This surprises you? What about the way SOE has handled SWG made you think that they would not go out of their way to engage in repulsive business practices to screw the players and make money?
For better or for worse, in the 4 years (has it really been that long?) since the NGE< I have never even had the l east temptation to play a game made by SOE. What's really sad is after the hours I spent playing SWG (and doing simple inane things like chilling in Mos Eisley cantina or in a player city, or sending off a probe droid to look for a jedi in Kadorra - was that even its name?) I've never even really been able to play another thempark MMO. Ah well.
I can see having to pay money for wanting to transfer you toon from one server to another on a voluntary basis. But if you haven't played in awhile, resub, find out your server was shut down, and than are forced to pay for a server transfer?
Um, no.
Hell no.
SOE you stingy bastards. You should be ashamed of yourselves. Don't you know that by getting a couple of bucks in the short term will hurt you in the long term because most people will simply quit instead of dealing with this bullshit?
Shame on you SOE. Shame on you.
All those people already quit and claimed they would never come back, so why should SOE give a shit about them?
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling" Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
What I am complaining about is that we were not told about the free transfers ending on 17th May, and were misinforming other players, as SOE never told us, and getting egg on our faces.
I can understand the frustration, I posted here that people could get the transfers for free if they just logged a ticket but was well aware that the transfers were chargeable and this was just SoE Customer Services being able to waive the fee.
I assume that demand for these transfers increased to a point where they could not keep processing them free of charge, having to bring a server up to move the character sounds quite a labourious process.
For those with characters on closed servers, It might be worth giving this some time to blow over and trying your luck at a ticket to get your character on a closed server moved, just pretend you know nothing about any transfer fees.
After we kicked up a fuss of it yesterday, PMing and emailing Draakull and Customer Service Managers and so forth, they have now amended their knowledgbase.
Transfers off of closedservers are no longer free of charge, and a transfer fee will apply. The original guidelines set forth November 15 2009 as the end of free closed server transfers, but Customer Service held off on charging for them up through Monday, May 17, 2010. The original guidelines and stipulations can be seen in this forum post.
yep that sounds like SOE. why do you people keep playing their games? just let that damned company rot in the grave it dug for itself
So sad really. For those of us that still play and enjoy the game (yes there still are people that love the game) this is also heart breaking. The game is not what is wrong here, for it is still an enjoyable game. What is wrong is SOE. SOE does not really have any big money making MMO's now days. All of the games have around the same population and cost all the same. And with DC online on the way you would think they would try something new when it comes to listening and cost but no... They go and make it PS3 only, completely forgetting about PC users... Again I'm sure the game is going to be fun but again SOE makes a foolish mistake to kill a great game before it even takes off. Releasing a MMO console only is like releasing a new TV show on Friday nights, it doomed from the start.
For any returning player or those who have yet tried SWG I say try. You might enjoy it and try to look past SOE. Look at it this way, most people hate big oil companies but we still enjoy the gas.
I can only assume that a basic understanding of how businesses actually function is completely lacking from some in todays society. Customers are not endless. Reputation does stick with you (ask AT&T/Cingular). SoE should do everything they can to welcome back those who return because for every returning "disgruntled" a-hole vet, there are 20 or more who have never said a bad thing about SoE or SWG.
Thank you! At&t is a good example how people can and do look past a bad company yet enjoy a product. At&t has by far the worst custer service and coverage but folks love the I-phone. The same can go for SWG. Enjoy the game and try to look past the company that makes it.
Thank you! At&t is a good example how people can and do look past a bad company yet enjoy a product. At&t has by far the worst custer service and coverage but folks love the I-phone. The same can go for SWG. Enjoy the game and try to look past the company that makes it.
Yup! This just goes to prove that P.T. Barnum was as correct - "There's a sucker born every minute".
Tux, I think, hit the nail on the head with this one, though a little more bluntly than I might have said it.
After several years of having dealt with SOE/SCEI across multiple games (at least until about a year and a half ago, when I canceled all of my subscriptions to their games), there is little that they can do in terms of money that can really surprise or infuriate me anymore. I returned, briefly, during the vet trial to SWG when the GCW patch was launched, discovered that I still wasn't thrilled with the state of the game, and walked away, quite content in my decision to move on to other games.
The fact is that any company is about profit. Most companies give at least a cursory concern to the needs, wants, and desires of their customer base in the pursuit of that profit. In my experience, Sony gives the least amount of concern to the customers of most of the major multi-platform or multi-game companies.
