I need to understand this concept of trolling. Because ever Tom, Dick and Harry uses this as weapon against posters.
If I don't get accused of trolling at least twice a week by rabid fanbois, I know I'm letting the side down.
There really are a few game forums on this site which are infested with overzealous fans intent on driving out anyone who has anything at all negative to say about their game. Especially when it's true.
It's not difficult to understand either. While some of those games aren't worth paying for right now, you can see potential there. I think many of those overzealous fans take an aggressive, emotional approach to defending their game. There's nothing rational about it. They just bite and snarl to try to drive folk off.
Let's say you need to express how bad a game is and you come here to put it in an article. Fine, hope you got it out of your system. When you get into to doing more than once, you are going down the troll path imo. Now see if you can grok why that could be trolling.
For real?
You do understand that these are open forums. They are, from the perspective of its members, a valuable consumer resource. They are also potentially a good source of feedback for developers.
By your standards a forum member could say once that they didn't like a game. Fans of the game can then spew forth an endless stream of completely untrue hype about the game, and if you've 'used up' your one negative post then you have to stay silent or you're a troll.
IMO, trolling is when you have nothing to contribute. Like poping into a thread and saying "+1" or "pie" or "kthxbai", or a personal insult.
Sadly, a lot of people think a troll is someone who disagrees with you. Personally, I think calling someone a troll should be against the rules, and you get a warning for it. Its clearly flaming, and in and of itself trolling. Its contributes nothing except making the forums a place people don't want be.
Let's say you need to express how bad a game is and you come here to put it in an article. Fine, hope you got it out of your system. When you get into to doing more than once, you are going down the troll path imo. Now see if you can grok why that could be trolling.
Then the exact same thing should hold true for the opposite end of the spectrum. Or do you like double standards?
IMO, trolling is when you have nothing to contribute. Like poping into a thread and saying "+1" or "pie" or "kthxbai", or a personal insult.
Sadly, a lot of people think a troll is someone who disagrees with you. Personally, I think calling someone a troll should be against the rules, and you get a warning for it. Its clearly flaming, and in and of itself trolling. Its contributes nothing except making the forums a place people don't want be.
Speaking of warnings I just got one for the post that I made in here. And the post was deleted.
OK, no offense to the OP, but I have two things to say:
1. If 20 people respond, you'll get 20 definitions. If 50 people respond, you'll have 50. In other words, you'll be no closer to understanding trolling than you were before.
2. Oh God, not this again...
Whytwulf ? Race of Man ? Rohan ? Lore-Master ? Historian ? Master Supreme Scholar Ovar ¤ Dwarf ¤ Lonely Mountain ¤ Minstrel ¤ Tinker ¤ Master Supreme Jeweller Grumwald ¤ Race of Man ¤ Rohan ¤ Hunter ¤ Explorer ¤ Master Supreme Tailor
I don't think that photo accurately dipicts trolling.
The soldier in question has a very good reason to decieve the sniper.
A troll is a practical joke, the poster tosses out a flame post and watches the fireworks.
What that soldier is doing is no joke.
I did not say, nor would I ever say, that what soldiers do is a joke, especially since so many of my family have served in combat. Your implication that I did is a perfect example of trolling.
I'd say this post is a perfect example of the incorrect/overuse of the term trolling.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Trolling isn't defined as being obnoxious or annoying, it just means you are purposly misrepresenting your own views to get a rise.
The best example of trolling are those Yahoo Answer threads where someone asks a ridiculously absurd question that he obviously knows the answer to, just to get a rise out of people who fall for it and think he's serious. Trolling is almost an obscure form of sarcasm.
I thought Trolling was jumping on a forum of a subject you dislike and causing hate and discontent...just for fun...expressing your opinion is one thing, but you can tell when someone just posts to cause shiet....
trolling is when a person says something he knows other will dislike.
Those who reply to a troll Fails.
Do not argue with a troll, it means that he has won and you lost.
^This
It could be as simple as someone asking a question on the forums that 10,000 players have annoyed the community with before that the majority already know the answer to or can search very easily. Basically veterans playing stupid in some instances lol
I 'll agree with Kyleran. In MMORPG.COM it seems everything the mods don't like is "trolling". It's an easy way to filter out people and posts without offering themselves an explanation either...
