...CATA simple ensures WOW will be the top dog until at least 2013/2014. ... Perhaps not with the same people playing, but with the same number no doubt....
Have a nice day.
We are having same reactions for years now, and yet it always turns out to be true. Don't wanna believe? fine. Why not just wait till 2013? lets see if your WOW killer arrives on time.
The difference now is that WOW has already plateaued (in '08), so I don't need to believe anything. The years of growth are over, and we certainly don't need a WOW killer to do the deed anymore. However I think the remarkable thing about WOW's inevitable decline, is just how long it's actually going to take before they close the last server. I'm not even going to try and guess what year that will be.
WOW's time in the limelight is finally coming to an end, deal with it or don't. Either way, anyone currently enjoying the game will most likely still have many years of play time ahead of them. It just won't be with 11.5 million other like-minded people.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Oh yeah ? In fact the CATA expansion is the first expansion that launches with ... the least competition around since the beginning of WOW.
2007: TBC had hyped games around like Vanguard and Lotro right in the lead up to it.
2008 had AoC, Warhammer at their doorstep. Let's not forget other great "WOW killers" like Tbula Rasa and Hellgate (you know "ex people" from Diablo and THE Lord maker of UO himself etc etc etc ...)
You also forget that CATA is not aven adressing you if you would be bored of WOW. It is adressing current, old AND very much NEW players to enter Azeroth. Do you really believe that? really? That Blizzard is trying to target new customers?
I think you forgot to read the last part of my statement (and you omitted - on purpose - the part I spoke about that Wii housewife that will stumble into Azeroth for the first time together with the 14 year old DS kid).
Blizzard marketing will attract these people no doubt and this time with the latest mechanics anno 2010.
They will have an Azeroth 10 X more than the old game ever was for their "maiden trip through Fantasia land". I'm a little baffled.. You really believe there are that many MMO players out there that haven't touched WoW and will come flocking in like geese during mating season.. OK.. if you say so. lol
The rest of the bunch is pretty much peanuts now compared to the elephant and its playing choices.
I think what alot of your fans keep overlooking is many of us are DONE with WoW in it's current form. I have over 20 characters, all classes covered, and 6 toons already at maxed level in T-9's.. I have another 1/2 dozen toons over 50 that aren't death knights.. I will NOT level another toon again thru the same old world.. If Blizzard wants me back I want a 100% relaunch of Azeroth with atleast 2 minimum brand new starting "CLASSES".. this ontop of the 5 level content they already planned on.. And I want my old class distinction back.. The new changes are nothing more then a weak attempt to balance classes by blurring the lines.. I don't care about class balance.. IMO a warrior should be able to kill a priest in seconds anyways.. LOL
In other words.. I want a brand new game, and Cataclysm isn't it .. have a great day
...CATA simple ensures WOW will be the top dog until at least 2013/2014. ... Perhaps not with the same people playing, but with the same number no doubt....
Have a nice day.
We are having same reactions for years now, and yet it always turns out to be true. Don't wanna believe? fine. Why not just wait till 2013? lets see if your WOW killer arrives on time.
The difference now is that WOW has already plateaued (in '08), so I don't need to believe anything. The years of growth are over, and we certainly don't need a WOW killer to do the deed anymore . However I think the remarkable thing about WOW's inevitable decline, is just how long it's actually going to take before they close the last server. I'm not even going to try and guess what year that will be.
WOW's time in the limelight is finally coming to an end, deal with it or don't. Either way, anyone currently enjoying the game will most likely still have many years of play time ahead of them. It just won't be with 11.5 million other like-minded people.
Thats a lot of wishful thinking. But why argue because once again you will be proven wrong. then someone else will take your place and this whole cycle of WOW downfall is inevitable arguments will start all over again. Just to be proven wrong again. So like i said, bookmark this topic and wait till 2013 or 2014. time flies fast you won't have to wait that much.
Thats a lot of wishful thinking. But why argue because once again you will be proven wrong. then someone else will take your place and this whole cycle of WOW downfall is inevitable arguments will start all over again. Just to be proven wrong again. So like i said, bookmark this topic and wait till 2013 or 2014. time flies fast you won't have to wait that much.
It's not wishful thinking, it's reality. As I mentioned, the process began some time ago. I have never opened up my mouth once about WOW declining/dying at any time, until Blizzard made the statement themselves a few months back about the sub situation at the end of '08.
Like I said, it's not me using wishful thinking
P.S. Zor....I mean Camp.....I mean memoir44, I didn't expect you to know who that is, but just so you know.... That's Wanderlei Silva, and he is a living Legend. You earned a Wandy facepalm. Own it!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Thats a lot of wishful thinking. But why argue because once again you will be proven wrong. then someone else will take your place and this whole cycle of WOW downfall is inevitable arguments will start all over again. Just to be proven wrong again. So like i said, bookmark this topic and wait till 2013 or 2014. time flies fast you won't have to wait that much.
It's not wishful thinking, it's reality. As I mentioned, the process began some time ago. I have never opened up my mouth once about WOW declining/dying at any time, until Blizzard made the statement themselves a few months back about the sub situation at the end of '08.
Like I said, it's not me using wishful thinking
P.S. Zor....I mean Camp.....I mean memoir44, I didn't expect you to know who that is, but just so you know.... That's Wanderlei Silva, and he is a living Legend. You earned a Wandy facepalm. Own it!
Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .. now that was damn funny..
...CATA simple ensures WOW will be the top dog until at least 2013/2014. ... Perhaps not with the same people playing, but with the same number no doubt....
Have a nice day.
We are having same reactions for years now, and yet it always turns out to be true. Don't wanna believe? fine. Why not just wait till 2013? lets see if your WOW killer arrives on time.
The difference now is that WOW has already plateaued (in '08), so I don't need to believe anything. The years of growth are over, and we certainly don't need a WOW killer to do the deed anymore . However I think the remarkable thing about WOW's inevitable decline, is just how long it's actually going to take before they close the last server. I'm not even going to try and guess what year that will be.
WOW's time in the limelight is finally coming to an end, deal with it or don't. Either way, anyone currently enjoying the game will most likely still have many years of play time ahead of them. It just won't be with 11.5 million other like-minded people.
Thats a lot of wishful thinking. But why argue because once again you will be proven wrong. then someone else will take your place and this whole cycle of WOW downfall is inevitable arguments will start all over again. Just to be proven wrong again. So like i said, bookmark this topic and wait till 2013 or 2014. time flies fast you won't have to wait that much.
Like I said: the market is not even penetrated with the latest Blizzard techniques yet. CATA is the basic Azeroth within a 2010 setting and a few zillion new mechanics that weren't in the game back in 2004.
Imagine what a new player experience will be in CATA compared with the meager choices of play you had back in 2004/2005.
And ... not one competitor in sight these days. It is like the launch of a new product but with 20 millions being adressed in "new" Azeroth.
I imagine for some this will be "a nightmare". Well, you better be prepared indeed.
You know, you seem awefully familliar to me... Its like I know you from somewhere but can't really place where... I mean the rhetoric in your posts, the blind fist pumping and so forth.... It's like I have had debates with you in the past under a different name...
