You guys just don't seem to get what he means by his complaints with the UI
the fact that you have to type all these stupid commands to do anything at all is the point. Why should I have to type /keyboard to modify keybinds when it should be in the controls part of the options menu. Why should I have to type an insane amount of shit to make one macro?
The UI is very dated and should be re-done. But it is good for it's age, but the age is showing hardcore.
It is in the options menu, at the character select screen. How do you expect to make a macro without typing? Isn't that what a macro is?
Also, need I remind you all, you can download custom UIs? It's been a feature since 2003, though everyone likes to pretend WoW was the first and only MMO to ever allow that.
I've gone back a few times, the last when classic was still around. I had a blast and overall good experiences. I parked a few toons in thid and molv, even 1 in cv for a bit when there was action there hehe, and a couple at 50. (liked old frontiers better than new)
I kind of liked the UI, and only had one problem with the game. I couldn't get use to the movement anymore after playing more modern games. The moving back and forth, stopping, straffing (ugh), so clunky I guess is the word. I absolutely loved the gameplay, just grr, the movement, lol.
It always bothered me a little bit through the years, but once other games came out later, I noticed it more. Too bad no games after have really compared for me yet.
Reviewer probably shouldn't have taken some PLing straight to 50. Hang out in thid for a bit, then level up in BGs until molvik. I always found that to enhance my gameplay instead of rushing to 50. Also potions are mostly a decent alternative to buffbots, and by the time you need pots, kind of easy to have plenty of money.
Just got done playing some free time of Warhammer, and sigh, its so depressing when I compare it to daoc. Too few classes. It has its moments, but daoc is still way beyond it. I keep thinking of going back to daoc, but I make myself remember 2 things: I hate the movement, and I never really liked the ToA content, which is all that is available now.
I remember having to customise my DAOC UI. It is quite simple but if you can’t do it just ask on the forums and someone will show you how. The UI is no big issue.
The botting and huge advantage old players have is an issue. There are special advancement paths as well as the kit difference to take into account. If there were many other new players it would not be such an issue, but it the late stages of a MMO’s life the proportion of old players to new is rather high.
i played daoc for 4+ years and i enjoyed the game immensely. i started playing on the palomides server for 1 1/2 and then switched over to ector, a classic server. i made 8 level 50's on ector and all were lgm crafters. i had 1 rr5(mercenary) and a rr3 necromancer. i had SO much fun playing my necromancer but enough nastalgia.
i agree with both the original review and the rebuttal review by stormbow. stormbow's prose style is "passionate" to say the least. when i left the game, nov 07 i believe, the classic servers were still viable. so when i left, the overall helpfulness of the community was high, there were always people willing to help with the champ quests, and epic armour quests. but even back then there were not many "new", not "newb" players. most of us were disgruntled TOA players who jumped at the chance to switch over to the classic servers.
historically i am a bit challenged since i dont know what precipitated the elimination of the classic servers to the now GWAIN TOA servers of today. the population in nov 07 is similar to what it is today. i was a proud member of the RETRIBUTION guild and guilds were alive and thriving at that time.
when i started playing daoc, realm pride and indeed friendships were alive and well. i still remember my 2 best in game friends RHIANNON, and MARTHYSINE an armsman and paladin who adventured out with me in the virtual daoc world.
i would jump at the chance of returning to the game but 2 aspects of the game must be changed:
1. elimination of TOA- i joined the classic servers for a reason- i did not like the TOA grind for armour and drops.
2. elimination of "cross-realm jumpers- that would mean if you logged in to an albion character, you would not be able to change realms say in 6 hours.
there was a daoc 2 thread not long ago, so i would encourage all who have responded here respond there as well.
live long and prosper strength and honor
if urgent do it yourself if you have time-delegate it if you have forever-form a committee
This is the internet, so it's not surprising that a couple here in the thread have thought I was mad about this review. In fact, I am not. I just don't believe it was a legitimate review of several aspects of the game. (Those being pvp and the community.)
I know that some are not aware of it, so I'll go ahead and mention it here- Before the Use1 and Use2 abilities of items had their own icons, you could make macros to access said abilities. Those macros may also be used to access whatever is in a specific slot of your inventory. Why is that helpful? It might not be to everyone, but if you always keep your water breathing potion (for example) in slot 30 of your inventory, the macro will always access that slot without you having to replace the potion's USE icon every time you replace the used up potion. (Some people are epic lazy, they like crap like that.)
Yes, stormbow, I am well aware of how to make a macro but that isn't what I was referencing. My point was, it is totally un-necessary for a beginner and is primarily an advanced feature. Shift left click on any command in the menu creates a hot button to drag to the action bar.
The new tutorial the "reviewer" completely failed to mention, teaches you to do that.
All items and items with special abilities have icons to drag to the action bar in their info screen totally negating the need to type /use ********. You can place 3 action bars on screen and drag / rotate them anywhere on screen...which the "reviewer" completely does not mention. You can drag everything in the UI anywhere...which the "reviewer" either doesn't mention or is unaware of. The "reviewer" seems to have a lot of trouble with the UI which implies to me he is not all that familiar with the game despite his claim he is an experienced player.
How experience a 19 year old can be with a 9 year old game...makes me wonder what his point of reference is. He obviously didn't play pre-ToA hence no mention at all of the differences and changes to that catastrophic expansion...which is what former experienced players really want to know.
This has to be the worse "review" I have ever seen here. The guy says he power leveled to cap in 5 days, complains about it, says the RvR is great but only tells us he saw buff bots at the gates but tells us NOTHING about the actual RvR... I am amazed mmorpg.com even posted this. It is painfully obvious the "reviewer" hardly did any actual reviewing and put very little time in the game.
He makes ZERO mention of any of the changes over the years, show almost no understand of the basics of the UI and...power leveled, a generally frowned on practice in most MMO's ESPECIALLY for a "reviewer", talked about buff bots...how could anyone take this as a serious legitimate review?
What would you think about this review if it was the first one you read about SW ToR rather then DAoC?
