If this dynamic event pans out as described in this article it could very well be the next generation of MMOGs.
However I havent heard much on how PvP would be included in this dynamic event design. It would be very nice if PvP outcomes would also affect the world.
@Yamota PvP will be discussed soon, but as the 1st blog said, there are 2 types of PvP, Structured and World vs World WvW will be held in the Mist, which separate from the persistent world where dynamic events occur (there will be no pvp in the pve persistent world) there will be a weekly bout of worlds and the winning world will get certain undiscussed benefits Structured PvP will be similar to current GW1 PvP
PvP will be discussed in greater detail in a later time
So high level characters can participate in low level events - making them trivial. Bad design. They won't be exciting challenges, they will be power leveling opportunities.
Please send me your address. I will be able to point you to people that will make your life very exciting. They will tell what to eat, where to sleep and what to think. And they will beat you to death, should you disobey.
They are... the MMORPGs with limited choices :-P
Surely one can put the binders on. Look at WAR - you will turn into chicken, if your level is too high.
I don't care, if they are, or will be.
I will be there for a story and the feel of it. Should I deem the Event good, I will participate in it, even if I am 1 000 levels higher.
That is my choice. Others may choose differently.
And yet... who the hell are you, to take my choice away? Besides, the moment of making a choice is the most interesting part.
If you only can kill X with a +Y Spear, or run a dungeon only in a ZXCY set-up that pretty much beats the point of playing.
This is the rational that griefers use. Not saying you are but it is this attitude that breaks games for many people outside of yourself.
I do understand your overall point but the fact of the matter is all MMO's are about lots of people in a single environment trying to enjoy it. As a considerate individual you must look at your own choices and make a decision as to how that affects the people around you and if it is a negative outcome then you should choose to not do it. Running a high level character through a low level area and killing everything usually has broad negative consequences for all the low level people trying to have fun. Your "right" to have fun does not exceed their "right" to have fun. No matter how much you paid to play the game.
As to high level characters breaking low level events...not too many ways to stop that without some form of chicken style mechanic. Of course it does not have to be as drastic as turning into a chicken just the reduction in level and power to a reasonable amount should be sufficient and it sounds like this is what they are doing so...everything I read about how they are handling things leads me to think they are heading in the right direction.
Did people even read the quote from gw2g? They already solved the the problem. Your high level character scales down to the level of the event through the side-kick system so you can enjoy all events at any level. Most annoying thing about complainer's is when they don't read the solutions to the problem.
So high level characters can participate in low level events - making them trivial. Bad design. They won't be exciting challenges, they will be power leveling opportunities.
Please send me your address. I will be able to point you to people that will make your life very exciting. They will tell what to eat, where to sleep and what to think. And they will beat you to death, should you disobey.
They are... the MMORPGs with limited choices :-P
Surely one can put the binders on. Look at WAR - you will turn into chicken, if your level is too high.
I don't care, if they are, or will be.
I will be there for a story and the feel of it. Should I deem the Event good, I will participate in it, even if I am 1 000 levels higher.
That is my choice. Others may choose differently.
And yet... who the hell are you, to take my choice away? Besides, the moment of making a choice is the most interesting part.
If you only can kill X with a +Y Spear, or run a dungeon only in a ZXCY set-up that pretty much beats the point of playing.
As to high level characters breaking low level events...not too many ways to stop that without some form of chicken style mechanic. Of course it does not have to be as drastic as turning into a chicken just the reduction in level and power to a reasonable amount should be sufficient and it sounds like this is what they are doing so...everything I read about how they are handling things leads me to think they are heading in the right direction.
Did people even read the quote from gw2g? They already solved the the problem. Your high level character scales down to the level of the event through the side-kick system so you can enjoy all events at any level. Most annoying thing about complainer's is when they don't read the solutions to the problem.
Am I the only one who finds this ridiculous?
Bear with me.. if character level scales up or down according to the event.. then why do we have character levels at all?
When will some AAA dev finally find the guts to dispense with this ancient and fankly dumb leveling mechanic? Arenanet obviously realizes the universal problems levels in mmo pose - namely separating players and dividing them into ridiculous, immersion breaking level brackets and locking players out of content...
