposes only (if people want to have a pink light saber with the same stats of my blue one, and are willing to pay $5 for that, more power to them). I'm not ok with items that affect gameplay in any way (experience, health or 'mana' potions; increased loot drops, extra quests, extra companions, extra storylines, etc)
I will play the game regardless, but I don't think there has been any proof indicating that they are planning to do this. It is just conjecture at this point.
Lets give them some time to actually announce something official relating to their payment model before making assumptions.
I can understand having to pay for transferring a character to a different server or a namechange.
But I wont play if SWTOR has an item mall with ingame items. No matter what those items are. Because that would show that the sub doesnt pay for access of the complete game. The complete game will always be sub+whatever they have in mind for item mall.
I can understand having to pay for transferring a character to a different server or a namechange.
But I wont play if SWTOR has an item mall with ingame items. No matter what those items are. Because that would show that the sub doesnt pay for access of the complete game. The complete game will always be sub+whatever they have in mind for item mall.
So you'd prefer if the items weren't there at all.
See, it's not that the items would be there for free without microtransactions. The income from microtransactions is what's paying for the artists/coders needed to create those items in the first place. Without microtransactions they just wouldn't be there. See it like this:
Normal game or
Normal game + extra items + microtransactions
There is no 'Normal game + extra items' option.
I support microtransactions, but like I said, as long as it's just cosmetic items (cute pets, hair styles, scars, beards, moustaches, ship insignias, cape designs, etc)
Well, we all know what happened to Star Trek...good luck to all you fans/believers and whatnot.
But if SToR really wants to be the game that brings the "magic" back to MMOs (and gain a loyal subscriber base), then I would advise them to set an example for all MMOs to come and show their integrity and that they give a damn about their players and stay away from stuff like Item shops.
Though, let's be truthful...most are going to buy it anyway even with item shop, so I will make sure to stay far, far away. -Goes off to watch all six Star Wars movies and whine some more about all my hopes for this game being crushed-
If what you mean by MT like they did with Dragons Age, Stone, Warden's Keep, etc. Then it would be rather greedy since they will most likely have a monthly fee.
I can understand having to pay for transferring a character to a different server or a namechange.
But I wont play if SWTOR has an item mall with ingame items. No matter what those items are. Because that would show that the sub doesnt pay for access of the complete game. The complete game will always be sub+whatever they have in mind for item mall.
So you'd prefer if the items weren't there at all.
See, it's not that the items would be there for free without microtransactions. The income from microtransactions is what's paying for the artists/coders needed to create those items in the first place. Without microtransactions they just wouldn't be there. See it like this:
Normal game or
Normal game + extra items + microtransactions
There is no 'Normal game + extra items' option.
I support microtransactions, but like I said, as long as it's just cosmetic items (cute pets, hair styles, scars, beards, moustaches, ship insignias, cape designs, etc)
That is extremely speculatory,firstly because there is nothing liek an itme shop confrimed in SW:TOR and secondly because no one can prove what would and wouldn't be in the game with or without an item shop.Plenty of non item shop games integrate fluff items freely into their games as well as functional items.I would prefer a company put it's efforts into the real game instead of coming up with ways to fill the item shop with new stuff for peopel to buy constantly as evidenced in f2p games and STO recently.
Item stores are the easiest money making system in MMOs to make exploititive without notice and at any time.You may think you trust Bioware not to become so,but do you trust EA?
Well in my opinion they could have some MT like "tokens" for name change and server change and stuff like that not MT for OP gear. Cause in the end if your paying a monthly sub you dont wanna see mister richy rich running around with his MT lightsaber cutting down every1 that pays monthly sub and not spending unreasonable amount of cash on the MT.
So yes i agree on having MT for stuff like Name change or maybe "Outfits" that only is appearal... could work
This voices.. This voices i hear them.. And when they talk i follow i follow..
OMG seriously is this really a discussion I can't belive it....... wait i'm positng here nOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! i got sucked in. Anyway i'm with the side that thinks you don't know tell you know. I have nothing against item shops for RL cash unless they have items in them that tweak a character and you can't get them any other way. If its stuff like clothing and exp potions what does it matter or even materials for crafting if your a lazy person as long as gathering the materials in game isn't horrible to do.
