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Gold Farmers controlled?
Odysseyk
Member UncommonPosts: 42
The biggest reason I quit please FFXI was those stupid gold farmers. What is SE going to do to make sure that it doesnt happen again in FFXIV?
Nerd at heart.
Comments
The same things they've been doing in XI for the past 4 years.
The usual RMT complaint these days is "they send me a nasty /tell once a day Q_Q" so yah...
Thanks to the RMT Pwner 1.337 program they're using!
It was said in a past interview that they plan to fight RMT from the start but as to what method they will use nothing is known.
If they deal with RMT the way they have with FFXI the past few years then we probably won't even notice they are there unless we get the occasional spam /tell or something.
Since Square-Enix are the only develoeprs that have shown they really care about fighting off RMT and have all but entirely won in FFXI, you can be sure that whatever they're doing and more will be built into FFXIV from the start and RMT will never get started...they'll try for sure, but won't get anywhere!
The problem with RMT (bots/etc) is that it's a pain for the players but a necessary evil for a low-pop world. Blessing in disguise for the owner of the game since they have to pay monthly fees. But that's not something we can really say anything about.
The problem with a game that just starts out is that nobody has any money. At least not without getting quite lucky. So the market is driven by bots to a certain degree. Like in AiON, they left the bots alone for a while and mats were cheap a lot of things didn't really need to be grinded. Until the banhammer came down and POOF no more bots, but mats jumped up like crazy and things were just not sustainable. At least not in the quantities required by the game. So, it's really a very tricky thing they have to manage in terms of the economy vs player wellbeing vs profit.
This is ofc related to previous crafting experience in other games where there's various degrees of rareness of materials for crafting/quests/etc.
As has been pointed out before, ultimately, what any sort of RMT seller does is sell TIME. Whether it's the time you'd need to get a certain amount of gold, mats, or levels, it still boils down to time. And, more often than not, the best seller is time that ISN'T fun, aka grinding. So the design of the game will do a lot to determine how big of a market is waiting for the farmers in the first place, while gameplay mechanics will determine how easy it is to make a collection of bots do the dirty work.
I just hope that S-E has decided that it's worthwhile to clamp down on botting from day 1, rather than realize it several months after the fact, when it's gotten out of control.
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
If nobody purchased RMT goods, there would not be a market.
/thread
Point the finger at yourselves!
Look what happened to Aion...
If you sincerely believe that abstinence works, I do have a lot of sadness for the thought process. As the poster above me mentioned, the RMT'ers are selling time. Just like when you hire a contractor to look @ your plumbing, clean your air ducts etc etc. You are buying their time, and consequently you're reusing your time (that you've spent working) on actually having fun.
I am not saying to people "buy gold/kinah/w.e". But some people will find that an attractive option. When you've got 2-3 hours of game play a day and they come home tired and other crap on their minds, they wish to have fun. From this particular point of view the game fails to deliver to an audience. And these people will find it an option. After all I play the game to have fun not to have a 2nd job. At least not when I have a job.
Then there's the kids with money from their parents that just don't wish to go through all the hoops. Now those, I dislike. You've got the time, probably in HS/Uni (this one requires a ton more commitment but enough about uni), you've got the energy (unless heavy drinking has occurred the night b4 -- even then) So why would you buy it.
Anyway, these are only two of the targeted audiences by RMTs. They are the growing pains of a game first starting out and will always be there as long as the game makers don't step up and allow a system (see eve online) for the people that will buy in game currency to actually help out the other members of the community and the company itself.
Couldn't have said that any better, they ruined FFXI for a LONG time! If lazy people didn't buy RMT gold/items/accounts then we wounldn't be having this conversation. You shouldn't be mad at the people who figured out there are a few bucks to be made off lazy gamers hellbent on being the "best on the server/game" but the gamers THEMSELVES. Inside the problem lies the solution.
If the bots were never allowed to dig themselves in from the start then the economy would not hyper-inflate and the prices would stabilise on their own... Bots and RMT are nothing but trouble for virtual economies since they monopolise everything and price fix in order to gain complete control over the flow of in-game currency.
In Aion's case though it doesn't help that NCSoft basically designs all their games expecting their players to bot everything...
SE has a zero tolerance policy for any form of cheating/botting or RMT and they are very good at tracking who's buying currency. I think a lot of people that are used to buying gold in other games are going to get a shock when they try it in XIV...
So very true, SE doesn't just ban the farmers and sellers...they track and ban the buyers too.
I probably sold and bought(to sell it for more) over 1 billion gil in FFXI in my time playing and i never got banned, ill most likely do it again in FFXIV.
I think we're justified in being mad at BOTH groups of people.
Honestly, what is most interesting is that what works with SE for stopping RMT is epic fail as a drug policy -- well, I think the reasons why this is are interesting.
Note: I say "you" in this post in the general sense... not at anyone in particular.
All I have to say is this..
A favored mantra for pro-RMT people for a long time was, "Why is it anyone else's business if I buy in-game money? It's not affecting anyone else."
It was a BS statement before, given how it's been proven in many MMOs just how badly RMT can screw up a game's economy, making it extremely difficult for anyone but those buying their in-game money to afford anything (precisely what the RMT's want). And anyone who is giong to say "nuh uhhh..." don't bother. It does, and it has. Ask anyone who was in FFXI throughout the period how bad the economy got when RMT were rampant. Ask them how it fell back down to earth once SE stepped in and started screwing up their operations. It's a *huge* difference. Night and day.