Meh, must be nothing really....
But yeah, as for what you are attempting to claim here: There are NOT zillions of new mechanics (hell, there really are not ANY new mechanics in WoW as its all been done before...)
New Azeroth isnt really 'new' either. Its just a 'different' Azeroth. The same progression is there and with the ease of said progression not too many people will even really bother with this different Azeroth past 1 run through. Its a new coat of paint on an old chair. Once people make that one run through to see this new coat of paint, everyone will be back in Dal/SW camping the LFD tool.
Old players may come back for a few months to see the changes, but they will soon just go look for something else again. New players will probably just be enough to replace those who are leaving seeing as even Blizzard has stated that WoW has stopped growing.
Edit: And you never answered me about what you meant by "Just an advise: Dont wait it will be invain" You even sent it to me in a PM and I asked 'what?' and you never replied....
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Thats a lot of wishful thinking. But why argue because once again you will be proven wrong. then someone else will take your place and this whole cycle of WOW downfall is inevitable arguments will start all over again. Just to be proven wrong again. So like i said, bookmark this topic and wait till 2013 or 2014. time flies fast you won't have to wait that much.
It's not wishful thinking, it's reality. As I mentioned, the process began some time ago. I have never opened up my mouth once about WOW declining/dying at any time, until Blizzard made the statement themselves a few months back about the sub situation at the end of '08.
Like I said, it's not me using wishful thinking
P.S. Zor....I mean Camp.....I mean memoir44, I didn't expect you to know who that is, but just so you know.... That's Wanderlei Silva, and he is a living Legend. You earned a Wandy facepalm. Own it!
Reality? i will believe it when i will see it. Lots of people are wishing it to happen for a very long time and you all are going to be disappointed yet again. But hey, this forum is always here to blow some steam
Seriously....everyone who thinks some other game is going to "kill WoW".....people....I'm not a WoW fan here, and even I know that's crazy talk.
Think about it....
What game "killed" Ultima Online? Okay...Everquest? What about Dark Age of Camelot? Anarchy ONline? Uhm....City of Heroes? LotRO, EQ2? Any of them? Any OTHER AAA MMO that you can tell me what game "killed" it? NO. All of those games are still running, still have active subscribers, are still being maintained and updated and yet you think, that World of Warcraft, which at it's peak had more than 13 x the subscriber base of any of the games I listed....is going to be "killed" by any other games' release?
Excuse me...
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
WoW is still going to be around for AGES still bringing in nice crisp paychecks for Blizzard. If these other games that had a far smaller subscriber base at their peaks are still around, still making money, still being updated with expansions, patches, updates, and still have a loyal following of subscribers.....what on EARTH makes anyone think that some game....ANY game....no matter how AWESOME....is going to "kill" WoW?
Besides.....why would you people want WoW to die? WoW keeps, at least MOST, of the WoW players in WoW. THAT ALONE is reason enough to wish it ALL THE BEST in the world. Seriously. THINK before you go wishing for things.
Oh yeah ? In fact the CATA expansion is the first expansion that launches with ... the least competition around since the beginning of WOW.
2007: TBC had hyped games around like Vanguard and Lotro right in the lead up to it.
2008 had AoC, Warhammer at their doorstep. Let's not forget other great "WOW killers" like Tbula Rasa and Hellgate (you know "ex people" from Diablo and THE Lord maker of UO himself etc etc etc ...)
You also forget that CATA is not aven adressing you if you would be bored of WOW. It is adressing current, old AND very much NEW players to enter Azeroth. Do you really believe that? really? That Blizzard is trying to target new customers?
I think you forgot to read the last part of my statement (and you omitted - on purpose - the part I spoke about that Wii housewife that will stumble into Azeroth for the first time together with the 14 year old DS kid).
Blizzard marketing will attract these people no doubt and this time with the latest mechanics anno 2010.
They will have an Azeroth 10 X more than the old game ever was for their "maiden trip through Fantasia land". I'm a little baffled.. You really believe there are that many MMO players out there that haven't touched WoW and will come flocking in like geese during mating season.. OK.. if you say so. lol
The rest of the bunch is pretty much peanuts now compared to the elephant and its playing choices.
I think what alot of your fans keep overlooking is many of us are DONE with WoW in it's current form. I have over 20 characters, all classes covered, and 6 toons already at maxed level in T-9's.. I have another 1/2 dozen toons over 50 that aren't death knights.. I will NOT level another toon again thru the same old world.. If Blizzard wants me back I want a 100% relaunch of Azeroth with atleast 2 minimum brand new starting "CLASSES".. this ontop of the 5 level content they already planned on.. And I want my old class distinction back.. The new changes are nothing more then a weak attempt to balance classes by blurring the lines.. I don't care about class balance.. IMO a warrior should be able to kill a priest in seconds anyways.. LOL
In other words.. I want a brand new game, and Cataclysm isn't it .. have a great day
You're no target for CATA, although you will be in alright. But the problem is that you look at your experience.
The market penetration has hardly seen a few % of people playing on line in a P2P game.
Like Morhaime said, 12 million is not even a big number.
I think he's right. WOW and its expansions in the last 3 years were adressing the same audiance. Now you get that audiance and another one to start on top.
CATA is certainly an excellent idea to regroup players (old and very new ones), and I frankly don't see much competition in sight these days.
TBC launches and WOtlK had much more AAA titles thrown at them in their launching years.
CATA is not even pure end game content. It is in the first place WOW redone.
And what new audience is this you speak of?
New players won't be willing to spend what, almost $80 to jump into a slightly revamped version of a game they didn't bother playing to begin with. Sure there may be a few people who take the plunge, but most will just still be doing what they did over the last 5.5 years: Not Playing WoW.
It's the same game with a new coat of paint. Thats all. And new paint isn't reason enough for most people to say 'Oh what the hell, even though I never liked it/had the desire to play it before I'll finally take the plunge!'
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Love it how any discution about wow ends up being about number of subs. Could prolly start a topic about what your favorite zone was in wow and it will still eventually get to sub numbers .
Love it how any discution about wow ends up being about number of subs. Could prolly start a topic about what your favorite zone was in wow and it will still eventually get to sub numbers .
Think about it; If game was sh*t you think millions will play it? there is only so long one can play a game only on basis of fad and popularity. its a good game so it got most subs. Simple isn't it?
But yeah, as for what you are attempting to claim here: There are NOT zillions of new mechanics (hell, there really are not ANY new mechanics in WoW as its all been done before...)
New Azeroth isnt really 'new' either. Its just a 'different' Azeroth. The same progression is there and with the ease of said progression not too many people will even really bother with this different Azeroth past 1 run through. Its a new coat of paint on an old chair. Once people make that one run through to see this new coat of paint, everyone will be back in Dal/SW camping the LFD tool.
Old players may come back for a few months to see the changes, but they will soon just go look for something else again. New players will probably just be enough to replace those who are leaving seeing as even Blizzard has stated that WoW has stopped growing.
Edit: And you never answered me about what you meant by "Just an advise: Dont wait it will be invain" You even sent it to me in a PM and I asked 'what?' and you never replied....