Item store + monthly sub is going to be the new pricing model to keep games at 15$ a month with inflation and poor economy. Those who can pay for the extra flare will offset the cost for those who can not, and therefor balance the cost of the game across the base.
I will play the game as long as they do not sell power within their store as I would do even in f2p games. The market is changing and the games that can adapt do, and those who can not simply die. WoW has recently shown a prime example of people apparently being fine with the gradual introduction of an item store with a pay to play model.
If they can keep it fairly balanced and nothing absurdly costed (IE more then the physical game for any item I am fine with that). The revenue stream coming in is a necessity to continue development, and I understand that and support it full heartedly if it is what is needed to make a great game. Far to many crappy games have rushed out because they have not looked outside of the box for pricing models, and I think that it needs to end so that quality is the best avenue in the future which leads to in game item sales which puts less stress on requiring hype on box sales. In the end if the game is good then the box sales will be steady, and it will all work out.
In the end I hope that it is a fun game, and they deliver on their claims regardless of the pay structure.
Microtransactions and item stores IMO represent very short thinking on the companies part. You would make more money in the long run by offering that item in a hard to do quest or by a crafting proffession than you would from an item store. If it's in a quest that requires a lot of team work then you've added another "famous" dungeon or place that people look forward to doing because it is so challenging. If you offer it as something to be crafted, then you've just made crafting in the game more important and thus more crafter type players will want to subscribe to your game. Being able to buy it for $5.00 just means that the player walks around with a mark on them and it only adds to the perception that you're trying to milk them for everything.
It is sure looking like a LOT of MMO players want to be milked, though.
I think you are wrong that it is unwise financially to offer stuff in a cash shop. When Blizzard does it, you know they have crunched the numbers.
I am growing more and more jaded about the whole industry. I got into MMOs because I liked playing RPGs with other people, but the quality of people is sinking, and the games are more and more a cash grab.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Microtransactions and item stores IMO represent very short thinking on the companies part. You would make more money in the long run by offering that item in a hard to do quest or by a crafting proffession than you would from an item store. If it's in a quest that requires a lot of team work then you've added another "famous" dungeon or place that people look forward to doing because it is so challenging. If you offer it as something to be crafted, then you've just made crafting in the game more important and thus more crafter type players will want to subscribe to your game. Being able to buy it for $5.00 just means that the player walks around with a mark on them and it only adds to the perception that you're trying to milk them for everything.
It is sure looking like a LOT of MMO players want to be milked, though.
I think you are wrong that it is unwise financially to offer stuff in a cash shop. When Blizzard does it, you know they have crunched the numbers.
I am growing more and more jaded about the whole industry. I got into MMOs because I liked playing RPGs with other people, but the quality of people is sinking, and the games are more and more a cash grab.
I actually think if TOR had a true-blue item shop like F2P games AND a sub fee, then the game would do very badly (given the IP and devs). I certainly wouldn't play that. There are cash shops and there are CASH SHOPS. Some cash shop stuff wouldn't bother me (pets, though that would be odd), other cash shop stuff would bother me a lot (mounts, iconic appearances, etc) but I might still play (just not do cash shop stuff). I do think the more cash shop stuff TOR has the more it will hurt its sub numbers overall, but some mild stuff probably won't make a big difference, but if they charged for significant content stuff (like story arcs as opposed to pets), then they'll get hurt. Maybe the profit margin would be better that way though, that's hard for me to call.
I agree with you to an extent about where the industry seems to be going. I think there will be some games that avoid this though (I think FFXIV might and obviously GW2 will).
Anyhow, it we can't really say what TOR is going to look like. They haven't decided. Hopefully if they do have some sort of cash shop it is just kept to non-iconic fluff that doesn't matter.
I actually think if TOR had a true-blue item shop like F2P games AND a sub fee, then the game would do very badly (given the IP and devs). I certainly wouldn't play that. There are cash shops and there are CASH SHOPS. Some cash shop stuff wouldn't bother me (pets, though that would be odd), other cash shop stuff would bother me a lot (mounts, iconic appearances, etc) but I might still play (just not do cash shop stuff). I do think the more cash shop stuff TOR has the more it will hurt its sub numbers overall, but some mild stuff probably won't make a big difference, but if they charged for significant content stuff (like story arcs as opposed to pets), then they'll get hurt. Maybe the profit margin would be better that way though, that's hard for me to call.
