I voted yes that I'd still buy the game if there was a micro-transaction store, however I would much prefer a simple subscription based title. Additionally, if you've seen the latest development estimates I doubt they will be doing micro-transactions as it'll take longer to break even at that huge number EA are quoting.
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I won't try this game out at all if it tries to add a sub plus model. Either go F2P w/cash shop or subscription, not both.
I'm against cash shops, even for "fluff"/cosmetics. It gives devs the motivation to put out bland, crappy looking gear/pets/mounts/etc., to force people to pay extra cash for the cool stuff. It's like them giving you 2 choices for lightsaber colors, red or blue, and telling you if you want silver, orange, yellow, green, etc. you need to pay more. I call BS.
Part of having fun in mmo's is having cool pets/armor/mounts/housing/etc. All MT's do is give incentive to devs to make the coolest/best stuff cost extra money. It's BS.
Who cares how good the game is if your character looks like crap and you don't feel cool/good playing them?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
About 1 year ago EA rainmakers in a conference pointed out that the future of EA MMO games would pass trough the micro transaction system.
If micro transaction will be in TOR I can not say. Would not surpise me tho.But even if they will be, we still do not know what kind they are.
Blizzard for example appears to be advancing in a vanity micro transaction model . The game items sold are in all aspects vanity items. They do not add power to the characters in any way or alter game play balance. As such it is a form of inocous micro transaction. You might buy all the pets and mounts , but they will not make you kill boss X faster or easier , or survive in pvp better.
that is a model of micro transaction that for me at least, have no impact over my gameplay. i am prrety sure that it might have impact on some one else ascetic kind of gameplay, but ultimately I simply do not care. I am not ascetic.or play this games due to eschatological reasons, so the fact that Harry twotons might have a flying donkey or a firestalion is irrelevant.
So if a compay wants to make some estra bucks based on vanity needs of players, no problem,
the alternate model of transactions ' the ones were items that actually have real gameplay balance impacts are sold , is the thing that scares me to a point. I honestly hope TOR avoids since im from the old gameplay school of thinking, the one that belives that power should come from playing the game, not from inserting the credit card number.
Still i have no doubts that in the future this second model of transactions will reach the MMORPG genre in full scale. it is more a question if that future will encompass TOR or not.
I won't try this game out at all if it tries to add a sub plus model. Either go F2P w/cash shop or subscription, not both.
I'm against cash shops, even for "fluff"/cosmetics. It gives devs the motivation to put out bland, crappy looking gear/pets/mounts/etc., to force people to pay extra cash for the cool stuff. It's like them giving you 2 choices for lightsaber colors, red or blue, and telling you if you want silver, orange, yellow, green, etc. you need to pay more. I call BS.
Part of having fun in mmo's is having cool pets/armor/mounts/housing/etc. All MT's do is give incentive to devs to make the coolest/best stuff cost extra money. It's BS.
Who cares how good the game is if your character looks like crap and you don't feel cool/good playing them?
This is why there is a huge following of people who hate item shops. Call it fluff all you want but when you buy a mount, pet, light saber color, or anything that could be aquired via actual gameplay by the devs making it a quest or as a rare drop off a boss you take away from playing the game. Devs make useless trinkets and fluff for an item shop or even worse xp potions etc. How can people not see that they could add any of this into the actual game, with quest chains, unique items, actual stuff to do in the game!? It's a money grab if your charging for a monthly sub.
Really I could rant about item shops and downloadable content all day. The underhanded introduction of downloadable content by microsoft when it was included on the original cd you would buy but needed you to purchase a key to unlock the content on the cd. Hey I know lets put a flying horse for sale at 25 dollars a pop. Heh I wonder how much downloadable content is finished before the game even ships out so they can make a few extra bucks from Ostagar Keep or whatever.
Bioware after seeing what was done with Mass Effect 2, and Dragon Age with DLC will no doubt have MT in the Old Republic.
If you want me to pay more make an actual expansion not the equivilent of an in-game prompt that asks for my credit card every time I bend over to loot. I know that's exagerating, it only asks when new content is availible when the game loads up, heh.
