Return to Darkfall (developer update)

Garvon3 · April 2010

Well it seems Aventurine is going to finally start becoming chatty. We'll see how its implemented, but this seems like it can't be a bad thing.

http://forums.darkfallonline.com/showthread.php?p=4207438#post4207438

Also a hint in there about reopening old accounts to check out the long list of things that have been added since launch.

I'm already firing up Darkfall again!

Wharg0ul · April 2010

Sweet. Always good when devs listen to their community.....as long as they don't cave to the whiners and destroy the game.

There is a difference between people who have genuine issues with the game, and have feedback for improvement, and those who simply want everything nerfed and made easy and fast.

Listening to the first group gives youa better game.....listening to the second gives you SWG's NGE.

Murashu · April 2010

Yay! Now just give me a 3rd person view so I can resub and be happy.

Garvon3 · April 2010

Originally posted by Wharg0ul

Sweet. Always good when devs listen to their community.....as long as they don't cave to the whiners and destroy the game.

There is a difference between people who have genuine issues with the game, and have feedback for improvement, and those who simply want everything nerfed and made easy and fast.

Listening to the first group gives youa better game.....listening to the second gives you SWG's NGE.

Totally agree. I think the devs have been fairly true to their vision so far and they won't sacrifice that to cater to the easy mode people that they never wanted to sell their game to in the first place.

Hopefully the devs will clarify exactly what game they want to make, to shut up the people who keep thinking the game needs to be the way they say. Like all those who get angry every time something other than PvP is added.

nine56 · April 2010

Does anyone know whats going on right now? It seems like their game and web servers are down...

Edit: nvm back up ^.^

DarthRaiden · April 2010

Originally posted by Murashu

Yay! Now just give me a 3rd person view so I can resub and be happy.

You know that is never going to happen without some sort of bastardization of a games core idea. First person view is absolutely essentiell to the concept of aiming in this game. Implementing it for mellee was already a big compromis. Some of the problems players have with mellee (especially melee feeling "blunt" and not that immersive) just derives from that fact.

phreakist · April 2010

"Next week we plan to initiate community - developer interaction on topics of concern to both the community and to the developers." says Tasos in the official post...

Before I begin to rant about how ridiculous this post is, in context of the current Darkfall situation, it should be stated that I will still stand by my previous statements that Darkfall at one time was the greatest MMORPG for PVP that has ever existed. One year later, through lack of developer insight, failed content promises, failed-beyond-description balance changing freedom of movement nerfs, and less than half the original player population, the same can no longer be said.

One year after release they are going to initiate community-developer interaction? Wow. While this news is promising in showing us that the community outrage is starting to have an effect, it may be too-little too-late. I really don't think I'll be alone scratching my head and wondering what the fuck Tasos is smoking to think that this announcement is anything short of an admission of complete failure on the part of Aventurine (the developer) when it comes to interaction with their community

The post also hints that they are going to allow old players back with trial-type free subscriptions to see how Darkfall has progressed. As someone who was foolish enough to originally purchase a 1-year subscription, I can tell you right now (having had an active account this entire time) that there has been absolutely zero new content added, other than nonsensical fluff and the failed 'Sea Towers', since the North American launch. (a quick note on why the sea towers failed: they were meant to promote ship on ship combat, yet the towers were armed with mannable cannons which 1 shot the crew of any ship that comes into range... meaning you can't even bring a ship to the sea tower unless you already hold it and the cannons. No ship battles. The clan I lead while playing Darkfall likely had the largest fleet of available ships of anyone at the time since we were the first to efficiently farm 'the Kraken', and were more than willing to risk them time and time again for the possibility of a true ship battle on the open seas, without any luck in ever making it happen.)

Even the balance changes, 'archery upgrades', etc. that HAVE been introduced, were nothing more than "remove your ability to do this, and then re-add it as a 'new feature' with restrictions" type changes. A typical calling-card of absentee developers.

I've made previous posts on the subject of Darkfall's developmental failure on my silly MMORPG blog, and while I am excited to hear that the team is admitting their shortfalls, and showing a desire to interact more with their community, they have a long hard road to travel before they'll be able to lure even dedicated players like me back to an active interest in the game.

