Are you serious? Two games that come to mind are Warhammer and Planetside, in which you can be competetive right out of the box in PvP (in WAR at least in your level bracket). You can level a toon from 0 to 80 in WoW in a month, spend a few weeks gearing up, and then start arena'ing.
It's really sad that for a "sandbox" game, you need to PvE/crafter/harvester grind for 6 mos. - 1 year to be competitive. That's why I quit DF - I refuse to grind for 6+ mos. just to be able to really enjoy the game. It's really sad too, because there is a lot right with DF. It's lot like Eve really, in which you can never catch up to a veteran's skills, but at least in Eve you can master a certain ship type and necessary skills in a few months.
Lol, man, in 2 weeks in WoW you'll get a gear good enough to gank noobs in starting locations. Stop saying bs. 1.5 months WoW toon with battleground's crap is equal to 300 hp DF one with 50 GS mastery and a few magic schools on 100. And in both cases it takes a pretty hardcore attitude.
And 80% of damage output in DFO depends on gear. Which can be acquired even by a 1 day noob (if he has enough money of course, but money is the least problem in the game).
And no, you don't need all skills. I have no magic aside from healing. I'm Indestructable though so I couldn't use magic anyway...
Are you serious? Two games that come to mind are Warhammer and Planetside, in which you can be competetive right out of the box in PvP (in WAR at least in your level bracket). You can level a toon from 0 to 80 in WoW in a month, spend a few weeks gearing up, and then start arena'ing.
It's really sad that for a "sandbox" game, you need to PvE/crafter/harvester grind for 6 mos. - 1 year to be competitive. That's why I quit DF - I refuse to grind for 6+ mos. just to be able to really enjoy the game. It's really sad too, because there is a lot right with DF.
It's lot like Eve really, in which you can never catch up to a veteran's skills, but at least in Eve you can master a certain ship type and necessary skills in a few months.
Lol, man, in 2 weeks in WoW you'll get a gear good enough to gank noobs in starting locations. Stop saying bs. 1.5 months WoW toon with battleground's crap is equal to 300 hp DF one with 50 GS mastery and a few magic schools on 100. And in both cases it takes a pretty hardcore attitude.
What? First of all, no one in WoW PvPs even on a PvP server before roughly level 30. Noob zones and secondary zones (westfall, barrens, etc.) are pvp protected. You must not have played WoW in a while, because ganking never happens in noob zones.
Second of all, you can very leisurely level to 80 in a month, then spend a little while gearing up for PvP. Once you get good enough gear to START arena (remember pvp gear in WoW is seperate from raid gear) what really matters is skill, and having the right FoTM class/talent spec + partner to be competetive. You may not win the arena championship, but at least you'll be competetive.
Of course, you ignored my other two examples. You can install Planetside, log in, pick a few certs, and kill a 3 year veteran within 10 minutes of creating your character with nothing but FPS twitch "skill". In WAR, you can create your guy and be PvPing in battlegrounds after 10 levels or so (like 2 hours work if that).
And 80% of damage output in DFO depends on gear. Which can be acquired even by a 1 day noob (if he has enough money of course).
The first sentence is ridiculous (A Noob has NO weapon skills at all, just auto attack), and even if it was true, it wouldn't matter, because vets have the added advantage of much higher HP, a plethora of extra skills, not to mention magic. It doesn't matter how much damage you can do when your opponent can just heal himself up to full.
Of course, noobs don't have money at all. That's why they are noobs. Then again, in WoW, and WAR, and Planetside, you don't need to buy/craft gear every time someone kills you and loots your corpse. And of course any noob in DF that would spend a hard day's earned gold on a suit of armor would be tremendously stupid for two reasons: they would get ganked and have their gear taken just the same except a little slower, and they wouldn't be able to replace it.
There's a saying in Eve that goes with DF as well - don't fly it if you can't afford to replace it. At least in Eve you can insure your ship. Sigh.
Hehe, as I see you know nothing not only of DFO, but WoW as well. I was Warlord (13 PvP rank) and gladiator in WoW. Yeah, I stopped playing it 1.5 years ago. Perhaps it's become easier to reach 80 lvl now (for me it took a month of pretty hardcore playing), but you still need a lot to farm a decent gear. I mean in 2 weeks of casual playing you can perhaps earn 2-3 pieces of crappy (2 tiers below the top) arena sets. If hardcore, you perhaps are able to get a full set. But as I said it's only good to gank noobs...
Man, it takes a week of semi-hardcore playing to get a mastery in any weapon. It takes another week to get 50 mastery. And a toon with 50 mastery hits pretty hard, if his weapon is good. His damage is perhaps 20-25% lower than a veteran's one (if veteran has good strength and 100 mastery), but you can't compare it to WoW, where a 2 weeks toon can't even scratch a gladiator...
Hehe, as I see you know nothing not only of DFO, but WoW as well. I was Warlord (13 PvP rank) and gladiator in WoW. Yeah, I stopped playing it 1.5 years ago. Perhaps it's become easier to reach 80 lvl now (for me it took a month of pretty hardcore playing), but you still need a lot to farm a decent gear. I mean in 2 weeks of casual playing you can perhaps earn 2-3 pieces of crappy (2 tiers below the top) arena sets. If hardcore, you perhaps are able to get a full set. But as I said it's only good to gank noobs...
Man, it takes a week of semi-hardcore playing to get a mastery in any weapon. It takes another week to get 50 mastery. And a toon with 50 mastery hits pretty hard, if his weapon is good. His damage is perhaps 20-25% lower than a veteran's one (if veteran has good strength and 100 mastery), but you can't compare it to WoW, where a 2 weeks toon can't even scratch a gladiator...
You forget the difference in HP and Spells. Without spells and HP pool you are pretty fucked up in DF. Dont deny it. Rarely seen people fighting in seiges, raids melee as you A) block other from doing dmg to the oponent You will kiss the ground pretty fast, as if you even kill the enemy you will get nuked to death. Most fights in DF are and will be magic wise. You can kite a melee guy easy going by using your utility spells (shrapnel, bubble, flash etc).
Its funny if you think DF and WoW got more similaritys then i first thought. Everyone is a clone of other as at the end there is only 1 template and same gear. Both have en masse PvE, except in WoW its called content. In both games newbs are pretty fucked up except in WoW you can have pvp within 1 day and having fun by killing others (bgs).
WoW vanilla (world pvp, before bgs were introduced) was the best pvp ive experienced. Ah i remember the first pvp areas!
Hehe, as I see you know nothing not only of DFO, but WoW as well. I was Warlord (13 PvP rank) and gladiator in WoW. Yeah, I stopped playing it 1.5 years ago. Perhaps it's become easier to reach 80 lvl now (for me it took a month of pretty hardcore playing), but you still need a lot to farm a decent gear. I mean in 2 weeks of casual playing you can perhaps earn 2-3 pieces of crappy (2 tiers below the top) arena sets. If hardcore, you perhaps are able to get a full set. But as I said it's only good to gank noobs...
I said two weeks after 80 you can START arena'ing. You won't win the whole contest, but you'll at least be competitive enough in your bracket to move up. It is a lot easier to to level up, all the 1-60 content has been made easier, xp gain is faster, plus the buddy level program.
And like I said, even on a PvP server, there is no ganking of noobs, unless you consider someone above level 30 a noob. Noob zones and secondary noob zones are PvP protected. You have to manually flag yourself for PvP. There is NO ganking of noobs in level 1-25/30 zones. There never has been. Even above level 30, you get no honor for killing people 10 levels lower than you, so the only ganking going on by level 80 players is on other level 70-80 players in Northrend.
PvP in WoW is designed so that you face others of your level, unlike DF. Level 80 players don't patrol the Stonetalon Mountains ganking level 35 players. It doesn't happen because there is no reward, unlike in Darkfall.