I agree with you to an extent about where the industry seems to be going. I think there will be some games that avoid this though (I think FFXIV might and obviously GW2 will).
Anyhow, it we can't really say what TOR is going to look like. They haven't decided. Hopefully if they do have some sort of cash shop it is just kept to non-iconic fluff that doesn't matter.
If they have a shop at all - I won't even be trying it. No matter how the cash shops start - they end up selling game-effect stuff.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"They are probably going to have MT's for buying additional content from my impressions i.e. chapters/mini expansions. Telling a story is going to be pretty hard if new content is only going to be added in full on expansions which can take a few years to develop so adding content in small expansions/chapters makes sense. Then again I could be completely wrong but its just my gut feeling. "
I can see this probably being the most likely scenario if it even is the case at all. Considering they have mini expansions for their rpgs. Better than waiting X amount of time for a full blown expansion to be released. Also they could just have it in there like Blizzard did for WoW. Where simple fluff pets and now fluff mount can be added after the game has hit its peak to generate a little revenue to keep it going. I don't view non game changing items as price gouging especially as long as they can keep the quality of the ingame items up. There are a ton of cool mounts and pets in WoW but the Item Mall just has something "special" if you are willing to spend extra on it. Its your money spend it how you want. WoW has a trading card game where people have spent $100s to get a special card. Would you throw a fit if SWtoR announced they were releasing a trading card game as well with the game and special non game influencing items could be found?
Though you have to take into consideration that if you read all the user agreements for just about any game, I'm pretty sure you would find this in most games. Because most games offer fee based services on server transfers, name changes, ect... You know one of those legal side notes that prevent them from getting sued over something they didn't say they were going to do with a game they developed and tricked you into playing and tore the money from your pocket and twisted your arm until you said yes.
$15 bucks a month times oh.. we'll say for now 300k subs (for the sake of argument). What does that come to math wizzes? It comes to $4,500,000. Thats a month... and thats just assuming they only have 300k and not more. They do not need mircrotransactions at all. It's more than enough to keep the servers running, broadband running, paying employees etc. And heck, we aren't even talking about the inital sales from the box. A one time $15,000,000? (subs not added)
If they do both a basic sub and mircotransactions it will be pure greed and this game will sink faster than a sack of bricks being thrown into the sea. As many are obviousy totally against MT.
And as many have said.. if they even think about trying it, i wont even give the game a chance, no matter what form they have it. a monthly sub + intital box payment should pay for all content, period.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci
Comments
They are probably going to have MT's for buying additional content from my impressions i.e. chapters/mini expansions. Telling a story is going to be pretty hard if new content is only going to be added in full on expansions which can take a few years to develop so adding content in small expansions/chapters makes sense. Then again I could be completely wrong but its just my gut feeling.
Water cooled Intel Corei7 920 D0 Stepping OC'd 4.3GHz - 6GB Corsair Dominator GT RAM 2000Mhz - ASUS RAGE II EXTREME X58 Mobo - 2x HD 5870 in Crossfire X, OC'd 0.9Ghz core 1.3Ghz RAM - Dell 2407WFP Flat Panel LCD 24" 1920x1200
if theres no subscription
I don't have any problem with MT as long as they don't affect in game performance (combat, levelling, etc.). If it's just cosmetic, name changes, etc. then whatever. I think MTs are a good thing for any game/mmo if done right as it will help make the game more profitable. This would mean the game stays around longer, new development/expansions, etc.
Obviously, if they make uber weapons, armor, etc as MTs then this game will just suck..
I have no problem with an item store as long as they are up front about it, and what they intend to use it for. i.e. I don't want to see game breaking items in there, but if they want vanity items I am cool with that. Most games in some way have it or disguise it via "card games"
oh that would so kill the game for me, didnt champions online have that?
"did you buy the "instance"?"
