[quote]there is nothing simple about tactics in WoW - they are as simple as you make them. If you are not bright, you wont see much in a fight, if you are resourcefull, you can have a LOT of ways to fight. Each duel or PvP encounter polishes my general tactics, but they do not always work. Sometimes i have to improvise, develop new tactics to take out specific race, class or just a specific person! Ive played almost all popular MMORPGs, and WoW so far has the most developed and deep combat I ever seen. Playing a orgue i find my options TOO many - too many tactics and strategies to choose from. If you claim there is no or little tactics or combat in WoW then you either have not developed your character far enough, or simply are not satisfied with the number of skills/tactics at your disposal. In the last case, tough luck, cuase no other MMORPG as far as I know can provide the number of skills/spells/tactics as WoW.[/b][/quote]
When I was a priest, I used 3 spells: POW: Shield, Flash Heal, and POW: Fortitude. Oh and Smite. That's it.
When I was a shaman, I used 3 spells: Searing Totem, Rockbiter Weapon, and Earth Shock. I used Greater Heal when I was in groups. Apart from that, nothing else. The other totems are pretty useless (Healing Stream Totem? Stoneskin Totem? Strength Totem? Absolutely useless) and Earth Shock was the only decent spell for the MP, Frost Shock took too much MP and that Fireball one was useless for the immolation damage.
On the other hand, in EQ2 I'm finding myself casting tons of spells on my party. Sure, some are pretty useless, like the lower-level healing spells, but you get a new spell every level (and some in-between levels). In WoW, you get maybe one new spell every 4 levels or so, the rest are just upgrades. And let's not even get into the Heroic Opportunity stuff, it saved my party on more than one occasion (massive group healing).
P.S. Sorry if the spell names are wrong, I can't remember them exactly.
This is so typical for EQ-players (original poster). They completely lack the ability to see any kind of dynamics of the PvP system. They're just walking around with those blinkers refusing to see that there is a also a right and left.
There are a few concerns that I agree with but some arguments are just way out of line.
We are all waiting for the PvP system to come out and when it does, the game will have meaning after lvl 60. The Hero system looks kind of interesting as well, but that is simply to raise the level cap a bit and will have few long term effects if I could take a wild guess. When the PvP system is out, added a few statistical features this game will appeal not only to occasional weekend players or hardened PvE-players (Old EQ players that just have grinded to an evolutionary halt in terms of online gaming), but it will also draw crowds from the ranks of hard core gamers. I don't know if they will succeed with this, but if the features will come soon and are working as intended, I am sure that the odds will be on Blizzards side.
PvP cannot sustain a game. Yes it might be fun but eventually PvP will just turn into mob killing. Unless Blizzard can stick in some good, solid high-end content, people will eventually get bored, and fast.
Adding in a stats system won't help much either. Who really cares if you got 300 kills and only died 20 times? They need to make PvP give you some sort of material benefit rather than just +1 on a counter. What would be good is to have 'points' that you can accumulate to buy better equip for your character.
Battlegrounds might be fun for a while but eventually people will just get tired of the tug of war. I played Shattered Galaxies and it was really fun at first but I got really bored after we would capture a zone just to see it recaptured a few minutes later. I would log on in the middle of the day and see that our side is totally winning and then log in at night and we're losing badly. There's hardly a point to go and capture something if it doesn't provide some sort of benefit.
P.S. I have not played EQLive and only recently started playing EQ2. I have not played any SOE game before EQ2. My previous MMORPG of choice was EVE Online.
Some good points in this thread. Makes a change to get intelligent discussion.
In my opinion it doesn't matter which points are good or bad as long as things you want personally from a game are there. For me it's questing and RP that matter, and the depth of the landscapes and cultures. I real feel in Wow that the dwarfs and humans in particular have a well developed culture with fantastic cities and lands, it's a believable environment to play in. The quest system is superb and prevents grinding through the levels like in other games, and also encourages rather than forcing grouping.
I agree about pvp and tactics, but for me that's not a big deal. If i want to play an RTS i'll play Rome:Total War. If i want pvp i'll play CS or Doom multiplayer. What i want from an mmorpg is depth, questing and a believeable world. wow has that in spades.
