That's not needed, with a few exceptions 2010 game mechanics are the same as 2005 game mechanics, practically none of the current MMO's have revolutionary game mechanics compared to what was around in 2005.
Yes, that's how much the MMO genre overall has changed compared to the innovations and changes happening in the period 2000-2005.
I beg to differ. This is not the LoTRO forums but to cite just a couple of examples from that game there are skirmashes, the instanced epic quests where you play al;ongside NPC's. Aion has flight...bottom line is FC is still stuck. They don't even have alternate social outfits or housing which ironicaly enough was in Anarchy Online a.
I beg to differ from your differance. One of the reasons i quit LotRO was because of the scirmishes. They were a boring grind which offered nothing to me.
so skirmashes which offer not onlu inovative gameplay fighting alongside NPC's and offer all sorts of worthwhile rewards are boring, yet you consider grinding AA points and mining nodes for PvP rewarding..interesting
Another reason was the lack of challenge: After 5 months (I subbed when MoM was released) I had gained all the radiance gear, and my guild had the watcher on farm, and felt I was out of challenges. Fighting alongside NPC's are a great idea, too bad there's noone to fight with in LotRO... Couldn't care a jacks ass about flight to be terribly honest.
and once again you are chapioning a game which has zero death penalty, or any sort of equipment repair. Who cares if you die in AoC, all you do is respawn and run back to the fight iin 5 seconds...now to me that is boring
LotRO is a great game, but comparing it to another is silly because the premise is different.
No housing (never cared for it luckily), but we have a nice and sprawling guild city ni AoC. And if you had stayed even half way current on AoC, you would know there was social clothing in the game.
yeah guild cities.. oh wait SWG had guild cities 7 years ago plus housing. Exdactly what is innovative about AOC's guild cities ?
Social clothing? Exactly how many sets can you wear at once and switch between whil retaining the stats of your fighting armor? Since you claim to have played LoTRO you would know that in that game you can have 2 sets of clothing to switch between at will to alter your characters appearance without taking up inventory space and still retain your combat armor stats. Last I heard AoC's idea of social clothing was a few sets of clothes with no stats you could keep in inventory or bank and change out with your combat armor. Big woop de doo
So now instead of derailing the thread so you can talk bad about other games to try and divert attention maybe we can get back to the original post. Explain to me exactly what is AoC doing in this expansion that has not been done in other MMO's? Funcom had some great ideas in Anarchy Online and in that game abounded in fresh ideas and innovation, but AoC just reminds me of a newbie game that is a por clone of WoW and FC should be ashamed to charge a monthly fee for it.
Blizzard is fantastic at taking features in other games and making them work extremely stable in their games with adding their own twist to it. I can't think of anything Blizzard has done that is original or ground breaking in terms of game design. I do think their games are solid and enjoy them all. They completely ripped off the Warhammer Universe. Everyone knows this and no one seriously cares. As far as AoC goes I love the game. I hope it keeps growing.
Yeah, Blizzard isn't terribly original and Warcraft is a ripoff of the warhammer universe. But they do things right and make things fun.
The only thing I can think of the WOW has that is unique is phased questing. The environment changes based on where you are in the questline. For instance, you have a quest to go into a camp and kill the leader. Once the leader is dead, and you finish the quest, from that point on the camp is empty of enemies (for you). I can't think of another game that alters the environment based on your progression in a quest. ( I could be wrong).
It's funny though how people think their first game is the one that is the original. The people here playing AOC think the devs came up with all these amazing ideas on their own. There was a very unknown MMORPG before UO, then UO, then EQ.. after that, the majority of systems have been copied and improved upon.
Its obvious that AOC is the superior game and WOW is only trying to copy anything it can from AOC to try and save the massive amount of subs it's losing to AOC. The writing is on the wall for Blizzard and this is the first time since AOC's launch that I have seen Blizzard tremble in fear of another developer.
RotGS is now an instant success and announced to the rest of the MMO world that AOC is the new number 1
I think as a livid example of a ravenous fanboi you give regular fans of AoC a bad vibe. Chill.
I agree AoC is a better game than WoW in almost every way, but content is not one of them. Although most people would rather play the far more engaging combat of AoC for 80 levels through less territories and raids than play the click and tick wow combat controls anyday. AKA whoever is wearing the shiniest hat and presses the button first wins.
