Only a dedicated healer could mittigate enough damage to stop a spike kill in GW. Removing that dedicated healer, you need to either provide such capabilities to a nother person (which will be way too unbalanced) or remove the ability to spike which will be way too boring.
I dont see how you remove that character from the game.
If you go to their website, like the front page, they have this image of a priest-like character holding a staff with a crest and with an outfit similar to priest. I think they are going to have a healer class just based on that lol xD
I rather like the idea of multiple healer classes with maybe not equal healign ability but strong healign ability each with pros and cons in other areas (buffing, cc, etc. You don't need the best healer if your rather good healer can cc the junk out of the other team, or give very nice buffs etc.)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I really hope the developers come up with an innovative solution for this issue.
From reading the responses in this thread, we have two main schools of thought:
1.) Healing, as an extension of defense, is necessary for a balanced engagement in either PVP or PVE to counter offense. As such, it is a crucially important role, therefore making any class with Healing capabilities a comodity. Limiting this role to one class would then increase the need for this class, and create a forced synergy between classes in order to form successful groups. This is often refered to as the holy trinity.
2.) Healing, as a form of game play, is highly enjoyable and engaging for some people. As such, the exclusion of their primary method of play is obviously not enjoyable to them. In that same vein, some players what as little to do with healing as they can manage, as it is not their prefered play style.
I find that healing is best evaluated as reverse damage. How many classes are capable of producing damage? All of them. How many classes are (traditionally) able to reverse this damage? Ususally less than 25% of the available classes (if you go by the traditional Tank/ Ranged Damage / Melee Damage / Healer scheme).
Taking what we know, each class will have at least one slot dedicated toward "healing" in some form, but the way that this slot is utilized could be drastically different between and within a given class.
For example, we know a little bit about how an Elementalist can use his healing slot. He can either place a dedicated healing ability that simply self heals, OR he can place a passive ability that heals him some unknown (but presumably minor) ammount each time he casts a spell.
If they continue this type of set up with each class, while also including at least two classes with healing capability, then it would likely appease both of the previously stated camps of thought.
We also know that the developers are working on syngergising many abilities between classes, such as the "projectiles passing through a fire wall deal additional damage" or "warrior using whirlwind while inside of a firewall forces it to lash out at foes around him." This could be applied to healing as well, causing healing to become a multi-class focused activity that could have really interesting rewards if players coordinate well.
My hope is this:
1.) We have at least one class + race combination that *can* focus on healing from range exclusively, but that the way that they heal is at least in part tied to some offensive action (and that they dont need to specialize in their various roles so that they will have the freedome to adapt as needed). This would be very simple to do if they adapt the Monk class to a melee-range healing role depending on how the player wants to play. One could build the role as a melee healer, ranged healer, or any mix inbetween depending on what skills you pick.
2.) I hope that we have at least two healer-focused capable classes to provide the minimum 25% "healer" bracket, as 2/8 classes would be able to function primarily as healers. My hope is that we have one healer who is the traditional "scholarly" type, aka the Monk, and that the second healer falls under the "heavy armor" or "adventure" type theme. Either way, I hope both classes have plenty of non-healing abilities to diversify their roles. Life-tapping to others, simultaneous buffs/debuffs between foes and allies, dealing damage to build up for a stronger heal, etc.
3.) Finally, I hope that healing + defense in this game will in total balance out with the damage generating potential. This means that 4 classes will need some focus in either defense or healing, or at least be heavily scewed in that direction, while the remaining 4 classes will be scewed in the other direction.
It might be best to look at it in a continum:
Each class would have its "minimum-maximum potential" in either:
Defense
Healing
Damage
Enhancement / Disabling (that effects any of the above three)
Then you could add a second layer in regards to Self or Other, and Single or Multiple targets. This type of scheme could prove interesting for making a balanced class spread.
(the following could be the general schemes for classes based on this type of spread, just as a model, not perfect!)
NOTE that the classes thare are "highest" in one area tend to be shallow in the other areas, while classes that are simply High in a few areas tend to be more well rounded, such as the Ranger.
High Single target Damageand Multi Target Enhancement
Moderate Single Target Healing and Moderate Multi and Single Target Disabling
Low to Moderate defense
If they approach class design like this, then maybe we can find a good balance for our healing-minded folks without making them an absolute requirement.
May I remind everyone that afaik every class in GW1 has some sort of self-heal skill. Not sure if it's really all of them, as I haven't played them all myself, however it's definitely the vast majority of them.