Now, we can all sit here or on other forums and complain about how Sony is this or that and how Smedley is Satan incarnate or what have you. That's a reasonable course in that some companies do react to public consumer backlash in time. Sony, however, does not seem to be much affected, policy-wise, by bad publicity. Other companies might change a policy or issue a refund after bad publicity and consumer outcry. Sony only clarifies a policy after backlash, they do not change it and they only very rarely issue refunds (some have been extraordinarily lucky to have their subscription fees refunded on learning they could not play without paying for a transfer, something which I guarantee will no longer happen since the information has been posted publicly on the SWG forums since their company legal policy is that if the information is posted publicly, there will be no refunds).
In the case of Sony, past experience has proven that bad publicity does not achieve anything, nor does public or community outcry. Only consumers speaking with their wallets and affecting the company's bottom line does. Complain all you wish, but be prepared to back those complaints up with action as Tux has done, as I have done, and as thousands of others have done. And then be prepared to wait a few years for SOE/SCEI to realize that they did, in fact, make a mistake before they admit to it.
Just my two cents' worth, based on my 5 years or so experience in dealing with SOE.
TL;DR - don't be shocked or surprised by anything SOE does, especially where money is concerned. If you have a complaint, best voice it with your wallet, not your keyboard.
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
IMO, equating AT&T and SOE is an incorrect comparison. AT&T has the advantage over SOE in that it is essentially a necessary service. No matter how crappy its customer service, I am pretty much forced to use an AT&T phone because its is the only provider that has good service at the college campus. Further, everyone in this day and age needs a cellphone, and for those not in the know about customer service ("casuals" so to speak) AT&T is as good a bet as any.
SOE on the other hand is in a different situation. MMO players generally research the games they play before they commit to them because MMOs are not a necessary service. Having a crap product as well as having crap customer service (as in my opinion, SWG is a crap product and as this thread has showed, SOE literallly treats customers like class-A chumps) just doesn't fly. Further, it is a testament to how small scale MMOs really are that companies like SOE can get away with the stuff they pull. With its 87 million subcribers, if AT&T ever tried to completely change their core business with no warning, customers with contracts would take them to court. SOE has no such problem to deal with.
We have to bill you here on our side of the operation, then send it to in-game. We would do the transfers ourselves like all the others, but the servers aren't turned on. That's why the delay between the charge and the move. It's not ideal, but it's what we've got.
That is not the entire reason, as with most SOE statements, it is only of a half-truth.
The database system of SWG is very complex, as well as ineffecient, and SOE lacks the skillset to administer it effectively.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
It's somewhat unfair to trash SoE for this, Customer Services were quietly and altruistically providing a chargeable service to players for free for as long as they could. The announcement that charges were now not able to be waived could have been better handled, I agree.
What I am complaining about is that we were not told about the free transfers ending on 17th May, and were misinforming other players, as SOE never told us, and getting egg on our faces.
I can understand the frustration, I posted here that people could get the transfers for free if they just logged a ticket but was well aware that the transfers were chargeable and this was just SoE Customer Services being able to waive the fee.
I assume that demand for these transfers increased to a point where they could not keep processing them free of charge, having to bring a server up to move the character sounds quite a labourious process.
For those with characters on closed servers, It might be worth giving this some time to blow over and trying your luck at a ticket to get your character on a closed server moved, just pretend you know nothing about any transfer fees.
When you say they have to bring up a closed server, it makes sense for them to charge, but as long as they don't keep you waiting for the transfers, as some of the transfers that they did off of closed servers had taken a few weeks to do, as they just accumulated them all and them in one go. If you ended up sending in a ticket the day after they did it, you may end up waiting a long time to get your toons transfrered. If you sent in a ticket the day before they scheduled the transfers you would only wait a day.
Those on active servers will get transferred within 72 hours.
One thing I would do, if was in this position, is to make sure what their exact timeframe of getting the transfers done, and for them to add bonus time to the account if it ends up taking ages, for how ever long it takes to move the character, as when you have to pay $65-$165 to return and also lose a 1-3 weeks of the month, it all becomes so not worth it.
It's somewhat unfair to trash SoE for this, Customer Services were quietly and altruistically providing a chargeable service to players for free for as long as they could. The announcement that charges were now not able to be waived could have been better handled, I agree.
The latter, which you agree on, is the main reason for the complaints in the thread. If SOE kept to their FAQ and charged people on Oct 15th, that is their decision, and you could respect that.