Take the features of the launching WOW back in 2004, wade through the pages of altered mechanics and gaming options and after you studied for the next 2 weeks, please come back.
You make the same mistake as the others (btw I am NOT "zorn" and any other accusation I'll report you with the mods).
You all see the game from your bored 5 year old eyes. There is simply no way you can see the game as a newbie will see CATA.
Unless you think that the world is a very static place with always the same non aging people around, better be in for a surprise.
And like I said: the WOw killers already are as good as dead. This time around Blizzard went back to the basic leveling parts but with the added techniques of today.
I wouldn't wanna bet what the outcome is, but if you guys want to believe it is nothing or regression: think and analyse outside of your very personal experience.
I have read ALL the info on Cata and all the changes that have been talked about already and I see nothing of great substance to support your theory that the game is going to get this sudden, massive influx of new players - specially those players who never bothered with the game before.
No matter how you want to put it, Its the same game with a new coat of paint and those players who never bothered before most likely wont bother now, especially at the price of nearly $100 (Battle chest + Wrath + Cata) to see these new 'features'.
Btw, never called you Zorn. Just said your debating techniques are strangely familiar. Report me if you wish for pointing out that familiarity. But I find it strange you automatically assumed what I was supposedly thinking... guilty conscience?
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Browsing around you can pre-order WoW Cata but it's $40 for half the levels and a rework of a current continent. So my question to you all is do you think it is worth it to shell out the $40?
$40 is nothing to a european.. with the UK being the third largest video games market in the world.. we pay through our nose for most releases, let alone expansion...
if i give it a go, that price certainly won't put me off... it's nothing.. absolutely nothing, people in europe paid that for the damn mount...
$40 is an average blu ray release here...
damn you blizz for making money... it's illegal ! ..... no worse than EA making you buy crap with micro tranasaction maps which are probably already on the disc in some form (knowing EA as i do).
making money.... the madness.
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week
Browsing around you can pre-order WoW Cata but it's $40 for half the levels and a rework of a current continent. So my question to you all is do you think it is worth it to shell out the $40?
Depends on how well they rework it.
Truthfully, I'm really looking forward to a lot of the changes (i.e. simplification of stats). Some people are calling it "casualification" or something stupid like that.... but honestly it just removed a bunch of tedious crap that took a lot away from the game imo.
Plus.... I can't wait to chain-spam instant soul fires. teehee
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW -------- Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD --------- Played and loved: Eve and WoW -------- Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
I meant the topic was is the game worth for you as an individual and it turned into a number of subs war.
No it didn't. It was said that the bored ones will not be interested in buying it. They said it with much lengthier posts themselves (calling in fresh paint to an old painting but forgetting new players never saw the work before).
But the rest (old, current and new ones) will. And don't underestimate the large still unexplored markets.
Assuring WOW would still be top dog till at least 2013-2014 by introducting the smart "regrouping" of CATA.
Smart move.
I'm just wondering.....if you would ever be willing to admit that World of Warcraft has ANY weaknesses at ALL? Seriously....a lot of us around here are starting to wonder if Blizzard actually pays you. Because no matter what anyone points out...and it could be something undeniably true like say, "There are sure a lot of lag spikes in Dalaran," which, by the way....isn't true any MORE, but even when it was...would you have even been willing to admit it?
No game....absolutely NO game (or developer) is perfect. And while I think we're all pretty aware that you love Blizzard and WoW (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that)....it IS really creepy how sometimes you sincerely come across as paid promoter. I've actually seen ACTUAL game developers for games more quick to admit their OWN GAMES shortcomings, than what you seem ever able to admit.
A lot of the ex-WoW players have even said many many GOOD things about WoW in this thread, and in others, and you will find the one negative thing they said and rather than agreeing with the positives, you'll take that one thing and attempt to make it sound good instead. I don't get it.
On topic:
Cataclysm, imo, is going to be WELL WORTH the money....for people that enjoy WoW. I think that's kind of a given. If I asked someone if the next expansion of oh....say EVE....was going to be "worth it," don't you think all EVE players would say, "absolutely yes," and for them....it WOULD be.
If I was still playing WoW...I would be out there with everyone else at the party queue in from of Gamestop on release day, drinking Starbucks and talking about all of our toons, what servers we play on, etc. It was always fun doing that. I just don't think there's any way that someone who enjoys WoW would NOT think the expansion was "worth it," regardless of how much or how little it adds.
But yeah, as for what you are attempting to claim here: There are NOT zillions of new mechanics (hell, there really are not ANY new mechanics in WoW as its all been done before...)
New Azeroth isnt really 'new' either. Its just a 'different' Azeroth. The same progression is there and with the ease of said progression not too many people will even really bother with this different Azeroth past 1 run through. Its a new coat of paint on an old chair. Once people make that one run through to see this new coat of paint, everyone will be back in Dal/SW camping the LFD tool.
Old players may come back for a few months to see the changes, but they will soon just go look for something else again. New players will probably just be enough to replace those who are leaving seeing as even Blizzard has stated that WoW has stopped growing.
Edit: And you never answered me about what you meant by "Just an advise: Dont wait it will be invain" You even sent it to me in a PM and I asked 'what?' and you never replied....
Take the features of the launching WOW back in 2004, wade through the pages of altered mechanics and gaming options and after you studied for the next 2 weeks, please come back.
You make the same mistake as the others (btw I am NOT "zorn" and any other accusation I'll report you with the mods).
You all see the game from your bored 5 year old eyes. There is simply no way you can see the game as a newbie will see CATA.
Unless you think that the world is a very static place with always the same non aging people around, better be in for a surprise.
And like I said: the WOw killers already are as good as dead. This time around Blizzard went back to the basic leveling parts but with the added techniques of today.
I wouldn't wanna bet what the outcome is, but if you guys want to believe it is nothing or regression: think and analyse outside of your very personal experience.
Greetings!
I want to add in my 2 cents here as well. I'll get straight to the point. For people that love WoW, no doubt Cataclysm will bring them more of what they love, it's their world. Whether or not Blizzard is actively trying to attract a new market of players that haven't tapped into or found WoW is debatable. Surely though, most gamers know WoW, you can argue. It's not like a 5 year old game is not known by most gamers, either by console or PC players.
It is a smart move to revamp and do up the current day Azeroth, it's a smart business move. For one, it means keeping players subscribed for longer as they will, no doubt, begin the journey from 1-85 and not just from 80-85. From all the information I have read, Cataclysm is supporting it's hype by the fact that it will completely redo Azeroth. They, I personally feel, are relying on this, as from a business perspective the unknown speaks volumes in terms of hype. The proof of the pudding, however, is what myself and others are suggesting; the glitzy redone paint on Azeroth DOES NOT bring any new mechanics that WoW has not had in game already.
Like I stated before, Blizzard will have a winning formula for those currently awaiting Cataclysm, but more of what you love, can get too stale and Blizzard needs to watch out for the titles that are engineering themselves with mechanics and a deeper, less static playing field as players USED to be loyal but it is 2010, players are looking for a change of direction.
