I agree with everything except 2 points. Risk and Music.
First, Risk, I've played the hardcore games, FFXI, EQ, DArkfall and you can take that deleveling and that xp loss and full loot pvp crap elsewhere. I play games for fun, not challenge. I play them for new experiences, not whether I can beat that guy over there or look better.
Second, music is getting much better and I prefer the full fledged orchestras to some pansy ass Midi music looping over and over. I want an EPIC feel to the music and orchestras give this. Playing Ryzom and having no soundtrack, made me want to smack some developers around. Listening to EQ2, WoW, Lotro, and AoC music when I'm not in the game made me want to hop in and find those zones and just have fun in them.
Anyway, the rest of your points are fine. But I'm a huge stickler for game music and fun gameplay(i.e. slight death penalty).
Challenge can be quite fun.
I suggest you find something easier than MMORPGs to play....maybe Pac Man??
Gambler's rush makes a not-so-good game better but this doesn't work for everyone.
Challenge is not the same as punishment. It means that one must put atleast some effort and thinking to what one is doing. I love challenge but I don't acknowledge that harsh death penalty adds challenge. Adding timesinks is not challenging either.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Originally posted by Wharg0ul Originally posted by elocke I agree with everything except 2 points. Risk and Music. First, Risk, I've played the hardcore games, FFXI, EQ, DArkfall and you can take that deleveling and that xp loss and full loot pvp crap elsewhere. I play games for fun, not challenge. I play them for new experiences, not whether I can beat that guy over there or look better. Second, music is getting much better and I prefer the full fledged orchestras to some pansy ass Midi music looping over and over. I want an EPIC feel to the music and orchestras give this. Playing Ryzom and having no soundtrack, made me want to smack some developers around. Listening to EQ2, WoW, Lotro, and AoC music when I'm not in the game made me want to hop in and find those zones and just have fun in them. Anyway, the rest of your points are fine. But I'm a huge stickler for game music and fun gameplay(i.e. slight death penalty).
Challenge can be quite fun. I suggest you find something easier than MMORPGs to play....maybe Pac Man??
For you. I suggest you open your mind to the fact that there are people who don't crave challenge the way you do. They crave other aspects that MMO's offer.
I agree with everything the OP said, except trains which I don't care about one way or another.
I miss the danger, excitement, mystery, and sense of overwhelming size with real travel time that classic MMO's have. Death penalties need to have some bite.
I agree with everything except 2 points. Risk and Music.
First, Risk, I've played the hardcore games, FFXI, EQ, DArkfall and you can take that deleveling and that xp loss and full loot pvp crap elsewhere. I play games for fun, not challenge. I play them for new experiences, not whether I can beat that guy over there or look better.
Second, music is getting much better and I prefer the full fledged orchestras to some pansy ass Midi music looping over and over. I want an EPIC feel to the music and orchestras give this. Playing Ryzom and having no soundtrack, made me want to smack some developers around. Listening to EQ2, WoW, Lotro, and AoC music when I'm not in the game made me want to hop in and find those zones and just have fun in them.
Anyway, the rest of your points are fine. But I'm a huge stickler for game music and fun gameplay(i.e. slight death penalty).
Challenge can be quite fun.
I suggest you find something easier than MMORPGs to play....maybe Pac Man??
For you. I suggest you open your mind to the fact that there are people who don't crave challenge the way you do. They crave other aspects that MMO's offer.
Oh, the fact that people enjoy easy-mode games is all too aparent to me actually, by the sheer amount of them being made.
Also, the amount of sites dedicated to cheat codes and trainers around the internet....because having to WORK a little, EARN something, and CHALLENGE onself would be an affront to the "GIMME GIMME GIMME NAO!!!!" generation.
As anyone knows one man's 'magic' is another person's 'junk'.
There is a certain type of pickle that I can't get enough of. Just biting down on one makes my tastebuds feel like heaven. My best friend would take a bite and discard it since the taste has no appeal to him.
Not buying into contrarian arguments (i.e., but you may like it and another person may not). I think most everyone can get enjoyment out of the stuff I mentioned.
People talk about risk vs reward and how great it is. But if you really look at what they do, they take action to reduce their risk. So really what they want is the reward.
Now that you mention it, I realize the trains were possibly THE MOST FUN PART of Everquest for me. Yea I played an enchanter, hehe. NOTHING was more fun than JUST BARELY surviving the biggest train of 40 lizards, a couple gorillas and an Avatar of Fear you ever saw. Or derailing one completely. Or slaughtering the whole thing in an AE group. (Definitely managed to kill 40 frogs at once in sebilis) Even the midlevel zones had infinite replayability because of the random funny shit that would occur. Each one had its own character. They werent just a speed bump on the way to the "real" game, they WERE the real game. There wasn't even such thing as an endgame in the beginning. Many people upon hitting 50 would just quit or start a new character because there was nothing left to do. Well I see that as a benefit! There's a reason why it's called END game! Not beginning game!
