WoW has pretty good base for competitive PvP, not great, but not any worse than in average FPS. The arena may require some getting used to, but with a team you enjoy playing with, it can be in fact one of the best PvP experiences, I guess. Battlegrounds are alright, but teamwork lacks, it's usually just mindless bloodsplatter. World PvP is a lot of fun and contrary to what most think, I believe it's still somewhat alive, but mostly in RP-PVP servers. I used to play on Defias Brotherhood EU (RP-PVP) and there were a lot of world PvP and events, such as oldskool wars between horde and alliance. One of the reasons I only played on RP servers.
E: BUT... I'm fairly sure Blizzard is allowing you to fly in old world in Cata, so I guess that'll be the end of fun.
Is it worth playing? I haven't played it in about a year. I hate ARENA btw.
If not what MMORPG should I play for PvP?
WoW is a PvE game. Any PvP is has is tacked on as an afterthought. It is not worth playing for the PvP as there are dozens of games that does it better.
This is NOT true. WoW was always in mind with PvP or why do you think that there were contested areas from the start ? Blizzard just introduced instanced PvP aka BGs after open PvP / raiding cities to kill the leaders turned out to be a lagfest and crashing servers all the time. I was there since closed Beta and there always was PvP, ALWAYS ... its not an afterthought ... BGs were an afterthought but not PvP.
Is it worth playing? I haven't played it in about a year. I hate ARENA btw.
If not what MMORPG should I play for PvP?
WoW is a PvE game. Any PvP is has is tacked on as an afterthought. It is not worth playing for the PvP as there are dozens of games that does it better.
This is NOT true. WoW was always in mind with PvP or why do you think that there were contested areas from the start ? Blizzard just introduced instanced PvP aka BGs after open PvP / raiding cities to kill the leaders turned out to be a lagfest and crashing servers all the time. I was there since closed Beta and there always was PvP, ALWAYS ... its not an afterthought ... BGs were an afterthought but not PvP.
Battle grounds were planned for launch but never made it so they were patched in 6 months later. If any of you don't believe that then why is there an entrance to AV in southshore? Why is there Horde and alliance flags on the opposite side of a mouintain in Azhara - an unreleased battleground know as the crater. - both of these were in the game at launch.
PvP was not an after thought - some of my best PvP moments were in the first few months of WoW with battles between xroads and ashenvale - for tacked on PVP is was damn good.
Is it worth playing? I haven't played it in about a year. I hate ARENA btw.
If not what MMORPG should I play for PvP?
WoW is a PvE game. Any PvP is has is tacked on as an afterthought. It is not worth playing for the PvP as there are dozens of games that does it better.
This is NOT true. WoW was always in mind with PvP or why do you think that there were contested areas from the start ? Blizzard just introduced instanced PvP aka BGs after open PvP / raiding cities to kill the leaders turned out to be a lagfest and crashing servers all the time. I was there since closed Beta and there always was PvP, ALWAYS ... its not an afterthought ... BGs were an afterthought but not PvP.
True, PvP was always a big part of the advertised game and was there since beta, the problem was they knew from beta that the large scale world PvP battles that they promised it offered often crashed the servers the minute everybody started casting, by level 20 or so of retail on my Alliance characters we had crashed our server about a dozen times just by starting fights around Crossroads and Undercity, thats why I think BG's were needed, which is a shame because large scale world PvP was way more fun than BG ever was for me personally.
If u dont like arena then no. I mean bg's are fun but after a period u realise there is no goal to achieve ( no ranks / titles to win since vanilla wow,no bg ladder etc). As for world pvp i enjoyed it at vanilla but then again i was playing in a rp-pvp server and things were different at that time. Now everything is diferent ,evrything works via tools ,no world pvp (wintergrasp is queqed).
If u dont like arena then no. I mean bg's are fun but after a period u realise there is no goal to achieve ( no ranks / titles to win since vanilla wow,no bg ladder etc). As for world pvp i enjoyed it at vanilla but then again i was playing in a rp-pvp server and things were different at that time. Now everything is diferent ,evrything works via tools ,no world pvp (wintergrasp is queqed).
How many inaccuracies in that post ...