So if the "one slot reserved for heals" means anything about healing class(es) it's most likely that the healing capability of them will be downgraded a bit (which is good as it could drag out fights a lot longer than it should have).
I can't believe how silly people are getting over this. First off they already stated that the "healing skills" dedicated slot would be something similar to the self-healing skills already available.
Remember the Troll Unguent for the Ranger? That would be a healing skill.
Remember the warrior's healing signet? That would be a healing skill.
Remember the Aura of Restoration? That would be a healing skill.
You have to realize that healing skills does not mean something like the old monks' Orison of Healing. It merely means a skill that could be remotely considered a healing skill. That would include some skills like the Blood Renewal (HP Regen at the cost of % HP) or Blood Ritual (Energy Regen).
Nearly every class had some form of healing already in GW1, don't know why people are acting all stupid over this new setup. If anyone here ever played LOTRO you'll see that Turbine (WB) gave each class some self-healing for the most part, it may not have been significant, but it was there. You still had to rely upon healing classes though.
Seriously people read the dev diaries more before you go act all chicken little.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
I really hope the developers come up with an innovative solution for this issue.
From reading the responses in this thread, we have two main schools of thought:
1.) Healing, as an extension of defense, is necessary for a balanced engagement in either PVP or PVE to counter offense. As such, it is a crucially important role, therefore making any class with Healing capabilities a comodity. Limiting this role to one class would then increase the need for this class, and create a forced synergy between classes in order to form successful groups. This is often refered to as the holy trinity.
2.) Healing, as a form of game play, is highly enjoyable and engaging for some people. As such, the exclusion of their primary method of play is obviously not enjoyable to them. In that same vein, some players what as little to do with healing as they can manage, as it is not their prefered play style.
While I see what you are saying in your post, and how the idea of merging the ranger and monk together would be cool, I am looking at this from a totally diffrent perspective. Lets say what if GW2 did not have a dedicated healer like the monk and instead focused on alternative ways to heal. Like they already announced with the Elementalist, that when you are attuned to water you heal. With that mechanic they could set it up so they people that like healers get the joy of helping other people with out having a dedicated healer role. In fact they could do this with maybe 2 or 3 classes to add in that dynamic with out ever making a dedicated healer. To me it is more of the fact that I want to see something innovative from a MMO developer that gets rid of the dependence on a healer class, and a tank class. Other wise I can sum up ever MMO for the next 10 years in a few words, PST looking for healer (cleric, priest, monk). With all the joys of setting in a socialhub spammng that over and over again while you look for a group. Or the fun of making one of your group role the dedicated healer so you do not have to pug. Oh yes it is so much fun to force a class on the players, you either have this or you fail. Oh joy oh joy....slitwrist.
Getting rid of healing classes is the only way they will get rid of the holy trinity (which I loathe by the way). So I HOPE there will be no dedicated healer class.
But here's possible evidence that there will NOT be healing classes:
The gods have left Tyria, so a monk/priest class would be EXTREMELY unlikely. Especially so with the fact that Charr are atheists, Sylvari love trees not gods, Asura have religion not to dissimilar to Buddhism and Norn worship animals. The only race that would rightfully be eligible for a priest-like class would be Humans, and since every race can play as any class, a monk class probably wont happen. However, this doesn't necessarily destroy the possibility of a different type of healer.
Since everyone has their own healing abilities, a healer class would almost be redundant. Why give something to someone if they already have it?
Also, if you chose a healer class, what would you put in your dedicated healing skill slot? A damaging skill? Since the first 5 skills on the skill bar are damaging skills based on your weapon, 5 damaging spells for a healer would be completely pointless.
ArenaNet has said (I'm probably paraphrasing) that "If you don't like traditional MMORPGs, you'll love Guild Wars 2". Since the holy trinity (healer, DPS and tank) is such important part to building traditional MMOs, removing it would certainly help Guild Wars 2 set itself from the crowd.
Now all this doesn't mean that someone can assume the role of a healer, but I really think ArenaNet is trying to make each class flexible, yet unique. How they will go about doing that exactly, I'm not sure.
I could be wrong, but it seems that most of the information they've released goes against the possibility healer class. Dedicated healing slots, atheistic Charr and the absence of gods and Tyria make a healer class a hard thing to argue for.
But please, for the love of God, don't say the following things
"The lack of a dedicated healer class will lead to...
"...less strategy in combat."
"...easy-mode combat."
"...less character customization."
"...less fun combat."