I like AoC better than Wow for lots of reasons. The detail to every piece of armor, weapon, rock, tree, grass, and animals are all far superior to WoW. Not that graphics are everything but when you load up this game your eyes are popping out of your head wondering how long it took someone to make it like that. Everytime you log on it's breathtaking in what an MMO can be.
The music is impressive on it's own but the fact that it's dynamic according to what you are doing is icing on the cake. When you get into some serious action the mood changes vilolently and draws you into the combat.
It's no WoW killer .. yet .. but it will be in time as peoples computers become more and more powerful and FC adds more and more content and areas to the gameworld. It's only been 2 years, and they didn't have the funds that Blizzard had and look at where this is going. When the average computer can run AoC in dx10 mode (what like another year or 2?) a lot of people are going to wonder what they are missing when they see the differences between the two games. Have to wait and see but they are right on schedule with pulling this off.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Its obvious that AOC is the superior game and WOW is only trying to copy anything it can from AOC to try and save the massive amount of subs it's losing to AOC. The writing is on the wall for Blizzard and this is the first time since AOC's launch that I have seen Blizzard tremble in fear of another developer.
RotGS is now an instant success and announced to the rest of the MMO world that AOC is the new number 1
I think as a livid example of a ravenous fanboi you give regular fans of AoC a bad vibe. Chill.
I agree AoC is a better game than WoW in almost every way, but content is not one of them. Although most people would rather play the far more engaging combat of AoC for 80 levels through less territories and raids than play the click and tick wow combat controls anyday. AKA whoever is wearing the shiniest hat and presses the button first wins.
I like AoC better than Wow for lots of reasons. The detail to every piece of armor, weapon, rock, tree, grass, and animals are all far superior to WoW. Not that graphics are everything but when you load up this game your eyes are popping out of your head wondering how long it took someone to make it like that. Everytime you log on it's breathtaking in what an MMO can be.
The music is impressive on it's own but the fact that it's dynamic according to what you are doing is icing on the cake. When you get into some serious action the mood changes vilolently and draws you into the combat.
It's no WoW killer .. yet .. but it will be in time as peoples computers become more and more powerful and FC adds more and more content and areas to the gameworld. It's only been 2 years, and they didn't have the funds that Blizzard had and look at where this is going. When the average computer can run AoC in dx10 mode (what like another year or 2?) a lot of people are going to wonder what they are missing when they see the differences between the two games. Have to wait and see but they are right on schedule with pulling this off.
Well first of all having 5 bound arrow keys is pretty annoying to many players and melees needing to stop to cast combos is annoying. So I'm sure most would actualy prefer WoW, EQ, LOTRO, Aion, or any regular game's tried and true controls as those where designed for PCs and not for Xbox port.
Most MMOs just have more content and places to go and things to do which is important but yeah graphics and music are AoC's selling point.
Funcom spent almost as much money as Blizzard did when creating AoC....It was 3/4 the money but Funcom had enough money to finance this expansion and the other MMO The secrete world so money was never an issue. Also it depends unless this expansion brings many more players in and grows to LOTRO or Aion's level it is unlikely there will be enough development to justify poeple coming back in 2 years. AoC's lost money over all and all but 1 or 2 quarters so far so less they start making money why would they keep throwing money into the game?
I was thinking about the OPs statement and it does matter who serves the cake.......I can pick up a cake at Wallmart for 5 dollars or I could go get a wedding cake from a baker for 600 dollars...in AoC and WoW's case both games cost the same time and money so why not splurge for wedding cake? Also, I think this thread is good as it commends EQ 1 and EQ2 for innovation that both WoW and AoC copied from, WoW will probably do it better than has been done before but that is just how they roll.
Both RotGS and Cataclysm are basically lateral/horizontal expansions, focusing much more on adding content sideways, not just increasing levels, and making stuff obsolete as the player progresses.
