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IGE Killing MMO's
pegleg
Member UncommonPosts: 212
I hate IGE
All MMO's have grinds. If you don't like to Grind then MMO's are not for you.
Comments
And now your arguments
scientology
I hate them also.
As far as arguements go there is no need for them. No matter what you say the supporters of "I want to buy what I can't earn" will never be convinced that IGE and their like are screwing up games for everyone.
I hate them also.
As far as arguements go there is no need for them. No matter what you say the supporters of "I want to buy what I can't earn" will never be convinced that IGE and their like are screwing up games for everyone.
Now before I get into this, first off I do not support the selling or buying of ingame currency or items. And I definitally am not a supporter of IGE.
Now before I get into my argument, I would like you to provide one fact on how IGE screws up games. As an aside it better be pretty damn well thought out because I have been in this argument many many times, and not a single person has managed to provide a single factual backing to prove companies like IGE screw up a game.
As do I.
Me too!
)
(Yes - this was very constructive message
"I know I said this was my last post, but you my friend are a idiotic moron." -Shadow4482
IGE is doing what individual gamers were doing for a long time.
I don't like it, but you can't stop it, and I think many of the game solutions by the developers have done a pretty good job of battling the effect these chumps have on your everday gamer (spawn camping etc).
Habit is not to be flung out the window by any man, but coaxed down the stairs one step at a time. - Mark Twain
Well, even with the lacking reasons behind the obvious "I hate IGE" sentiment...
If you all hate ige, doesn't that mean the impact they have on the game is minimal, as the credibility is not there due to the hating?
Aren't you disproving your argument with your own anger?
Well, if you really have been in this argument many times and no one has presented a case that you find satisfactory ... then I have to doubt your statement about not supporting IGE. You sound like you need to be convinced to take a side against services like IGE. I strongly doubt anyone is going to be able to provide a paper trail or interview of an IGE employee spilling their guts to provide whatever facts you seem to require. If you have an argument, why require that others provide you with facts before you open up?
That said, one negative impact IGE (and other similar services) has on games is based on conjecture and observation. Camp hogging (farming). Many have reported this happening and I have personally observed it in action. A set of static spawns drops something valuable, whether tradeskill related or just a decent item. A group moves in and takes over the spot 24/7. I witnessed this happen in EQ1 and definitely in SWG. In SWG there was a cave that had mobs dropped fairly rare items used for tradeskills. Groups used to roam in and out of the cave to acquire these drops and it became so popular (it was at the time the only known source of these items) that a rotation list was usually used (at least on my server). Then a group moved in and seemingly never left. They were extremely hostile to anyone else entering the cave. Reports went in to SWG CS. The group was apparently warned (no factual confirmation). After a time they altered their tactics a bit. They rotated in 'new' players (same people, different accounts) to make it appear that the cave was in some form of rotation amongst groups. It was fairly obvious to other players that this is what was going on. More complaints were filed. Final resolution by SOE ... they closed the cave down by halting all spawns and placed the drops on other, more mobile mobs that weren't really campable. The abusers didn't wear 'IGE Farmer' t-shirts, but someonein my PA went to buy some of the dropped items on PlayerAuctions and sure enough, it was one of the people involved in hogging the cave that made the delivery. IGE owns PlayerAuctions, so the inference can be made that the cave farmers were either direct IGE employees or at least used IGE services to garner real world cash. BTW, this happened across many servers in exactly the same fashion. Makes it appear like a very organized effort and not just individual unrelated groups. So, a concerted effort to farm items with no intent to sell in-game (except to make in-game currency to sell for RL cash), can have a decidedly negative impact on gameplay.
In EQ1, we had a member of our guild that seemed a bit distant. Rarely made raids, but asked for help with his alts from time to time. The guild leaders grew suspicious for whatever reasons and began investigating. Turns out (he freely admitted this) he owned an internet cafe in California. He would give his customers discounted or comped hours of play on their favorite games if they would spend an hour or so in EQ leveling up a character or farming certain items. He would then turn around and sell the characters, platinum, and gear on PlayerAuctions. He had several groups operating at any given time. Once again, their farming denied the spots to players actually trying to play the game for its intended purpose, fun. He was booted from our guild as soon as this came to light and we filed a report (with logs) with SOE (who had made noises that they considered activities like this to be bannable and against the EULA). Action taken ... none. He still plays EQ1 to this day with the same character he started from day 1.