When you "re-review" you basis of comparison is prior review. This "re-reviewer" completely fails to do that. What you are looking to do is see the differences in the older version to the newer version. No mention is made of this at all hence this is no "re-review".
I don't really like to reply to the comments I receive on my reviews but here goes. You’re entitled to your opinion that’s fine, however, I feel you are being overtly aggressive.
I have played this game on and off since its launch. I am not a hardcore veteran neither a "free trial" player as you put it. I own this game, I enjoy this game and I feel I was objective in my comments. I started this game with a dozen level 50's and also rolled afresh. I spent a fair amount of time over the last few months playing this game, I enjoy writing these reviews as much as I do playing games, I have nothing to gain by lying.
in regards to the state of the community; on my new character I received money and armor from almost every veteran I happened across offering help. On my older characters I received numerous guild invites, lots of help and guidance. Please do not insult me and tell me exactly how I experienced the game, from what I have seen, the community is friendly and very welcoming to new comers, your experience may differ.
This is a great game, I had some issues with it as mentioned but there is a lot to be positive about. Surely the easy path for any review is simply to outline the faults? Only see the negatives in an old game? I respect your feedback and take onboard various comments; I just feel you are being a little unfair.
Overly aggressive is putting it very very politely. It is clear that to some extent the problems he has with other players and the game comes from the fact that he is just a jerk with an extremely negative outlook. It was a thoughtful review on the current state of the game and your personal experience, but instead of adding to the conversation in a constructive way, he uses words like "lying" and "puking" information. Everyone's mileage may vary in a game experience and if you are just a jackass you will likely find that people don't seem to like you much. Then you get to complain about how no one wanted to group with you. Hmmm, go figure.
Currently playing: Rift Played: SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot World of Warcraft, AoC
Because, unlike most people, I don't read reviews simply for their face value. I read a review for information, not opinion. I'm not saying Mr. Tingle's review was spectacular or 100% accurate, but than again, his review was that of a returning player, not an 8+ year veteran.
Despite all that, maybe his view of macro's is somewhat accurate. Let's say he skipped the tutorial, like a lot of "new players" do and didn't learn about macro's. Let's say his powerleveling occurred because, as he stated, everyone was standing outside the task dungeon entrance awaiting their turn. Pretty much everyone who disagrees with his review are people with more experience, but ask yourself this, why don't you submit a re-review of your own than. I always get a kick out of the "experts" who never provide valuable information on these websites, yet bitch at anyone who does cause it's not 100% to their liking.
No one will see a game the same way we do, because we all have different views and interests. As far as I'm concerned, Mr. Tingle provided a recap on his return visit to DAoC, nothing more, nothing less. Everything he discussed was as he saw it, not you, not your 8+ veteran experience, but his own experience.
Ok, now we can "what if" to death.
You review the game not "what if's" PL is in just about every game but if you read a review about WoW or SW ToR and the reviewer wrote "I PL to cap in 5 days because some asked me..."
It is out of context of the game, period. All games have bot, all games have exploits, all games have faults. DAoC has some. many games including EVE double accounts give unfair advantages will we reduce EVEs rating because of it? however, one pays for that second account and unless the company blocks, nothing you can do. Lets move on shall we?
I've already explained macros. Un-necessary for a new player.
If a player choses not to do the tutorial thats his individual problem not a review point.
I don't submit reviews because I make no claim to be a reviewer, maybe I should. I generally do not have a strong opinion of reviews, review my post history if you like, I very rarely comment on them. I can tell the difference between a good review and a bad review as I can tell the difference between a cooked pizza and an uncooked pizza. That doesn't mean I want to make my own for public consumption. Maybe I will one day.
Mr Tingle...we love you and we write this because it will make you a better reviewer Never power level for review purposes. No one will take you seriously.
Okay I'm a relatively new player to DAoC and actually to these sort of games as a whole. The most I'd done until two years ago, game-wise, was play Solitaire and Soduko. I absolutely love DAoC and I play in Midguard. I've found my way here after getting bored with the Facebook games - they were my "entry drug" so to speak.
As to those who can't get help, can't find groups to play with, get treated rudely ..... all I have to say is sometimes one gets what one gives out. I'm not a fabulous player, I'm a middle age woman who is just slowly grasping the complexities of the game and now the diversity of my already 6 toons - all in Midguard. I can't speak knowingly of other games and with years of experience, but I do know intellectual challenges, fun interactions, and hand-eye challenges and I know that while the youngster grasps it all quicker, they are still challenges - as we talk. Anyway, I have found lots of gracious, helpful folks and I've been randomly invited to join groups even when I haven't asked. Yes there are twerps, but it mirrors real life in that regard.
Sorry this is sort of a rambling mess of thoughts speaking out in defense of a game, and its devoted players that I've come to truly enjoy.
Whoever commented that you can not bind stuff to any key are noob and should die, use qbind retard, makes me think you never played the game before. Also the talk about outdated UI ?? Are you kidding me wth. only stupid noobs use the standard ui, go die please. We dont want some roleplaying nice looking ui shit, get a black ui optimized to fill up as little of the screen as possible, this game is PVP... counterstrike, but fun! sorry i cant handel people slamming daoc, still best game out there
Whoever commented that you can not bind stuff to any key are noob and should die, use qbind retard, makes me think you never played the game before. Also the talk about outdated UI ?? Are you kidding me wth. only stupid noobs use the standard ui, go die please. We dont want some roleplaying nice looking ui shit, get a black ui optimized to fill up as little of the screen as possible, this game is PVP... counterstrike, but fun! sorry i cant handel people slamming daoc, still best game out there
Good article tho!! Mostly valid points, and i found the authors idear to delete leveling very appealing, however it is a nice way to learn your class before rvr
Whoever commented that you can not bind stuff to any key are noob and should die, use qbind retard, makes me think you never played the game before. Also the talk about outdated UI ?? Are you kidding me wth. only stupid noobs use the standard ui, go die please. We dont want some roleplaying nice looking ui shit, get a black ui optimized to fill up as little of the screen as possible, this game is PVP... counterstrike, but fun! sorry i cant handel people slamming daoc, still best game out there
Good article tho!! Mostly valid points, and i found the authors idear to delete leveling very appealing, however it is a nice way to learn your class before rvr
There is no right or wrong here. It is just opinion. I've experieced everything the original poster wrote about as well as StormBow's opinions. I know there are nice folks and there are jerks. Although I don't agree with everything StormBow said, I think he makes some great points. I definately think the reviewer needs to go back and learn more about the UI.