"...me killing a puppy because I will have a nerd rage-gasm if they don't include a healer class."
While they can potentially lead to ALL of these things (especially that last one), saying they WILL is like saying before sex "I bet if I didn't wear a condom, and if you didn't take your pill, the baby we would have would definitely be a hermaphrodite with down syndrome". It probably wouldn't happen, and it's too early to tell anyway.
"I bet if I didn't wear a condom, and if you didn't take your pill, the baby we would have would definitely be a hermaphrodite with down syndrome". It probably wouldn't happen, and it's too early to tell anyway.
Yea, but you can't deny that there WILL be a baby. Doesn't matter if it has down syndrome or not. Using a silly analogy, you can expect to get a silly answer.
Please refer to my post up above. I stated that the developer diaries already cited very loose examples of "healing skills". Healing skills in GW2 will refer to any skills that buff a character in some way. So the possibility of a healing class is still very much possible. I'm not at all adverse to having them break the mold. But you have to realize since the dawn of roleplaying games there has ALWAYS been some sort of class that support based. Even if you don't have any direct healing skills and it's all protection based spells...you still will have a support class, and that support class will become "required" for groups. Even if its a class that does nothing but buff your damage and defense by 25% or something silly like that.
Whether it's buffs or healing, a support class will always be required.
In my opinion healing wouldn't be so "overpowered" as everyone thinks if MMO's started to bring back crowd control (within moderation). One of my favorite classes to play in LOTRO was a Loremaster, until they nerfed the crowd control capabilities of the class. Everyone whines that "I can't control my character, it's unfair" (In pvp). Well, don't play solo then I say. Anyways, the holy trinity could be made more exciting if people stopped acting like solo playing carebears and realized the point of MMO's is to group. Once they realize that they can make tons of awsome and unique directions for classes to go. But until then they have to cater to all the solo players.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
"I bet if I didn't wear a condom, and if you didn't take your pill, the baby we would have would definitely be a hermaphrodite with down syndrome". It probably wouldn't happen, and it's too early to tell anyway.
Yea, but you can't deny that there WILL be a baby. Doesn't matter if it has down syndrome or not. Using a silly analogy, you can expect to get a silly answer.
Wrong. With such adverse odds, that kid will be a freakin' SUPERMAN. Only the strong survive.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
"I bet if I didn't wear a condom, and if you didn't take your pill, the baby we would have would definitely be a hermaphrodite with down syndrome". It probably wouldn't happen, and it's too early to tell anyway.
Yea, but you can't deny that there WILL be a baby. Doesn't matter if it has down syndrome or not. Using a silly analogy, you can expect to get a silly answer.
Wrong. With such adverse odds, that kid will be a freakin' SUPERMAN. Only the strong survive.
Haha Quirhid. Just noticed your sig. You stole that from Yahtzee!
I miss Tabula Rasa, would have been a great game if they had put a little more time and effort into it... I still have it installed on my computer so I can launch the game and look at the loading screen and reminesce.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
GW2Guru: It’s been implied that there may not be a ‘dedicated healer’ class in the game. Is that a role that some classes will excel at filling, or will that form of defense be spread across a team?
Isaiah Cartwright – Game Designer: Healing in GW2 is different from most other MMO’s. One of our goals is that you should always be happy to see other players and this shouldn’t change based on their profession, race, skill choices, or anything else. Which means each player needs to be slightly more self sufficient so that one particular profession is not required to do any given type of content. It’s why we made the healing slot a required part of the skill bar. It allows us to make the heal skill powerful enough so players can take care of themselves. There will still be ways to support your allies and some professions will specialize in support but no single profession is always required.
I highly doubt that we are going to see any racial bias as far as builds go. If for example I want some healing support I’m not going to look for a sylvari character (even though they have more in the way of racial healing skills than other races), I’m going to look for an elementalist or one of the other GW2 support professions. If I happened to get a sylvari warrior in my group and he brought some heals, that would be a bonus but he’d be sacrificing some damage or survivability, and not healing as well as an elementalist in water attunement would.
Well looks super interesting. Up until this point we did not know if a Water Attuned Elementalist was able to heal OTHER people (beyond the self-healing described in other segments or their small AE auto-healing from their Water Attunement stance), but I believe this confirms that an elementalist will have the tools, in their Water Attunement, to heal and support others.
I'm quite thrilled to here this, as I could love healer-capable classes that are role-flexible. Though I highly doubt any kind of "attunement specialization" will be in place, I totally see myself rocking the Water/Air attunement swaping
No dedicated healer but there is specualtion that there will be a class that uses protection prayers.