The word doesn't even belong to the English dictionary... Coincidence? No. They had to invent a word in order to do this sort of nonsense black sheep naming. I mean... i 'll choose a post around here that has a lot of negative qualities and say that it's "Gkeahing". I 'll make sure everybody sees that post and learn about my new word. That post being so bad wouldn't raise so many questions from the public about my new word and its meaning... Then when everybody is familiar with that post and my word, i 'll use the word to point out other posts that i don't like, without the need to provide an explanation at all cause "Gkeahing"=that post we all had seen and thought it was terrible.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
While there are some justifiable post that are trolling.. Most forums seem to use "trolling" as the catch all excuse to warn or ban an opinion you don't like.. Nothing more.. It is normally used against those that are critical to a game or company.. Let me give you an example..
Fanboy post, "This is the best game ever, and was made by God" << NOT trolling so the police say..
Critical post, "This is the worst game ever, it should be closed" << Trolling and normally gets your hand smacked
Why the double standards? It's obvious that both post will illicit a response from someone not agreeing to it.. You have to love hypocrits when they carry a badge or wield a hammer.. (BOOM BANNED).. It was called trolling, because it stems from fishing.. When you troll, you are trying to bait people as a catch, and to respond.. You are reeling them in.. LOL Trolling didn't come from a critter under the bridge..
So technically ANYTHING you say that entices people to "emotionally" respond is trolling.. Just like the above examples.. The critic will get warned because he's upsetting the fanboy, hence trolling.. But when a fanboy post, aren't they too trolling trying to get a critic or hater to post a response?? Hmmmm
Anyways.. good luck in posting without actually violating the infamous "trolling" rule.. LOL
What I see a lot of , and that so many get away with, is trolling/flaming where instead of saying:
"Bob iz retard u suk," , they say
"The OP's idea reflects a shocking grasp of even basic sentient thought, which if accepted would revert humanity to a level of palaeolithic cretenism."
By pretending to attack the idea while really attacking the poster, and with the simple use of a thesaurus, there are people who troll and flame away with impunity.
If you disagree with an idea, then just say why. It doesn't require insulting the person whose idea it was, or insulting them for why or how they came to have that idea, directly or indirectly.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Originally posted by Amathe What I see a lot of , and that so many get away with, is trolling/flaming where instead of saying:
"Bob iz retard u suk," , they say
"The OP's idea reflects a shocking grasp of even basic sentient thought, which if accepted would revert humanity to a level of palaeolithic cretenism."
Personal attacks aren't trolling.
Trolling is throwing out some juicy bait like, 'women who have abortions are criminals'.
The goal of a troll is to catch a lot of people in the net. Tricking one person is no fun, tricking a hundred people into a huge flame war is the trolls goal.
What I see a lot of , and that so many get away with, is trolling/flaming where instead of saying:
"Bob iz retard u suk," , they say
"The OP's idea reflects a shocking grasp of even basic sentient thought, which if accepted would revert humanity to a level of palaeolithic cretenism."
Personal attacks aren't trolling.
Trolling is throwing out some juicy bait like, 'women who have abortions are criminals'.
The goal of a troll is to catch a lot of people in the net. Tricking one person is no fun, tricking a hundred people into a huge flame war is the trolls goal.
If the attack was on just one person, I would agree with you. But it's often broader than that. It's the implication that anyone on one side of an issue is [something bad and inflammatory]. E.g., _______ [pick a political party] ______________ [now label them all in some unflattering way]. That gets a reaction from not only the targeted poster but everyone who might identfy with the poster. "Bob's idea is for people who [troll troll troll]." It provokes Bob and people who agree with Bob.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
What I see a lot of , and that so many get away with, is trolling/flaming where instead of saying:
"Bob iz retard u suk," , they say
"The OP's idea reflects a shocking grasp of even basic sentient thought, which if accepted would revert humanity to a level of palaeolithic cretenism."
Personal attacks aren't trolling.
Trolling is throwing out some juicy bait like, 'women who have abortions are criminals'.