But when they secretly change their agenda, and make them free without announcement, and then charge again, after many many many months. Over all that time people gather up the information that they are free, people then think that it is free permantntly, and it was done because SOE was getting more money from returning players on just $15, than trying to get people to pay $65-$165 which no one was doing, and eventually voids the free transfers ending statement in the FAQs for Oct 15th. Lasod was the one who told me that SOE saw they were unwise charging and transfers are 100% free, AFTER I caught wind that they were charging the other day! Then it lead to loads of threads on the forums, and PMS/emails to SOE staff, who posted amendments and the knowledgbase, as knew they were in the wrong.
Charging one minute and not the next, and secretly doing it is what lead to problems, and is where you can not trust SOE, and where they lose respect. If I had known that they were keeping the transfers free after Oct 15th, I would not have gotten so worked up to get all the transfers done in the month they gave. I could have easily have done it over the months, and brought them over gradually, instead of busting a gut, losing sleep to deal with 6 years of efforts on 1 month, and thej quitting from Oct-Feb as I had a gutful of the game within that month.
The best time for SOE to have charged for the transfers would have been straight after they closed on Oct 15th, as there was plenty of notice given to players to move, or for them to come back and move, so the time had gone. But anyon coming back now was so far out of it, these people are least likely have gotten any of those emails or saw those announcements, and may be back, because the 30th anniversary celebration reminded them of the game.
May 21st was the 30th anniversry, and 17th May was the day free transfers ended.- Food for thought!
The best time for SOE to have stopped the free transfers would be next month on the free month, then they wouldn't need to then refund the peoples $15, or better yet to have put a post in the Customer Service forums before May 17th to prevent us telling people its free, they then resub and pay $15, send in a ticket and then get charged the transfer fee when they were not expecting it as we the players told them it was free as were none the wiser, and because of that SOE deserve to be "trashed".
"Trashing" is not necessarily a bad thing for SOE, as then people can deal with them as they wish - can either leave them alone or use extreme caution. People who do not understand SOE will be the one getting into touble with SOE and feel as they got suckered, as you seem to understand that the transfers were chargeable but happened to be free, but a lot of people just thought SOE dropped the charges for good.
Another good thing with this is, that it is now giving us the edge to get the free transfers back, as was told by the CS Manager that he is looking into getting it free again, although SOE have said they are also looking it getting the transfer costs reduced, and that was months ago. But if they had have done things right, they may not be looking into getting transfers free again off closed servers.
It's somewhat unfair to trash SoE for this, Customer Services were quietly and altruistically providing a chargeable service to players for free for as long as they could. The announcement that charges were now not able to be waived could have been better handled, I agree.
Really? Altrustic on the part of soe?
Can you name one other mmo that has charged players to move off a server that was closed down?
This is not a case of soe being nice and letting people move to a new server for free. This is a case of soe closing down a players server and denying them access to their characters unless they pay $50 per character. There is no other way to spin that. Any other mmo that closes servers at least moves the a customers characters to a server that they can at least access.
I can't even believe you are trying to put lipstick on this and make it look like soe is doing players a favor.
Charging one minute and not the next, and secretly doing it is what lead to problems,
Well, I'm pretty sure Customer Services wont be doing free stuff like this again due to the problems it caused with the expectations of people like yourself.
Charging one minute and not the next, and secretly doing it is what lead to problems,
Well, I'm pretty sure Customer Services wont be doing free stuff like this again due to the problems it caused with the expectations of people like yourself.
If that is the case then that will be very childish, and do nothing but make their bad reputation even wors, but that is not the case as I've been told they are looking into making it free again. SOE knew they stuffed up, and doing whetever necessary to fix the situation.
Is posting information on the forums or letting at least the Senators, specificcally Lasod who helps new and returning players know the situation, such a problem?
Charging one minute and not the next, and secretly doing it is what lead to problems,
Well, I'm pretty sure Customer Services wont be doing free stuff like this again due to the problems it caused with the expectations of people like yourself.
Are you honestly saying that it is unreasonable for people to resubscribe to an mmo and expect not to be charged an additional $50 each to access their characters?
Is that really the cornerstone of your argument and what you would have peopel believe in order to make a company look like they are doing them a favor.
Perhaps the problem [yet again] doesn't fall onto the shoulders of the players, but with the choice of the company. Like when they decided not to transfer characters off a closed server to an active server and THEN decide to charge $50 to correct that situation.
While this is obviously despicable, the biggest issue was that one hand didnt know what the other was doing, or someone just didnt make the necessary updates or announcements. I highly doubt they were looking to screw people over intentionally with this. But, yes, they should have merged the servers, not closed them. There shouldnt be a need to transfer.