Playing a high level zone wasnt even necessarily "harder" or more fun in fact I usually found 1-20 to be the most difficult levels beause you had no defenses and it was SOOO easy to be killed. Likewise they offered some of the most fun. I know, fun is subjective. One man's fun is another's hell. I would just get bored and quit my characters or the game entirely because the grind was practically endless past 40 until luclin and PoP made it a hell of a lot easier. And the new "endgame" was the biggest grind of all. Everquest was like life, sure it sucked sometimes but then you can't really have any rewards if you don't take any risks and the fun was worth the struggle. Getting wiped out by some loser intentionally training? Train em back. They loved that. I did not like it when they started hacking the client though, like you'd think the server would have some kind of check to see if someone just teleported halfway across the zone.
As anyone knows one man's 'magic' is another person's 'junk'.
There is a certain type of pickle that I can't get enough of. Just biting down on one makes my tastebuds feel like heaven. My best friend would take a bite and discard it since the taste has no appeal to him.
Not buying into contrarian arguments (i.e., but you may like it and another person may not). I think most everyone can get enjoyment out of the stuff I mentioned.
People talk about risk vs reward and how great it is. But if you really look at what they do, they take action to reduce their risk. So really what they want is the reward.
it'a another method of accomplishment....playing smart to minimise your risk. Without the risk there, there's no challenge, and without challenge, rewards are rather hollow.
Now that you mention it, I realize the trains were possibly THE MOST FUN PART of Everquest for me. Yea I played an enchanter, hehe. NOTHING was more fun than JUST BARELY surviving the biggest train of 40 lizards, a couple gorillas and an Avatar of Fear you ever saw. Or derailing one completely. Or slaughtering the whole thing in an AE group. (Definitely managed to kill 40 frogs at once in sebilis) Even the midlevel zones had infinite replayability because of the random funny shit that would occur. Each one had its own character. They werent just a speed bump on the way to the "real" game, they WERE the real game. There wasn't even such thing as an endgame in the beginning. Many people upon hitting 50 would just quit or start a new character because there was nothing left to do. Well I see that as a benefit! There's a reason why it's called END game! Not beginning game!
I agree with everything the OP said and also what Jaded_Raever said in the first half of the post. It was like they're reading this stuff right out of my own heart. Yes, I was an Enchanter also. A class completely devoted to CC with a few caster and melee buffs and debuffs, but their main focus was CC!
In today's shallow, casual MMO, you won't see this kind of thing. "A class whose main purpose is CC? GTFO!" is what today's new generation of MMO players would cry in disbelief if you even mentioned the notion. Everything is AoEable by almost any class combo.
I predict that in the future of WoW, there will be only a single class that goes by many names. Which 'class' you choose is only a name and will only change the way your t17 armor looks.
Someone earlier in this thread asked why we don't just go back to EQ1. The answer is that EQ is NOTHING like what it was between 1999 and 2001. It's almost, I dare say, a wow clone, when compared with it's former glory. Thankfully we have the EQCLASSIC project underway and perhaps in a couple years it'll be ready for us to play.
I agree with everything except 2 points. Risk and Music.
First, Risk, I've played the hardcore games, FFXI, EQ, DArkfall and you can take that deleveling and that xp loss and full loot pvp crap elsewhere. I play games for fun, not challenge. I play them for new experiences, not whether I can beat that guy over there or look better.
Second, music is getting much better and I prefer the full fledged orchestras to some pansy ass Midi music looping over and over. I want an EPIC feel to the music and orchestras give this. Playing Ryzom and having no soundtrack, made me want to smack some developers around. Listening to EQ2, WoW, Lotro, and AoC music when I'm not in the game made me want to hop in and find those zones and just have fun in them.
Anyway, the rest of your points are fine. But I'm a huge stickler for game music and fun gameplay(i.e. slight death penalty).
Challenge can be quite fun.
I suggest you find something easier than MMORPGs to play....maybe Pac Man??
Not challenge you will never beat, like hard mode Lich King. Challenge is only fun if you have some chance of beating it and not cost you like weeks and weeks of time.
I agree with everything except 2 points. Risk and Music.
First, Risk, I've played the hardcore games, FFXI, EQ, DArkfall and you can take that deleveling and that xp loss and full loot pvp crap elsewhere. I play games for fun, not challenge. I play them for new experiences, not whether I can beat that guy over there or look better.
Second, music is getting much better and I prefer the full fledged orchestras to some pansy ass Midi music looping over and over. I want an EPIC feel to the music and orchestras give this. Playing Ryzom and having no soundtrack, made me want to smack some developers around. Listening to EQ2, WoW, Lotro, and AoC music when I'm not in the game made me want to hop in and find those zones and just have fun in them.
