To Role-play or Not to role-play/ That is the Question?
Why do you play a game? I can't answer that question, You have to. For a very few, they earn their living playing Poker, Chess, Bridge and other games, They may be playing their own money, or as happens often in Bridge, are so talented, or well known, they are paid by their partner. So? The big question, why do you play?
I play because I enjoy playing. Simply, the instant a game stops being fun, it's time to stop and look around for alternatives...Others may play to be King of the Hill , fight for power in the game,, Hero or the Hero's sidekick. Your answer determines how you will play your role.
“Play Happy, or don't Play at all.” Lee Jones advice to Poker Players.
I enjoy Role Playing games like, Dungeons and Dragons, however, the way I Role Play is determined by the group I am playing with,.if one player is speaking Klingon I can guess this group is hard-core, if people are discussing the difference between a '1d4' and a “1d20” you compatriots are probably new to the game.
When it comes to how much you really role play, speak as your character would, interact with the other players character, based on how your guy (AKA-you) feels about other party characters is determined by the groups dynamics. That is in the perfect game in a perfect world. Unfortunate we all live here, a world far from perfect, trying to discover if there really is intelligent life on this planet.
Finally, returning to my first question:Why do you play? My reason, with the exception of Poker, is FUN! That, requires using a diplomatic approach. In any group dynamics, there will be friction, pecking order squabbles, ego trips, stuff that can destroy friendships. It's an easy problem to deal with, forget your ego, and work with the group.. Enjoyment cements friendships.
Too much paranoia and generalization to take this opinion piece very seriously. Sure, we've all seen some degree of this stuff but this level of analysis borders dangerously on the negligent and prejudicial side of things.
I usually enjoy your articles Jaime, but this one came across as pure venting on your part. Did some roleplayers hurt you? Do you want to talk about it? I, of course, cannot claim this is the case, but that's the feeling I got from the whole tone of this "article".
This did come across as venting with a dash of information sprinkled on top. However, there's nothing like bullying, narcissistic, and negatively meta-gaming players (far from all of who are roleplayers-- it's just a type that's out there amongst the entire collection of gamers) to make one want to vent. I think VuDu_Dawl had it right: just recognise and stay away from them *wherever* you find them.
I must try to correct one point, by altering the application of one word and one statement:
Another rule is to not 'god-mode', referring to when a role-player goes outside the rules of fair play and either makes themselves impossibly invincible, or forces other players to bend to what they want to happen.
These rules are incredibly sacred to role-players, and they are how role-players create their own social hierarchy and caste system. There are three basic groups: the casuals, the rule-breakers, and the hardcore.
Where other players might simply shrug off the inappropriate antics of those who don't play fair, hardcore role-players go the extra mile to make them suffer. They offer no hesitation in blacklisting a "godmodder."
Allright; that it is incredible that people despise god-moding is not true. It's perfectly believable. God-moders are doing something no different in quality than hacking, cheating, or duping. No one decent likes or will put up with any of that, by definition.
And, other players do not in my experience 'shrug off' the innappropriate behaviour ("antics" is not a word I would use, as I find it just too, too precious and none of what's being discussed is cute) of those who not play fair. On the contrary, those who don't play fair get kicked out of decent guilds, blacklisted, ignored, not invited or added to groups, not traded with, etc. I can't see the point of even implying that only roleplayers practice 'community pressure'; it's simply not the case.
Casilda Tametomo, Priestess of Soldeus | AKA Lepida Aegis-Imperium.com
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
This is a no-brainer. If you play the game, you are obliged to follow the fules, both the letter and spirit of the rules.. This is not just a role players view, it should be the mantra of every gamerr.- no everyone with honorr - that makes everybody, play fair.
I have to say, Jaime, this article sort of missed the mark for me. I HAVE met players like you've mentioned, but you're plain wrong on most parts. (Mary Sue is a term for a character whom the whole world story etc revolves around.) The hardcores aren't as damaging (although they do damage the game, especially if they've got considerable weight behind them) as eRPers, simply because the majority of eRPers thrive on drama and attention. And the whole "sexual pleasure" thing means people become too attached to the other player, in a sort of creepy way.
You are sort of right on the cliques, though. There was a certain female on Argent Dawn (WoW EU RP server) who was the most elitist moron ever. She continually decried how terrible RP was now, and how little random RP she could get (she actually ignored people who tried to RP with her that she didn't know). I ended up putting her in her place on a couple of occasions, and was subsequently shunned, banned from "public" RP channels and the like. This also occured to a player Horde side who insulted an eRPer (apparently they were discussing allowing people under the age of majority to do eRP, her for and him against) and was locked out of all the channels. These were both people who were (or had connections to) cult of personality figures, simply because they'd been on the server a long time. Neither were very good roleplayers (very Mary Sue-ish in personality, completely lacking in flaws) and had very little useful involvement in the community outside their cliqué guilds. Conversely, people who were involved with creating events for the entire server were rather despised, (Adnaw is the RP MVP in Europe, people disliked her because of her rationed personality) which I found rather odd. Troubles like these are what'll lead to the downfall of the community.
But, ultimately, most people are nothing like that, they sit on the side of pretending to be very conservative in RP (as not to piss off the older players) whilst wanting something new to come along and kick them off their smug arses. It wasn't likely to happen, unfortunately, but you never knew.
However, RP is going down the drain in MMOs simply because it's not being supported. AT all, really. I've went back to MUDs and certain games to experience roleplaying. RPers make up about 20% of the MMO player population, why shouldn't we get updates too?
(Try and note I've wrote this at 07:00 after having no sleep. You can't blame me for mistakes!)
*smiles wistfully* Ah, the nostalgia... I remember them all... You did leave out the ones inbetween casual and elitits, though... the ones who just enjoy RPing quietly in a corner of the world, welcoming anybody who wish to RP and trying to ignore the OOCers who occassionally bare down on the city to make some fun of the geeks :P
I was never much of a gamer. If the RP wasn't there, I generally didn't stay long in the game. I don't believe I'm an elitist RPer, however, though I suppose that's a subjective opinion. I just don't remember ever discriminating against anybody.
I agree wholeheartedly with your piece, though, as a one-sided observation of how nasty an RP community can turn. Mostly because I experienced it myself.
There is the other side to it as well, but the golden ages are very few and far between, and usually doomed to end ugly as egos build up to super mass pending violent implosions.
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
This is a no-brainer. If you play the game, you are obliged to follow the fules, both the letter and spirit of the rules.. This is not just a role players view, it should be the mantra of every gamerr.- no everyone with honorr - that makes everybody, play fair.
Agreed, but only if the server is defined as RP. A common misunderstanding about RP is that it is a sort of mini-game, something you do on and off. However, the basis of RP is nothing else but playing in-character all the time.
Wow! Jaime must really have an axe to grind with some group of Role-Players here. Or maybe she just hates Role-Players in general. I don't know, but I can sure feel the venom coming from this article. Words and phrases like, "Don't be fooled: it's also a quiet lie.", "cult", "cult-like", "It's a dangerous hobby", "The truth is, role-players can be some of the nastiest, dirtiest players you'll find in an MMO.", "role-players are incredibly cliquish."... Dang! She's managed to call them everything but terrorists and pedophiles.
Look, EVERY group has bad apples in it. RPers, PvPers, PvEers, Soloists, Raiders, Boy Scouts, Catholic Priests, etc. I have been playing RPGs for nearly 30 years and MMOs for a little over 8 years. In that time I have met good players and bad players of all kinds. They are not restricted to any one group, nor do they comprise the majority of any group. I am a fairly casual RPer in an MMO. I don't RP often, but when the mood strikes, I will RP with willing RP participants. I don't do ERP or Furry RP. I avoid those that have "god-like" RP or characters with backstories that *completely violate the canon of the game I am playing in. If we are playing in LotRO, and your character is a half-vampire, half-dragon Jedi, who is the great grandchild of Luke Skywalker, that fell through a wormhole and landed in Middle Earth... I'm not going to be interested in RPing with you. And that is okay. I am not being a snob or a jerk. I am just choosing who I RP with. Just as a raider may choose not to raid with someone who has never allotted any of his talent points - or allotted them randomly, with no thought as to how they may affect his character's abilities in the game.
In general, I have found RP servers to be filled with much more mature, friendly, helpful players than non-RP servers. There is less leet-speek (which I prefer to avoid) and just a generally better atmosphere, in my experience. If the majority of RPers were as Jaime describes, I would expect my experiences on RP servers to be much worse than they have been.
Not sure what kind of roleplayer I am but let's drill to that a bit more later on. However I have rped with the people whom are refered here. Not drilling on that, I have met sociopaths, cyerists, utterly crazy people. I have also mostly met utterly nice roleplayers. Now, there is mostly allways the elitist group whom dicdate the rules in their "Realm of power."