Current BG titles include Justicar or Conqueror. Also by winning the daily BG, you earn 25 Arena points these days. Since this patch 3.3 a LOT of fighting for that daily awards btw.
Next CATA will introduce a competitve ranking PvP competition (even with Guild PvP play added) in those Battlegrounds. Inclusive the return of older PvP titles.
Other PvP titles these days include BattleMaster and "Of the Alliance and Horde titles" as well as dozens of achievements (and a few PvP mounts).
Wintergrasp is NOT instanced, that is a BIG fat lie. It is on realm and the awards of owning LW gives small RvR benifits and it is a zone within Northrend. The only difference is that there is max cap of 240 people that can battle over the SIege battle and for this they are put into Raids (very conveniant and a nice balancing tool too) you have to apply for.
So next time get your facts together and inform you about CATA too.
I'm curious, do you really love WoW THAT much or do you actually work for Blizz? I only ask because you almost seem to take any criticism of WoW personally from the posts I have seen from you, you remind me of some guy that used to do the same not to long, Zorndorf I think his name was...
If u dont like arena then no. I mean bg's are fun but after a period u realise there is no goal to achieve ( no ranks / titles to win since vanilla wow,no bg ladder etc). As for world pvp i enjoyed it at vanilla but then again i was playing in a rp-pvp server and things were different at that time. Now everything is diferent ,evrything works via tools ,no world pvp (wintergrasp is queqed).
How many inaccuracies in that post ... you mean this one.. lol
Current BG titles include Justicar or Conqueror. You are camparing an achievement title to ranks.. apples to oranges.. Taz said RANKS.. you know.. like private, sgt, capt general etc.. get the drinft? Also by winning the daily BG, you earn 25 Arena points these days. Since this patch 3.3 a LOT of fighting for that daily awards btw.
Next CATA will introduce a competitve ranking PvP competition (even with Guild PvP play added) in those Battlegrounds. Inclusive the return of older PvP titles. again off toipic
Other PvP titles these days include BattleMaster and "Of the Alliance and Horde titles" as well as dozens of achievements (and a few PvP mounts).
Wintergrasp is NOT instanced, that is a BIG fat lie.NO LIE.. he said you have to queue for WG, which is FACT.. if you don't queue for WG you are kicked from raid.. PLAIN and SIMPLE.. It is on realm and the awards of owning LW gives small RvR benifits and it is a zone within Northrend. It gives next to nothing in benefits in my opinion for those that are 80th level .. and WG is a timed event.. Taz was talking OPEN world PvP.. maybe that part confuses you The only difference is that there is max cap of 240 people that can battle over the SIege battle and for this they are put into Raids (very conveniant and a nice balancing tool too) you have to apply for.
So next time get your facts together and inform you about CATA too. His facts were not off.. I can only assume you responded like this to start a conflict.. Implying that he's a liar requires me to report you
I play WoW and have done so for several years, but WoW PvP is, and always has been, the carebear's wet dream of how PvP should be - no risk, no damage to gear or equipment, no death penalty, no looting if you win. It has no point whatsoever. I don't even class people who 'pvp' in WoW as actual PvP'ers.
So far, only Eve Online provides risk, destruction of a ship and equipment that might cost hundreds of millions and complete looting of whatever remains of the defeated player's ship.
If I could find a fantasy mmo that did the same, I might be inclined to try it.
So typical, so much nonsense ...: WOW rated PvP (now in arena and coming in the BG's in CATA) is harder than ANY PvP found in an MMO, because it is based on a rated ladder system, just like the chess competition with its elo rating is.
If you find this "worthless" than any human ranked competition is "worhtless" like football, basket, any sport.
Besides there is nothing more frustrating than losing your ranking and stripped from your titles just because you lost a few PvP matches. That far surpasses the "loot" in a gamish world.
That's also the reason WOW is the only mmorpg represented on ESPN, the electronic sports channels.
You have professional sponsored PvP teams in WOW and the out of the game PvP competition sponsors up to 200.000 dollar tournaments.
I guess after the famous Arena matches, we will soon see the rated BG matches feautured on ESPN after CATA strikes.
--- > Of course you can play "non rated" PvP in WOW, but the rated PvP is simply the most challeging competitive form as ALL ranked sports are.
