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A Tale in the Desert IV: ATitD Review
Stradden
Managing EditorMember CommonPosts: 6,696
MMORPG.com's Adam Tingle writes this review of the game that has gone through many tellings, but still retains its true sandbox nature, A Tale in the Desert.
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In life I am Adam Tingle, a pessimistic ne’er-do-well desolate of real achievement or ambition- oh sure I can do impressive tricks afforded to me by double jointed leg bones but I am surely but a blip on the landscape of human excellence and achievement. There comes a time however, when I sit hunched over the glare of a PC monitor- I transform, I evolve; I am AdamHoTep, wanderer and architect of the desert. In the last handful of days I have labored on a compound of brick, flax and straw, slaughtered countless camels for oil and leather and I have even become and outstanding onion farmer worthy of note. My pursuits of escapism into virtual worlds of fantasy have brought me to real purpose in this land of Old Egypt, ladies and gentlemen, boys and girls; I introduce A Tale in the Desert.
Read the ATitD Review.
Cheers,
Jon Wood
Managing Editor
MMORPG.com
Comments
CONS:
Community Driven Gameplay
Wait, seriously? I'm perplexed.
I applaued a game that tries to branch out. A game that tries to remember the origins of the MMO genre, rather than the Modern Standards of it.
It's actually listed in both pros and cons lists, which perplexes me even more.
From the review, sounds like the "Community Driven Gameplay" is a double-edged sword. When the community is there, things are great. But without it, things choke.
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
Not that complicated.
PRO: Community driven gameplay can be very fun and compelling
CON: The community can sometimes not live up to it's potential
The community of any game can make it a great game or it can ruin the game, sometimes both.
In the beginning the Universe was created. This has made a lot of people very angry and been widely regarded as a bad move. - Douglas Adams
Good review. It just leaves my major gripe with AtitD out: every so often there is a (planned) wipe of the world to start fresh with different rule sets. I can't stand that, as the author already described, especially with a certain point of development it becomes a nightmare to produce higher advanced things and need a looooot of time. So if you are dedicated enough to make it - it is afterwards just deleted. Grinding to have your "high level" deleted once he is there? Awesome. -.-
Played: Pretty much any fantasy MMO, some did not even make it to release ...
Favorites: UO, EQ2, Vanguard, Wurm Online, Salem, ESO, Creativerse
Playing: ESO, Creativerse, Guild Wars 2
Anticipating: (sigh) ... maybe Ashes of Creation
A major drawback for this game and in my opinion a key thing to make it much more popular is the $13.95/month price tag. Frankly, I just don't think this game worth that price tag.
Been there - done that. Tale 2 was great! Then Teppy introduced the level system which requires players to be a certain level to participate with various disciplines and tests. Those of us wanting to pursue the body discipline are blocked from the various tasks because we have not completed tasks in other disciplines we are not interested in just to gain the required level. Levels are great for MMO's that require your hero to be a skilled killing machine. We just want to live and grow in our complex of compounds and enjoy our Egyptian Life. Not possible with the the new Telling. So our entire guild has taken their entertainment dollar elsewhere. Sad to say, cause ATITD would be a great game. . .
Three things to add to the review and these comments if I may! :-)
1. The reviewer forgot to mention the puzzle aspect of atitd. The puzzles and game systems that players are encouraged to figure out can be quite entertaining and challenging. You mentioned the Tests, for example. While Art Tests allow players to create various forms of artistic endeavors, Thought Tests are player created puzzles. Players are encouraged to play puzzles created by players for yet another Test. Players can make their puzzles as hard or easy as they want; my Constellation has been solved by no more than two players so far! The Cooking system for temporarily raising stats is probably the most complicated game system in any MMO ever created.
2. The wiping at the end of a Tale serves several purposes. The most important one is this. At the end of a tale, a Monument is built for each of the 7 Disciplines of Tests. One player who has passed all of the Tests in that Discipline (called an Oracle of that Discipline) has the chance to design a new Test which will be implemented by the developers and offered during the next Telling. Tests are not the only things that change from Tale to Tale. New systems are introduced, and poor systems are thrown out. Mining for example changes every tale. New ideas of global of conflict are introduced as well. For example, in Tale 3, there was a plague that was contracted from player to player that lowered stats, and players had to research a cure. This tale, pollution from buildings effects how resources are grown.