When I was a priest, I used 3 spells: POW: Shield, Flash Heal, and POW: Fortitude. Oh and Smite. That's it. When I was a shaman, I used 3 spells: Searing Totem, Rockbiter Weapon, and Earth Shock. I used Greater Heal when I was in groups. Apart from that, nothing else. The other totems are pretty useless (Healing Stream Totem? Stoneskin Totem? Strength Totem? Absolutely useless) and Earth Shock was the only decent spell for the MP, Frost Shock took too much MP and that Fireball one was useless for the immolation damage.
Then you were a poor player which is so like many who play this game... If you only used 3 or 4 skills then I will hazard a guess and say you didnt last very long.. Using only a few skills might get you out of the nooby lands but try that in higher lvl zones and instances..I wont even mention PVP since Im sure you got your butt kicked all over the screen...While healing stream (just for example) might seem like crap to you at your low its hardly useless for the shaman who has his talent points spent in the right area to get the full affect...I wont even talk about priest since im sure you were a poor one of those as well..
------------------------------ You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Originally posted by Ranma13 [quote]there is nothing simple about tactics in WoW - they are as simple as you make them. If you are not bright, you wont see much in a fight, if you are resourcefull, you can have a LOT of ways to fight. Each duel or PvP encounter polishes my general tactics, but they do not always work. Sometimes i have to improvise, develop new tactics to take out specific race, class or just a specific person! Ive played almost all popular MMORPGs, and WoW so far has the most developed and deep combat I ever seen. Playing a orgue i find my options TOO many - too many tactics and strategies to choose from. If you claim there is no or little tactics or combat in WoW then you either have not developed your character far enough, or simply are not satisfied with the number of skills/tactics at your disposal. In the last case, tough luck, cuase no other MMORPG as far as I know can provide the number of skills/spells/tactics as WoW.[/b][/quote] When I was a priest, I used 3 spells: POW: Shield, Flash Heal, and POW: Fortitude. Oh and Smite. That's it. When I was a shaman, I used 3 spells: Searing Totem, Rockbiter Weapon, and Earth Shock. I used Greater Heal when I was in groups. Apart from that, nothing else. The other totems are pretty useless (Healing Stream Totem? Stoneskin Totem? Strength Totem? Absolutely useless) and Earth Shock was the only decent spell for the MP, Frost Shock took too much MP and that Fireball one was useless for the immolation damage. On the other hand, in EQ2 I'm finding myself casting tons of spells on my party. Sure, some are pretty useless, like the lower-level healing spells, but you get a new spell every level (and some in-between levels). In WoW, you get maybe one new spell every 4 levels or so, the rest are just upgrades. And let's not even get into the Heroic Opportunity stuff, it saved my party on more than one occasion (massive group healing). P.S. Sorry if the spell names are wrong, I can't remember them exactly.
Sorry but you never played a shaman. (not a priest either)
And if most of spells are upgrades you do get new spells all the time. And they are most upgrades because by level 20 you already got 2 bars of spells (most classes - 3 for warlock), which means game gives you all the abilities you need early on. Its not like some other games that you have to play for months to get a feeling for the class. Notice I never mentioned talents, classes also get new abilities from talents (specialization).
I never use your searing totem, I find my DPS is good enough so I dont think the mana spent is worth while (BTW I never use totems when fighting single mobs). When multiples though, stoneclaw to distract adds while you kill the one you fighting, stoneskin anytime more than one mod is hitting you. Stoneskin if you are in a group for the dmg absorption will help all members of party. Frost Shock to slow runners this is only PvE !!! Greater heal is too slow casting. Earthbind totem to escape fights... i can keep on going if you like.
If you go PvP then it becomes a much more complicated game, where you need to use your shocks according to what spells you "think" the opponent is about to use.
Not much experienced on priest only took one to lvl18 but they eventually get amazing abilities like MIND CONTROL(by lvl40ish i think). By lvl14 Priests get insta cast fear that can fear 2 mobs. Which means you can even fear kite as a priest, again this is only PvE for in PvP tactics is all. with talents a shadow priest will get many PvP centered abilities like silence.