Originally posted by Kshahdoo Hehe, as I see you know nothing not only of DFO, but WoW as well. I was Warlord (13 PvP rank) and gladiator in WoW. Yeah, I stopped playing it 1.5 years ago. Perhaps it's become easier to reach 80 lvl now (for me it took a month of pretty hardcore playing), but you still need a lot to farm a decent gear. I mean in 2 weeks of casual playing you can perhaps earn 2-3 pieces of crappy (2 tiers below the top) arena sets. If hardcore, you perhaps are able to get a full set. But as I said it's only good to gank noobs...
I said two weeks after 80 you can START arena'ing. You won't win the whole contest, but you'll at least be competitive enough in your bracket to move up. It is a lot easier to to level up, all the 1-60 content has been made easier, xp gain is faster, plus the buddy level program. And like I said, even on a PvP server, there is no ganking of noobs, unless you consider someone above level 30 a noob. Noob zones and secondary noob zones are PvP protected. You have to manually flag yourself for PvP. There is NO ganking of noobs in level 1-25/30 zones. There never has been. Even above level 30, you get no honor for killing people 10 levels lower than you, so the only ganking going on by level 80 players is on other level 70-80 players in Northrend. PvP in WoW is designed so that you face others of your level, unlike DF. Level 80 players don't patrol the Stonetalon Mountains ganking level 35 players. It doesn't happen because there is no reward, unlike in Darkfall.
Lol, there is no noob ganking in WoW because all noobs are in cities and towns. You don't nowdays need leaving them to level up thanks to x-server instanses... And begining Arenas is nothing. Just try to beat any gladiator solo, and you will die much faster than a 1 month noob vs a veteran in DFO...
Originally posted by Xianthos You forget the difference in HP and Spells. Without spells and HP pool you are pretty fucked up in DF. Dont deny it. Rarely seen people fighting in seiges, raids melee as you A) block other from doing dmg to the oponent You will kiss the ground pretty fast, as if you even kill the enemy you will get nuked to death. Most fights in DF are and will be magic wise. You can kite a melee guy easy going by using your utility spells (shrapnel, bubble, flash etc).
Its funny if you think DF and WoW got more similaritys then i first thought. Everyone is a clone of other as at the end there is only 1 template and same gear. Both have en masse PvE, except in WoW its called content. In both games newbs are pretty fucked up except in WoW you can have pvp within 1 day and having fun by killing others (bgs).
WoW vanilla (world pvp, before bgs were introduced) was the best pvp ive experienced. Ah i remember the first pvp areas!
Why are you complaining about HP when they are revamping it next week? Nukers are OP for sieging and they will always be no matter how many classes or whatever they come up with. When it comes to 1vs1, no nuke is needed.
Also whats this about being able to kill others in WOW on day one and not in Darkfall? LOL
Speak for yourself buddy. Some of us did go out and PVP from day 1 and did fine and still do. I have been playing for over a year and have maybe grind a total of 2 weeks to reach 75 polearm mastery and to get witchesbrew. Nothing else was needed to dominate others and long as you know how to counter magic and are not afraid to wear gear. A couple friends of mine log in for PVP everytime that they play pretty much (not for PVE) . .. maybe we'd kill mobs instead like once a week at the very most? Every night for a very long time we would go out and PVP without grinding and always made good scores.
If you log into Darkfall for your first day it is going to take you awhile to get used to the controls and to customize your setup. On day 1 you will be struggling to kill your first goblin unlike WOW which is very easy in comparison. If you knew how to play however you could make quite a killing on your first day . .. go on a harvester route and check noob spawns. I actually enjoy going out on a PVP session on a noob more sometimes because it is a lot more challenging and a lot more stealth and paranoia is needed. Sinister maps tell you almost everything that you need to know. As long as you see enemies before they see you, getting away wouldnt be hard at all.
Some of us did this at the beginning and have rerolled since then and did it again. PVPed on day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5 . .. of course the population was higher back then but I died less back then that I do now. I think it died on average once a week (only a few times total have I been beat by one guy but usually beat by zerg) because getting away was the first thing that I learned. You do not need to grind but you do need HP so swimming or harvesting was needed but after the HP revamp you should be good to go from day one (or as long as it takes for you to learn how to play well). Now that the population has dropped down again (actually I have seen nothing but LOTS of action lately . .. the land was littered with dozens of tombstones everywhere the last time that I logged, pop is really starting to boom again!) I spend most of my time collecting mats for enchanting but still get plenty of PVP, almost more so than I would be going out and looking for it . ..
I bet that you cannot name one game that is funner to PVP on day one. I have a lot of fun playing this game on a new character, even for the PVP. Sure I will be running from most people but compared to other noobs I get to make much more money and have more fun than I would have by kiling goblins (thanks to AFK harvesters). Villages are usually empty now adays so capping one for a brand new person would be easy and a great income.
Please tell me what game is more enjoyable to PVP on your first day because I would very much like to play it while I am harvesting or something. I have been looking hard but have not found a funner game than Darkfall.
Oh I play with those who macroed since day 1 as well sometimes and duel often . .. at first I always won (simply had more PVP experience from going out everyday instead of macroing) but now it is usually half of the time I will win. I did have to swim and harvest for HP but after next week it should be easier for other people to just PVP without grinding like I have done a few times. My most developed character has 385 hp but shit for skills . .. to be honest the only skill that I want high right now is confusion because I am going to remain primary melee.
It does not matter how much more people have macroed than you it is not going to teach them how to play. Back on EU before the grind was reduced, it would seriously take years of macroing to get a character as developed as the few that you mentioned before, those ahead of you are not as ahead as you seem to think. People are passing you up who started after you I am sure since I see in these forums often (unless you are Alt+Tabbed). When my buddy was done maxing his character while the rest of us PVPed, he totally sucked when he was finally ready to stop macroing and play . ..
Stop lying to yourself. You dont need every spell surging to win a fight. The grind to get the necessities needed to kill someone with surging nukes doesnt take long at all . ... actually it may take more practice than the amount of time that it takes to just get the hp and skill. Those guys that you mentioned being all leet and macroing for a year are not going to be found. Maybe if you siege you may come across one . .. with all of his friends so you will lose anyways.
I was not referring to sieging at all when I say that you dont need to grind to win. I am talking about small-scale like harvesting runs, raiding cities/hamlets, etc.
Thinking that the best players skipped the grind is very ignorant . .. those guys probably hit people on a blood wall for a month straight just to get their melee mastery. Yes the grind was so bad that someone a year later would be able to catch up very very easily. I wouldnt expect you to get this since you werent there but it is much easier for you to catch up to these guys now than it would have been trying to do it by macroing on EU before the grind was fixed . .. thats why these guys say that you can catch up in a month. What they did at the beginning was insignificant because the grind was 6 times worse and yes you could catch up in only a month or two if macroing was legal but its not so it will take 4 months. They spend longer than 4 months of macroing, at least you will never have to deal with that!
I am so sick of hearing about the grind in DFO. Please stop whinning.
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Speak for yourself buddy. Some of us did go out and PVP from day 1 and did fine and still do. I have been playing for over a year and have maybe grind a total of 2 weeks to reach 75 polearm mastery and to get witchesbrew. Nothing else was needed to dominate others and long as you know how to counter magic and are not afraid to wear gear. A couple friends of mine log in for PVP everytime that they play pretty much (not for PVE) . .. maybe we'd kill mobs instead like once a week at the very most? Every night for a very long time we would go out and PVP without grinding and always made good scores.
On day 1 (release) i could pvp aswell a lot in DF. Yeah thats true, but its aint true anymore, as now as a fresh char you are fucked up. Please stop being die hard fanboy and dont start to deny this fact. If you deny this, you will be just one more person besides tasos on ignore list.
If you log into Darkfall for your first day it is going to take you awhile to get used to the controls and to customize your setup. On day 1 you will be struggling to kill your first goblin unlike WOW which is very easy in comparison. If you knew how to play however you could make quite a killing on your first day . .. go on a harvester route and check noob spawns. I actually enjoy going out on a PVP session on a noob more sometimes because it is a lot more challenging and a lot more stealth and paranoia is needed. Sinister maps tell you almost everything that you need to know. As long as you see enemies before they see you, getting away wouldnt be hard at all.