There are other examples that can be tied directly to IGE. Such as the recent IGE buy out of several Vanguard fansites (and offfers on several more) that seems to have been sparked by Sigil's very public stance against companies like IGE. This is detrimental to me because it ruins a game's community. One can go to The Safehouse site to read more.
Well, if you really have been in this argument many times and no one has presented a case that you find satisfactory ... then I have to doubt your statement about not supporting IGE. You sound like you need to be convinced to take a side against services like IGE. I strongly doubt anyone is going to be able to provide a paper trail or interview of an IGE employee spilling their guts to provide whatever facts you seem to require. If you have an argument, why require that others provide you with facts before you open up?
That said, one negative impact IGE (and other similar services) has on games is based on conjecture and observation. Camp hogging (farming). Many have reported this happening and I have personally observed it in action. A set of static spawns drops something valuable, whether tradeskill related or just a decent item. A group moves in and takes over the spot 24/7. I witnessed this happen in EQ1 and definitely in SWG. In SWG there was a cave that had mobs dropped fairly rare items used for tradeskills. Groups used to roam in and out of the cave to acquire these drops and it became so popular (it was at the time the only known source of these items) that a rotation list was usually used (at least on my server). Then a group moved in and seemingly never left. They were extremely hostile to anyone else entering the cave. Reports went in to SWG CS. The group was apparently warned (no factual confirmation). After a time they altered their tactics a bit. They rotated in 'new' players (same people, different accounts) to make it appear that the cave was in some form of rotation amongst groups. It was fairly obvious to other players that this is what was going on. More complaints were filed. Final resolution by SOE ... they closed the cave down by halting all spawns and placed the drops on other, more mobile mobs that weren't really campable. The abusers didn't wear 'IGE Farmer' t-shirts, but someonein my PA went to buy some of the dropped items on PlayerAuctions and sure enough, it was one of the people involved in hogging the cave that made the delivery. IGE owns PlayerAuctions, so the inference can be made that the cave farmers were either direct IGE employees or at least used IGE services to garner real world cash. BTW, this happened across many servers in exactly the same fashion. Makes it appear like a very organized effort and not just individual unrelated groups. So, a concerted effort to farm items with no intent to sell in-game (except to make in-game currency to sell for RL cash), can have a decidedly negative impact on gameplay.
In EQ1, we had a member of our guild that seemed a bit distant. Rarely made raids, but asked for help with his alts from time to time. The guild leaders grew suspicious for whatever reasons and began investigating. Turns out (he freely admitted this) he owned an internet cafe in California. He would give his customers discounted or comped hours of play on their favorite games if they would spend an hour or so in EQ leveling up a character or farming certain items. He would then turn around and sell the characters, platinum, and gear on PlayerAuctions. He had several groups operating at any given time. Once again, their farming denied the spots to players actually trying to play the game for its intended purpose, fun. He was booted from our guild as soon as this came to light and we filed a report (with logs) with SOE (who had made noises that they considered activities like this to be bannable and against the EULA). Action taken ... none. He still plays EQ1 to this day with the same character he started from day 1.
There are other examples that can be tied directly to IGE. Such as the recent IGE buy out of several Vanguard fansites (and offfers on several more) that seems to have been sparked by Sigil's very public stance against companies like IGE. This is detrimental to me because it ruins a game's community. One can go to The Safehouse site to read more.
I've had experiences like this also. And yes I also dislike IGE.
WARNING: Spelling and grammatical errors intentionally left in document to test for Anal Retentive Trolls.