My prediction is that it will be a heavy armored cleric/paragon type class. Uses shouts and protection prayers as support.
Quite possible indeed. Everyone wil get a self heal slot and elementalists who attune themselves to water magic can use some sort of healing spells. I'm glad there will be no more healbots in Guild Wars.
No dedicated healer but there is specualtion that there will be a class that uses protection prayers.
My prediction is that it will be a heavy armored cleric/paragon type class. Uses shouts and protection prayers as support.
Quite possible indeed. Everyone wil get a self heal slot and elementalists who attune themselves to water magic can use some sort of healing spells. I'm glad there will be no more healbots in Guild Wars.
Fantastic. Now what do we do about the mage-bots. All they need to do to continue to homoginize character roles and take the role out of role-play is allow me to dual-wield, take on fire and water magic, and wear heavy armor without penalty. Yay?
There will be a class race combination that will be more focused on healing but will self heals and weapon skills, there just would not be an overreliance on monks. Even if there are monks, they wont be as needed as before. So my bet is there should be some kind of healing class but perhaps not as vital as before. But i still feel there wont be any monks, mayb Ele Sylvari can come up with a good healing template. But with weapon skills? I just cant imagine a through and through dedicated healer. If there is it wont be as powerful as GW1's monk
No dedicated healer but there is specualtion that there will be a class that uses protection prayers.
My prediction is that it will be a heavy armored cleric/paragon type class. Uses shouts and protection prayers as support.
Quite possible indeed. Everyone wil get a self heal slot and elementalists who attune themselves to water magic can use some sort of healing spells. I'm glad there will be no more healbots in Guild Wars.
Fantastic. Now what do we do about the mage-bots. All they need to do to continue to homoginize character roles and take the role out of role-play is allow me to dual-wield, take on fire and water magic, and wear heavy armor without penalty. Yay?
Lol nice sarcasm... man you must really be butt hurt... The one tiny weeny problem with your idea is you didn't necessarily need mages but you did need monks making them pretty much the most important profession even causing some teams to fail due to lack of one.
But hey some people just like to moan over things even when there's a good reason why they're doing what their doing.
I'm glad there's no dedicated healer, and according to Arenanet, you don't even need one!
I don't know why people would be mad just because they can't sit in the background and click on their team members names and heal them.
Also, if everyone can heal themselves there really is no need for one. An example of where this has actually worked would be the gamecube rpg Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles. It's multiplayer up to 4 people, there's 4 races, each with special qualities, like yukes are good with magic, clavats can use swords well, etc. Well, in this game you can also go all by yourself, so since you can do this you need a form of healing yourself, so everyone can use magic (not saying everyone can use magic in gw2 tho). And to do magic you need these little magic balls. One of them is called a cure, and you can use it as many times as you want. Well when your playing with 4 people and everyone has the ability to heal them selves with a cure, then no one needs to be a specified healer. That way, everyone can fight and have fun and have the ability to keep themselves alive, hm, kind of sounds like Guild Wars 2 huh?
No offence to those who love healing people (though I don't get why) but you don't need it and it probably would be pretty useless in Guild Wars 2.
I'm a PvP acfficionado and I rather like classes to have particular roles that offer synergies and interesting group tactics...
I understand how tank-healer-dps can get tired in PvE but in PvP it does make sense. For example, I really love the way WAR classes work together in PvP - especially the tank mechanics.
IMO PvE, due to its predictability, always lends itself to "ideal" group composition. PvP on the other hand can afford highly specialized classes - and highly diversified groups. One group composition might work well against one enemy group or totally catastrophically bad against another. For example a bunch of tanks will devastate melee dps.. while the squishy dps in turn will butcher a healer group and so on.. What I'm trying to say is that in PvP you can get with much more specialization and diversification, both individually and in groups than in PvE (if you want to keep it interesting and challenging that is).
We'll see how they do this. I hope they make enough room for classes to get "specialized" and more group oriented. I love playing a PvP tank in WAR, for example. I can't kill shit but I can soak up enormous amounts of damage and annoy the hell out of the opposition - saving my squishies and breaking up enemy lines. Alone I'm totally crap but in a group synergy I'm worth much more than any jack-of-all-trades class.
Comments
Only a dedicated healer could mittigate enough damage to stop a spike kill in GW. Removing that dedicated healer, you need to either provide such capabilities to a nother person (which will be way too unbalanced) or remove the ability to spike which will be way too boring.