I really really hoped they would be the first ones to completely dispense with levels, as they almost did in GW1, and to a great success. There are other ways and mechanics of gradually unlocking new character abilitis and content, levels are just the most straightforward one.. but one which creates immense problems in a massively multiplayer environment. Any solutions to these problems are gimmicky at best and hugely immersion-breaking at worst. (Please, give me ANY game-reality rationale why would my character suddenly grow weaker or stronger just by entering a particular region of the world or meeting another character?!?!? It's just plain ridiculous!)
And now with these mechanics in place in PvE and max-level boosting in arena PVP what part of the game is the one where char levels have any import at all? The world PvP in mysts... Oh my god. Enjoyable PvP is ABSOLUTELY DEPENDANT on characters being at least to some degree equal. All the griefing and unfairness in MMO PvP comes from the fact that in PvE model based games characters of different levels can have hugely different character strengths so a low level character has absolutely NO CHANCE against a high level one. Again, GW1 had this down pat with their lateral advancement scheme where you could concivable have a new character compete with a veteran - ofc a vetran would have a much greater chance of winning but it wasn't inconcievable that a newb could at least theoretically do some harm to the vet, or even win if he got lucky.
So basically they are leaving this character level-based stratification only in the portion of the game where it is set about to produce the most harm and is absolutely the least appropriate - open world PvP. Just witness any world PvP game where there is a huge power difference between new players and veterans... It simply DOES NOT WORK. It always devolves into a game of frustration where newbs cannot participate and the vets are bored because they are untouchable. Open world PvP mmos have tried again and again to solve this problem by various gimmicks which always end up harming the game and breaking immersion - from "PvP only from max level" to "turn you into a chicken" crap.
JUST SAY NO TO LEVELS ALREADY!!!
It is simply ridiculous to what lengths the devs are going to these days to basically make levels irrelevant - because they are aware how inappropriate the whole concept is for multiplayer games - while at the same time hanging on them like the holy cow of RPG game design. ENOUGH ALREADY!
I must say that I'm very impressed with the advanced concepts and mechanics Arenanet is introducing to push the MMO genere forward and this is why I'm so immensely saddened to see them being hampered by a lack of courage to finally drive the nail in and just SAY NO TO LEVELS.
So, with the lack of focus on organized groups for world pve do you think GW2 will implement in-game voice chat to facilitate communication between people participating in events?
I could see some possibility of griefing this system, but the benefits might out weigh the negatives.
People do want to level up their characters, though. It is a key aspect of an RPG.
Now, I personally think that balance and personality issues demand that there be separate games for PvE and PvP players. WH Online should have gone in the latter category - even though Mythic did a good job with the PQs.
Assuming that a game is going to try to do justice to both styles of play - players should have two progressions. One for PvE and one for PvP. Gear should be separated into one or the other. PvP earns you PvP gear (which is unusable in PvE) and vice versa for PvE.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
People do want to level up their characters, though. It is a key aspect of an RPG.
Now, I personally think that balance and personality issues demand that there be separate games for PvE and PvP players. WH Online should have gone in the latter category - even though Mythic did a good job with the PQs.
Assuming that a game is going to try to do justice to both styles of play - players should have two progressions. One for PvE and one for PvP. Gear should be separated into one or the other. PvP earns you PvP gear (which is unusable in PvE) and vice versa for PvE.
There is no progression for structured pvp since it's all on a completely level playing field. WvW may have pvp only armour but It'd likely only be different skins of the ones found in pvp. They've already hinted that most pvp progression will be done through statistics e.g kill to death ratio etc like those found in fps shooters.
People do want to level up their characters, though. It is a key aspect of an RPG.
Now, I personally think that balance and personality issues demand that there be separate games for PvE and PvP players. WH Online should have gone in the latter category - even though Mythic did a good job with the PQs.
Assuming that a game is going to try to do justice to both styles of play - players should have two progressions. One for PvE and one for PvP. Gear should be separated into one or the other. PvP earns you PvP gear (which is unusable in PvE) and vice versa for PvE.
In the structured PVP (ie arena) everyone will be on a level playing field, you'll all be the same level, have the same access to to the gear, etcetera. If you have played GW it is like the PVP only characters (or if you have played on the wow tournament realm, it is similar to that). The world versus world pvp you'll go in as you are, there will be unbalances there due to that and I'm sure there will be crying about it too.
Comments
If this dynamic event pans out as described in this article it could very well be the next generation of MMOGs.
However I havent heard much on how PvP would be included in this dynamic event design. It would be very nice if PvP outcomes would also affect the world.