What game are you talking bout ? Certainly not WoW.
Originally posted by Ranma13 PvP cannot sustain a game. Yes it might be fun but eventually PvP will just turn into mob killing. Unless Blizzard can stick in some good, solid high-end content, people will eventually get bored, and fast. Adding in a stats system won't help much either. Who really cares if you got 300 kills and only died 20 times? They need to make PvP give you some sort of material benefit rather than just +1 on a counter. What would be good is to have 'points' that you can accumulate to buy better equip for your character. Battlegrounds might be fun for a while but eventually people will just get tired of the tug of war. I played Shattered Galaxies and it was really fun at first but I got really bored after we would capture a zone just to see it recaptured a few minutes later. I would log on in the middle of the day and see that our side is totally winning and then log in at night and we're losing badly. There's hardly a point to go and capture something if it doesn't provide some sort of benefit. P.S. I have not played EQLive and only recently started playing EQ2. I have not played any SOE game before EQ2. My previous MMORPG of choice was EVE Online.
Funny most ppl say PvE alone cannot sustain a game, PvP can. You prob never played DAoC did you ? RVR which is what Blizzard will try and implement with the battleground was the most fun I ever had on a MMORPG. This is NOT player killing player mindlessly, its about attacking keeps that the other side is trying to protect, huge battles for resources and power. Its difficult to explain for you need to experience yourself.
And I was EQ player and think EQ was a good game and one of the reasons Im with WoW is because WoW has the good PvE things I liked in EQ Freedom to do anything, help anybody interact all the time and some very soloable classes yes EQ had those too)
I have always maintained that, in order to balance a game correctly if such balance is required after release, the classes in question must be fixed, and all their potential skills WORKING FIRST, or the balance is moot because the developement team will have to do it again.
This is a real issue, because players first-off do NOT like their characters messed with in the negative direction. This holds true for any game, but in one in which competition between players is supposed to be the central point of the end-game, it can be a disastrous decision on their part if they are not extremely careful.
In World of Warcraft, it seems to me that the development team HAS been negatively balancing certain classes, as well as the game play in general, without there even being an end-game in existence.
What this suggests is that they are balancing (negative) rather than fixing (positive) with no end-game in mind, and therefore this is a failure of priorities.
People are going to get their cackles up again for this last sentence, so it needs explaining. The Blizzard Team has been systematically removing content for nearly 4 months now straight. Further, they are systematically removing skills from the individual classes in the name of balance, another negative. Yet, there are many bugs in each of these classes which should be corrected, yet are not because they would positively boost the power-level of the class.
I think most of us here have enough experience with MMO design to understand that this type of negative-development always results in a badly unbalanced game in the end, where broken skills are more prevalent than working ones.
POSITIVE development does not include removing entire professions, such as fishing, for everybody - just to temporarily resolve an issue with Farming. This example is a very good one. What has been done here will not be reversed, because that would take time, and is not perceived by the team as critical to the game play.
What they fail to see is that...everything is critical to the game play. You may, as a developer, remove minor content, and few people care or notice. However, when you start doing this as a HABIT, where each WEEK minor content is removed, sometimes major and noticable content, then you end up with a customer base that simply....has nothing to look forward to.
The real issues with World of Warcraft, though, reside almost entirely within the realm of Network Stability, Database Issues, Community Management, and Management in general, in the sense that they are simply not adequately providing appropriate priorities.
The game is great! At least, it was. It's now somewhat less than great because of the negative post-release development. As it stands alone, it's still a good game, probably the best ever! But, given the tremendous failures of the IT team in Networking Issues, and the Database failures, the game is in general...unplayable, and unreliable.
Once these are fixed, and they get their heads bolted on straight, it will return to being the greatest MMO of all time. For their sake, I'd recommend they do so...before the next MMO arrives.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by ajaxx Please, if you think pvp doesn't take any skill when the matchups are even it's probably because your losing. It's not Street Fighter 2 but I think it's fairly apparent that the better players win in even matchups.