My resume from the game was an early beta tester that played for years. I took a break when ToA came out because, well, it turned the game and my guild on its ass. I came back later and had great fun on the classic server and met new friends.
For me, the negatives are:
1. Buff Bots are just dumb
2. The above bots and other disadvantages for new players are a problem - but you can work with it if you like the game
3. People like the above who I quoted. If this is the example of the mindset left in the game, there would be no reason for me to play anymore. Skip levels completely? Only PVP? Elitism? No Realm Pride? One of the greatest aspects of DAOC for me was the ability to have great PVP and, catch this one, great PVE too! What a novel thought. I guess I'm one of the few left that likes to venture into the bowels of Trollhiem and five minutes after make my way to the battlefield to crush heads.
Call me crazy, but I do believe there are answers to the problems DAOC has. One thing I can tell you right now, if you are some suit trying to make a decision on which MMO to make - you are crazy if you don't make DAOC 2. Almost every new game has stolen ideas from DAOC and in many way in dumbing those ideas down they are not as good, I guarantee you with a new engine, and new models, no bots, and other stuff - a DAOC would be a sure-fire hit, Hell, if I had the money and a team I would make it myself.
DAoC was good back in the day. I value the past-players input that is more grounded without "spin" than I ever will a puff-piece from a writer or editor on this site. Your articles and reviews are hardly reality-based or honest. A 7.5 score for DAoC today, and a 7.5 score for STO. Enough said.
Stormbow's review is perfect. That's exactly what the game is like now-a-days.
Only people left (for the last few years...) are elitist snobs and asshats who have played way too long.
The worst part of the game besides how it's the best game ever ruined by the lack of (real) players is the unbalanced realms. When I played on Classic, Midgard destroy in Thidranki 3:1 and Hibernia destroyed Albion 2:1. It sucked to be anyone but Midgard, and it was boring to play as them because it was too easy (overpopulated. No one even had a chance because
# of Players > Player Skill > Template > Character Skill
It was the same in every battleground (except the BG's where no one played)
But in one instead of Midgard, it would be Albion who is overpopulated and everyone else loses.
I quit DAoC once and for all right after Lab expansion was released. Why?
Because... I had played the last 8 hours roaming in a 8 man group killing solo or 3-man groups (my group rolled them so fast I got off one shot- if lucky- before they died) until we eventually ran across the zerg and died instantly (with no chance of winning)
When I realized that I had played for 8 hours and the actual FUN part of the game was only 20 minutes long, and the only FAIR, (amazing) matches I had fought was ONE at 5 minutes long...that's when I decided the game was horrible and a waste of my life, time, and money.
I've had my most immersive- best times...and my WORST times playing a video game ever on Dark Age of Camelot.
You realize you need to put the keyboard down when you play for 8 hours to only get 20 minutes of entertainment, even if 5 minutes of those are the most amazing experience you ever encounter (a fair 8v8 battle or a ridiculously intense 30vs30 battle...which is the ONLY time I've ever felt like I was in a "real war")
Other than that, it's 7 hours and 55 minutes of roaming around a map WAY TOO LARGE for the small population while listening to 20-30 year old pot heads apathetically talk about Adult Swim, Family Guy, and Robot Chicken until the 40 year old cat-ladies who sound like Marge Simpson get on Vent to say "Hey guys, just got back from the casino. Any groups open?"
At the risk of going against the grain, I really don't see how DAoC influenced future MMORPGs all that much. World of Warcraft was created by many former EQ raiders who refined the EQ style of gameplay into a much more casual experience. Otherwise, especially at the top end, WoW is a carbon copy of EQ. Many games afterwards copied WoW, and even Mythic's next title has more in common with WoW than DAoC.
yea, please stop feeding the troll people. I have been back to the game for a couple weeks now, I have found that the majority of the community to be very helpful and pleasant, and make no mistake, if they were jerks like the one person said, I wouldn't have stayed. Everyone I have grouped with has been very nice, everytime I ask for advice, I get friendly response's. Everytime I see someone ask for help there are always a couple people answering the call, I don't see that kind of stuff happening in any other current MMORPG's. I was shocked to see how many people were playing the game when out of curiosity I tried it again, and everyday it seems like more and more people are going back. Amaze's me how one person's stated 'fact' is absolutely the opposite of what I am seeing in this game currently!
Several things, I feel, are dated or don't represent what a new player would experince....more like somebody who returned and wants to max his character as soon as possible to 50.
Esp. on Ywain you'll find everywhere people leveling, grouping and having fun. You don't need to stick on another player and let them level you...that's nonesense. The world is huge, you can without any troubles experince this world and find even some nice groups in low level part. Early on one can enter Battlegrounds which are too well visited. With Ywain all this complains are...well IMO not really there. You have lots of PvE, sure not like in new MMOs but it makes it easier to do it with friends together no matter how far they are apart in levels.
Later on if one is 50, you can easily get your first Temp together...every higher item is sale able with scales, glas or souls.
The only real trouble one can have is a dated UI, dated Questsystem and a different kind of skilling...this things are IMO only a trouble if you are experinced with other, newer MMOs...if not, if DAoC is your first then I don't see their any problems. At least not really a reason to rate it 7.5...esp. not with Ywain around.
Ok, if we still had the old clusters but so? Not really a review from somebody who is new to DAoC.
Never played DAoC. Guess I missed out, however, I'm hoping someone can answer an odd little curiousity of mine. Is DAoC where the term 'toon' originated? Or does it go farther back yet....never have found an answer on that one.