I dont see how you remove that character from the game.
If you go to their website, like the front page, they have this image of a priest-like character holding a staff with a crest and with an outfit similar to priest. I think they are going to have a healer class just based on that lol xD
I rather like the idea of multiple healer classes with maybe not equal healign ability but strong healign ability each with pros and cons in other areas (buffing, cc, etc. You don't need the best healer if your rather good healer can cc the junk out of the other team, or give very nice buffs etc.)
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
I really hope the developers come up with an innovative solution for this issue.
From reading the responses in this thread, we have two main schools of thought:
1.) Healing, as an extension of defense, is necessary for a balanced engagement in either PVP or PVE to counter offense. As such, it is a crucially important role, therefore making any class with Healing capabilities a comodity. Limiting this role to one class would then increase the need for this class, and create a forced synergy between classes in order to form successful groups. This is often refered to as the holy trinity.
2.) Healing, as a form of game play, is highly enjoyable and engaging for some people. As such, the exclusion of their primary method of play is obviously not enjoyable to them. In that same vein, some players what as little to do with healing as they can manage, as it is not their prefered play style.
I find that healing is best evaluated as reverse damage. How many classes are capable of producing damage? All of them. How many classes are (traditionally) able to reverse this damage? Ususally less than 25% of the available classes (if you go by the traditional Tank/ Ranged Damage / Melee Damage / Healer scheme).
Taking what we know, each class will have at least one slot dedicated toward "healing" in some form, but the way that this slot is utilized could be drastically different between and within a given class.
For example, we know a little bit about how an Elementalist can use his healing slot. He can either place a dedicated healing ability that simply self heals, OR he can place a passive ability that heals him some unknown (but presumably minor) ammount each time he casts a spell.
If they continue this type of set up with each class, while also including at least two classes with healing capability, then it would likely appease both of the previously stated camps of thought.
We also know that the developers are working on syngergising many abilities between classes, such as the "projectiles passing through a fire wall deal additional damage" or "warrior using whirlwind while inside of a firewall forces it to lash out at foes around him." This could be applied to healing as well, causing healing to become a multi-class focused activity that could have really interesting rewards if players coordinate well.
My hope is this:
1.) We have at least one class + race combination that *can* focus on healing from range exclusively, but that the way that they heal is at least in part tied to some offensive action (and that they dont need to specialize in their various roles so that they will have the freedome to adapt as needed). This would be very simple to do if they adapt the Monk class to a melee-range healing role depending on how the player wants to play. One could build the role as a melee healer, ranged healer, or any mix inbetween depending on what skills you pick.
2.) I hope that we have at least two healer-focused capable classes to provide the minimum 25% "healer" bracket, as 2/8 classes would be able to function primarily as healers. My hope is that we have one healer who is the traditional "scholarly" type, aka the Monk, and that the second healer falls under the "heavy armor" or "adventure" type theme. Either way, I hope both classes have plenty of non-healing abilities to diversify their roles. Life-tapping to others, simultaneous buffs/debuffs between foes and allies, dealing damage to build up for a stronger heal, etc.
3.) Finally, I hope that healing + defense in this game will in total balance out with the damage generating potential. This means that 4 classes will need some focus in either defense or healing, or at least be heavily scewed in that direction, while the remaining 4 classes will be scewed in the other direction.
It might be best to look at it in a continum:
Each class would have its "minimum-maximum potential" in either:
Defense
Healing
Damage
Enhancement / Disabling (that effects any of the above three)
Then you could add a second layer in regards to Self or Other, and Single or Multiple targets. This type of scheme could prove interesting for making a balanced class spread.
(the following could be the general schemes for classes based on this type of spread, just as a model, not perfect!)
NOTE that the classes thare are "highest" in one area tend to be shallow in the other areas, while classes that are simply High in a few areas tend to be more well rounded, such as the Ranger.
Warrior - Defensive > Offensive/Disabling > Enhancement > Healing
Highest Defense potential
Medium to High Single Target Damage / Moderate to High single target Disabiling potential. (cripples and knock down)
Medium multiple target Damage (whirl wind, cleaving blows) / Medium Multi target Enhancement (rallying cries)
Weak self-only Healing potential (endurance-based self healing, regeneration etc.)
Ranger - Offensive > Disabling/Enhancement > Defensive > Healing
High Damage single target potential (sniping with bows/guns) / High single target Disabling potential (traps, single target lock down snares etc.)
