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Lord of the Rings Online: Free to Play Interview
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Well there goes the neigborhood, Abner!
Seriously, this is horrible news.....
1) LOTRO has one of the nicest communties around. It's one of the main strengths of the game. I expect it's going to take a serious nose dive from this. While I certainly don't equate economic status with how nice a person is, it's a simple axiom that how much care a person treats something with is directly related to how much they have invested in it (whether that investment be cash or some other measure). If it costs you $300 for a coat, you are going to treat that coat alot differently then something you pick up at Walmart for $10.
Alot of the new people that a F2P model is likely to attract WILL treat the community like trash. They have no reason NOT to do so... they have absolutely nothing invested in thier accounts....and nothing to loose by trashing it. Heck, without even at least requiring credit card verification in order to create an account...even if you don't charge anything on it.... there is nothing to stop a person from making an infinite number of accounts for the express purpose of griefing if they wanted to do so.
2) There is little doubt in my mind that part of Turbines scheme is to push current monthly and lifetime subscribers (VIP's in newspeak) into spending money on Micro-Transactions on top of our current fee's. Sure, we get 500 points per month for free. Exactly what does 500 points get you? Dollars to doughnuts, Turbine will calculate it to be less then what a typical user would use in a month from thier subscription. The cynic in me also tells me that Turbine will grandualy shift the game balance so most people will have to spend more then 500 points a month to get the same amount of gameplay they do now. I also have a sinking feeling that when new "features" are added to the game, most of the important ones will cost points to get, rather then be part of the VIP benefits. Under the subscription model, all of this was included in the price....and we could enjoy as little or as much of it as we wanted while paying 1 fixed fee. End result under F2P we'll end up paying more for less....watch and see.
3) Development Focus. Under the P2P model, development is (theoreticaly) focused on adding new and fun content to the game and new systems to improve the game. The primary focus being to keep the game environment fresh and fun in order to retain subs. On the new model, I have no doubt that the lions share of development will now go to things that they can directly monetize in thier cash shop. They will put in as little development as they can possibly get away with for people paying monthlies as that has no direct and immediate influnce on thier revenue (i.e. short term profits).
4) Audience focus. The switch from P2P to F2P also indicates a shift in thier audience focus. Under the classic subscription model, monthly retention is the key factor for income. You focus your assets on retaining your long term player base and making sure they stay subbed month affter month. Your goal is customer loyatly. The F2P model is a very different dynamic. The focus here is tends to be on one thing.... VOLUME. The more people you shove through your doors, the more opportunity you have to sell them product. While it's a nice bonus if those customers stick around and continue to buy in future....customer loyalty is far less important under this model. Get familiar with the term... CHURN. You can bet the Turbine exec's behind this move already are.
What we're seeing is the difference between eating out at a fancy resteraunt and eating at a fast-food joing. We've just been handed a turd happy meal and they are trying to tell us it's the same as the surf n' turf we're used to getting. Sorry, there is no other way to view this. Turbine management has been going downhill for a couple years now....this just confirms how far they've sunk.
Oh well...just happy that I've been into turn-based strategy wargames then MMO's these days. That's still a market dominated by people who love games.
The Chicken Little syndrome that crops up from time to time on these boards is really downright nauseating sometimes.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
I'll bet all the little chickens are from Landroval too...
XD
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
You aren't reading what the game tells you then or you never die. The game encourages you to use the cash shop every time you exit an instanced dungeon before you complete it.
The Chicken Little syndrome that crops up from time to time on these boards is really downright nauseating sometimes.
Actually, I find the "battered gamer syndrome" far more nauseating. "Thank you Mr MMO company, may we have another?"
So? It doesn't force you to do anything. It simply provides an opportunity. Its your choice if you take it or not.
This went better than expected. Finally a company which actually gives lifers something back to us. And i agree with some people here, if they didn't make this change here in europe. Lotro woulda been dead, ddo as well. And judging by limited chat, areas, quest and all the other penalties F2P people will get. I do not see kids jumping in and ruining my day anytime soon.
