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DoTs Vs Direct Damage?
FuryV
Member UncommonPosts: 515
To be honest, I never really understood the point of DoTs, having played from a direct damage class perspective most of my life, but I've decided to try out a class which uses a lot of DoT attacks in a new game I'm trying out (Necromancer in Age of Conan if anybody's interested).
I was a little hesitant at first, because having not played a class which relies heavily on DoTs before I wasn't sure what to expect. I even went as far as thinking that DoTs were pointless as direct damage spells did the damage a DoT spell does but in one big blast, as opposed to having to wait for it to "tick". I never really thought of the other advantages apart from damage which a DoT spell does.
Therefore, I was just wondering if you guys wouldn't mind giving me a few examples of these advantages of a DoT vs a Direct Damage spell?
Many thanks.
Comments
DoTs (or their cousin- HoTs) tend to be far more efficient, and sometimes even more effective than their DD counterparts.
The idea is a balance between direct result, and sustained result. To make 'over time' more appealing, they need to have a forte. Direct damage (or healing) is far more decisive. Because of this, DoTs are typically far more efficient (output result: input cost).
That is exactly right, and we're not saying NO to save WoW, because it is already a lost cause. We are saying NO to dissuade the next group of greedy suits who decide to emulate Blizzard and Cryptic, etc.
We can prevent some of the future games from spewing this crap, but the sooner we start saying no, the better the results will be.
So - Stand up, pull up your pants, and walk away.
- MMO_Doubter
one plus is when in a group those dots don't immediatly add all the aggro/threat that the spell will do all at once. so you don't have to wait to start attacking cause you know once you attack your pulling it off the tank.
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from a PvP stand point, I always liked DOTs because you can usually apply them and then focus on kiting while they tick. You can always fire some Dots and abuse terrain and/or "line of sight" mechanics to hide yourself while your dots are doing their damage. This is a pretty significant advantage in pvp.
Some good points there, thanks guys.
Let me present it in infomercial format.
Like doing damage but tired of having to press buttons repeatedly? Is your role in combat busy because you have manage debuffs and pets? Who has time to press buttons to do direct damage and ouch carpal tunnel syndrome!
You need Damage over Time spells, its easy simply faceroll, set it and forget it.
Anyway the point is DoTs are good for characters that have to manage things like debuffs or pets but are also a damage dealing class. DoTs allow you to keep doing damage while still fulling your role as a debuffer and/or pet class.
Like when I played a warlock in WoW, I used my DoTs, then I concentrated on casting debuffs on the appropriate mobs, and since curses are a big part of being a warlock I needed to use DoTs to do damage while concentrating on my other role. If I had all direct damage spells I wouldn't have time to cast debuffs since my time would be monopolized by damage spells.
All men think they're fascinating. In my case, it's justified
At the pure mechanical coal-face of it, DOT can allow you to put more dps in during an extended period of time. Sure, burst damage may allow you to do immense damage in a short time, but what if your opponent recovers from that (heal or resist for example). Often high DPS classes may find that there long casting times put them at a disadvantage if their first attacked is resisted or recovered from. To super-simplify it, often burst damage has peaks and troughs (crits or resists), where DOT is all about average damage over a period of time.
Obviously this depends what game/class/system you are using, but DOT classes can often put solid, constant damage down over a period of time, and because they aren't doing huge bursts...they may even not pull agro in PVE
From a game-play perspective, DOTs may often have a couple of advantages including:
1) short casting time ( a lot of MMO's I've played DOT's were amongst the shortest casting times...ranging from instant to 1 or 2s).
2) You don't have to be in LOS to do damage.
3) Even if either party runs away you're still doing damage.
I had a good example recently, playing the Vanguard trial. I was playing a psionicist who had a couple of DOT attacks. Because of the other games and classes I've been playing recently I'm used to just being able to tank whatever I fought. In Vanguard, however, I ran into a boss who was smashing me toe-to-toe. The third time I fought him, all I did was DOT and run. Brave? No. Successful? Yes. One of my DOT's slowed as well, allowing me to drop some burst damage on him now and then as well. There is now way I would have been able to take him down just using burst damage.
But where DOT really shines for me is PVP. Because of the short casting time, and animations which often don't show the attackee where you are..you can often lay 3 or 4 DOTs on your target before he even knows he's being attacked or where you are. If you're well hidden enough you may even take out your target before he even knows who's attacking him. The other great advantage in PVP is that you're going to continue to do damage, even if your target moves out of LOS or runs away. Melee classes will often try and pull you close by cutting down your LOS, but this won't work if you're got a couple of DOTs off already. Hiding or getting out of range isn't going to help when you're taking x damage per second.
Playing a DOT character is a choice. For me it's a good one. It allows flexibility in PVE and PVP. Sometimes DOT characters can be a little bit boring, but more often than not they are effective.
So I had got the rank of stone guard on my shammy. This was back before alliance had shammys.
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I headed over to the centaur camp to turn in a quest.