Moderate Self and Multitarget Enahncement potential (rangers commonly have some type of enhancement characteristics)
Low to Moderate defense
Low Self-healing potential (ointments), Low multitarget damage potential
Weak other-healing poential (status removing mainly)
Assassin - Offensive > Disabling / Defensive > Healing
Highest Single target damage
Moderate Defense (shadow steping and evasion) and single target disabling
Low to Weak self healing
Monk - Healing > Enhancement > Offensive > Defense
Highest single target healing
High single target Enhancement
Moderate multi target healing / Moderate single target damage / Moderate multi target enhancement
Low to Moderate defense
Druid - Healing > Offensive / Enhancement > Disabling> Defensive
Highest Multi Target healing
High Single target Damageand Multi Target Enhancement
Moderate Single Target Healing and Moderate Multi and Single Target Disabling
Low to Moderate defense
If they approach class design like this, then maybe we can find a good balance for our healing-minded folks without making them an absolute requirement.
Elementalist- Offensive > Disabling > Enhancement/Healing > Defensive
Highest multitarget target damage potential
High single target damage potentia (good old nukes ) / High multitarget Disabiling potential (the ice field snares etc,)
Moderate Self healing / Moderate Self Enhancement
Low to Moderate Single target Disabling
Weak to Low Defense
Mesmer - Disabling> Offense > Healing > Defensive
Highest single target Disabling
Moderate to High Single target damage and Self Healing
Moderate multi target disabling and damage, Moderate Self enhancement
Weak to low Defense
May I remind everyone that afaik every class in GW1 has some sort of self-heal skill. Not sure if it's really all of them, as I haven't played them all myself, however it's definitely the vast majority of them.
So if the "one slot reserved for heals" means anything about healing class(es) it's most likely that the healing capability of them will be downgraded a bit (which is good as it could drag out fights a lot longer than it should have).
My Signature
I can't believe how silly people are getting over this. First off they already stated that the "healing skills" dedicated slot would be something similar to the self-healing skills already available.
Remember the Troll Unguent for the Ranger? That would be a healing skill.
Remember the warrior's healing signet? That would be a healing skill.
Remember the Aura of Restoration? That would be a healing skill.
You have to realize that healing skills does not mean something like the old monks' Orison of Healing. It merely means a skill that could be remotely considered a healing skill. That would include some skills like the Blood Renewal (HP Regen at the cost of % HP) or Blood Ritual (Energy Regen).
Nearly every class had some form of healing already in GW1, don't know why people are acting all stupid over this new setup. If anyone here ever played LOTRO you'll see that Turbine (WB) gave each class some self-healing for the most part, it may not have been significant, but it was there. You still had to rely upon healing classes though.
Seriously people read the dev diaries more before you go act all chicken little.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
Elementalist get healing when attuned to Water Magic.
While I see what you are saying in your post, and how the idea of merging the ranger and monk together would be cool, I am looking at this from a totally diffrent perspective. Lets say what if GW2 did not have a dedicated healer like the monk and instead focused on alternative ways to heal. Like they already announced with the Elementalist, that when you are attuned to water you heal. With that mechanic they could set it up so they people that like healers get the joy of helping other people with out having a dedicated healer role. In fact they could do this with maybe 2 or 3 classes to add in that dynamic with out ever making a dedicated healer. To me it is more of the fact that I want to see something innovative from a MMO developer that gets rid of the dependence on a healer class, and a tank class. Other wise I can sum up ever MMO for the next 10 years in a few words, PST looking for healer (cleric, priest, monk). With all the joys of setting in a socialhub spammng that over and over again while you look for a group. Or the fun of making one of your group role the dedicated healer so you do not have to pug. Oh yes it is so much fun to force a class on the players, you either have this or you fail. Oh joy oh joy....slitwrist.
Getting rid of healing classes is the only way they will get rid of the holy trinity (which I loathe by the way). So I HOPE there will be no dedicated healer class.
But here's possible evidence that there will NOT be healing classes:
The gods have left Tyria, so a monk/priest class would be EXTREMELY unlikely. Especially so with the fact that Charr are atheists, Sylvari love trees not gods, Asura have religion not to dissimilar to Buddhism and Norn worship animals. The only race that would rightfully be eligible for a priest-like class would be Humans, and since every race can play as any class, a monk class probably wont happen. However, this doesn't necessarily destroy the possibility of a different type of healer.
Since everyone has their own healing abilities, a healer class would almost be redundant. Why give something to someone if they already have it?