But my question is, what else has SoE done that people think this sort of thing is normal for them? Besides whatever happened between SoE and Lucas Arts with the NGE (why dont people have the hatred for Lucas Arts who more than likely did more to ruin SWG than SoE with the rushed release and desire to make it more 'star warsy' aka NGE), what has SoE done so bad?
Now granted Ive only really played EQ and EQ2, but I also know they kept Matrix Online around a couple more eyars than it would have without them, and Vanguard would quite possibly have never seen a release without SoE.
Stuff like their card game and cash shops? Well Blizzard opened those floodgates so you cant blame SoE for following, and also like Blizzard these things dont alter the game in any way other than cosmetically.
They update their two main games with expansions frequently, it was actually too frequently for a while.
Now they have some ineptitude for sure. They seem clueless about promoting their games. Their community relations are on par with the genre (which means overall poor with not enough feedback). But Ive seen very little to warrant the hate people give them.
While this is obviously despicable, the biggest issue was that one hand didnt know what the other was doing, or someone just didnt make the necessary updates or announcements. I highly doubt they were looking to screw people over intentionally with this. But, yes, they should have merged the servers, not closed them. There shouldnt be a need to transfer.
But my question is, what else has SoE done that people think this sort of thing is normal for them? Besides whatever happened between SoE and Lucas Arts with the NGE (why dont people have the hatred for Lucas Arts who more than likely did more to ruin SWG than SoE with the rushed release and desire to make it more 'star warsy' aka NGE), what has SoE done so bad?
Now granted Ive only really played EQ and EQ2, but I also know they kept Matrix Online around a couple more eyars than it would have without them, and Vanguard would quite possibly have never seen a release without SoE.
Stuff like their card game and cash shops? Well Blizzard opened those floodgates so you cant blame SoE for following, and also like Blizzard these things dont alter the game in any way other than cosmetically.
They update their two main games with expansions frequently, it was actually too frequently for a while.
Now they have some ineptitude for sure. They seem clueless about promoting their games. Their community relations are on par with the genre (which means overall poor with not enough feedback). But Ive seen very little to warrant the hate people give them.
SWG is the worst candidate for SOE behaviour. EQ games get the best attention as they are their "babies"
Last year, in Feb, I sent in a ticket once to SOE about being charged twice for resubbing, but they didn't belive me and took loads of emailing back and forth, getting more irate with each one, until someone decided to look into the matter, and when they did they saw that I did indeed get charged twice, and gave me a refund. It was from that point that made lose respect for SOE, CS, and just shows they treat all customers like dirt, because some probably do, but not all do, and is unprofessional to think with that attitude.
Then when they went to shut down the matrix, I think they did that around now, and announced it before the last weekend in May, they also stated that only active accounts on June 1st would be able to play for free in the last 2 months, and inactive players would not be able too. I sent in a ticket to get more info on the matter, and every reply was clueless about what was going on, as it was the weekend, but I needed to knjow before June 1st so I could resub in time and not miss out. I resubbed to Station Access, and lost my free month to EQ2, and then they changed their minds, as it looks like they had loads of complaints on it, and allowed everyone free access for the last 2 months, so I did not need to sub to Station Access in the end.
Half the things they do, I think they do in on puirpose, then when enough people kick up a stink over it, they then change their minds. If not many do, then keep things as is.
It all just boils down to lack of information, and short notices.
Thats just a couple of things, there are more, but will be here all day!
Are you honestly saying that it is unreasonable for people to resubscribe to an mmo and expect not to be charged an additional $50 each to access their characters?
That's what people pay to move a charcter from one live server to another, SWG players pay that price all the time.
I do hope they make it free again, superniceguy. That they managed to keep it free for 18 months was a good deal.
Are you honestly saying that it is unreasonable for people to resubscribe to an mmo and expect not to be charged an additional $50 each to access their characters?
That's what people pay to move a charcter from one live server to another, SWG players pay that price all the time.
I do hope they make it free again, superniceguy. That they managed to keep it free for 18 months was a good deal.
Yes from one live server to another live server. Do you really not see the difference? This is not a case of a player making a CHOICE to move their character and paying an additional fee. This is a case of a company removing access to a players characters unless they pay $50.
Are you honestly saying that it is unreasonable for people to resubscribe to an mmo and expect not to be charged an additional $50 each to access their characters?
That's what people pay to move a charcter from one live server to another, SWG players pay that price all the time.