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There was a crowd of lowbee horde there. Seems some ally rogue was killing the quest giver. When the rogue met any resistance, he vanish and restealth. Wasn't anything the lowbees would do.
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So they all looked at me like I should do something since I was a stone guard and all.
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First thing I do when up against a rogue is hit them with fire shock. It's a dot.
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So I dotted the rogue. The rogue soon discovered he was in over his head. Plus the lowbees started in on him too. He vanished.
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Just like clockwork, the flame dot ticked he took damage and he reappeared. And then he died.
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So at least in the game I was playing, dots break stealth.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Much of it probably does come down to PvP.
DD Caster vs. DoT Caster: DD'er kills the DoT'er...then tries not to die from DoTs.
DD Caster vs. Melee: Melee kills DD'er.
DoT Caster vs. Melee #1: DoT'er kites the Melee around until Melee dies.
DoT Caster vs. Melee #2: Melee kills DoT'er and then falls over dead from DoTs.
It really gets more into the mechanics of the DoTs and DD spells in the game itself. If the DoTs are instant cast in PvE fights where there a lot of movement is required versus DD spells that take time to get off, you run the risk of the DD caster dying or simply not being able to DPS during movement.
Note: The vs. thing up there is not set in stone. Certain games allow the DD folks to kite. Certain games have the Melee folks as unkitable or highly resistant to kiting. Then you can always add in fun things like the Hunter in WoW who generally does DD/DoTs while kiting.
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Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
Rogues cried enough in WoW for such sensible things no longer to apply.
I miss the MMORPG genre. Will a developer ever make one again?
Explorer: 87%, Killer: 67%, Achiever: 27%, Socializer: 20%
One major negative of DoTs is that in some games certain spells don't stack or only stack so many times which means you must choose your group with that in mind so your damage doesn't get gimped because there are too many of your class there too.
I used to "aggro kite" with my nec in EQ1.
You use a snare on a mob, so it chases after ya slowly, fill em up with dots, and as the Mob dies, while chasing you, you are medding up more mana to do it again.
It allowed for constant pulling in EQ.....which used to really mean something yrs ago as game forced folks to use meditation breaks. The tables in Plane of Fire were probably the best exp around, and being able to constantly solo them meant huge exp. Not many classes could solo in EQ back then, and only necs/druids could clear tables effeciently.
Wizards used direct damage(DD) with their snare...so although they could also kite, they would have to med up since they burned down mobs faster, and DD was more mana costly.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
i think the fact that this topic is even applicable to practically every fucking MMO on the market is goddamn pathetic. i used to love this genre. there needs to be some serious innovation, instead of relying on the same core mechanics.
the official MMORPG.com deadhead
Depends on the game, but they are best used if you can slow or stop the MOB, or if you can run fast. Gives the ability to kite or just root it and watch it cook. Like EQ1 Druids were the masters of DOT’s that I’ve found in any game. Just root the MOB which lasts for a minute or so, and stack 3 or 4 DOT’s. Sit back and enjoy the scenery. In whatever case, DOT’s usually are more efficient, just take longer.
M59, UO, EQ1, WWIIOL, PS, EnB, SL, SWG. MoM, EQ2, AO, SB, CoH, LOTRO, WoW, DDO+ f2p's, Demos & indie alpha's.
1) Apply DoTs
2) Duck for cover
3) ???
4) PROFIT!!
By far, the biggest difference between DD and DoT is the fact that DoT spells can be healed through. This is most significant in PvP settings.
For example; if you nail someone with a big DD it can kill them outright. However, if you hit someone with a DoT, they'll just get healed by a teammate (or a potion) before the damage can kill them. Personally I've found that, in most MMOs, DD classes are better in group PvP and DoT based classes are better at solo play.
The other advantages and disadvantages of DoTs have already been covered.
to me DD and DoT's are the exact same thing. one has it cast time tacked on the front with huge front damage after; the other is instant and makes up it's cast time in its duration on the enemy. I would actually go with DoT's because you get mobility with them. bot can inflict the same damage in the same amount of time.
I'm a fan of DoT's over direct damage.
The big benefit I find with DoTs is that you can multi-DoT; stack multiple DoTs on multiple enemies. One becomes the MMO equivalent of a platespinner .. It requires a lot more thought than simply spamming DD spells and can have a much higher (overall) damage output too.
I used to quad kite the tables in Plane of Fire as a wizard. But it did take a ton of concentration. Needed to ensure that snare was always up, needed to make space (time) between you and the quad so you could cast a spell without getting beaten on. Wheras if you were a DoT class, you really only had to keep an eye on your snare and then run off to the far corner and wait to reapply snare, while your DoT's ate away their life. In many ways I prefer playing a DoT class nowadays (I'm getting old) and the "cast 3+ dots and wait on timers" now appeals to me alot more than constant button mashing.
The other aspect is that DoT's start out slow then pile on the damage later, in many cases over an extended fight a DoT class will out damage a straight DD class. You garner less initial aggro, have constant damage and little to no worry about pulling aggro as spike damage is limited.