Drama queen groups: involve everybody in their forced RP plot, you want it or not. Basically they create utterly emotional/godalike dramatic sceene where mostly all good roleplayers are forced to take part due it's emotional impact. One of such cases I remember in wow when this one female demon-vampire belf rper decided to start giving a birth in middle of city... Drama queens are just people whom need to be in middle of the attention. Such group are the people whom desire to be the main character of book, movie or atleast be noticed.
Elitists on the otherhand: Do social rapings, if you don't follow the rules they make sure you don't feel wellcome. In worst cases they make you feel horrible out game and ingame. Usually such people can be found in heart of the roleplay hubs, sadly they too often form the heart of roleplay community.
As said I know great roleplayers. But i know too many really bad ones,elitists,godemoters,drama queens etc. Sad fact is that mmos don't support much more than casual roleplaying. HC roleplay needs rules, that all agree upon, it needs dungeon masters, it needs tools, objects, tools etc.
NOTE; Before you read this you need to notice that I am an asshat when i get pissed.
Yeah so what happened with the woman who was giving a birth? Well at that time my roleplay/raid guild was having a "night off" basically throwing a party for the troops in silverymoon. So I had something around 30-40 people in lvl range off 50-70 in silverymoon. Me and my closest commanders in arms & council were having a glass of wine and discussing about battles ahead. (Raids, instances, forming instance groups to increase our raid strength) Sergant came rushing to us.
Dialoque went like this:
"Sergant Krulax reporting in!"
Commander (who's name i can't remember) asked for reason of the intrustion.
Krulax: "Well.... Sir, you asked that incase something occurs to repport in.."
Commander "Indeed."
Krulax "Well.... There is demon-vampire spawn is giving a birth infront of the pub."
So out of curiosity or something. We left to see what was the comotion about. Once we arrived to sceene, I understood just how sick was the scene. The belf had already given birth with aid of one of our healers. She descriped very accurately what happened. (wont re-produce it here as it was utterly sick) She was basically begging to hold the child so she could eat it, while playing with her thinggies.... Since she was obviously one of the monsters, there was no reason to tolorate it. I told my group to hold upon the child. I ordered "Slayers" (guild's pvp group) To move people away from her.
After brief discussion with my guildies we decided to break the bigest "tabo" and kill her, destroy the guild she was part off, as the guild was filled with similiar nutcases. So we did in roleplay.. Basically we seeked them all and offered them to leave their guild, take part of test to see if their also demon-vampires, or simply take pvp match with one of our guys. Everybody whom tried to god emote out from it got ignore. Everybody whom took pvp match and lost died got ignore and so on forth.
Only problem with that in wow is that you can't kill people in cities, and you can't kill people off for good. She started godemoting and such, but atleast we got her into ignore by most people.Still eventually we kinda wasted effort as they were all drama queens whom didin't respect roleplay of others. People like her/him give rpers a bad name. Btw (S)he got banned for offending behaviour after screenshots to DMs.
So my last words would be: that good roleplay needs better tools than what excists currently.
Although killing another player IC without their consent is a no-go too in most MMO RP communities, but I can see how the irritation OOCly grew that high that any action seemed better than no action at all and just standing there and letting them go on.
I also think that the first generations of MMO'ers had on average more people who were positive towards or familiar with RP, many of them maybe done or seen PnP RP games like Dungeons & Dragons and such. While later generations like post-WoW launch era had less people among them that 'got' RP, so overall the RP communities are less thriving and actively present than they used to be.
Which makes them also more introvert maybe. Next to that, the actions of many often don't match their words: many RP'ers are often complaining that there's less open RP going on in the gameworld they're in, and that there's far too many non-RP'ers and few RP'ers on the server they're on. But when approached or talked to, a lot of them turn away from new people trying to interact with the RP people, some of them even go so far as mock the person(s) trying into their face or behind their back because of their poor RP skills.
And yes, there are great RP guilds and wonderful roleplayers, but amongst them you also have the elitists, 'lore nazis' and drama queens, a lot of the time those set the tone for those around them in a guild or community. And what's definitely the case is that RP groups are more closed off and less open and extravert than they often think themselves they are.
Often only when you join their guild or are known in the RP community will you be seen and treated as 'one of their own'.
Well, that's my experience anyway :-) I've seen the good and the bad and the common denominators throughout the MMO's I played.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
good read, but its a good read from some one anti-rp. he may say he isnt anti-rp but just reading what he wrotes tells a diffrent story, he is indeed right that the rp rules are strict and stringent, but they are like this because rp is about further emersion into the game, also rp rules are not rules and should never ever be concidered as rules but more as a helpfull guide from other players that have speant a fair amount of time indulging in rp.
i agree with the op, their are some elitest rp players out their who see them selves as the be all and end all and patriarchs of rp, fact is, these people get it wrong too. they set rules for rp when in fat their are no rules, how can you define the life of a charecter by encloseing it in a little box with a bunch of do not do signs all over the walls. you can not! .
rp is about further story based of the lore of the game and genre of the game, its about the players creation into said lore and what they can add to an already gripping story. as soon as some one comes along and starts chewing you out because your rp isnt about the games story arc then simply tell them yto go screw them selves.
their are role players casual role players hardcore role players and learner role players.
most people fit in under the learner catogory, infact all people do ive been role playing on and off in diffrent games for about 8 years now and well im still learning, their is alwqays something some one else can show you in rp that you have never seen before,
then you get the casual role players, these are not realy role players, they are socialists who like to make friends with as many people as they can and indulge in all aspects of all games which is fine, i for one enjoy these people cause they mix it up a little too. one minute they are their and knee deep in rp turmoil the next, they are no where, as if like magic and then a week or two later they are back in the mix trying to catch up playing the old ive been kidnapped card or was sent of on a mission number lol. thing is it works with normal role players who stay in charecter and accept the fun party of screwing up.
casual role players tend to have a prefered location to meet up to ensure they can endulge with each other in an rp sence within the game, for example lord of the rings online, its main rp area for casual role players is the pranceing pony in bree town, if your new to rp and wanna get involved quickly then this is the place to start. this is the rp log in lobby for casual role players. your are pretty much gaurenteed some rp if you go here. every one knows this is the rp centre of lotro.
a true role player is indiffrent to every type of person in the game, they care not for external debates or who pisses who off the most, the fact is when hes playing the game he's playing his charecter. and he will remain in charecter for 90% of the time he is online. he wont god mod or god emote or anything like that, you wont find him at the pranceing pony either, infact this type of role player will be very difficult to find . they are usualy off questing in the game world solo and acting like they are alone in the game world while they are alone in the game world, these people know nothing of world chat spam or private tells to arrange an rp meeting or event. it doesnt happen!.
instead they mind their own business until they cross paths with another player, at this point their identity becomes clear, when you find one of these players it will be like opening the first pages of an epic fantasy story. an interactive story that you can participate in and if you have the time and patience and will, maybe you can be one of this stories main charecters and see it right through to the end and help the role player you just met to write this book.
meeting these kinds of role players are probably the best kinds of lessons you can have in rp, they wont tell you a bunch of rule or make you stick to said lore, they will do it how they do it and keep them selves to them selves. they are flawless in their ways and have dignitiy and manners. sure if you go upto one and call him by his first name without a formal introduction he will more than likely not respond and pretend your not talking to him, because in reality we dont have our names hanging above our heads for people to see, so he uses that ingame too. introduce your self to some one you think is an rp enthusiast and the results will be good. (not all rp players are elitest jerks, those that are dont really know how to role play)
hardcore role players are just people who like the sound of the selves and want to be known among the entire rp community, a little like your pvp elitests that want their name at the top of the ranks and will cheat to get their if they have to, i advise to avoid these types, their not good for game experience. a hard core role player is the one that wil preach rules and lore to you and use emotes to describe everything even his thoughts.. i mean come on!! how the hell do you describe a though with an emotion ??? hes putting his thoughts into words as an emotion, thats not rp lol it doesnt even sound right and if it was real wouldnt even be possible. so why do they do it ?? the answer is simple, they are so into them selves and love their play style and assume they are one of the best in the game at said play styles its gone slightly to their head, these people have no room for anyone other than them selves, they will find coflict with every type of role player their is and conflict with every single type of game play style, they believe the game should be 100% rp while not role playing properly them selves. and i say propeprly in the lightest of manners. there is no exact or propper way to rp just a few vague guide lines and a few do's and dont's.
a realy good role player will welcome all people into the community and help if asked to help to understand certain aspects of rp, its juts not right to go round telling people how to play the game, sure some people simply cannot grasp the concept of rp and will never truely beable to rp in the game with role players. some role players, usualy the pricks will let them know they blow at rp and exclude them, while others will not say a word and continue to uphold their own personal high rp standards and hope the new comers pick it up along the way.