I do hope they make it free again, superniceguy. That they managed to keep it free for 18 months was a good deal.
It should be free to move from a closed server to active server, as the better deal would be to still play on Valcyn. I would pay $5000 per charcter to be able to transfer to Valcyn, and rollback to Sep 15th
Losing Valcyn and being shoved oin to another server, which I have still not settled into yet, was the biggest pain I have ever experienced in something that is supposed to be fun.
People pay to transfer from active to active servers, because that is their choice. People returning on closed servers to just play again, and requires a transfer is NOT the players choice, it is a requirement. Sticking on a dead server (as in low populated and not enough people to do stuff with that you want to do) because you don't want to pay the hefty $50 price to an active server, is the players choice, and a lot of players don't, because the transfer price is ridiculously high as it is, but to enforce people to HAVE to pay that same fee on a closed server is an outrage.
Charging one minute and not the next, and secretly doing it is what lead to problems,
Well, I'm pretty sure Customer Services wont be doing free stuff like this again due to the problems it caused with the expectations of people like yourself.
Lets hope so! You're so right, Customer Service is far too busy doing other stuff to be bothered with petty stuff like a returning customer. The best way for them to handle this is to give a huge FU to all their customers by NEVER EVER offering anything for free again. In fact, if you don't renew your sub, I say they should delete your account and cancel your CD key. That way, you'll be forced to buy a new copy of the game if you ever take a "break".
Brilliant idea Badger!!! I honestly hope they take your advice and give a huge 'FU' to all their customers (again).
It's somewhat unfair to trash SoE for this, Customer Services were quietly and altruistically providing a chargeable service to players for free for as long as they could. The announcement that charges were now not able to be waived could have been better handled, I agree.
There are some basic IT questions that you should be asking about all of this:
- Why is the data being stored on dead hardware?
- Why is the data not being stored on an easy to access mass storage system?
- Why is the data transfer not part of an automated process of exporting and importing?
- Why is there hardware not being utilized, be for prototyping, developing, testing, or donated for tax purposes?
- Why such the high price for a data transfer?
- Why the wide range of time for data transfers?
Here is a hint. When a company lacks the expert skillset for a given task, a company will then ...
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
Comments
This surprises you? What about the way SOE has handled SWG made you think that they would not go out of their way to engage in repulsive business practices to screw the players and make money?
For better or for worse, in the 4 years (has it really been that long?) since the NGE< I have never even had the l east temptation to play a game made by SOE. What's really sad is after the hours I spent playing SWG (and doing simple inane things like chilling in Mos Eisley cantina or in a player city, or sending off a probe droid to look for a jedi in Kadorra - was that even its name?) I've never even really been able to play another thempark MMO. Ah well.
All those people already quit and claimed they would never come back, so why should SOE give a shit about them?
Apparently stating the truth in my sig is "trolling"
Sig typo fixed thanks to an observant stragen001.
I can understand the frustration, I posted here that people could get the transfers for free if they just logged a ticket but was well aware that the transfers were chargeable and this was just SoE Customer Services being able to waive the fee.
I assume that demand for these transfers increased to a point where they could not keep processing them free of charge, having to bring a server up to move the character sounds quite a labourious process.
For those with characters on closed servers, It might be worth giving this some time to blow over and trying your luck at a ticket to get your character on a closed server moved, just pretend you know nothing about any transfer fees.
yep that sounds like SOE. why do you people keep playing their games? just let that damned company rot in the grave it dug for itself
So sad really. For those of us that still play and enjoy the game (yes there still are people that love the game) this is also heart breaking. The game is not what is wrong here, for it is still an enjoyable game. What is wrong is SOE. SOE does not really have any big money making MMO's now days. All of the games have around the same population and cost all the same. And with DC online on the way you would think they would try something new when it comes to listening and cost but no... They go and make it PS3 only, completely forgetting about PC users... Again I'm sure the game is going to be fun but again SOE makes a foolish mistake to kill a great game before it even takes off. Releasing a MMO console only is like releasing a new TV show on Friday nights, it doomed from the start.
For any returning player or those who have yet tried SWG I say try. You might enjoy it and try to look past SOE. Look at it this way, most people hate big oil companies but we still enjoy the gas.
This is by far the best reply so far!
I can only assume that a basic understanding of how businesses actually function is completely lacking from some in todays society. Customers are not endless. Reputation does stick with you (ask AT&T/Cingular). SoE should do everything they can to welcome back those who return because for every returning "disgruntled" a-hole vet, there are 20 or more who have never said a bad thing about SoE or SWG.