Take these three titles I am currently interested in:
-Final Fantasy 14
-Guild Wars 2
-SW:TOR
-Rift: Planes of Telara
I suggest people to be open and take a look at how these games are really their own special blend of dynamic gameplay experiences and breathing worlds. personally, even with a new Azeroth, I would like to visit these other worlds as I have never experienced them before. Azeroth will be different but the layout of the zones and the general rememberance will still be there. I know the zones inside out and only a few will be completely redone.
One poster suggesting that there is no competion ahead for WoW, I suggest you take seriously the four titles above. I think the biggest competiton, though, for WoW is it's own world. How much more dynamic will it be, there are currently alot of changes to the core game being introduced; see my earlier thread:
They seem to be marketing towards the widest spectrum of gamers as possible, which is Blizzard's way of saying: make the content as accessible as possible to every type of gamer. But don't underestimate the fact that WoW is not a new game, like I said in paragraph 1, who has not at least tried WoW? like what one poster said, why all of a sudden flock over to Cataclysm as a new player...a new player that has never played WoW.
personally, to the poster that is convinced WoW will remain the top dog in year 2013, so be it. I, myself and others are looking beyond the reaches of what Cataclysm is hyping to bring. For those that love WoW and what it is, that's fine. For me, I don't play something because it is the "in" thing or the top dog. I play it because it offers me a sense of immersion into the world and a dynamic sense of responsibility and enjoyment. Cataclysm, unfortunately is not in my eagerly awaiting hands and I don't think it ever will bring back that "epic" feeling I once had with WoW. Here's hoping that one of the four listed games above will bring back that feeling.
Yes, Blizzard would be fools if they didn't take the competition seriously and I don't think they are fools.
I think that they are doing more of the same for the Wow fans while working hard to complete their new game. Wow is 6 years old and changing the mechanics a lot would actually upset most of the current players. It is better to add the new stuff to their upcoming game instead, the Wow fans seems happy with what they have and Blizzard can try to get the players who want something new with their new game instead.
2011 will actually be the first year wow faces several AAA games and those should be taken seriously. Some of them will suck but one or more will most likely be good.
Wow have so far competed with LOTRO, AoC, WAR and Aion. Not that hard competition really since the games all are rather similar to Wow. Games like FF XVI, GW2, TOR and World of darkness online will offer a very different gameplay made by competent devs.
Nothing against LOTRO, AoC, WAR or Aion but I am not sure I would call any of them AAA.
It will be very interesting to see what Blizzard is cooking up. I think it will differ a lot from Wow, if would be foolish to compete with themselves.
Yes, Blizzard would be fools if they didn't take the competition seriously and I don't think they are fools.
I think that they are doing more of the same for the Wow fans while working hard to complete their new game. Wow is 6 years old and changing the mechanics a lot would actually upset most of the current players. It is better to add the new stuff to their upcoming game instead, the Wow fans seems happy with what they have and Blizzard can try to get the players who want something new with their new game instead.
2011 will actually be the first year wow faces several AAA games and those should be taken seriously. Some of them will suck but one or more will most likely be good.
Wow have so far competed with LOTRO, AoC, WAR and Aion. Not that hard competition really since the games all are rather similar to Wow. Games like FF XVI, GW2, TOR and World of darkness online will offer a very different gameplay made by competent devs.
Nothing against LOTRO, AoC, WAR or Aion but I am not sure I would call any of them AAA.
It will be very interesting to see what Blizzard is cooking up. I think it will differ a lot from Wow, if would be foolish to compete with themselves.
In the end, may the best new game win.
Change the names of the games mentioned and you would end up with a post coming from 2006...
The only difference is that the WOW domination established a market sense that didn't even exist in 2006.
Like I said : these are the Blasted Lands in CATA.
And WOW has an installed paying user base of 11.5 million, the others have yet to gain the first player and don't even exist...
Who do you think will recruit the new players ?
First thing here. Memoir44, please DO NOT assume that I am trying to burst your bubble so therefore in return DO NOT assume that my viewpoint is trying to prove why WoW won't be top dog. For me, like I said, I don't care if it is. You seem to be so fixated on the fact that any debate against the fact that WoW will remain top dog is trying to downplay WoW. I am not stupid. Of course it will have the most subscribers against the four titles to be released. lol, they haven't even been released yet. I'm sorry but you remind me, in real life, like a salesman that can sell a piece of bread and sell it off as a 5 star meal.
HOWEVER, read my post carefully from my point of view, not yours. Where did I quote or state that these four titles were out for world MMORPG domination? I didn't. I only said that and I can say now, you are just as much assuming that these four titles won't be a threat to how players in the future of 2010/2011 see their gaming and how new players want more of the same.
Besides the fact that, yes, WoW has already (let's keep it simple) 11.5 million subscribers, I am not here to debate on the fact that WoW won't get subscribers for Cataclysm. You seem to think I fall into the trap of "fanboism" or that I regard these unreleased MMOs as the coming of "stardom." Yet, you should also know as you are pointing labels at me, here's one for you: "A change for the better does happen, but not for everyone." Personally, I want change. I do not see enough of it in Cataclysm. Neither does alot of other people.
Like I said, I am not here to try and say that there will be a WoW killer, I take it you are quite clear on that. I am only saying that change is inevitable and that that developers at Blizzard need to be aware of the changing times in MMOs. WoW is a 5 year old game, this is the reason why they need to be careful. These four titles look promising to me, if for one reason alone: I have not played in any of their lands before.
I certainly hope that gamers can see that times do change, in the gaming front as well, that I firmly believe that one of these four titles will be, for me, more enjoyable than Cataclysm is my own preference.
BTW: That screenshot, besides the new water effect, does not mean much to me. It is static and looks too much like any other water-ish land (Wetlands/Dustwallow Marsh/Grizzly Hills).
BTW: That screenshot, besides the new water effect, does not mean much to me. It is static and looks too much like any other water-ish land (Wetlands/Dustwallow Marsh/Grizzly Hills).
The following is a comparaison from the same Blasted Lands (same spot) in WOW 2004 and CATA after the passing of the Dragon: please scroll sideways.
No need to discuss the same huge differences between play mechanics in 2004 and 2010 (think about the leveling mechanics and competition in PvP or Path of Glory)....
Memoir44,
Yes it looks nice, compared to the current Blasted Lands picture. Now, can u link us a picture of Wetlands near the murlocs and/or Dustwallow Marsh near the horde base please.
I meant the topic was is the game worth for you as an individual and it turned into a number of subs war.
No it didn't. It was said that the bored ones will not be interested in buying it. They said it with much lengthier posts themselves (calling in fresh paint to an old painting but forgetting new players never saw the work before).
But the rest (old, current and new ones) will. And don't underestimate the large still unexplored markets.
Assuring WOW would still be top dog till at least 2013-2014 by introducting the smart "regrouping" of CATA.
Smart move.
I'm just wondering.....if you would ever be willing to admit that World of Warcraft has ANY weaknesses at ALL? Seriously....a lot of us around here are starting to wonder if Blizzard actually pays you. Because no matter what anyone points out...and it could be something undeniably true like say, "There are sure a lot of lag spikes in Dalaran," which, by the way....isn't true any MORE, but even when it was...would you have even been willing to admit it? ut oh Girl.. becareful.. I hate to see you get a warning for jokingly saying someone is a shill.. LOL
No game....absolutely NO game (or developer) is perfect. And while I think we're all pretty aware that you love Blizzard and WoW (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that)....it IS really creepy how sometimes you sincerely come across as paid promoter. I've actually seen ACTUAL game developers for games more quick to admit their OWN GAMES shortcomings, than what you seem ever able to admit.