The differences between RotGSand Cataclysm are enormous - Cata is focused on redesigning the old world and adding the greatest raid content ever - 4 full raid dungeons. Imagine AoC's current zones, add a couple more, and then in a couple of years Funcom redesigning them from scratch, replacing every quest, every dungeon with redesigned ones. Plus, on top of that, adding 5 entirely new zones, 12 heroic 5 man dungeons, and 4 full raids. Oh, and on top of that, redesigning EVERY class and profession. Moreover, zones will involve terrain phasing, meaning the zone layout will CHANGE during your journey - the burning flames in Mount Hyjal will, for example, become extinguished as you progress, Kezan (goblin island) will become consumed by lava, etc. 2 NEW races are added, meaning 2 new starting zone with totally unique levelling from 1-15. Concerning pvp, which RotGS almost totally lacks (basically only AA development) - Cata will introduce at least 2 new BGs, world pvp zone Tol Barad, whole pvp system redesigned, etc. etc. All in all, in terms of content and the sheer size of the expansion, Cataclysm clearly wins.
For the life of me, I cannot comprehend the audacity and stupidity of some AoC fanbots who think that just becase Cata will have guild levelling and Path of the Titans (similar to AA), Blizzard stole ideas and that this makes the expansion somehow inferior.
That link only shows the sad truth how clueless some close-minded people can be.
Oh, and btw, there are many differences between guild levelling and guild renown, AA system and path of the titans, but I guess it's just easier to equate the two and simply call the winner the one who comes first.
glad someones watchin over things
thx good thought(s)
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
Hey fellow MMOers. Found this one on the AoC forums. It's about how the Wow players now are drewling over something that might get introduced to them within the next year. Guess what, guild reknown and AA system...hmmm sounds strangely familiar.
That's not needed, with a few exceptions 2010 game mechanics are the same as 2005 game mechanics, practically none of the current MMO's have revolutionary game mechanics compared to what was around in 2005.
Yes, that's how much the MMO genre overall has changed compared to the innovations and changes happening in the period 2000-2005.
I beg to differ. This is not the LoTRO forums but to cite just a couple of examples from that game there are skirmashes, the instanced epic quests where you play al;ongside NPC's. Aion has flight...bottom line is FC is still stuck. They don't even have alternate social outfits or housing which ironicaly enough was in Anarchy Online a.
I beg to differ from your differance. One of the reasons i quit LotRO was because of the scirmishes. They were a boring grind which offered nothing to me.
so skirmashes which offer not onlu inovative gameplay fighting alongside NPC's and offer all sorts of worthwhile rewards are boring, yet you consider grinding AA points and mining nodes for PvP rewarding..interesting
Another reason was the lack of challenge: After 5 months (I subbed when MoM was released) I had gained all the radiance gear, and my guild had the watcher on farm, and felt I was out of challenges. Fighting alongside NPC's are a great idea, too bad there's noone to fight with in LotRO... Couldn't care a jacks ass about flight to be terribly honest.
and once again you are chapioning a game which has zero death penalty, or any sort of equipment repair. Who cares if you die in AoC, all you do is respawn and run back to the fight iin 5 seconds...now to me that is boring
LotRO is a great game, but comparing it to another is silly because the premise is different.
No housing (never cared for it luckily), but we have a nice and sprawling guild city ni AoC. And if you had stayed even half way current on AoC, you would know there was social clothing in the game.
yeah guild cities.. oh wait SWG had guild cities 7 years ago plus housing. Exdactly what is innovative about AOC's guild cities ?
Social clothing? Exactly how many sets can you wear at once and switch between whil retaining the stats of your fighting armor? Since you claim to have played LoTRO you would know that in that game you can have 2 sets of clothing to switch between at will to alter your characters appearance without taking up inventory space and still retain your combat armor stats. Last I heard AoC's idea of social clothing was a few sets of clothes with no stats you could keep in inventory or bank and change out with your combat armor. Big woop de doo
So now instead of derailing the thread so you can talk bad about other games to try and divert attention maybe we can get back to the original post. Explain to me exactly what is AoC doing in this expansion that has not been done in other MMO's? Funcom had some great ideas in Anarchy Online and in that game abounded in fresh ideas and innovation, but AoC just reminds me of a newbie game that is a por clone of WoW and FC should be ashamed to charge a monthly fee for it.
I'll not even bother replying to your rant seeing as I have written, many times, that it was my experience and opinions about another game which is a great game too. You however, always think your opinion is above everyone elses, which is why offering mine seems wasted.