By me at least, and online since 95, "toon" was first used in DAoC. Multiple characters and eventually accounts were a norm, so "I'm bringing on another toon" made all sorts of sense first time ever.
What comes to this horrific forum drama about DAoC live and how the jeebus didn't come 2nd time as was promised and other disappointments, I can't but to suggest checking out Uthgard, where we still enjoy the real experience of what is DAoC. Old emain, enough population, realm pride attitude, pre SI regions and gear, and no buffbots.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then WoW - Online since launch - and now back again. EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on.. WHO - Online 08-10 LOTR-O - Online 06-08 Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
Never played DAoC. Guess I missed out, however, I'm hoping someone can answer an odd little curiousity of mine. Is DAoC where the term 'toon' originated? Or does it go farther back yet....never have found an answer on that one.
I saw the term used in EQ before DAoC was even released, so it's definitely not where it originated from. I'm not sure if it actually started in EQ, I just know that I definitely saw it there prior to DAoC existing.
I tried returning to DAoC a while back, just before the last server mergers. The OP hit on a lot of the topics that made me leave again. Having a buff bot as a requirement was a big one. I tried the Classic server but it wasn't much different. Instead of paying real money for a 2nd account you had to pay large amounts of in-game money for potions. Which as a new player to the server you really can't do, so the older richer players still had the advantage.
My original choice for realm was Midgard at release , which was bad since they were the most under played. I ended up leaving about 6 months after release when finding out our realm was outnumbered at least 3 to 1 by Albion and almost as much by Hib. I returned a short while later and played for a few years in Hib.
Anyway i decided to give Mid a try again when i returned, since realm balance is a lot better than it used to be. Although i really enjoyed the classes the community in Mid was just horrible. People were just down right rude, you'd get flamed for asking simple questions. There was almost constant bickering going on in the main city. No one seemed to group in battleground either , everyone seemed to try to solo. This may have been due to the fact that you absolutely need a healer and very few people play them. I always though that was a big downfall of midgard at release. They put all the best CC and healing into one class that got very few skill points, couldn't solo at all , and no one wanted to play them.
After a couple weeks i ended up going back to Hibernia. It was the exact opposite of Midgard. People were warm, welcoming and friendly. My old guild was dead but i found a new one very quickly and they were nice a bunch of people. The problems i ran into here were that i had played this realm for years and there really wasn't much new to experience. Also i had a hard time finding RvR groups out of my guild cause i didn't have the top end gear and i had a very low RvR level. I ended up playing alts in the one battleground that was still populated. (39-44 i think) I had a lot on fun in there but you cap realm points so fast that in a couple of days I'd have to leave. I ended up deleting characters and making new ones and just starting all over again so i could go back in there. It was really the only option for constant action in RvR. They really need to either find a way to populate the next battleground or make it so you can turn off your RP's and stay in the 39-44 one as long as you want. I don't think upping the realm rank would help , because it would cause imbalance.
The last thing that really bothered me were the boxers. When going to RvR with my guild we would usually go to a dungeon. It saves you from zergs and a lot of meaningless running around in those huge frontiers. Most of the battles in here are group vs group and a lot of fun. Until the boxers come. Out in the frontier it's easy to see a group coming but in the dungeons that are all twists and turns you just can't. So one person with characters with names like BobA BobB and BobC run through these dungeons with a bard and all PBAoE classes. Takes them about 2-3 seconds to kill you and then they just run off til they find another group. After a couple times of this everyone in your group is pretty well ticked off and most of them leave.
The only real solution to boxers is staying out of dungeons , because as i said frontiers are more open and they don't do as well out there. This of course means you have to be in frontiers though and i found a lot of people don't like them because they are just too big and it can take a long time to actually find some action and which realm it is happening in. It would be nice if they would make the frontiers a bit smaller or better yet combine them into one area so everyone is in the same zone. One of the reasons i think the 39-44 battlefield has remained so popular is that it is a fairly small area and is very open. This makes for fast action RvR.
One thing i really missed were those huge battles that used to take place out front of your frontier keeps. There used to be only 2 ways to get out into the frontiers and you'd have to run from there. Now of course they have porters to take you to any keep you own. While this really helps cut down on travel and helps to avoid the stealthers more, it took away all those battles i loved around the time of release.
sry but my only chars in DAoC are in midgard and you paint a very false and unrealistic picture of midgard and my highest lvl is a healer
DAoC was good back in the day. I value the past-players input that is more grounded without "spin" than I ever will a puff-piece from a writer or editor on this site. Your articles and reviews are hardly reality-based or honest. A 7.5 score for DAoC today, and a 7.5 score for STO. Enough said.
so why are you here then you contradict yourself by even being here and posting in the forum
Are you a messenger from GOD to save us poor souls from the evil of MMORPG?
Never played DAoC. Guess I missed out, however, I'm hoping someone can answer an odd little curiousity of mine. Is DAoC where the term 'toon' originated? Or does it go farther back yet....never have found an answer on that one.
I saw the term used in EQ before DAoC was even released, so it's definitely not where it originated from. I'm not sure if it actually started in EQ, I just know that I definitely saw it there prior to DAoC existing.
I use to use and remember people mostly using char in EQ, but did see toon start to surface a little before I started up daoc. It was definitely more prevalent in daoc though.
They need a Forum no not vn boards (it is so outdated).This would form more of a community and would give players new and returning players an easier time of finding things.
Ui- is fully customable plus you can always download Bob’s ui which will help with the Maps- Maps just stink even with Bob’s in it but at least they are larger and you can read them.
