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Rebuttal to Argument: I like cash shops because my time is money!
qombi
Member UncommonPosts: 1,170
This argument has always sounded silly to me. Games are purchased to be played as entertainment. They are not like your mother making you eat vegetables. You are not forced to buy them. I don't care how much time you think you are saving by buying pixels. Why do it in the first place? Think of all the time you would save by not even buying the game, then you wouldn't have pay someone else so you don't have to play it.
If you are so concerned about how much your time is worth, why did you buy the game if you knew this? Games are a waste of time, they are a form of entertainment. You should also start buying movies and only watching the last 10 minutes to "save" your precious time. You should pay for cable TV and not watch it to "save" your precious time. Maybe you can find a service that you can pay money for to have people give you a brief summary of what the movie or show was about.
That seems like something these guys would argue for. Who has time to waste on actually watching the movies or shows when someone can summarize if for a fee? It would make too much sense to maybe not buy the movies, cable TV, or games you do not have time to watch or play, or perhaps purchase games that are designed for a person with your precious time constraints that you don't have to buy your way out of having to actually play it.
Have you ever though of that? Have you ever thought that when you buy from these shops to make up for these time constraints you have you only encourage these type of long hour games to continue? Instead of fixing these perceived time issues in these games, you are telling these companies "Hey! I like that these games take longer than I have time to play, I would actually pay you more to skip some of it! Just think about that for a moment before you respond. If enough people are really concerned with how long these games take to accomplish things in or how long it takes to "grind", then don't buy them.
If these games do not sell, I promise they will stop being produced. You don't have to pay extra for items in a shop to make up for a game's short falls.
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Comments
If, as you say, games are entertainment, wth do you care how we enjoy them?
People find entertainment in different forms.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
The thing is you are not enjoying the games. You are paying for the game, expansions, monthly fee if any, and then paying extra to skip the game. Apparently you didn't have time to read the whole post or you would realize this post was meant to show if you didn't buy into this, you would get the games you want without these grinds and time constraints you want to buy your way through.
Keep buying in that cash shop, you are only hurting yourself.
Again, if I'm enjoying the game my way, who the hell are you to tell me I'm not doing it right?
Part of the game is fun. Part of it isn't. If someone wants to pay in order to skip the un-fun portions, so they can spend more time doing the fun portions, how is that hurting you?
Don't you see? You're only allowed to enjoy a game in the exact same way that he is. He clearly states that you are not enjoying the game, so it must be true!
Ooh, I get it now. Geez, like living with my father all over again. "That's not how you swing a bat numbnuts!" :P
And what about the P2P's that deliberately stretch their grind out so you'll subscribe for another month?
Honestly, this "rebuttal" applies just as much to some P2P games as it does to some cash-shop games. The difference is that paying $15/month in the cash-shop game can get you a reduced grind so you can spend more time playing the more enjoyable parts, whereas your $15/month for some P2P's still leaves you at square one against the grind.
But yes, as always, nothing changes until we speak with our wallets.
A Modest Proposal for MMORPGs:
That the means of progression would not be mutually exclusive from the means of enjoyment.
Did I say it was hurting me? My post was a point of view, I described above how it is hurting the person do this. Why not stop supporting these games that you find parts to be unfun and play something that you enjoy all of the game? If you support these games they will take this as a sign this is what the customer wants.
This is a forum after all isn't it where we discuss things. How is your post an argument for cash shops? Your post is more of just a "Hey leave us alone post, we will do what we want!" or a "Don't tell them this, it may open some eyes! We want them to keep buying!". Convince me I am wrong. I have had people convince me I am wrong in the past, doesn't hurt my feelings.
Explain to me why someone purchasing out of a cash shop to skip some of the game is better than not supporting a game they do not like parts of so that a trend to make games they do want without having to purchase out of shop is better.
^^^ THIS
You dont need to find every single aspect and every single second spent in the game to be fun or enjoyable to like the game overall. And your argument about skipping to the last 10 minutes of the movie are ridiculous. There is no point to a movie other than to get the story, where in a game there are dozens of other things to do besides paying attention to the story (most of which you dont need to know a single thing about the story to do), especially when the story isnt that good or you just dont care for story. If all i cared about was a story, i would go watch a movie or read a book. Im here to play the game and have fun, so if i dont want to waste hours and hours doing something that i dont feel is worth my time, and can pay a measly few bucks to get past it, then yeah ill take that route rather than putting myself through doing something i dont want to do.
You are exactly right it would apply to what you said as well. I agree, if you don't like how long a p2p game takes as well definitely quit it. I do not support games I do not enjoy. I definitely will not pay extra in an item shop to skip a game I do not have time to play or want to play parts of.