Sorry it made me laugh, that you think that someone has to struggle killing gobs not even at release. Im wondering if you are speaking about your experience or how you imagine someones experience would be if he would start today. As you cant compare 1 year before with now. As newbs are pretty fucked up for first few months till they grind their way up. Ofcours you could deny it as all other fanboys does it, still even in spotlight forumfall it was a theme which was discussed a lot as AV realised that its an issue and therefor they want to introduce prestige classes.
Some of us did this at the beginning and have rerolled since then and did it again.
Rerolled? You mean after get banned otherwise i dont see a reason to grind again.
PVPed on day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5 . .. of course the population was higher back then but I died less back then that I do now. I think it died on average once a week (only a few times total have I been beat by one guy but usually beat by zerg) because getting away was the first thing that I learned. You do not need to grind but you do need HP so swimming or harvesting was needed but after the HP revamp you should be good to go from day one (or as long as it takes for you to learn how to play well).
Getting good after hp formula overhaul in day 1? You made me laugh again There have been a lot of discussion and opinions of hundread people which would say the opposite of what you are saying. Feel free to use search on this forum or official forum in forumfall. There is simply no need to discuss further the rubbish your telling.
Now that the population has dropped down again (actually I have seen nothing but LOTS of action lately . .. the land was littered with dozens of tombstones everywhere the last time that I logged, pop is really starting to boom again!) I spend most of my time collecting mats for enchanting but still get plenty of PVP, almost more so than I would be going out and looking for it . ..
Funny ive seen in forumfall few threads which say the opposite. The people are worring and starting to think how to increase the population as it dropped lately so much. Yeah maybe you have pvp lately a lot but its more or less against the same few faces. For me it was the same. I knew every one who i was pvping. I barely seen fresh faces at the time i stoped playing.
I bet that you cannot name one game that is funner to PVP on day one. I have a lot of fun playing this game on a new character, even for the PVP. Sure I will be running from most people but compared to other noobs I get to make much more money and have more fun than I would have by kiling goblins (thanks to AFK harvesters). Villages are usually empty now adays so capping one for a brand new person would be easy and a great income.
Warhammer online (Tier 1 infact the best Tier). Runescape (mmorpg played by millions?). Age of Conan (pvp server). More fun? Depends on taste and on person. Killing afk harvesters is fun? God i have been really disappointed by you ... I guess you are same typ of person who finds its funny to pk newbs with vet char.
Please tell me what game is more enjoyable to PVP on your first day because I would very much like to play it while I am harvesting or something. I have been looking hard but have not found a funner game than Darkfall.
I would recommend Warhammer online. Tier1 which is actually best part of the game is for free forever. You cant actually play it endless. Or you could aswell play Runescape. Its pretty old (too old for me), but you can pvp from day 1 as there arent stats difference (a vet got same hp as a newb).
Oh I play with those who macroed since day 1 as well sometimes and duel often . .. at first I always won (simply had more PVP experience from going out everyday instead of macroing) but now it is usually half of the time I will win. I did have to swim and harvest for HP but after next week it should be easier for other people to just PVP without grinding like I have done a few times. My most developed character has 385 hp but shit for skills . .. to be honest the only skill that I want high right now is confusion because I am going to remain primary melee.
It does not matter how much more people have macroed than you it is not going to teach them how to play. Back on EU before the grind was reduced, it would seriously take years of macroing to get a character as developed as the few that you mentioned before, those ahead of you are not as ahead as you seem to think. People are passing you up who started after you I am sure since I see in these forums often (unless you are Alt+Tabbed). When my buddy was done maxing his character while the rest of us PVPed, he totally sucked when he was finally ready to stop macroing and play ...
I dont care if people are passing me. It doesnt matter for me anymore. I invested enough money to AV (2 accs and more then enough subs). I simply didnt had the time to grind and become competative. Ive got RL and job so and the time ive got over for playing i dont want spending with grind. Ive grinded already too many games and so far DF was the worst grind. The first months even to get pvp ready char! Check spotlight forum admited by AV themself.
Stop lying to yourself. You dont need every spell surging to win a fight.
Never remembered saying that i need every spell surging ...
The grind to get the necessities needed to kill someone with surging nukes doesnt take long at all . ... actually it may take more practice than the amount of time that it takes to just get the hp and skill. Those guys that you mentioned being all leet and macroing for a year are not going to be found. Maybe if you siege you may come across one . .. with all of his friends so you will lose anyways.
Doesnt take long? Yeah if you can macro 24/7, yeah then you dont have to grind at all. Ive met them almost on daily basis. Again you got no idea about me and stop saying me what "shouldnt" experience if i experienced the opposite.
Thinking that the best players skipped the grind is very ignorant . .. those guys probably hit people on a blood wall for a month straight just to get their melee mastery. Yes the grind was so bad that someone a year later would be able to catch up very very easily. I wouldnt expect you to get this since you werent there but it is much easier for you to catch up to these guys now than it would have been trying to do it by macroing on EU before the grind was fixed . .. thats why these guys say that you can catch up in a month. What they did at the beginning was insignificant because the grind was 6 times worse and yes you could catch up in only a month or two if macroing was legal but its not so it will take 4 months. They spend longer than 4 months of macroing, at least you will never have to deal with that!
You are forgeting that they could afk skill on mobs like a mate in my guild done at release. He farmed deathless mages afk with a macro and got 99 mastery with 2-hand clubs and 1-hand club since 1 1/2 year. I could womit every time i see a fanboys saying bla bla bla earlyer it was harder bla bla bla. I just have to remember what my guild mate told me, how easy it was to afk macro and get your masterys up.
I am so sick of hearing about the grind in DFO. Please stop whinning.
And im sick and tired of blue eyed fanboys which are vocal minority and think they know it better then whole community.
What about people like Sid and me who is paying the bills for AV since 15+ months, how can we call them ? and how we call those quitters who stoped playing but whine and troll forums demand to be able to beat people like Sid and me ?
How do we call those in your opinion ?
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What about people like Sid and me who is paying the bills for AV since 15+ months, how can we call them ? and how we call those quitters who stoped playing but whine and troll forums demand to be able to beat people like Sid and me ?
How do we call those in your opinion ?
The fact that you see yourself as "paying AV's bills" says a lot and goes to show that the community is indeed too small to the point where players are not just thinking about playing the game but rather "supporting" the company.
As for "Quitters" (this part really made me laugh), so actually leaving a game because it's not fun is being a "quitter", is that how you justify sub loss? Quitters? This ain't drug rehab. Admitting a game's flaws or stopping playing a game because of it's several issues doesn't make you a Quitter, it makes you a person that has what we call "Common Sense". Most of us of stopped playing DarkFall stopped because we did not get what we were offered: A FFA PvP MMORPG. We got a PvE MMO with end-game PvP. Even the website barely speaks of PvE, the trailer barely show PvE. It's false advertisement.
But that said, most of us saw in DarkFall a game that we wanted to play. If Aventurine can simply wake up and add the features they had promised and fix the grind/less PvE-focused, DarkFall would be VERY succesful and easily able to have over 50k-100k subs. Far too many people agrees and have left for the same issues. Fixing these would bring so many players to the Sandbox, add a lot more PvP and Politics.....you'd have to be blind not to see these issues. A 5k (present) vs. a 200k (near launch) speaks for itself. DarkFall is going down and fast.
We have proofs and data to back up our claims, where's yours?
Some of us did go out and PVP from day 1 and did fine and still do
You do not need to grind I am so sick of hearing about the grind in DFO. Please stop whinning.
Please reroll your character (since there is no grind this shouldnt be a problem) and come to human lands I will enjoy stomping you effortlessly with my barely 2 month old character. By the way I have been solo this entire time so nobody has been able to show me all the exploits and macros that i should be doing, so my character is probably way behind but i guarantee i will still kill you.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
As for "Quitters" (this part really made me laugh), so actually leaving a game because it's not fun is being a "quitter", is that how you justify sub loss? Quitters? This ain't drug rehab. Admitting a game's flaws or stopping playing a game because of it's several issues doesn't make you a Quitter, it makes you a person that has what we call "Common Sense".