Before you go WTF I like downloadable content, I like item shops. Think about this. They make the game just like they used to, then take 5 random zones or maps or items, whatever and take them off the production copy only to add them as downloadable content or in the item shop. So really your getting the same as what you would pay for on any other game with the one time fee or sub but being charged more by underhanded sneaky means. Maybe I'm just a little conspiracy nuts but it seems a lot like it to me.
"You CAN'T buy ships for RL money." - MaxBacon
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
I voted "yes" as I'm not going to play it as an MMO but as an RPG just for some of the campaign stories, you just know these are going to be top quality.
I don't really care if other people buy fluff or overpowered items from shops as I probably won't run into a lot of people, or play the game more than a couple of months. I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as well.
Though if it does turn out to be pretty good (as an MMO) and I wanna stay subbed but there's an item store, then I probably wouldn't.
I actually think if TOR had a true-blue item shop like F2P games AND a sub fee, then the game would do very badly (given the IP and devs). I certainly wouldn't play that. There are cash shops and there are CASH SHOPS. Some cash shop stuff wouldn't bother me (pets, though that would be odd), other cash shop stuff would bother me a lot (mounts, iconic appearances, etc) but I might still play (just not do cash shop stuff). I do think the more cash shop stuff TOR has the more it will hurt its sub numbers overall, but some mild stuff probably won't make a big difference, but if they charged for significant content stuff (like story arcs as opposed to pets), then they'll get hurt. Maybe the profit margin would be better that way though, that's hard for me to call.
I agree with you to an extent about where the industry seems to be going. I think there will be some games that avoid this though (I think FFXIV might and obviously GW2 will).
Anyhow, it we can't really say what TOR is going to look like. They haven't decided. Hopefully if they do have some sort of cash shop it is just kept to non-iconic fluff that doesn't matter.
If they have a shop at all - I won't even be trying it. No matter how the cash shops start - they end up selling game-effect stuff.
I don't know of any examples other than WoW for P2P games (I haven't played many MMOs in the last few years). WoW hasn't gone to game-effect yet, but I do think they crossed the line with the Celestial Steed (best looking stuff should be obtained in-game).
I think it would be interesting if ToR went F2P with a cash shop that sold game modules (mini-expansions) at a reasonable price. I think that would be a model they could stick to and it would give them a more direct incentive to keep making game content at a rapid pace (of course, there are dangers there too).
I just hope they don't do something stupid like STO/CO did. If they do that then I might play for a couple months before I quit. The story aspect should be good for that long before the shop would destry the game. It is hard to imagine the cash shop would be so bad that it would ruin the game within a month or two, but if it looks that way then I won't play at all). Anyhow, we'll just have to wait and see what they go with. A lot of people on the forums hate the cash shop idea though, and I think they know they'd hurt their financial base if they do that.
I voted "yes" as I'm not going to play it as an MMO but as an RPG just for some of the campaign stories, you just know these are going to be top quality.
I don't really care if other people buy fluff or overpowered items from shops as I probably won't run into a lot of people, or play the game more than a couple of months. I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as well.
Though if it does turn out to be pretty good (as an MMO) and I wanna stay subbed but there's an item store, then I probably wouldn't.
A friend of mine shares the same opinion. As soon as he gets through all RPG content I am getting his game and I have no problem waiting for few months. This is of course unless TOR turns out to be a long lasting MMO which seems highely unlikely at present state.
So I would defently preffer MT over subscription and spend $0.
I don't really care about the item store as long as it doesn't have items that can be purchased that give gameplay character beneftits. Like xp boosts, health boosts, weapons, armor, etc. As long as I don't have to buy something to be a viable player in The Old Republic I'm fine, but if I have to buy weapons, armor, health boosts (for pvp), etc to play at any time then I'll quit.
Blizzard seems to be doing the correct thing with their item store. Mounts and pets don't matter when you do a raid or pvp.
Someone said something about people wanting to get milked for fluff content. And its true. I wont go into my opinions on fluff vs real content because its been stated by roughly 80% of the people in here. But on the website The Tech Herald I found an article written on the 23th that stated, "Initial sales suggest the Celestial Steed download has already made a whopping $3.5 million USD for Blizzard."