"no"
"then you cant group with us"
should be released for free so everyone can get it, or in expansion
anything that enhances stats, xp generation etc has nothing to do in a p2p mmo and i wont support a game taht has it
I was going to say about the same thing as Xodus since I can only think of one game that does not offer some sort of way to spend real money to get in-game items of some sort. Most games have at least some sort of pet or mount that you can buy for real money or a collectible card game attached that gives you items. Only game that comes to mind without anything like this is Asheron's Call and it has been so long since I played that it may also have added some sort of RMT.
Server transfers, name changes and physical alterations are considered to be examples of microtransactions. most subscription based games have these.
So to me it's understandable if something along the lines of microtransaction or game store is in the ToS.
"If you're going to act like a noob, I'll treat you like one." -Caskio
Adventurers wear fancy pants!!!
I'll be upset if they link a lot of appearance stuff to an item store. To me it would NOT be cool if I have pay 5 bucks to make my Jedi look how he ought to (very often such things are various iconic looks). Some appearence stuff is ok (like the pets in WoW), but not the iconic things.
I really doubt this is going to be a dreaded P2P + Microstransactions For Significant Stuff model though.
Microtransactions and item stores IMO represent very short thinking on the companies part. You would make more money in the long run by offering that item in a hard to do quest or by a crafting proffession than you would from an item store. If it's in a quest that requires a lot of team work then you've added another "famous" dungeon or place that people look forward to doing because it is so challenging. If you offer it as something to be crafted, then you've just made crafting in the game more important and thus more crafter type players will want to subscribe to your game. Being able to buy it for $5.00 just means that the player walks around with a mark on them and it only adds to the perception that you're trying to milk them for everything.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I don't care if they have an item store in addition to the monthly subscription, as long as the item store is for cosmetic purposes only (if people want to have a pink light saber with the same stats of my blue one, and are willing to pay $5 for that, more power to them). I'm not ok with items that affect gameplay in any way (experience, health or 'mana' potions; increased loot drops, extra quests, extra companions, extra storylines, etc)
I will play the game regardless, but I don't think there has been any proof indicating that they are planning to do this. It is just conjecture at this point.
Lets give them some time to actually announce something official relating to their payment model before making assumptions.
I can understand having to pay for transferring a character to a different server or a namechange.
But I wont play if SWTOR has an item mall with ingame items. No matter what those items are. Because that would show that the sub doesnt pay for access of the complete game. The complete game will always be sub+whatever they have in mind for item mall.
So you'd prefer if the items weren't there at all.
See, it's not that the items would be there for free without microtransactions. The income from microtransactions is what's paying for the artists/coders needed to create those items in the first place. Without microtransactions they just wouldn't be there. See it like this:
Normal game or
Normal game + extra items + microtransactions
There is no 'Normal game + extra items' option.
I support microtransactions, but like I said, as long as it's just cosmetic items (cute pets, hair styles, scars, beards, moustaches, ship insignias, cape designs, etc)
Well, we all know what happened to Star Trek...good luck to all you fans/believers and whatnot.
But if SToR really wants to be the game that brings the "magic" back to MMOs (and gain a loyal subscriber base), then I would advise them to set an example for all MMOs to come and show their integrity and that they give a damn about their players and stay away from stuff like Item shops.
Though, let's be truthful...most are going to buy it anyway even with item shop, so I will make sure to stay far, far away. -Goes off to watch all six Star Wars movies and whine some more about all my hopes for this game being crushed-
If what you mean by MT like they did with Dragons Age, Stone, Warden's Keep, etc. Then it would be rather greedy since they will most likely have a monthly fee.
The monthly fee should cover for content patches.
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SW:TOR|War40K:DMO|GW2
That is extremely speculatory,firstly because there is nothing liek an itme shop confrimed in SW:TOR and secondly because no one can prove what would and wouldn't be in the game with or without an item shop.Plenty of non item shop games integrate fluff items freely into their games as well as functional items.I would prefer a company put it's efforts into the real game instead of coming up with ways to fill the item shop with new stuff for peopel to buy constantly as evidenced in f2p games and STO recently.
Item stores are the easiest money making system in MMOs to make exploititive without notice and at any time.You may think you trust Bioware not to become so,but do you trust EA?