Thank you! At&t is a good example how people can and do look past a bad company yet enjoy a product. At&t has by far the worst custer service and coverage but folks love the I-phone. The same can go for SWG. Enjoy the game and try to look past the company that makes it.
Yup! This just goes to prove that P.T. Barnum was as correct - "There's a sucker born every minute".
Tux, I think, hit the nail on the head with this one, though a little more bluntly than I might have said it.
After several years of having dealt with SOE/SCEI across multiple games (at least until about a year and a half ago, when I canceled all of my subscriptions to their games), there is little that they can do in terms of money that can really surprise or infuriate me anymore. I returned, briefly, during the vet trial to SWG when the GCW patch was launched, discovered that I still wasn't thrilled with the state of the game, and walked away, quite content in my decision to move on to other games.
The fact is that any company is about profit. Most companies give at least a cursory concern to the needs, wants, and desires of their customer base in the pursuit of that profit. In my experience, Sony gives the least amount of concern to the customers of most of the major multi-platform or multi-game companies.
Now, we can all sit here or on other forums and complain about how Sony is this or that and how Smedley is Satan incarnate or what have you. That's a reasonable course in that some companies do react to public consumer backlash in time. Sony, however, does not seem to be much affected, policy-wise, by bad publicity. Other companies might change a policy or issue a refund after bad publicity and consumer outcry. Sony only clarifies a policy after backlash, they do not change it and they only very rarely issue refunds (some have been extraordinarily lucky to have their subscription fees refunded on learning they could not play without paying for a transfer, something which I guarantee will no longer happen since the information has been posted publicly on the SWG forums since their company legal policy is that if the information is posted publicly, there will be no refunds).
In the case of Sony, past experience has proven that bad publicity does not achieve anything, nor does public or community outcry. Only consumers speaking with their wallets and affecting the company's bottom line does. Complain all you wish, but be prepared to back those complaints up with action as Tux has done, as I have done, and as thousands of others have done. And then be prepared to wait a few years for SOE/SCEI to realize that they did, in fact, make a mistake before they admit to it.
Just my two cents' worth, based on my 5 years or so experience in dealing with SOE.
TL;DR - don't be shocked or surprised by anything SOE does, especially where money is concerned. If you have a complaint, best voice it with your wallet, not your keyboard.
Firebrand Art
"You are obviously confusing a mature rating with actual maturity." -Asherman
Maybe MMO is not your genre, go play Modern Warfare...or something you can be all twitchy...and rank up all night. This is seriously getting tired. -Ranyr
IMO, equating AT&T and SOE is an incorrect comparison. AT&T has the advantage over SOE in that it is essentially a necessary service. No matter how crappy its customer service, I am pretty much forced to use an AT&T phone because its is the only provider that has good service at the college campus. Further, everyone in this day and age needs a cellphone, and for those not in the know about customer service ("casuals" so to speak) AT&T is as good a bet as any.
SOE on the other hand is in a different situation. MMO players generally research the games they play before they commit to them because MMOs are not a necessary service. Having a crap product as well as having crap customer service (as in my opinion, SWG is a crap product and as this thread has showed, SOE literallly treats customers like class-A chumps) just doesn't fly. Further, it is a testament to how small scale MMOs really are that companies like SOE can get away with the stuff they pull. With its 87 million subcribers, if AT&T ever tried to completely change their core business with no warning, customers with contracts would take them to court. SOE has no such problem to deal with.
That is not the entire reason, as with most SOE statements, it is only of a half-truth.
The database system of SWG is very complex, as well as ineffecient, and SOE lacks the skillset to administer it effectively.
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.
It's somewhat unfair to trash SoE for this, Customer Services were quietly and altruistically providing a chargeable service to players for free for as long as they could. The announcement that charges were now not able to be waived could have been better handled, I agree.
When you say they have to bring up a closed server, it makes sense for them to charge, but as long as they don't keep you waiting for the transfers, as some of the transfers that they did off of closed servers had taken a few weeks to do, as they just accumulated them all and them in one go. If you ended up sending in a ticket the day after they did it, you may end up waiting a long time to get your toons transfrered. If you sent in a ticket the day before they scheduled the transfers you would only wait a day.
Those on active servers will get transferred within 72 hours.
One thing I would do, if was in this position, is to make sure what their exact timeframe of getting the transfers done, and for them to add bonus time to the account if it ends up taking ages, for how ever long it takes to move the character, as when you have to pay $65-$165 to return and also lose a 1-3 weeks of the month, it all becomes so not worth it.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
The latter, which you agree on, is the main reason for the complaints in the thread. If SOE kept to their FAQ and charged people on Oct 15th, that is their decision, and you could respect that.