Now, I'd like to touch on this point.
I am a winner. More often than not, in any game, I am quite capable of handling myself.
The issue here isn't who beats whom, or which class is overpowered, or whatnot.
The real issue here is that...there is little to no tactical thinking involved, less-so than even Star Wars Galaxies. This is simply a cookie-cutter combat system, with little more than keyboard mashing as the center-philosophy behind it.
If it weren't for the tremendous quest system, this would not be a fun game to play at all.
In PvP, fun derives from two things -
1 - Content is found in the classes themselves.
A good example of SWG failure was the Pistol Whip. Didn't matter the range, you just stood there and hit the macro which set off 2 dozen Pistol Whips, knocking the player to the ground. You could do this from 15 meters away if you wanted.
This is not content, this is very poor implementation of a skill, which in and of itself created a tremendous imbalance of professions.
2 - Fun is found in Freedom of Action, and Tactics.
The ability to exploit the terrain and the situation to gain an edge - is one of the main selling points of a good PvP system. Ironically, the best to-date to have this type of system was Everquest. However, they never pursued it to its proper end.
Freedom of action means using your balanced skills in conjunction with that environment to achieve a victory. Once again, this is where Everquest has beaten everyone to-date. It is surely the ONLY good thing Everquest really has to offer, but it is an important point that has been missed by every single developer since.
An example of poor implementation in World of Warcraft is what has commonly been referred to as the 'Roof Exploit'.
Now, seemingly Blizzard is not interested in freedom of action, but rather herding people into a box, ala offline RPGs. It's not what you CAN use to your advantage, in my opinion the central point of a good online PvP game, but what you are NOT ALLOWED TO DO that interests them.
Rather than stopping people from getting on a Roof, they should make it easier. Perhaps even add skills to that end, which would include climbing mountainous terrain previously inaccessible to the player.
Right now, unless you've been up it, there is no way for a player to even judge whether they are allowed up the terrain, and this is a major problem in the game play even in PvE.
Fun = options.
It always will, or after a very short period of time, players simply get bored with it.
Blizzard is too much interested in limiting the players' game play, rather than enhancing it, and this is a major issue in my opinion.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Originally posted by ajaxx Please, if you think pvp doesn't take any skill when the matchups are even it's probably because your losing. It's not Street Fighter 2 but I think it's fairly apparent that the better players win in even matchups.
Now, I'd like to touch on this point.
I am a winner. More often than not, in any game, I am quite capable of handling myself.
The issue here isn't who beats whom, or which class is overpowered, or whatnot.
The real issue here is that...there is little to no tactical thinking involved, less-so than even Star Wars Galaxies. This is simply a cookie-cutter combat system, with little more than keyboard mashing as the center-philosophy behind it.
If it weren't for the tremendous quest system, this would not be a fun game to play at all.
In PvP, fun derives from two things -
1 - Content is found in the classes themselves.
A good example of SWG failure was the Pistol Whip. Didn't matter the range, you just stood there and hit the macro which set off 2 dozen Pistol Whips, knocking the player to the ground. You could do this from 15 meters away if you wanted.
This is not content, this is very poor implementation of a skill, which in and of itself created a tremendous imbalance of professions.
2 - Fun is found in Freedom of Action, and Tactics.
The ability to exploit the terrain and the situation to gain an edge - is one of the main selling points of a good PvP system. Ironically, the best to-date to have this type of system was Everquest. However, they never pursued it to its proper end.
Freedom of action means using your balanced skills in conjunction with that environment to achieve a victory. Once again, this is where Everquest has beaten everyone to-date. It is surely the ONLY good thing Everquest really has to offer, but it is an important point that has been missed by every single developer since.
An example of poor implementation in World of Warcraft is what has commonly been referred to as the 'Roof Exploit'.
Now, seemingly Blizzard is not interested in freedom of action, but rather herding people into a box, ala offline RPGs. It's not what you CAN use to your advantage, in my opinion the central point of a good online PvP game, but what you are NOT ALLOWED TO DO that interests them.