So yeah. Considering WoW is still the game with the most subscribers, they've made it damn clear that cash shop + monthly subs works well enough if you offer a game that can keep people and the cash-shop doesn't overly unbalance gameplay. In the case of the Steed it scales to the max mount speed of 310% if you have the capability to go that fast already. Something like that makes sense to me. If you can already do something, you should be able to pay a bit to do it using something different in a cosmetic sense. Anyways we dont know so Ill be sitting on my hands like everyone else waiting and hoping the game doesn't let me down.
As long as they only put black and white crystals there, I won't give a flying fuck about it
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See If i was Bioware, I'd just put in stuff like respecs and all that technical stuff. I reckon when you buy an item, it loses its value. You didn't earn it. You didn't fight through hell to get it. Like that holocron collection in galaxies, I'm proud to say I did it myself. Twice.
I reckon aslong as they don't give rediculous items like black and white crystals, I'll be happy. Nothing breaks immersion more than some jedi weilding some nerd porn. I mean, it's simple. Jedi blue-green-yellow-purple. Sith Red-Purple.
Aslong as they keep everything in the right look of the game, I'll be happy.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
If they have a cash shop, and a subscription system... I don't think I'll bother with SW:TOR. I was lookin forward to it, but so much good is coming out of 2010 that I'm not worried it'll be the only fun game to play at that time.
So you'd prefer if the items weren't there at all.
See, it's not that the items would be there for free without microtransactions.
Yes, it is. That`s exactly what it is.
The income from microtransactions is what's paying for the artists/coders needed to create those items in the first place. Without microtransactions they just wouldn't be there. See it like this:
Prove it. that`s a very conenient claim to support cash shops with no evidence that I have seen.
Normal game or
Normal game + extra items + microtransactions
There is no 'Normal game + extra items' option.
Normal game is `Normal game + extra items`. Unless you are playing some P2P game which patches in no content outside of a paid expansion. If so, what game is that?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
So you'd prefer if the items weren't there at all.
See, it's not that the items would be there for free without microtransactions.
Yes, it is. That`s exactly what it is.
The income from microtransactions is what's paying for the artists/coders needed to create those items in the first place. Without microtransactions they just wouldn't be there. See it like this:
Prove it. that`s a very conenient claim to support cash shops with no evidence that I have seen.
Normal game or
Normal game + extra items + microtransactions
There is no 'Normal game + extra items' option.
Normal game is `Normal game + extra items`. Unless you are playing some P2P game which patches in no content outside of a paid expansion. If so, what game is that?
Got a question for you Doubter.
Would you play if there was a cash shop that only dealt in non 'uber' items. I.E 'fluff'. Or would the very fact that there are microtransactions prevent you playing.
From what I understand, we're not forced to buy. We get the game plus content for our subscription. The microtransactions are for unneeded things.
Only thing that'll annoy me is if they get stupid like galaxies did with 'Wings' and halos. Stuff that breaks immersion.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Would you play if there was a cash shop that only dealt in non 'uber' items. I.E 'fluff'. Or would the very fact that there are microtransactions prevent you playing.
I quit playing WoW when they started the pet shop. Fluff matters a lot to some players (not me, really). I do care about equality in a game, though. Paid extras means a tiered system of access. I will not stand for that.
I will not pay to play in a game with paid content. In a game - you show your dedication and skill by playing, not by paying.
From what I understand, we're not forced to buy. We get the game plus content for our subscription. The microtransactions are for unneeded things.
Nothing is needed. It is all optional. As long as you do not care about having fun in a game you are paying for.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Would you play if there was a cash shop that only dealt in non 'uber' items. I.E 'fluff'. Or would the very fact that there are microtransactions prevent you playing.
I quit playing WoW when they started the pet shop. Fluff matters a lot to some players (not me, really). I do care about equality in a game, though. Paid extras means a tiered system of access. I will not stand for that.
I will not pay to play in a game with paid content. In a game - you show your dedication and skill by playing, not by paying.
From what I understand, we're not forced to buy. We get the game plus content for our subscription. The microtransactions are for unneeded things.
Nothing is needed. It is all optional. As long as you do not care about having fun in a game you are paying for.
So I go to a baseball game and you are telling me I should get free food and a baseball cap with my ticket price?