Returning players-in order for you to be somewhat ready for RVR:
Classic server transfer you get 5 free levels of MLs done after that you are stuck like the rest you need to grind 26k glass or half if you are from a classic server just to finish the ML’s , but you say I can find a group to do the ML’s all I can say is good luck with that, the only one running if any which is very unlikely is ML10 the reason it is not run very much is that you have ninja outside of the group which kills the mob and steals the loot, you are like how? It is because it Rewards the credits to the last person who does the kill, even if you are not in a group-so at least on the Ywain Server even getting in on a ML10 run are very rare. So per hour killing the statues on Wing Helm Island solo (and I mean no bots ) you get 700 so you do the math, or try to find a glass group but in order to get a group at least on the Hib side if you are not a healer or Aoe good luck with that, all the ones that are doing it fill it up with the above and on the condition the Aoe or healer will only go if they bring a baby with them so no room for live people.
If you did not cap your Bounty points out in Molviak – just reroll or be prepared to pay a hefty price for those items needed from that merchant.
Scales- you will need 500 scales per item you need for Armor you do the math and ha, ha if you think it’s that easy only 500 verses 26k….
Champion Levels- for the weapon and for the skills you need to ….that is right grind to level 5 for the weapon and grind to level 10 to max, so make sure you get this started before going to farm scales and glass each kill you get yields between 18-48 points per kill and you need…ya …..millions and millions……
Oh and if you want a artifact please make sure you grind another 1000 in glass which is nice it’s not so expensive unless you need a few arti’s.
Ok so now you got all that grinded and you got your template you go out to frontiers so excited but then you come to a screeching halt because all you do is wait and wait and wait….. 2 hours later ……in LFG channel you can even try singing pick me pick me I am fully templated I am god …..ya …….what a waste .. two months down the shitter and you are left to get Zerged…….such a shame what this game has come down to…..
Someone said join a guild well let’s see there are no forums and the VN boards have a outdated list so finding a guild is such a pill and even when you find one that is acceptable you won’t be joining in any of the fun unless hell freezes over. There is not one guild… well wait I take that back on the Alb side someone was holding ML’s on Sundays the whole set ….so maybe that is a guild doing it………
But other than the above the pluses are Thid and Molviak – this should be the whole game just let me live in either one of these but other than that all the old stuff I remember is just gone to memories.
But I will say the newbie area is done very well but after you ding out of it you either quest which by the way has tons of quest, I have not had one person PL much less ask me if I need help so I have no idea how the OP got random people just coming to help that made me laugh….but the advice channel is somewhat helpful….although sending tells is a pain in the Arse.
So if the above sounds appealing to you then by all means go for it ….but at least I gave a real view on what Daoc is, screw the graphics review and ui stuff and all the good love you got I want to hear the about the Game play all the down and ugly of it which by no means did you do unless you meant that you bought plat from the farmers and payed someone to PL you in 5 days and got all your MLS and Fully template in just 5 days….how could you even say such a thing ? What a crock of shi.. not one person new to the game could get someone to do all that……………why not instead of getting to the end in a week enjoy the ride? Learn to play explore as much as you can …….even if all you have to look forward to is what I stated at least I could enjoy the torture more by “Earning it” ….which for one thing ticked me off in your story …great way to bring people into the game by telling them to expect PL.
So bottom line is any game is what you want to make out of it as long as you go in knowing the truth about what to expect …
So for your review of:
Graphics have aged gracefully- Ha, Ha the graphics are the same since day one which is awesome- each realm has their own charm.
Lots of races and classes to choose from
Still full of players
Cons
Awful UI- Oh really? Is that why its fully customizable? Is that why WoW copied it for their game?
Fundamentally broken when it comes to the newcomer- You based this off you being PL in 5 days why not do the tutorial and work your way threw it> as a newbie would…. you will learn everything from crafting, to PVP, to using maps everything and you get two sets of armor with awesome stats for when you leave to go to the Battleground….and you get a cute bug for a fluff pet……..my husband and I stayed in this area till we were 15 then we followed directions and it lead us to Mag Mall (however you spell it ) with tons of quest there and my trainer kept giving me every 5 levels quest and a free weapon and also in the newbie area you get your mount…so why not play the game first before making a judgment.
PvP can feel very daunting to get into- This is so not true you can start at level one, very easy to jump into and you will not have to be geared for the low level stuff but as in any game the end game PVP needs gear.
Very top heavy- Agree with this as in any game! But Daoc has a great system to get to help with the end gear stuff even though you will either grind for it or pay for it......and would agree some what with this though just beacuse finding a group or a guild in any game with a long running is really hard.....but that is not the games fault they did put in the right stuff to try to help.
Comments
It is in the options menu, at the character select screen. How do you expect to make a macro without typing? Isn't that what a macro is?
Also, need I remind you all, you can download custom UIs? It's been a feature since 2003, though everyone likes to pretend WoW was the first and only MMO to ever allow that.
wow you can tell I haven't played in a long time then, as I gave up once toa came out.
I've gone back a few times, the last when classic was still around. I had a blast and overall good experiences. I parked a few toons in thid and molv, even 1 in cv for a bit when there was action there hehe, and a couple at 50. (liked old frontiers better than new)
I kind of liked the UI, and only had one problem with the game. I couldn't get use to the movement anymore after playing more modern games. The moving back and forth, stopping, straffing (ugh), so clunky I guess is the word. I absolutely loved the gameplay, just grr, the movement, lol.
It always bothered me a little bit through the years, but once other games came out later, I noticed it more. Too bad no games after have really compared for me yet.
Reviewer probably shouldn't have taken some PLing straight to 50. Hang out in thid for a bit, then level up in BGs until molvik. I always found that to enhance my gameplay instead of rushing to 50. Also potions are mostly a decent alternative to buffbots, and by the time you need pots, kind of easy to have plenty of money.
Just got done playing some free time of Warhammer, and sigh, its so depressing when I compare it to daoc. Too few classes. It has its moments, but daoc is still way beyond it. I keep thinking of going back to daoc, but I make myself remember 2 things: I hate the movement, and I never really liked the ToA content, which is all that is available now.
Since they have WAR now & I am sure they're working on something new they should make DAOC free to play... I would play it for sure then.
I remember having to customise my DAOC UI. It is quite simple but if you can’t do it just ask on the forums and someone will show you how. The UI is no big issue.