I don't see that adding a "ladder" to a PvP system so risk-free and rewardless somehow makes it better. Carebear PvP is Carebear PvP. I want to loot corpses, not feature in a dinky little ladder system with other Carebears.
PVP in WoW, tbh, its rubbish, but to see why its so bad you really need to play a game that handles it well, if your only experience of pvp is WoW then your unlikely to see half the problems with it.. but WoW Pve is pretty well done even so, if the game was just about PvP i would have stopped playing it a long time ago.
Even Blizzard admit they screwed up in the PVP department of the game. They said they felt that they forced players to be in arena to be competitive in any sort of PVP and BGs were just an afterthought to get people the honor required for accesories.
With that being said with cata they tried to make BG team system, arena system and world PVP system is place so you can pick and choose what you prefer and get gear throug hthis way which in my opinion is the best move they made. My favorite system was the old Vanilla WoW system of ranks in horde and Alliance and actually working hard towards Grand Marshal and High Warlord. When you saw someone with this title you had respect for them for the amount of time and effort that went in to what they achieved. Nowadays you see a gladiator you think wow RMP group grats for having a over powered class in a over powered make up.
WoW is a PvE game, for 1 reason, the main PvE in WoW is secluded from the main form of PvP...they are each on their own. People who really like PvP like it to be integrated and included in other aspects of the game...such as the case with Lineage 2, EVE, Guild Wars, etc...those are PvP based games.
Instanced PvP is terrible and calling it "skillfull" is invalid, that's like saying Tic Tac Toe is skillful because you have to beat the other person, and it's a shame because most people don't know what real PvP is, because they just view open world as taking the system from WoW and removing arena from it.
I've said many times, PvErs are people who seclude themselves from an aspect of the game, PvPers are simply MMO players, there are some games where when you want to PvE, you're going to have to force someone out of your questing spot...when a raid boss spawns several raid groups want to kill the raid, so they have to kill each other first to get to the raid...that's what PvP is.
It's important to know one thing whenever you ask people about PvP... everybody has a different taste and preference when it comes to PvP. Gamers are very very picky in their "flavor" of PvP that they prefer. So I go back to my original post, WoW is worth playing for PvP if you have fun with it. So it's really up to you to simply go in and try it out to see if you like it.
Judging by responses you can tell there are fanboys that will defend WoW regardless of other people's opinions, as there are people who haven't played WoW in a looong time because of their inaccurate information, to people who prefer a space theme PvP in Eve, to people who think anybody that doesn't like FFA kos+loot are O.o's, and of course there are those die hard RvR siege fans that will love Mythic no matter how much they've screwed up Warhammer Online.
There's simply way too many ways a game can provide PvP fun to players, and people over the past 10 years have shown they like many different styles of PvP. Personally for me, do I think WoW's PvP is the best I've played? No, I think best PvP In MMO's was in AC1, Darktide server. It was a real blast. But to put this in perspective, Turbine openly admitted that PvP in Asheron's Call was an accident. That they never really planned on providing PvP but it just sort of...happened. Players took charge, with fps style gameplay and FFA ruleset, players made the rules and made it into a very fun FFA PvP game. So can we stop once and for all with these "PvP is an afterthought" comments? PvP is an afterthought for MOST MMO's.
Right now I play WoW and enjoy it due to the variety of things it offers. Some nights I feel like doing arena, and yes it can be fun and competitive. If you aren't good you will end some nights with tail tucked between your legs. Some fights my friends and I knew we were clearly outskilled. So don't say arena isn't about skill, and the gear excuse can only go so far seeing that resilience gear is so easy to get these days. Other nights I feel like doing BG's for fun, I have several alts in the lower brackets that I jump on to do BG's with some nights for non-top end gear PvP. While mining/herb gathering, and leveling alts, I've bumped into lots of open world PvP. They often just start out of nowhere and often can escalate into more and more people getting involved. PvP is out there for you if you just look for it and stop hugging Dalaran and do nothing but queue for instance dungeon finders.
WoW is a PvE game, for 1 reason, the main PvE in WoW is secluded from the main form of PvP...they are each on their own. People who really like PvP like it to be integrated and included in other aspects of the game...such as the case with Lineage 2, EVE, Guild Wars, etc...those are PvP based games.
