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5X5 PVP
redOrc
Member Posts: 100
in Guild Wars 2
The number of player in PVP is reduced to 5X5. With 8 different characters, how much risk of it turning to rock-paper-... ?
It is fine with the low level players, but top level competitive palyers ?
How is ANET going to overcome that ?
Comments
The point was especially with competitive GvG it was very difficult to gather and organise 8 people to go do a GVG match. Thus less people were able make a regular 8 person team so less played overall. With 5v5 There won't just be more teams they'll be more players playing because it isn't so hard to gather a 5 man team and is far more appealing to the average player.
To anyone who regularly plays these matches e.g high level players. This is a great thing as there is more players and teams to play with as less time needed to acquire a team so more time can be spent actually competing against other teams.
The whole rock paper scissors arguement is not necessarily true because your assuming certain groups of professions will be designed to be direct counters to others when it can also be designed not to be the case. Also due to the fact you can easily change your skills in battle via weapon changes and attunements for elementalists. The strategy you made before battle can be mostly overcome by the team changing their skills mid battle and so their team build completely alters.
The professions and skills will be designed completely around the 5v5 battle so balances can be made accordingly. If done right this can be amazing good for the competitive pvp scene so lets hold off from the doom and gloom until we're actually playing the game
/thread
~~Internet gaming is not for the faint of heart or the dumb of mind.~~
only onr having a hard time fionding group of 8 are elitist,the regular player dont have problem finding 8 player lowering to 5 player wont solve tghe issue randomly grouping noob with pro is a better long term solution .
Seriously do people not do ANY research on a game before they post? The non tournament pvp matches are "hot joinable" meaning noobs can join matches with "elites" if someone leaves mid game.
Your "problem" has been solved and this is a completely separate problem. Read up on the pvp information before you post your "solutions".
Besides your method removes competitive aspects of pvp. You can't organise a team or create any sort of competitive structure if the entire pvp is "random arena". There's allowing noobs to play with hardcore pvp'ers and then there's ruining competitive pvp altogether.
Some sources for those interested.
GW2G Interview
Ryan Scott – Game Designer: While we’re not ready to release all the details on structured PVP yet, there is some information we can share.
First of all, it’s important to clarify that Structured PvP and World versus World are very different beasts. WvW will take your current character – as is – and have them join an ongoing, large-scale battle to win rewards for their world. Structured PvP will equalize everyone’s character level and unlock all options from the start to have two teams fight in a fair, instanced game.
We’ve mentioned before that we’re taking some cues from first-person shooters with how we’ll handle PvP in GW2. This, specifically, means a few things:
GW2’s PvP will use the same formats for both pick-up/random and tournament play. Gone are the days of different game modes for differing skill levels, so players can learn skills that are relevant in all levels of competition.
Pick-up play is 100% hot-joinable. You can leave or join a game already in progress, and the game modes and types will be built to support this. This removes the catch-22 of groups disallowing newer players to join, when those same players can’t get better because they can’t find a group. Tournaments will also be supported, so arranged teams will be able to face off in a competitive setting.
Since games are hot-join, we want to add support for micro-communities to have some control over the type of play environment they want, while in turn letting all players seek out the experience they enjoy. We’ll be releasing more details on how we’re doing this later this year.
Luna Atra interview
Jon Peters – Game Designer: Competitive PvP in Guild Wars 2 will take a few forms. There will be hot-joinable pick up play that will allow larger team sizes, as well as tournaments that have fixed sizes and times. We aren’t currently revealing the game formats, but there are a number of shared goals that we want our PvP game types to have. They should all be easy to join in the middle of play and scale well to different team sizes. They should be equally fun for casual and competitive play, with dynamic team-based objectives. They should be observer friendly and avoid stalemate situations. Most importantly, they should be FUN.
Many competitive sports and e-sports do use an odd or varying number of players. Soccer is played with 11 players per side, unless it is indoors and then it is played with six. Counterstrike uses five person teams for competitive play. We believe that in order to build a more cohesive user base for competitive PvP the team size for tournaments should be smaller than eight (to make it easier to form teams), and should remain consistent between all game types and tournaments ( to avoid fragmenting the user base). We are not yet revealing the actual team size, but it will be greater than four and less than six.
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So true it gets so annoying educating the lazy, especially if you know that their misconceptions will spread like wildfire, producing 10 other uninformed people.
It's one thing to post "problems" you have with a developers features, it's another to post problems that the developer has already posted the solution to and is easily available through reading the usual sources. If people read more than they posted they'd realise the vast majority of they're questions had already been answered.
What really irks me is the "will this game be instanced" or "can I jump" questions. A few seconds of reading would have answered those questions for you. A shorter amount of time than posting that question and waiting for the answer and amking yourself look like a fool....
Please go trol some other thread.
Post only if you have something inteligent (or just your view) to say on the subject either + or -, but rellating to the subject.
The subject here is: Is 5X5 too small for RPG PVP ?
How do you aviod knowing the outcome of the fight just from the builds ?
Will the fight be interesting enough. In 8X8, you had several goals to win the fight: getting the flag, killing the other team, holding shrines, killing NPCs, VOD, ...
