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New Build Suggestions?
I posted a rig some time ago, but I have done some more research and figured I would get your great advice. Thanks in advance.
Case: Case(New Window)">Antec Nine Hundred Two
CPU: Processor Model BX80605I5750(New Window)">Intel Core i5-750 Lynnfield 2.66GHz LGA 1156 95W Quad-Core Processor Model
MOBO: Motherboard(New Window)">ASUS P7P55D-E LGA 1156 Intel P55 SATA 6Gb/s USB 3.0 ATX Intel Motherboard
GPU: PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready CrossFireX Support Video Card(New
Window)">XFX HD-577A-ZNFC Radeon HD 5770 (Juniper XT) 1GB 128-bit GDDR5 PCI Express 2.0 x16 HDCP Ready
RAM: (PC3 12800) Desktop Memory Model F3-12800CL9D-4GBRL(New Window)">G.SKILL Ripjaws Series 4GB (2 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
HD: 3.0Gb/s 3.5">Western Digital Caviar Blue WD5000AAKS 500GB 7200 RPM SATA 3.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive
DVD: AD-7240S-0B - OEM(New Window)">Sony Optiarc 24X DVD/CD Rewritable Drive Black SATA Model AD-7240S-0B - OE
PSU: Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Certified Modular Active PFC ...(New
Window)">OCZ ModXStream Pro OCZ600MXSP 600W ATX12V V2.2 / EPS12V SLI Certified CrossFire Ready 80 PLUS Cert.
Keyboard: Window)">RAZER Lycosa Black USB Wired Standard Gaming Keyboard
Mouse: Gaming Mouse(New Window)">Logitech G500 10 Buttons Dual-mode Scroll Wheel USB Wired Laser Gaming Mouse
Monitor: SAMSUNG P2250 Rose Black 21.5" 2ms(GTG) Widescreen LCD Monitor
I plan on running this with Windows 7 Home 64bit. I want a gaming rig that will be good now and for some time to come. I don't need an gaming-machine-from-hell, just something that will allow me to really enjoy my games without any hassle. Is this a good choice for the money? Any suggestions would be great! Thanks so much!
Games Played: World of Warcraft, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2 and Star Wars Galaxies.
Comments
Only thing Im thinking, at a glance, is perhaps choosing the WD 640 gig Caviar Black, w/6.0 Gb/s and 64 MB cache.
Youv'e got the board for it, and the price on the Black, isn't bad. 79.99 at newegg, free shipping.
Also I might suggest the Thrmaltake Contact 29 120mm ball cooler, for your CPU. Again you've got the board and CPU to up the clock some, everything Ive read on this cooler is very good, and would be my choice. 36.99 at newegg.
Past that, I think, without checking, that your'e PSU, will be large enough to handle a card up grade in a year or two, but double check, in case you need a little extra for a slight overclock, say to around 3.0, or so. It may be you will want an extra 50 watts or so for eventual(Possible) card-up & overclock.
But regardless it looks like a good system and will probably be nice to game on. Others with more knowledge, than I, will probably have beter advice.
Happy Trails
change the screen buy true HD 1920 x1080 23 inch !that the true HD res and screen size make sure it support
24 hrtz !
Great advice. Thanks so much. I will absolutely take a look at the HD, CPU cooler and PSU. I'll also take a look at the new screen. Thanks again guys, I really appreciate it!
Games Played: World of Warcraft, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2 and Star Wars Galaxies.
I'm curious, what's the rough total going to be on that? A lot of the links don't seem to be playing nicely with Newegg's site, but I'm getting about $800 for everything not including the monitor or a copy of Windows. Is that about right? I ask because I'm concerned that maybe you've under-spending a little on the GPU. Typically, I tend to try to spend somewhere in the area of maybe 40% on the GPU setup for a gaming rig, and given your price range, I wonder if something like a Radeon HD 5850 might be more appropriate? Granted, it would cost about $130 more (a few are available for $299), but given that you'd see a pretty big boost in gaming performance (50%, maybe?), I think it'd be a very worthwhile investment over a single 5770.
It's just a thought.
I think the build is pretty good, I do actually agree with Catamount, that build warrants a faster GPU. I always calculate it different though, I like to spend about 50% more on the GPU relative to the CPU. So i5-750 ($200) = Radeon 5850 ($300), Phenom II X3 720 ($110) = Radeon 5770 ($165), etc.
