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Poll: A Question of Trust
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Member Posts: 219
It certainly looks like Star Wars: The Old Republic is going to be a milestone in MMO gaming. It represents a gigantic investment by Bioware and its stakeholders EA and LA. Right now, there is a year to launch and the marketing campaign for the game is well underway. That campaign has been spearheaded by a number of personalities at these studios - including designers, programmers and producers who have been giving interviews and speeches to the media and releasing detailed commentaries on footage and imagery.
If their words are anything to go by, the vast breadth and features of this game will combine to make SWTOR the new gold standard in gaming and an amazing commercial success.
But...
...chief amongst these personalities are a number of old SOE and Lucas Arts executives who were directly responsible for one of the greatest fiascos the industry has ever experienced - the NGE at Star Wars Galaxies. If you don't know what that is, check out the Vets Refuge at the SWG Forum sections. Those executives, who are now all busy selling SWTOR, include old SOE hads like Gordon Walton who is now Co-Studio Director at Bioware and Dallas Dickinson who is now Senior Content Producer. Meanwhile, over at LA, Jake Neri and Julio Torres, are both Senior Producers with responsbility for SWTOR.
These people, and others, have a very good reputation within the industry, but not such a good one amongst MMO player and subscriber communities. This is because they have a record of riding roughshod over players' views and interests, of speaking to them dishonestly and of making decisions designed to ramp up a game's short-term commerial revenues often at the expense of its playability (and therefore its long-term commercial revenues).
Additionally, EA which is the owner of Bioware and the chief investor of the game is lead by John Riccitiello who, as CEO, is known for making erratic and often controversial decisions about the games in his stable which often lead to the sudden deterioration in their quality. He has already made a number opf statements about SWTOR which have then had to be 'corrected' or 'adjusted' by other EA, Bioware and LA executives - including the claim that the game's revenues would primarily come from DRM transactions (a statement later withdrawn)
So my question is this:
Bearing in mind their previous record - and with an eye on the dishonesty or confusion of other MMO personalities responsible for disasters in other studios - from Tasos to Richard Garriott to Paul Barnett - do you trust the developers to actually provide the game and the features that they have have promised? Or do you think they are massively and deliberately overselling the game in order to sell as many boxes as they can at launch?
Comments
Why is it going to be a milestone in mmorpg gaming?
Furious Fighters
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
Because, at an estimated $150 million, it represents the largest investment ever made in an MMO.
Some it's a milestone because of the money being spent. So people should be excited because $150million is being spent on a game, is this what you are saying?
Furious Fighters
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
Not a milestone, a step forward though in story department.
Theyre still overhyping it though. The real western gaming industry way!
He's right. At least in the minds of MMO players - the resources spent and the IP involved make this game a turning point in the MMO industry.
Either way - players are going to see this game as a massive success or failure.
"" Voice acting isn't an RPG element....it's just a production value." - grumpymel2
What about a third option.I don't trust or mistrust them...I'll wait and see when the game
s NDA is lifted and/or I actually get to play it.Till then it's just useless speculation based on blind faith or irrational fearmongering.
I would have had more faith if Bioware had gone it alone and not been bought out by EA. Cause for some reason I seem to trust BW when I really shouldn't after the droped DA:Awakening on us and it proved to be a complete departure from the fun of Origins.
With this sort of money on the table there is no question or doubt the game is expected to be a massive cash cow. You don't put up 150 million unless you expect a lot back. So I fully expect to see a Bioware shop selling everything from Anakin and Obi'wan style robes to gungan and ewok companions. If it will sell it will be in. I also don't think it likely that players will have much say over how things go, as decisions will be based off market research constantly looking to cater to the lowest common demoninator. Even if that lowest common demoninator doesn't have any interest in an MMO.
So I think the game will be very similar to WoW, investors who care little for MMO's care a lot about WoW style profits. They don't give a damn about being innovative or pushing the boat out. They would own WoW if they could and thats what they want to see. I imagine the board rooms being full of people, designers trying to pitch ideas while guys in Suits go 'yeah but we were thinking more about World of Warcraft. Yours is obviously one way to go but we would like our elves to have big floppy ears.' And I think we have already seen some of this with the possible launch dates. The rumour on the boards was an October 2010 release date, we say game testing sign up in October 2009 so a year or so seemed likely. The WoW announces they are looking at October 2010 for their expansion. Shortly after a Spring 2011 launch date is suggested for ToR. Then Blizzard say that the October launch date might not happen and it might be pushed back to 2011. It seems likely that EA who have already been burnt once wont chance going up against WoW and will push ToR back further.