You go turbine, you go girl!
Yeah, they're definitely one to just make you shake your head as well.
Although a lot of them are more humorous than anything because you can tell the majority of them usually just purchased the game or haven't made it to the problematic areas that other players are angered or debating over.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Kinda glad I canceled this a couple of months ago, seperates me some from the decision.
That being said, I'm not a real fan of the so called F2P models. I tolerate it on EQ2, but I did leave the game for over a year over it as well (where I went to LotRO...).
I prefer to know exactly how much I need to spend to enjoy the game how i want to enjoy it, whether I play 5 hours that week or 80.
I know, I know, F2P model is the way of the future. I for one, hope the future is rewritten and they get off of this mistake of a path before they destroy the entire genre.
Wow, EQ2 is f2p? Really? May actually give that game another go if this is true.
Is it or have I just been bamboozled?
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
see...i am not happy with the new model...but there is no other mmorpg i want to play atm so i am going to stick to this and see how it goes..
i like this game too much
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
I didn't say they forced you to do anything, neither did the poster who mentioned it in the first place. I was simply pointing out that they DO promote the item shop in game with what are effectively pop-up ads (even in several other instances in game as well), contrary to what the follow on posters were asserting.
No, this is why people shouldn't post on 4 hours of sleep
I meant to say...
I'm not a real fan of the so called F2P models and their cash shops. I tolerate the cash shop on EQ2, because they only offer fluff items on it, but I did leave the game for over a year over it as well.
Oh rats, I thought so but I don't follow that game much really so was hoping maybe I might have missed it. Thanks for clarifying.
I'm not either but outside of the level sigils in DDO (which they removed anyways so rather moot - although how in the hell anyone thought that was a good idea is beyond me) I don't mind how DDO was turned into f2p. If they're able to do something along those lines won't bother me in this game either.
So far the only things that I find to be a bit whacked is the gold limit seems too low in my opinion for f2p players and it really makes no sense to me that they won't allow players to use points acquired or purchasd for both games.
As for my overall opinion, I'm on the fence really at this point. I could see it being a boon for the game or being a disaster pending on how things are implemented.
1. For god's sake mmo gamers, enough with the analogies. They're unnecessary and your comparisons are terrible, dissimilar, and illogical.
2. To posters feeling the need to state how f2p really isn't f2p: Players understand the concept. You aren't privy to some secret the rest are missing. You're embarrassing yourself.
3. Yes, Cpt. Obvious, we're not industry experts. Now run along and let the big people use the forums for their purpose.
Great, Reading this thread it seems like a lot of retards are leaving the game because of this and lots of cool people are going to be starting!!!
Which is exactly what happened to DDO, I've got a list as long as your arm of people who refuse to play ddo anymore, each and everyone of them are the unpleaseant type of gamer, the one who solo's and multibox's everything, the one who claims to be the best.. and yet always mysteriously gets a lag spike at a crucial moment.
So great, LOTRO is going to get a new price structure, a new injection of players... and to top it off, due to their own stupidity the retarded gamers are leaving, meaning that lotro will once again have a nice community
Bring it on!
It occurs to me that while (presumably) no one in this thread is a Turbine employee and therefore has very little idea of what will actually happen to LOTRO once it is free to play, there is an awful lot of assumptions being flung about regarding it. While I am not myself any more knowledgeable on the details of what Turbine has planned, I guess I can comment on my experience in F2P MMO's and how that might relate to this situation.
First, let me say that I am like many folks here in that I am no fan of the "pay to win" systems that have often been used in F2P games. I have not played DDO for more than an hour since it went F2P, so I cannot comment on how its system is implemented; I leave that to someone with some actual knowledge. However, the information I have seen on the system (reviews and customer testimonials) suggest that Turbine has not made a "pay to win" shop, and I have no reason to doubt this. As far as the possibility that this might change in the future, all I can say is, "You might get hit by a bus and die in the future. That doesn't keep you from going outside and enjoying the sunlight each day, does it?"