Rather than stopping people from getting on a Roof, they should make it easier. Perhaps even add skills to that end, which would include climbing mountainous terrain previously inaccessible to the player.
Right now, unless you've been up it, there is no way for a player to even judge whether they are allowed up the terrain, and this is a major problem in the game play even in PvE.
Fun = options.
It always will, or after a very short period of time, players simply get bored with it.
Blizzard is too much interested in limiting the players' game play, rather than enhancing it, and this is a major issue in my opinion.
I actually agree with you. EQ2 and WoW apparently dont allow as much freedom as previous games did. EQ did, DAoC had already removed kiting, guess they started the trend.
My guess is that it much EASIER to balance when the possibilities, the options are more limited. I mean how to balance kiting on PvP ? I know its tough, but the trade off is these games get worse and worse.
I already cancelled my WoW account.
And I believe WoW is the best MMORPG out the by a mile. (even considering the lack of patching and server problems)
How exactly Bliz is restricting roof killing? How was EQ better in exploiting terrain, not counting bugged one? In WoW you get tactical advantage if you position yourself on a hill, across a river etc.
I too agree that WoW is lighyears better than any other MMORPG I've tried. The art directions, the class design. the questing system . . .all quite brilliant.
Yet I too have cancelled my account. Why? Because the game is in too much of a state of flux right now. Classes and proffesions are being buffed and nerfed willy nilly it seems like. Many of the changes are quite oviously needed and others just seem idiotic. I'll give it a few months to calm down, and then maybe I'll fire up my account again. Besides that, there are still a ton of other games out I want to try (even though I'm sure to hate most of them .)
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.
Comments
[quote]there is nothing simple about tactics in WoW - they are as simple as you make them. If you are not bright, you wont see much in a fight, if you are resourcefull, you can have a LOT of ways to fight. Each duel or PvP encounter polishes my general tactics, but they do not always work. Sometimes i have to improvise, develop new tactics to take out specific race, class or just a specific person! Ive played almost all popular MMORPGs, and WoW so far has the most developed and deep combat I ever seen. Playing a orgue i find my options TOO many - too many tactics and strategies to choose from. If you claim there is no or little tactics or combat in WoW then you either have not developed your character far enough, or simply are not satisfied with the number of skills/tactics at your disposal. In the last case, tough luck, cuase no other MMORPG as far as I know can provide the number of skills/spells/tactics as WoW.[/b][/quote]
When I was a priest, I used 3 spells: POW: Shield, Flash Heal, and POW: Fortitude. Oh and Smite. That's it.
When I was a shaman, I used 3 spells: Searing Totem, Rockbiter Weapon, and Earth Shock. I used Greater Heal when I was in groups. Apart from that, nothing else. The other totems are pretty useless (Healing Stream Totem? Stoneskin Totem? Strength Totem? Absolutely useless) and Earth Shock was the only decent spell for the MP, Frost Shock took too much MP and that Fireball one was useless for the immolation damage.
On the other hand, in EQ2 I'm finding myself casting tons of spells on my party. Sure, some are pretty useless, like the lower-level healing spells, but you get a new spell every level (and some in-between levels). In WoW, you get maybe one new spell every 4 levels or so, the rest are just upgrades. And let's not even get into the Heroic Opportunity stuff, it saved my party on more than one occasion (massive group healing).
P.S. Sorry if the spell names are wrong, I can't remember them exactly.
I have to go off on a rant here.
This is so typical for EQ-players (original poster). They completely lack the ability to see any kind of dynamics of the PvP system. They're just walking around with those blinkers refusing to see that there is a also a right and left.
There are a few concerns that I agree with but some arguments are just way out of line.
We are all waiting for the PvP system to come out and when it does, the game will have meaning after lvl 60. The Hero system looks kind of interesting as well, but that is simply to raise the level cap a bit and will have few long term effects if I could take a wild guess. When the PvP system is out, added a few statistical features this game will appeal not only to occasional weekend players or hardened PvE-players (Old EQ players that just have grinded to an evolutionary halt in terms of online gaming), but it will also draw crowds from the ranks of hard core gamers. I don't know if they will succeed with this, but if the features will come soon and are working as intended, I am sure that the odds will be on Blizzards side.
