I think even the forums are starting to die down. Now I think it's just threads by lifers about how to save sto. Funny a few weeks ago anyone who made mention of declingin sub levels and ways to save sto were accused of crying DOOM. But I guess if you pay your $300 you're free to do whatever you want.
As for people coming back, I think cryptic missed the boat. You pretty much get one chance in the mmo industry and if you don't hook players in the first 30 days or so, that's it. Look at vanguard, It was a buggy mess at launch, people left and never came back even after they relaunched a few months later. It was a shame because vanguard did have some interestin ideas especially the diplomacy system. STO is in the same boat, some good ideas but poorly executed and buggy. Even looking at their coming soon list, there's nothing that would make me pay $15 to see how poorly implemented things will be.
If a game has potential, I think enough people will give a MMO a second chance to keep it around for a while. True, not enough to make a game a monster success, but enough to keep it alive. In STO's case, a "Welcome Back" weekend 3 months into launch, among other desperate marketing ploys, shows how much trouble they're in.
I gave LotRO a second chance after Moria and around SoM and now I'm a customer. I gave AoC a second chance around 1.05 update (where stats and gear finally mattered) and they kept me for a couple months, but I still found it lacking. Of course, in both those cases I was bored and probably wouldn't have if I was hooked on some other MMO lol. In Turbine and Funcom's cases, they had a good foundation to build on and I think they honestly tried to improve their games. IMO STO can't be saved due to an engine not suited to convey the vastness of space, generally uninspired design, and Cryptic's Ferengi-like business practices.
Dstahl commented on ground vehicles for STO on a thread requesting them. According to Dstahl they only have 1 guy who could do the ground physics but was far too busy doing other things. Anything outside the scope of their current wonder engine tools copy and paste functions is not feasible it seems. What a waste. It almost seems like they have the STO hardware tagged for reuse on their next MMO.
Planet maps are microscopic as it is. why would people want vehicles? It's not like you have to trek for hours to find your 5 items to scan then you can beam right out.
Not to mention you'd undoubtedly have to suffer yet another load screen to mount it, lol.
EDIT: @Darth: IMO, LOTRO and AoC (with expac) are the two top (mainstream) MMOs on the market today.
Some people are starting to say that already. People are starting to pin their hopes on updates that haven't even been announced yet. I guess once season 2 hits and the magical flood of players come back, they work on those.
On a humorous note: Surfing the STO general discussion forums earlier, I saw a post from a user who was swearing up and down that STO was going to be 2011's game of the year. That one gave me a good laugh. Check it out (post #3): http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=158755
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
the one i laughed at today was a lifer asking why they were delaying the next patch on the grounds that it needed to be finished, when the entire game was launched unfinished and bugged. (and yes i know the argument makes no sense, but it was amusing)
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
MMOS have more than one chance. Look at AOC. That was a big pile of shit upon release. A few job changes, some hard work and they have turned it around.
Not saying that Cryptic could turn it around unless they built a whole new game but it's still a possibility.
AoC had WAY more content than STO upon release.
Much better gameplay mechanics too. I'd venture to say AoC had a ton more open potential than STO, therefore it was easier to improve their game.
STO on the other hand is just designed horribly in the first place, therefore really needing a complete overhaul and a "do-over".
Originally posted by Chach MMOS have more than one chance. Look at AOC. That was a big pile of shit upon release. A few job changes, some hard work and they have turned it around. Not saying that Cryptic could turn it around unless they built a whole new game but it's still a possibility.
I don't see the possibility. If they were worried about the problems they would of fixed Champions Online. They bagged Lifers in CO, they bagged Lifers in STO, and will most likely bag idiots in the next MMO they create.
They don't care about fixing the game long term, they want a quick fix and offer "quick fixes" to people to give them hope.
6 statements + 6 videos = cryptic got owned. Well I'm not going to give them any cash...any more... i said that the last time but now it will never happen again.
6 statements + 6 videos = cryptic got owned. Well I'm not going to give them any cash...any more... i said that the last time but now it will never happen again.
That's just the thing - according to coderanger, we just don't understand that the suits at Cryptic can say something and that's completely divorced from reality from what the coders are actually going to put in the game.
But...at the same time, we weren't lied to, and if we question the inconsistencies between coderanger's statements and the suits' statements, or dare ask for our money back, we're being abusive.