A lot of the ex-WoW players have even said many many GOOD things about WoW in this thread, and in others, and you will find the one negative thing they said and rather than agreeing with the positives, you'll take that one thing and attempt to make it sound good instead. I don't get it.
On topic:
Cataclysm, imo, is going to be WELL WORTH the money....for people that enjoy WoW. I think that's kind of a given. If I asked someone if the next expansion of oh....say EVE....was going to be "worth it," don't you think all EVE players would say, "absolutely yes," and for them....it WOULD be.
If I was still playing WoW...I would be out there with everyone else at the party queue in from of Gamestop on release day, drinking Starbucks and talking about all of our toons, what servers we play on, etc. It was always fun doing that. I just don't think there's any way that someone who enjoys WoW would NOT think the expansion was "worth it," regardless of how much or how little it adds.
As much as I agree with what you're saying, it also reminds me of the danger of what is out there. Yes, there are those people that are so loyal to a "thing", rather it be a game, company, politics or religion, they become blind to all the flaws, and are borderline unstable. I for example am a Ford fan. I enjoyed my Ford F-150 so much, that when it came time to get a new truck, I stayed with Ford and bought a loaded Sport-Trac.. Sweet ride as you youngins would say.. However, when it came time to buy my wife a new car, it was NOT a Ford. I may be a Ford fan, but I'm not blind and in my opinion none of the Ford cars were "worth the money" compared to Nissan, Honda and Toyota..
When I vote each spring and fall, I do not vote partyline just cuz. To do so is inherantly dangerous.. We have a duty to ourselves and others to question our leaders, and or companies, or other.. How is the human race ever suppose to grow if we continue to allow mediocrity, and stay blind to everything that doesn't suit us.. IMO and those of many experts have shown and discussed that people that follow blindly, or praise without question are borderline unstable.. NO different then cult followers, addicts and the like.
However, I wouldn't make it a blanketed statement that all that enjoy WoW think it's worth it.. I enjoyed Ford, but none of the cars were worth it.. I"m now back to tinkering with EQ again.. Do I think all the expansions are worth it? NO.. In fact if I had to buy each one seperately at the same price as when they first came out, I wouldn't be playing EQ now.. But paying $20 for all the expansion (15 I think) was worth it .. BTW, that $20 cost included the first months subscription too.. Talk about deal..
CATA simple ensures WOW will be the top dog until at least 2013/2014. ... Perhaps not with the same people playing, but with the same number no doubt....
Have a nice day.
Thats a bold statement, WoW has been top dog for a long time but during that time its competition has been less than impressive, there is many more games in production now that look way better than anything thats challenged WoW recently. Do I think any of the new games will be anywhere near as big as WoW? Hell no, I doubt any game ever will be this big ever again if I'm honest, WoW had freak succes, the game surfaced at the perfect time with good marketing, but the new games will probably start stripping down WoW's player numbers in my opinion, even if it stays the top game I very much doubt it will be with the same number.
As for Cata being worth it, thats all down to the person paying for it really, for me personally it would be a waste of money, I wouldn't last more than a week at most in WoW these days, levelling is far too quick and raids are too simplified for my taste, I even found the PvP to be extremely tedious after a while.
Oh yeah ? In fact the CATA expansion is the first expansion that launches with ... the least competition around since the beginning of WOW.
2007: TBC had hyped games around like Vanguard and Lotro right in the lead up to it.
2008 had AoC, Warhammer at their doorstep. Let's not forget other great "WOW killers" like Tbula Rasa and Hellgate (you know "ex people" from Diablo and THE Lord maker of UO himself etc etc etc ...)
You also forget that CATA is not aven adressing you if you would be bored of WOW. It is adressing current, old AND very much NEW players to enter Azeroth.
I think you forgot to read the last part of my statement (and you omitted - on purpose - the part I spoke about that Wii housewife that will stumble into Azeroth for the first time together with the 14 year old DS kid).
Blizzard marketing will attract these people no doubt and this time with the latest mechanics anno 2010.
They will have an Azeroth 10 X more than the old game ever was for their "maiden trip through Fantasia land".
The rest of the bunch is pretty much peanuts now compared to the elephant and its playing choices.
You seem very defensive about nothing to me, you really should read some posts more carefully before unleashing your WoW defense rants because I never once attacked WoW (and by the way I did not omit anything on purpose, I chose to quote the part of your statement I was actually commenting on). You seem to have misunderstood my point completely because of your defensive stance, not once did I claim any 1 game would overpower WoW as the number 1 game, it has every chance of still being the number 1 game by that time if you ask me. My point was that you claim by 2013/14 WoW will have the same number of subs "no doubt", I question that because the list of games due between now and then is huge, almost none of which I think will become the number 1 game, but all of them together I do believe they will strip a huge number of subs from WoW.
Games like FFXIV, C9, TERA, SW:TOR, Vindictus and APB just to name a few off the top of my head, not to mention any other games that could appear between now and then (for example Bethesda are rumoured to be working on either an Elder Scrolls or Fallout MMO).
I meant the topic was is the game worth for you as an individual and it turned into a number of subs war.
No it didn't. It was said that the bored ones will not be interested in buying it. They said it with much lengthier posts themselves (calling in fresh paint to an old painting but forgetting new players never saw the work before).
But the rest (old, current and new ones) will. And don't underestimate the large still unexplored markets.
Assuring WOW would still be top dog till at least 2013-2014 by introducting the smart "regrouping" of CATA.
Smart move.
I'm just wondering.....if you would ever be willing to admit that World of Warcraft has ANY weaknesses at ALL? Seriously....a lot of us around here are starting to wonder if Blizzard actually pays you. Because no matter what anyone points out...and it could be something undeniably true like say, "There are sure a lot of lag spikes in Dalaran," which, by the way....isn't true any MORE, but even when it was...would you have even been willing to admit it? ut oh Girl.. becareful.. I hate to see you get a warning for jokingly saying someone is a shill.. LOL
I really DON'T think he's a shill, to be honest. I just think that sometimes we gamers, can be almost cultish in our love of certain games and developers and I'm not beyond that myself, to be fair. But I sinderely wanted to know that if there WAS a true and undeniable weakness or flaw, if it would be accepted as such. I'm not talking about someones OPINION that there's a weakness or flaw, but rather an actual proven problem. I was just curious is all.
No game....absolutely NO game (or developer) is perfect. And while I think we're all pretty aware that you love Blizzard and WoW (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that)....it IS really creepy how sometimes you sincerely come across as paid promoter. I've actually seen ACTUAL game developers for games more quick to admit their OWN GAMES shortcomings, than what you seem ever able to admit.
A lot of the ex-WoW players have even said many many GOOD things about WoW in this thread, and in others, and you will find the one negative thing they said and rather than agreeing with the positives, you'll take that one thing and attempt to make it sound good instead. I don't get it.