The botting and huge advantage old players have is an issue. There are special advancement paths as well as the kit difference to take into account. If there were many other new players it would not be such an issue, but it the late stages of a MMO’s life the proportion of old players to new is rather high.
i played daoc for 4+ years and i enjoyed the game immensely. i started playing on the palomides server for 1 1/2 and then switched over to ector, a classic server. i made 8 level 50's on ector and all were lgm crafters. i had 1 rr5(mercenary) and a rr3 necromancer. i had SO much fun playing my necromancer but enough nastalgia.
i agree with both the original review and the rebuttal review by stormbow. stormbow's prose style is "passionate" to say the least. when i left the game, nov 07 i believe, the classic servers were still viable. so when i left, the overall helpfulness of the community was high, there were always people willing to help with the champ quests, and epic armour quests. but even back then there were not many "new", not "newb" players. most of us were disgruntled TOA players who jumped at the chance to switch over to the classic servers.
historically i am a bit challenged since i dont know what precipitated the elimination of the classic servers to the now GWAIN TOA servers of today. the population in nov 07 is similar to what it is today. i was a proud member of the RETRIBUTION guild and guilds were alive and thriving at that time.
when i started playing daoc, realm pride and indeed friendships were alive and well. i still remember my 2 best in game friends RHIANNON, and MARTHYSINE an armsman and paladin who adventured out with me in the virtual daoc world.
i would jump at the chance of returning to the game but 2 aspects of the game must be changed:
1. elimination of TOA- i joined the classic servers for a reason- i did not like the TOA grind for armour and drops.
2. elimination of "cross-realm jumpers- that would mean if you logged in to an albion character, you would not be able to change realms say in 6 hours.
there was a daoc 2 thread not long ago, so i would encourage all who have responded here respond there as well.
live long and prosper
strength and honor
if urgent do it yourself
if you have time-delegate it
if you have forever-form a committee
Yes, stormbow, I am well aware of how to make a macro but that isn't what I was referencing. My point was, it is totally un-necessary for a beginner and is primarily an advanced feature. Shift left click on any command in the menu creates a hot button to drag to the action bar.
The new tutorial the "reviewer" completely failed to mention, teaches you to do that.
All items and items with special abilities have icons to drag to the action bar in their info screen totally negating the need to type /use ********. You can place 3 action bars on screen and drag / rotate them anywhere on screen...which the "reviewer" completely does not mention. You can drag everything in the UI anywhere...which the "reviewer" either doesn't mention or is unaware of. The "reviewer" seems to have a lot of trouble with the UI which implies to me he is not all that familiar with the game despite his claim he is an experienced player.
How experience a 19 year old can be with a 9 year old game...makes me wonder what his point of reference is. He obviously didn't play pre-ToA hence no mention at all of the differences and changes to that catastrophic expansion...which is what former experienced players really want to know.
This has to be the worse "review" I have ever seen here. The guy says he power leveled to cap in 5 days, complains about it, says the RvR is great but only tells us he saw buff bots at the gates but tells us NOTHING about the actual RvR... I am amazed mmorpg.com even posted this. It is painfully obvious the "reviewer" hardly did any actual reviewing and put very little time in the game.
He makes ZERO mention of any of the changes over the years, show almost no understand of the basics of the UI and...power leveled, a generally frowned on practice in most MMO's ESPECIALLY for a "reviewer", talked about buff bots...how could anyone take this as a serious legitimate review?
What would you think about this review if it was the first one you read about SW ToR rather then DAoC?
When you "re-review" you basis of comparison is prior review. This "re-reviewer" completely fails to do that. What you are looking to do is see the differences in the older version to the newer version. No mention is made of this at all hence this is no "re-review".
Overly aggressive is putting it very very politely. It is clear that to some extent the problems he has with other players and the game comes from the fact that he is just a jerk with an extremely negative outlook. It was a thoughtful review on the current state of the game and your personal experience, but instead of adding to the conversation in a constructive way, he uses words like "lying" and "puking" information. Everyone's mileage may vary in a game experience and if you are just a jackass you will likely find that people don't seem to like you much. Then you get to complain about how no one wanted to group with you. Hmmm, go figure.
Currently playing:
Rift
Played:
SWToR, Aion,EQ, Dark Age of Camelot
World of Warcraft, AoC
Ok, now we can "what if" to death.
You review the game not "what if's" PL is in just about every game but if you read a review about WoW or SW ToR and the reviewer wrote "I PL to cap in 5 days because some asked me..."
It is out of context of the game, period. All games have bot, all games have exploits, all games have faults. DAoC has some. many games including EVE double accounts give unfair advantages will we reduce EVEs rating because of it? however, one pays for that second account and unless the company blocks, nothing you can do. Lets move on shall we?
I've already explained macros. Un-necessary for a new player.
If a player choses not to do the tutorial thats his individual problem not a review point.
I don't submit reviews because I make no claim to be a reviewer, maybe I should. I generally do not have a strong opinion of reviews, review my post history if you like, I very rarely comment on them. I can tell the difference between a good review and a bad review as I can tell the difference between a cooked pizza and an uncooked pizza. That doesn't mean I want to make my own for public consumption. Maybe I will one day.
Mr Tingle...we love you and we write this because it will make you a better reviewer
Never power level for review purposes. No one will take you seriously.
Okay I'm a relatively new player to DAoC and actually to these sort of games as a whole. The most I'd done until two years ago, game-wise, was play Solitaire and Soduko. I absolutely love DAoC and I play in Midguard. I've found my way here after getting bored with the Facebook games - they were my "entry drug" so to speak.
As to those who can't get help, can't find groups to play with, get treated rudely ..... all I have to say is sometimes one gets what one gives out. I'm not a fabulous player, I'm a middle age woman who is just slowly grasping the complexities of the game and now the diversity of my already 6 toons - all in Midguard. I can't speak knowingly of other games and with years of experience, but I do know intellectual challenges, fun interactions, and hand-eye challenges and I know that while the youngster grasps it all quicker, they are still challenges - as we talk. Anyway, I have found lots of gracious, helpful folks and I've been randomly invited to join groups even when I haven't asked. Yes there are twerps, but it mirrors real life in that regard.