Oh, lordy it's the "real PvPers"... Obviously anyone who really like PvP and don't give a hoot about the other parts of the game will be defined out as a no true scotsman.
Instanced PvP is terrible and calling it "skillfull" is invalid, that's like saying Tic Tac Toe is skillful because you have to beat the other person, and it's a shame because most people don't know what real PvP is, because they just view open world as taking the system from WoW and removing arena from it.
This claim is so stupid it's hard to fathom. Starcaft is "instanced", Quake dm's are "instanced", chess is "instanced". What more is that the claim is void of a proper argument as to why this would be the case.
I've said many times, PvErs are people who seclude themselves from an aspect of the game, PvPers are simply MMO players, there are some games where when you want to PvE, you're going to have to force someone out of your questing spot...when a raid boss spawns several raid groups want to kill the raid, so they have to kill each other first to get to the raid...that's what PvP is.
So by your logic Counter Strike players are PvPers? Why go through the effort of leveling up a character and getting all kinds of this gear when you're doing something you can get in Starcraft or a shooter without all that effort.
WoW is a PvE game, for 1 reason, the main PvE in WoW is secluded from the main form of PvP...they are each on their own. People who really like PvP like it to be integrated and included in other aspects of the game...such as the case with Lineage 2, EVE, Guild Wars, etc...those are PvP based games.
By your logic, DAOC is not a PvP game because you can level in safety inside the city walls, and only go out into the frontiers to PvP when you feel like it. Are you honestly going to call DAOC, one of the best RvR games ever made, a PvE game and not a PvP game?
Also speaking of WoW, majority of the zones you level in are contested, giving you a chance to fight over something. Isn't that your definition of PvP based games?
Seriously though, there are many different ways to provide PvP in MMO's. People like different styles of PvP so there's nothing wrong with companies offering different PvP choices. But just because you dislike how some of them are doing it, doesn't mean they aren't PvP games.
So by your logic Counter Strike players are PvPers? Why go through the effort of leveling up a character and getting all kinds of this gear when you're doing something you can get in Starcraft or a shooter without all that effort.
Player vs Player, it's a pretty simple concept isn't it?
I play because it's fun. That simple really, if I had found CS to be more fun I'd be playing that instead.
WoW is a PvE game, for 1 reason, the main PvE in WoW is secluded from the main form of PvP...they are each on their own. People who really like PvP like it to be integrated and included in other aspects of the game...such as the case with Lineage 2, EVE, Guild Wars, etc...those are PvP based games.
By your logic, DAOC is not a PvP game because you can level in safety inside the city walls, and only go out into the frontiers to PvP when you feel like it. Are you honestly going to call DAOC, one of the best RvR games ever made, a PvE game and not a PvP game?
Also speaking of WoW, majority of the zones you level in are contested, giving you a chance to fight over something. Isn't that your definition of PvP based games?
Seriously though, there are many different ways to provide PvP in MMO's. People like different styles of PvP so there's nothing wrong with companies offering different PvP choices. But just because you dislike how some of them are doing it, doesn't mean they aren't PvP games.
What in WoW do you actually fight over that makes a difference? WoW's OWPvP is nothing but random ganks/harassment. And DAoC doesn't have it's end game aspects completely secluded from each other.
WoW is a PvE game, for 1 reason, the main PvE in WoW is secluded from the main form of PvP...they are each on their own. People who really like PvP like it to be integrated and included in other aspects of the game...such as the case with Lineage 2, EVE, Guild Wars, etc...those are PvP based games.
Fair enough, you like to play that way, others like to play PVP a different way. Neither way is the "true way".
Instanced PvP is terrible and calling it "skillfull" is invalid, that's like saying Tic Tac Toe is skillful because you have to beat the other person, and it's a shame because most people don't know what real PvP is, because they just view open world as taking the system from WoW and removing arena from it.
You just said Guild Wars was a true PVP game, but now you say Instanced PVP is terrible? Guild Wars is all instanced, all the pvp is, all the pve is. GW2 will change this of course.. but to me it looks like you don't know what you're talking about.
I've said many times, PvErs are people who seclude themselves from an aspect of the game, PvPers are simply MMO players, there are some games where when you want to PvE, you're going to have to force someone out of your questing spot...when a raid boss spawns several raid groups want to kill the raid, so they have to kill each other first to get to the raid...that's what PvP is.