But when they secretly change their agenda, and make them free without announcement, and then charge again, after many many many months. Over all that time people gather up the information that they are free, people then think that it is free permantntly, and it was done because SOE was getting more money from returning players on just $15, than trying to get people to pay $65-$165 which no one was doing, and eventually voids the free transfers ending statement in the FAQs for Oct 15th. Lasod was the one who told me that SOE saw they were unwise charging and transfers are 100% free, AFTER I caught wind that they were charging the other day! Then it lead to loads of threads on the forums, and PMS/emails to SOE staff, who posted amendments and the knowledgbase, as knew they were in the wrong.
Charging one minute and not the next, and secretly doing it is what lead to problems, and is where you can not trust SOE, and where they lose respect. If I had known that they were keeping the transfers free after Oct 15th, I would not have gotten so worked up to get all the transfers done in the month they gave. I could have easily have done it over the months, and brought them over gradually, instead of busting a gut, losing sleep to deal with 6 years of efforts on 1 month, and thej quitting from Oct-Feb as I had a gutful of the game within that month.
The best time for SOE to have charged for the transfers would have been straight after they closed on Oct 15th, as there was plenty of notice given to players to move, or for them to come back and move, so the time had gone. But anyon coming back now was so far out of it, these people are least likely have gotten any of those emails or saw those announcements, and may be back, because the 30th anniversary celebration reminded them of the game.
May 21st was the 30th anniversry, and 17th May was the day free transfers ended.- Food for thought!
The best time for SOE to have stopped the free transfers would be next month on the free month, then they wouldn't need to then refund the peoples $15, or better yet to have put a post in the Customer Service forums before May 17th to prevent us telling people its free, they then resub and pay $15, send in a ticket and then get charged the transfer fee when they were not expecting it as we the players told them it was free as were none the wiser, and because of that SOE deserve to be "trashed".
"Trashing" is not necessarily a bad thing for SOE, as then people can deal with them as they wish - can either leave them alone or use extreme caution. People who do not understand SOE will be the one getting into touble with SOE and feel as they got suckered, as you seem to understand that the transfers were chargeable but happened to be free, but a lot of people just thought SOE dropped the charges for good.
Another good thing with this is, that it is now giving us the edge to get the free transfers back, as was told by the CS Manager that he is looking into getting it free again, although SOE have said they are also looking it getting the transfer costs reduced, and that was months ago. But if they had have done things right, they may not be looking into getting transfers free again off closed servers.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Really? Altrustic on the part of soe?
Can you name one other mmo that has charged players to move off a server that was closed down?
This is not a case of soe being nice and letting people move to a new server for free. This is a case of soe closing down a players server and denying them access to their characters unless they pay $50 per character. There is no other way to spin that. Any other mmo that closes servers at least moves the a customers characters to a server that they can at least access.
I can't even believe you are trying to put lipstick on this and make it look like soe is doing players a favor.
Well, I'm pretty sure Customer Services wont be doing free stuff like this again due to the problems it caused with the expectations of people like yourself.
If that is the case then that will be very childish, and do nothing but make their bad reputation even wors, but that is not the case as I've been told they are looking into making it free again. SOE knew they stuffed up, and doing whetever necessary to fix the situation.
Is posting information on the forums or letting at least the Senators, specificcally Lasod who helps new and returning players know the situation, such a problem?
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Are you honestly saying that it is unreasonable for people to resubscribe to an mmo and expect not to be charged an additional $50 each to access their characters?
Is that really the cornerstone of your argument and what you would have peopel believe in order to make a company look like they are doing them a favor.
Perhaps the problem [yet again] doesn't fall onto the shoulders of the players, but with the choice of the company. Like when they decided not to transfer characters off a closed server to an active server and THEN decide to charge $50 to correct that situation.
Im just curious...
While this is obviously despicable, the biggest issue was that one hand didnt know what the other was doing, or someone just didnt make the necessary updates or announcements. I highly doubt they were looking to screw people over intentionally with this. But, yes, they should have merged the servers, not closed them. There shouldnt be a need to transfer.
But my question is, what else has SoE done that people think this sort of thing is normal for them? Besides whatever happened between SoE and Lucas Arts with the NGE (why dont people have the hatred for Lucas Arts who more than likely did more to ruin SWG than SoE with the rushed release and desire to make it more 'star warsy' aka NGE), what has SoE done so bad?