The goal of a troll is to catch a lot of people in the net. Tricking one person is no fun, tricking a hundred people into a huge flame war is the trolls goal.
Some statements such as the one to which you refer are more hyperbole based on ethic than trolling. One could posit that statement legitimately if they truly felt as such.
Trolling to me is when you post something like "Game X sucks" repeatedly without backing up the statement with reason why you feel it sucks.
The whole point of these forums is to discuss games (specificly or generally) or such related topics. The forums are here for people to give their opinions on issues such as gameplay, trends, etc.
Sadly a lot of people here consider any negative opinion or and opinion contrary to their own to be trolling. Unhappy with a change made to a game and you give your opinion, you might be trolling. As others have said the term 'trolling' has become the catch all term for anyone who thinks differently than someone else. In some ways its the term used to end a debate and try to paint the poster in a negative way because they have a varying opinion on the subject than a few others.
Its kinda like calling someone a Commie or Heretic or Witch back in the day because they have a radical idea or point that made you nervous. By labeling them as such it allows those who dont agree with their opinions a way to win the debate by shifting the topic to the posters motives, rather than the discussion at hand.
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
"Trolling", in an unspoken parameter, is most often an intellectual "in-joke" intentionally used to elicit an impassioned response based on viewers' smug, pretentious sense of self-importance.
A couple example of "good" trollings which will catch you...
"Trolling is a art" (sic) - Most likely the author knows correct usage of indefinate articles and likes the blind swings you exhibit.
"No one knows how to pronounce "hyperbole"" - Yes of course many people do, but have you read the definition of "hyperbole"?
Expressing disdainful opinion is rarely "trolling", but it's labeled as such often in an act to dismiss said claim. Often in this case the supposed "trolling" is merely a particularly poorly thought-out contesting of an issue. If the claim is repeated, it's still not "trolling", but rather repetitious aberrart behavior indicitive of the author's need for attention.
But need for attention is a two-way street. In an effort to constructively resolve an issue, even in the matter of "agreeing to disagree" both sides need to formulate objective debate based on fact. "Red-flag words", argumentum ad-hominem, and outright cruelty would never suffice to these ends, and in fact, it's best to avoid contests wherein these poor tactics are utilized.
If someone said, "Kaelano1, I'm sick of your pseudo-intellectual, wordy, piss-ant views", I certainly wouldn't counter with, "You're a troll", but rather, "I'm sorry you feel that way", because in fact I'm not trolled solely by one's opinion. I can however become subject to a well-thought trolling as those listed above, and sometimes I like it, in an introspective kind of way.
Trolling - A statement that is intentionally designed to incite anger rage and negative recoil, generally an argument that is without logic or function. Often times it is an opinion statement, sometimes it is entirely false information.
Comments
If I don't get accused of trolling at least twice a week by rabid fanbois, I know I'm letting the side down.
There really are a few game forums on this site which are infested with overzealous fans intent on driving out anyone who has anything at all negative to say about their game. Especially when it's true.
It's not difficult to understand either. While some of those games aren't worth paying for right now, you can see potential there. I think many of those overzealous fans take an aggressive, emotional approach to defending their game. There's nothing rational about it. They just bite and snarl to try to drive folk off.
For real?
You do understand that these are open forums. They are, from the perspective of its members, a valuable consumer resource. They are also potentially a good source of feedback for developers.
By your standards a forum member could say once that they didn't like a game. Fans of the game can then spew forth an endless stream of completely untrue hype about the game, and if you've 'used up' your one negative post then you have to stay silent or you're a troll.
Mmmmmm.
IMO, trolling is when you have nothing to contribute. Like poping into a thread and saying "+1" or "pie" or "kthxbai", or a personal insult.
Sadly, a lot of people think a troll is someone who disagrees with you. Personally, I think calling someone a troll should be against the rules, and you get a warning for it. Its clearly flaming, and in and of itself trolling. Its contributes nothing except making the forums a place people don't want be.
Then the exact same thing should hold true for the opposite end of the spectrum. Or do you like double standards?
Speaking of warnings I just got one for the post that I made in here. And the post was deleted.