Oh here we go again 150 million reasons to believe nothin you say yet again.
Another post with statements and assumptions coming from yourself. A milestone in MMO gaming, give it a rest most sane people expect the game to be just that a game with good content and playability value.
Not sure why you are trying to big the game up , when all you ever seem to do is doubt, doubt, doubt.
False expectation is bad for your health, try to enjoy the ride the game will be what it will be, not what you try to fabricate in your mind.
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Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
They still overhype the game and i think they need to do if they want to reach 2 million players playing the game.
I just hope they dont fail like FailCom done it with AoC. Was aswell too overhyped.
EvE doors
See the best doors on EvE-on!
Until they release the game everything they say is suspect IMO.
Gaming companies are run by greedy fukers at the very top, not gamers.
From what I have seen this will be another STO in the end.
Would love to be proven wrong and just don't see it happening. I also don't buy that they have spent as money as they claim, or will in the end. Likely more hype as a reason for charging more for a box than anyone ever has.
It's all marketing and eye candy atm IMO.
I think you hit the nail here...I never thought about it this way. I was like BW is trying to make SORPG because they're good at it....but the thing with the owners...well it definately looks like this is the case....pretty pissing though:-/
I think I actually spent way more time reading and theorycrafting about MMOs than playing them
Yes. That is the actual reason this game might be a milestone in MMO history.
Why? Imagine if this game fails... Which company will risk mustering 150 mil for an mmo after that? They will have to understad that the WoW formula cannot be repeated or cloned and will propably turn to innovative ideas...
Or imagine if SWTOR is a huge sucess.. Comperable to WoW or even better! Then what will be the next forumla for a MMO? Clone the same old formula but invest 200 mil... Or 250 mil... You get my drift i hope...
Whatever way this game goes it will have severe consequence on the MMO market...
Somehow i cannot help myself to want this game to be a flop... I want to play it but i can see the bad consequence it'll have for MMO innovation which right now is in the hands of indie studios.. And we know that sucks!
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
RIP George Carlin.
I find myself in the third option area of wait and see.
True the budget seems a bit to much for me, and some of the names are trustworthy and others not. So im stuck in the middle. Im just glad its not another WoW clone.
www.gofigureitout.ca
Ah, don't ye worry. There'll also be other MMO's that are on the list for a release around that period of time, like a GW2.
And they - and maybe also some of the other ones - will show that you can make an excellent and popular MMO with less money, while STILL being innovative. So there's hope yet
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Are they overhyping it?
Seems to me that it's the players who are overhyping it.
Bioware has basically released "x amount of info" and the players have thrown themselves so much into a tizzy that they are fighting over those scraps and and reading into each and every piece with the scrutiny of teenagers trying to figure out if someone likes them.
If anything the entire thing has the unintended drama of Dawson's Creek. Or The Hills.
Pick your poison.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Well, this is what i was hoping the OP was going to say. So SWTOR is a step forward in the story department,okay,what if GW2 comes out before SWTOR which it looks likely that it will,it will be HW2 that's a step forward in the story department and fully voiced.
Now, other than those two thing, swtor really is more of the same from what we know up to now, could that change perhaps but as long as GW2 comes out before swtor it will not be a step forward in anything.
I really think some of the comments coming from the BioWAre dev are pathetic and will lead to embarrassment of what is a decent dev company.
Apparently all the mmorpg we have played up to now have been pointless and no fun,hmm i seriously need to see some one about all the pointless hours i spent in EQ1/UO/DAOC/SWG/EQ2/GW1 because apparently they were all pointless, so says BioWare who have never made a mmorpg.
Ermmm
Furious Fighters
http://www.biblebelievers.org.au/13trindx.htm
Yeah... Hope or hype.. whatever
All i am saying is if EA proves that 150mil = Succesful MMO we're screwd for another dacade of clones.