I shouldn't have to pay extra for those side things?
So I go to a baseball game and you are telling me I should get free food and a baseball cap with my ticket price?
I shouldn't have to pay extra for those side things?
You should also pay a sub fee for each inning. Although, I hear the "end game" is a bit of a let down..just more of the same grind.
Really though, why does everything devolve to bad analogies? Baseball caps and food....You have to physically make or prepare one for every customer that wants one. Item Shop products...you have a script that copies something, that was made (and hopefully QA'd) once, to someone's account.
The problem with analogies is that they are easy to pick apart and distract form the actual topic to more or so nit-picking (see previous paragraph for example).
For my money, an Item Shop is a negative. An item shop plus sub fee is a big negative. That's just my opinion and a factor in deciding how to spend my money. Will it keep me from playing the game; possibly. Depends on how intrusive it all feels. I'd love to have a good SW MMO to play again so I'll reserve judgement until I see the implementation.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
Would you play if there was a cash shop that only dealt in non 'uber' items. I.E 'fluff'. Or would the very fact that there are microtransactions prevent you playing.
I quit playing WoW when they started the pet shop. Fluff matters a lot to some players (not me, really). I do care about equality in a game, though. Paid extras means a tiered system of access. I will not stand for that.
I will not pay to play in a game with paid content. In a game - you show your dedication and skill by playing, not by paying.
From what I understand, we're not forced to buy. We get the game plus content for our subscription. The microtransactions are for unneeded things.
Nothing is needed. It is all optional. As long as you do not care about having fun in a game you are paying for.
So I go to a baseball game and you are telling me I should get free food and a baseball cap with my ticket price?
I shouldn't have to pay extra for those side things?
I don't see the logic here.
Having game-altering microtransactions is like paying big bucks to get good seats at a ball game, but having a blocking screen pop up in front of you every inning, which you'd have to pay to remove. It is nothing like paying for hotdog or a cold brew. I have to pay for those when I'm playing MMOs, too.
Would you play if there was a cash shop that only dealt in non 'uber' items. I.E 'fluff'. Or would the very fact that there are microtransactions prevent you playing.
I quit playing WoW when they started the pet shop. Fluff matters a lot to some players (not me, really). I do care about equality in a game, though. Paid extras means a tiered system of access. I will not stand for that.
I will not pay to play in a game with paid content. In a game - you show your dedication and skill by playing, not by paying.
From what I understand, we're not forced to buy. We get the game plus content for our subscription. The microtransactions are for unneeded things.
Nothing is needed. It is all optional. As long as you do not care about having fun in a game you are paying for.
So I go to a baseball game and you are telling me I should get free food and a baseball cap with my ticket price?
I shouldn't have to pay extra for those side things?
I don't see the logic here.
Having game-altering microtransactions is like paying big bucks to get good seats at a ball game, but having a blocking screen pop up in front of you every inning, which you'd have to pay to remove. It is nothing like paying for hotdog or a cold brew. I have to pay for those when I'm playing MMOs, too.
I don't think anyone agrees with 'game altering' microtransactions. The arguement is people believe they should get all content with their subscription costs. However its not true. In a game like STO, theres poor content, they need more, but they waste their content building skills on cryptic store stuff, instead of adding content. Now if SwTOR has the content, then I guess they could get away with such a thing, eventually. First you need a solid game.
Thats why Cryptic are morons. Not all, just the ones who decided to add microtransactions WITH a sub.
Now I reckon its okay if its like... adds a new bunch of faces to choose from in character creator. However there has to be sufficiant amount of faces first by default. Otherwise its just them stealing money off you for content you should've already been given.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I really dislike item shops and micro-transactions. When I play a game, I want to relax and enjoy myself and forget about the real world....not constantly worry about how much real money I'm spending...or whether item X is worth the real dollars that I spend on it.
Not everyone is like that...but that's certainly my personal preference.
I look at it like one of those "all-inclusive" vacations where you pay one fee up front and you get to partake as much or as little as you want in the activities. That basicaly allows you to relax and forget about everything but the vacation and having fun while you're there.