On topic:
Cataclysm, imo, is going to be WELL WORTH the money....for people that enjoy WoW. I think that's kind of a given. If I asked someone if the next expansion of oh....say EVE....was going to be "worth it," don't you think all EVE players would say, "absolutely yes," and for them....it WOULD be.
If I was still playing WoW...I would be out there with everyone else at the party queue in from of Gamestop on release day, drinking Starbucks and talking about all of our toons, what servers we play on, etc. It was always fun doing that. I just don't think there's any way that someone who enjoys WoW would NOT think the expansion was "worth it," regardless of how much or how little it adds.
As much as I agree with what you're saying, it also reminds me of the danger of what is out there. Yes, there are those people that are so loyal to a "thing", rather it be a game, company, politics or religion, they become blind to all the flaws, and are borderline unstable. I for example am a Ford fan. I enjoyed my Ford F-150 so much, that when it came time to get a new truck, I stayed with Ford and bought a loaded Sport-Trac.. Sweet ride as you youngins would say.. However, when it came time to buy my wife a new car, it was NOT a Ford. I may be a Ford fan, but I'm not blind and in my opinion none of the Ford cars were "worth the money" compared to Nissan, Honda and Toyota..
When I vote each spring and fall, I do not vote partyline just cuz. To do so is inherantly dangerous.. We have a duty to ourselves and others to question our leaders, and or companies, or other.. How is the human race ever suppose to grow if we continue to allow mediocrity, and stay blind to everything that doesn't suit us.. IMO and those of many experts have shown and discussed that people that follow blindly, or praise without question are borderline unstable.. NO different then cult followers, addicts and the like.
However, I wouldn't make it a blanketed statement that all that enjoy WoW think it's worth it.. I enjoyed Ford, but none of the cars were worth it.. I"m now back to tinkering with EQ again.. Do I think all the expansions are worth it? NO.. In fact if I had to buy each one seperately at the same price as when they first came out, I wouldn't be playing EQ now.. But paying $20 for all the expansion (15 I think) was worth it .. BTW, that $20 cost included the first months subscription too.. Talk about deal..
Nice post tho in general geek.. keep it up
You're right, of course. It's a gross generalization for me to assume that anyone that is presently playing WoW would think Cataclysm is inherently "worth it" simply because they're present players. My bad on that. Although...I'd probably say that, for the most part, it's true.
Funny that you mention the cost and then say something about SoE's package deals with their expansions. You know....I said the same thing in a thread a long time ago and was basically told, "well...Blizzard doesn't HAVE to do that to get new subs," but....I don't understand why they WOULDN'T to increase their subs even more.
If Cataclysm came with all the past expansions and original game for say, oh...50 bucks or even 60...it would be one helluva deal for someone wanting to start the game. Just like all the EQ2 expansions, most recently Sentinel's Fate, came with ALL the past expansions for like 29.99 or something. For someone STARTING the game....that's one helluva deal, particularly because EQ2 has had like 3x more expansions than WoW has. So....I still think that it would bring in MORE "fresh meat" to do it that way. But....I'm no game developer or financial consultant, so...lol.
Oh and ....the rest of your post here....wow....pretty spot on what I was thinking myself. People can be sort of scary sometimes, can't we?
Comments
The difference now is that WOW has already plateaued (in '08), so I don't need to believe anything. The years of growth are over, and we certainly don't need a WOW killer to do the deed anymore. However I think the remarkable thing about WOW's inevitable decline, is just how long it's actually going to take before they close the last server. I'm not even going to try and guess what year that will be.
WOW's time in the limelight is finally coming to an end, deal with it or don't. Either way, anyone currently enjoying the game will most likely still have many years of play time ahead of them. It just won't be with 11.5 million other like-minded people.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
I think what alot of your fans keep overlooking is many of us are DONE with WoW in it's current form. I have over 20 characters, all classes covered, and 6 toons already at maxed level in T-9's.. I have another 1/2 dozen toons over 50 that aren't death knights.. I will NOT level another toon again thru the same old world.. If Blizzard wants me back I want a 100% relaunch of Azeroth with atleast 2 minimum brand new starting "CLASSES".. this ontop of the 5 level content they already planned on.. And I want my old class distinction back.. The new changes are nothing more then a weak attempt to balance classes by blurring the lines.. I don't care about class balance.. IMO a warrior should be able to kill a priest in seconds anyways.. LOL
In other words.. I want a brand new game, and Cataclysm isn't it
.. have a great day
Thats a lot of wishful thinking. But why argue because once again you will be proven wrong. then someone else will take your place and this whole cycle of WOW downfall is inevitable arguments will start all over again. Just to be proven wrong again. So like i said, bookmark this topic and wait till 2013 or 2014. time flies fast you won't have to wait that much.
It's not wishful thinking, it's reality. As I mentioned, the process began some time ago. I have never opened up my mouth once about WOW declining/dying at any time, until Blizzard made the statement themselves a few months back about the sub situation at the end of '08.
Like I said, it's not me using wishful thinking
P.S. Zor....I mean Camp.....I mean memoir44, I didn't expect you to know who that is, but just so you know.... That's Wanderlei Silva, and he is a living Legend. You earned a Wandy facepalm. Own it!
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Ba ha ha ha ha ha ha ha .. now that was damn funny..
if the tc really want to get in it, pst me , ill give ya a raf and throw in a 2 month subs code.
You know, you seem awefully familliar to me... Its like I know you from somewhere but can't really place where... I mean the rhetoric in your posts, the blind fist pumping and so forth.... It's like I have had debates with you in the past under a different name...
Meh, must be nothing really....
But yeah, as for what you are attempting to claim here: There are NOT zillions of new mechanics (hell, there really are not ANY new mechanics in WoW as its all been done before...)
New Azeroth isnt really 'new' either. Its just a 'different' Azeroth. The same progression is there and with the ease of said progression not too many people will even really bother with this different Azeroth past 1 run through. Its a new coat of paint on an old chair. Once people make that one run through to see this new coat of paint, everyone will be back in Dal/SW camping the LFD tool.
Old players may come back for a few months to see the changes, but they will soon just go look for something else again. New players will probably just be enough to replace those who are leaving seeing as even Blizzard has stated that WoW has stopped growing.
Edit: And you never answered me about what you meant by "Just an advise: Dont wait it will be invain" You even sent it to me in a PM and I asked 'what?' and you never replied....
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Reality? i will believe it when i will see it. Lots of people are wishing it to happen for a very long time and you all are going to be disappointed yet again. But hey, this forum is always here to blow some steam
Seriously....everyone who thinks some other game is going to "kill WoW".....people....I'm not a WoW fan here, and even I know that's crazy talk.
Think about it....
What game "killed" Ultima Online? Okay...Everquest? What about Dark Age of Camelot? Anarchy ONline? Uhm....City of Heroes? LotRO, EQ2? Any of them? Any OTHER AAA MMO that you can tell me what game "killed" it? NO. All of those games are still running, still have active subscribers, are still being maintained and updated and yet you think, that World of Warcraft, which at it's peak had more than 13 x the subscriber base of any of the games I listed....is going to be "killed" by any other games' release?