Please guys, don't take this anecdote to that flamepit. I thought what the guy in the AoC forum mentioned was funny because I did not know of Blizzards plans. I think, for what it's worth, it is a sign of that the AoC team really have hit the nail on the head with a few of their new designs, they have been around as a mmo company before blizzard, give a monkey a typewriter and hundred years (joke aside funcom did invent some good ideas) since O`great MMO developer above all (read Blizzard) now go same direction with some of their choises (inspired by AoC or not...it's not important). On a more serious note, is this healthy to the industry. Is it such that it all in the end will go into the womb of WOW? simply because inventions from blizz blizzard didnt invent much but innovated, different things are extra good just because good inventions not really are recognized as good inventions before Blizzard dress it up in their own Orc Costume. I would think, we players want to see and have many good and decent choises when it comes to MMOs...yes And therefore it's a bit worrying when 11 mill people go wooohooo over something that have been implemented in another game for over a year, just because it comes from Blizz..... they are not going whoohoo because they think its new, they trust blizzard will give them something fun(bold underline trust, read innovation) I do not believe in monopoly, and I certainly hope for all MMO developer (not only Blizz) to get some $ in the door, so that they can send some more $ out the door, and eventually expand and develop a good set of MMO choises for us. yes, but only if the company earns it by good products, i remember blizzard when they were a very small company, they didnt grow on charity MMO's that sprung from different ideas, MMO's based on different philosophes...
Just one MMO sounds awfully boring.. tru dat
and this is coming from a guy who cant stand the graphics/gameplay of Wow and is newly subscribed to AoC, again
Depending on how you define it, AA probably began with Shadows of Luclin - but Anarchy Online had a form of guild renown early on, though it depended on PvP achievements and could be lost. Does it really matter, when none of these games would be around without EverQuest? Modern MMOs would probably all either be shooters or look like Fat Princess. (God I wish.)
Really, AA dates back at least to D&D 3rd Ed. and who knows what before that.
In any case, it's funny to see some of you getting upset about it, as if they stole an idea from a game YOU made. You didn't make a game, so rest assured your honor is free from any such stain, and you can all put your Super Soakers away. The only thing we should be worried about is these games becoming too much alike, and if you don't see most of them bending over backwards to avoid that then you aren't looking.
einexile the meek Vacuos, Winterlong, Vaciante, Eicosapenta Atlantean, Tyranny, Malton
Let's face it, guys. Real innovation has been sparse the last 5 years, most are just variations on the same theme, and before fanbois from whatever MMO they're playing are jumping on this: what does it matter? If the MMO you're playing implements something that has been around in another form in another MMO earlier, I couldn't care less if it makes the game I'm playing more enjoyable.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's no WoW killer .. yet .. but it will be in time as peoples computers become more and more powerful and FC adds more and more content and areas to the gameworld. It's only been 2 years, and they didn't have the funds that Blizzard had and look at where this is going. When the average computer can run AoC in dx10 mode (what like another year or 2?) a lot of people are going to wonder what they are missing when they see the differences between the two games. Have to wait and see but they are right on schedule with pulling this off.
Reading someone predict a wow-killer for the zillionth time is just mind-boggling.
But anyways, enjoy your AoC I'm sure it'll be up and running for years. Poor launch but really shaping up. I'd give it a go myself if I could just get some RL buds to try it out.
It's no WoW killer .. yet .. but it will be in time as peoples computers become more and more powerful and FC adds more and more content and areas to the gameworld. It's only been 2 years, and they didn't have the funds that Blizzard had and look at where this is going. When the average computer can run AoC in dx10 mode (what like another year or 2?) a lot of people are going to wonder what they are missing when they see the differences between the two games. Have to wait and see but they are right on schedule with pulling this off.
Reading someone predict a wow-killer for the zillionth time is just mind-boggling.
But anyways, enjoy your AoC I'm sure it'll be up and running for years. Poor launch but really shaping up. I'd give it a go myself if I could just get some RL buds to try it out.
I agree. Speaking of WoW killing is idiotic. It's not about that, it's not about killing any MMO and litle AoC I am sure would be the last to kill anything. Also, the whole discussion what MMO made what system first is also a bit like treading water. Whats the purpose of that discussion? It's back to the good old, my MMO is better than yours type of fights. The only thing I dread is that if people can't see the good in system implementations in other games than WoW, no wonder we have just one huge MMO left on the market. Seems to me that people, or perhaps just the ones hanging out in WoW are terribly unaware of what other MMOs in the genre have to offer. A few thousand peps over here in mmorpg.com are very informed, but I fear that we are just <5% of the total MMO community. That doesn't leave much to the non-Blizzard industry to live of.