Well in my opinion they could have some MT like "tokens" for name change and server change and stuff like that not MT for OP gear. Cause in the end if your paying a monthly sub you dont wanna see mister richy rich running around with his MT lightsaber cutting down every1 that pays monthly sub and not spending unreasonable amount of cash on the MT.
So yes i agree on having MT for stuff like Name change or maybe "Outfits" that only is appearal... could work
This voices.. This voices i hear them.. And when they talk i follow i follow..
OMG seriously is this really a discussion I can't belive it....... wait i'm positng here nOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!! i got sucked in. Anyway i'm with the side that thinks you don't know tell you know. I have nothing against item shops for RL cash unless they have items in them that tweak a character and you can't get them any other way. If its stuff like clothing and exp potions what does it matter or even materials for crafting if your a lazy person as long as gathering the materials in game isn't horrible to do.
I am the monkey
Item store + monthly sub is going to be the new pricing model to keep games at 15$ a month with inflation and poor economy. Those who can pay for the extra flare will offset the cost for those who can not, and therefor balance the cost of the game across the base.
I will play the game as long as they do not sell power within their store as I would do even in f2p games. The market is changing and the games that can adapt do, and those who can not simply die. WoW has recently shown a prime example of people apparently being fine with the gradual introduction of an item store with a pay to play model.
If they can keep it fairly balanced and nothing absurdly costed (IE more then the physical game for any item I am fine with that). The revenue stream coming in is a necessity to continue development, and I understand that and support it full heartedly if it is what is needed to make a great game. Far to many crappy games have rushed out because they have not looked outside of the box for pricing models, and I think that it needs to end so that quality is the best avenue in the future which leads to in game item sales which puts less stress on requiring hype on box sales. In the end if the game is good then the box sales will be steady, and it will all work out.
In the end I hope that it is a fun game, and they deliver on their claims regardless of the pay structure.
Maybe they plan on selling the box and then have a fluff item mall, without sub. This doesnt sounds bad.
It is sure looking like a LOT of MMO players want to be milked, though.
I think you are wrong that it is unwise financially to offer stuff in a cash shop. When Blizzard does it, you know they have crunched the numbers.
I am growing more and more jaded about the whole industry. I got into MMOs because I liked playing RPGs with other people, but the quality of people is sinking, and the games are more and more a cash grab.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I actually think if TOR had a true-blue item shop like F2P games AND a sub fee, then the game would do very badly (given the IP and devs). I certainly wouldn't play that. There are cash shops and there are CASH SHOPS. Some cash shop stuff wouldn't bother me (pets, though that would be odd), other cash shop stuff would bother me a lot (mounts, iconic appearances, etc) but I might still play (just not do cash shop stuff). I do think the more cash shop stuff TOR has the more it will hurt its sub numbers overall, but some mild stuff probably won't make a big difference, but if they charged for significant content stuff (like story arcs as opposed to pets), then they'll get hurt. Maybe the profit margin would be better that way though, that's hard for me to call.
I agree with you to an extent about where the industry seems to be going. I think there will be some games that avoid this though (I think FFXIV might and obviously GW2 will).
Anyhow, it we can't really say what TOR is going to look like. They haven't decided. Hopefully if they do have some sort of cash shop it is just kept to non-iconic fluff that doesn't matter.
If they have a shop at all - I won't even be trying it. No matter how the cash shops start - they end up selling game-effect stuff.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
$15 bucks a month times oh.. we'll say for now 300k subs (for the sake of argument). What does that come to math wizzes? It comes to $4,500,000. Thats a month... and thats just assuming they only have 300k and not more. They do not need mircrotransactions at all. It's more than enough to keep the servers running, broadband running, paying employees etc. And heck, we aren't even talking about the inital sales from the box. A one time $15,000,000? (subs not added)
If they do both a basic sub and mircotransactions it will be pure greed and this game will sink faster than a sack of bricks being thrown into the sea. As many are obviousy totally against MT.
And as many have said.. if they even think about trying it, i wont even give the game a chance, no matter what form they have it. a monthly sub + intital box payment should pay for all content, period.
"Do not fret! Your captain is about to enter Valhalla!" - General Beatrix of Alexandria
"The acquisition of knowledge is of use to the intellect, for nothing can be loved or hated without first being known." - Leo da Vinci