Its also worth mentioning that the purpose of the game is to evolve it into a "perfect society". Players start off making bricks by hand, and eventually build machines that automate the process. The game is considered "beaten" if all of the monuments for each Discipline are built, and (arguably) when all research has been completed for new technologies.
3. In regards to levels, it is rumored that levels will be completely reworked in tale 5, and may even be done away with entirely.
http://teamriot.org
yep that is strange
BestSigEver :P
Goog point, but strangely, after some month in a telling, most players are bored with the current game and can't wait for the server wide off. To a point that Teppy (lead developer) is testing a multi servers system so that new tales start every couple of month...
Why are people confused by the fact that "community driven gameplay" is listed as a pro and a con? Is it really that hard to understand? Have your brains fallen out or something? Even without reading the review it's blatantly obvious why community driven gameplay can be both a good and a bad thing. So even after the reviewer clearly explains its effect on the game people are still confused?
'In life I am Adam Tingle, a pessimistic ne’er-do-well desolate of real achievement or ambition'
No offense but seeing this line, I can see his having difficulties in EVE as the survival guy...
I thought the end game of this MMO was to get enough votes and become Pharaoh? We are used to community being a problem in MMO’s because they don’t need a community, you can just play solo from start to finish. When you are in a game that actually needs a community everyone chips in. A remarkable analogy of real life in fact.
its actually con because theres no community = no gameplay
Wait a minute! I played this game years ago and without a doubt it was the very worst game I ever played...ever! When I say the worst game, I mean it. That includes all the baseball and football games, my little league games, golf games, my old Avalon Hill board games, lottery games, card games, every game of tic tac toe I ever played, my old atari games, all computer games and MMO's and yes that includes Star Wars Galaxies! The game was an excersise in futility. Crap graphics, no economy, no one on line.
To be honest , the fact that there have been four versions of this game indicates to me that indicates the developer is a masochist who, after a long day working on this thing, probably whips himself to sleep with rusty coat hangars. If anyone buys this my recommendation is to load up on antidepressants and antipsychotics so you can play for more than an hour without feeling a strong urge to kill yourself and everyone in your family. Good luck.
To clarify the reason why community driven gameplay is a con...
I can give you an actual example from a former subscriber. As a player, you need to be self-sufficient but if you try to solo in the game, you hit a cap and will not be able to advance anywhere at all. The game emphasizes guilds and cooperation to get things done. Soloing is actively discouraged through the game design by making the upper tier resources hard to acquire without other people. If you are stuck in a "dead zone" where there are few players to work with you will be screwed.
Example:
I needed to collect stone to build a pottery wheel to make pots to pay tuition to learn new skills.
Stone can only be collected through a dig. A dig can only be done with a group of 5+ players using shovels and digging in the sand together. As the sand clear out and a pit forms, stones start appearing. Another person needs to collect these stones. So you're looking at a minimum of quite a few people just to get a few stones. Since there is no grouping mechanism in the game, it's quite hard to find organized groups that are scheduled to dig for stones. I also lived out in the apparent boonies where there were only 5 active players. The next zone over was teeming with players but it took more than an hour of walking on foot just to get to them. Traveling is time intensive and just plain tedious in the game. (I don't mind that except it exacerbated the problems of the game when you had no one to work with to advance your goals)
Now, I could have traded for stones if I could. But most players want some unreasonably amount of rarer/higher resource that a new player couldn't provide. I could have moved my compound but that means I had to abandon all the materials I collected, all the structures I built that took hours and hours to get to and walk several hours to another region and start all over.
Faced with the fact that honestly I don't have hours and hours and hours a day to collect grass (which you can only collect 1 grass at a time, and then move to another space to be able to collect again). The game has it's own treadmill which is the resource treadmill where things break down so often even though it's a pain in the ass to build.
