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Cash Shop Steed paves the way to MMO Hell
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Cash shops aren't going anywhere. Yes, people like the TC will fight it kicking and screaming, only to find that it happens anyway because a significant number of players are willing to pay for things like this.
$25 is nothing to me. I hope Blizzard goes crazy with the petstore. I hope they release new ones monthly.
There are a whole load of flaws in your Sophistry Gdemami.
You assume that making assumptions is bad. But is it? I assume the sun will rise tomorrow, that I will be paid for the work I do, and that I won't drop dead from a meteorite impact tomorrow morning. We all make assumptions, in order to live our lives. If we are sane and rational, we base those assumptions on the strongest evidence we have available.
Assumptions aren't a bad thing. They are a necessity. The trick is to discard those without foundation.
So those who argue that Blizzard is likely to go further can use the history of another company (Sony) to justify their claims.
What about the poster I originally responded to - the guy who assumed Blizzard wouldn't go any further. On what was he basing his assumption? It seems to me that it was based on nothing but a combination of faith and sticking his head in the sand.
Another major flaw in your argument is mistaking an assumption for a conclusion. My point wasn't "I assume Blizzard is going to go further with RMT". My point was instead "We have seem other companies, such as Sony proceed down this slippery slope, so it is wrong to assume Blizzard will not". Turning this into an assumption about Blizzard shows a failure of comprehension of basic grammar.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
Being able to move more quickly around your MMO world is a game altering advantage. The Celestial steed can be used from level 20; I think normal mounts are level 40? Add to that you don’t need to pay the 40 gold plus for a mount.
Also we are talking baby steps. Some F2P MMOs at launch sell a huge range of game altering items, but most only sell a core of exploitative essentials. Within two years of launch they all sell a fall range. If Blizzard can get away with this, next year I will be doing a thread about XP potions in WoW.
You see the idea that our lives are set in amber in so many areas of life. So many people think that nothing changes so they look at something new that is negative and go “well that’s as far as it goes”. There is nothing in life which is not the result of forces pushing for change and forces holding change back. Where change is for the worse unless something works against it will just keep coming.
This is why I suggested a boycott the 'insert cash shop item name' here thread in your MMO. Leaving a MMO is a bit drastic, though for many it will come to that eventually. My prediction is that if we do nothing but ‘tut tut’ on here RMT will just keep coming. That’s why I do threads on the official boards of MMO’s I play, talk to guildies and so on.
That is your assumptions about my thinking, not mine.
And again, it is not a flaw of mine that you do not understand terms, basics of reasoning and your lack of comprehension.
All was already said and repeating unlikely educates you.
Tell me what would be too much in your opinion. Or, perhaps, you don't want to place a marker that you will have to recind once Blizzard crosses it?
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
First of all i don't play magic the gathering so this is not me defending it as i think its a money sink that i do not have the money or the time for. But it is insane to compare buying a virtual horse that you DO NOT own to a physical card that you DO own. The virtual horse has absolutly NO LEGAL value in your hands as you do not own it, while Magic cards do have LEGAL value as you are the owner of the card and can do what you please with it ie. sell it or trade it or eat it. Why cant people see this comparison is awful?
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
That is your assumptions about my thinking, not mine.
And again, it is not a flaw of mine that you do not understand terms, basics of reasoning and your lack of comprehension.
All was already said and repeating unlikely educates you.
You don't have basic lines of reasoning. You simply have sophistry. And an inability to admit when you are wrong.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
MMO players of 2010 are getting to be impressively non-impressive. BAAAAAAAA
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Glad some of us know how to pick and choose their battles still. I'm not the biggest fan of Blizzard or these game shops in subbed games and I don't support it by not paying into it.
Take each of their decisions and choices on a case-by-case basis because if we all start crying over the trivial stuff, no one is going to believe us if something serious really does happen. Companies will just take it as the same old routine being played again -- boy who cried wolf anyone?
In terms of it being an advantage is an obvious stretch to fit your own argument and it truly has no solid basis. The proportion is so small and I prefer to not take such an "extremist view" on these things.
Sure, you might be saving a total of 400g at a m aximum but was it really an advantage when that person paid $25 for it? How much is WoW gold selling on the commodities market these days? If you want to play this game, Doubter, then theoretically, that would have been a mount that costed 2-3k gold in-game, totally negating this "advantage". How many cases of mountain dew can one college student buy with $25 dollars, I would say that would cost people a serious disadvantage of not benig caffeinated enough to continue playing in the wee nights to get that next Sword of a Thousand Truths, item level a million, gearscore infinite.
Video game issues shouldn't be so political, but it strangely is. Funny and ironic how much time is being wasetd on posts arguing about semantics and what is/isn't an advantage. Let's start practicing practical thinking and less extremism.
Just curious: what is the MMO Hell that the epic thread title points too? I'm not trying to be a bastard here as your position is clear; however, I don't feel as though you've followed through on just where you feel this is heading.