Excuse me...
BWHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
WoW is still going to be around for AGES still bringing in nice crisp paychecks for Blizzard. If these other games that had a far smaller subscriber base at their peaks are still around, still making money, still being updated with expansions, patches, updates, and still have a loyal following of subscribers.....what on EARTH makes anyone think that some game....ANY game....no matter how AWESOME....is going to "kill" WoW?
Besides.....why would you people want WoW to die? WoW keeps, at least MOST, of the WoW players in WoW. THAT ALONE is reason enough to wish it ALL THE BEST in the world. Seriously. THINK before you go wishing for things.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
And what new audience is this you speak of?
New players won't be willing to spend what, almost $80 to jump into a slightly revamped version of a game they didn't bother playing to begin with. Sure there may be a few people who take the plunge, but most will just still be doing what they did over the last 5.5 years: Not Playing WoW.
It's the same game with a new coat of paint. Thats all. And new paint isn't reason enough for most people to say 'Oh what the hell, even though I never liked it/had the desire to play it before I'll finally take the plunge!'
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Love it how any discution about wow ends up being about number of subs. Could prolly start a topic about what your favorite zone was in wow and it will still eventually get to sub numbers
.
Think about it; If game was sh*t you think millions will play it? there is only so long one can play a game only on basis of fad and popularity. its a good game so it got most subs. Simple isn't it?
I say Eff wow. I'm tired of the grind, and getting my hunter screwed with before and after every expansion.
I meant the topic was is the game worth for you as an individual and it turned into a number of subs war.
I have read ALL the info on Cata and all the changes that have been talked about already and I see nothing of great substance to support your theory that the game is going to get this sudden, massive influx of new players - specially those players who never bothered with the game before.
No matter how you want to put it, Its the same game with a new coat of paint and those players who never bothered before most likely wont bother now, especially at the price of nearly $100 (Battle chest + Wrath + Cata) to see these new 'features'.
Btw, never called you Zorn. Just said your debating techniques are strangely familiar. Report me if you wish for pointing out that familiarity. But I find it strange you automatically assumed what I was supposedly thinking... guilty conscience?
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
$40 is nothing to a european.. with the UK being the third largest video games market in the world.. we pay through our nose for most releases, let alone expansion...
if i give it a go, that price certainly won't put me off... it's nothing.. absolutely nothing, people in europe paid that for the damn mount...
$40 is an average blu ray release here...
damn you blizz for making money... it's illegal ! ..... no worse than EA making you buy crap with micro tranasaction maps which are probably already on the disc in some form (knowing EA as i do).
making money.... the madness.
"nothing actually matters, we're just slightly evolved monkeys clinging to a dying piece of rock hurtling through space waiting for our eventual death." - Frankie Boyle, Mock The Week
Depends on how well they rework it.
Truthfully, I'm really looking forward to a lot of the changes (i.e. simplification of stats). Some people are calling it "casualification" or something stupid like that.... but honestly it just removed a bunch of tedious crap that took a lot away from the game imo.
Plus.... I can't wait to chain-spam instant soul fires. teehee
Playing: *sigh* back to WoW
--------
Waiting for: SW:TOR, APB, WoD
---------
Played and loved: Eve and WoW
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Played and hated: WoW:WotLK, Warhammer, every single F2P
I'm just wondering.....if you would ever be willing to admit that World of Warcraft has ANY weaknesses at ALL? Seriously....a lot of us around here are starting to wonder if Blizzard actually pays you. Because no matter what anyone points out...and it could be something undeniably true like say, "There are sure a lot of lag spikes in Dalaran," which, by the way....isn't true any MORE, but even when it was...would you have even been willing to admit it?
No game....absolutely NO game (or developer) is perfect. And while I think we're all pretty aware that you love Blizzard and WoW (and there's absolutely nothing wrong with that)....it IS really creepy how sometimes you sincerely come across as paid promoter. I've actually seen ACTUAL game developers for games more quick to admit their OWN GAMES shortcomings, than what you seem ever able to admit.
A lot of the ex-WoW players have even said many many GOOD things about WoW in this thread, and in others, and you will find the one negative thing they said and rather than agreeing with the positives, you'll take that one thing and attempt to make it sound good instead. I don't get it.
On topic:
Cataclysm, imo, is going to be WELL WORTH the money....for people that enjoy WoW. I think that's kind of a given. If I asked someone if the next expansion of oh....say EVE....was going to be "worth it," don't you think all EVE players would say, "absolutely yes," and for them....it WOULD be.
If I was still playing WoW...I would be out there with everyone else at the party queue in from of Gamestop on release day, drinking Starbucks and talking about all of our toons, what servers we play on, etc. It was always fun doing that. I just don't think there's any way that someone who enjoys WoW would NOT think the expansion was "worth it," regardless of how much or how little it adds.
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
Greetings!
I want to add in my 2 cents here as well. I'll get straight to the point. For people that love WoW, no doubt Cataclysm will bring them more of what they love, it's their world. Whether or not Blizzard is actively trying to attract a new market of players that haven't tapped into or found WoW is debatable. Surely though, most gamers know WoW, you can argue. It's not like a 5 year old game is not known by most gamers, either by console or PC players.
It is a smart move to revamp and do up the current day Azeroth, it's a smart business move. For one, it means keeping players subscribed for longer as they will, no doubt, begin the journey from 1-85 and not just from 80-85. From all the information I have read, Cataclysm is supporting it's hype by the fact that it will completely redo Azeroth. They, I personally feel, are relying on this, as from a business perspective the unknown speaks volumes in terms of hype. The proof of the pudding, however, is what myself and others are suggesting; the glitzy redone paint on Azeroth DOES NOT bring any new mechanics that WoW has not had in game already.
Like I stated before, Blizzard will have a winning formula for those currently awaiting Cataclysm, but more of what you love, can get too stale and Blizzard needs to watch out for the titles that are engineering themselves with mechanics and a deeper, less static playing field as players USED to be loyal but it is 2010, players are looking for a change of direction.
Take these three titles I am currently interested in:
-Final Fantasy 14
-Guild Wars 2
-SW:TOR
-Rift: Planes of Telara
I suggest people to be open and take a look at how these games are really their own special blend of dynamic gameplay experiences and breathing worlds. personally, even with a new Azeroth, I would like to visit these other worlds as I have never experienced them before. Azeroth will be different but the layout of the zones and the general rememberance will still be there. I know the zones inside out and only a few will be completely redone.
One poster suggesting that there is no competion ahead for WoW, I suggest you take seriously the four titles above. I think the biggest competiton, though, for WoW is it's own world. How much more dynamic will it be, there are currently alot of changes to the core game being introduced; see my earlier thread:
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/276748/Newsflash-The-development-of-WoW-endgame-PVE.html
They seem to be marketing towards the widest spectrum of gamers as possible, which is Blizzard's way of saying: make the content as accessible as possible to every type of gamer. But don't underestimate the fact that WoW is not a new game, like I said in paragraph 1, who has not at least tried WoW? like what one poster said, why all of a sudden flock over to Cataclysm as a new player...a new player that has never played WoW.
personally, to the poster that is convinced WoW will remain the top dog in year 2013, so be it. I, myself and others are looking beyond the reaches of what Cataclysm is hyping to bring. For those that love WoW and what it is, that's fine. For me, I don't play something because it is the "in" thing or the top dog. I play it because it offers me a sense of immersion into the world and a dynamic sense of responsibility and enjoyment. Cataclysm, unfortunately is not in my eagerly awaiting hands and I don't think it ever will bring back that "epic" feeling I once had with WoW. Here's hoping that one of the four listed games above will bring back that feeling.