Another example: I needed to build a loom. It needs boards, and twine. Twine can made from growing flax which in of itself is a tedious system. You then need to rot the flax which takes maybe 10 min RL time. Then you have to build a flax comb, the comb separates the rottten flax and then you need to build a spinner which then spins the different separated materials into thread or twine. You then use the twine to build a loom. Sounds complicated? Yea it's time intensive and considering the game is built on resource formulas, I had to constantly pull up firefox to look at a wiki to figure out what to do (which I think is poor game design). Now here's the kick to the balls for a player. After you spend all this time to build your loom, you load it up to weave something only to promptly get a screen saying your loom broke, it needs 72 twine to fix. It's like the game designer shoved a pole into your crotch.
Don't get me wrong, I love the concept of the game but there are serious issues with usability (the GUI is ridiculously broken, the in-game map is a joke), and game mechanics. I want to love this game and I still have some great memories of some parts of the game. But what ultimately made me quit was the fact that as a casual player, you are essentially shut out of the game if you don't know anyone.
I expect ATITD fans to flame me now.
w1cket, did you try Bastet? Completely different feel to the community. Although, one thing I will say, the game is a lot more fun if you play with people than if you play by yourself. Every region with any population has a regional guild of some sort. Joining that will get you in on a lot of the stuff soloers miss out on. (You can join multiple guilds in this game).
On Bastet, the populated regions are Stillwater (where the big research guild is and most of the people who do research live in this region), Shabbat Ab (where the majority of folks tend to focus on opening tests and test passes), and Saqarrah (a nice mix of the two). There are some smaller regions for the masochists, like Sinai and Khmun. For people who like to play alone mostly, but occasionally want some kind of grouping activities in your home region, Sinai and Khmun are good bets. Outside of that, living anywhere else is not for the faint of heart.
Also, the various phases of the game feel very different. Right now, the main shard is nearing end-game. Most of the tests are open (and all will be open soon), most people currently active have passed a lot of the tests and achieved a lot of the goals, most of the research is unlocked, and really, they'll be heading into building the pyramids soon. Bastet is in early mid-game, which means a lot of the repetetive tasks that make the beginning of the game both hectic and for some people, a lot of fun, have started to be automated. We have a lot of tests open on Bastet because its player driven, but the majority are body tests (exploration basically) because we need research unlocked to get to the other schools tests. But we're almost there on a lot of the art and thought tests. New players can catch up easily on Bastet still, it's not so far into the game that they might feel others are really far ahead of them, but I again encourage everyone to join a bigger guild. It's a lot more fun being able to specialize in doing the things you like to do, and bigger guilds allow that.
We have a welcome back weekend this weekend - and we unveiled the new mining system for Tale 5, coming in a few months. So it's a perfect time to come back and check things out. Lots of events, conflict tourneys, etc. I'm Rosethorn on main and Ast on Bastet, so if anyone needs some questions answered, I'm happy to help if I'm on.
In response to w1cket and Rosethorn...
Now, as an experienced and BIG fan of this game, these two top posts are examples of one of the problems with this game. I've been told that a new player like w1cket, who spread his blood, sweat, and tears over his compound in some remote area only to realize later that he may have made a mistake in where he chose to live, can have their compound moved. That's right, GM's are extremely helpful towards new players... IF THE NEW PLAYER REACHES OUT TO THEM FIRST. How can new players be expected to do this when they don't even know?
When new players first join the game, they don't know what the region populations are, and what the benefits/disadvantages are of living in a given region. For example, certain usually experienced players LOVE the exclusion of the border regions for various reasons. The GM's will probably just make the mistake of responding to me with something like, "Eventually someone will tell them." This kind of response is indicative of a larger problem: new players are given so little knowledge of the game from the official site other than where to download the installer that it is rediculous, especially on Bastet where the Welcoming Island, which had tutorials at least, was taken out of the game.
The problem is that there is no centrally managed communication from the GM's/Developers. I'm not suggesting that the devs/GM's create a guide to the game (figuring out the game is actually part of the challenge of it), but there needs to be more official communication and documentation, in the very least to help new players solve problems like these. Sometimes a GM will explain things in the global chat for those who happen to be there listening, but the chat soon scrolls off. I believe that the GM's expect word of mouth to work or something. In very rare situations, GM's will make a note in the System channel, which lasts a little longer, but also eventually scrolls off. There is no central official FAQ or Forum. Sure, there is a player ran Forum where devs and GM's pop on and respond to posts once in a while, but that stuff isn't official and it is still up to the player to plow through the posts in hopes that they catch something. Hell, half of the time each GM has different information than the rest.