i learnt to rp by jumping in at the deep end and as the op states, their are some pretty terrible people who love nothing but putting people down, a bit like the types that rib people for poor spellings with no knowledge of who they are where they come from and any learning disabilities they have. so what i did was rp for a couple of years in a private nwn server with some people that refered to them selves as good role players and strict server rules that complimented rp. this was great! i dont think i have ever played another game this way before and i still love it to this day. the rules where inplace to make the game world seem that little bit more realistic, and i think we can all agree nwn wasnt very realistic lol and looked pretty crap. but the server rules for rp changed all that. couldnt do world shouts couldnt arrange groups from other sides of the game world, all meetings must be rp'ed all groups formed must be rp'ed and every one was to remain in charecter 100% of the time at all times even when tradeing. they did however have this little rooms called ooc rooms. this si where people used to go for cig breaks and to just talk ooc to each other on friendly terms.
just think, would you go to a golf course and start playing cricket ?? no you wouldnt you would go to a cricket pitch to play cricket, the same respect applies with rp. in games. if you see people role playing and your not role playing or have no intention of role playing. leave them be or sit silently and listen in and see what they are doing, if you feel liek getting involved then please do so, they will welcome you, unless they are the elitest jerk types then in which case ill appologise upfront for.
rp is suppose to be further emersion intot he games theme. its supposed to be extra fun and another way to play the game, not a cult or club thats only open to exclusive members. rp is about interaction with othe rpeople and creating qaulity player content. nothing more.
i used to be a full time role player but there simply isnt enough decent folk around that rp to do it full time in an mmorpg. most people prefer casual rp as they can switch and swap between game styles, this basically means rp emersion is very limited in its content scale and availability in online game serves.
so yea if you find any people that are being egotistical jerks and trying to pitch you a bunch or rp rules that are fact, just tell them to go away or report them for harrasment.
its an mmorpg, sure rp is a great littel feature if its done propperly, but most of the time its just run by a bunch of fools that dont really understand the meaning of rp community. the key word being community.
one sec... im just loling at the thought of rp law and rules. so funny to think people are so arrogant to create their own rules and laws for something so universal. i just ignore these types of role players or report them and im a role player lol. i concider myself to be a pretty competent rp player too. but there is no way on earth would i ever preach rp rules lol to any one. that would be like telling some one they cant talk rubbish in the street or they must speak in the correct manner to the lady behind the counter at the drug store! its just not cool.
Although killing another player IC without their consent is a no-go too in most MMO RP communities, but I can see how the irritation OOCly grew that high that any action seemed better than no action at all and just standing there and letting them go on.
I also think that the first generations of MMO'ers had on average more people who were positive towards or familiar with RP, many of them maybe done or seen PnP RP games like Dungeons & Dragons and such. While later generations like post-WoW launch era had less people among them that 'got' RP, so overall the RP communities are less thriving and actively present than they used to be.
Which makes them also more introvert maybe. Next to that, the actions of many often don't match their words: many RP'ers are often complaining that there's less open RP going on in the gameworld they're in, and that there's far too many non-RP'ers and few RP'ers on the server they're on. But when approached or talked to, a lot of them turn away from new people trying to interact with the RP people, some of them even go so far as mock the person(s) trying into their face or behind their back because of their poor RP skills.
And yes, there are great RP guilds and wonderful roleplayers, but amongst them you also have the elitists, 'lore nazis' and drama queens, a lot of the time those set the tone for those around them in a guild or community. And what's definitely the case is that RP groups are more closed off and less open and extravert than they often think themselves they are.
Often only when you join their guild or are known in the RP community will you be seen and treated as 'one of their own'.
Well, that's my experience anyway :-) I've seen the good and the bad and the common denominators throughout the MMO's I played.
none guilded role players are the best types to meet, they are open to all wont mock you and just want to rp everything they do ingame, they also have a better fairness policy too as they prefer story and emeersion over knocking the crap out of some one in words.
joining an rp guilg is like being cattle stamped, your part of that herd and your farmer will protect you no matter what, only your herd can be in your field.
rp guilds are what ruin rp, they turn soemthing friendly fun and imaginitive into, rules lore and law. with this follows, anger, lies, treachery, back stbbing, hate mails, trash talk, petty wish wash, facism, and ultimately turns decent honest gamers into jerks.
its because of guilds, rp is no longer open, how can rp be open if you have to join a guild to rp??? guilds are formed by elitests who want only their rules in their own little community for their own cultists. rp confined to small amounts of people like that of a guild and that completely expell all outside iteraction with the rest of the gameing community is just failed rp as far as im concerned. thats not role play. thats elitism!! thats trying to be something no one else can be or wants to be, thats god modding its meta gameing itsa many things that dont work with rp. lmao guilds confine themselves away from the genral community because they have no tolerance for role players who dont take it too far.
rp is supposed to be and open and freeform, not governed by rules or players who think they are better than others. its not about who can and cannot spell propperly or who uses the correct grammer. these are all petty things some people have problems with and should simply not be aloud near an rp community. these people fail to aknowledge that their is indeed people with learning disabilities who like to play video games too. people with dyslexia and so on. not every one has univercity degree's in english. hell ive seen english rp elites slate geram role players trying to rp in english. and i was embarressed from their actions.. they was mocking german role players because their english was bad their spellings wrong and grammer was hidious!! these types of people should recieve ip bans so they can never be aloud back in the game again.
all games should have policed rp servers i think, with fair mods who know the fundamental basics of civilised behavior among a population of people. haver guide lines and a few does and donts to help guide newbies and a noob area so they can learn the basics of rp in a speicial little are where players tagged as helpers can help guide them to rp fame.
just the thought of hearing some one and seeing someone speak of them selves as good rp or acting like thet are great at what they do makes my skin crawl. noe one is perfect at rp, you cant be perfect at rp, its impossible, rp is a game style its a way of playing like pvp or pve or exploration or tradeing or crafting. lmao not like hocky football or tennis. their is no pro role players, any one that claims to be pro should realy sit down and have little think about it.
rp is open to all, every one is welcome to try it and get involved in rp. some people wont be able to grasp the concept and wont get any fun from rp and some will. and any one that tries to victimise another for lack of rp experience needs to be segregated from the community indefinately untill they obtain some personality traits and civil skills.
Not sure what kind of roleplayer I am but let's drill to that a bit more later on. However I have rped with the people whom are refered here. Not drilling on that, I have met sociopaths, cyerists, utterly crazy people. I have also mostly met utterly nice roleplayers. Now, there is mostly allways the elitist group whom dicdate the rules in their "Realm of power."
Drama queen groups: involve everybody in their forced RP plot, you want it or not. Basically they create utterly emotional/godalike dramatic sceene where mostly all good roleplayers are forced to take part due it's emotional impact. One of such cases I remember in wow when this one female demon-vampire belf rper decided to start giving a birth in middle of city... Drama queens are just people whom need to be in middle of the attention. Such group are the people whom desire to be the main character of book, movie or atleast be noticed.
Elitists on the otherhand: Do social rapings, if you don't follow the rules they make sure you don't feel wellcome. In worst cases they make you feel horrible out game and ingame. Usually such people can be found in heart of the roleplay hubs, sadly they too often form the heart of roleplay community.
As said I know great roleplayers. But i know too many really bad ones,elitists,godemoters,drama queens etc. Sad fact is that mmos don't support much more than casual roleplaying. HC roleplay needs rules, that all agree upon, it needs dungeon masters, it needs tools, objects, tools etc.
NOTE; Before you read this you need to notice that I am an asshat when i get pissed.
Yeah so what happened with the woman who was giving a birth? Well at that time my roleplay/raid guild was having a "night off" basically throwing a party for the troops in silverymoon. So I had something around 30-40 people in lvl range off 50-70 in silverymoon. Me and my closest commanders in arms & council were having a glass of wine and discussing about battles ahead. (Raids, instances, forming instance groups to increase our raid strength) Sergant came rushing to us.
Dialoque went like this:
"Sergant Krulax reporting in!"
Commander (who's name i can't remember) asked for reason of the intrustion.
Krulax: "Well.... Sir, you asked that incase something occurs to repport in.."
Commander "Indeed."
Krulax "Well.... There is demon-vampire spawn is giving a birth infront of the pub."
So out of curiosity or something. We left to see what was the comotion about. Once we arrived to sceene, I understood just how sick was the scene. The belf had already given birth with aid of one of our healers. She descriped very accurately what happened. (wont re-produce it here as it was utterly sick) She was basically begging to hold the child so she could eat it, while playing with her thinggies.... Since she was obviously one of the monsters, there was no reason to tolorate it. I told my group to hold upon the child. I ordered "Slayers" (guild's pvp group) To move people away from her.
After brief discussion with my guildies we decided to break the bigest "tabo" and kill her, destroy the guild she was part off, as the guild was filled with similiar nutcases. So we did in roleplay.. Basically we seeked them all and offered them to leave their guild, take part of test to see if their also demon-vampires, or simply take pvp match with one of our guys. Everybody whom tried to god emote out from it got ignore. Everybody whom took pvp match and lost died got ignore and so on forth.