However.. now it goes beyond that.
The RMT companies whose business some claim "isn't affecting anyone else" are now resorting to hacking accounts through keyloggers.. stealing people's accounts, changing the passwords, stripping their characters and selling everything off, clearing out guild banks when possible, using characters for RMT spam 'til they get banned... and so forth. I've heard of people's WoW accounts getting hacked, and the RMT company actually applying a security token to it so the real owner couldn't get in to fix it.
Some of the activities they're using have crossed the line to becoming criminal. Yes, criminal. That's not hyperbole.
Yet.. there are people who are still going to stand there, eyes closed, fingers in their ears saying "lalalala can't hear you!" just so they can continue cheating their way through the game, thus supporting these so-called "businesses".
If you purchase in-game money, in any MMO, you are *the* source of the problem. And yes, what you're doing *does* have an affect on many others - a very serious one.
You can't plead ignorance anymore. You can't plead innocence anymore. It's not "no one else's business" anymore, because it has *become* everyone else's business whose accounts have been hacked by the types of "companies" *you* continue to do business with.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
no you didnt, and good luck in ffxiv.
I think it comes down to national identity in a strange kind of way with regards RMT tolerance by gaming companies. Square Enix, a Japanese company, is very strict on game rules, while NCsoft a Korean company accepts that game cheating may/will occur. Factor into this as a reason the PCbang culture in Korea where they just pay to play in a cafe then perhaps the idea of unofficial RMT "cash shop" is probably seen as harmless unless they gaming company has a cash shop and it hurts its business. Anyway regardless, the cultural difference will mean pretty low tolerance of RMT in FF XIV, Western WoW players have nothing to fear from a sea of bots that they had to endure in Aion upon retail release.
well said. i agree with you 100%Well since they are well aware of it, they already said there going to combat it from the start, they must have some forum of programming/plan involved in stopping it or tracking the players involved. I have never seen a dev in any other game say anything about combating it until the game is out the door, so I hope they have something in place. CGF has gotten much worse than it was in the hey days of ffxi.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
I think you have an important point there.
I have to admit I wanted to buy money a few times. When I see all those millions I usually first think 'I want to buy it'.
How much time would it cost me to get that money, I know I can get the money on my own, it would only take me x amount of hours/days to farm. I have to farm on things I find boring, which means a boring time... I only can play a few hours a day, a few days a week, which means a lot of boring gameplay days before I can do things I enjoy. Many other people take this advance, why shouldn't I take it? Etc.etc.etc.
Enough excuses to think about why you should buy it.
I guess I am really an evil girl. Or maybe more people think about it, and feel ashamed for it, and don't dare to admit it. Well I am also ashamed for it, but I don't see a point in lying. I think a lot of people with enough money would think about it, off course most of us will throw the idea away, because when you think further it is stupid thing to do.
It hurts you on the long run, because the money is created by the RMT people you hate so much, which is something you really want to forget when you thinking about buying money.
And I think this is what everyone should know. People need to understand they hurt themselfs by buying money. There is a great item that drops from a certain enemy, but well... you can never hunt it because it is camped by RMT people...
In ff11 SE had to implement their data mining for RMTs years after the game was made. In ff14 I imagine they're designing the game with that in mind already. So I would assume the effectiveness of whatever measures they have against RMTs are the same as or better than ff11.
As for wanting to buy gil, if only considering yourself obviously it's a logical chocie if you have a even remotely decent job. But most of the time it's bad for people who can't/won't buy gil. Since the majority of people generally don't buy gil and SE makes no money off gil sales, it's pretty reasonable for them to be against RMTs.
On a side note though, the amount of RMT activity does somewhat reflect the popularity of the game and the mindset of its player base.
-a
Maybe, just maybe they'll design the game so it isn't full of dull, repetivite tasks that bore players to the point purchasing gil in the first place?
Was just a thought. I blame developers as much as the farmers and buyers for the problem, all share part of the blame.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Theres CGF in games thats easy to make money, Theres even cgf in games that have cash shops that allow the players to sell the cs items in the auction house. CGF are in every game. As long is theres a good population playing a game theres going to be CGF. Game design doesnt matter in terms of cgf, there going to be there.
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Completely agree. As long as there is ANY way to measure how far your character has advanced, there will be people who will pay money to advance themselves instantly instead. "Fun" is largely irrelevant (subjective too), and so is the amount of time it takes to accomplish everything there is to accomplish. Making the game shorter doesn't mean that people don't want the shortcut. The only true cure for powerlevelling/RMT would be a game where your character does not advance at all in any way.
(What does GCF stand for?)
GCF? you mean CGF? Chinese gold Farmer
Waiting for:EQ-Next, ArcheAge (not so much anymore)
Now Playing: N/A
Worst MMO: FFXIV
Favorite MMO: FFXI
Well, it wouldn't eliminate RMT, but it would still reduce incentives. I admit early on my second char, a long time ago, I did buy a few mil gil (I sold a lot more on my first char :P). But after ISNMs came out and dynamis entry fee got reducted, along with earlier stuff like BCNM, sky, and solo limbus, I didn't ever feel a need or even want to buy gil.
By designing good game mechanics, SE can increase cost to RMTs versus the value of currency they can offer.
-a