That actually does work pretty well with how I usually end up building my machines, Noquarter, so it's good to see that others proportion things out a lot like I do. For instance, my present machine has a Phenom II X-4 965 (better deals with motherboards than I was finding with the Core I5s at the time), which cost me $189 at the time. It also has a pair of Radeon HD 5770s which I was able to barely squeeze by with $300 for.
In fact, OP, if you're willing to get a crossfire motherboard, 5770s in Crossfire are probably still the best deal. They'll run $310-$320 it looks like, but they'll match a 5870 in performance in most titles as opposed to a 5850, especially at 1920x1080, where Crossfire and SLI really shine. The only drawback is that you might end up spending more on a motherboard. Really though, you can get one with 2 PCIE 16x slots that will run 8x/8x for $150, the same your first choice went for.
Again, these are just options
Im looking at upgrading to the same model (deluxe version) motherboard as the OP. As far as I know all of the P7P55D-E are hybrids supporting both crossfire and SLI. Many of the newer intel motherboards are this way (I dont think any AMD motherboards are capable of this yet)
No AMD board will likely every support this feature, and here's why:
SLI and Crossfire compatibility really are just dependent on what the GPU and chipset vendor each wants to code drivers for. Crossfire works on ALL MOTHERBOARDS, with ALL chipsets, except on Nvidia chipsets. SLI, by contrast ONLY works on Nvidia chipsets, and on a very select few "SLI Certified" Intel-based motherboards. In short, it's another case where Ati/AMD is as open as possible, while Nvidia is as restrictive as possible to try to force you to buy all of your hardware from them if you want to own any hardware from them.
You are right about these boards though, at least, for your version. The P7P55D-E Pro and Deluxe both support SLI (and, again, support CrossfireX by default), but, sadly, just the normal P7P55D-E does not. Apparently, Nvidia hasn't "certified" it for their GPUs, at least not yet.
Yep, it costs the mobo manufacturer $5 per mobo to have it 'certified' by nVidia to support SLI, which is just a string in the bios.. yay.
Sorry about the links. I am not sure why they don't work, but we can get the general idea without them. Thanks so much for your advice. Total with monitor and windows is $1240ish
Games Played: World of Warcraft, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, Asheron's Call 2 and Star Wars Galaxies.
Alright, yeah, that's around $950 for the tower there (maybe a little more) if you're getting an OEM copy of WIndows, and $160 is way too little to be spending on the GPU of a gaming machine in that range. Even if you had to chip away at other parts a little to fit in a more expensive GPU, it would still be worthwhile. If you don't want to dive into Crossire, the 5850 is sitting in a good spot for you. That said, the best bang for your buck is either putting in two 5770s, or even two 5750s, as they can be gotten for $110-120 a pop (considerably cheaper than the 5770 for a marginal performance drop).
In any case, I hope you enjoy the new machine.
If your only concern is gaming, I would not recommend an intel system. Intels Core i5 socket is already abadoned by the way!
If you are able and know how/want to overclock then go for a Phenom II 965 + Scythe SCMG-2100 cooler (scythe mugen 2).
Oh and also crossfire/sli is a total NO-GO, it does NOT give you 100% more performance (more like 30-60% depending on the game and drivers) and it uses more power, generates more heat and there are some issues with micro stutters!
Go for a single graphics card for sure.
Either 5770 (if silent go for hawk) or 5850.
2slow4flo, I don't know where you got the idea that the "Core i5 socket" (presumably you mean LGA1156) was abandoned, but this is flat wrong. Intel has just released 32nm Clarkdale chips for this platform within the past few months. We have no indications, at least insofar as I'm aware, that AM3 is going to outlive either LGA1156 or LG1366, unless of course you'd care to cite a source.