You have to understand that people who are "fanboys" for a certain thing (a company, a product, a sports team) have completely different mindsets than normal people. A fanboy, or someone who is constantly claiming that their certain "thing" (in this case darkfall) is the best, and any flaws that you happen to point out are false regardless of any facts or logic. They dedicate their LIFE to defending the game, and they see someone who stops playing the game as a QUITTER because they think that anyone else playing the game must be dedicated as well..it is not just a game anymore.
It's just a game. It's horrible, but you don't have to defend it. Just play it. Play it and have fun, thats what its for.
People "Quit" because the game isnt fun for them.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
As for "Quitters" (this part really made me laugh), so actually leaving a game because it's not fun is being a "quitter", is that how you justify sub loss? Quitters? This ain't drug rehab. Admitting a game's flaws or stopping playing a game because of it's several issues doesn't make you a Quitter, it makes you a person that has what we call "Common Sense".
You have to understand that people who are "fanboys" for a certain thing (a company, a product, a sports team) have completely different mindsets than normal people. A fanboy, or someone who is constantly claiming that their certain "thing" (in this case darkfall) is the best, and any flaws that you happen to point out are false regardless of any facts or logic. They dedicate their LIFE to defending the game, and they see someone who stops playing the game as a QUITTER because they think that anyone else playing the game must be dedicated as well..it is not just a game anymore.
It's just a game. It's horrible, but you don't have to defend it. Just play it. Play it and have fun, thats what its for.
People "Quit" because the game isnt fun for them.
I'm fully aware of that and in a way, you could say that I wasn't actually replying to Darth but rather to those who believe him or make a positive opinion based on false information that he "spread", which then result in said person buying the game to stop playing 3 weeks later because DarkFall isn't what he was told it was.
I've seen that happen far too many times already, a lot of people left after their first month (sometime sooner), simply because they were told "You can PvP from Day 1" when the reality is that, no you can't PvP from Day 1 (well unless you are also fighting a Day 1 character or AFK harvesters), all you do is PvE for 6 months.
So yeah, I'm not really replying to Darth, I know it's a lost cause already and no matter what I say, everything is fine. Hell, 5k actives is more than enough to make DarkFall into the best game on the market!
Forum users are always vocal minority. 90%+ dont use at all or only few times the forum. Its kinda shows me how short sighted you are. I feel sorry for you.
What about people like Sid and me who is paying the bills for AV since 15+ months, how can we call them ? and how we call those quitters who stoped playing but whine and troll forums demand to be able to beat people like Sid and me ?
Quitters? Are we in kinda drug rehab here that we call peopl who stopped playing by not enjoying a game quitters?
Quitter is not the person who just stop playing, quitter is the person who stops playing for a specific reason AND think others who succeded in that specifically part are wrong and it should be changed so he can complete that too.
Imagine a job selction process for a challenging job, marine / astronaut whatever, requirement is to be able to run 20 miles in 2 hour and someone quits in 10 mile and demand this should be the requirement, those guys do 20 miles are just fanboys from NASA / Marine chor. I have no problem with it if someone quits and say, ok this wasn't for me i was not ready for that challenge or even running 10 miles is absolutely not for me but they try to set THEIR standard as rule and cry for it. Absolutely exaggerated example but hope it makes the difference clear.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
What about people like Sid and me who is paying the bills for AV since 15+ months, how can we call them ? and how we call those quitters who stoped playing but whine and troll forums demand to be able to beat people like Sid and me ?
How do we call those in your opinion ?
The fact that you see yourself as "paying AV's bills" says a lot and goes to show that the community is indeed too small to the point where players are not just thinking about playing the game but rather "supporting" the company.
I play the game and support the comapny because i think they delivered and still do a good job. I have had bad experiences in the past aka $OE but i see and feel here are developers working and not some sales men serving mainstream.
As for "Quitters" (this part really made me laugh), so actually leaving a game because it's not fun is being a "quitter", is that how you justify sub loss? Quitters? This ain't drug rehab. Admitting a game's flaws or stopping playing a game because of it's several issues doesn't make you a Quitter, it makes you a person that has what we call "Common Sense". Most of us of stopped playing DarkFall stopped because we did not get what we were offered: A FFA PvP MMORPG. We got a PvE MMO with end-game PvP. Even the website barely speaks of PvE, the trailer barely show PvE. It's false advertisement.
This is not the tenor of the messageof the usual whine post here. All i hear is "grind wah wah", "skill progression wah wah". You really thought you enter a MMORPG killing a vet the first days ? lol
You also can pvp from day 1, you need the mindset for it, you need to go out and search for your right enemies to PvP (this doesn't mean storm and raid a player city first, what about try the newb goblin spots of enemy factions ?) and you can PvP in a siege.
But that said, most of us saw in DarkFall a game that we wanted to play. If Aventurine can simply wake up and add the features they had promised and fix the grind/less PvE-focused, DarkFall would be VERY succesful and easily able to have over 50k-100k subs. Far too many people agrees and have left for the same issues. Fixing these would bring so many players to the Sandbox, add a lot more PvP and Politics.....you'd have to be blind not to see these issues. A 5k (present) vs. a 200k (near launch) speaks for itself. DarkFall is going down and fast.
Do you was here for the time PvP and PvE gains where the same ? I guess not. People exploited PvP focused Darkfall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look how much exclamation points i put. It was the playerbase themselvs forced Aventurine to implement those faster PvE gains that makes PvE more attractive. The company delivered a product for both game styles get same reward that is equal gains but lazy PvP'r who think game is just a PvP arena ruined it and nowe they cry about PvE grind, i love it. Btw you don't have to PvE, accept the lower gains from PvP and you never have to fight a mob ever, its your choice and the freedom is there.
We have proofs and data to back up our claims, where's yours?
What data, 200k curious people who want to take a look and play a beta or real intrested customers, who followed developement.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
The fact that you see yourself as "paying AV's bills" says a lot and goes to show that the community is indeed too small to the point where players are not just thinking about playing the game but rather "supporting" the company.
I play the game and support the comapny because i think they delivered and still do a good job. I have had bad experiences in the past aka $OE but i see and feel here are developers working and not some sales men serving mainstream.
As for "Quitters" (this part really made me laugh), so actually leaving a game because it's not fun is being a "quitter", is that how you justify sub loss? Quitters? This ain't drug rehab. Admitting a game's flaws or stopping playing a game because of it's several issues doesn't make you a Quitter, it makes you a person that has what we call "Common Sense". Most of us of stopped playing DarkFall stopped because we did not get what we were offered: A FFA PvP MMORPG. We got a PvE MMO with end-game PvP. Even the website barely speaks of PvE, the trailer barely show PvE. It's false advertisement.
This is not the tenor of the messageof the usual whine post here. All i hear is "grind wah wah", "skill progression wah wah". You really thought you enter a MMORPG killing a vet the first days ? lol
You also can pvp from day 1, you need the mindset for it, you need to go out and search for your right enemies to PvP (this doesn't mean storm and raid a player city first, what about try the newb goblin spots of enemy factions ?) and you can PvP in a siege.
Where did I claim or asked for players to be able to kill vets from Day 1? It's quite the opposite, it's you guys who claim that you can PvP from Day 1, and that's a lie (with the exception of killing other Day 1 newbie or AFK Harvesters, that's all you could possibly kill). Grind is an issue and has always been, vets macro'ed their way up and now new players are not allowed to, the Vets played Easy-Mode by AFK Macro'ing their stats and skills all day long with Blood walls, etc. New players are the ones who have to handle the grind.
But that said, most of us saw in DarkFall a game that we wanted to play. If Aventurine can simply wake up and add the features they had promised and fix the grind/less PvE-focused, DarkFall would be VERY succesful and easily able to have over 50k-100k subs. Far too many people agrees and have left for the same issues. Fixing these would bring so many players to the Sandbox, add a lot more PvP and Politics.....you'd have to be blind not to see these issues. A 5k (present) vs. a 200k (near launch) speaks for itself. DarkFall is going down and fast.