My gaming blog
@Yamota
PvP will be discussed soon, but as the 1st blog said, there are 2 types of PvP, Structured and World vs World
WvW will be held in the Mist, which separate from the persistent world where dynamic events occur (there will be no pvp in the pve persistent world)
there will be a weekly bout of worlds and the winning world will get certain undiscussed benefits
Structured PvP will be similar to current GW1 PvP
PvP will be discussed in greater detail in a later time
Have fun storming the castle! - Miracle Max
Did people even read the quote from gw2g? They already solved the the problem. Your high level character scales down to the level of the event through the side-kick system so you can enjoy all events at any level. Most annoying thing about complainer's is when they don't read the solutions to the problem.
Am I the only one who finds this ridiculous?
Bear with me.. if character level scales up or down according to the event.. then why do we have character levels at all?
When will some AAA dev finally find the guts to dispense with this ancient and fankly dumb leveling mechanic? Arenanet obviously realizes the universal problems levels in mmo pose - namely separating players and dividing them into ridiculous, immersion breaking level brackets and locking players out of content...
I really really hoped they would be the first ones to completely dispense with levels, as they almost did in GW1, and to a great success. There are other ways and mechanics of gradually unlocking new character abilitis and content, levels are just the most straightforward one.. but one which creates immense problems in a massively multiplayer environment. Any solutions to these problems are gimmicky at best and hugely immersion-breaking at worst. (Please, give me ANY game-reality rationale why would my character suddenly grow weaker or stronger just by entering a particular region of the world or meeting another character?!?!? It's just plain ridiculous!)
And now with these mechanics in place in PvE and max-level boosting in arena PVP what part of the game is the one where char levels have any import at all? The world PvP in mysts... Oh my god. Enjoyable PvP is ABSOLUTELY DEPENDANT on characters being at least to some degree equal. All the griefing and unfairness in MMO PvP comes from the fact that in PvE model based games characters of different levels can have hugely different character strengths so a low level character has absolutely NO CHANCE against a high level one. Again, GW1 had this down pat with their lateral advancement scheme where you could concivable have a new character compete with a veteran - ofc a vetran would have a much greater chance of winning but it wasn't inconcievable that a newb could at least theoretically do some harm to the vet, or even win if he got lucky.
So basically they are leaving this character level-based stratification only in the portion of the game where it is set about to produce the most harm and is absolutely the least appropriate - open world PvP. Just witness any world PvP game where there is a huge power difference between new players and veterans... It simply DOES NOT WORK. It always devolves into a game of frustration where newbs cannot participate and the vets are bored because they are untouchable. Open world PvP mmos have tried again and again to solve this problem by various gimmicks which always end up harming the game and breaking immersion - from "PvP only from max level" to "turn you into a chicken" crap.
JUST SAY NO TO LEVELS ALREADY!!!
It is simply ridiculous to what lengths the devs are going to these days to basically make levels irrelevant - because they are aware how inappropriate the whole concept is for multiplayer games - while at the same time hanging on them like the holy cow of RPG game design. ENOUGH ALREADY!
I must say that I'm very impressed with the advanced concepts and mechanics Arenanet is introducing to push the MMO genere forward and this is why I'm so immensely saddened to see them being hampered by a lack of courage to finally drive the nail in and just SAY NO TO LEVELS.
So, with the lack of focus on organized groups for world pve do you think GW2 will implement in-game voice chat to facilitate communication between people participating in events?
I could see some possibility of griefing this system, but the benefits might out weigh the negatives.
People do want to level up their characters, though. It is a key aspect of an RPG.
Now, I personally think that balance and personality issues demand that there be separate games for PvE and PvP players. WH Online should have gone in the latter category - even though Mythic did a good job with the PQs.
Assuming that a game is going to try to do justice to both styles of play - players should have two progressions. One for PvE and one for PvP. Gear should be separated into one or the other. PvP earns you PvP gear (which is unusable in PvE) and vice versa for PvE.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
There is no progression for structured pvp since it's all on a completely level playing field. WvW may have pvp only armour but It'd likely only be different skins of the ones found in pvp. They've already hinted that most pvp progression will be done through statistics e.g kill to death ratio etc like those found in fps shooters.
In the structured PVP (ie arena) everyone will be on a level playing field, you'll all be the same level, have the same access to to the gear, etcetera. If you have played GW it is like the PVP only characters (or if you have played on the wow tournament realm, it is similar to that). The world versus world pvp you'll go in as you are, there will be unbalances there due to that and I'm sure there will be crying about it too.