OK, no offense to the OP, but I have two things to say:
1. If 20 people respond, you'll get 20 definitions. If 50 people respond, you'll have 50. In other words, you'll be no closer to understanding trolling than you were before.
2. Oh God, not this again...
Whytwulf ? Race of Man ? Rohan ? Lore-Master ? Historian ? Master Supreme Scholar
Ovar ¤ Dwarf ¤ Lonely Mountain ¤ Minstrel ¤ Tinker ¤ Master Supreme Jeweller
Grumwald ¤ Race of Man ¤ Rohan ¤ Hunter ¤ Explorer ¤ Master Supreme Tailor
I'd say this post is a perfect example of the incorrect/overuse of the term trolling.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Trolling isn't defined as being obnoxious or annoying, it just means you are purposly misrepresenting your own views to get a rise.
The best example of trolling are those Yahoo Answer threads where someone asks a ridiculously absurd question that he obviously knows the answer to, just to get a rise out of people who fall for it and think he's serious. Trolling is almost an obscure form of sarcasm.
-------------------------
I thought Trolling was jumping on a forum of a subject you dislike and causing hate and discontent...just for fun...expressing your opinion is one thing, but you can tell when someone just posts to cause shiet....
trolling is when a person says something he knows other will dislike.
Those who reply to a troll Fails.
Do not argue with a troll, it means that he has won and you lost.
Please do not hype any gam.. oh wait, nevermind... forgot what forum I was on.
^This
It could be as simple as someone asking a question on the forums that 10,000 players have annoyed the community with before that the majority already know the answer to or can search very easily. Basically veterans playing stupid in some instances lol
So basically, to you, anyone who post something you don't like..is a troll? If that is the case, why read these forums, you know people here disagree.
We all have opinions and many times our opinions do not match and we disagree...so who is the troll?
The actual definition of "troll" is very broad and subjective. http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/What_is_a_troll%3F
Anyone who doesn't like what I like are criminals.
And that is not what I wrote, "trolling is when a person says something he knows other will dislike."
Therefore his reason to post is to Catch some stupid fish.
Please do not hype any gam.. oh wait, nevermind... forgot what forum I was on.
I 'll agree with Kyleran. In MMORPG.COM it seems everything the mods don't like is "trolling". It's an easy way to filter out people and posts without offering themselves an explanation either...
The word doesn't even belong to the English dictionary... Coincidence? No. They had to invent a word in order to do this sort of nonsense black sheep naming. I mean... i 'll choose a post around here that has a lot of negative qualities and say that it's "Gkeahing". I 'll make sure everybody sees that post and learn about my new word. That post being so bad wouldn't raise so many questions from the public about my new word and its meaning... Then when everybody is familiar with that post and my word, i 'll use the word to point out other posts that i don't like, without the need to provide an explanation at all cause "Gkeahing"=that post we all had seen and thought it was terrible.
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
But...what if he likes something that he knows most people don't like...say....SWG...does that make them a troll to post about it?
There is a lot more to it then posting about unpopular subjects / opinions, that isn't trolling.
While there are some justifiable post that are trolling.. Most forums seem to use "trolling" as the catch all excuse to warn or ban an opinion you don't like.. Nothing more.. It is normally used against those that are critical to a game or company.. Let me give you an example..
Fanboy post, "This is the best game ever, and was made by God" << NOT trolling so the police say..
Critical post, "This is the worst game ever, it should be closed" << Trolling and normally gets your hand smacked
Why the double standards? It's obvious that both post will illicit a response from someone not agreeing to it.. You have to love hypocrits when they carry a badge or wield a hammer.. (BOOM BANNED).. It was called trolling, because it stems from fishing.. When you troll, you are trying to bait people as a catch, and to respond.. You are reeling them in.. LOL Trolling didn't come from a critter under the bridge..
So technically ANYTHING you say that entices people to "emotionally" respond is trolling.. Just like the above examples.. The critic will get warned because he's upsetting the fanboy, hence trolling.. But when a fanboy post, aren't they too trolling trying to get a critic or hater to post a response?? Hmmmm
Anyways.. good luck in posting without actually violating the infamous "trolling" rule.. LOL
Trolling is a form of fishing in a slow moving boat.