Are you saying that soon all MMOs will have a sub and a shop? Are you saying that only the best items will be available for sale in said MMOs? In your opinion, are all cash shops bad? Or just the ones in sub games?
What is the "worst case scenario"?
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
Simple solution don't support them! But the fact is it's never going to happen people whine and complain but take no action you sit back and play the game meaning the company that is doing it knows they can do it without any kind of backlash. I don't see anything good coming out of what has been happening over the past few years. Lets face it the future of MMO's are not looking good at all and after FFXI is dead I'm done.
So in Item shop threads in the past, the majority of gamers agree that vanity items are fine. But when the top MMO implements vanity items everyone cries the sky is falling?
Sounds like the typical "double standard for the top dog' if you ask me.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
Sounds like you're only reading half of the posts, to me.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
Actually - there's no double standards at all.
In my case, I've maintained all along that I don't want to play an item shop game. That's why I've been paying a subscription for an MMO.However, I recognise that there are plenty of people around, many of them either children, or living in poorer countries, who can't afford to pay a regular subscription. So I recognise that many of these people still enjoy playing MMO's, and I don't really have any problem with another business model existing to support this market.
That's much the same as my dislike of sprouts. I won't eat any meals with sprouts in them, but I've got no problem with the existence of the sprout industry.
However, where I do have a problem is where cash shops find their way into pay to play games. If they are found to be profitable, and people don't drop their subscriptions when they are introduced, then they will spread. So as a player who doesn't like cash shops, where else am I to go?
I like the situation where there are two different payment models - subscription and cash shop. I don't like the situation where there are only cash shops and cash shops with subscription.
Or - to go back to my sprout analogy - it's as if I'd woken up one day and found out that sprouts were so profitable that they'd been mixed into every meal in the supermarkets, and there was nothing I could buy that didn't taste of sprout.
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
In some games cash shops do imbalance a game. In others it doesn't. I don't play the games where people can buy their way to victory, or where gameplay is slowed down unless you buy outrageously priced items(most f2p games). In a few games, though, the cash shop offers a convenience or fluff. I don't mind those.
If, however, there is a cash shop, and its appropriate I do expect the developer to reinvest a portion of that cash back into the game. Sadly, I only see one company do this, and its Turbine. WoW is so slow to add content its mindboggling. They should be a leader in this field. Instead its CCP and Turbine that add tons of content to their games.
I support cash shops that don't imbalance the game, and enable the company to add more content(Turbine). I don't support cash shop games that imbalances or slows down gameplay(most F2P games), or just use the cash to line the CEO's pocket(WOW/SOE).
I believe the actual total savings after faction discounts is about 169 gold once you have epic flying. If you have epic flying you just spent 5000 gold (4000- 4500 after faction discounts) on the training (cost not affected by Celestial Steed). The first regular mount can be bought at level 20 and costs less than 1g. 1g at level 20 is not a lot of gold So at any point in the progression when you can afford the training, you can afford the mount easily. 169 gold might seem like a lot to a new player but it is spread out over at least 70 levels (epic flying requires level 70 to train) and most of the costs is paid after level 70 at which point it is not much gold.
I highly doubt most people would care. There are already ways of get extra mount with money (buying a loot card from ebay, for example) for a LONG time.
So Blizz does RMT, big deal. It is an obvious trend. Some may complain but judging from the huge sales Blizz did, most people will be delighted to buy the mount.
Things change. Games change. It is unwise to just blindly holding onto the past.
Like it or not, WOW has changed the industry and expand it.
- Raiding used to be exclusive to the few percent of the hardcore players .. no longer the case
- Grinding use to be slow with lots of down-time ... no longer the case
.....
Blizz put the GAME back into MMORPG and now they are moving in a new direction that the industry seems to be moving towards. I don't think anything will stop them. Either you are ok with it or you can quit WOW.
I really don't have much more of a problem with a gaming company having a cash shop than I do with the fact that I'm charged sub fees that do include some semblence of profit. I don't use the cash shops but the trouble is far too many people do use them for me to see it as something I need to rally against, what I can do again is make sure I'm not contributing to the bottom line in that way and if at some time the game became a bore at the expense of cash shops I move on and that company get's no more of my money. but if the last scenario was to occur I would also be willing to admit that maybe the times have moved ahead of me if they can survive both the community and the company without me then I have many other hobbies and lot's of other games to play.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
If the only things you had to pay for on that trip to L70 were riding training and new mounts, that would be true. However, you are also paying for repair fees (which go up as your gear gets better), new skills/spells (ditto), gear from the AH, mats and training for crafting professions, enchants, gems, potions. WIthout getting cash from a higher alt, I have never had enough cash to buy a mount when I hit the level requirement. If I wanted to grind for gold, then I could do it, but that isn't fun - it's work.
Virtually any way you look at it $25 is cheap for the time you would put in to grind the equivalent gold. Only a high level main can make mount money easily for lower alts. I can't even think about grinding out $5,000 gold for fast flying, so my main never got it. Even at L75, it would have taken many hours of farming, which isn't fun.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2