Only problem with that in wow is that you can't kill people in cities, and you can't kill people off for good. She started godemoting and such, but atleast we got her into ignore by most people.Still eventually we kinda wasted effort as they were all drama queens whom didin't respect roleplay of others. People like her/him give rpers a bad name. Btw (S)he got banned for offending behaviour after screenshots to DMs.
So my last words would be: that good roleplay needs better tools than what excists currently.
well to kil their guild you would have to god emote it in the first place, and to force them to use emotes to get out of dieing by putting them on ignore was also god emoteing too.. this is the exact elitest attidude people dont want to see in rp.. im sorry sir but your a good example of how not to rp.. your guild clearly has its own very strickt rp polocies and rules that only apply to your guild and not the greater community. you basically dictate the out come of other peoples rp by breaking your own so called rules and tabo's. not very smart
sure what they was role playing wa ssprobably disgusting and off plot slightly for a game enviroment, but thats not really for another plaayer to decide or punish for.. thats why you have the option to report players for conduct.
you just openely admitted to being the type of role player no body wants to see. well done buddy!!
lol its article make me remember my days when I played RFonline, no Role Players there, but all the hate griefing and drama you describe as there XD, so its still make wonder? what is the diference of the RP over the non-RP?
none all are people who have nothing else to do.... just exist to annoy you, I guess it was a reason for me to love pvp games, I kil the moron and move on, if he come back kill him again XD, nothing like make a kid thrown a tantrum for you killing him, and don't forget the block XD
because you dont know what the difference between rp and none-rp is actualy the difrence between them lol. the diffrence is you dont know what the diffrence is. am i makeing sence to you ? i suspect not
This article really does go too far in trying to malign RPers in general. It is a poor article and, as others have said, reads like something that was written in anger due to recent events. You've written about everything negative about RPing that you could think of, and almost nothing positive.
well to kil their guild you would have to god emote it in the first place, and to force them to use emotes to get out of dieing by putting them on ignore was also god emoteing too.. this is the exact elitest attidude people dont want to see in rp.. im sorry sir but your a good example of how not to rp.. your guild clearly has its own very strickt rp polocies and rules that only apply to your guild and not the greater community. you basically dictate the out come of other peoples rp by breaking your own so called rules and tabo's. not very smart
sure what they was role playing wa ssprobably disgusting and off plot slightly for a game enviroment, but thats not really for another plaayer to decide or punish for.. thats why you have the option to report players for conduct.
you just openely admitted to being the type of role player no body wants to see. well done buddy!!
It's not something i am exactly proud off, it's not something that should be done in any circumstances. But then again whatever one does it offends somebody. If you too critical somebody disagrees if to agreeing/positive somebody disagrees. Often in insulting way. Our actions could be concidered as stealing one's freedom of choice.
But what comes to the type of roleplayer I am?
Let me illuminate my position as guild leader in such situation, I had in my command the largest roleplay/raid guild upon the server. I believe that guild leader needs to have level head and calm nature in any stresfull cirumstances. Not even the wiesest person is a good leader if he can't controll his emotions. We could say that a leader is required to take drastic mesures to ensure his guild members that their in good hands.
In my view: The person, broke rules of the server and the eula with her beahviour. I could just have ignored her, but in such situation where there are 50 people, you can't decide that the situation doesn't occur when it does. So can I ignore situation if my guild & others don't? Answer is simply a NO as majority reacted to situation I was forced to do so aswell. Most people were absolutely furious, I did break role for sake of rules and said that he/she is breaking rules.
However as even then my actions/words offended somebody. I was in position to make the call, to take the action. What do you choose, your own morale screams deciding to report and ignore. Others didin't think so. I could have used my leader's power to ask people to ignore however, I decided to be loyal to roleplay and others.
So I did what was required, took the action. In terms of roleplay, everybody refered her/him as monster. In such fantasy setting, monsters die. Even city guard would killed the monster, so in the setting's spirit. It was radical action however that's something I deemed nessasserry. So is the right choice to ignore every situation of not my liking?
If this all makes me disgusting/dislikable roleplayer or likable strong figure is for each to decide. Idealist can claim I am wrong, laywer can claim the same, judge might agree with me. In a way there is no right or wrong. Wrong is when one takes law upon his hands, right is when one let's the law deal with situation, but if there is no laws or rules that dicate what is illeagall? Perhaps roleplay lore nazis are right, as they set the tight rules? Perhaps it's the casualists whom are right? In the end of the day everybody lost in that situation.
A reason why I brought up the rules and tools, is simply the fact that roleplay situations often dictate you to grey area that is between good taste and straightout against the rules. I personally believe that I did the right thing, made the right call. As people become bloodhungry pack of mindless beasts when their safe heaven is stepped one.
In other words, all is about point of view. But in the end of the day, what is really right? to allow one roleplayer to ruin it for 50 others, or do as the 50 believe to be right? I have no preset layer of answers for that question.
But please don't judge me upon one opinnion or one action.
This article really does go too far in trying to malign RPers in general. It is a poor article and, as others have said, reads like something that was written in anger due to recent events. You've written about everything negative about RPing that you could think of, and almost nothing positive.
Well, Disdena (and others), the Subject title was "Cult of (Multiple) personality" not "RP in MMO's the goods and the bads".
Or as the opening sentence on the news-page says:
"MMORPG.com's Jaime Skelton uses her Player Perspectives column this week to talk about the darker side of the role-playing sub-culture in MMOs."
Really, after that sentence how could you not have expected the focus to be on the darker or more frowned-upon/annoying aspects of RP?
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I'm an RP'er and a guild leader, and what you just described is something I have to work very, very hard to avoid. My guild is on an RP server in EQ2, and, when I first started there, I had this imaginary place in my head where everyone would just RP with me wherever I went, that it would grow organically ... much as it had in MUDD's I'd played in the past. Alas, this was a vicious lie.
Now, as a guild leader of an RP guild, I have to work hard to provide a friendly, drama-lite environment for the people in my guild, and this usually means vetting candidates very thoroughly on top of their application. I have everything from silly RP'ers to very serious types, and some hard core types along with raiders, but because my main criteria is a. did your mama teach you manners? and b. Do you attract drama or repel it? and c. Are you nice? Everyone pretty much gets along. Sort of. Most of the time. Hah hah
I don't know if that's snobby or not, but I've had members come from other guilds and RP experiences who had pretty much been beaten and bullied to a pulp. I've had to tell people to leave my guild who have gotten so caught up in their own sense of importance that they were bullying other guild members, and I've turned away RP'ers who were so snobby they thought they would 'fix' my guild.
It says a lot about a community when you and a few of the other guild leaders see their jobs as providing 'safe havens' for people. The entire community isn't necessarily this way, but there are enough danger zones that it can be scary for a new player who really only wants to join in and have fun. I've developed a new appreciation for my boss at work when she's had to fire someone, because my main job in game is to act as a kind of peace keeper and facilitator of fun. When I see drama stirring, I make no apologies for quashing it with a giant hammer.
This article really does go too far in trying to malign RPers in general. It is a poor article and, as others have said, reads like something that was written in anger due to recent events. You've written about everything negative about RPing that you could think of, and almost nothing positive.
Well, Disdena (and others), the Subject title was "Cult of (Multiple) personality" not "RP in MMO's the goods and the bads".
Or as the opening sentence on the news-page says:
"MMORPG.com's Jaime Skelton uses her Player Perspectives column this week to talk about the darker side of the role-playing sub-culture in MMOs."
Really, after that sentence how could you not have expected the focus to be on the darker or more frowned-upon/annoying aspects of RP?
I hope you don't think I'm nitpicking at semantics here, but in order to have a "darker side", there would have to be a light side. What Jamie has written goes a long way in trying to prove that there is no light side. She went past the point of claiming "there's a light side and darker side to RP, here's the darker side" and well into "all RP is bad" territory.
Don't be fooled: it's also a quiet lie.
Here, she's talking about what she just described in the previous paragraph: roleplayers who explain the ins-and-outs of RP, publicly RP, and invite others to join in for fun. Even if you accept the rest of her article — that hardcore RPers are bad because they are elitist, cliquish, and "full of vitriol" — it doesn't make any sense to malign the people who are encouraging RP in a way that anyone would approve of. She takes the people who gently instruct, encourage, and host welcome-all events, and accuses them of being a lie. Not misleading, not a rare exception, and not naive about the actions of their roleplaying peers. A lie. She claims that people who RP in an acceptable way, the people on what you could otherwise call the lighter side of the role-playing sub-culture, have ill motives at heart and are acting kind and welcoming only as a deception. She flatly denies that a lighter side of RP can exist at all.