The engine is still amazing, the potential is still there, but I seriously doubt whether Darkfall will ever be able to regain the glory it once had without a new, real developer, willing to give this game the attention it deserves, taking over.

Unknown · April 2010

Originally posted by phreakist

"Next week we plan to initiate community - developer interaction on topics of concern to both the community and to the developers." says Tasos in the official post...

Before I begin to rant about how ridiculous this post is, in context of the current Darkfall situation, it should be stated that I will still stand by my previous statements that Darkfall at one time was the greatest MMORPG for PVP that has ever existed. One year later, through lack of developer insight, failed content promises, failed-beyond-description balance changing freedom of movement nerfs, and less than half the original player population, the same can no longer be said.

One year after release they are going to initiate community-developer interaction? Wow. While this news is promising in showing us that the community outrage is starting to have an effect, it may be too-little too-late. I really don't think I'll be alone scratching my head and wondering what the fuck Tasos is smoking to think that this announcement is anything short of an admission of complete failure on the part of Aventurine (the developer) when it comes to interaction with their community

The post also hints that they are going to allow old players back with trial-type free subscriptions to see how Darkfall has progressed. As someone who was foolish enough to originally purchase a 1-year subscription, I can tell you right now (having had an active account this entire time) that there has been absolutely zero new content added, other than nonsensical fluff and the failed 'Sea Towers', since the North American launch. (a quick note on why the sea towers failed: they were meant to promote ship on ship combat, yet the towers were armed with mannable cannons which 1 shot the crew of any ship that comes into range... meaning you can't even bring a ship to the sea tower unless you already hold it and the cannons. No ship battles. The clan I lead while playing Darkfall likely had the largest fleet of available ships of anyone at the time since we were the first to efficiently farm 'the Kraken', and were more than willing to risk them time and time again for the possibility of a true ship battle on the open seas, without any luck in ever making it happen.)

Even the balance changes, 'archery upgrades', etc. that HAVE been introduced, were nothing more than "remove your ability to do this, and then re-add it as a 'new feature' with restrictions" type changes. A typical calling-card of absentee developers.

I've made previous posts on the subject of Darkfall's developmental failure on my silly MMORPG blog, and while I am excited to hear that the team is admitting their shortfalls, and showing a desire to interact more with their community, they have a long hard road to travel before they'll be able to lure even dedicated players like me back to an active interest in the game.
The engine is still amazing, the potential is still there, but I seriously doubt whether Darkfall will ever be able to regain the glory it once had without a new, real developer, willing to give this game the attention it deserves, taking over.

You arte scary and absolutely right.

Psythos · April 2010

''more next week'' seems to be the trend in DF.

And ''Return to Darkfall'' , that explains a few things.

Hotjazz · April 2010

Originally posted by phreakist
I will still stand by my previous statements that Darkfall at one time was the greatest MMORPG for PVP that has ever existed.

I agree, but maybe not for the same reason you have.

I had large battles in Darkfall that made me yell in pure fun. The voices on ventrillo shouting "this is Darkfall"..."this is what Darkfall is about". We had players and pvp everywhere those days.

I can`t understand why an old player will return to Darkfall these days. The grind is the same, his char is low level, he is not pvp competitive, he can`t afk macro, we have hardly any players left, he can`t get a house, caravans are a joke and no one fights over sea fortress.

DarthRaiden · April 2010

Yea, i can't understand why AV care about those who left ages ago, they already showed they don't fit in Darkfall, why AV believe they would fit in now ? They clearly wanted a different game and not what Darkfall was and is in itself.

(Some expected and wanted UO2 others full loot WoW and others EvE on phantasy setting as ground game or single player shooters as MMO, a very mixed and difficult to please playerbase)

Azdul · April 2010

Originally posted by DarthRaiden
Yea, i can't understand why AV care about those who left ages ago, they already showed they don't fit in Darkfall, why AV believe they would fit in now ? They clearly wanted a different game and not what Darkfall was and is in itself.

AOE cycling removed, higher magic protections on armor, changed unburden, completely revamped PvE, 6x faster magic levelling etc.

DF is much, much better than it was at launch.

But, what's more important, there isn't anything else worth playing ...

Some people who left for Aion, STO, MO, Global Agenda may consider going back to DF.

holdenhamlet · April 2010

An anouncement that in a week there will be an announcement, and that future announcement will be about communication with players and something resembling consensus building, after which, it is implied, changes might happen.