The customer is not right, que sera sera...
I can't believe the way the customer service paradigm has shifted with this industry.
Its enjoyable to see how he picks them apart. Cryptic... hire this guy and fire about 10 or so people taking up space that Jacob could fill by his lonesome. A win/win situation.
Its enjoyable to see how he picks them apart. Cryptic... hire this guy and fire about 10 or so people taking up space that Jacob could fill by his lonesome. A win/win situation.
good read. having said that pointing out the obvious is not going to get any response from cryptic that doesnt read
-your wrong
-you just dont get it
-or the response just doesnt address what the poster has said
its really sad that cryptic seems to be spending so much time fixing the way we think about there game rather than fixing the game.
having said that due much more to the posts of cryptics employee's rather than the games themselves i will not deal with them again. insulting customers with valid complaints is no way to entice me back to there products. at this point i view any atari product with a great deal of distrust, not just cryptic
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Its enjoyable to see how he picks them apart. Cryptic... hire this guy and fire about 10 or so people taking up space that Jacob could fill by his lonesome. A win/win situation.
Surprise, surprise, the thread has been locked after less than a page's worth of discussion.
Cryptic is the most boneheaded and downright arrogant development studio I've ever seen.
I think we've done a pretty good job as a community of discussing this at length in the previous thread. We've looked at everyone's feedback and taken it to heart, but at this point we appear to be at an impasse. Jacob's opinion clearly can't be changed with the answers and information we're able to provide.
Do know, however, that we're always looking for new and interesting ways to get information to everyone, including our current players and future and former players of Star Trek Online. We're interested in developing those ideas with the community, but singular threads calling out specific individuals isn't a healthy way to go about doing that.
At this point i think they ran out of things to say. Its over .... !
Now STO go's into ICU ..untill the servers shut down.....!
We should know the truth of that, one way or the other, sometime later this year when Atari finally gets the 2009-2010 Q4 financial report out. It should be in Sept. or later; Atari has a abd habit of being late with those reports, a fact that has made NASDAQ delist Atari on several occasions.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I think we've done a pretty good job as a community of discussing this at length in the previous thread. We've looked at everyone's feedback and taken it to heart, but at this point we appear to be at an impasse. Jacob's opinion clearly can't be changed with the answers and information we're able to provide.
Do know, however, that we're always looking for new and interesting ways to get information to everyone, including our current players and future and former players of Star Trek Online. We're interested in developing those ideas with the community, but singular threads calling out specific individuals isn't a healthy way to go about doing that.
-your wrong " Jacob's opinion clearly can't be changed"
-you just dont get it "the answers and information we're able to provide"
-and of course this short response to a wall of text (and it is worth reading even if it is long) doesnt respond to anything jacob said.
i dont blame rekhan, hes being paid to defend a product that is flawed and incomplete at best, and im sure he must know that.
I don't think Jacob's opinion will be changed because it is simply the truth. I say this as someone who's followed STO since the days it was under development by Perpetual, as someone who's read the official forums extensively, and as someone who has played the game.
At this point i think they ran out of things to say. Its over .... !
Now STO go's into ICU ..untill the servers shut down.....!
We should know the truth of that, one way or the other, sometime later this year when Atari finally gets the 2009-2010 Q4 financial report out. It should be in Sept. or later; Atari has a abd habit of being late with those reports, a fact that has made NASDAQ delist Atari on several occasions.
I thought I had read somewhere their financials were due out on May 28th?
At this point i think they ran out of things to say. Its over .... !
Now STO go's into ICU ..untill the servers shut down.....!
We should know the truth of that, one way or the other, sometime later this year when Atari finally gets the 2009-2010 Q4 financial report out. It should be in Sept. or later; Atari has a abd habit of being late with those reports, a fact that has made NASDAQ delist Atari on several occasions.
I thought I had read somewhere their financials were due out on May 28th?
Sorry, somehow I missed this question when you posted it. Atari should have had its financial report out within a month after their 2009/2010 financial year ended (which happened on March 31, 2010), but they have a habit of being continuously late. For example, the new financial report I linked in another thread is a consolidated report for the couple of quarters that Atari didn't release specific reports for (Q3 and Q4 respectively). A search on the internet will show that Atari is habitually late with their financial reports, and frequently get delisted on NASDAQ because of it (going back on the list once they finally get the reports out). However they surprised me by getting the financial report for the year out this soon; going by their previous yearly reports, the earliest they usually get them out is September. I was actually just expecting the Q3 or possibly a combined Q3/Q4 report, with a yearly (2009/2010) report sometime in December.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
^ I had a lot of fun thinking about that. I just can't see how Atari wouldn't soon grow tierd of the BS and realize they're throwing good money after bad.