There are three basic groups: the casuals, the rule-breakers, and the hardcore. Casual role-players (aka "softcore") are the majority group. This is a catch-all term that includes players who may only role-play once in a while, to those that role-play on a more regular basis but are a little more relaxed to the 'rules.' They may be the ones who do things simply because it's something else to do between waiting on a dungeon or engaging in PvP, or while they're doing other things. It's simple enjoyment to them, and they generally don't care how other people might view them.
There's no need for me to break down the last two groups that she mentions, as she describes them as evil-incarnate. But in glossing over casuals, she reveals the depth of her convictions that the dark side of RP is the only side. She says that casual RPers are the softcore ones, people who either do not roleplay all the time, or who do not follow the supposedly sacred cardinal rules. As there are only three groups that she thinks roleplayers fall into, the only way to avoid being classified as a bad one is to not roleplay all the time, or to roleplay the wrong way. Phrased another way, if you are in character more than occasionally and you follow commonsense RP conventions, you are automatically a blight on the server community. This is another flat denial that there can be a good side to RP; the only way to do it right is to do it wrong or to hardly do it at all.
I could go on but there's no need. Enough people have already seen (and commented) that this is a vindictive article containing a lot of generalizations that have no basis in fact. Jamie has no shame in playing armchair psychiatrist, laying on plenty of loaded phrases like "the fake lives they're leading", "their sudden, secret emotional needs", "dwell in a fantasy world", "turning away others to feel better about themselves". For shame. The claims that she makes about cliquish hardcore RPers turning on their friends are so outlandish and so bizarrely specific (especially towards the end) that I really can't help playing psychiatrist myself and claiming that she's talking about actual events that recently happened to her personally and have nothing to do with the rest of the RP community on that server, in that game, or anywhere in MMOs.
This is a no-brainer. If you play the game, you are obliged to follow the fules, both the letter and spirit of the rules.. This is not just a role players view, it should be the mantra of every gamerr.- no everyone with honorr - that makes everybody, play fair.
Agreed, but only if the server is defined as RP. A common misunderstanding about RP is that it is a sort of mini-game, something you do on and off. However, the basis of RP is nothing else but playing in-character all the time.
I don't believe a dedicated server is neccesary. The group you are with determines how much you role-play, some wan't to role-p[ay as if they were King Kear, others just wan't to go out and wack something.. If you match your play style to that of the rest of your team, It has been my experience, being flexable, keeps the fun going with out the Drama.some seem to thrive on.
Most games require cooperation of players to achieve goals. "We must hang together or surly we will hang seperatly." Ben Franklin.
In my worlld, games are played untill they stop being fun..If I am not enjoying the game, why keep playiing..
Really, after that sentence how could you not have expected the focus to be on the darker or more frowned-upon/annoying aspects of RP?
It doesn't have to focus on the positive side of things, but the article is using a broad brush to try and paint most roleplayers that way. You can talk about the problem people in roleplaying communities without implying that most (if not all) are like that.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
This is a no-brainer. If you play the game, you are obliged to follow the fules, both the letter and spirit of the rules.. This is not just a role players view, it should be the mantra of every gamerr.- no everyone with honorr - that makes everybody, play fair.
Agreed, but only if the server is defined as RP. A common misunderstanding about RP is that it is a sort of mini-game, something you do on and off. However, the basis of RP is nothing else but playing in-character all the time.
I got about halfway through the comments and had to quote this one. How many RP guilds have I jooined only to see (()) around everything they /s, /g, /t, and /gu. Then there was the incessant RP in /gu even though we were all on opposite ends of the game world. Yeah, my toon is fighting for her life right now, not sitting in the guild's imaginary lounge.
So what kind of RPer am I? I like playing my character as it exists in game. That's not just guild chat or RP events, that's with the choices it makes.
It's funny that I've experienced players that griefed RPers, but not the other way around...
Comments
To Role-play or Not to role-play/ That is the Question?
Why do you play a game? I can't answer that question, You have to. For a very few, they earn their living playing Poker, Chess, Bridge and other games, They may be playing their own money, or as happens often in Bridge, are so talented, or well known, they are paid by their partner. So? The big question, why do you play?
I play because I enjoy playing. Simply, the instant a game stops being fun, it's time to stop and look around for alternatives...Others may play to be King of the Hill , fight for power in the game,, Hero or the Hero's sidekick. Your answer determines how you will play your role.
“Play Happy, or don't Play at all.” Lee Jones advice to Poker Players.
I enjoy Role Playing games like, Dungeons and Dragons, however, the way I Role Play is determined by the group I am playing with,.if one player is speaking Klingon I can guess this group is hard-core, if people are discussing the difference between a '1d4' and a “1d20” you compatriots are probably new to the game.
When it comes to how much you really role play, speak as your character would, interact with the other players character, based on how your guy (AKA-you) feels about other party characters is determined by the groups dynamics. That is in the perfect game in a perfect world. Unfortunate we all live here, a world far from perfect, trying to discover if there really is intelligent life on this planet.
Finally, returning to my first question:Why do you play? My reason, with the exception of Poker, is FUN! That, requires using a diplomatic approach. In any group dynamics, there will be friction, pecking order squabbles, ego trips, stuff that can destroy friendships. It's an easy problem to deal with, forget your ego, and work with the group.. Enjoyment cements friendships.
Have Fun!
I usually enjoy your articles Jaime, but this one came across as pure venting on your part. Did some roleplayers hurt you? Do you want to talk about it? I, of course, cannot claim this is the case, but that's the feeling I got from the whole tone of this "article".
This did come across as venting with a dash of information sprinkled on top. However, there's nothing like bullying, narcissistic, and negatively meta-gaming players (far from all of who are roleplayers-- it's just a type that's out there amongst the entire collection of gamers) to make one want to vent. I think VuDu_Dawl had it right: just recognise and stay away from them *wherever* you find them.
I must try to correct one point, by altering the application of one word and one statement:
Another rule is to not 'god-mode', referring to when a role-player goes outside the rules of fair play and either makes themselves impossibly invincible, or forces other players to bend to what they want to happen.
These rules are incredibly sacred to role-players, and they are how role-players create their own social hierarchy and caste system. There are three basic groups: the casuals, the rule-breakers, and the hardcore.
Where other players might simply shrug off the inappropriate antics of those who don't play fair, hardcore role-players go the extra mile to make them suffer. They offer no hesitation in blacklisting a "godmodder."
Allright; that it is incredible that people despise god-moding is not true. It's perfectly believable. God-moders are doing something no different in quality than hacking, cheating, or duping. No one decent likes or will put up with any of that, by definition.
And, other players do not in my experience 'shrug off' the innappropriate behaviour ("antics" is not a word I would use, as I find it just too, too precious and none of what's being discussed is cute) of those who not play fair. On the contrary, those who don't play fair get kicked out of decent guilds, blacklisted, ignored, not invited or added to groups, not traded with, etc. I can't see the point of even implying that only roleplayers practice 'community pressure'; it's simply not the case.
«Si oblitus fuero usque ad finem omnia opera eorum»
This is a no-brainer. If you play the game, you are obliged to follow the fules, both the letter and spirit of the rules.. This is not just a role players view, it should be the mantra of every gamerr.- no everyone with honorr - that makes everybody, play fair.
I have to say, Jaime, this article sort of missed the mark for me. I HAVE met players like you've mentioned, but you're plain wrong on most parts. (Mary Sue is a term for a character whom the whole world story etc revolves around.) The hardcores aren't as damaging (although they do damage the game, especially if they've got considerable weight behind them) as eRPers, simply because the majority of eRPers thrive on drama and attention. And the whole "sexual pleasure" thing means people become too attached to the other player, in a sort of creepy way.
You are sort of right on the cliques, though. There was a certain female on Argent Dawn (WoW EU RP server) who was the most elitist moron ever. She continually decried how terrible RP was now, and how little random RP she could get (she actually ignored people who tried to RP with her that she didn't know). I ended up putting her in her place on a couple of occasions, and was subsequently shunned, banned from "public" RP channels and the like. This also occured to a player Horde side who insulted an eRPer (apparently they were discussing allowing people under the age of majority to do eRP, her for and him against) and was locked out of all the channels. These were both people who were (or had connections to) cult of personality figures, simply because they'd been on the server a long time. Neither were very good roleplayers (very Mary Sue-ish in personality, completely lacking in flaws) and had very little useful involvement in the community outside their cliqué guilds. Conversely, people who were involved with creating events for the entire server were rather despised, (Adnaw is the RP MVP in Europe, people disliked her because of her rationed personality) which I found rather odd. Troubles like these are what'll lead to the downfall of the community.
But, ultimately, most people are nothing like that, they sit on the side of pretending to be very conservative in RP (as not to piss off the older players) whilst wanting something new to come along and kick them off their smug arses. It wasn't likely to happen, unfortunately, but you never knew.