PvP is all that is important.
PvP cannot sustain a game. Yes it might be fun but eventually PvP will just turn into mob killing. Unless Blizzard can stick in some good, solid high-end content, people will eventually get bored, and fast.
Adding in a stats system won't help much either. Who really cares if you got 300 kills and only died 20 times? They need to make PvP give you some sort of material benefit rather than just +1 on a counter. What would be good is to have 'points' that you can accumulate to buy better equip for your character.
Battlegrounds might be fun for a while but eventually people will just get tired of the tug of war. I played Shattered Galaxies and it was really fun at first but I got really bored after we would capture a zone just to see it recaptured a few minutes later. I would log on in the middle of the day and see that our side is totally winning and then log in at night and we're losing badly. There's hardly a point to go and capture something if it doesn't provide some sort of benefit.
P.S. I have not played EQLive and only recently started playing EQ2. I have not played any SOE game before EQ2. My previous MMORPG of choice was EVE Online.
Some good points in this thread. Makes a change to get intelligent discussion.
In my opinion it doesn't matter which points are good or bad as long as things you want personally from a game are there. For me it's questing and RP that matter, and the depth of the landscapes and cultures. I real feel in Wow that the dwarfs and humans in particular have a well developed culture with fantastic cities and lands, it's a believable environment to play in. The quest system is superb and prevents grinding through the levels like in other games, and also encourages rather than forcing grouping.
I agree about pvp and tactics, but for me that's not a big deal. If i want to play an RTS i'll play Rome:Total War. If i want pvp i'll play CS or Doom multiplayer. What i want from an mmorpg is depth, questing and a believeable world. wow has that in spades.
------------------------------
You see, every mammal on this planet instinctively develops a natural equilibrium with their surrounding environment, but you humans do not. You spread to an area, and you multiply, and you multiply, until every natural resource is consumed. The only way you can survive is to spread to another area. There is another organism on this planet that follows the same pattern. Do you know what it is? A virus. Human beings are a disease, a cancer of this planet.-Mr.Smith
Sorry but you never played a shaman. (not a priest either)
And if most of spells are upgrades you do get new spells all the time. And they are most upgrades because by level 20 you already got 2 bars of spells (most classes - 3 for warlock), which means game gives you all the abilities you need early on. Its not like some other games that you have to play for months to get a feeling for the class. Notice I never mentioned talents, classes also get new abilities from talents (specialization).
I never use your searing totem, I find my DPS is good enough so I dont think the mana spent is worth while (BTW I never use totems when fighting single mobs). When multiples though, stoneclaw to distract adds while you kill the one you fighting, stoneskin anytime more than one mod is hitting you. Stoneskin if you are in a group for the dmg absorption will help all members of party. Frost Shock to slow runners this is only PvE !!! Greater heal is too slow casting. Earthbind totem to escape fights... i can keep on going if you like.
If you go PvP then it becomes a much more complicated game, where you need to use your shocks according to what spells you "think" the opponent is about to use.
Not much experienced on priest only took one to lvl18 but they eventually get amazing abilities like MIND CONTROL(by lvl40ish i think). By lvl14 Priests get insta cast fear that can fear 2 mobs. Which means you can even fear kite as a priest, again this is only PvE for in PvP tactics is all. with talents a shadow priest will get many PvP centered abilities like silence.
What game are you talking bout ? Certainly not WoW.
Funny most ppl say PvE alone cannot sustain a game, PvP can. You prob never played DAoC did you ? RVR which is what Blizzard will try and implement with the battleground was the most fun I ever had on a MMORPG. This is NOT player killing player mindlessly, its about attacking keeps that the other side is trying to protect, huge battles for resources and power. Its difficult to explain for you need to experience yourself.