"The key to wasting time is distraction. Without distractions it's too obvious to your brain that you're not doing anything with it, and you start to feel uncomfortable." - Paul Graham http://paulgraham.com/hs.html
Fact is IGE is just providing a service some gamers are interested in. Instead of blaming IGE or Ebay or whomever, game developers should just accept the fact that some people want to trade items and design with that in mind. In fact, I've mentioned before that this would be an excellent secondary source of revenue from a game. I don't see why a well designed game can't both allow trading and keep the game entertaining for non traders as well.
Trying to fight this is as pointless as the RIAA's fight against P2P.
Well said.
So they are buying out gamewebsite's. yea it sucks but the websites did not have to sell. As far as communities go, have you visited half of the smaller gaming communities out there lately? Explain what exactlly they ruined, most of em it was pretty hard to have them get worse. I do not particularly like IGE's tactics, however from a business standpoint I cannot hold any blame to them. They are doing what any smart capitialist corporation would do. They are doing what is necessary to make money, increase revenue, and increase their recognition. While they gain alot of noteriety in the process, I have lost count of the number of people I have discovered flaming IGE, who turned right around and Bought virtual money from them. But for that matter, IGE is simply doing what individual players have done for years, simply on a larger scale.
Also speaking of P2P, If you have ever downloaded a pirated song, or software, then you have zero room to look down your nose at IGE because you are no better then those buying and selling virtual coin.
This question taken from the Oratas interview of IGE's president, Steve Salyer:
"Let us take for example you invite your friend and myself to your house to play Monopoly. I land on park place and buy it. Your friend then lands on Boardwalk. I offer your friend 5 real life dollars to sell Boardwalk to me, and he does. I now have an in game advantage. Does this behavior undermine the spirit of the game?"
The same rationalizations can be used to justify this cheat that used by ebayers. "he spent the effort in-game to earn Boardwalk, so it's his to do with whatever he pleases" or "he's just providing a service that some players want"
But the simple answer is that the game has been spoiled. The scale is greater and more obvious, but the analogy holds true. IGE profits by spoiling games for those who want to play legitimately, allowing those who want to cheat to buy advantages they didn't earn within the agreed-upon rules of the game.
Myself, I would never subscribe to an MMO that actually legitimized real-life purchases any more than I'd ever play Monopoly with 'friends' like that again. I'm paying for a service by an MMO provider with agreed upon conditions, one of which is that in-game items won't be sold for real money. IGE is a parasite on that agreement, spoiling both the companys ability to provide it, as well as my ability to enjoy it.
I don't understand why people have trouble seeing this.
In reality, the person in your PA is more to blame than IGE. Companies like IGE don't exist without customers. People have camped stuff in mmo's since day one, whether it was to sell items for in game or rl money.
I fail to understand why people do not see this,
If IGE did not exist, individual players would sell the same amount of items/coin online. They did so long before IGE, IGE simply provides them a convient medium to do so.
People are acting like IGE is the devil incarnate, when in fact this behavior has been occuring for years. Fact of the matter is this, If IGE did not sell, players still would, reason why? because players will buy. So long as there is some worthless wannabe gamer out there who is too damn lazy to play the game himself, they there will always be someone willing to sell him what he wants. Ebay type sales have not increased as a result of companies like IGE, they have increased directly proportional to the increase in the number of players playing mainstream MMORPGS.
Lifes too short to have the same argument with the same small group of people who repeatedly defend IGE and who often believe a persons right to make $$ is more important than preserving the spirit and gameplay of a mmorpg as it was intended by the developers.
I'll just say it's time the developers got organised and got some balls and sued the hell out of the scourge that is IGE.
MMORPG
I could care less about defending IGE to be honest, it would not bother me in the least if they went bankrupt tommorrow.
However I refuse to stand by and watch people spout off ignorant drivel, without putting more then 2 seconds thought into what they are posting. I refuse to continue to sit idly by and listen to the blatent hypocracy of people condemning a service, then turning around and using it, and or applying a double standard to the people that contribute to the problem by buying from the service in the first place.