How many objectives can you have in 5X5 ?
I'd say.. wait for them to release more information or until you can play yourself
. How are we supposed to know if we don't even know how the new 5x5 matches will work and what they will look like. Seriously search before you ask and if you can't find it in any interview the information isn't released yet 
.
They have hardly released any information on PVP. Just have some patience and wait for that information before jumping to conclusions.
He's not trolling redOrc, he's just stating what's already been said by the devs. 5v5 is, in my opinion, a much better solution than 8v8. The smaller scale, the better.
In Warhammer, our server would coordinate 6v6's because it it did away with the glaring imbalances a certain group make-up were capable of by having a 12-man group. Groups of 6 couldn't exploit certain aspects of stacking certain classes and builds, and because of this, it caught on.
I think 5v5 would be perfect with this game, although we still don't have all the information on all the PvP outlets, I think they're smart enough to balance objectives/PvP modes into this smaller scale. You'll have your larger scale fights with W vs W still, so there's that.
Won't there be any open world PvP?
My gaming blog
Yeah, there will be. They're calling it World vs World and it's sounding A LOT like RvR-style pvp. Instead of "Realms" you'll have "Worlds" which are another word for servers. You'll have objectives to take and claim, awarding your World with benefits. They said it'll match 3 Worlds weekly against each other in an instanced (?) area, which sounds like a lot of fun.
Only in The Mists. In your regular world in which you explore, quest, do missions, etcetera, there won't be any pvp.
Competitive PVPer from GW found warhammer not good enough in that respect. This is not said to downplay warhammer, just to clarify that in order to attract the PVP GW players you need to much a better job. In fact, there were lots of player that played GW in the past and would have joined warhammer in an instant had it's PVP been a par with GW.
I just hope that the benefits for World PvP (or how it was called) will be much higher than for "structured pvp". Since I come from DAoC and wasn't one of those elitist "you stupid f***er added to our 8vs8. Go and f*** yourself you damn leecher"-guys.
This way those two factions who are always annoyed by each other could go seperate ways and hence do not hinder each other.
Btw with benefits I do not neccessarily mean Item Rewards or special PvP abilities. It could also be boni for your guild.
GW1 started with no real reward for "structued PVP" other than fame.
As time grew Anet has fixed it and provided some rewards for that but nothing to match the PVE rewards. Anyhow, it is always easyer to hammer an NPC with a specific designed build for that, than killing a human player. So, in that respect you can always have more rewards in PVE than PVP. But we can expect Anet to design rewards that are spcific to PVP that you cannot aquire in PVE.
I agree here completely. World PvP rewards need to be much higher than instanced PvP ones.. for a simple reason that World PvP is inherently risky, not so much in the sense you'll get beaten than in whether you'll find anyone to fight at all.
WAR suffered immensely at release because the PvP rewards were equal for instanced and world PvP. If you queued for scenarios you'd be guaranteed you'll spend your time racking up that xp and rp constantly. On the other hand you could be wandering an open RvR area for half an hour to find someone to kill... and then if you died you wouldn't respawn at a convenient place inside the instance but most proably on the other end of the zone where the search would have to begin again... This made a huge disparity in per-time rewards between instanced and non-instanced play which very quickly drained the open RvR areas due to a simple vicious circle.
Only when Mythic massively increased open PvP per-kill rewards compared to instanced PvP ones the world RvR picked up. Now those two modes are approximately equally popular, with per-hour average rewards being roughly the same.
You're assuming that in pvp you are rewarded with gear.
From what I read about the competitive arena pvp, everyone will be at the same level and gear and skills. With this in mind then gear becomes a irrelevant. Therefore I am assuming that pvp rewards will be other than gear.
I was using Warhammer as an example of how small-scale PvP almost completely changes how everything works compared to the normal large-scale found in RvR. In my opinion, I think what the devs are doing with this game, as far as the PvP is concerned, is great. Like I said earlier, I think smaller-scale fights afford for more tactical make-ups and play. Again, just my opinion.
Agreed. A player's decisions are more significant to the outcome in small-scale combat. Zerg fights can still be fun, but I think the combat is more shallow. 5x5 is good team size, especially since GW2 players will have more skills than in GW1.
How is anyone supposed to know that if none of us have played the game?
Pointless thread is pointless.
Well RvR has a different appeal than small scale fights.. The enjoyment there is more of a strategic, communal nature. While the warbands may be nothing more than zergs, the overall leadership of the campaign is crucial to the victory. It is not so much about whether you can wtfpwn somebody or even if your group is the best but in knowing that you are contributing to a graeater effort - even if it means guarding an objective just on the off chance it might get atttacked and following the unfolding of the battle on the chat. There is a real exhiliration in participating in a coordinated effort which happens over a large area. It is not so much about individual gratification but more of a joy in following a large battle unfold knowing that you are participating in it too.
As for 5v5.. imo that's pretty much a perfect number for that kind of PvP contest... Imo it is not simply arbitrary but it kinda evolved through all the PvP games so far. 5 is small enough for everybody to be able to follow everybody else (thus you can have tightly knit groups able to react to each other) and yet large enough for a complex fight.