However, RP is going down the drain in MMOs simply because it's not being supported. AT all, really. I've went back to MUDs and certain games to experience roleplaying. RPers make up about 20% of the MMO player population, why shouldn't we get updates too?
(Try and note I've wrote this at 07:00 after having no sleep. You can't blame me for mistakes!)
*smiles wistfully* Ah, the nostalgia... I remember them all... You did leave out the ones inbetween casual and elitits, though... the ones who just enjoy RPing quietly in a corner of the world, welcoming anybody who wish to RP and trying to ignore the OOCers who occassionally bare down on the city to make some fun of the geeks :P
I was never much of a gamer. If the RP wasn't there, I generally didn't stay long in the game. I don't believe I'm an elitist RPer, however, though I suppose that's a subjective opinion. I just don't remember ever discriminating against anybody.
I agree wholeheartedly with your piece, though, as a one-sided observation of how nasty an RP community can turn. Mostly because I experienced it myself.
There is the other side to it as well, but the golden ages are very few and far between, and usually doomed to end ugly as egos build up to super mass pending violent implosions.
"So I contend that the player stories will always be more powerful than the scripted stories that we try to tell the players."
- Will Wright
Agreed, but only if the server is defined as RP. A common misunderstanding about RP is that it is a sort of mini-game, something you do on and off. However, the basis of RP is nothing else but playing in-character all the time.
Wow! Jaime must really have an axe to grind with some group of Role-Players here. Or maybe she just hates Role-Players in general. I don't know, but I can sure feel the venom coming from this article. Words and phrases like, "Don't be fooled: it's also a quiet lie.", "cult", "cult-like", "It's a dangerous hobby", "The truth is, role-players can be some of the nastiest, dirtiest players you'll find in an MMO.", "role-players are incredibly cliquish."... Dang! She's managed to call them everything but terrorists and pedophiles.
Look, EVERY group has bad apples in it. RPers, PvPers, PvEers, Soloists, Raiders, Boy Scouts, Catholic Priests, etc. I have been playing RPGs for nearly 30 years and MMOs for a little over 8 years. In that time I have met good players and bad players of all kinds. They are not restricted to any one group, nor do they comprise the majority of any group. I am a fairly casual RPer in an MMO. I don't RP often, but when the mood strikes, I will RP with willing RP participants. I don't do ERP or Furry RP. I avoid those that have "god-like" RP or characters with backstories that *completely violate the canon of the game I am playing in. If we are playing in LotRO, and your character is a half-vampire, half-dragon Jedi, who is the great grandchild of Luke Skywalker, that fell through a wormhole and landed in Middle Earth... I'm not going to be interested in RPing with you. And that is okay. I am not being a snob or a jerk. I am just choosing who I RP with. Just as a raider may choose not to raid with someone who has never allotted any of his talent points - or allotted them randomly, with no thought as to how they may affect his character's abilities in the game.
In general, I have found RP servers to be filled with much more mature, friendly, helpful players than non-RP servers. There is less leet-speek (which I prefer to avoid) and just a generally better atmosphere, in my experience. If the majority of RPers were as Jaime describes, I would expect my experiences on RP servers to be much worse than they have been.
Not sure what kind of roleplayer I am but let's drill to that a bit more later on. However I have rped with the people whom are refered here. Not drilling on that, I have met sociopaths, cyerists, utterly crazy people. I have also mostly met utterly nice roleplayers. Now, there is mostly allways the elitist group whom dicdate the rules in their "Realm of power."
Drama queen groups: involve everybody in their forced RP plot, you want it or not. Basically they create utterly emotional/godalike dramatic sceene where mostly all good roleplayers are forced to take part due it's emotional impact. One of such cases I remember in wow when this one female demon-vampire belf rper decided to start giving a birth in middle of city... Drama queens are just people whom need to be in middle of the attention. Such group are the people whom desire to be the main character of book, movie or atleast be noticed.
Elitists on the otherhand: Do social rapings, if you don't follow the rules they make sure you don't feel wellcome. In worst cases they make you feel horrible out game and ingame. Usually such people can be found in heart of the roleplay hubs, sadly they too often form the heart of roleplay community.
As said I know great roleplayers. But i know too many really bad ones,elitists,godemoters,drama queens etc. Sad fact is that mmos don't support much more than casual roleplaying. HC roleplay needs rules, that all agree upon, it needs dungeon masters, it needs tools, objects, tools etc.
NOTE; Before you read this you need to notice that I am an asshat when i get pissed.
Yeah so what happened with the woman who was giving a birth? Well at that time my roleplay/raid guild was having a "night off" basically throwing a party for the troops in silverymoon. So I had something around 30-40 people in lvl range off 50-70 in silverymoon. Me and my closest commanders in arms & council were having a glass of wine and discussing about battles ahead. (Raids, instances, forming instance groups to increase our raid strength) Sergant came rushing to us.
Dialoque went like this:
"Sergant Krulax reporting in!"
Commander (who's name i can't remember) asked for reason of the intrustion.
Krulax: "Well.... Sir, you asked that incase something occurs to repport in.."
Commander "Indeed."
Krulax "Well.... There is demon-vampire spawn is giving a birth infront of the pub."
So out of curiosity or something. We left to see what was the comotion about. Once we arrived to sceene, I understood just how sick was the scene. The belf had already given birth with aid of one of our healers. She descriped very accurately what happened. (wont re-produce it here as it was utterly sick) She was basically begging to hold the child so she could eat it, while playing with her thinggies.... Since she was obviously one of the monsters, there was no reason to tolorate it. I told my group to hold upon the child. I ordered "Slayers" (guild's pvp group) To move people away from her.
After brief discussion with my guildies we decided to break the bigest "tabo" and kill her, destroy the guild she was part off, as the guild was filled with similiar nutcases. So we did in roleplay.. Basically we seeked them all and offered them to leave their guild, take part of test to see if their also demon-vampires, or simply take pvp match with one of our guys. Everybody whom tried to god emote out from it got ignore. Everybody whom took pvp match and lost died got ignore and so on forth.
Only problem with that in wow is that you can't kill people in cities, and you can't kill people off for good. She started godemoting and such, but atleast we got her into ignore by most people.Still eventually we kinda wasted effort as they were all drama queens whom didin't respect roleplay of others. People like her/him give rpers a bad name. Btw (S)he got banned for offending behaviour after screenshots to DMs.
So my last words would be: that good roleplay needs better tools than what excists currently.
Kindest regards,
DKW
Heh, nice move DKWFirstborn :-)
Although killing another player IC without their consent is a no-go too in most MMO RP communities, but I can see how the irritation OOCly grew that high that any action seemed better than no action at all and just standing there and letting them go on.
I also think that the first generations of MMO'ers had on average more people who were positive towards or familiar with RP, many of them maybe done or seen PnP RP games like Dungeons & Dragons and such. While later generations like post-WoW launch era had less people among them that 'got' RP, so overall the RP communities are less thriving and actively present than they used to be.
Which makes them also more introvert maybe. Next to that, the actions of many often don't match their words: many RP'ers are often complaining that there's less open RP going on in the gameworld they're in, and that there's far too many non-RP'ers and few RP'ers on the server they're on. But when approached or talked to, a lot of them turn away from new people trying to interact with the RP people, some of them even go so far as mock the person(s) trying into their face or behind their back because of their poor RP skills.
And yes, there are great RP guilds and wonderful roleplayers, but amongst them you also have the elitists, 'lore nazis' and drama queens, a lot of the time those set the tone for those around them in a guild or community. And what's definitely the case is that RP groups are more closed off and less open and extravert than they often think themselves they are.
Often only when you join their guild or are known in the RP community will you be seen and treated as 'one of their own'.