There is nothing I hate more then having to dig into your wallet every time you want to do something or get something. It's not even the actual cost so much.... I don't mind paying premium dollar for a quality experience.... as it is the act of having to constantly think about how much you are spending (one of the reasons I hate gambling).
I'd rather pay a $30 a month sub fee and no micro-transactions then a $15 a month sub with RMT. At the very least...if they do open a RMT shop....I hope they offer Premium sub fee where you can pay a higher monthly sub....and then get anything that is availble in the cash shop for in-game currency or as an in-game drop. Call it an Unlimited Subscription or something like that.
My personal preference would be a one price subscription model with no cash shop....but if they do institute one..I'd rather they institute some sort of "all-inclusive" plan for those that don't want to bother with micro-transactions but still want access to everything that might be available in game.
Would you play if there was a cash shop that only dealt in non 'uber' items. I.E 'fluff'. Or would the very fact that there are microtransactions prevent you playing.
I quit playing WoW when they started the pet shop. Fluff matters a lot to some players (not me, really). I do care about equality in a game, though. Paid extras means a tiered system of access. I will not stand for that.
I will not pay to play in a game with paid content. In a game - you show your dedication and skill by playing, not by paying.
From what I understand, we're not forced to buy. We get the game plus content for our subscription. The microtransactions are for unneeded things.
Nothing is needed. It is all optional. As long as you do not care about having fun in a game you are paying for.
So I go to a baseball game and you are telling me I should get free food and a baseball cap with my ticket price?
I shouldn't have to pay extra for those side things?
I don't see the logic here.
Having game-altering microtransactions is like paying big bucks to get good seats at a ball game, but having a blocking screen pop up in front of you every inning, which you'd have to pay to remove. It is nothing like paying for hotdog or a cold brew. I have to pay for those when I'm playing MMOs, too.
I don't think anyone agrees with 'game altering' microtransactions. The arguement is people believe they should get all content with their subscription costs. However its not true. In a game like STO, theres poor content, they need more, but they waste their content building skills on cryptic store stuff, instead of adding content. Now if SwTOR has the content, then I guess they could get away with such a thing, eventually. First you need a solid game.
Thats why Cryptic are morons. Not all, just the ones who decided to add microtransactions WITH a sub.
Now I reckon its okay if its like... adds a new bunch of faces to choose from in character creator. However there has to be sufficiant amount of faces first by default. Otherwise its just them stealing money off you for content you should've already been given.
I do not agree. The baseball metaphor was flawed. Nobody expects to get free hot dogs and beer when going to a baseball game. People do expect to get access to all the content and game altering items in MMOs, when paying a monthly fee however. Expansions are a different thing.
Blizzard has the their little pet and mount store, and I do not like it all. Hwever, mounts will not aid you in raid encounters or the end-game PvP that matters, arenas. Pets are purely vanity items. Blizzard's real additional cost content are their expansion packs. I'm willing to pay for more content if its a major update like, the mentioned WoW expansions. I think Blizzard also has a good handle on the pricing and frequency of the these expansions.
I'm fine with something like that. Paying $10 extra per month to be competitive is something I will not put up with.
I really dislike item shops and micro-transactions. When I play a game, I want to relax and enjoy myself and forget about the real world....not constantly worry about how much real money I'm spending...or whether item X is worth the real dollars that I spend on it.
Not everyone is like that...but that's certainly my personal preference.
Mine too. The other major issue for me is the inequality between haves and have-nots in a game. I won't tolerate that.
Some people have mentioned having content areas purchasable (like what happens in a WoW expansion, only smaller scale) and that's not acceptable to me. I don't want to make friends with someone in-game and have them not able to group with me in a certain dungeon because they haven't paid for it.
Everyone pays the same. Everyone has equal access.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I think they'll be there. You only have 8 classes and a few of those are iconic lightsaber types. You don't think they're going to offer people to buy different colors or hilts, cloaks etc... common. That's like someone turning down a million dollar record deal because they don't want to be mainstream....that doesn't exist anymore. Welcome to 2010 and the decade of greed.
I can currently buy small content patches in mass effect 2 and dragon age for money. Why do people think the model will change because its an mmo?