And I was EQ player and think EQ was a good game and one of the reasons Im with WoW is because WoW has the good PvE things I liked in EQ Freedom to do anything, help anybody interact all the time and some very soloable classes yes EQ had those too)
C) Takes over your life
I have always maintained that, in order to balance a game correctly if such balance is required after release, the classes in question must be fixed, and all their potential skills WORKING FIRST, or the balance is moot because the developement team will have to do it again.
This is a real issue, because players first-off do NOT like their characters messed with in the negative direction. This holds true for any game, but in one in which competition between players is supposed to be the central point of the end-game, it can be a disastrous decision on their part if they are not extremely careful.
In World of Warcraft, it seems to me that the development team HAS been negatively balancing certain classes, as well as the game play in general, without there even being an end-game in existence.
What this suggests is that they are balancing (negative) rather than fixing (positive) with no end-game in mind, and therefore this is a failure of priorities.
People are going to get their cackles up again for this last sentence, so it needs explaining. The Blizzard Team has been systematically removing content for nearly 4 months now straight. Further, they are systematically removing skills from the individual classes in the name of balance, another negative. Yet, there are many bugs in each of these classes which should be corrected, yet are not because they would positively boost the power-level of the class.
I think most of us here have enough experience with MMO design to understand that this type of negative-development always results in a badly unbalanced game in the end, where broken skills are more prevalent than working ones.
POSITIVE development does not include removing entire professions, such as fishing, for everybody - just to temporarily resolve an issue with Farming. This example is a very good one. What has been done here will not be reversed, because that would take time, and is not perceived by the team as critical to the game play.
What they fail to see is that...everything is critical to the game play. You may, as a developer, remove minor content, and few people care or notice. However, when you start doing this as a HABIT, where each WEEK minor content is removed, sometimes major and noticable content, then you end up with a customer base that simply....has nothing to look forward to.
The real issues with World of Warcraft, though, reside almost entirely within the realm of Network Stability, Database Issues, Community Management, and Management in general, in the sense that they are simply not adequately providing appropriate priorities.
The game is great! At least, it was. It's now somewhat less than great because of the negative post-release development. As it stands alone, it's still a good game, probably the best ever! But, given the tremendous failures of the IT team in Networking Issues, and the Database failures, the game is in general...unplayable, and unreliable.
Once these are fixed, and they get their heads bolted on straight, it will return to being the greatest MMO of all time. For their sake, I'd recommend they do so...before the next MMO arrives.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Now, I'd like to touch on this point.
I am a winner. More often than not, in any game, I am quite capable of handling myself.
The issue here isn't who beats whom, or which class is overpowered, or whatnot.
The real issue here is that...there is little to no tactical thinking involved, less-so than even Star Wars Galaxies. This is simply a cookie-cutter combat system, with little more than keyboard mashing as the center-philosophy behind it.
If it weren't for the tremendous quest system, this would not be a fun game to play at all.
In PvP, fun derives from two things -
1 - Content is found in the classes themselves.
A good example of SWG failure was the Pistol Whip. Didn't matter the range, you just stood there and hit the macro which set off 2 dozen Pistol Whips, knocking the player to the ground. You could do this from 15 meters away if you wanted.
This is not content, this is very poor implementation of a skill, which in and of itself created a tremendous imbalance of professions.
2 - Fun is found in Freedom of Action, and Tactics.
The ability to exploit the terrain and the situation to gain an edge - is one of the main selling points of a good PvP system. Ironically, the best to-date to have this type of system was Everquest. However, they never pursued it to its proper end.
Freedom of action means using your balanced skills in conjunction with that environment to achieve a victory. Once again, this is where Everquest has beaten everyone to-date. It is surely the ONLY good thing Everquest really has to offer, but it is an important point that has been missed by every single developer since.
An example of poor implementation in World of Warcraft is what has commonly been referred to as the 'Roof Exploit'.
Now, seemingly Blizzard is not interested in freedom of action, but rather herding people into a box, ala offline RPGs. It's not what you CAN use to your advantage, in my opinion the central point of a good online PvP game, but what you are NOT ALLOWED TO DO that interests them.
Rather than stopping people from getting on a Roof, they should make it easier. Perhaps even add skills to that end, which would include climbing mountainous terrain previously inaccessible to the player.