Sorry this is sort of a rambling mess of thoughts speaking out in defense of a game, and its devoted players that I've come to truly enjoy.
Whoever commented that you can not bind stuff to any key are noob and should die, use qbind retard, makes me think you never played the game before. Also the talk about outdated UI ?? Are you kidding me wth. only stupid noobs use the standard ui, go die please. We dont want some roleplaying nice looking ui shit, get a black ui optimized to fill up as little of the screen as possible, this game is PVP... counterstrike, but fun! sorry i cant handel people slamming daoc, still best game out there
Good article tho!! Mostly valid points, and i found the authors idear to delete leveling very appealing, however it is a nice way to learn your class before rvr
There is no right or wrong here. It is just opinion. I've experieced everything the original poster wrote about as well as StormBow's opinions. I know there are nice folks and there are jerks. Although I don't agree with everything StormBow said, I think he makes some great points. I definately think the reviewer needs to go back and learn more about the UI.
My resume from the game was an early beta tester that played for years. I took a break when ToA came out because, well, it turned the game and my guild on its ass. I came back later and had great fun on the classic server and met new friends.
For me, the negatives are:
1. Buff Bots are just dumb
2. The above bots and other disadvantages for new players are a problem - but you can work with it if you like the game
3. People like the above who I quoted. If this is the example of the mindset left in the game, there would be no reason for me to play anymore. Skip levels completely? Only PVP? Elitism? No Realm Pride? One of the greatest aspects of DAOC for me was the ability to have great PVP and, catch this one, great PVE too! What a novel thought. I guess I'm one of the few left that likes to venture into the bowels of Trollhiem and five minutes after make my way to the battlefield to crush heads.
Call me crazy, but I do believe there are answers to the problems DAOC has. One thing I can tell you right now, if you are some suit trying to make a decision on which MMO to make - you are crazy if you don't make DAOC 2. Almost every new game has stolen ideas from DAOC and in many way in dumbing those ideas down they are not as good, I guarantee you with a new engine, and new models, no bots, and other stuff - a DAOC would be a sure-fire hit, Hell, if I had the money and a team I would make it myself.
ColdSun
DAoC was good back in the day. I value the past-players input that is more grounded without "spin" than I ever will a puff-piece from a writer or editor on this site. Your articles and reviews are hardly reality-based or honest. A 7.5 score for DAoC today, and a 7.5 score for STO. Enough said.
Stormbow's review is perfect. That's exactly what the game is like now-a-days.
Only people left (for the last few years...) are elitist snobs and asshats who have played way too long.
The worst part of the game besides how it's the best game ever ruined by the lack of (real) players is the unbalanced realms. When I played on Classic, Midgard destroy in Thidranki 3:1 and Hibernia destroyed Albion 2:1. It sucked to be anyone but Midgard, and it was boring to play as them because it was too easy (overpopulated. No one even had a chance because
# of Players > Player Skill > Template > Character Skill
It was the same in every battleground (except the BG's where no one played)
But in one instead of Midgard, it would be Albion who is overpopulated and everyone else loses.
I quit DAoC once and for all right after Lab expansion was released. Why?
Because... I had played the last 8 hours roaming in a 8 man group killing solo or 3-man groups (my group rolled them so fast I got off one shot- if lucky- before they died) until we eventually ran across the zerg and died instantly (with no chance of winning)
When I realized that I had played for 8 hours and the actual FUN part of the game was only 20 minutes long, and the only FAIR, (amazing) matches I had fought was ONE at 5 minutes long...that's when I decided the game was horrible and a waste of my life, time, and money.
I've had my most immersive- best times...and my WORST times playing a video game ever on Dark Age of Camelot.
You realize you need to put the keyboard down when you play for 8 hours to only get 20 minutes of entertainment, even if 5 minutes of those are the most amazing experience you ever encounter (a fair 8v8 battle or a ridiculously intense 30vs30 battle...which is the ONLY time I've ever felt like I was in a "real war")
Other than that, it's 7 hours and 55 minutes of roaming around a map WAY TOO LARGE for the small population while listening to 20-30 year old pot heads apathetically talk about Adult Swim, Family Guy, and Robot Chicken until the 40 year old cat-ladies who sound like Marge Simpson get on Vent to say "Hey guys, just got back from the casino. Any groups open?"
At the risk of going against the grain, I really don't see how DAoC influenced future MMORPGs all that much. World of Warcraft was created by many former EQ raiders who refined the EQ style of gameplay into a much more casual experience. Otherwise, especially at the top end, WoW is a carbon copy of EQ. Many games afterwards copied WoW, and even Mythic's next title has more in common with WoW than DAoC.
yea, please stop feeding the troll people. I have been back to the game for a couple weeks now, I have found that the majority of the community to be very helpful and pleasant, and make no mistake, if they were jerks like the one person said, I wouldn't have stayed. Everyone I have grouped with has been very nice, everytime I ask for advice, I get friendly response's. Everytime I see someone ask for help there are always a couple people answering the call, I don't see that kind of stuff happening in any other current MMORPG's. I was shocked to see how many people were playing the game when out of curiosity I tried it again, and everyday it seems like more and more people are going back. Amaze's me how one person's stated 'fact' is absolutely the opposite of what I am seeing in this game currently!
Several things, I feel, are dated or don't represent what a new player would experince....more like somebody who returned and wants to max his character as soon as possible to 50.
Esp. on Ywain you'll find everywhere people leveling, grouping and having fun. You don't need to stick on another player and let them level you...that's nonesense. The world is huge, you can without any troubles experince this world and find even some nice groups in low level part. Early on one can enter Battlegrounds which are too well visited. With Ywain all this complains are...well IMO not really there. You have lots of PvE, sure not like in new MMOs but it makes it easier to do it with friends together no matter how far they are apart in levels.