Ya'know I heard all about this from the Everquest nostalgia posts and to me it sounds really boring, with just grinding and camping. To each his own I guess, but trying to say that WoW's PVP isn't "real PVP" is stupid. Also isn't that what a PVP server is for?
Is it worth playing? I haven't played it in about a year. I hate ARENA btw.
I play WoW and have done so for several years, but WoW PvP is, and always has been, the carebear's wet dream of how PvP should be - no risk, no damage to gear or equipment, no death penalty, no looting if you win. It has no point whatsoever. I don't even class people who 'pvp' in WoW as actual PvP'ers.
So far, only Eve Online provides risk, destruction of a ship and equipment that might cost hundreds of millions and complete looting of whatever remains of the defeated player's ship.
If I could find a fantasy mmo that did the same, I might be inclined to try it.
Because losing and gaining rating isn't a risk/reward. Also, I love auto attacking from standstill in a spaceship, even with the satisfaction of knowing I just griefed the fuck out of some kids it only goes so far.
Arena is a competetive venue for pvp. What I "get out of it" is the satisfaction of outplaying mirror comps or countercomps, and what the other team loses, along with 14x the rating of a win, is knowing they've been outplayed. I don't want their gold or gear, or for ther character to permanently die. That's fucking stupid, especially for the type of pvp arena is. Go auto your launchers or rail guns, bet you're really good at it.
PvP simply sucked. You can be good and it doesnt matter as at the end it works after paper / rock principle and which was pain for me. If you dont got the Overpowered class you wont be able to do a lot in Arena. There is always a loser class (isnt usefull for arena) and a dominating class ( you can be average and you will still pawn). That was my main problem with the arena and after i realised i can be damn good and i still wont be able to get in top pvp arena, as my class doesnt allow me it. Since then i cant touch any theme park pvp as it simply sucks and the skill isnt the most important thing.
Battlegrounds were just grind and became boring over time.
This is a complete lie. While class representation in arena is skewed towards a few classes, everyone can find a composition and bracket to work with IF they are any good.
WoW is a PvE game, for 1 reason, the main PvE in WoW is secluded from the main form of PvP...they are each on their own. People who really like PvP like it to be integrated and included in other aspects of the game...such as the case with Lineage 2, EVE, Guild Wars, etc...those are PvP based games.
Fair enough, you like to play that way, others like to play PVP a different way. Neither way is the "true way".
Instanced PvP is terrible and calling it "skillfull" is invalid, that's like saying Tic Tac Toe is skillful because you have to beat the other person, and it's a shame because most people don't know what real PvP is, because they just view open world as taking the system from WoW and removing arena from it.
You just said Guild Wars was a true PVP game, but now you say Instanced PVP is terrible? Guild Wars is all instanced, all the pvp is, all the pve is. GW2 will change this of course.. but to me it looks like you don't know what you're talking about.
I've said many times, PvErs are people who seclude themselves from an aspect of the game, PvPers are simply MMO players, there are some games where when you want to PvE, you're going to have to force someone out of your questing spot...when a raid boss spawns several raid groups want to kill the raid, so they have to kill each other first to get to the raid...that's what PvP is.
Ya'know I heard all about this from the Everquest nostalgia posts and to me it sounds really boring, with just grinding and camping. To each his own I guess, but trying to say that WoW's PVP isn't "real PVP" is stupid. Also isn't that what a PVP server is for?
But Guild Wars is an entirely instanced game, it's not an open world game that secludes a certain aspect of the gameplay to instances.
And you've just never experienced PvP in a true PvP game, nobody who has refers to it as just "grinding and camping", that's only what people think when all they can imagine open world PvP to be is what's in games like WoW, Aion or WAR.
And WoW PvP servers might have been called that 4 years ago, but not anymore...WoW only has PvE and Normal servers, if WoW had a PvP server the only way to get rating and honor would be open world kills, and if you wanted to do a raid, your raid group would have to PvP an enemy raid group and the winners got to go to the raid.
If u dont like arena then no. I mean bg's are fun but after a period u realise there is no goal to achieve ( no ranks / titles to win since vanilla wow,no bg ladder etc). As for world pvp i enjoyed it at vanilla but then again i was playing in a rp-pvp server and things were different at that time. Now everything is diferent ,evrything works via tools ,no world pvp (wintergrasp is queqed).