Do you was here for the time PvP and PvE gains where the same ? I guess not. People exploited PvP focused Darkfall !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Look how much exclamation points i put. It was the playerbase themselvs forced Aventurine to implement those faster PvE gains that makes PvE more attractive. The company delivered a product for both game styles get same reward that is equal gains but lazy PvP'r who think game is just a PvP arena ruined it and nowe they cry about PvE grind, i love it. Btw you don't have to PvE, accept the lower gains from PvP and you never have to fight a mob ever, its your choice and the freedom is there.
And it was because the grind was important enough already that players felt the need to macro their way up. Greatly reducing the grind doesn't mean to remove PvE. But at least make it so that everyone can participate in PvP much faster than they currently can (6 months). Also, at Launch, all vets were at the same level, there were no "Maxed up" vet running around shooting rank 100 fire nukes at newbies, all there was were other people around the same strength and grouping was the main option to fight in PvP without much risk.
We have proofs and data to back up our claims, where's yours?
What data, 200k curious people who want to take a look and play a beta or real intrested customers, who followed developement.
Which is why I only said that AV (had they fixed their game according to the previous sites features) could retain about 50k-100k users. It's far better than 5k subs isn't it? So much for the best MMORPG on the market right? Golly gee, if it only takes 5k to be the best MMORPG on the market, WoW must be the best game in the entire universe! (Even though I don't like WoW)
In DAOC my newb Armsman hide in a pass and acted as a scout to see which way an attack would come from. Did a lot happen? No. Were we better prepared as I counted 20 – 25 guys in the advance party before I was spotted and one shooted? Yes. I am sure newbs in DF can do stuff like that, you just have to use your imagination.
In what MMO with pvp can you start over a year after release and compete in less then six months ago?
I agree in part with what you are saying and have to tell you your sixth month accessment for competing isn't accurate either. I would say more like a year unless you play over 8 hours a day, are in a guild that takes advantage of some things, or macro.
But, I can't think of a single pvp game that is a MMO that I can log into and compete in less then six months starting new without some form of help or cheating. Hell in other games I am not even sure if I could damage a vet from the start let alone compete.
Hmm. I started playing WoW in November of 2008. By January of 2009 I was in a top 50 US guild, and yes I had to transfer servers to join, and yes they had to look at my damage parses and equipment for me to join. One week after the latest expansion had released I had multiple records in dps parses for rogue dps in the US. I didn't play 8 hours a day, and it only took me a few months to become one of the best overall players on a game that has 10 million players, give or take. Pretty sure you can become a good player in a great number of MMOs without spending 6+ months to get there. Hmm, let me name a few: WoW (obviously), LOTRO, EQ2, Atlantica, COH, AOC. That's just to name a few, and if you notice, those are some of the most popular MMOs on the market. WoW and LOTRO arguably have some of the most content in the MMORPG market, and EQ2 is a big competitor as well. The only game I TRULY know of which takes 6+ months (actually much longer in fact) to become a top player on the game is EVE, and that is by game design. Honestly, that is the reason I have never had more than a trial on EVE. I don't want to spend 2 years of work to see the endgame content, or whatever the hell is at the end of EVEs long, long road. Can you blame someone for not wanting to spend 6 months of work for a mediocre game when he can spend a much shorter time on arguably better (definitely more popular) MMOs and become a top player? I guess it's all just a ConspiracyTheoryTM
In what MMO with pvp can you start over a year after release and compete in less then six months ago?
I agree in part with what you are saying and have to tell you your sixth month accessment for competing isn't accurate either. I would say more like a year unless you play over 8 hours a day, are in a guild that takes advantage of some things, or macro.
But, I can't think of a single pvp game that is a MMO that I can log into and compete in less then six months starting new without some form of help or cheating. Hell in other games I am not even sure if I could damage a vet from the start let alone compete.
Hmm. I started playing WoW in November of 2008. By January of 2009 I was in a top 50 US guild, and yes I had to transfer servers to join, and yes they had to look at my damage parses and equipment for me to join. One week after the latest expansion had released I had multiple records in dps parses for rogue dps in the US. I didn't play 8 hours a day, and it only took me a few months to become one of the best overall players on a game that has 10 million players, give or take. Pretty sure you can become a good player in a great number of MMOs without spending 6+ months to get there. Hmm, let me name a few: WoW (obviously), LOTRO, EQ2, Atlantica, COH, AOC. That's just to name a few, and if you notice, those are some of the most popular MMOs on the market. WoW and LOTRO arguably have some of the most content in the MMORPG market, and EQ2 is a big competitor as well. The only game I TRULY know of which takes 6+ months (actually much longer in fact) to become a top player on the game is EVE, and that is by game design. Honestly, that is the reason I have never had more than a trial on EVE. I don't want to spend 2 years of work to see the endgame content, or whatever the hell is at the end of EVEs long, long road. Can you blame someone for not wanting to spend 6 months of work for a mediocre game when he can spend a much shorter time on arguably better (definitely more popular) MMOs and become a top player? I guess it's all just a ConspiracyTheoryTM
-ConspiracyTheoryTM
You sort of missed the point and wether or not a game is "mediocre" is subjective. DarkFall is supposed to be a PvP-Focused MMORPG yet because of bad design choices, you end up grinding PvE for 6 months before you can actually do something in PvP. The issue with most players isn't that you must play for 6 months, but rather that you have to grind for 6 months in PvE when DarkFall is advertised as a PvP MMO.
Had players been able to be effective in PvP quickly, you'd never hear complains about grinding for 6 months or so. To some extent, I'm forced to say that Blizzard got it right when they made the run to the end-game so easy. Most of the WoW players just LOVE the end-game and that's what has kept them playing for 5+ years. It makes total sense, and I'm not talking about the nerf or anything, I'm talking about reducing the grind, allowing players to reach the fun content quickly and in a PVP-Focused MMORPG, that's the key to success. Allow players to PvP quickly and focus on bringing more PvP Content. It's not rocket science.
Quitter is not the person who just stop playing, quitter is the person who stops playing for a specific reason AND think others who succeded in that specifically part are wrong and it should be changed so he can complete that too.
Imagine a job selction process for a challenging job, marine / astronaut whatever, requirement is to be able to run 20 miles in 2 hour and someone quits in 10 mile and demand this should be the requirement, those guys do 20 miles are just fanboys from NASA / Marine chor. I have no problem with it if someone quits and say, ok this wasn't for me i was not ready for that challenge or even running 10 miles is absolutely not for me but they try to set THEIR standard as rule and cry for it. Absolutely exaggerated example but hope it makes the difference clear.
Do read your own post again please. Read your own comparason and you can now see why darkfall is dying. They didnt even payed their full dept yet after a year so they surely need players.
Because of that, they have to tone it down so more players can join and stay. In your example, yeah, there might be plently of quitters and few that stay, but anyway, the few that stay is what the boss want as a number so no problem. As for darkfall, they need more players to get to the positive money number finally.
Quitter is not the person who just stop playing, quitter is the person who stops playing for a specific reason AND think others who succeded in that specifically part are wrong and it should be changed so he can complete that too.
Imagine a job selction process for a challenging job, marine / astronaut whatever, requirement is to be able to run 20 miles in 2 hour and someone quits in 10 mile and demand this should be the requirement, those guys do 20 miles are just fanboys from NASA / Marine chor. I have no problem with it if someone quits and say, ok this wasn't for me i was not ready for that challenge or even running 10 miles is absolutely not for me but they try to set THEIR standard as rule and cry for it. Absolutely exaggerated example but hope it makes the difference clear.
Do read your own post again please. Read your own comparason and you can now see why darkfall is dying. They didnt even payed their full dept yet after a year so they surely need players.
Because of that, they have to tone it down so more players can join and stay. In your example, yeah, there might be plently of quitters and few that stay, but anyway, the few that stay is what the boss want as a number so no problem. As for darkfall, they need more players to get to the positive money number finally.