Later on if one is 50, you can easily get your first Temp together...every higher item is sale able with scales, glas or souls.
The only real trouble one can have is a dated UI, dated Questsystem and a different kind of skilling...this things are IMO only a trouble if you are experinced with other, newer MMOs...if not, if DAoC is your first then I don't see their any problems. At least not really a reason to rate it 7.5...esp. not with Ywain around.
Ok, if we still had the old clusters but so? Not really a review from somebody who is new to DAoC.
Never played DAoC. Guess I missed out, however, I'm hoping someone can answer an odd little curiousity of mine. Is DAoC where the term 'toon' originated? Or does it go farther back yet....never have found an answer on that one.
By me at least, and online since 95, "toon" was first used in DAoC. Multiple characters and eventually accounts were a norm, so "I'm bringing on another toon" made all sorts of sense first time ever.
What comes to this horrific forum drama about DAoC live and how the jeebus didn't come 2nd time as was promised and other disappointments, I can't but to suggest checking out Uthgard, where we still enjoy the real experience of what is DAoC. Old emain, enough population, realm pride attitude, pre SI regions and gear, and no buffbots.
DAoC - 00-06 - And every now and then
WoW - Online since launch - and now back again.
EVE - Online since 07 - and still on, and on, and on..
WHO - Online 08-10
LOTR-O - Online 06-08
Also played : Asherons Call, EverQuest, EQ2, Dungeons & Dragons, Cabal, Dark & Light, GW, GW2, LA2, Ryzom, Shaiya, SWG, Allods, Forsaken World, ArcheAge, Secret World, Darkfall, Rift, ESO, Tera.
I saw the term used in EQ before DAoC was even released, so it's definitely not where it originated from. I'm not sure if it actually started in EQ, I just know that I definitely saw it there prior to DAoC existing.
sry but my only chars in DAoC are in midgard and you paint a very false and unrealistic picture of midgard and my highest lvl is a healer
so why are you here then you contradict yourself by even being here and posting in the forum
Are you a messenger from GOD to save us poor souls from the evil of MMORPG?
I use to use and remember people mostly using char in EQ, but did see toon start to surface a little before I started up daoc. It was definitely more prevalent in daoc though.
Here is the down and out no lie about daoc-
They need a Forum no not vn boards (it is so outdated).This would form more of a community and would give players new and returning players an easier time of finding things.
Ui- is fully customable plus you can always download Bob’s ui which will help with the Maps- Maps just stink even with Bob’s in it but at least they are larger and you can read them.
Returning players-in order for you to be somewhat ready for RVR:
Classic server transfer you get 5 free levels of MLs done after that you are stuck like the rest you need to grind 26k glass or half if you are from a classic server just to finish the ML’s , but you say I can find a group to do the ML’s all I can say is good luck with that, the only one running if any which is very unlikely is ML10 the reason it is not run very much is that you have ninja outside of the group which kills the mob and steals the loot, you are like how? It is because it Rewards the credits to the last person who does the kill, even if you are not in a group-so at least on the Ywain Server even getting in on a ML10 run are very rare. So per hour killing the statues on Wing Helm Island solo (and I mean no bots ) you get 700 so you do the math, or try to find a glass group but in order to get a group at least on the Hib side if you are not a healer or Aoe good luck with that, all the ones that are doing it fill it up with the above and on the condition the Aoe or healer will only go if they bring a baby with them so no room for live people.
If you did not cap your Bounty points out in Molviak – just reroll or be prepared to pay a hefty price for those items needed from that merchant.
Scales- you will need 500 scales per item you need for Armor you do the math and ha, ha if you think it’s that easy only 500 verses 26k….
Champion Levels- for the weapon and for the skills you need to ….that is right grind to level 5 for the weapon and grind to level 10 to max, so make sure you get this started before going to farm scales and glass each kill you get yields between 18-48 points per kill and you need…ya …..millions and millions……
Oh and if you want a artifact please make sure you grind another 1000 in glass which is nice it’s not so expensive unless you need a few arti’s.
Ok so now you got all that grinded and you got your template you go out to frontiers so excited but then you come to a screeching halt because all you do is wait and wait and wait….. 2 hours later ……in LFG channel you can even try singing pick me pick me I am fully templated I am god …..ya …….what a waste .. two months down the shitter and you are left to get Zerged…….such a shame what this game has come down to…..
Someone said join a guild well let’s see there are no forums and the VN boards have a outdated list so finding a guild is such a pill and even when you find one that is acceptable you won’t be joining in any of the fun unless hell freezes over. There is not one guild… well wait I take that back on the Alb side someone was holding ML’s on Sundays the whole set ….so maybe that is a guild doing it………
But other than the above the pluses are Thid and Molviak – this should be the whole game just let me live in either one of these but other than that all the old stuff I remember is just gone to memories.
But I will say the newbie area is done very well but after you ding out of it you either quest which by the way has tons of quest, I have not had one person PL much less ask me if I need help so I have no idea how the OP got random people just coming to help that made me laugh….but the advice channel is somewhat helpful….although sending tells is a pain in the Arse.
So if the above sounds appealing to you then by all means go for it ….but at least I gave a real view on what Daoc is, screw the graphics review and ui stuff and all the good love you got I want to hear the about the Game play all the down and ugly of it which by no means did you do unless you meant that you bought plat from the farmers and payed someone to PL you in 5 days and got all your MLS and Fully template in just 5 days….how could you even say such a thing ? What a crock of shi.. not one person new to the game could get someone to do all that……………why not instead of getting to the end in a week enjoy the ride? Learn to play explore as much as you can …….even if all you have to look forward to is what I stated at least I could enjoy the torture more by “Earning it” ….which for one thing ticked me off in your story …great way to bring people into the game by telling them to expect PL.
So bottom line is any game is what you want to make out of it as long as you go in knowing the truth about what to expect …
So for your review of:
Graphics have aged gracefully- Ha, Ha the graphics are the same since day one which is awesome- each realm has their own charm.
Cons