Good post Sayuri.
Yes, Blizzard would be fools if they didn't take the competition seriously and I don't think they are fools.
I think that they are doing more of the same for the Wow fans while working hard to complete their new game. Wow is 6 years old and changing the mechanics a lot would actually upset most of the current players. It is better to add the new stuff to their upcoming game instead, the Wow fans seems happy with what they have and Blizzard can try to get the players who want something new with their new game instead.
2011 will actually be the first year wow faces several AAA games and those should be taken seriously. Some of them will suck but one or more will most likely be good.
Wow have so far competed with LOTRO, AoC, WAR and Aion. Not that hard competition really since the games all are rather similar to Wow. Games like FF XVI, GW2, TOR and World of darkness online will offer a very different gameplay made by competent devs.
Nothing against LOTRO, AoC, WAR or Aion but I am not sure I would call any of them AAA.
It will be very interesting to see what Blizzard is cooking up. I think it will differ a lot from Wow, if would be foolish to compete with themselves.
In the end, may the best new game win.
First thing here. Memoir44, please DO NOT assume that I am trying to burst your bubble so therefore in return DO NOT assume that my viewpoint is trying to prove why WoW won't be top dog. For me, like I said, I don't care if it is. You seem to be so fixated on the fact that any debate against the fact that WoW will remain top dog is trying to downplay WoW. I am not stupid. Of course it will have the most subscribers against the four titles to be released. lol, they haven't even been released yet. I'm sorry but you remind me, in real life, like a salesman that can sell a piece of bread and sell it off as a 5 star meal.
HOWEVER, read my post carefully from my point of view, not yours. Where did I quote or state that these four titles were out for world MMORPG domination? I didn't. I only said that and I can say now, you are just as much assuming that these four titles won't be a threat to how players in the future of 2010/2011 see their gaming and how new players want more of the same.
Besides the fact that, yes, WoW has already (let's keep it simple) 11.5 million subscribers, I am not here to debate on the fact that WoW won't get subscribers for Cataclysm. You seem to think I fall into the trap of "fanboism" or that I regard these unreleased MMOs as the coming of "stardom." Yet, you should also know as you are pointing labels at me, here's one for you: "A change for the better does happen, but not for everyone." Personally, I want change. I do not see enough of it in Cataclysm. Neither does alot of other people.
Like I said, I am not here to try and say that there will be a WoW killer, I take it you are quite clear on that. I am only saying that change is inevitable and that that developers at Blizzard need to be aware of the changing times in MMOs. WoW is a 5 year old game, this is the reason why they need to be careful. These four titles look promising to me, if for one reason alone: I have not played in any of their lands before.
I certainly hope that gamers can see that times do change, in the gaming front as well, that I firmly believe that one of these four titles will be, for me, more enjoyable than Cataclysm is my own preference.
BTW: That screenshot, besides the new water effect, does not mean much to me. It is static and looks too much like any other water-ish land (Wetlands/Dustwallow Marsh/Grizzly Hills).
Memoir44,
Yes it looks nice, compared to the current Blasted Lands picture. Now, can u link us a picture of Wetlands near the murlocs and/or Dustwallow Marsh near the horde base please.
As much as I agree with what you're saying, it also reminds me of the danger of what is out there. Yes, there are those people that are so loyal to a "thing", rather it be a game, company, politics or religion, they become blind to all the flaws, and are borderline unstable. I for example am a Ford fan. I enjoyed my Ford F-150 so much, that when it came time to get a new truck, I stayed with Ford and bought a loaded Sport-Trac.. Sweet ride as you youngins would say.. However, when it came time to buy my wife a new car, it was NOT a Ford. I may be a Ford fan, but I'm not blind and in my opinion none of the Ford cars were "worth the money" compared to Nissan, Honda and Toyota..
When I vote each spring and fall, I do not vote partyline just cuz. To do so is inherantly dangerous.. We have a duty to ourselves and others to question our leaders, and or companies, or other.. How is the human race ever suppose to grow if we continue to allow mediocrity, and stay blind to everything that doesn't suit us.. IMO and those of many experts have shown and discussed that people that follow blindly, or praise without question are borderline unstable.. NO different then cult followers, addicts and the like.
However, I wouldn't make it a blanketed statement that all that enjoy WoW think it's worth it.. I enjoyed Ford, but none of the cars were worth it.. I"m now back to tinkering with EQ again.. Do I think all the expansions are worth it? NO.. In fact if I had to buy each one seperately at the same price as when they first came out, I wouldn't be playing EQ now.. But paying $20 for all the expansion (15 I think) was worth it
.. BTW, that $20 cost included the first months subscription too.. Talk about deal.. 
Nice post tho in general geek.. keep it up
You seem very defensive about nothing to me, you really should read some posts more carefully before unleashing your WoW defense rants because I never once attacked WoW (and by the way I did not omit anything on purpose, I chose to quote the part of your statement I was actually commenting on). You seem to have misunderstood my point completely because of your defensive stance, not once did I claim any 1 game would overpower WoW as the number 1 game, it has every chance of still being the number 1 game by that time if you ask me. My point was that you claim by 2013/14 WoW will have the same number of subs "no doubt", I question that because the list of games due between now and then is huge, almost none of which I think will become the number 1 game, but all of them together I do believe they will strip a huge number of subs from WoW.
Games like FFXIV, C9, TERA, SW:TOR, Vindictus and APB just to name a few off the top of my head, not to mention any other games that could appear between now and then (for example Bethesda are rumoured to be working on either an Elder Scrolls or Fallout MMO).
You're right, of course. It's a gross generalization for me to assume that anyone that is presently playing WoW would think Cataclysm is inherently "worth it" simply because they're present players. My bad on that. Although...I'd probably say that, for the most part, it's true.
Funny that you mention the cost and then say something about SoE's package deals with their expansions. You know....I said the same thing in a thread a long time ago and was basically told, "well...Blizzard doesn't HAVE to do that to get new subs," but....I don't understand why they WOULDN'T to increase their subs even more.
If Cataclysm came with all the past expansions and original game for say, oh...50 bucks or even 60...it would be one helluva deal for someone wanting to start the game. Just like all the EQ2 expansions, most recently Sentinel's Fate, came with ALL the past expansions for like 29.99 or something. For someone STARTING the game....that's one helluva deal, particularly because EQ2 has had like 3x more expansions than WoW has. So....I still think that it would bring in MORE "fresh meat" to do it that way. But....I'm no game developer or financial consultant, so...lol.
Oh and ....the rest of your post here....wow....pretty spot on what I was thinking myself. People can be sort of scary sometimes, can't we?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club