People have been talking about the core problems for a year, they just have to read their own message boards and act on them (biggest is of course the almighty grind). This "announcement" is a stalling tactic, but based on how little they ever say anything, even just saying this little (basically less than nothing- more like a promise that nothing will be said in a week's time) is probably effective in calming the base for a week or so.

DarthRaiden · April 2010

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

An anouncement that in a week there will be an announcement, and that future announcement will be about communication with players and something resembling consensus building, after which, it is implied, changes might happen.

People have been talking about the core problems for a year, they just have to read their own message boards and act on them (biggest is of course the almighty grind). This "announcement" is a stalling tactic, but based on how little they ever say anything, even just saying this little (basically less than nothing- more like a promise that nothing will be said in a week's time) is probably effective in calming the base for a week or so.

The problem is with todays MMO players (or better a special vocal forum minority) , what you need daily communication for, you don't asking in a motel about the future plans of the motel managers on how they build their houses or may change the rooms you simply used it if you like it or leave it.

Same with Darkfall, Agon is there, play it or leave it.

Azdul · April 2010

Originally posted by holdenhamlet
People have been talking about the core problems for a year, they just have to read their own message boards and act on them (biggest is of course the almighty grind).

There is loud minority of players (mostly unsubbed), who want to turn DF into UO:2nd Age.

In UO you macroed for 2-3 weeks, collected gear in a week, and then, with 60 readybags of completely top gear you wandered around killing newbs and carebears.

But DF has 10 times less non-PvP content than UO, and when you'll take the grind out - you'll have maxed chars with nothing to do ...

Besides, in UO, reds were usually hunting solo, and that's why they had plenty of action. And on EU-1 all top PvP clans, with exception of SUN, Z5 and Enemy, allied each other. So they want PvP, but at the same time don't want sieges ...

You should be able to play DF without grinding. But for that two things need to happen:

- AV needs to add more content, so players won't grind out of boredom

- vets should wage wars against each other, not against noobs

xzyax · April 2010

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

An anouncement that in a week there will be an announcement, and that future announcement will be about communication with players and something resembling consensus building, after which, it is implied, changes might happen.

People have been talking about the core problems for a year, they just have to read their own message boards and act on them (biggest is of course the almighty grind). This "announcement" is a stalling tactic, but based on how little they ever say anything, even just saying this little (basically less than nothing- more like a promise that nothing will be said in a week's time) is probably effective in calming the base for a week or so.

The problem is with todays MMO players (or better a special vocal forum minority) , what you need daily communication for, you don't asking in a motel about the future plans of the motel managers on how they build their houses or may change the rooms you simply used it if you like it or leave it.

Same with Darkfall, Agon is there, play it or leave it.

I disagree with your analogy Darth.

If I was planning on coming back to the same motel on a daily basis for years... you're darn right I'd be asking the motel manager about future plans.

Same thing applies to MMOs.

Most people (at least those interested in DarkFall anyway) are looking for a long-term MMO home. When you're looking for something for the long-term... you're a LOT more interested in what the future holds.

DarthRaiden · April 2010

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

An anouncement that in a week there will be an announcement, and that future announcement will be about communication with players and something resembling consensus building, after which, it is implied, changes might happen.

People have been talking about the core problems for a year, they just have to read their own message boards and act on them (biggest is of course the almighty grind). This "announcement" is a stalling tactic, but based on how little they ever say anything, even just saying this little (basically less than nothing- more like a promise that nothing will be said in a week's time) is probably effective in calming the base for a week or so.

The problem is with todays MMO players (or better a special vocal forum minority) , what you need daily communication for, you don't asking in a motel about the future plans of the motel managers on how they build their houses or may change the rooms you simply used it if you like it or leave it.

Same with Darkfall, Agon is there, play it or leave it.

I disagree with your analogy Darth.

If I was planning on coming back to the same motel on a daily basis for years... you're darn right I'd be asking the motel manager about future plans.

Same thing applies to MMOs.

Most people (at least those interested in DarkFall anyway) are looking for a long-term MMO home. When you're looking for something for the long-term... you're a LOT more interested in what the future holds.