Maybe it's a great big tax write-off for them. I dunno.
^ I had a lot of fun thinking about that. I just can't see how Atari wouldn't soon grow tierd of the BS and realize they're throwing good money after bad.
Maybe it's a great big tax write-off for them. I dunno.
Well Atari has been throwing good money after bad for quite some time before they acquired Cryptic, so I don't see that changing anytime soon. Then again, who knows? Perhaps the new people they have in charge will see the light, can the Cryptic executive team, and put someone competent in charge of Cryptic. I guess it would depend on how much they locked themselves into this 18-24 month MMO development cycle. If they're stuck with it, then new people aren't going to make a bit of difference.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
When you decide to buy a Hundai because they compare themselves to Cadillac by saying, look they have an engine, we have an engine- they have pretty interior, we have pretty interior- they can cruise at 75mph, we can cruise at 75mph, but in the end all you have is a cheap knock off with an under-powered engine, cheap leather that cracks and peels and after a road trip of doing 75mph you have to collect all the parts that fell off your car from the vibration and visit a doctor for your kidney problems. The Bottom Line is Hundai is no Cadillac and STO is not an MMO let alone Star Trek.
Comments
If a game has potential, I think enough people will give a MMO a second chance to keep it around for a while. True, not enough to make a game a monster success, but enough to keep it alive. In STO's case, a "Welcome Back" weekend 3 months into launch, among other desperate marketing ploys, shows how much trouble they're in.
I gave LotRO a second chance after Moria and around SoM and now I'm a customer. I gave AoC a second chance around 1.05 update (where stats and gear finally mattered) and they kept me for a couple months, but I still found it lacking. Of course, in both those cases I was bored and probably wouldn't have if I was hooked on some other MMO lol. In Turbine and Funcom's cases, they had a good foundation to build on and I think they honestly tried to improve their games. IMO STO can't be saved due to an engine not suited to convey the vastness of space, generally uninspired design, and Cryptic's Ferengi-like business practices.
Not to mention you'd undoubtedly have to suffer yet another load screen to mount it, lol.
EDIT: @Darth: IMO, LOTRO and AoC (with expac) are the two top (mainstream) MMOs on the market today.
On a humorous note: Surfing the STO general discussion forums earlier, I saw a post from a user who was swearing up and down that STO was going to be 2011's game of the year. That one gave me a good laugh. Check it out (post #3): http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=158755
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
the one i laughed at today was a lifer asking why they were delaying the next patch on the grounds that it needed to be finished, when the entire game was launched unfinished and bugged. (and yes i know the argument makes no sense, but it was amusing)
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
AoC had WAY more content than STO upon release.
Much better gameplay mechanics too. I'd venture to say AoC had a ton more open potential than STO, therefore it was easier to improve their game.
STO on the other hand is just designed horribly in the first place, therefore really needing a complete overhaul and a "do-over".
That was the funniest thing I've read in quite a while.
That was awesomely funny.
ROFL!!! they need to get leonerd nimoy to do a voice over read of that with a you tube video!
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Nice find! This just confirms what people have been saying about Jackie-boy in relation to CoH from day one (of STO.)
I don't see the possibility. If they were worried about the problems they would of fixed Champions Online. They bagged Lifers in CO, they bagged Lifers in STO, and will most likely bag idiots in the next MMO they create.
They don't care about fixing the game long term, they want a quick fix and offer "quick fixes" to people to give them hope.
Good scheme wish I thought of it.
6 statements + 6 videos = cryptic got owned. Well I'm not going to give them any cash...any more... i said that the last time but now it will never happen again.
That's just the thing - according to coderanger, we just don't understand that the suits at Cryptic can say something and that's completely divorced from reality from what the coders are actually going to put in the game.
But...at the same time, we weren't lied to, and if we question the inconsistencies between coderanger's statements and the suits' statements, or dare ask for our money back, we're being abusive.
The customer is not right, que sera sera...