Right now, unless you've been up it, there is no way for a player to even judge whether they are allowed up the terrain, and this is a major problem in the game play even in PvE.
Fun = options.
It always will, or after a very short period of time, players simply get bored with it.
Blizzard is too much interested in limiting the players' game play, rather than enhancing it, and this is a major issue in my opinion.
__________________________
"For one who seeks what he cannot obtain suffers torture; one who has what is not desirable is cheated; and one who does not seek what is worth seeking is diseased." - Augustine of Hippo
Now, I'd like to touch on this point.
I am a winner. More often than not, in any game, I am quite capable of handling myself.
The issue here isn't who beats whom, or which class is overpowered, or whatnot.
The real issue here is that...there is little to no tactical thinking involved, less-so than even Star Wars Galaxies. This is simply a cookie-cutter combat system, with little more than keyboard mashing as the center-philosophy behind it.
If it weren't for the tremendous quest system, this would not be a fun game to play at all.
In PvP, fun derives from two things -
1 - Content is found in the classes themselves.
A good example of SWG failure was the Pistol Whip. Didn't matter the range, you just stood there and hit the macro which set off 2 dozen Pistol Whips, knocking the player to the ground. You could do this from 15 meters away if you wanted.
This is not content, this is very poor implementation of a skill, which in and of itself created a tremendous imbalance of professions.
2 - Fun is found in Freedom of Action, and Tactics.
The ability to exploit the terrain and the situation to gain an edge - is one of the main selling points of a good PvP system. Ironically, the best to-date to have this type of system was Everquest. However, they never pursued it to its proper end.
Freedom of action means using your balanced skills in conjunction with that environment to achieve a victory. Once again, this is where Everquest has beaten everyone to-date. It is surely the ONLY good thing Everquest really has to offer, but it is an important point that has been missed by every single developer since.
An example of poor implementation in World of Warcraft is what has commonly been referred to as the 'Roof Exploit'.
Now, seemingly Blizzard is not interested in freedom of action, but rather herding people into a box, ala offline RPGs. It's not what you CAN use to your advantage, in my opinion the central point of a good online PvP game, but what you are NOT ALLOWED TO DO that interests them.
Rather than stopping people from getting on a Roof, they should make it easier. Perhaps even add skills to that end, which would include climbing mountainous terrain previously inaccessible to the player.
Right now, unless you've been up it, there is no way for a player to even judge whether they are allowed up the terrain, and this is a major problem in the game play even in PvE.
Fun = options.
It always will, or after a very short period of time, players simply get bored with it.
Blizzard is too much interested in limiting the players' game play, rather than enhancing it, and this is a major issue in my opinion.
I actually agree with you. EQ2 and WoW apparently dont allow as much freedom as previous games did. EQ did, DAoC had already removed kiting, guess they started the trend.
My guess is that it much EASIER to balance when the possibilities, the options are more limited. I mean how to balance kiting on PvP ? I know its tough, but the trade off is these games get worse and worse.
I already cancelled my WoW account.
And I believe WoW is the best MMORPG out the by a mile. (even considering the lack of patching and server problems)
How exactly Bliz is restricting roof killing?
How was EQ better in exploiting terrain, not counting bugged one?
In WoW you get tactical advantage if you position yourself on a hill, across a river etc.
I am the type of player where I like to do everything and anything from time to time.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor - pre-WW2 genocide.
thats a long one!
to make it short - WoW is THE BEST MMORPG out there
http://www.bl4cksh33p.de
I too agree that WoW is lighyears better than any other MMORPG I've tried. The art directions, the class design. the questing system . . .all quite brilliant.
Yet I too have cancelled my account. Why? Because the game is in too much of a state of flux right now. Classes and proffesions are being buffed and nerfed willy nilly it seems like. Many of the changes are quite oviously needed and others just seem idiotic. I'll give it a few months to calm down, and then maybe I'll fire up my account again. Besides that, there are still a ton of other games out I want to try (even though I'm sure to hate most of them .
)
I don't want to write this, and you don't want to read it. But now it's too late for both of us.