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What I see a lot of , and that so many get away with, is trolling/flaming where instead of saying:
"Bob iz retard u suk," , they say
"The OP's idea reflects a shocking grasp of even basic sentient thought, which if accepted would revert humanity to a level of palaeolithic cretenism."
By pretending to attack the idea while really attacking the poster, and with the simple use of a thesaurus, there are people who troll and flame away with impunity.
If you disagree with an idea, then just say why. It doesn't require insulting the person whose idea it was, or insulting them for why or how they came to have that idea, directly or indirectly.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Personal attacks aren't trolling.
Trolling is throwing out some juicy bait like, 'women who have abortions are criminals'.
The goal of a troll is to catch a lot of people in the net. Tricking one person is no fun, tricking a hundred people into a huge flame war is the trolls goal.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
If the attack was on just one person, I would agree with you. But it's often broader than that. It's the implication that anyone on one side of an issue is [something bad and inflammatory]. E.g., _______ [pick a political party] ______________ [now label them all in some unflattering way]. That gets a reaction from not only the targeted poster but everyone who might identfy with the poster. "Bob's idea is for people who [troll troll troll]." It provokes Bob and people who agree with Bob.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Some statements such as the one to which you refer are more hyperbole based on ethic than trolling. One could posit that statement legitimately if they truly felt as such.
Trolling to me is when you post something like "Game X sucks" repeatedly without backing up the statement with reason why you feel it sucks.
The whole point of these forums is to discuss games (specificly or generally) or such related topics. The forums are here for people to give their opinions on issues such as gameplay, trends, etc.
Sadly a lot of people here consider any negative opinion or and opinion contrary to their own to be trolling. Unhappy with a change made to a game and you give your opinion, you might be trolling. As others have said the term 'trolling' has become the catch all term for anyone who thinks differently than someone else. In some ways its the term used to end a debate and try to paint the poster in a negative way because they have a varying opinion on the subject than a few others.
Its kinda like calling someone a Commie or Heretic or Witch back in the day because they have a radical idea or point that made you nervous. By labeling them as such it allows those who dont agree with their opinions a way to win the debate by shifting the topic to the posters motives, rather than the discussion at hand.
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
OMG!!! After all the IDIOTIC LAME posts on..
What is hardcore?
What is carebear?
What is casual? etc. etc. etc.
Now we have ' WHAT IS TROLLING?' - another TOTALLY dumbass question!!!
Troll posts are obvious...Stopping trolls is easy...If you've not got it yet then you're just plain STUPID.
How about a meaningful thread like: 'When will WOW be beaten".
/jk
"Trolling", in an unspoken parameter, is most often an intellectual "in-joke" intentionally used to elicit an impassioned response based on viewers' smug, pretentious sense of self-importance.
A couple example of "good" trollings which will catch you...
"Trolling is a art" (sic) - Most likely the author knows correct usage of indefinate articles and likes the blind swings you exhibit.
"No one knows how to pronounce "hyperbole"" - Yes of course many people do, but have you read the definition of "hyperbole"?
Expressing disdainful opinion is rarely "trolling", but it's labeled as such often in an act to dismiss said claim. Often in this case the supposed "trolling" is merely a particularly poorly thought-out contesting of an issue. If the claim is repeated, it's still not "trolling", but rather repetitious aberrart behavior indicitive of the author's need for attention.
But need for attention is a two-way street. In an effort to constructively resolve an issue, even in the matter of "agreeing to disagree" both sides need to formulate objective debate based on fact. "Red-flag words", argumentum ad-hominem, and outright cruelty would never suffice to these ends, and in fact, it's best to avoid contests wherein these poor tactics are utilized.
If someone said, "Kaelano1, I'm sick of your pseudo-intellectual, wordy, piss-ant views", I certainly wouldn't counter with, "You're a troll", but rather, "I'm sorry you feel that way", because in fact I'm not trolled solely by one's opinion. I can however become subject to a well-thought trolling as those listed above, and sometimes I like it, in an introspective kind of way.