Now granted Ive only really played EQ and EQ2, but I also know they kept Matrix Online around a couple more eyars than it would have without them, and Vanguard would quite possibly have never seen a release without SoE.
Stuff like their card game and cash shops? Well Blizzard opened those floodgates so you cant blame SoE for following, and also like Blizzard these things dont alter the game in any way other than cosmetically.
They update their two main games with expansions frequently, it was actually too frequently for a while.
Now they have some ineptitude for sure. They seem clueless about promoting their games. Their community relations are on par with the genre (which means overall poor with not enough feedback). But Ive seen very little to warrant the hate people give them.
SWG is the worst candidate for SOE behaviour. EQ games get the best attention as they are their "babies"
Last year, in Feb, I sent in a ticket once to SOE about being charged twice for resubbing, but they didn't belive me and took loads of emailing back and forth, getting more irate with each one, until someone decided to look into the matter, and when they did they saw that I did indeed get charged twice, and gave me a refund. It was from that point that made lose respect for SOE, CS, and just shows they treat all customers like dirt, because some probably do, but not all do, and is unprofessional to think with that attitude.
Then when they went to shut down the matrix, I think they did that around now, and announced it before the last weekend in May, they also stated that only active accounts on June 1st would be able to play for free in the last 2 months, and inactive players would not be able too. I sent in a ticket to get more info on the matter, and every reply was clueless about what was going on, as it was the weekend, but I needed to knjow before June 1st so I could resub in time and not miss out. I resubbed to Station Access, and lost my free month to EQ2, and then they changed their minds, as it looks like they had loads of complaints on it, and allowed everyone free access for the last 2 months, so I did not need to sub to Station Access in the end.
Half the things they do, I think they do in on puirpose, then when enough people kick up a stink over it, they then change their minds. If not many do, then keep things as is.
It all just boils down to lack of information, and short notices.
Thats just a couple of things, there are more, but will be here all day!
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
That's what people pay to move a charcter from one live server to another, SWG players pay that price all the time.
I do hope they make it free again, superniceguy. That they managed to keep it free for 18 months was a good deal.
Yes from one live server to another live server. Do you really not see the difference? This is not a case of a player making a CHOICE to move their character and paying an additional fee. This is a case of a company removing access to a players characters unless they pay $50.
Calling it a good deal is really funny.
It should be free to move from a closed server to active server, as the better deal would be to still play on Valcyn. I would pay $5000 per charcter to be able to transfer to Valcyn, and rollback to Sep 15th
Losing Valcyn and being shoved oin to another server, which I have still not settled into yet, was the biggest pain I have ever experienced in something that is supposed to be fun.
People pay to transfer from active to active servers, because that is their choice. People returning on closed servers to just play again, and requires a transfer is NOT the players choice, it is a requirement. Sticking on a dead server (as in low populated and not enough people to do stuff with that you want to do) because you don't want to pay the hefty $50 price to an active server, is the players choice, and a lot of players don't, because the transfer price is ridiculously high as it is, but to enforce people to HAVE to pay that same fee on a closed server is an outrage.
Star Trek Online - Best Free MMORPG of 2012
Lets hope so! You're so right, Customer Service is far too busy doing other stuff to be bothered with petty stuff like a returning customer. The best way for them to handle this is to give a huge FU to all their customers by NEVER EVER offering anything for free again. In fact, if you don't renew your sub, I say they should delete your account and cancel your CD key. That way, you'll be forced to buy a new copy of the game if you ever take a "break".
Brilliant idea Badger!!! I honestly hope they take your advice and give a huge 'FU' to all their customers (again).
There are some basic IT questions that you should be asking about all of this:
- Why is the data being stored on dead hardware?
- Why is the data not being stored on an easy to access mass storage system?
- Why is the data transfer not part of an automated process of exporting and importing?
- Why is there hardware not being utilized, be for prototyping, developing, testing, or donated for tax purposes?
- Why such the high price for a data transfer?
- Why the wide range of time for data transfers?
Here is a hint. When a company lacks the expert skillset for a given task, a company will then ...
And that is why...
Conservatives' pessimism is conducive to their happiness in three ways. First, they are rarely surprised -- they are right more often than not about the course of events. Second, when they are wrong they are happy to be so. Third, because pessimistic conservatives put not their faith in princes -- government -- they accept that happiness is a function of fending for oneself. They believe that happiness is an activity -- it is inseparable from the pursuit of happiness.