I wouldnt argue with him, as he proved already several times that common sense for him isnt existent. Common logics fails to reach him.
In fact everything was already discussed and i doubt there will be something new to discuss.
DF is a PvE game with PvP endgame (several month to reach it).
Like DarthRaiden stated himself he plays 70% PvE and 30% PvP and for first months its even 95% PvE and 5% PvP. Everyone should be aware of this fact if he wants to play this game. Thats all.
Quitter is not the person who just stop playing, quitter is the person who stops playing for a specific reason AND think others who succeded in that specifically part are wrong and it should be changed so he can complete that too.
Imagine a job selction process for a challenging job, marine / astronaut whatever, requirement is to be able to run 20 miles in 2 hour and someone quits in 10 mile and demand this should be the requirement, those guys do 20 miles are just fanboys from NASA / Marine chor. I have no problem with it if someone quits and say, ok this wasn't for me i was not ready for that challenge or even running 10 miles is absolutely not for me but they try to set THEIR standard as rule and cry for it. Absolutely exaggerated example but hope it makes the difference clear.
Do read your own post again please. Read your own comparason and you can now see why darkfall is dying. They didnt even payed their full dept yet after a year so they surely need players.
Because of that, they have to tone it down so more players can join and stay. In your example, yeah, there might be plently of quitters and few that stay, but anyway, the few that stay is what the boss want as a number so no problem. As for darkfall, they need more players to get to the positive money number finally.
I wouldnt argue with him, as he proved already several times that common sense for him isnt existent. Common logics fails to reach him.
In fact everything was already discussed and i doubt there will be something new to discuss.
DF is a PvE game with PvP endgame (several month to reach it).
Like DarthRaiden stated himself he plays 70% PvE and 30% PvP and for first months its even 95% PvE and 5% PvP. Everyone should be aware of this fact if he wants to play this game. Thats all.
DF is a MMORPG including PvE and PvP, it is is part of this very board called "MMORPG.com" for a reason. As a full blood player i am intrested in how much the game satisfy my needs and let the company care about the numbers, its not my bear and i don't care as long as they don't sell themsleves for more money like those $OE suckers did, who after changing their good game to please the mainasses lost like 250k population lol.
I like the standards of the game. tbh i expected long ago that the mainstream will be not good enough for those. Insta gratification generation kiddies can't compete in the game but they are goodfor setting new QQ and forum whine standards lol.
You guys will continue to troll the boards and spread lies and Darkfall will continue to be the best MMORPG on the market.
No one mentioned it again and ignored the in game example i have given, a talented newbie player had 40 kills after just few days. He went red in his first day not bothering about. He is an example for you guys just don't can't play Darkfall. Although he is an extreme example because he was very very good twitch combat player due him being a pro gamer ( a real one having won prizes and money in those e-sports leagues). Of course he also need to work on stats and skills but he PvP'd successfully from day 1, could beat even some not well prepared vets and don't him even bothering with PvE yet.
PvP without having to reach some "end game" is possible, real life in game examples shows it. You just need to seek it and choose your opponents.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE-------------------------------------------------- $OE - eternal enemy of online gaming -We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
DF is a MMORPG including PvE and PvP, it is is part of this very board called "MMORPG.com" for a reason. As a full blood player i am intrested in how much the game satisfy my needs and let the company care about the numbers, its not my bear and i don't care as long as they don't sell themsleves for more money like those $OE suckers did, who after changing their good game to please the mainasses lost like 250k population lol.
As far as I can tell, no one in this thread has argued that PvE should not be part of the game. Obviously PvE is an important part of all MMORPGs and we are not saying that it should not exist in Darkfall. However, we have argued that it should not take as long to reach a competitive level in terms of character stats/skills as it currently does. Darkfall was never marketed as a PvE-heavy grinder... it was advertised as a PvP-focused game. In fact, it has been repeatedly advertised as a game where player skill matters more than character ability. In reality, this is not the case. Those of you who consistently argue otherwise are either deliberately attempting to misinform people in order to maintain your advantage OR have had advanced characters for so long that you don't have any idea what its like to be a new player in the game as it is today.
I like the standards of the game. tbh i expected long ago that the mainstream will be not good enough for those. Insta gratification generation kiddies can't compete in the game but they are goodfor setting new QQ and forum whine standards lol.
There is a big difference between demanding instant gratification and expecting to partake in the main focus of the game in a reasonable period of time. If the main focus of this game had been advertised as 'PvE until your eyes bleed', I'm sure most of us PvPers would never have even tried it. I know I wouldn't have...
You guys will continue to troll the boards and spread lies and Darkfall will continue to be the best MMORPG on the market.
No one mentioned it again and ignored the in game example i have given, a talented newbie player had 40 kills after just few days. He went red in his first day not bothering about. He is an example for you guys just don't can't play Darkfall. Although he is an extreme example because he was very very good twitch combat player due him being a pro gamer ( a real one having won prizes and money in those e-sports leagues). Of course he also need to work on stats and skills but he PvP'd successfully from day 1, could beat even some not well prepared vets and don't him even bothering with PvE yet.
Your example is garbage. Any skilled PvPer could start a new character and kill other day 1 players right from the beginning. The problem is that a new player like that can ONLY kill those day 1 players or others around their same skill/stat level. They won't stand a chance against anyone who has played significantly longer. And since character advancement goes on basically forever, that gap will takes years to overcome. No one has argued that it is impossible to PvP from day 1, we have only been arguing that it is nearly impossible to PvP and win against veteran players even months down the road due to the ridiculous stat/skill grind. That is just poor game design and it leads to newer players feeling as though they can never partake in the core focus of the game.
PvP without having to reach some "end game" is possible, real life in game examples shows it. You just need to seek it and choose your opponents.
It seems like a lot of people take your advice on this point. Thats why there are so many older players hanging around the goblin spawns ganking noobs all day. Its pathetic...
In what MMO with pvp can you start over a year after release and compete in less then six months ago?
I agree in part with what you are saying and have to tell you your sixth month accessment for competing isn't accurate either. I would say more like a year unless you play over 8 hours a day, are in a guild that takes advantage of some things, or macro.
But, I can't think of a single pvp game that is a MMO that I can log into and compete in less then six months starting new without some form of help or cheating. Hell in other games I am not even sure if I could damage a vet from the start let alone compete.
A game based on perma-death.
A game based on no-levels, no-skills.
Or...
Um....tons of different MMORPG's that are based in tiers?
For awhile, Warhammer and DAoC were both great games for new players (after their populations lowered) solely because fo the tier system. WoW has a big twink problem though, but that too honestly.
Any game that is tiered and PvP is instanced without twinks ruining the mechanics is a MMO with PvP you can start out on top against people who have played for years. Just requires levelling up.
Champions Online and Warhammer leveled even the lowest levels to the max level via HP and Dmg %, even if not skills or specializations.
Darkfall has a core mechanic that is anti-newbie. Not just NOT newbie-friendly, but actually works AGAINST new players. Sorry, it just is. Doesn't make it a bad video game. Doesn't make it not fun. It just makes it a bad video game for everyone who didn't play it from release onwards.
Comments
Lol, man, in 2 weeks in WoW you'll get a gear good enough to gank noobs in starting locations. Stop saying bs. 1.5 months WoW toon with battleground's crap is equal to 300 hp DF one with 50 GS mastery and a few magic schools on 100. And in both cases it takes a pretty hardcore attitude.
And 80% of damage output in DFO depends on gear. Which can be acquired even by a 1 day noob (if he has enough money of course, but money is the least problem in the game).
And no, you don't need all skills. I have no magic aside from healing. I'm Indestructable though so I couldn't use magic anyway...
Hehe, as I see you know nothing not only of DFO, but WoW as well. I was Warlord (13 PvP rank) and gladiator in WoW. Yeah, I stopped playing it 1.5 years ago. Perhaps it's become easier to reach 80 lvl now (for me it took a month of pretty hardcore playing), but you still need a lot to farm a decent gear. I mean in 2 weeks of casual playing you can perhaps earn 2-3 pieces of crappy (2 tiers below the top) arena sets. If hardcore, you perhaps are able to get a full set. But as I said it's only good to gank noobs...