I can't believe the way the customer service paradigm has shifted with this industry.
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
More awesomeness displayed by Mr. Flowers over on the STO forums.
http://forums.startrekonline.com/showthread.php?t=159512
Its enjoyable to see how he picks them apart. Cryptic... hire this guy and fire about 10 or so people taking up space that Jacob could fill by his lonesome. A win/win situation.
good read. having said that pointing out the obvious is not going to get any response from cryptic that doesnt read
-your wrong
-you just dont get it
-or the response just doesnt address what the poster has said
its really sad that cryptic seems to be spending so much time fixing the way we think about there game rather than fixing the game.
having said that due much more to the posts of cryptics employee's rather than the games themselves i will not deal with them again. insulting customers with valid complaints is no way to entice me back to there products. at this point i view any atari product with a great deal of distrust, not just cryptic
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Surprise, surprise, the thread has been locked after less than a page's worth of discussion.
Cryptic is the most boneheaded and downright arrogant development studio I've ever seen.
I think we've done a pretty good job as a community of discussing this at length in the previous thread. We've looked at everyone's feedback and taken it to heart, but at this point we appear to be at an impasse. Jacob's opinion clearly can't be changed with the answers and information we're able to provide.
Do know, however, that we're always looking for new and interesting ways to get information to everyone, including our current players and future and former players of Star Trek Online. We're interested in developing those ideas with the community, but singular threads calling out specific individuals isn't a healthy way to go about doing that.
__________________
Rekhan
Marketing Guy Star Trek Online/Champions Online
Picard Song, Best Song
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as my post above says
-your wrong " Jacob's opinion clearly can't be changed"
-you just dont get it "the answers and information we're able to provide"
-and of course this short response to a wall of text (and it is worth reading even if it is long) doesnt respond to anything jacob said.
i dont blame rekhan, hes being paid to defend a product that is flawed and incomplete at best, and im sure he must know that.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
At this point i think they ran out of things to say. Its over .... !
Now STO go's into ICU ..untill the servers shut down.....!
We should know the truth of that, one way or the other, sometime later this year when Atari finally gets the 2009-2010 Q4 financial report out. It should be in Sept. or later; Atari has a abd habit of being late with those reports, a fact that has made NASDAQ delist Atari on several occasions.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I don't think Jacob's opinion will be changed because it is simply the truth. I say this as someone who's followed STO since the days it was under development by Perpetual, as someone who's read the official forums extensively, and as someone who has played the game.
I thought I had read somewhere their financials were due out on May 28th?
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
Sorry, somehow I missed this question when you posted it. Atari should have had its financial report out within a month after their 2009/2010 financial year ended (which happened on March 31, 2010), but they have a habit of being continuously late. For example, the new financial report I linked in another thread is a consolidated report for the couple of quarters that Atari didn't release specific reports for (Q3 and Q4 respectively). A search on the internet will show that Atari is habitually late with their financial reports, and frequently get delisted on NASDAQ because of it (going back on the list once they finally get the reports out). However they surprised me by getting the financial report for the year out this soon; going by their previous yearly reports, the earliest they usually get them out is September. I was actually just expecting the Q3 or possibly a combined Q3/Q4 report, with a yearly (2009/2010) report sometime in December.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
^ I had a lot of fun thinking about that. I just can't see how Atari wouldn't soon grow tierd of the BS and realize they're throwing good money after bad.
Maybe it's a great big tax write-off for them. I dunno.
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
Well Atari has been throwing good money after bad for quite some time before they acquired Cryptic, so I don't see that changing anytime soon. Then again, who knows? Perhaps the new people they have in charge will see the light, can the Cryptic executive team, and put someone competent in charge of Cryptic. I guess it would depend on how much they locked themselves into this 18-24 month MMO development cycle. If they're stuck with it, then new people aren't going to make a bit of difference.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
When you decide to buy a Hundai because they compare themselves to Cadillac by saying, look they have an engine, we have an engine- they have pretty interior, we have pretty interior- they can cruise at 75mph, we can cruise at 75mph, but in the end all you have is a cheap knock off with an under-powered engine, cheap leather that cracks and peels and after a road trip of doing 75mph you have to collect all the parts that fell off your car from the vibration and visit a doctor for your kidney problems. The Bottom Line is Hundai is no Cadillac and STO is not an MMO let alone Star Trek.