As for SLI and Crossfire, you're hardly presently a balanced view of this technology. First, gains are often notably higher than 60% at high resolutions (and the OP is getting a 1080P monitor), and are almost univerally higher than 30%. Profiling for dual-GPUs is pretty much a ubiquitous thing for games these days. Furthermore, two 5770s are often notably faster than a single 5850, which makes them a much better value, given the roughly equivalent prices. Take for example, this Radeon HD 5770 review with Crossfire numbers from Guru3D. Just look at the framerates for games running at 1920x1080/1920x1200:
Far Cry 2: 5770: 32fps; 5850: 51fps; 2x5770: 58fps
Anno 1404: 5770: 51fps; 5850: 72fps; 2x5770: 76fps
COD5: 5770: 46fps; 5850: 55fps; 2x5770: 85fps
HAWX: 5770: 48fps; 5850: 65fps; 2x5770: 89fps
Crysis Warhead: 5770: 26fps; 5850: 38fps; 2x5770: 38fps
Mass Effect: 5770: 60fps; 5850: 94fps; 2x5770: 116fps
Fallout 3: 5770: 50fps; 5850: 66fps; 2x5770: 91fps
BIA: 5770: 63fps; 5850: 92fps; 2x5770: 121fps
On average, the two 5770s in Crossfire average 25% faster than a single 5850, which costs the same amount, and 77% faster than a singly 5770. Those are hardly the paltry gains you describe. Even accounting for the added cost of a Crossfire motherboard, dual 5770s are a better deal than a 5850, or a 5870 for that matter (which costs $100 more), as dual 5770s will usually match or outperform a single 5870 in performance (the only exception there being Crysis Warhead, which proved to be a low outlier in the tests for dual GPUs, something that may be fixed later on).
I won't deny that Crossfire and SLI are less than super-efficient schemes where power and heat are concerned, but they allow you more fexibility to do things like Crossfire a pair of 5770s and blow away anything that you could get with a single-card setup for the price.
As for micro-stuttering, that only occurs at low framerates (usually 30fps or below). It's caused by latency in communication between the cards, and is an issue that needs to be resolved, but it's not something that causes a noticeable reduction in apparent framerate unless your already getting low framerates anyways.
It's not a universally good solution at all price-points, but it's also not universally bad as you imply. Dual-GPU solutions were once susceptible to the problems you outlined, but they've come a long ways since.
Now, I will certainly agree than Phenom II X4 CPUs are good processors, and sometimes you can get good deals on AM3 motherboards that make them worthwhile. That said, I'd say it's a wash between those and Core I5 CPUs. It's also very much true that 8GB of RAM is a waste, like you said. At this point, even having more than 4 is a waste, though 6GB is still common for tripple channel systems.
Intels new CPUs called Sandybridge will require a new socket called LGA 1155.
Which means that the old socket LGA 1156 is abandoned.
Source (german though, I'm sorry)
http://www.computerbase.de/news/hardware/prozessoren/intel/2010/april/erste_intel-sandy_bridge-cpus/
While on the AM3 side you will still have hexacores and maybe even octacore processors.
And concerning the dual card setup, you are right. But still the disadvantage in heat/power consumption does not really make up for the performance increase you get if you bought two 5770 instead of one 5850.
And concerning the price, the 5850 costs 300$ while 2x5770 cost at least 300$ with an alternative cooling solution. And a 5850 is enough for 1900x1200.
A core i5 setup costs like 50-80$ more compared to an am3 setup with phenom II + usb 3.0 + sata III.
But of course intel's advertisment section is far superior to amds. So most people will buy intel cpus/mainboards.
Also I think I read that if you want to test amd hardware as a magazine or whatever you only get a cpu and have to buy the rest of the hardware for a review yourself while intel supports you with a wider range of hardware (almost a complete pc even with a nvidia graphics card etc).
So that's why you mostly see intel hardware used for comparisons.
But of course just do whatever you want or like. I know that I'm no fanboy of any manufacturer, be it nvidia/intel/amd/ati.
But if your only concern is gaming Amd/Ati is the way to go now. Maybe that'll change once intel drops their prices on mainboards and processors or when Nvidia releases their next graphics card generation.
Greetings,
Flo
actually, to chime in on the post above me.. the Phenom X6 is due to be released on the 27th of this month. Its gonna be much pricier than both the i5 and the 965, but being only a few days away from seeing "real" benchmarks it may be worth holding off on your decision to buy an i5
its one of the reasons I havnt upgraded yet as I was also considering an i5 750 setup.
No one with a decent power supply is incapable of running a pair of 5770s. It's not like 100W breaks the bank, and if it does, then your PSU is lousy and a good candidate for replacement.