Man, it takes a week of semi-hardcore playing to get a mastery in any weapon. It takes another week to get 50 mastery. And a toon with 50 mastery hits pretty hard, if his weapon is good. His damage is perhaps 20-25% lower than a veteran's one (if veteran has good strength and 100 mastery), but you can't compare it to WoW, where a 2 weeks toon can't even scratch a gladiator...
You forget the difference in HP and Spells. Without spells and HP pool you are pretty fucked up in DF. Dont deny it. Rarely seen people fighting in seiges, raids melee as you A) block other from doing dmg to the oponent
You will kiss the ground pretty fast, as if you even kill the enemy you will get nuked to death. Most fights in DF are and will be magic wise. You can kite a melee guy easy going by using your utility spells (shrapnel, bubble, flash etc).
Its funny if you think DF and WoW got more similaritys then i first thought. Everyone is a clone of other as at the end there is only 1 template and same gear. Both have en masse PvE, except in WoW its called content. In both games newbs are pretty fucked up except in WoW you can have pvp within 1 day and having fun by killing others (bgs).
WoW vanilla (world pvp, before bgs were introduced) was the best pvp ive experienced. Ah i remember the first pvp areas!
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
I said two weeks after 80 you can START arena'ing. You won't win the whole contest, but you'll at least be competitive enough in your bracket to move up. It is a lot easier to to level up, all the 1-60 content has been made easier, xp gain is faster, plus the buddy level program.
And like I said, even on a PvP server, there is no ganking of noobs, unless you consider someone above level 30 a noob. Noob zones and secondary noob zones are PvP protected. You have to manually flag yourself for PvP. There is NO ganking of noobs in level 1-25/30 zones. There never has been. Even above level 30, you get no honor for killing people 10 levels lower than you, so the only ganking going on by level 80 players is on other level 70-80 players in Northrend.
PvP in WoW is designed so that you face others of your level, unlike DF. Level 80 players don't patrol the Stonetalon Mountains ganking level 35 players. It doesn't happen because there is no reward, unlike in Darkfall.
Lol, there is no noob ganking in WoW because all noobs are in cities and towns. You don't nowdays need leaving them to level up thanks to x-server instanses... And begining Arenas is nothing. Just try to beat any gladiator solo, and you will die much faster than a 1 month noob vs a veteran in DFO...
Why are you complaining about HP when they are revamping it next week? Nukers are OP for sieging and they will always be no matter how many classes or whatever they come up with. When it comes to 1vs1, no nuke is needed.
Also whats this about being able to kill others in WOW on day one and not in Darkfall? LOL
Speak for yourself buddy. Some of us did go out and PVP from day 1 and did fine and still do. I have been playing for over a year and have maybe grind a total of 2 weeks to reach 75 polearm mastery and to get witchesbrew. Nothing else was needed to dominate others and long as you know how to counter magic and are not afraid to wear gear. A couple friends of mine log in for PVP everytime that they play pretty much (not for PVE) . .. maybe we'd kill mobs instead like once a week at the very most? Every night for a very long time we would go out and PVP without grinding and always made good scores.
If you log into Darkfall for your first day it is going to take you awhile to get used to the controls and to customize your setup. On day 1 you will be struggling to kill your first goblin unlike WOW which is very easy in comparison. If you knew how to play however you could make quite a killing on your first day . .. go on a harvester route and check noob spawns. I actually enjoy going out on a PVP session on a noob more sometimes because it is a lot more challenging and a lot more stealth and paranoia is needed. Sinister maps tell you almost everything that you need to know. As long as you see enemies before they see you, getting away wouldnt be hard at all.
Some of us did this at the beginning and have rerolled since then and did it again. PVPed on day 1, day 2, day 3, day 4, day 5 . .. of course the population was higher back then but I died less back then that I do now. I think it died on average once a week (only a few times total have I been beat by one guy but usually beat by zerg) because getting away was the first thing that I learned. You do not need to grind but you do need HP so swimming or harvesting was needed but after the HP revamp you should be good to go from day one (or as long as it takes for you to learn how to play well). Now that the population has dropped down again (actually I have seen nothing but LOTS of action lately . .. the land was littered with dozens of tombstones everywhere the last time that I logged, pop is really starting to boom again!) I spend most of my time collecting mats for enchanting but still get plenty of PVP, almost more so than I would be going out and looking for it . ..
I bet that you cannot name one game that is funner to PVP on day one. I have a lot of fun playing this game on a new character, even for the PVP. Sure I will be running from most people but compared to other noobs I get to make much more money and have more fun than I would have by kiling goblins (thanks to AFK harvesters). Villages are usually empty now adays so capping one for a brand new person would be easy and a great income.
Please tell me what game is more enjoyable to PVP on your first day because I would very much like to play it while I am harvesting or something. I have been looking hard but have not found a funner game than Darkfall.
Oh I play with those who macroed since day 1 as well sometimes and duel often . .. at first I always won (simply had more PVP experience from going out everyday instead of macroing) but now it is usually half of the time I will win. I did have to swim and harvest for HP but after next week it should be easier for other people to just PVP without grinding like I have done a few times. My most developed character has 385 hp but shit for skills . .. to be honest the only skill that I want high right now is confusion because I am going to remain primary melee.
It does not matter how much more people have macroed than you it is not going to teach them how to play. Back on EU before the grind was reduced, it would seriously take years of macroing to get a character as developed as the few that you mentioned before, those ahead of you are not as ahead as you seem to think. People are passing you up who started after you I am sure since I see in these forums often (unless you are Alt+Tabbed). When my buddy was done maxing his character while the rest of us PVPed, he totally sucked when he was finally ready to stop macroing and play . ..
Stop lying to yourself. You dont need every spell surging to win a fight. The grind to get the necessities needed to kill someone with surging nukes doesnt take long at all . ... actually it may take more practice than the amount of time that it takes to just get the hp and skill. Those guys that you mentioned being all leet and macroing for a year are not going to be found. Maybe if you siege you may come across one . .. with all of his friends so you will lose anyways.
I was not referring to sieging at all when I say that you dont need to grind to win. I am talking about small-scale like harvesting runs, raiding cities/hamlets, etc.
Thinking that the best players skipped the grind is very ignorant . .. those guys probably hit people on a blood wall for a month straight just to get their melee mastery. Yes the grind was so bad that someone a year later would be able to catch up very very easily. I wouldnt expect you to get this since you werent there but it is much easier for you to catch up to these guys now than it would have been trying to do it by macroing on EU before the grind was fixed . .. thats why these guys say that you can catch up in a month. What they did at the beginning was insignificant because the grind was 6 times worse and yes you could catch up in only a month or two if macroing was legal but its not so it will take 4 months. They spend longer than 4 months of macroing, at least you will never have to deal with that!
I am so sick of hearing about the grind in DFO. Please stop whinning.
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That vocal minority remark was funny, i laughed.
What about people like Sid and me who is paying the bills for AV since 15+ months, how can we call them ? and how we call those quitters who stoped playing but whine and troll forums demand to be able to beat people like Sid and me ?
How do we call those in your opinion ?
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
The fact that you see yourself as "paying AV's bills" says a lot and goes to show that the community is indeed too small to the point where players are not just thinking about playing the game but rather "supporting" the company.
As for "Quitters" (this part really made me laugh), so actually leaving a game because it's not fun is being a "quitter", is that how you justify sub loss? Quitters? This ain't drug rehab. Admitting a game's flaws or stopping playing a game because of it's several issues doesn't make you a Quitter, it makes you a person that has what we call "Common Sense". Most of us of stopped playing DarkFall stopped because we did not get what we were offered: A FFA PvP MMORPG. We got a PvE MMO with end-game PvP. Even the website barely speaks of PvE, the trailer barely show PvE. It's false advertisement.