Honestly I am tired of useless hate post's like this, they accomplish nothing more then making the original poster and those that post in blind agreement look like nothing more then ignorant simpletons without the ability to generate an independent intelligent thought of their own. You want to do something about things like IGE, Player Auctions and People who buy ebayed characters, coin and Items? Start by refusing to have anything to do with people who obviously have used these services. Its extremely easy to spot them. Start by blowing the people who support the services off, and making it readily obvious that they cannot buy their way into respect for their "suppossed" virtual accomplishments.
I could care less about defending IGE to be honest, it would not bother me in the least if they went bankrupt tommorrow.
However I refuse to stand by and watch people spout off ignorant drivel, without putting more then 2 seconds thought into what they are posting. I refuse to continue to sit idly by and listen to the blatent hypocracy of people condemning a service, then turning around and using it, and or applying a double standard to the people that contribute to the problem by buying from the service in the first place.
Honestly I am tired of useless hate post's like this, they accomplish nothing more then making the original poster and those that post in blind agreement look like nothing more then ignorant simpletons without the ability to generate an independent intelligent thought of their own. You want to do something about things like IGE, Player Auctions and People who buy ebayed characters, coin and Items? Start by refusing to have anything to do with people who obviously have used these services. Its extremely easy to spot them. Start by blowing the people who support the services off, and making it readily obvious that they cannot buy their way into respect for their "suppossed" virtual accomplishments.
The people that buy are just as responsible for the problem as the sellers. Who do you have a problem with? I find it hard to believe that any significant number of people who start these threads are buyers. I'm sure as you suggest should happen that most people who take the time to post against IGE do not have anything to do with "those who use these services".
Anyhow, I've posted what I believe to be solid arguments against IGEs practices in upteen other threads just like this one so feel free to search if you are in anyway interested.
MMORPG
I refuse to continue to sit idly by and listen to the blatent hypocracy of people condemning a service, then turning around and using it, and or applying a double standard to the people that contribute to the problem by buying from the service in the first place.
Hence why I added the and or in there. making reference they tend to fall into one category or the other, sometimes both.
So you are trying to say people who take the time to post against IGE either tend to buy from IGE or support people that buy from IGE. And, when you say 'tend to' I can only assume you are trying to infer a majority. What are you basing this statement on? It's one of the craziest thing I ever heard lol.
MMORPG
I find it hard to understand why some people support IGE and all that virtual item business.
My first reflexion on this subject was 1)It's a game, and why should you get any advantage by buying something you did not earn. Just play by the rules or dont play or ask the game dev why you can not have xxxx the normal way. Just dont f*cking cheat. 2) When you launch your game you agree to rules, that include that you cant sell stuff from game or your chars.
With mmos being more and more popular this business grew up. I despise IGE more than all those Ebayers, supersales etc. because the really want it to make it an official business : means bore buyers. And more buyers means more sellers : welcom to macro/cheat/exploits/permacaming-land !SOE clearly stated they comdamn that business when it first appeared on this game, all mmo companies I know comdamn it.
Have a look at what's going on with Vanguard and IGE http://forums.gucomics.com/viewtopic.php?t=6438 (check all links, more info the more you dig in). All that crap and Vanguard is not even at alpha stage.(they are comiting $ 4 millions to buy "fan" sites this year if memory serves. "fan" site, pathetic fans.)
This one's also interesting http://forums.gucomics.com/viewtopic.php?t=6326 READ ALL LINKS !!
A fan site owner even posted the mail IGE acqusition guy sent him, too bad i did not have the link
I once read a thread about a guy who made mucho money with UO. When he played at first he usued to give stuff away to noobs with his powerfull characters. He stoped playing uo then played again later. Once he needed money bad to pay phone bill, and as an advanced programmers he started to look how UO worked and to program bots etc. I guess he's not that generous with noobs now. And if you know that the extra +5 long sword your carrying is worth mucho $$ if sold to ige, why being helpfull/generous with your guildmate ? (just an example). It can even get more far. Why not selling it to ige, then with the real cash buy something back with ige. And then just dont be surprised if mmorpg dont have players trading well implemented LOL.