With that in mind, I cannot see how any regular player could see a benefit from a shop that sells only convenience items, unless the convenience items are XP/rest state boosts. Food and "Health/Mana" pots are already available from crafting in-game, and any decent Kin has people willing to flood you with them for nothing but a thank you. The same is true of any number of resources, and services such as zone porting are relatively easy as well. So the only sellable item I can see being useful would be the aforementioned boosts, and they, to my mind, are pointless to someone wanting to play a perpetual world.
Using an XP boost in an MMO is like living 70 years in 10; why would you rush your way to the end of your life and miss out on the journey there? I know the current thinking that all the "good content" is at the end, but how can you appreciate that "good content" if you didn't earn it by doing all the "mediocre content"? My children complain that they want to grow up, but my adult friends all wish they could go back and enjoy their youth again. Maybe if more people took the time to enjoy the time spent leveling, They wouldn't burn out as fast and would stick around in an MMO for longer than 5 minutes.
I suppose my real concern with any F2P game isn't having to buy things, because I simply won't (I have kids, as I said, and their needs come before Turbine's, or mine), nor is it the notion of a game overwhelmed with children (mine annoy me from time to time, but overall I'm ok with youngsters enjoying a product targetted towards them, as most all video games are). What concerns me is the potential for other, less desirable elements getting into the system. A free client and account means there is essentially nothing stopping the multitudes of spammers, farmers, conpersons, and hackers from deluging the servers with garbage and headaches, both verbal and technical. I left WoW because my account was hacked and it took them what I felt was way too long to address it. What will happen when the LOTRO admins are over-run with complaints from long-standing users that the chat channels are unusable for all the gold spamming? How long will it take to get items back after an account hijacking when Turbine has 1/20 the staff that Blizzard has? And what, if anything, does Turbine have planned to help combat these issues before they even start?
I've read comments that suggest that F2P players won't have access to chat channels to harass other players, which only makes me wonder why they would play then. How would they communicate with others on the server? How would they get into a quest group and get through group content? Are they suggesting that all content would be soloable then? Wouldn't that, by definition, make LOTRO no longer an MMO, and instead a Massively Singleplayer Online Game?
As I said before, I am not privvy to Turbine's decision-making on this, so all I can say for certain I know is that I don't know. However, these are questions I would certainly like to see answered before I make up my mind on whether or not to continue playing.
Well, if you consider the typical F2P gamer a component of a "nice community" I wish you and they all the best...<face palm> ^^
I suspect it was some bean counter type who came up with this idea... Only time will tell how it works out. I played LOTRO up to level 39 or 40(guardian) its just not my type of game. But to each their own.
I think this might be intresting.
I got life with code-masters but never upgrade to Siege of Mirkwood, partly because it requires a credit card but partly because the game was getting very stale indeed. It had degenarated into endless grind for legendary items and radiance gear. As far as I am concerned, the game got to big. Shadows of Angmar was doable but Moria was just "no way am I going to do all those damn dungeons where mobs are randomly spaced everywhere with all my alts".
The game was a lot of fun till 50, then it became something else.
It could do with a reboot. As a lifer I don't think I have been shafted on the original price. Granted, Turbine/Codemasters REALLY need a major course on customer satisfaction. Most MMO companies give old timers small ingame presents. Turbine/Codemasters seems to think giving an ingame painting would cost them an arm and a leg. They must come from regions of the planet where things like Christmas customer relation gifts are unhead of.
But the game has been good fun and I played it long and often enough that I saved on subscription. Plus I can always pick it up if I feel the need. 500 points, well no idea how far those will stretch in practice, but in essense I am playing for free now. Granted, they could do better but I will just use this as a warning never ever to deal with these companies again. They don't know how to deal with their customers.
Maybe if it revives the game it allows them the resources to overhaul the game. 50 percent change it will be for the better. Anything that gets rid of the current "1/6 lfg, only item worth taking, taken so essentially I need 5 people to give me a free ride" attitude that the radiance gear has brought.