WoW cannot be killed due to just another game comin out or AoC's expansion (I plan on buyin it, i'm not bashing) What will kill WoW is blizzard's own sense of false entitlement and that they are immune to their community. They will trickle away their fans slowly afew hundred thousand at a time until only the fanboi's are left. For all the great things about WoW's future expansion, you cannot claim content is amongst them. They want 3-4 'raids' with 3-4 bosses each in it. By my math, WOTLK had more bosses to slay then cata will at launch.
You can dumb down a product too much and people will seek other challenges elsewhere, WoW is in terrible jeopardy for the first time in its long monopoly of really killing the golden goose. They are removing ratings from pvp weapons so everyone can get them easier, they are making 10m's drop the same gear as 25's. Many many people I know (including myself) will NOT be buying cata, not because of some "WoW killer" but because blizzard's own incompetance will be their demise. They have not released sub numbers since WOTLK started, why is that? The dumbin down of content is runnin alot of there 'hardcore' player base off, too much carrot not enough stick. The solution is to offer more carrot apparently. Blizzard's thread for this topic got to 400 pages within 3 days and was shut down because they didn't like their fans telling them like it was.
And before one of you rabid WoW fanboi's flame me, go ahead and armory me I have probably forgotten more about WoW then many of you blind fanboi's will ever know. WoW will not die in some huge release date or expansion of another game, it will be a slow painful trickle which has already begun for WOTLK and only will become worse from here. Next expansion: 5m dungeons drop the same gear as 10m since it's unfair for the 10m's to have the better gear. Blizzard is slowly becoming the company they set out to crush in the early 90's. What a shame, I was one of the fanboi's who thought activision buyin them wouldn't change the way they did busines.. Whoops, another slice of humble pie plz..
WoW cannot be killed due to just another game comin out or AoC's expansion (I plan on buyin it, i'm not bashing) What will kill WoW is blizzard's own sense of false entitlement and that they are immune to their community. They will trickle away their fans slowly afew hundred thousand at a time until only the fanboi's are left. For all the great things about WoW's future expansion, you cannot claim content is amongst them. They want 3-4 'raids' with 3-4 bosses each in it. By my math, WOTLK had more bosses to slay then cata will at launch.
In software, and indeed games, the golden line is when a game has "made its money back," paid off the publisher, the distributor, the shareholders, and so forth. Everything after that is gravy. I wouldn't want to hazard a guess at how many times WoW has made its money back (10-fold? 100-fold?). WoW is an elephant, but it's an aging elephant. I would suspect at this point it's merely a training ground for new designers (and new leads) at Blizzard. And probably also trying out new ideas in a Live enviornment, that can be applied to the next MMO.
But the thing has earned a fortune, and all of that is happily used to bank-roll other projects. I doubt anything more than a single-digit percent is reinvested back into the project. I honestly think it's a hit a sort of critical mass where it gets subs simply because it has subs. Not because of any particular innovation or awesome feature.
But you're right - Blizzard itself is the only WoW killer. That, and time. I think the problem is MMO companies are caught in a bad habit of "chasing WoW" and making decisions because "WoW did it." Stuff like "Oh, lets make our crafting system like WoW's" as if WoW was a sort of standard/default. When in reality, new titles should be chasing/predicting features of Blizzard's next MMO which will probably be nothing like WoW, and then everything that was made "like WoW" will seem extremely dated.
Comments
So now instead of derailing the thread so you can talk bad about other games to try and divert attention maybe we can get back to the original post. Explain to me exactly what is AoC doing in this expansion that has not been done in other MMO's? Funcom had some great ideas in Anarchy Online and in that game abounded in fresh ideas and innovation, but AoC just reminds me of a newbie game that is a por clone of WoW and FC should be ashamed to charge a monthly fee for it.
I miss DAoC
Yeah, Blizzard isn't terribly original and Warcraft is a ripoff of the warhammer universe. But they do things right and make things fun.
The only thing I can think of the WOW has that is unique is phased questing. The environment changes based on where you are in the questline. For instance, you have a quest to go into a camp and kill the leader. Once the leader is dead, and you finish the quest, from that point on the camp is empty of enemies (for you). I can't think of another game that alters the environment based on your progression in a quest. ( I could be wrong).