Well, the whole vote with your wallet thing counts doesn't it? I didn't think WoW was fun anymore, I stopped paying my sub. I didn't enjoy RoM, didn't spend money on its cash shop. I like DDO. Its a nice casual game. Can't play it for more then a week or so before i get bored, but it's fun enough during that week that I don't mind tossing Turbine 5-10 bucks. The grinding of the same content in DDO, over and over and over again to earn enough of the currency to buy things in the shop? Not fun. Playing through the content once or twice is fun to me though, and for that fun, I don't mind paying a little.
Lotro is a game I used to enjoy. I didn't care for the LI grind and various other changes, but I'll definitely reinstall it when it goes hybrid and try it out. Will I invest money in it? Probably. If I'm having fun. If not, I won't. Its very simple for me.
Definitely if you find something unfun, I encourage people quit before lessening their "unfun" by paying extra in some item shop. You send the wrong signals by doing this. You tell the company that instead of fixing the unfun parts, you are okay with paying extra to skip them.
Not playing anymore tells them that they must fix these issues if they want your money. If enough people feel the same as you then the current trends will change.
Now Lotro, I am okay with a game being free to play (limited access) and you pay to access all content. That is an okay payment model in my eyes. What I do not agree with is the item shop, if it is taking too long to level a person should quit not buy potions. How is anything going to be fixed correctly in these games if people buy past issues?
This only encourages more bad features to encourage players to purchase past them. It does not encourage correcting the issues in the first place. Why should a company fix that boring grind when you are buying digital items to fix it?
Everything is relative, for some people, spending 50, or even 100 bucks is nothing (not my case btw); so your concern about them is pretty much useless. I have seen people paying just for fluffy things and they are happy, maybe you think they are unhappy because you are assuming they are in the situation where they are desperate but it can be actually the opposite.
I don't see the difference in being frustrated because somebody is time constrained or money constrained, in both cases the person feels that something out his control prevents them from arriving to his goal.
bah write my message and argument changes before my eyes lol disregard what i said if u read it ^_^
They shouldn't. That grind is there to help them make a profit. If a game doesn't make a profit, it doesn't stick around. I dunno, maybe I'm the one who gets it and you're the one who doesn't.
Feel free to do that on your own if you want, but youre making a huge mistake of assuming everyone reacts to things the same way as you or views things the same way. For me, i dont feel the need to sacrifice/give up my fun that im having by quitting a game in order for me to demand they fix the few parts i dont like. There is no such thing as a perfect game that makes 00% of the players happy 100% of the time, some people find ceryain things fun, others find them boring.
BTW since you used a movie reference in the OP... would you get up and walk out on a 2 hour long movie you paid to watch just because you ran into a 5 minute section of it that you didnt enjoy? I doubt that, most people wouldnt, because most dont need something to be absolutely perfect at all times in order to enjoy it.
the facts seem to be clear. these companies are in this for a profit.. no one is argueing against that, no one has a problem with that. but that is the inherent problem with F2P games, they need to make a profit. no profit, no expansions or patches. to do this they need to either program ways to "encourage" u to spend money in their shops, or sell advertisments in game. if they end up "nerfing" our XP gains or "tightening up" drops, then i think it becomes more of a blackmail scenario, and i dont want pop ups in any game i'm trying to play... i would rather pay the monthly fee, so i can demand content quality and good service from the company and not hear them complain they can't deliver those because of bottom line issues
I see you have no arguments so you result to fear tactics or lies. You still have failed to tell me how buying items from a shop to skip unfun parts of the game (as many people here described not me) is better than the company fixing the unfun parts.
If you purchase items from an item shop to avoid playing the "unfun" parts of these mmos, then you are yourself telling the corporations that it is okay to make unfun parts of a game and charge me more money to skip them. If leave games you find are unfun, then corporations either go bankrupt because their product isn't a fun game or they correct the unfun parts of the game.
I only pointed out buying the items to pass up the unfun parts is only hurting yourself. You are saying "I like to play games that I find parts of boring, I will buy my way through these parts with my wallet" I don't know about you but I would rather have a game I enjoyed playing through. When I was a kid when you played a nintendo game and found that you hit a part of the game that was designed unfun, you didn't play any longer and didn't tell you friends how great the game was.
You know, Oblivion had that horse pack and a few other things that were so small that 3$ should not have covered the cost, but I don't remember anyone complaining really. So, the fact is that even offline games have done this stuff before, but people only bitch when it's an online game, and presumably because there would be someone there to listen to it.
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i think a better model would be to let people play to level 11 free. why 11? because when do these games generally get fun? level 10, the first real milestone in these games. level 11 gives them a chance to get a feel for where the game is going, and get excited to play further... get em hooked and get em playing..
My main point is the f2p model with a cash shop leads to temptation to produce games that are required to be unfun so that you WILL buy items to pass bad game design. Do we really want to encourage this behaviour? Would we rather not have game developers have sub fees only or other models to where if a game is designed badly they have to fix it to keep you playing instead of purposely designing poor gameplay? Something to think about.
Besides that you can't buy gameplay. Either you play a game or you don't.
Oh people did complain about that. I know I would never purchase the horse pack.