Comments
I voted yes that I'd still buy the game if there was a micro-transaction store, however I would much prefer a simple subscription based title. Additionally, if you've seen the latest development estimates I doubt they will be doing micro-transactions as it'll take longer to break even at that huge number EA are quoting.
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I won't try this game out at all if it tries to add a sub plus model. Either go F2P w/cash shop or subscription, not both.
I'm against cash shops, even for "fluff"/cosmetics. It gives devs the motivation to put out bland, crappy looking gear/pets/mounts/etc., to force people to pay extra cash for the cool stuff. It's like them giving you 2 choices for lightsaber colors, red or blue, and telling you if you want silver, orange, yellow, green, etc. you need to pay more. I call BS.
Part of having fun in mmo's is having cool pets/armor/mounts/housing/etc. All MT's do is give incentive to devs to make the coolest/best stuff cost extra money. It's BS.
Who cares how good the game is if your character looks like crap and you don't feel cool/good playing them?
All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing - Edmund Burke
About 1 year ago EA rainmakers in a conference pointed out that the future of EA MMO games would pass trough the micro transaction system.
If micro transaction will be in TOR I can not say. Would not surpise me tho.But even if they will be, we still do not know what kind they are.
Blizzard for example appears to be advancing in a vanity micro transaction model . The game items sold are in all aspects vanity items. They do not add power to the characters in any way or alter game play balance. As such it is a form of inocous micro transaction. You might buy all the pets and mounts , but they will not make you kill boss X faster or easier , or survive in pvp better.
that is a model of micro transaction that for me at least, have no impact over my gameplay. i am prrety sure that it might have impact on some one else ascetic kind of gameplay, but ultimately I simply do not care. I am not ascetic.or play this games due to eschatological reasons, so the fact that Harry twotons might have a flying donkey or a firestalion is irrelevant.
So if a compay wants to make some estra bucks based on vanity needs of players, no problem,
the alternate model of transactions ' the ones were items that actually have real gameplay balance impacts are sold , is the thing that scares me to a point. I honestly hope TOR avoids since im from the old gameplay school of thinking, the one that belives that power should come from playing the game, not from inserting the credit card number.
Still i have no doubts that in the future this second model of transactions will reach the MMORPG genre in full scale. it is more a question if that future will encompass TOR or not.
This is why there is a huge following of people who hate item shops. Call it fluff all you want but when you buy a mount, pet, light saber color, or anything that could be aquired via actual gameplay by the devs making it a quest or as a rare drop off a boss you take away from playing the game. Devs make useless trinkets and fluff for an item shop or even worse xp potions etc. How can people not see that they could add any of this into the actual game, with quest chains, unique items, actual stuff to do in the game!? It's a money grab if your charging for a monthly sub.
Really I could rant about item shops and downloadable content all day. The underhanded introduction of downloadable content by microsoft when it was included on the original cd you would buy but needed you to purchase a key to unlock the content on the cd. Hey I know lets put a flying horse for sale at 25 dollars a pop. Heh I wonder how much downloadable content is finished before the game even ships out so they can make a few extra bucks from Ostagar Keep or whatever.
Bioware after seeing what was done with Mass Effect 2, and Dragon Age with DLC will no doubt have MT in the Old Republic.
If you want me to pay more make an actual expansion not the equivilent of an in-game prompt that asks for my credit card every time I bend over to loot. I know that's exagerating, it only asks when new content is availible when the game loads up, heh.
Before you go WTF I like downloadable content, I like item shops. Think about this. They make the game just like they used to, then take 5 random zones or maps or items, whatever and take them off the production copy only to add them as downloadable content or in the item shop. So really your getting the same as what you would pay for on any other game with the one time fee or sub but being charged more by underhanded sneaky means. Maybe I'm just a little conspiracy nuts but it seems a lot like it to me.
"classification of games into MMOs is not by rational reasoning" - nariusseldon
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Try a MUD today at http://www.mudconnect.com/I voted "yes" as I'm not going to play it as an MMO but as an RPG just for some of the campaign stories, you just know these are going to be top quality.
I don't really care if other people buy fluff or overpowered items from shops as I probably won't run into a lot of people, or play the game more than a couple of months. I'm sure a lot of people are in the same boat as well.