It's funny though how people think their first game is the one that is the original. The people here playing AOC think the devs came up with all these amazing ideas on their own. There was a very unknown MMORPG before UO, then UO, then EQ.. after that, the majority of systems have been copied and improved upon.
I think as a livid example of a ravenous fanboi you give regular fans of AoC a bad vibe. Chill.
I agree AoC is a better game than WoW in almost every way, but content is not one of them. Although most people would rather play the far more engaging combat of AoC for 80 levels through less territories and raids than play the click and tick wow combat controls anyday. AKA whoever is wearing the shiniest hat and presses the button first wins.
I like AoC better than Wow for lots of reasons. The detail to every piece of armor, weapon, rock, tree, grass, and animals are all far superior to WoW. Not that graphics are everything but when you load up this game your eyes are popping out of your head wondering how long it took someone to make it like that. Everytime you log on it's breathtaking in what an MMO can be.
The music is impressive on it's own but the fact that it's dynamic according to what you are doing is icing on the cake. When you get into some serious action the mood changes vilolently and draws you into the combat.
It's no WoW killer .. yet .. but it will be in time as peoples computers become more and more powerful and FC adds more and more content and areas to the gameworld. It's only been 2 years, and they didn't have the funds that Blizzard had and look at where this is going. When the average computer can run AoC in dx10 mode (what like another year or 2?) a lot of people are going to wonder what they are missing when they see the differences between the two games. Have to wait and see but they are right on schedule with pulling this off.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Well first of all having 5 bound arrow keys is pretty annoying to many players and melees needing to stop to cast combos is annoying. So I'm sure most would actualy prefer WoW, EQ, LOTRO, Aion, or any regular game's tried and true controls as those where designed for PCs and not for Xbox port.
Most MMOs just have more content and places to go and things to do which is important but yeah graphics and music are AoC's selling point.
Funcom spent almost as much money as Blizzard did when creating AoC....It was 3/4 the money but Funcom had enough money to finance this expansion and the other MMO The secrete world so money was never an issue. Also it depends unless this expansion brings many more players in and grows to LOTRO or Aion's level it is unlikely there will be enough development to justify poeple coming back in 2 years. AoC's lost money over all and all but 1 or 2 quarters so far so less they start making money why would they keep throwing money into the game?
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I was thinking about the OPs statement and it does matter who serves the cake.......I can pick up a cake at Wallmart for 5 dollars or I could go get a wedding cake from a baker for 600 dollars...in AoC and WoW's case both games cost the same time and money so why not splurge for wedding cake? Also, I think this thread is good as it commends EQ 1 and EQ2 for innovation that both WoW and AoC copied from, WoW will probably do it better than has been done before but that is just how they roll.
Funcom has reviewed all of its assets relevant for
impairment testing. This process has led to
recognition of an impairment loss of around
3,1 MUSD for Age of Conan due to a decrease in
numbers of subscribers for the game. Funcom Q4 10 report.
http://forums.ageofconan.com/showpost.php?p=2926123&postcount=7 500 mains/alts on Tyranny in past 30 days - instead of merge servers let's open a new PvP server, again! http://forums-eu.ageofconan.com/showthread.php?t=106427
glad someones watchin over things
thx good thought(s)
Just when you think you have all the answers, I change the questions.
All MMO's share common elements at one point or another, so raising the flag of innovation at this juncture seems premature at best.
Speaking of familiar, there's something familiar about you too. Familiar enough to wake me up again.
I'll not even bother replying to your rant seeing as I have written, many times, that it was my experience and opinions about another game which is a great game too. You however, always think your opinion is above everyone elses, which is why offering mine seems wasted.
and this is coming from a guy who cant stand the graphics/gameplay of Wow and is newly subscribed to AoC, again
I need more vespene gas.
Depending on how you define it, AA probably began with Shadows of Luclin - but Anarchy Online had a form of guild renown early on, though it depended on PvP achievements and could be lost. Does it really matter, when none of these games would be around without EverQuest? Modern MMOs would probably all either be shooters or look like Fat Princess. (God I wish.)
Really, AA dates back at least to D&D 3rd Ed. and who knows what before that.