Also, if you chose a healer class, what would you put in your dedicated healing skill slot? A damaging skill? Since the first 5 skills on the skill bar are damaging skills based on your weapon, 5 damaging spells for a healer would be completely pointless.
ArenaNet has said (I'm probably paraphrasing) that "If you don't like traditional MMORPGs, you'll love Guild Wars 2". Since the holy trinity (healer, DPS and tank) is such important part to building traditional MMOs, removing it would certainly help Guild Wars 2 set itself from the crowd.
Now all this doesn't mean that someone can assume the role of a healer, but I really think ArenaNet is trying to make each class flexible, yet unique. How they will go about doing that exactly, I'm not sure.
I could be wrong, but it seems that most of the information they've released goes against the possibility healer class. Dedicated healing slots, atheistic Charr and the absence of gods and Tyria make a healer class a hard thing to argue for.
But please, for the love of God, don't say the following things
"The lack of a dedicated healer class will lead to...
"...less strategy in combat."
"...easy-mode combat."
"...less character customization."
"...less fun combat."
"...me killing a puppy because I will have a nerd rage-gasm if they don't include a healer class."
While they can potentially lead to ALL of these things (especially that last one), saying they WILL is like saying before sex "I bet if I didn't wear a condom, and if you didn't take your pill, the baby we would have would definitely be a hermaphrodite with down syndrome". It probably wouldn't happen, and it's too early to tell anyway.
This statement is false.
Yea, but you can't deny that there WILL be a baby. Doesn't matter if it has down syndrome or not. Using a silly analogy, you can expect to get a silly answer.
Please refer to my post up above. I stated that the developer diaries already cited very loose examples of "healing skills". Healing skills in GW2 will refer to any skills that buff a character in some way. So the possibility of a healing class is still very much possible. I'm not at all adverse to having them break the mold. But you have to realize since the dawn of roleplaying games there has ALWAYS been some sort of class that support based. Even if you don't have any direct healing skills and it's all protection based spells...you still will have a support class, and that support class will become "required" for groups. Even if its a class that does nothing but buff your damage and defense by 25% or something silly like that.
Whether it's buffs or healing, a support class will always be required.
In my opinion healing wouldn't be so "overpowered" as everyone thinks if MMO's started to bring back crowd control (within moderation). One of my favorite classes to play in LOTRO was a Loremaster, until they nerfed the crowd control capabilities of the class. Everyone whines that "I can't control my character, it's unfair" (In pvp). Well, don't play solo then I say. Anyways, the holy trinity could be made more exciting if people stopped acting like solo playing carebears and realized the point of MMO's is to group. Once they realize that they can make tons of awsome and unique directions for classes to go. But until then they have to cater to all the solo players.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
Wrong. With such adverse odds, that kid will be a freakin' SUPERMAN. Only the strong survive.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Haha Quirhid. Just noticed your sig. You stole that from Yahtzee!
I miss Tabula Rasa, would have been a great game if they had put a little more time and effort into it... I still have it installed on my computer so I can launch the game and look at the loading screen and reminesce.
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
GW2Guru: It’s been implied that there may not be a ‘dedicated healer’ class in the game. Is that a role that some classes will excel at filling, or will that form of defense be spread across a team?
Isaiah Cartwright – Game Designer: Healing in GW2 is different from most other MMO’s. One of our goals is that you should always be happy to see other players and this shouldn’t change based on their profession, race, skill choices, or anything else. Which means each player needs to be slightly more self sufficient so that one particular profession is not required to do any given type of content. It’s why we made the healing slot a required part of the skill bar. It allows us to make the heal skill powerful enough so players can take care of themselves. There will still be ways to support your allies and some professions will specialize in support but no single profession is always required.
I highly doubt that we are going to see any racial bias as far as builds go. If for example I want some healing support I’m not going to look for a sylvari character (even though they have more in the way of racial healing skills than other races), I’m going to look for an elementalist or one of the other GW2 support professions. If I happened to get a sylvari warrior in my group and he brought some heals, that would be a bonus but he’d be sacrificing some damage or survivability, and not healing as well as an elementalist in water attunement would.
Source: http://www.guildwars2guru.com/guild-wars-2-news/interview-with-eric-flannum-isaiah-cartwright-and-ryan-scott/
Well looks super interesting. Up until this point we did not know if a Water Attuned Elementalist was able to heal OTHER people (beyond the self-healing described in other segments or their small AE auto-healing from their Water Attunement stance), but I believe this confirms that an elementalist will have the tools, in their Water Attunement, to heal and support others.