Emphasis is on daily in these case. They revealed some of the plans in Q&A in the beginning of the year andin 3 patches they started to implement what they said, better protection and more to do for newbies, trial system encorporated, various fixes including the very demanded archery specialization change, insta war decs etc., and improved siege mechanics by adding strongboxes. Now they say they will start discussion these week about some topics and concerns.

Thats not something should receive criticism, thats all good stuff. (Especially if they daily whine is most about the perceived "grind", a very psychological and individual perception and concept and the rest is how DF is not like game x (various MMORPGS from the past) )

Anubisan · April 2010

Originally posted by Azdul

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

People have been talking about the core problems for a year, they just have to read their own message boards and act on them (biggest is of course the almighty grind).

There is loud minority of players (mostly unsubbed), who want to turn DF into UO:2nd Age.

In UO you macroed for 2-3 weeks, collected gear in a week, and then, with 60 readybags of completely top gear you wandered around killing newbs and carebears.

But DF has 10 times less non-PvP content than UO, and when you'll take the grind out - you'll have maxed chars with nothing to do ...

Besides, in UO, reds were usually hunting solo, and that's why they had plenty of action. And on EU-1 all top PvP clans, with exception of SUN, Z5 and Enemy, allied each other. So they want PvP, but at the same time don't want sieges ...

You should be able to play DF without grinding. But for that two things need to happen:

- AV needs to add more content, so players won't grind out of boredom

- vets should wage wars against each other, not against noobs

I am one of those players who would prefer if DFO was more like UO T2A. This of course is because I had more fun in that game than I have ever had in any other MMO. It did not take ridiculously long to become PvP viable, and once you were, you actually began participating in almost non-stop PvP. I remember being constantly involved in large-scale clan wars as well as roaming with PK bands... and honestly that was what I was hoping for from DFO. I just could not overcome the boredom of the grind in this game to actually get to that PvP viable level. There are MANY MANY others with the same story. If you honestly think we are the minority, you don't know how to count.

There is only one reason why AV would come out and make a post like this. It is because the game is not succeeding in retaining players. AV knows this and they know something is wrong. They are now coming to the conclusion that they need to change something in order to get people to come back. If they actually do listen to the feedback of the community, they will see one topic that has been raised more than any other topic related to Darkfall BY FAR - the grind.

Honestly, AV has no hope of luring back most of their lost players if they don't address that issue. Since I seriously doubt they want the game to fail, my bet is that they will.

Garvon3 · April 2010

Hoorah, this turned into a thread whining about the grind! I mean, we didn't already have 10 of those or anything. Considering the grind is almost entirely subjective (I've never grinded, thus I never got bored) I'd really appreciate it if you didn't bring it up AGAIN.

If all you stat grinders complaining about being killed by "vets" (and in the same breath saying the game has no vets cause they all quit cause the game sucks) fought eachother instead of grinding, you'd have more fun with people at your own skill level. Too many leet counsterstrike kids in this game that think everything should happen INSTANTLY and RAGE whenever the devs expand content or the world instead of working on PvP. IT'S A SANDBOX GAME.

Now I'd rather we talk about what AV may be planning. Is it just a, reopen all old accounts to check things out? They going to drop another update before then?

Anubisan · April 2010

Seeing as how they haven't updated anything since many of us last played, I don't know why they would think we would want to suddenly come back now.

I am curious to see what comes of this increased interaction with the community though...

hoopty · April 2010

Originally posted by Garvon3

Hoorah, this turned into a thread whining about the grind! I mean, we didn't already have 10 of those or anything. Considering the grind is almost entirely subjective (I've never grinded, thus I never got bored) I'd really appreciate it if you didn't bring it up AGAIN.

If all you stat grinders complaining about being killed by "vets" (and in the same breath saying the game has no vets cause they all quit cause the game sucks) fought eachother instead of grinding, you'd have more fun with people at your own skill level. Too many leet counsterstrike kids in this game that think everything should happen INSTANTLY and RAGE whenever the devs expand content or the world instead of working on PvP. IT'S A SANDBOX GAME.

Now I'd rather we talk about what AV may be planning. Is it just a, reopen all old accounts to check things out? They going to drop another update before then?

Really he needs extra money' so hes fishing to see how many suckers he can catch..But in again i wont go back regardless how much he changed..