In any case, it's funny to see some of you getting upset about it, as if they stole an idea from a game YOU made. You didn't make a game, so rest assured your honor is free from any such stain, and you can all put your Super Soakers away. The only thing we should be worried about is these games becoming too much alike, and if you don't see most of them bending over backwards to avoid that then you aren't looking.
einexile the meek
Vacuos, Winterlong, Vaciante, Eicosapenta
Atlantean, Tyranny, Malton
Let's face it, guys. Real innovation has been sparse the last 5 years, most are just variations on the same theme, and before fanbois from whatever MMO they're playing are jumping on this: what does it matter? If the MMO you're playing implements something that has been around in another form in another MMO earlier, I couldn't care less if it makes the game I'm playing more enjoyable.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Reading someone predict a wow-killer for the zillionth time is just mind-boggling.
But anyways, enjoy your AoC I'm sure it'll be up and running for years. Poor launch but really shaping up. I'd give it a go myself if I could just get some RL buds to try it out.
I agree. Speaking of WoW killing is idiotic. It's not about that, it's not about killing any MMO and litle AoC I am sure would be the last to kill anything. Also, the whole discussion what MMO made what system first is also a bit like treading water. Whats the purpose of that discussion? It's back to the good old, my MMO is better than yours type of fights. The only thing I dread is that if people can't see the good in system implementations in other games than WoW, no wonder we have just one huge MMO left on the market. Seems to me that people, or perhaps just the ones hanging out in WoW are terribly unaware of what other MMOs in the genre have to offer. A few thousand peps over here in mmorpg.com are very informed, but I fear that we are just <5% of the total MMO community. That doesn't leave much to the non-Blizzard industry to live of.
===> One MMO = Very Bad
The Ultimate Breakdown
WoW cannot be killed due to just another game comin out or AoC's expansion (I plan on buyin it, i'm not bashing) What will kill WoW is blizzard's own sense of false entitlement and that they are immune to their community. They will trickle away their fans slowly afew hundred thousand at a time until only the fanboi's are left. For all the great things about WoW's future expansion, you cannot claim content is amongst them. They want 3-4 'raids' with 3-4 bosses each in it. By my math, WOTLK had more bosses to slay then cata will at launch.
You can dumb down a product too much and people will seek other challenges elsewhere, WoW is in terrible jeopardy for the first time in its long monopoly of really killing the golden goose. They are removing ratings from pvp weapons so everyone can get them easier, they are making 10m's drop the same gear as 25's. Many many people I know (including myself) will NOT be buying cata, not because of some "WoW killer" but because blizzard's own incompetance will be their demise. They have not released sub numbers since WOTLK started, why is that? The dumbin down of content is runnin alot of there 'hardcore' player base off, too much carrot not enough stick. The solution is to offer more carrot apparently. Blizzard's thread for this topic got to 400 pages within 3 days and was shut down because they didn't like their fans telling them like it was.
And before one of you rabid WoW fanboi's flame me, go ahead and armory me I have probably forgotten more about WoW then many of you blind fanboi's will ever know. WoW will not die in some huge release date or expansion of another game, it will be a slow painful trickle which has already begun for WOTLK and only will become worse from here. Next expansion: 5m dungeons drop the same gear as 10m since it's unfair for the 10m's to have the better gear. Blizzard is slowly becoming the company they set out to crush in the early 90's. What a shame, I was one of the fanboi's who thought activision buyin them wouldn't change the way they did busines.. Whoops, another slice of humble pie plz..
In software, and indeed games, the golden line is when a game has "made its money back," paid off the publisher, the distributor, the shareholders, and so forth. Everything after that is gravy. I wouldn't want to hazard a guess at how many times WoW has made its money back (10-fold? 100-fold?). WoW is an elephant, but it's an aging elephant. I would suspect at this point it's merely a training ground for new designers (and new leads) at Blizzard. And probably also trying out new ideas in a Live enviornment, that can be applied to the next MMO.
But the thing has earned a fortune, and all of that is happily used to bank-roll other projects. I doubt anything more than a single-digit percent is reinvested back into the project. I honestly think it's a hit a sort of critical mass where it gets subs simply because it has subs. Not because of any particular innovation or awesome feature.
But you're right - Blizzard itself is the only WoW killer. That, and time. I think the problem is MMO companies are caught in a bad habit of "chasing WoW" and making decisions because "WoW did it." Stuff like "Oh, lets make our crafting system like WoW's" as if WoW was a sort of standard/default. When in reality, new titles should be chasing/predicting features of Blizzard's next MMO which will probably be nothing like WoW, and then everything that was made "like WoW" will seem extremely dated.