Well, that's my experience anyway :-) I've seen the good and the bad and the common denominators throughout the MMO's I played.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
good read, but its a good read from some one anti-rp. he may say he isnt anti-rp but just reading what he wrotes tells a diffrent story, he is indeed right that the rp rules are strict and stringent, but they are like this because rp is about further emersion into the game, also rp rules are not rules and should never ever be concidered as rules but more as a helpfull guide from other players that have speant a fair amount of time indulging in rp.
i agree with the op, their are some elitest rp players out their who see them selves as the be all and end all and patriarchs of rp, fact is, these people get it wrong too. they set rules for rp when in fat their are no rules, how can you define the life of a charecter by encloseing it in a little box with a bunch of do not do signs all over the walls. you can not! .
rp is about further story based of the lore of the game and genre of the game, its about the players creation into said lore and what they can add to an already gripping story. as soon as some one comes along and starts chewing you out because your rp isnt about the games story arc then simply tell them yto go screw them selves.
their are role players casual role players hardcore role players and learner role players.
most people fit in under the learner catogory, infact all people do ive been role playing on and off in diffrent games for about 8 years now and well im still learning, their is alwqays something some one else can show you in rp that you have never seen before,
then you get the casual role players, these are not realy role players, they are socialists who like to make friends with as many people as they can and indulge in all aspects of all games which is fine, i for one enjoy these people cause they mix it up a little too. one minute they are their and knee deep in rp turmoil the next, they are no where, as if like magic and then a week or two later they are back in the mix trying to catch up playing the old ive been kidnapped card or was sent of on a mission number lol. thing is it works with normal role players who stay in charecter and accept the fun party of screwing up.
casual role players tend to have a prefered location to meet up to ensure they can endulge with each other in an rp sence within the game, for example lord of the rings online, its main rp area for casual role players is the pranceing pony in bree town, if your new to rp and wanna get involved quickly then this is the place to start. this is the rp log in lobby for casual role players. your are pretty much gaurenteed some rp if you go here. every one knows this is the rp centre of lotro.
a true role player is indiffrent to every type of person in the game, they care not for external debates or who pisses who off the most, the fact is when hes playing the game he's playing his charecter. and he will remain in charecter for 90% of the time he is online. he wont god mod or god emote or anything like that, you wont find him at the pranceing pony either, infact this type of role player will be very difficult to find . they are usualy off questing in the game world solo and acting like they are alone in the game world while they are alone in the game world, these people know nothing of world chat spam or private tells to arrange an rp meeting or event. it doesnt happen!.
instead they mind their own business until they cross paths with another player, at this point their identity becomes clear, when you find one of these players it will be like opening the first pages of an epic fantasy story. an interactive story that you can participate in and if you have the time and patience and will, maybe you can be one of this stories main charecters and see it right through to the end and help the role player you just met to write this book.
meeting these kinds of role players are probably the best kinds of lessons you can have in rp, they wont tell you a bunch of rule or make you stick to said lore, they will do it how they do it and keep them selves to them selves. they are flawless in their ways and have dignitiy and manners. sure if you go upto one and call him by his first name without a formal introduction he will more than likely not respond and pretend your not talking to him, because in reality we dont have our names hanging above our heads for people to see, so he uses that ingame too. introduce your self to some one you think is an rp enthusiast and the results will be good. (not all rp players are elitest jerks, those that are dont really know how to role play)
hardcore role players are just people who like the sound of the selves and want to be known among the entire rp community, a little like your pvp elitests that want their name at the top of the ranks and will cheat to get their if they have to, i advise to avoid these types, their not good for game experience. a hard core role player is the one that wil preach rules and lore to you and use emotes to describe everything even his thoughts.. i mean come on!! how the hell do you describe a though with an emotion ??? hes putting his thoughts into words as an emotion, thats not rp lol it doesnt even sound right and if it was real wouldnt even be possible. so why do they do it ?? the answer is simple, they are so into them selves and love their play style and assume they are one of the best in the game at said play styles its gone slightly to their head, these people have no room for anyone other than them selves, they will find coflict with every type of role player their is and conflict with every single type of game play style, they believe the game should be 100% rp while not role playing properly them selves. and i say propeprly in the lightest of manners. there is no exact or propper way to rp just a few vague guide lines and a few do's and dont's.
a realy good role player will welcome all people into the community and help if asked to help to understand certain aspects of rp, its juts not right to go round telling people how to play the game, sure some people simply cannot grasp the concept of rp and will never truely beable to rp in the game with role players. some role players, usualy the pricks will let them know they blow at rp and exclude them, while others will not say a word and continue to uphold their own personal high rp standards and hope the new comers pick it up along the way.
i learnt to rp by jumping in at the deep end and as the op states, their are some pretty terrible people who love nothing but putting people down, a bit like the types that rib people for poor spellings with no knowledge of who they are where they come from and any learning disabilities they have. so what i did was rp for a couple of years in a private nwn server with some people that refered to them selves as good role players and strict server rules that complimented rp. this was great! i dont think i have ever played another game this way before and i still love it to this day. the rules where inplace to make the game world seem that little bit more realistic, and i think we can all agree nwn wasnt very realistic lol and looked pretty crap. but the server rules for rp changed all that. couldnt do world shouts couldnt arrange groups from other sides of the game world, all meetings must be rp'ed all groups formed must be rp'ed and every one was to remain in charecter 100% of the time at all times even when tradeing. they did however have this little rooms called ooc rooms. this si where people used to go for cig breaks and to just talk ooc to each other on friendly terms.
just think, would you go to a golf course and start playing cricket ?? no you wouldnt you would go to a cricket pitch to play cricket, the same respect applies with rp. in games. if you see people role playing and your not role playing or have no intention of role playing. leave them be or sit silently and listen in and see what they are doing, if you feel liek getting involved then please do so, they will welcome you, unless they are the elitest jerk types then in which case ill appologise upfront for.
rp is suppose to be further emersion intot he games theme. its supposed to be extra fun and another way to play the game, not a cult or club thats only open to exclusive members. rp is about interaction with othe rpeople and creating qaulity player content. nothing more.
i used to be a full time role player but there simply isnt enough decent folk around that rp to do it full time in an mmorpg. most people prefer casual rp as they can switch and swap between game styles, this basically means rp emersion is very limited in its content scale and availability in online game serves.
so yea if you find any people that are being egotistical jerks and trying to pitch you a bunch or rp rules that are fact, just tell them to go away or report them for harrasment.
its an mmorpg, sure rp is a great littel feature if its done propperly, but most of the time its just run by a bunch of fools that dont really understand the meaning of rp community. the key word being community.
one sec... im just loling at the thought of rp law and rules. so funny to think people are so arrogant to create their own rules and laws for something so universal. i just ignore these types of role players or report them and im a role player lol. i concider myself to be a pretty competent rp player too. but there is no way on earth would i ever preach rp rules lol to any one. that would be like telling some one they cant talk rubbish in the street or they must speak in the correct manner to the lady behind the counter at the drug store! its just not cool.
none guilded role players are the best types to meet, they are open to all wont mock you and just want to rp everything they do ingame, they also have a better fairness policy too as they prefer story and emeersion over knocking the crap out of some one in words.
joining an rp guilg is like being cattle stamped, your part of that herd and your farmer will protect you no matter what, only your herd can be in your field.
rp guilds are what ruin rp, they turn soemthing friendly fun and imaginitive into, rules lore and law. with this follows, anger, lies, treachery, back stbbing, hate mails, trash talk, petty wish wash, facism, and ultimately turns decent honest gamers into jerks.
its because of guilds, rp is no longer open, how can rp be open if you have to join a guild to rp??? guilds are formed by elitests who want only their rules in their own little community for their own cultists. rp confined to small amounts of people like that of a guild and that completely expell all outside iteraction with the rest of the gameing community is just failed rp as far as im concerned. thats not role play. thats elitism!! thats trying to be something no one else can be or wants to be, thats god modding its meta gameing itsa many things that dont work with rp. lmao guilds confine themselves away from the genral community because they have no tolerance for role players who dont take it too far.
rp is supposed to be and open and freeform, not governed by rules or players who think they are better than others. its not about who can and cannot spell propperly or who uses the correct grammer. these are all petty things some people have problems with and should simply not be aloud near an rp community. these people fail to aknowledge that their is indeed people with learning disabilities who like to play video games too. people with dyslexia and so on. not every one has univercity degree's in english. hell ive seen english rp elites slate geram role players trying to rp in english. and i was embarressed from their actions.. they was mocking german role players because their english was bad their spellings wrong and grammer was hidious!! these types of people should recieve ip bans so they can never be aloud back in the game again.
all games should have policed rp servers i think, with fair mods who know the fundamental basics of civilised behavior among a population of people. haver guide lines and a few does and donts to help guide newbies and a noob area so they can learn the basics of rp in a speicial little are where players tagged as helpers can help guide them to rp fame.
just the thought of hearing some one and seeing someone speak of them selves as good rp or acting like thet are great at what they do makes my skin crawl. noe one is perfect at rp, you cant be perfect at rp, its impossible, rp is a game style its a way of playing like pvp or pve or exploration or tradeing or crafting. lmao not like hocky football or tennis. their is no pro role players, any one that claims to be pro should realy sit down and have little think about it.
rp is open to all, every one is welcome to try it and get involved in rp. some people wont be able to grasp the concept and wont get any fun from rp and some will. and any one that tries to victimise another for lack of rp experience needs to be segregated from the community indefinately untill they obtain some personality traits and civil skills.
well to kil their guild you would have to god emote it in the first place, and to force them to use emotes to get out of dieing by putting them on ignore was also god emoteing too.. this is the exact elitest attidude people dont want to see in rp.. im sorry sir but your a good example of how not to rp.. your guild clearly has its own very strickt rp polocies and rules that only apply to your guild and not the greater community. you basically dictate the out come of other peoples rp by breaking your own so called rules and tabo's. not very smart
sure what they was role playing wa ssprobably disgusting and off plot slightly for a game enviroment, but thats not really for another plaayer to decide or punish for.. thats why you have the option to report players for conduct.
you just openely admitted to being the type of role player no body wants to see. well done buddy!!
because you dont know what the difference between rp and none-rp is actualy the difrence between them lol. the diffrence is you dont know what the diffrence is. am i makeing sence to you ? i suspect not
This article really does go too far in trying to malign RPers in general. It is a poor article and, as others have said, reads like something that was written in anger due to recent events. You've written about everything negative about RPing that you could think of, and almost nothing positive.