Though if it does turn out to be pretty good (as an MMO) and I wanna stay subbed but there's an item store, then I probably wouldn't.
I don't know of any examples other than WoW for P2P games (I haven't played many MMOs in the last few years). WoW hasn't gone to game-effect yet, but I do think they crossed the line with the Celestial Steed (best looking stuff should be obtained in-game).
I think it would be interesting if ToR went F2P with a cash shop that sold game modules (mini-expansions) at a reasonable price. I think that would be a model they could stick to and it would give them a more direct incentive to keep making game content at a rapid pace (of course, there are dangers there too).
I just hope they don't do something stupid like STO/CO did. If they do that then I might play for a couple months before I quit. The story aspect should be good for that long before the shop would destry the game. It is hard to imagine the cash shop would be so bad that it would ruin the game within a month or two, but if it looks that way then I won't play at all). Anyhow, we'll just have to wait and see what they go with. A lot of people on the forums hate the cash shop idea though, and I think they know they'd hurt their financial base if they do that.
A friend of mine shares the same opinion. As soon as he gets through all RPG content I am getting his game and I have no problem waiting for few months. This is of course unless TOR turns out to be a long lasting MMO which seems highely unlikely at present state.
So I would defently preffer MT over subscription and spend $0.
I don't really care about the item store as long as it doesn't have items that can be purchased that give gameplay character beneftits. Like xp boosts, health boosts, weapons, armor, etc. As long as I don't have to buy something to be a viable player in The Old Republic I'm fine, but if I have to buy weapons, armor, health boosts (for pvp), etc to play at any time then I'll quit.
Blizzard seems to be doing the correct thing with their item store. Mounts and pets don't matter when you do a raid or pvp.
Someone said something about people wanting to get milked for fluff content. And its true. I wont go into my opinions on fluff vs real content because its been stated by roughly 80% of the people in here. But on the website The Tech Herald I found an article written on the 23th that stated, "Initial sales suggest the Celestial Steed download has already made a whopping $3.5 million USD for Blizzard."
So yeah. Considering WoW is still the game with the most subscribers, they've made it damn clear that cash shop + monthly subs works well enough if you offer a game that can keep people and the cash-shop doesn't overly unbalance gameplay. In the case of the Steed it scales to the max mount speed of 310% if you have the capability to go that fast already. Something like that makes sense to me. If you can already do something, you should be able to pay a bit to do it using something different in a cosmetic sense. Anyways we dont know so Ill be sitting on my hands like everyone else waiting and hoping the game doesn't let me down.
As long as they only put black and white crystals there, I won't give a flying fuck about it
_____________________________________
We are the borg!
You will be assimilated.
We will add you biological and technological distinctiviness to our own.
Your culture will adapt to serve us.
Resistance is futile
See If i was Bioware, I'd just put in stuff like respecs and all that technical stuff. I reckon when you buy an item, it loses its value. You didn't earn it. You didn't fight through hell to get it. Like that holocron collection in galaxies, I'm proud to say I did it myself. Twice.
I reckon aslong as they don't give rediculous items like black and white crystals, I'll be happy. Nothing breaks immersion more than some jedi weilding some nerd porn. I mean, it's simple. Jedi blue-green-yellow-purple. Sith Red-Purple.
Aslong as they keep everything in the right look of the game, I'll be happy.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
If they have a cash shop, and a subscription system... I don't think I'll bother with SW:TOR. I was lookin forward to it, but so much good is coming out of 2010 that I'm not worried it'll be the only fun game to play at that time.
It is my opinion, that your opinion is incorrect.
I have no problem with item shops, its all fluff anyways.
I fully support RMT and will continue to do so, if SWTOR has it, ill be the first to purchase from it!
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Got a question for you Doubter.
Would you play if there was a cash shop that only dealt in non 'uber' items. I.E 'fluff'. Or would the very fact that there are microtransactions prevent you playing.
From what I understand, we're not forced to buy. We get the game plus content for our subscription. The microtransactions are for unneeded things.
Only thing that'll annoy me is if they get stupid like galaxies did with 'Wings' and halos. Stuff that breaks immersion.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
Nothing is needed. It is all optional. As long as you do not care about having fun in a game you are paying for.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
So I go to a baseball game and you are telling me I should get free food and a baseball cap with my ticket price?