How many inaccuracies in that post ...
Current BG titles include Justicar or Conqueror. Also by winning the daily BG, you earn 25 Arena points these days. Since this patch 3.3 a LOT of fighting for that daily awards btw.
Next CATA will introduce a competitve ranking PvP competition (even with Guild PvP play added) in those Battlegrounds. Inclusive the return of older PvP titles.
Other PvP titles these days include BattleMaster and "Of the Alliance and Horde titles" as well as dozens of achievements (and a few PvP mounts).
Wintergrasp is NOT instanced, that is a BIG fat lie. It is on realm and the awards of owning LW gives small RvR benifits and it is a zone within Northrend. The only difference is that there is max cap of 240 people that can battle over the SIege battle and for this they are put into Raids (very conveniant and a nice balancing tool too) you have to apply for.
So next time get your facts together and inform you about CATA too.
I'm curious, do you really love WoW THAT much or do you actually work for Blizz? I only ask because you almost seem to take any criticism of WoW personally from the posts I have seen from you, you remind me of some guy that used to do the same not to long, Zorndorf I think his name was...
Personally, I fucking hate activison and, through association, Blizzard. But you're offering totally inaccurate points about why you dislike WoW pvp, can you flame him for correcting you?
If u dont like arena then no. I mean bg's are fun but after a period u realise there is no goal to achieve ( no ranks / titles to win since vanilla wow,no bg ladder etc). As for world pvp i enjoyed it at vanilla but then again i was playing in a rp-pvp server and things were different at that time. Now everything is diferent ,evrything works via tools ,no world pvp (wintergrasp is queqed).
How many inaccuracies in that post ...
Current BG titles include Justicar or Conqueror. Also by winning the daily BG, you earn 25 Arena points these days. Since this patch 3.3 a LOT of fighting for that daily awards btw.
Next CATA will introduce a competitve ranking PvP competition (even with Guild PvP play added) in those Battlegrounds. Inclusive the return of older PvP titles.
Other PvP titles these days include BattleMaster and "Of the Alliance and Horde titles" as well as dozens of achievements (and a few PvP mounts).
Wintergrasp is NOT instanced, that is a BIG fat lie. It is on realm and the awards of owning LW gives small RvR benifits and it is a zone within Northrend. The only difference is that there is max cap of 240 people that can battle over the SIege battle and for this they are put into Raids (very conveniant and a nice balancing tool too) you have to apply for.
So next time get your facts together and inform you about CATA too.
I'm curious, do you really love WoW THAT much or do you actually work for Blizz? I only ask because you almost seem to take any criticism of WoW personally from the posts I have seen from you, you remind me of some guy that used to do the same not to long, Zorndorf I think his name was...
Personally, I fucking hate activison and, through association, Blizzard. But you're offering totally inaccurate points about why you dislike WoW pvp, can you flame him for correcting you?
Are you talking to me?
If you are, then maybe you should go and actually read the posts, I never offered any "totally inaccurate points" about PvP, the first quote in that post wasn't even from me so I had nothing to be corrected for. If it wasn't aimed at me then maybe you should be more clear about who you are talking to when quoting a different persons post, or maybe go back and find the original post you want to comment on and quote that instead.
Comments
WoW has pretty good base for competitive PvP, not great, but not any worse than in average FPS. The arena may require some getting used to, but with a team you enjoy playing with, it can be in fact one of the best PvP experiences, I guess. Battlegrounds are alright, but teamwork lacks, it's usually just mindless bloodsplatter. World PvP is a lot of fun and contrary to what most think, I believe it's still somewhat alive, but mostly in RP-PVP servers. I used to play on Defias Brotherhood EU (RP-PVP) and there were a lot of world PvP and events, such as oldskool wars between horde and alliance. One of the reasons I only played on RP servers.
E: BUT... I'm fairly sure Blizzard is allowing you to fly in old world in Cata, so I guess that'll be the end of fun.