Garvon3 · April 2010

Originally posted by Anubisan

Seeing as how they haven't updated anything since many of us last played, I don't know why they would think we would want to suddenly come back now.

I am curious to see what comes of this increased interaction with the community though...

Many people haven't played since launch. A great many people.

DarthRaiden · April 2010

the game is awesome, its already best on the market and gets better and better with every patch.

More then a year active and statisfied subscriber and there to stay

Xianthos · April 2010

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

the game is awesome, its already best on the market and gets better and better with every patch.

More then a year active and statisfied subscriber and there to stay

YOU ARE MINORITY!

Ive played DF at start but it pissed me too much, how people could and did exploit the game. After a time i returned and played about for 3 months about the time when the "content sea tower crap" came. And i dud burn out after huge grind which i had to do till i was competative and still i was 3 hitted by mount whores and what does it says to me? 320 hp is by far not enough. And as i realised how much i would have to grind to be even more better i could just womit. And lets dont forget that i could roam with my bro for hours without seeing a single sould in Agon. It felt so fu empty. And what i hear from my old guildys its gettting even worser.

AV is desperate that they change their course afte 1.5 year of silence ....

Garvon3 · April 2010

Originally posted by Xianthos

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

the game is awesome, its already best on the market and gets better and better with every patch.

More then a year active and statisfied subscriber and there to stay

YOU ARE MINORITY!

Ive played DF at start but it pissed me too much, how people could and did exploit the game. After a time i returned and played about for 3 months about the time when the "content sea tower crap" came. And i dud burn out after huge grind which i had to do till i was competative and still i was 3 hitted by mount whores and what does it says to me? 320 hp is by far not enough. And as i realised how much i would have to grind to be even more better i could just womit. And lets dont forget that i could roam with my bro for hours without seeing a single sould in Agon. It felt so fu empty. And what i hear from my old guildys its gettting even worser.

AV is desperate that they change their course afte 1.5 year of silence ....

They weren't silent, the spotlight forum was a good thing for a while, but they dialed that down after a bit.

As for the grind, stop worrying about "being able to compete" just grab your friends and go PvPing. The game does not revolve around 1v1 fights, no matter what your skill level you can take part in the action.

xzyax · April 2010

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by xzyax

Originally posted by DarthRaiden

Originally posted by holdenhamlet

An anouncement that in a week there will be an announcement, and that future announcement will be about communication with players and something resembling consensus building, after which, it is implied, changes might happen.

People have been talking about the core problems for a year, they just have to read their own message boards and act on them (biggest is of course the almighty grind). This "announcement" is a stalling tactic, but based on how little they ever say anything, even just saying this little (basically less than nothing- more like a promise that nothing will be said in a week's time) is probably effective in calming the base for a week or so.

The problem is with todays MMO players (or better a special vocal forum minority) , what you need daily communication for, you don't asking in a motel about the future plans of the motel managers on how they build their houses or may change the rooms you simply used it if you like it or leave it.

Same with Darkfall, Agon is there, play it or leave it.

I disagree with your analogy Darth.

If I was planning on coming back to the same motel on a daily basis for years... you're darn right I'd be asking the motel manager about future plans.

Same thing applies to MMOs.

Most people (at least those interested in DarkFall anyway) are looking for a long-term MMO home. When you're looking for something for the long-term... you're a LOT more interested in what the future holds.

Emphasis is on daily in these case. They revealed some of the plans in Q&A in the beginning of the year andin 3 patches they started to implement what they said, better protection and more to do for newbies, trial system encorporated, various fixes including the very demanded archery specialization change, insta war decs etc., and improved siege mechanics by adding strongboxes. Now they say they will start discussion these week about some topics and concerns.

Thats not something should receive criticism, thats all good stuff. (Especially if they daily whine is most about the perceived "grind", a very psychological and individual perception and concept and the rest is how DF is not like game x (various MMORPGS from the past) )

You are right in that a promise from Devs to have more communication with it's player-base is a good thing.

The trouble is that Aventurine has made those same statements both before the game was launched and at various stages since.

Yet, by most accounts most people would admit that is definitely one of Aventurine's weak points.

I don't think most people are upset that Aventurine made the declaration that they want to have more communication... most just want them to actually DO it.

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