Be intresting to see how they handle the expansion packs. But to all those who want their money back... grow up. Games always get cheaper when they get older. When Id makes their old games/engines opensource do you demand your money back as well?
Just hope the shire can handle the F2P crowd. Poor hobbits.
This is enough to make me give the game a try again. I bought it when Mines of Moria came out, and only stuck with it a month. I am excited to give it another go!
The nerd rage is strong with this thread.
Personally I am glad LOTRO is going the way of DDO. The game very much needs new life/players in the game. As many players kept to themselves or stay within their own social circles. Grouping up was for the most part an impossible task. I know there was a huge thread on Turbine's LOTRO forum on the solo players and multiple threads on how hard it was to find groups. Hopefully the people that login are more group friendly.
As far as F2P games goes, what is so bad about them?
Also since when did F2P with mmo games meant that the whole game was free to access and play? I always thought access was free.
F2P? New players going to group? I sure hope so, and SOE take a look, or take another bullet to your player count. (Combine EQ1 servers and cancel Vantard is on the horizon)
With hate SOE, die!
Its obvious that LOTRO wasnt living up to the expectations of the suits or it would never have come to this. There is far more stability in monthly subs and if the game had millions of players, each paying a monthly fee, I doubt the F2P option would have even come up. Just my opinion of course.
While the success of this F2P model has been proven with DDO, what applies to one game doesnt apply to all of them. In a way, its a big gamble for Turbine and they could lose big if they dont get the same response that DDO received. Think NGE and SWG but instead of content, its on the monetary side of things.
When everything sorts itself out, F2P may be a great boon for this game. People who pay a standard sub will only notice that there are more players in game and everything else will be the same. My son plays DDO and for him the monthly sub game was the same, except for the huge population jump and amount of content that the devs were able to put in since the change. Besides, people who play this game and it is a high quality game may just decide to sub full time.
While I understand that people dont want change and are even afraid of it, I would wait and see what happens before I did anything to fight/protest it. The changes havent been made and yet people are condemning it right out of the gate, which makes their arguments pitiful since they have no experience with it. Its kind of sad that people are like this. Its amazing we ever made it out of the stoneage.
I dont play LOTRO because I didnt like the feel of the combat system as well as the forced grouping nature of the storyline. I doubt I will even try this game again unless that has changed. Even so, I would be surprised if many players didnt return and bring others with them If Turbine has the same success with LOTRO that they did with DDO, expect new servers. From what I understand, DDO is planning to open a new one soon. We will see.
What I also find interesting is that between DDO and LOTRO once again both high quality games what does this do for the other existing and future F2P games? Has the bar been raised in terms of quality content? Turbine may have just shook the F2P world and the fallout should be entertaining.
I for one am happy that I get to finally play this title. I don't pay monthly fees to play a game when I can get single player games or even some MMO's for free.
Now that said, I also have played DDO and tried to lead a guild there. The quality of the individual players went down drastically from my prior game. I was unable to hold a guild after three attempts.
A large part of the problem is that when you go to a door with a party and they all go in, you get a pop up message saying "you must pay to play this dungeon". And all my party is in there in that dungeon because they payed money to play a quest....
I think that's where most people will have a problem Mike. There's no point in playing an MMO if the community is in the dregs and we can't group. I'd rather go play a single player game with better storyline and quests. (general statement about MMO quests, no offense to LOTRO quests)
I for one am happy that I get to finally play this title. I don't pay monthly fees to play a game when I can get single player games or even some MMO's for free.
Now that said, I also have played DDO and tried to lead a guild there. The quality of the individual players went down drastically from my prior game. I was unable to hold a guild after three attempts.
A large part of the problem is that when you go to a door with a party and they all go in, you get a pop up message saying "you must pay to play this dungeon". And all my party is in there in that dungeon because they payed money to play a quest....
I think that's where most people will have a problem Mike. There's no point in playing an MMO if the community is in the dregs and we can't group. I'd rather go play a single player game with better storyline and quests. (general statement about MMO quests, no offense to LOTRO quests)