This is NOT true. WoW was always in mind with PvP or why do you think that there were contested areas from the start ? Blizzard just introduced instanced PvP aka BGs after open PvP / raiding cities to kill the leaders turned out to be a lagfest and crashing servers all the time. I was there since closed Beta and there always was PvP, ALWAYS ... its not an afterthought ... BGs were an afterthought but not PvP.
Battle grounds were planned for launch but never made it so they were patched in 6 months later. If any of you don't believe that then why is there an entrance to AV in southshore? Why is there Horde and alliance flags on the opposite side of a mouintain in Azhara - an unreleased battleground know as the crater. - both of these were in the game at launch.
PvP was not an after thought - some of my best PvP moments were in the first few months of WoW with battles between xroads and ashenvale - for tacked on PVP is was damn good.
True, PvP was always a big part of the advertised game and was there since beta, the problem was they knew from beta that the large scale world PvP battles that they promised it offered often crashed the servers the minute everybody started casting, by level 20 or so of retail on my Alliance characters we had crashed our server about a dozen times just by starting fights around Crossroads and Undercity, thats why I think BG's were needed, which is a shame because large scale world PvP was way more fun than BG ever was for me personally.
If u dont like arena then no. I mean bg's are fun but after a period u realise there is no goal to achieve ( no ranks / titles to win since vanilla wow,no bg ladder etc). As for world pvp i enjoyed it at vanilla but then again i was playing in a rp-pvp server and things were different at that time. Now everything is diferent ,evrything works via tools ,no world pvp (wintergrasp is queqed).
I'm curious, do you really love WoW THAT much or do you actually work for Blizz? I only ask because you almost seem to take any criticism of WoW personally from the posts I have seen from you, you remind me of some guy that used to do the same not to long, Zorndorf I think his name was...
I don't see that adding a "ladder" to a PvP system so risk-free and rewardless somehow makes it better. Carebear PvP is Carebear PvP. I want to loot corpses, not feature in a dinky little ladder system with other Carebears.
PVP in WoW, tbh, its rubbish, but to see why its so bad you really need to play a game that handles it well, if your only experience of pvp is WoW then your unlikely to see half the problems with it.. but WoW Pve is pretty well done even so, if the game was just about PvP i would have stopped playing it a long time ago.
Even Blizzard admit they screwed up in the PVP department of the game. They said they felt that they forced players to be in arena to be competitive in any sort of PVP and BGs were just an afterthought to get people the honor required for accesories.
With that being said with cata they tried to make BG team system, arena system and world PVP system is place so you can pick and choose what you prefer and get gear throug hthis way which in my opinion is the best move they made. My favorite system was the old Vanilla WoW system of ranks in horde and Alliance and actually working hard towards Grand Marshal and High Warlord. When you saw someone with this title you had respect for them for the amount of time and effort that went in to what they achieved. Nowadays you see a gladiator you think wow RMP group grats for having a over powered class in a over powered make up.
WoW is a PvE game, for 1 reason, the main PvE in WoW is secluded from the main form of PvP...they are each on their own. People who really like PvP like it to be integrated and included in other aspects of the game...such as the case with Lineage 2, EVE, Guild Wars, etc...those are PvP based games.
Instanced PvP is terrible and calling it "skillfull" is invalid, that's like saying Tic Tac Toe is skillful because you have to beat the other person, and it's a shame because most people don't know what real PvP is, because they just view open world as taking the system from WoW and removing arena from it.
I've said many times, PvErs are people who seclude themselves from an aspect of the game, PvPers are simply MMO players, there are some games where when you want to PvE, you're going to have to force someone out of your questing spot...when a raid boss spawns several raid groups want to kill the raid, so they have to kill each other first to get to the raid...that's what PvP is.
It's important to know one thing whenever you ask people about PvP... everybody has a different taste and preference when it comes to PvP. Gamers are very very picky in their "flavor" of PvP that they prefer. So I go back to my original post, WoW is worth playing for PvP if you have fun with it. So it's really up to you to simply go in and try it out to see if you like it.
Judging by responses you can tell there are fanboys that will defend WoW regardless of other people's opinions, as there are people who haven't played WoW in a looong time because of their inaccurate information, to people who prefer a space theme PvP in Eve, to people who think anybody that doesn't like FFA kos+loot are O.o's, and of course there are those die hard RvR siege fans that will love Mythic no matter how much they've screwed up Warhammer Online.