Anyway, the rest of your points are fine. But I'm a huge stickler for game music and fun gameplay(i.e. slight death penalty).
Challenge can be quite fun.
I suggest you find something easier than MMORPGs to play....maybe Pac Man??
Not challenge you will never beat, like hard mode Lich King. Challenge is only fun if you have some chance of beating it and not cost you like weeks and weeks of time.
Comments
Challenge can be quite fun.
I suggest you find something easier than MMORPGs to play....maybe Pac Man??
Harsh DP =/= Challenge.
Harsh DP => Gambler's Rush
Gambler's rush makes a not-so-good game better but this doesn't work for everyone.
Challenge is not the same as punishment. It means that one must put atleast some effort and thinking to what one is doing. I love challenge but I don't acknowledge that harsh death penalty adds challenge. Adding timesinks is not challenging either.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
I suggest you find something easier than MMORPGs to play....maybe Pac Man??
For you. I suggest you open your mind to the fact that there are people who don't crave challenge the way you do. They crave other aspects that MMO's offer.
I agree with everything the OP said, except trains which I don't care about one way or another.
I miss the danger, excitement, mystery, and sense of overwhelming size with real travel time that classic MMO's have. Death penalties need to have some bite.
Oh, the fact that people enjoy easy-mode games is all too aparent to me actually, by the sheer amount of them being made.
Also, the amount of sites dedicated to cheat codes and trainers around the internet....because having to WORK a little, EARN something, and CHALLENGE onself would be an affront to the "GIMME GIMME GIMME NAO!!!!" generation.
People talk about risk vs reward and how great it is. But if you really look at what they do, they take action to reduce their risk. So really what they want is the reward.
no other game has given that same feeling that EQ did when it first came out.
Now that you mention it, I realize the trains were possibly THE MOST FUN PART of Everquest for me. Yea I played an enchanter, hehe. NOTHING was more fun than JUST BARELY surviving the biggest train of 40 lizards, a couple gorillas and an Avatar of Fear you ever saw. Or derailing one completely. Or slaughtering the whole thing in an AE group. (Definitely managed to kill 40 frogs at once in sebilis) Even the midlevel zones had infinite replayability because of the random funny shit that would occur. Each one had its own character. They werent just a speed bump on the way to the "real" game, they WERE the real game. There wasn't even such thing as an endgame in the beginning. Many people upon hitting 50 would just quit or start a new character because there was nothing left to do. Well I see that as a benefit! There's a reason why it's called END game! Not beginning game!
Playing a high level zone wasnt even necessarily "harder" or more fun in fact I usually found 1-20 to be the most difficult levels beause you had no defenses and it was SOOO easy to be killed. Likewise they offered some of the most fun. I know, fun is subjective. One man's fun is another's hell. I would just get bored and quit my characters or the game entirely because the grind was practically endless past 40 until luclin and PoP made it a hell of a lot easier. And the new "endgame" was the biggest grind of all. Everquest was like life, sure it sucked sometimes but then you can't really have any rewards if you don't take any risks and the fun was worth the struggle. Getting wiped out by some loser intentionally training? Train em back. They loved that. I did not like it when they started hacking the client though, like you'd think the server would have some kind of check to see if someone just teleported halfway across the zone.
it'a another method of accomplishment....playing smart to minimise your risk. Without the risk there, there's no challenge, and without challenge, rewards are rather hollow.
I agree with everything the OP said and also what Jaded_Raever said in the first half of the post. It was like they're reading this stuff right out of my own heart. Yes, I was an Enchanter also. A class completely devoted to CC with a few caster and melee buffs and debuffs, but their main focus was CC!
In today's shallow, casual MMO, you won't see this kind of thing. "A class whose main purpose is CC? GTFO!" is what today's new generation of MMO players would cry in disbelief if you even mentioned the notion. Everything is AoEable by almost any class combo.
I predict that in the future of WoW, there will be only a single class that goes by many names. Which 'class' you choose is only a name and will only change the way your t17 armor looks.
Someone earlier in this thread asked why we don't just go back to EQ1. The answer is that EQ is NOTHING like what it was between 1999 and 2001. It's almost, I dare say, a wow clone, when compared with it's former glory. Thankfully we have the EQCLASSIC project underway and perhaps in a couple years it'll be ready for us to play.
Not challenge you will never beat, like hard mode Lich King. Challenge is only fun if you have some chance of beating it and not cost you like weeks and weeks of time.
Well, I agree with you there.
I mean, there's challenging...which is fun...and then there's stupid hard....like Call Of Cthulhu, Dark Corners of The Earth.
That shit is just NOT fun. Anything that makes you wanna put your fist through your monitor is beyond the realm of enjoyable.