I shouldn't have to pay extra for those side things?
You should also pay a sub fee for each inning. Although, I hear the "end game" is a bit of a let down..just more of the same grind.
Really though, why does everything devolve to bad analogies? Baseball caps and food....You have to physically make or prepare one for every customer that wants one. Item Shop products...you have a script that copies something, that was made (and hopefully QA'd) once, to someone's account.
The problem with analogies is that they are easy to pick apart and distract form the actual topic to more or so nit-picking (see previous paragraph for example).
For my money, an Item Shop is a negative. An item shop plus sub fee is a big negative. That's just my opinion and a factor in deciding how to spend my money. Will it keep me from playing the game; possibly. Depends on how intrusive it all feels. I'd love to have a good SW MMO to play again so I'll reserve judgement until I see the implementation.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I don't see the logic here.
Having game-altering microtransactions is like paying big bucks to get good seats at a ball game, but having a blocking screen pop up in front of you every inning, which you'd have to pay to remove. It is nothing like paying for hotdog or a cold brew. I have to pay for those when I'm playing MMOs, too.
I don't think anyone agrees with 'game altering' microtransactions. The arguement is people believe they should get all content with their subscription costs. However its not true. In a game like STO, theres poor content, they need more, but they waste their content building skills on cryptic store stuff, instead of adding content. Now if SwTOR has the content, then I guess they could get away with such a thing, eventually. First you need a solid game.
Thats why Cryptic are morons. Not all, just the ones who decided to add microtransactions WITH a sub.
Now I reckon its okay if its like... adds a new bunch of faces to choose from in character creator. However there has to be sufficiant amount of faces first by default. Otherwise its just them stealing money off you for content you should've already been given.
Longing for Skyrim, The Old Republic and Mass Effect 3
I really dislike item shops and micro-transactions. When I play a game, I want to relax and enjoy myself and forget about the real world....not constantly worry about how much real money I'm spending...or whether item X is worth the real dollars that I spend on it.
Not everyone is like that...but that's certainly my personal preference.
I look at it like one of those "all-inclusive" vacations where you pay one fee up front and you get to partake as much or as little as you want in the activities. That basicaly allows you to relax and forget about everything but the vacation and having fun while you're there.
There is nothing I hate more then having to dig into your wallet every time you want to do something or get something. It's not even the actual cost so much.... I don't mind paying premium dollar for a quality experience.... as it is the act of having to constantly think about how much you are spending (one of the reasons I hate gambling).
I'd rather pay a $30 a month sub fee and no micro-transactions then a $15 a month sub with RMT. At the very least...if they do open a RMT shop....I hope they offer Premium sub fee where you can pay a higher monthly sub....and then get anything that is availble in the cash shop for in-game currency or as an in-game drop. Call it an Unlimited Subscription or something like that.
My personal preference would be a one price subscription model with no cash shop....but if they do institute one..I'd rather they institute some sort of "all-inclusive" plan for those that don't want to bother with micro-transactions but still want access to everything that might be available in game.
I do not agree. The baseball metaphor was flawed. Nobody expects to get free hot dogs and beer when going to a baseball game. People do expect to get access to all the content and game altering items in MMOs, when paying a monthly fee however. Expansions are a different thing.
Blizzard has the their little pet and mount store, and I do not like it all. Hwever, mounts will not aid you in raid encounters or the end-game PvP that matters, arenas. Pets are purely vanity items. Blizzard's real additional cost content are their expansion packs. I'm willing to pay for more content if its a major update like, the mentioned WoW expansions. I think Blizzard also has a good handle on the pricing and frequency of the these expansions.
I'm fine with something like that. Paying $10 extra per month to be competitive is something I will not put up with.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
I think they'll be there. You only have 8 classes and a few of those are iconic lightsaber types. You don't think they're going to offer people to buy different colors or hilts, cloaks etc... common. That's like someone turning down a million dollar record deal because they don't want to be mainstream....that doesn't exist anymore. Welcome to 2010 and the decade of greed.
I can currently buy small content patches in mass effect 2 and dragon age for money. Why do people think the model will change because its an mmo?