Secondly, at no point is the "heat" from a pair of 5770s going to cause any trouble. It seems clear that you're not speaking as anyone who actually has experience with dual-GPU setups. My dual-5770 setup uses stock cooling with nothing but the benefit of a decent midrange case, and neither of them gets above 65C-70C under typical load (80C in Furmark), which one will hit all by itself anyways. There is no need for an "alternative cooling solution".
Lastly, it's not about your personal opinion of "what's enough", it about options at various price points. It's for the OP to decide "what's enough". You're making an arbitrary decision for that person. Two 5770s are significantly superior to a single 5850; that's quantifiable fact, and quantifiable facts are what we should be offering when it comes to advising on hardware. We shouldn't be offering subjective opinions, unless noting them as such, and we shouldn't be using the top of our heads as a source unless we actually have experience with what we're talking about. I don't mean to be rude, but wrong information does not help the OP.
"Intels new CPUs called Sandybridge will require a new socket called LGA 1155.
Which means that the old socket LGA 1156 is abandoned."
I'm sure AMD's new Bulldozer chips will require a new socket as well. I certainly can't predict the future, but I wouldn't be surprised if these latest Phenom II X6 CPUs are the last AM3 CPUs made. For the moment, however, AM3 and LG1156 are all we have access too as consumers.
Problem is that Intels LGA 1156 was released in september 2009 and I don't know when amd's am2+ / am3 socket was released, but it was and still is living way longer than intel's stupid sockets which get changed just to make customers buy their brand new mainboards every 0,5-1 years.
And recommending a sli/crossfire build to someone, who does NOT own one graphics card yet but wants to buy a completely new rig, are just plain stupid. No matter how you look at it.
Have fun destroying my post though, I'm out anyways.
thats a very nice build. Everything I see is from great quality brands! Though for the Motherboard I personally go for the Gigabyte brand. ASUS is very good too! I have an ASUS laptop. Good luck with it!!
AM3 was introduced about 6 months earlier according to Wikipedia, but really, that's neither here nor there. I think you have a short memory when it comes to Intel and AMD. Intel's primary CPU socket last generation outlasted AMD's be a longshot. How many sockets did AMD go through while LGA775 was around? 3? I like AMD (certainly a lot more than Intel), and I'll fully give them credit for inventing integrated memory controllers, but let's not kid ourselves; history is not on AMD's side on this one.
What's more, it's not like the OP is going to replace their CPU within a year, so it really doesn't matter either way.
"And recommending a sli/crossfire build to someone, who does NOT own one graphics card yet but wants to buy a completely new rig, are just plain stupid. No matter how you look at it."
and here I thought we had talked about that whole fact vs unsubstantiated opinion matter...
What you are giving here is a personal opinion with no backing from fact, whatsoever. In the OP's pricerange, Crossfire offers vastly better performance for the money, and your supposed concerns about heat and power aren't really concerns of any sort with such power-efficient midrange cards, somethign I can safely say as someone who's actually used multi-GPU setups, and who can back his opinions with hard numbers.
It's not stupid "no matter how you look at it". For those of us who are conerned with what will factually yield good results on a build, it really represents an attractive option, and you don't have a single argument with which to based disagreement on, hence this completely unsubstantiated statement, which, I remind you, doesn't help the OP in the least.
Go and buy a core i5 or even a core i7 mb+cpu if you got money.
And surely go for crossfire!
A little late, given that I have a Phenom II X4 965 (125W) on an Asus Crosshair III Formula. The deal on the motherboard made AM3 an attractive deal.
No one ever said don't buy AMD CPUs; there's just no reason to tell people to not buy Intel CPUs if that's what they're looking for. I personally have no trouble recommending either, and at some price points AMD really has Intel plastered (Athlon II X4s are stellar CPUs for under $100), just as the reverse is also true.
I also already have a Crossfire setup with two 5770s, running cool and quite happily with power to spare on a midrange 750W PSU from my last build (that only set me back $60 due to a good sale), and for only $310, those two cards match or beat any single GPU setup on the market, save the GTX480 and the upcomming 5890. Incidentally, these two cards only consume about 50W more than a single 5870. 50W more to get the performance of a 5870 (or better) for $130 less (at the time of purchase), and the redundancy of a second card if the first card should fail, so that I have sometime to run with while I replaced the failed part.
I'm not sure I've ever made a better investment, so thanks for the advice (/mild sarcasm )