I do wonder tho... What is the budget for GW2? Anyone? :P
I've been uplinked and downloaded, I've been inputted and outsourced. I know the upside of downsizing, I know the downside of upgrading.
I'm a high-tech low-life. A cutting-edge, state-of-the-art, bi-coastal multi-tasker, and I can give you a gigabyte in a nanosecond.
I'm new-wave, but I'm old-school; and my inner child is outward-bound.
I'm a hot-wired, heat-seeking, warm-hearted cool customer; voice-activated and bio-degradable.
RIP George Carlin.
Cause NCsoft never overhyped that sh it for a game Aion ....
One's over-hype is another one's mark of confidence. I'm split. I want to believe that this wont be another mmorpg that I complete in 4 months because there is either no more content or the continuation of the existing content is a mirror image of the previous content within a static and linear npc-centric environment.
A successful themepark, pve-centric mmorpg today (based on studio and publisher acceptance and ability over the last 5-years) is one that garners 200k-300k subscribership over an extended period; not an insurmountable benchmark since not one mmo over the last 5 years has been able to surpass that; other than Aion with their progressively open pvpve model.
Polls, especially ones this limited are just so inherently flawed lol.
1. I believe and have faith in BioWare. They have yet to let me down and do not see them doing so anytime soon.
2. I have 0 faith in Lucas Arts. With that said they give a great deal of latitude when it comes to the expanded universe as long as it does not infringe on Lucas' baby. I think that BioWare may actually be one of the first to have influenced Lucas in having bits of their stories become fully accepted into Star Wars Canon; primarily centering around characters and events portrayed in the first Knights of the Old Republic.
3. EA, well this is a tough one. I am old enough to remember when EA was Electronic Artists. They were a publisher that did just that, packaged and shipped great games made by small developers. Companies like Origin Studios, Westwood and Maxis no longer had to ship games to tiny mom and pop computer shops in zip lock baggies with photocopied instruction booklets. Then EA changed, they no longer wanted to share the profits of their publishing and started swallowing and changing those studios; Ultima 9 is a prime example of the evil EA's involvement in products. The original EA is something that current head honcho has stressed as being their target, to allow these developers to make the games that they are best at and to keep out of micromanaging those studios. I do not think that Warhammer Onlines failures are due to EA, in fact having been in the beta both before and after EA's partnering with Mythic Entertainment I think EA may have actually given Mythic the tools to succeed which they promptly squandered on Paul's sunglasses (I kid about the sunglass part lol).
now, as to some of the claims.... the developers at bioware working on TOR were mostly long gone before the NGE ever came about. Those devs had packed up around the launch of JTL and the promotion of Raph Koster which took him out of direct management of SWG. The two primary devs from the NGE were junior devs working with SOE not Verant Interactive when SWG shipped and are not working on BioWare's title, in fact one of them is currently deceased. The main trigger guy was Smedley and I do not think he could get a job outside of SOE primarily because of hte decisions made concerning SWG. Epecially with his claims that it was fully tested with focus groups made up of the player base (2005) and then in 2007 stated how they failed because they did not listen to the playerbase at all and did what they wanted, not what the players wanted. Julio Torres, yes.... he's a putz, always has been a putz lol. But as I mentioned in number 2 above, this is not working directly within the timeline that Lucas has clamped down on. Now the two devs/producers you singled out: Gordon Walton was a member of the mass effect team which, unless I am mistaken was already under development well before the NGE was even worked on. Dallas Dickinson, probably the only one from the NGE time frame was, if I remember right, one of the developers whom like Green Marine did not agree with the NGE and had quit in disgust with what was dropped on top of him. I know for a fact he worked on trials of obi-wan and as a beta tester for that product there was NO evidence whatsoever of the coming NGE. There were very specific loot drops and that cubey thing that gave rewards specifically designed to boost skill sets that the NGE did away with. So apart from Julio I think your claims are completely fabricated and come from nothing more than an attempt to try and link bioware's title to the failure that was SWG.
I do think that TOR will be a BioWare game and will surprise many and drive some far away. I personally have enjoyed everything BioWare has had a hand in, even MDK2, so I do not see why this would be any different.
http://www.speedtest.net/result/7300033012