There's simply way too many ways a game can provide PvP fun to players, and people over the past 10 years have shown they like many different styles of PvP. Personally for me, do I think WoW's PvP is the best I've played? No, I think best PvP In MMO's was in AC1, Darktide server. It was a real blast. But to put this in perspective, Turbine openly admitted that PvP in Asheron's Call was an accident. That they never really planned on providing PvP but it just sort of...happened. Players took charge, with fps style gameplay and FFA ruleset, players made the rules and made it into a very fun FFA PvP game. So can we stop once and for all with these "PvP is an afterthought" comments? PvP is an afterthought for MOST MMO's.
Right now I play WoW and enjoy it due to the variety of things it offers. Some nights I feel like doing arena, and yes it can be fun and competitive. If you aren't good you will end some nights with tail tucked between your legs. Some fights my friends and I knew we were clearly outskilled. So don't say arena isn't about skill, and the gear excuse can only go so far seeing that resilience gear is so easy to get these days. Other nights I feel like doing BG's for fun, I have several alts in the lower brackets that I jump on to do BG's with some nights for non-top end gear PvP. While mining/herb gathering, and leveling alts, I've bumped into lots of open world PvP. They often just start out of nowhere and often can escalate into more and more people getting involved. PvP is out there for you if you just look for it and stop hugging Dalaran and do nothing but queue for instance dungeon finders.
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So by your logic Counter Strike players are PvPers? Why go through the effort of leveling up a character and getting all kinds of this gear when you're doing something you can get in Starcraft or a shooter without all that effort.
By your logic, DAOC is not a PvP game because you can level in safety inside the city walls, and only go out into the frontiers to PvP when you feel like it. Are you honestly going to call DAOC, one of the best RvR games ever made, a PvE game and not a PvP game?
Also speaking of WoW, majority of the zones you level in are contested, giving you a chance to fight over something. Isn't that your definition of PvP based games?
Seriously though, there are many different ways to provide PvP in MMO's. People like different styles of PvP so there's nothing wrong with companies offering different PvP choices. But just because you dislike how some of them are doing it, doesn't mean they aren't PvP games.
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Player vs Player, it's a pretty simple concept isn't it?
I play because it's fun. That simple really, if I had found CS to be more fun I'd be playing that instead.
What in WoW do you actually fight over that makes a difference? WoW's OWPvP is nothing but random ganks/harassment. And DAoC doesn't have it's end game aspects completely secluded from each other.
Because losing and gaining rating isn't a risk/reward. Also, I love auto attacking from standstill in a spaceship, even with the satisfaction of knowing I just griefed the fuck out of some kids it only goes so far.
Arena is a competetive venue for pvp. What I "get out of it" is the satisfaction of outplaying mirror comps or countercomps, and what the other team loses, along with 14x the rating of a win, is knowing they've been outplayed. I don't want their gold or gear, or for ther character to permanently die. That's fucking stupid, especially for the type of pvp arena is. Go auto your launchers or rail guns, bet you're really good at it.
This is a complete lie. While class representation in arena is skewed towards a few classes, everyone can find a composition and bracket to work with IF they are any good.
But Guild Wars is an entirely instanced game, it's not an open world game that secludes a certain aspect of the gameplay to instances.
And you've just never experienced PvP in a true PvP game, nobody who has refers to it as just "grinding and camping", that's only what people think when all they can imagine open world PvP to be is what's in games like WoW, Aion or WAR.
And WoW PvP servers might have been called that 4 years ago, but not anymore...WoW only has PvE and Normal servers, if WoW had a PvP server the only way to get rating and honor would be open world kills, and if you wanted to do a raid, your raid group would have to PvP an enemy raid group and the winners got to go to the raid.
Personally, I fucking hate activison and, through association, Blizzard. But you're offering totally inaccurate points about why you dislike WoW pvp, can you flame him for correcting you?
Are you talking to me?
If you are, then maybe you should go and actually read the posts, I never offered any "totally inaccurate points" about PvP, the first quote in that post wasn't even from me so I had nothing to be corrected for. If it wasn't aimed at me then maybe you should be more clear about who you are talking to when quoting a different persons post, or maybe go back and find the original post you want to comment on and quote that instead.