It's not something i am exactly proud off, it's not something that should be done in any circumstances. But then again whatever one does it offends somebody. If you too critical somebody disagrees if to agreeing/positive somebody disagrees. Often in insulting way. Our actions could be concidered as stealing one's freedom of choice.
But what comes to the type of roleplayer I am?
Let me illuminate my position as guild leader in such situation, I had in my command the largest roleplay/raid guild upon the server. I believe that guild leader needs to have level head and calm nature in any stresfull cirumstances. Not even the wiesest person is a good leader if he can't controll his emotions. We could say that a leader is required to take drastic mesures to ensure his guild members that their in good hands.
In my view: The person, broke rules of the server and the eula with her beahviour. I could just have ignored her, but in such situation where there are 50 people, you can't decide that the situation doesn't occur when it does. So can I ignore situation if my guild & others don't? Answer is simply a NO as majority reacted to situation I was forced to do so aswell. Most people were absolutely furious, I did break role for sake of rules and said that he/she is breaking rules.
However as even then my actions/words offended somebody. I was in position to make the call, to take the action. What do you choose, your own morale screams deciding to report and ignore. Others didin't think so. I could have used my leader's power to ask people to ignore however, I decided to be loyal to roleplay and others.
So I did what was required, took the action. In terms of roleplay, everybody refered her/him as monster. In such fantasy setting, monsters die. Even city guard would killed the monster, so in the setting's spirit. It was radical action however that's something I deemed nessasserry. So is the right choice to ignore every situation of not my liking?
If this all makes me disgusting/dislikable roleplayer or likable strong figure is for each to decide. Idealist can claim I am wrong, laywer can claim the same, judge might agree with me. In a way there is no right or wrong. Wrong is when one takes law upon his hands, right is when one let's the law deal with situation, but if there is no laws or rules that dicate what is illeagall? Perhaps roleplay lore nazis are right, as they set the tight rules? Perhaps it's the casualists whom are right? In the end of the day everybody lost in that situation.
A reason why I brought up the rules and tools, is simply the fact that roleplay situations often dictate you to grey area that is between good taste and straightout against the rules. I personally believe that I did the right thing, made the right call. As people become bloodhungry pack of mindless beasts when their safe heaven is stepped one.
In other words, all is about point of view. But in the end of the day, what is really right? to allow one roleplayer to ruin it for 50 others, or do as the 50 believe to be right? I have no preset layer of answers for that question.
But please don't judge me upon one opinnion or one action.
Kindest regards,
DKW
Well, Disdena (and others), the Subject title was "Cult of (Multiple) personality" not "RP in MMO's the goods and the bads".
Or as the opening sentence on the news-page says:
"MMORPG.com's Jaime Skelton uses her Player Perspectives column this week to talk about the darker side of the role-playing sub-culture in MMOs."
Really, after that sentence how could you not have expected the focus to be on the darker or more frowned-upon/annoying aspects of RP?
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Now, as a guild leader of an RP guild, I have to work hard to provide a friendly, drama-lite environment for the people in my guild, and this usually means vetting candidates very thoroughly on top of their application. I have everything from silly RP'ers to very serious types, and some hard core types along with raiders, but because my main criteria is a. did your mama teach you manners? and b. Do you attract drama or repel it? and c. Are you nice? Everyone pretty much gets along. Sort of. Most of the time. Hah hah
I don't know if that's snobby or not, but I've had members come from other guilds and RP experiences who had pretty much been beaten and bullied to a pulp. I've had to tell people to leave my guild who have gotten so caught up in their own sense of importance that they were bullying other guild members, and I've turned away RP'ers who were so snobby they thought they would 'fix' my guild.
It says a lot about a community when you and a few of the other guild leaders see their jobs as providing 'safe havens' for people. The entire community isn't necessarily this way, but there are enough danger zones that it can be scary for a new player who really only wants to join in and have fun. I've developed a new appreciation for my boss at work when she's had to fire someone, because my main job in game is to act as a kind of peace keeper and facilitator of fun. When I see drama stirring, I make no apologies for quashing it with a giant hammer.
I hope you don't think I'm nitpicking at semantics here, but in order to have a "darker side", there would have to be a light side. What Jamie has written goes a long way in trying to prove that there is no light side. She went past the point of claiming "there's a light side and darker side to RP, here's the darker side" and well into "all RP is bad" territory.
Don't be fooled: it's also a quiet lie.
Here, she's talking about what she just described in the previous paragraph: roleplayers who explain the ins-and-outs of RP, publicly RP, and invite others to join in for fun. Even if you accept the rest of her article — that hardcore RPers are bad because they are elitist, cliquish, and "full of vitriol" — it doesn't make any sense to malign the people who are encouraging RP in a way that anyone would approve of. She takes the people who gently instruct, encourage, and host welcome-all events, and accuses them of being a lie. Not misleading, not a rare exception, and not naive about the actions of their roleplaying peers. A lie. She claims that people who RP in an acceptable way, the people on what you could otherwise call the lighter side of the role-playing sub-culture, have ill motives at heart and are acting kind and welcoming only as a deception. She flatly denies that a lighter side of RP can exist at all.
There are three basic groups: the casuals, the rule-breakers, and the hardcore. Casual role-players (aka "softcore") are the majority group. This is a catch-all term that includes players who may only role-play once in a while, to those that role-play on a more regular basis but are a little more relaxed to the 'rules.' They may be the ones who do things simply because it's something else to do between waiting on a dungeon or engaging in PvP, or while they're doing other things. It's simple enjoyment to them, and they generally don't care how other people might view them.
There's no need for me to break down the last two groups that she mentions, as she describes them as evil-incarnate. But in glossing over casuals, she reveals the depth of her convictions that the dark side of RP is the only side. She says that casual RPers are the softcore ones, people who either do not roleplay all the time, or who do not follow the supposedly sacred cardinal rules. As there are only three groups that she thinks roleplayers fall into, the only way to avoid being classified as a bad one is to not roleplay all the time, or to roleplay the wrong way. Phrased another way, if you are in character more than occasionally and you follow commonsense RP conventions, you are automatically a blight on the server community. This is another flat denial that there can be a good side to RP; the only way to do it right is to do it wrong or to hardly do it at all.
I could go on but there's no need. Enough people have already seen (and commented) that this is a vindictive article containing a lot of generalizations that have no basis in fact. Jamie has no shame in playing armchair psychiatrist, laying on plenty of loaded phrases like "the fake lives they're leading", "their sudden, secret emotional needs", "dwell in a fantasy world", "turning away others to feel better about themselves". For shame. The claims that she makes about cliquish hardcore RPers turning on their friends are so outlandish and so bizarrely specific (especially towards the end) that I really can't help playing psychiatrist myself and claiming that she's talking about actual events that recently happened to her personally and have nothing to do with the rest of the RP community on that server, in that game, or anywhere in MMOs.
I don't believe a dedicated server is neccesary. The group you are with determines how much you role-play, some wan't to role-p[ay as if they were King Kear, others just wan't to go out and wack something.. If you match your play style to that of the rest of your team, It has been my experience, being flexable, keeps the fun going with out the Drama.some seem to thrive on.
Most games require cooperation of players to achieve goals. "We must hang together or surly we will hang seperatly." Ben Franklin.
In my worlld, games are played untill they stop being fun..If I am not enjoying the game, why keep playiing..
It doesn't have to focus on the positive side of things, but the article is using a broad brush to try and paint most roleplayers that way. You can talk about the problem people in roleplaying communities without implying that most (if not all) are like that.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I got about halfway through the comments and had to quote this one. How many RP guilds have I jooined only to see (()) around everything they /s, /g, /t, and /gu. Then there was the incessant RP in /gu even though we were all on opposite ends of the game world. Yeah, my toon is fighting for her life right now, not sitting in the guild's imaginary lounge.
So what kind of RPer am I? I like playing my character as it exists in game. That's not just guild chat or RP events, that's with the choices it makes.
It's funny that I've experienced players that griefed RPers, but not the other way around...
TSW, LotRO, EQ2, SWTOR, GW2, V:SoH, Neverwinter, ArchAge, EQ, UO, DAoC, WAR, DDO, AoC, MO, BDO, SotA, B&S, ESO,
Not all roleplaying communities are like that. WoW's is, though. Definitely.
Lol. Stick to reviewing games and leave the hard-hitting journalism to the pulitzer prize winners, please.