What surprises me most is that Rosethorn is a GM in atitd, yet she didn't mention that as a newbie the GM's might have moved w1cket's camp upon request. Its too bad that there isn't an FAQ or official GM rule list that w1cket could have looked at before assuming (and rightfully so) that it would be too much work to move his own compound, or at least learn about the risks of building in a low populated region from the beginning.
http://teamriot.org
This sounded interesting, until i went to their forum and found out that this aint interessting at all ...
What ive read you are pretty fucked up as a newb and there is no way to catch up until you wait till new "tale (reset)" is there. People monopolise resources, test which can be done only in a group and arent interesting for vets. Until you find some other newbs you are pretty fucked up. Main dev who is just trying to suck money and isnt investing effort to improve the game. So many down turns. At least it prevented me to waste time on this game. Forum is something nice in fact
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
Sounds like you only got one side of that story. Depending on how well you can learn the game, its not hard to catch up as a new player, especially on Bastet. Sure, there are a few resources on the main shard (not Bastet) that are monopolized (rare minerals and raeli ovens), but 95% of the other resources are not. Those that you cannot get, you can trade for.
The most difficult thing for a new player is the learning curve. ATiTD is a very complicated game. If you are a fast learner though, that won't hold you back either. I've seen plenty of new players catch up...
Not only that, but ATiTD has aspects of compitition that require you to be on the same levels as the experienced players, and it has aspects that don't. You can be pretty much any level of experience and still create Thought puzzles, make wine and beer, find new copper/iron ore veins (yes, there are plenty yet to be discovered - even on the main shard), etc.
http://teamriot.org
First of all, I was a player through most of Tale2, part of Tale3, and the very beginning part of Tale4 (the latest incarnation) - so I'm not just someone who tried it for a few weeks then gave up. I must agree with Raelyan's assessment of the game - the level system is definitely an ill-conceived notion, especially for casual gamers - not all of us who enjoy gaming want to spend all of our time gaming!!! Also, I liked it more when it was more PVE (player vs. environment) and less PVP. I don't mind conflict/challenges, but it seemed that especially in the latest Tale, the competition and conflict between different players quickly and often got out of hand. Also, Teppy and the other developers relished the chance to put larger and larger stumbling-blocks in our way (like introducing a lung spore disease into Tale3 - bad idea!!) - and those of us that had valid complaints about the direction of ATITD were often treated like whiners and often ridiculed by the developers! Excuse me!! We're paying for this game!! As a result ATITD became less and less enjoyable to play. I play a game to relax, and ATITD in its latest incarnation was not very relaxing!
I tried this game for awhile and just didn't see the point of it; unless of course it's meant as a cure for insomnia which it is very very good at. If you are the kind of person that can play through an entire campaign of Europa Universalis without falling asleep at least once then maybe you would like this.
This game sounds like a better version of WURM. would that be a fair assumption?
I think hte review is a little unflattering. And it appears as if the reviwere never played more than a month of the game, there's significant lack of understanding of the ultimate goals or many of the broad game concepts.
That said, this is a love it or hate it game. Personally, I loved it, for about 7 months. Then It started to be tedious for me. After about 9 months I drifted away. In three seperate tellings. My personal issues were that everything around there seemed to slow down and become like trying to swim in molasses. And I *hated* that I wasn't master of my own destiny when it came to passing tests (leveling). Most tests are passed on a basis of the 'top 7 scores at X' rather than 'do X, Y times'.
Cicecero, it doesn't compare to Ryzom at all but yes Visc, similar to Wurm. Better graphics than Wurm, and beter concepts.
I think eGennises could make a much more widely cherished version of this, without losing the integrity of the game. Part of the issue is, as people have commented repeatedly, the lack of players in a community driven game. The tedium creep, the test frustration, the price, and the complete lack of advertising all contribute to this.