I'm quite thrilled to here this, as I could love healer-capable classes that are role-flexible. Though I highly doubt any kind of "attunement specialization" will be in place, I totally see myself rocking the Water/Air attunement swaping
I expect them to do it like wow because thats pretty much what they are doing when it comes to everything else, like no duel classes etc.
My blog:
Huh?
No dedicated healer but there is specualtion that there will be a class that uses protection prayers.
My prediction is that it will be a heavy armored cleric/paragon type class. Uses shouts and protection prayers as support.
Quite possible indeed. Everyone wil get a self heal slot and elementalists who attune themselves to water magic can use some sort of healing spells. I'm glad there will be no more healbots in Guild Wars.
Fantastic. Now what do we do about the mage-bots. All they need to do to continue to homoginize character roles and take the role out of role-play is allow me to dual-wield, take on fire and water magic, and wear heavy armor without penalty. Yay?
There will be a class race combination that will be more focused on healing but will self heals and weapon skills, there just would not be an overreliance on monks. Even if there are monks, they wont be as needed as before. So my bet is there should be some kind of healing class but perhaps not as vital as before. But i still feel there wont be any monks, mayb Ele Sylvari can come up with a good healing template. But with weapon skills? I just cant imagine a through and through dedicated healer. If there is it wont be as powerful as GW1's monk
Lol nice sarcasm... man you must really be butt hurt... The one tiny weeny problem with your idea is you didn't necessarily need mages but you did need monks making them pretty much the most important profession even causing some teams to fail due to lack of one.
But hey some people just like to moan over things even when there's a good reason why they're doing what their doing.
In Guild Wars you can do without a tank but you could never do without a healer.
I'm glad there's no dedicated healer, and according to Arenanet, you don't even need one!
I don't know why people would be mad just because they can't sit in the background and click on their team members names and heal them.
Also, if everyone can heal themselves there really is no need for one. An example of where this has actually worked would be the gamecube rpg Final Fantasy: Crystal Chronicles. It's multiplayer up to 4 people, there's 4 races, each with special qualities, like yukes are good with magic, clavats can use swords well, etc. Well, in this game you can also go all by yourself, so since you can do this you need a form of healing yourself, so everyone can use magic (not saying everyone can use magic in gw2 tho). And to do magic you need these little magic balls. One of them is called a cure, and you can use it as many times as you want. Well when your playing with 4 people and everyone has the ability to heal them selves with a cure, then no one needs to be a specified healer. That way, everyone can fight and have fun and have the ability to keep themselves alive, hm, kind of sounds like Guild Wars 2 huh?
No offence to those who love healing people (though I don't get why) but you don't need it and it probably would be pretty useless in Guild Wars 2.
I'm a PvP acfficionado and I rather like classes to have particular roles that offer synergies and interesting group tactics...
I understand how tank-healer-dps can get tired in PvE but in PvP it does make sense. For example, I really love the way WAR classes work together in PvP - especially the tank mechanics.
IMO PvE, due to its predictability, always lends itself to "ideal" group composition. PvP on the other hand can afford highly specialized classes - and highly diversified groups. One group composition might work well against one enemy group or totally catastrophically bad against another. For example a bunch of tanks will devastate melee dps.. while the squishy dps in turn will butcher a healer group and so on.. What I'm trying to say is that in PvP you can get with much more specialization and diversification, both individually and in groups than in PvE (if you want to keep it interesting and challenging that is).
We'll see how they do this. I hope they make enough room for classes to get "specialized" and more group oriented. I love playing a PvP tank in WAR, for example. I can't kill shit but I can soak up enormous amounts of damage and annoy the hell out of the opposition - saving my squishies and breaking up enemy lines. Alone I'm totally crap but in a group synergy I'm worth much more than any jack-of-all-trades class.
Tank/priest/dps class system needs to go.
We've been playing that for almost 15 years now.
It's time for new things.
Having dedicated healer class means the dificulty of mobs is made so that the healer is needed,.
Since pure healers are always minority, if I have to wait for an hour to find a priest for my group it's gonna be too much 90's dejavu for me.
I cant do that anymore.
Devs are acting a bit cocky in their posts, criticizing (rightly so) the old MMORPG systems and saying they made big changes and improvements in GW2.
Well, if they kept Tank-healer-dps system then everything fails for me.
We'll see.
I care about your gaming 'problems' and teenage anxieties, just not today.