But that said, most of us saw in DarkFall a game that we wanted to play. If Aventurine can simply wake up and add the features they had promised and fix the grind/less PvE-focused, DarkFall would be VERY succesful and easily able to have over 50k-100k subs. Far too many people agrees and have left for the same issues. Fixing these would bring so many players to the Sandbox, add a lot more PvP and Politics.....you'd have to be blind not to see these issues. A 5k (present) vs. a 200k (near launch) speaks for itself. DarkFall is going down and fast.
We have proofs and data to back up our claims, where's yours?
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
You have to understand that people who are "fanboys" for a certain thing (a company, a product, a sports team) have completely different mindsets than normal people. A fanboy, or someone who is constantly claiming that their certain "thing" (in this case darkfall) is the best, and any flaws that you happen to point out are false regardless of any facts or logic. They dedicate their LIFE to defending the game, and they see someone who stops playing the game as a QUITTER because they think that anyone else playing the game must be dedicated as well..it is not just a game anymore.
It's just a game. It's horrible, but you don't have to defend it. Just play it. Play it and have fun, thats what its for.
People "Quit" because the game isnt fun for them.
My Darkfall character was stuck in RED alignment until I killed enough people AFK hitting trees and rocks. Darkfall is hardcore
I'm fully aware of that and in a way, you could say that I wasn't actually replying to Darth but rather to those who believe him or make a positive opinion based on false information that he "spread", which then result in said person buying the game to stop playing 3 weeks later because DarkFall isn't what he was told it was.
I've seen that happen far too many times already, a lot of people left after their first month (sometime sooner), simply because they were told "You can PvP from Day 1" when the reality is that, no you can't PvP from Day 1 (well unless you are also fighting a Day 1 character or AFK harvesters), all you do is PvE for 6 months.
So yeah, I'm not really replying to Darth, I know it's a lost cause already and no matter what I say, everything is fine. Hell, 5k actives is more than enough to make DarkFall into the best game on the market!
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Quitter is not the person who just stop playing, quitter is the person who stops playing for a specific reason AND think others who succeded in that specifically part are wrong and it should be changed so he can complete that too.
Imagine a job selction process for a challenging job, marine / astronaut whatever, requirement is to be able to run 20 miles in 2 hour and someone quits in 10 mile and demand this should be the requirement, those guys do 20 miles are just fanboys from NASA / Marine chor. I have no problem with it if someone quits and say, ok this wasn't for me i was not ready for that challenge or even running 10 miles is absolutely not for me but they try to set THEIR standard as rule and cry for it. Absolutely exaggerated example but hope it makes the difference clear.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
In DAOC my newb Armsman hide in a pass and acted as a scout to see which way an attack would come from. Did a lot happen? No. Were we better prepared as I counted 20 – 25 guys in the advance party before I was spotted and one shooted? Yes. I am sure newbs in DF can do stuff like that, you just have to use your imagination.
Hmm. I started playing WoW in November of 2008. By January of 2009 I was in a top 50 US guild, and yes I had to transfer servers to join, and yes they had to look at my damage parses and equipment for me to join. One week after the latest expansion had released I had multiple records in dps parses for rogue dps in the US. I didn't play 8 hours a day, and it only took me a few months to become one of the best overall players on a game that has 10 million players, give or take. Pretty sure you can become a good player in a great number of MMOs without spending 6+ months to get there. Hmm, let me name a few: WoW (obviously), LOTRO, EQ2, Atlantica, COH, AOC. That's just to name a few, and if you notice, those are some of the most popular MMOs on the market. WoW and LOTRO arguably have some of the most content in the MMORPG market, and EQ2 is a big competitor as well. The only game I TRULY know of which takes 6+ months (actually much longer in fact) to become a top player on the game is EVE, and that is by game design. Honestly, that is the reason I have never had more than a trial on EVE. I don't want to spend 2 years of work to see the endgame content, or whatever the hell is at the end of EVEs long, long road. Can you blame someone for not wanting to spend 6 months of work for a mediocre game when he can spend a much shorter time on arguably better (definitely more popular) MMOs and become a top player? I guess it's all just a ConspiracyTheoryTM
-ConspiracyTheoryTM
ConspiracyTheory
You sort of missed the point and wether or not a game is "mediocre" is subjective. DarkFall is supposed to be a PvP-Focused MMORPG yet because of bad design choices, you end up grinding PvE for 6 months before you can actually do something in PvP. The issue with most players isn't that you must play for 6 months, but rather that you have to grind for 6 months in PvE when DarkFall is advertised as a PvP MMO.
Had players been able to be effective in PvP quickly, you'd never hear complains about grinding for 6 months or so. To some extent, I'm forced to say that Blizzard got it right when they made the run to the end-game so easy. Most of the WoW players just LOVE the end-game and that's what has kept them playing for 5+ years. It makes total sense, and I'm not talking about the nerf or anything, I'm talking about reducing the grind, allowing players to reach the fun content quickly and in a PVP-Focused MMORPG, that's the key to success. Allow players to PvP quickly and focus on bringing more PvP Content. It's not rocket science.
Do read your own post again please. Read your own comparason and you can now see why darkfall is dying. They didnt even payed their full dept yet after a year so they surely need players.
Because of that, they have to tone it down so more players can join and stay. In your example, yeah, there might be plently of quitters and few that stay, but anyway, the few that stay is what the boss want as a number so no problem. As for darkfall, they need more players to get to the positive money number finally.
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I wouldnt argue with him, as he proved already several times that common sense for him isnt existent. Common logics fails to reach him.
In fact everything was already discussed and i doubt there will be something new to discuss.
DF is a PvE game with PvP endgame (several month to reach it).
Like DarthRaiden stated himself he plays 70% PvE and 30% PvP and for first months its even 95% PvE and 5% PvP. Everyone should be aware of this fact if he wants to play this game. Thats all.
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DF is a MMORPG including PvE and PvP, it is is part of this very board called "MMORPG.com" for a reason. As a full blood player i am intrested in how much the game satisfy my needs and let the company care about the numbers, its not my bear and i don't care as long as they don't sell themsleves for more money like those $OE suckers did, who after changing their good game to please the mainasses lost like 250k population lol.
I like the standards of the game. tbh i expected long ago that the mainstream will be not good enough for those. Insta gratification generation kiddies can't compete in the game but they are goodfor setting new QQ and forum whine standards lol.
You guys will continue to troll the boards and spread lies and Darkfall will continue to be the best MMORPG on the market.
No one mentioned it again and ignored the in game example i have given, a talented newbie player had 40 kills after just few days. He went red in his first day not bothering about. He is an example for you guys just don't can't play Darkfall. Although he is an extreme example because he was very very good twitch combat player due him being a pro gamer ( a real one having won prizes and money in those e-sports leagues). Of course he also need to work on stats and skills but he PvP'd successfully from day 1, could beat even some not well prepared vets and don't him even bothering with PvE yet.
PvP without having to reach some "end game" is possible, real life in game examples shows it. You just need to seek it and choose your opponents.
-----MY-TERMS-OF-USE--------------------------------------------------
$OE - eternal enemy of online gaming
-We finally WON !!!! 2011 $OE accepted that they have been fired 2005 by the playerbase and closed down ridiculous NGE !!
"There was suppression of speech and all kinds of things between disturbing and fascistic." Raph Koster (parted $OE)
A game based on perma-death.
A game based on no-levels, no-skills.
Or...
Um....tons of different MMORPG's that are based in tiers?
For awhile, Warhammer and DAoC were both great games for new players (after their populations lowered) solely because fo the tier system. WoW has a big twink problem though, but that too honestly.
Any game that is tiered and PvP is instanced without twinks ruining the mechanics is a MMO with PvP you can start out on top against people who have played for years. Just requires levelling up.
Champions Online and Warhammer leveled even the lowest levels to the max level via HP and Dmg %, even if not skills or specializations.
Darkfall has a core mechanic that is anti-newbie. Not just NOT newbie-friendly, but actually works AGAINST new players. Sorry, it just is. Doesn't make it a bad video game. Doesn't make it not fun. It just makes it a bad video game for everyone who didn't play it from release onwards.