Some example about the impact on games : some MMOs have to modify the way mobs are droping loot (and not a way more favorable to the player, thinking of EQ with soul bond items, random mobs or SWG with some loot moved from easy farmable mobs to quest obtained or from random mobs etc.), I also think about fishing with FFXI who is no longer macroable. Just examples I know, I think hundreds or thousands exploits are being used until fixed. You know who to blame if your server goes for an emergency patch (except for eq maybe lol).
Myself I witnessed macroers and permacampers more than once in EQ, people denying me spots I could have used. And weirdly those people did not raid or never grouped elsewhere. And just check what's going on on others games, all the gils biz in FFXI. Same is happening in WoW, L2, EQ 2. want something concrete : type "gold wow" on ebay...
I wished I had more links and facts but that's all I have in mind at the moments. Did not talk about farming centers didn't I ? I watched something on tv last week about this, i'll try to get a link.
IMO Buyers are to blame : no buyers= no sellers = no IGE. And those people are king of hypocrisy about this subject. Maybe Games are to blame too : "materialistic" games such EQ are farmers paradise. I wont even talk about all those asian games with their ungodly grinding. Personnaly I cant understand where's the fun in such simple grinding and time sinks opposed to the slow but rewarding Eve on line but well, another debate.
ps : plz check check the xfire thing for help against some law suit
[url=http://p
IGE is a casual players dream come true.Look at the IGE site and see how much AO credits go for.100 million for 30 bucks?Please man you would be a fool NOT to buy this if you intended to play longterm.
Even the ISK for EvE is pretty reasonable.
Say what you will but the ability to have x amount of credits readily available for purchase is here to stay.The hardcore elite players that have 6 to 8 hours a day to play dont need the game credits.If the developers made it easier to obtain credits in some games it would not be an issue.
IGE doesnt ruin game economies its the players.Put in a player run system and watch the inflation rise.If anything IGE helps economies.Providing massive credits for cheap keeps the casual player IN the game.Ive a feeling that the casual player base is quite large and the development of the company is a direct result.Casual players are at a distinct disadvantage when you only have 2 hours a day max to play it is difficutl at best to make progress.Most players see how hard it is and move on to another game as well.
It wouldnt even surprise me if developers made available "discount rates"for registered players that play less than 14 hours a week to buy ingame credits.This would keep a player base alive and in the game.Afterall the games need to generate cash.
If players quit the cash flow stops.BTW if you read the EULA for most games it doesnt say you cant BUY the items only SELL.
If you think for a second that developers arent making a little side cash your being naive.(they just wont admit to it)
Want to ENJOY an mmo?
Dont start a guild and dont be a leader or volunteer to be coleader or captain.
Just play the damn game:)
Welcome to the club. A few more lawsuits and it will be no more.
"Whoever controls the media controls the mind..-'Jim Morrison"
"When decorum is repression, the only dignity free men have is to speak out." ~Abbie Hoffman
I don't like or dislike IGE. There is no direct link between 'botters' and IGE.
So ruling that aside they are basically just redistributing wealth at a profit to them. And I don't really see what is bad with this. They are not destroying the economy, because they are using money that is already there. They are not creating 10,000 extra platinum, they are buying someone's platinum and selling it so someone else.
That is my stance at least.
I play games for the content and gameplay, not for what other people have, or where they get it.
I am one of those that basically don't care about IGE really.
Reason is simple.It really does not have such a big impact on games as people think.
Take a certain necro i know in EQ2 .He had the best horse ingame without even been in a guild at level 25 and would offer stupid prices for gear .He also had zero trade skills and was all round a lousy player.
Most people never grouped with him and the few that did always booted him out of the group very fast.
As far as i am concerned he never had any major or even minor impact on me enjoying the game.
If people want to spend their spare cash on virtual stuff let them.
Heck i know people at work who think i was crazy to pay £300(nearly $600) on the X850XT pci-e graphics card .
I say let them ebay.If I had known about ebay as a student for vitual stuff rest assured i would have sold most of my UO stuff back then because it would have helped me thru some real hard times